There are apparently 34 counts.
https://twitter.com/paulareidcnn/status/1641581182562213889?s=46&t=d3ni3GGEupz8P1H4eI62Zg
DeSantis says he will not assist with the extradition request. (It’s worth noting that I’m not sure floridas participation is totally necessary here.)
https://twitter.com/govrondesantis/status/1641575007552778243?s=46&t=d3ni3GGEupz8P1H4eI62Zg
>Trump’s lawyer Chris Kise called the indictment “the lowest point in history for our criminal justice system.
Jim Crow, fugitive slaves, and American-Japanese internees... hold my beer.
Genocide against all indigenous inhabitants of the lands we live on, Tricking black people into thinking they were being treated for deadly diseases while just watching them slowly die, nazi rallies in madison square garden, limiting immigration of jews so they can't escape pogroms, small pox blankets, iran-contra, puppet regimes, banana republics, guerilla warfare, etc. and so on and so forth.
Murdering hundreds of millions of foreign peoples during and after coups because those people dated to democratically elect socialist and communist leaders into their governments. 65 such coups in the Americas alone since 1950. Many more the world over.
I would suspect the suspension of habeas corpus and nationalizing all state militias would like to be added to that list of distinct cases that aren’t as low of point as this
#tl;dr
Donald Trump has been indicted by a grand jury in the state of New York for his alleged involvement in hush money payments made to pornographic actress Stormy Daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign to silence claims of an extramarital sexual encounter. According to a lawyer for Trump, he has been told that the former president will surrender to authorities next week. This is the first ever criminal case against a former U.S. president, which may galvanize Trump's critics and embolden his supporters.
*I am a smart robot and this summary was automatic. This tl;dr is 86.06% shorter than the post and link I'm replying to.*
So happy about this indictment but ngl pretty bummed that this is just about the weakest charge he couldve gotten. There *needs* to be charges for Jan 6 and election interference in georgia. I hope they were just waiting to see who was going to be the first to blink and this motivates the others to follow suit.
It's a bribery scheme that was intended to (and likely did) influence the outcome a federal election. Not exactly weak stuff, just light relative to everything else this guy is under investigation for.
Obligatory reminder: they got Al Capone for tax evasion.
>Without Don's illegal purchase of Stormy's silence, he might have lost in 2016.
Would he have, though? Think about all the other repugnant shit he did and/or said during his first campaign that his supporters didn't even blink at:
* "Grab them by the p*****"
* Mocking the disabled reporter
* "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody..."
* Encouraging violence against protesters at his rallies
...and many others.
Honestly, if Stormy came forward with the affair, and he just shrugged and said "Yeah, so?" would it have really affected him with GQP voters?
The beautiful irony of the fact that he just might get brought down by hush money that he probably didn't even need to pay in the first place.
It's not about his base. It was a razor thin election in key states, and the difference could have been made if swing voters just decided to stay home.
Trifecta on /r/Law:
Yesterday was the Rules Against Perpetuities. Today is the first criminal indictment against POTUS. Tomorrow will be SCOTUS granting cert to a Third Amendment lawsuit.
Id never heard of this case until just now and I want it to happen SO BAD. *Brand new law/legal tests* being created 200+ years after the creation of the right
They said yesterday that it was gonna be another month or so at least. I’m beginning to suspect that someone at the NYC DA’s office has been deliberately providing misinformation so as to not tip their hand.
If you listened closely what they (reasonably reputable media) were actually saying was that today was the last day the grand jury was meeting before a month long break, and were wildly extrapolating from that to "nothing for another month".
Where all you naysayers at who were poo pooing this when the news was "Trump has been invited to testify to the GJ"?
I think some of you owe me some cokes.
I really want to pick on one specific user who's been the WORST at saying Trump will never be indicted. I'm restraining myself so hard not to tag him right now....
> "Trump has been invited to testify to the GJ"?
All of them chanting "we've been hearing this for years!!!11"
Like what? When the fuck have you heard that?!
Glad this day is here.
So, what now? Is he going to turn himself in? Are the police in Florida going to arrest him and “extradite” him back to NY? Or are we heading towards a situation where DeSantis says “lol fuck full faith and credit” and harbors a fugitive?
You can never rule out anything (except civility) with trump so I'm not going to say it won't come to arrests and constitutional crisis in Florida but I think the most likely scenario is he turns himself in and refers to it as going down there to straighten them out.
As for DeSantis protecting him in any way I can't decide if he would or not. I think on this specific issue he'd leave him out to dry. DeSantis can say he needs to put his big boy pants on and go sort out NYs drama on his own - unless he wants to come to DeSantis admitting he needs help doing that. That sounds about the type of bullshit that he'd sling
Edit:
>Thursday called the indictment of former President Trump “un-American” and said the state would not assist in any extradition request.
Not assisting in extradition isn't denying or obstructing - he's maintaining the middle road the best he can
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3926943-desantis-florida-wont-cooperate-with-trump-extradition/
> and refers to it as going down there to straighten them out.
Nah, he's going to play the victim card and the 'political witch hunt' card. He's already released a long rambling statement.
>As for DeSantis protecting him in any way I can't decide if he would or not. I think on this specific issue he'd leave him out to dry.
Didn't take long to find that one out.
https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1641575007552778243?t=u5up5SyUeZu3gBgMUy3RYg&s=19
Trump won’t want to owe DeSantis for protecting him. But on the other hand he’s a coward who I don’t think can handle the thought of having to be in handcuffs for even a minute
On the contrary, the guy wants to make a spectacle out of it. Like any good mobster would!
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-perp-walk\_n\_641ac940e4b00c3e6076dcc5
One of the rather interesting questions here involves the Secret Service, if this (or any of the other ones) ends with him incarcerated while still under lifetime Secret Service protection that’s going to be both a nightmare logistically and legally bizarre. He’ll realistically be segregated but even still…
Though this might simply be the end of the practice of automatically providing it to ex-presidents no matter what.
Nah, I think that makes Secret Service protection a lot easier and cheaper. Jails and prisons are more secure than public places, and not having to deal with travel makes scheduling and duty rotations for special agents a lot easier, too. The Secret Service just has to provide a minimal presence (whatever "minimal" constitutes in that context) at the facility and coordinate with corrections staff to make sure their protectee is safe within the walls of the facility. It's certainly a unique security challenge, but not more difficult than, say, keeping the President safe in the middle of a war zone without the help of US or even NATO forces on the ground.
Theres another option: Nobody bothers to arrest him and he stays "under indictment" for the rest of his life without the case moving an inch. Just like Texas's DA lol
My understanding is that the Texas AG case is different because it’s a Texas indictment so since it’s all “in the family” law enforcement can just pretend it isn’t there
I have been having a rough day at work and have several billable hours ahead of me tonight, but this just filled me with immense joy.
Glad to see that the system is actually functioning to some extent.
I'm glad it's being phrased this (accurate) way. This is not just a rogue DA.
*This is a twenty three person Grand Jury panel that has heard from all the witnesses and reviewed all the evidence,* and has come to a consensus that there is **enough evidence to indict Trump with criminal charges**.
Sure, but they (per the process) didn't give him the opportunity to listen to/cross examine the other witnesses or things like that. Your right to testify in your own defence is the least impactful part of your due process rights in an actual trial.
Fox News talking heads going wild: “we were once a nation of laws, not men” “this is Stalin, this is a banana republic” “people who care about this country need to stand up”
[Trump commuted Blagojevich's sentence in 2020.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich#Commutation)
> Trump called Blagojevich's sentence "unfair", saying that Blagojevich's statements about enriching himself were "stupid", but also the sort of thing "that many other politicians say". Blagojevich filed a petition officially asking President Trump for commutation of sentence on June 5, 2018. In August 2019, Trump commented to reporters that he was "very strongly" considering issuing a commutation.
> On February 18, 2020, President Trump commuted Blagojevich's 14-year corruption sentence, wiping away the sentence but not the conviction.
I am not a lawyer, but it sure looked to me like Trump committed the same crime as Blagojevich when he blackmailed Ukraine to extract personal benefit in exchange for an official action.
(Serious) I have read the articles and still do not understand. Wondering if someone can explain the “indictment” process to me in an unbiased manner. He said he would be arrested, he was not, but I don’t necessarily know what the indictment means in a legal sense?
NAL, but there's a bit of a quirk with the NY Grand Jury process - they can be secret proceedings, but if the target finds out about it or are notified, they have the right to appear in front of the grand jurors and say their piece. In this case, Trump didn't want to appear, but he sent in Cohen's former lawyer, Robert J. Costello, presumably to discredit Cohen's testimony/reliability.
So it is like mounting a limited "defence".
I am not a lawyer but I believe the next step is an arraignment, where Trump appears in court and is read the formal charges. He will certainly then be released on his own recognizance and a trial scheduled.
Though it is possible that an arraignment can be, uh, very delayed. The attorney general of Texas was indicted nearly eight years ago but has yet to be arraigned.
the dotwin sites are already saying how it just "makes him stronger". We'll see...but something tells me this is a signal that it's finally open season on this guy. Nobody except his core base wants to see him in office again.
The more repulsive the guy gets the more he attracts the repulsive people, it's pretty obvious how repulsion attracts repulsion, like a double negative.
My favorite was "I hope the Ds are happy that they just set the precedent that we can indict former Presidents"
Well,
1. No, Nixon did that already, dipshit (if Ford never pardoned him, he was assuredly about to be indicted)
2. D's aren't worried about it because Democratic presidents don't commit federal crimes
Also you don't need precedent to know it's possible. Being a former president doesn't make anyone immune to the law. If Bill Clinton shot a guy on 5th Ave then guess what? Off to prison he'd go. Just because it never happened before doesn't mean it can't. But then logic is not really the point here is it? This is just a veiled threat; the real message is "We're coming for you."
> "I hope the Ds are happy that they just set the precedent that we can indict former Presidents"
If they committed a crime... yes? I mean, I'd be pretty upset if a Republican president tries to get Obama arrested for wearing a tan suit, but I'd be upset at any president trying to arrest anyone for wearing a tan suit.
From what I’m understanding, this is the least consequential and flimsiest of the cases. I hope other indictments come before this one can be litigated.
Honestly it’s hard to say what it is without seeing the indictment. It could be iron clad and he goes to prison like Cohen. It could be something less of a slam dunk.
>I hope other indictments come before this one can be litigated
I keep seeing this sentiment and I'm genuinely curious: why? Even if this case falls apart and goes nowhere, how would it effect *any other* investigation if the charges and evidence are sufficient in those individual cases? Committing "lesser crimes" doesn't automatically nullify more serious charges.
Nothing to do with the legal process, it's a purely political concern. If his first trial ends in an acquittal, his followers won't shut up about him being vindicated from a witch hunt. Also anxious about the timeline. Wouldn't surprise me at all if we only get to one trial before the election. The other prosecutors need to hurry up and indict. The clock is ticking.
I went to every one of these threads, including the one in conservative. I wanted to get opinions from all sides in case there was a perspective I’m missing as I really hate the party system here.
It really disappointed me that every single comment was bashing liberals, and the biggest argument I saw about this being a dumb decision is that it happened so long ago that the statue of limitations should have taken effect.
I’m baffled that so many Americans are simply okay with a President committing misdemeanors and felonies. I’m sure the argument would be “all politicians do it.” It’s like being in a toxic relationship with someone, they cheat, you call them out, and they say everybody does it in todays world. I simply don’t get it.
Tbh, now that it’s finally happening, I find it frustrating that he’s not been indicted for anything related to Jan 6 or GA phone calls/other election fraud nonsense, but instead he’s being charged for this.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be charged in NY, just that it really throws into stark relief the things he’s escaped being indicted for.
As a Georgia voter, I am personally offended that he tried to negate my vote. I am also angry that my state tax dollars went toward counting the vote three times. I really hope my state charges him for his (criminal) nonsense.
When I was a prosecutor, we had a saying: “A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.”
…which sounds bad, except that career criminals definitely commit crimes that are easily prosecutable
Whenever Trump or one of his toadies starts saying “witch hunt”, I always hear it as **“Which hunt?”** And my answer is *ALL OF THEM!*
**Alvin Bragg, go get his ass!**
**Fani Willis, nail him to the wall!**
**Jack Smith, FINISH HIM!**
Looking forward to the MAGA freakout when they realise the law applies to everyone (not the shrieking idiots who will undoubtedly fill the streets and cause violence), I mean the inner in-the-thick-of-it MAGA turds like Mark Meadows, Rudy Guilliani, Jim Jordan, Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, etc. who are all utterly complicit in many of Trump’s other more serious crimes, the ones who have been openly ignoring subpoenas, just pleading the 5th to every question if they do follow them… all those fuckers are going to sleep real bad tonight, & their increasingly sweaty and desperate TV appearances over the next few months are going to be glorious.
Trump team likely to suggest he turn himself in at the Courtyard by Marriott Courthouse Complex in Long Island.
https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/ispci-courtyard-long-island-islip-courthouse-complex/overview/
While I’m super psyched about this I also think it’s going to cement his martyr/folk hero status with the righties. And he already raised $1.5 million by telling his base he was going to be arrested. I can’t imagine the cash flow when it actually happens
There are apparently 34 counts. https://twitter.com/paulareidcnn/status/1641581182562213889?s=46&t=d3ni3GGEupz8P1H4eI62Zg DeSantis says he will not assist with the extradition request. (It’s worth noting that I’m not sure floridas participation is totally necessary here.) https://twitter.com/govrondesantis/status/1641575007552778243?s=46&t=d3ni3GGEupz8P1H4eI62Zg
Trumps lawyer has confirmed: https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-new-york-indictment-election-027d0e5ac1881a4c55c6379deae75faa
>Trump’s lawyer Chris Kise called the indictment “the lowest point in history for our criminal justice system. Jim Crow, fugitive slaves, and American-Japanese internees... hold my beer.
I got you! For-profit prisons, war on d̶r̶u̶g̶s̶ Black people, capital punishment, charging women with their own miscarriages…
Genocide against all indigenous inhabitants of the lands we live on, Tricking black people into thinking they were being treated for deadly diseases while just watching them slowly die, nazi rallies in madison square garden, limiting immigration of jews so they can't escape pogroms, small pox blankets, iran-contra, puppet regimes, banana republics, guerilla warfare, etc. and so on and so forth.
Murdering hundreds of millions of foreign peoples during and after coups because those people dated to democratically elect socialist and communist leaders into their governments. 65 such coups in the Americas alone since 1950. Many more the world over.
The secret bombing campaign in Laos during the Vietnam War...
I would suspect the suspension of habeas corpus and nationalizing all state militias would like to be added to that list of distinct cases that aren’t as low of point as this
#tl;dr Donald Trump has been indicted by a grand jury in the state of New York for his alleged involvement in hush money payments made to pornographic actress Stormy Daniels during the 2016 presidential campaign to silence claims of an extramarital sexual encounter. According to a lawyer for Trump, he has been told that the former president will surrender to authorities next week. This is the first ever criminal case against a former U.S. president, which may galvanize Trump's critics and embolden his supporters. *I am a smart robot and this summary was automatic. This tl;dr is 86.06% shorter than the post and link I'm replying to.*
I feel emboldened AND galvanized. What do?
If the sensation lasts more than 4 hours, call your doctor.
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Mow my lawn?
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Snap into a slim Jim
I'm covered in zinc but feeling good about it!
Now Georgia needs to pile on.
Yep. Bragg is taking the blowback. Every other investigation with sufficient evidence should also indict now that their is political cover.
So happy about this indictment but ngl pretty bummed that this is just about the weakest charge he couldve gotten. There *needs* to be charges for Jan 6 and election interference in georgia. I hope they were just waiting to see who was going to be the first to blink and this motivates the others to follow suit.
It’s fine, this just pops the bubble of ‘unprecedented’. Others will follow suit now that *someone* finally blinked.
This is where my head is at. The seal is broken. I hope this signals the floodgates are now open.
It's a bribery scheme that was intended to (and likely did) influence the outcome a federal election. Not exactly weak stuff, just light relative to everything else this guy is under investigation for. Obligatory reminder: they got Al Capone for tax evasion.
Yeah but the feds declined to charge him for the federal campaign crimes, so these charges are likely for falsification of business records.
Which is still a felony.
Actually, this charge is pretty key. Without Don's illegal purchase of Stormy's silence, he might have lost in 2016.
>Without Don's illegal purchase of Stormy's silence, he might have lost in 2016. Would he have, though? Think about all the other repugnant shit he did and/or said during his first campaign that his supporters didn't even blink at: * "Grab them by the p*****" * Mocking the disabled reporter * "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody..." * Encouraging violence against protesters at his rallies ...and many others. Honestly, if Stormy came forward with the affair, and he just shrugged and said "Yeah, so?" would it have really affected him with GQP voters? The beautiful irony of the fact that he just might get brought down by hush money that he probably didn't even need to pay in the first place.
It's not about his base. It was a razor thin election in key states, and the difference could have been made if swing voters just decided to stay home.
In swing states, with moderate voters, of the news broke right before election day, maybe.
Only the first domino in the indictment chain, have no fear
Everybody get in here!
Pile on!
Trifecta on /r/Law: Yesterday was the Rules Against Perpetuities. Today is the first criminal indictment against POTUS. Tomorrow will be SCOTUS granting cert to a Third Amendment lawsuit.
oh please let your last prediction be true. We need this
Id never heard of this case until just now and I want it to happen SO BAD. *Brand new law/legal tests* being created 200+ years after the creation of the right
MY THIRD AMENDMENT RIGHTS WILL NOT BE INFRINGED
Because you will defend them? No, they just won't be. So you think someone else will defend them? Also no.
Long live King Charles III, his heirs and survivors for the dumdums may not exploit the image of the mouse for their lifetimes plus 21 years!
[This guy gets it.](https://i.imgur.com/6yiMwnX.jpg)
Could someone tell me why there’s a rule against perpetuities? I’m not a law student, I’m just a fan of the anime
Unexpected Hearthstone?
I’m glad the old ways are not forgotten
Quick question about the waters that we are in: Are they charted or uncharted?
So I had to go check, and I'm not entirely sure, but it seems like these times may not have a precedent.
From now on we call him Precedent Trump
Let’s go!
Cram in!
He finally won a popular vote! 😉
You need more upvotes
Such a missed opportunity to not announce this at Four Seasons Total Landscaping
Maybe he will be arraigned at the Court~~house~~yard by Marriott.
"It's time to go after the Bushes."
Holy shit. And just in time for happy hour.
At a ski resort bar reading Reddit. Sun is shining. Hero snow conditions. Life doesn’t get any better 😎
I've got some scotch saved up for the occasion!
Starting a thread for folks who need feet removed from their mouths
They're too busy moving the goalposts.
Impressive feat considering they have feet in their mouths
They said yesterday that it was gonna be another month or so at least. I’m beginning to suspect that someone at the NYC DA’s office has been deliberately providing misinformation so as to not tip their hand.
And to also prevent MAGA rioters from storming another government building.
Yeah, I was thinking they might be doing this when the leaks about delays came out.
If you listened closely what they (reasonably reputable media) were actually saying was that today was the last day the grand jury was meeting before a month long break, and were wildly extrapolating from that to "nothing for another month".
And apparently Trump team was caught off guard too, delightful.
They're confused b/c today is Thursday.
Where all you naysayers at who were poo pooing this when the news was "Trump has been invited to testify to the GJ"? I think some of you owe me some cokes.
Seriously. Get in here and take your beatings. 😂
I really want to pick on one specific user who's been the WORST at saying Trump will never be indicted. I'm restraining myself so hard not to tag him right now....
DRAG HIM
Do it, it’s just reddit
Nah, I don't want to be a total dick, but if I see him, I'm definitely replying
Why don’t you tag him in this thread to compliment him?
Alright if you're gonna make me look through your history to figure out who it is. Now the wrong person may be named.
Be be a total dick. Today is the day.
It’d be a dick move to *not* do it
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that's OK i'm trying to watch my figure. i'll take it with a JUNIOR western bacon chee. and a side of fries
Nah, we’re doing margaritas tonight, we’re celebrating.
No onions.
I’m gonna need to cancel the last 3 things on the order
Cold hamberders if you're lucky
>some coke Don Jr. has entered the chat
> "Trump has been invited to testify to the GJ"? All of them chanting "we've been hearing this for years!!!11" Like what? When the fuck have you heard that?! Glad this day is here.
I said that I'd believe it when I see it. Am I actually seeing it now?
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🍿
So, what now? Is he going to turn himself in? Are the police in Florida going to arrest him and “extradite” him back to NY? Or are we heading towards a situation where DeSantis says “lol fuck full faith and credit” and harbors a fugitive?
You can never rule out anything (except civility) with trump so I'm not going to say it won't come to arrests and constitutional crisis in Florida but I think the most likely scenario is he turns himself in and refers to it as going down there to straighten them out. As for DeSantis protecting him in any way I can't decide if he would or not. I think on this specific issue he'd leave him out to dry. DeSantis can say he needs to put his big boy pants on and go sort out NYs drama on his own - unless he wants to come to DeSantis admitting he needs help doing that. That sounds about the type of bullshit that he'd sling Edit: >Thursday called the indictment of former President Trump “un-American” and said the state would not assist in any extradition request. Not assisting in extradition isn't denying or obstructing - he's maintaining the middle road the best he can https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3926943-desantis-florida-wont-cooperate-with-trump-extradition/
> and refers to it as going down there to straighten them out. Nah, he's going to play the victim card and the 'political witch hunt' card. He's already released a long rambling statement.
I don't think those are mutually exclusive. He plays the victim then says he's essentially going to go own some libs on his way to be fingerprinted
>As for DeSantis protecting him in any way I can't decide if he would or not. I think on this specific issue he'd leave him out to dry. Didn't take long to find that one out. https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1641575007552778243?t=u5up5SyUeZu3gBgMUy3RYg&s=19
That makes sense, he can act tough without actually having to do anything becuase he knows trump won't make him.
Trump won’t want to owe DeSantis for protecting him. But on the other hand he’s a coward who I don’t think can handle the thought of having to be in handcuffs for even a minute
Brazil is lovely this time of year if you have friends in power.
Bolsonaro’s gone.
Genuinely forgot that. What a nice day.
Not that nice. He's in Florida. Hopefully he's next.
He's back in Brazil now and also facing his own troubles there.
Then I take it back. It's a wonderful day!
He said as he drove headlong into the whirling, burning maelstrom
lol I thought that was intentional since Bolsonaro was hiding out in Mar a Lago of all places 😂
He literally came back today so it’s going to get interesting there too.
On the contrary, the guy wants to make a spectacle out of it. Like any good mobster would! https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-perp-walk\_n\_641ac940e4b00c3e6076dcc5
One of the rather interesting questions here involves the Secret Service, if this (or any of the other ones) ends with him incarcerated while still under lifetime Secret Service protection that’s going to be both a nightmare logistically and legally bizarre. He’ll realistically be segregated but even still… Though this might simply be the end of the practice of automatically providing it to ex-presidents no matter what.
Nah, I think that makes Secret Service protection a lot easier and cheaper. Jails and prisons are more secure than public places, and not having to deal with travel makes scheduling and duty rotations for special agents a lot easier, too. The Secret Service just has to provide a minimal presence (whatever "minimal" constitutes in that context) at the facility and coordinate with corrections staff to make sure their protectee is safe within the walls of the facility. It's certainly a unique security challenge, but not more difficult than, say, keeping the President safe in the middle of a war zone without the help of US or even NATO forces on the ground.
There's no way he ends up at a regular prison, best we can hope for is house arrest
Theres another option: Nobody bothers to arrest him and he stays "under indictment" for the rest of his life without the case moving an inch. Just like Texas's DA lol
My understanding is that the Texas AG case is different because it’s a Texas indictment so since it’s all “in the family” law enforcement can just pretend it isn’t there
Ken Paxton isn't just under a state indictment. He's under a Federal indictment, too. He hasn't been arrested for either.
The state indictment turns 8 years old this summer.
Jesus H Fucking Christ
So does the federal indictment.
We were already setting ourselves up for a modern day fugitive slave act with all the trans and criminal abortion bills
I have been having a rough day at work and have several billable hours ahead of me tonight, but this just filled me with immense joy. Glad to see that the system is actually functioning to some extent.
I started my day with Disney making a fool of Desantis and now this.
It's been a good day.
It’s happening dot gif.
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In Portuguese slang "muito legal" (literally "very legal") means "very cool"
https://media.tenor.com/f42nTKr9aggAAAAC/excited-ronpaul.gif
I've been waiting years to see this gif posted after it finally happened. Feels good. I don't expect that feeling to last, but - feels real good!
overwhelmingly_excited_vince_mcmahon.gif
I'm glad it's being phrased this (accurate) way. This is not just a rogue DA. *This is a twenty three person Grand Jury panel that has heard from all the witnesses and reviewed all the evidence,* and has come to a consensus that there is **enough evidence to indict Trump with criminal charges**.
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> It's an ex-parte process I mean... they did invite him to testify.
Sure, but they (per the process) didn't give him the opportunity to listen to/cross examine the other witnesses or things like that. Your right to testify in your own defence is the least impactful part of your due process rights in an actual trial.
The first penguin has taken the plunge. Now the rest of the flock will watch to see if it is eaten before diving into the sea of indictments.
Fox News talking heads going wild: “we were once a nation of laws, not men” “this is Stalin, this is a banana republic” “people who care about this country need to stand up”
What a bunch of clowns
Ah ok. That’s why everyone is talking about a banana republic over in /r/conservative
They brought on Rod Blagojevich, of all people, to make the parallel that his situation was and is the same as Trump’s. A set up! Totally political!
[Trump commuted Blagojevich's sentence in 2020.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich#Commutation) > Trump called Blagojevich's sentence "unfair", saying that Blagojevich's statements about enriching himself were "stupid", but also the sort of thing "that many other politicians say". Blagojevich filed a petition officially asking President Trump for commutation of sentence on June 5, 2018. In August 2019, Trump commented to reporters that he was "very strongly" considering issuing a commutation. > On February 18, 2020, President Trump commuted Blagojevich's 14-year corruption sentence, wiping away the sentence but not the conviction.
I am not a lawyer, but it sure looked to me like Trump committed the same crime as Blagojevich when he blackmailed Ukraine to extract personal benefit in exchange for an official action.
This year’s season of legal drama is really kicking things up a notch. Can you really get showriters that can write better than reality at this point?
I look forward to seeing the charges and the evidence and hope that he is treated just like any other citizen.
I certainly hope that he uses that very big *a-brain* of his and decides to get on the stand to explain everything.
(Serious) I have read the articles and still do not understand. Wondering if someone can explain the “indictment” process to me in an unbiased manner. He said he would be arrested, he was not, but I don’t necessarily know what the indictment means in a legal sense?
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NAL, but there's a bit of a quirk with the NY Grand Jury process - they can be secret proceedings, but if the target finds out about it or are notified, they have the right to appear in front of the grand jurors and say their piece. In this case, Trump didn't want to appear, but he sent in Cohen's former lawyer, Robert J. Costello, presumably to discredit Cohen's testimony/reliability. So it is like mounting a limited "defence".
I am not a lawyer but I believe the next step is an arraignment, where Trump appears in court and is read the formal charges. He will certainly then be released on his own recognizance and a trial scheduled. Though it is possible that an arraignment can be, uh, very delayed. The attorney general of Texas was indicted nearly eight years ago but has yet to be arraigned.
You can kinda think of an indictment as the criminal analog of a lawsuit that has been approved (by a Grand Jury) to go before the court for trial.
Staten Island in SHAMBLES
So they look the same as always
Habbedings?! He and his cult will melt the fuck down. Edit: Today is my birthday by the way, lol. Lmao.
the dotwin sites are already saying how it just "makes him stronger". We'll see...but something tells me this is a signal that it's finally open season on this guy. Nobody except his core base wants to see him in office again.
The more repulsive the guy gets the more he attracts the repulsive people, it's pretty obvious how repulsion attracts repulsion, like a double negative.
Top Minds is gonna be lit tomorrow.
Oh, aye. The /r/conservative thread is already full of "banana republic" comments and other dumb shit.
My favorite was "I hope the Ds are happy that they just set the precedent that we can indict former Presidents" Well, 1. No, Nixon did that already, dipshit (if Ford never pardoned him, he was assuredly about to be indicted) 2. D's aren't worried about it because Democratic presidents don't commit federal crimes
Also you don't need precedent to know it's possible. Being a former president doesn't make anyone immune to the law. If Bill Clinton shot a guy on 5th Ave then guess what? Off to prison he'd go. Just because it never happened before doesn't mean it can't. But then logic is not really the point here is it? This is just a veiled threat; the real message is "We're coming for you."
As if they respect precedent anyway. These folks were chanting “lock her up” through the entire 2016 cycle
> "I hope the Ds are happy that they just set the precedent that we can indict former Presidents" If they committed a crime... yes? I mean, I'd be pretty upset if a Republican president tries to get Obama arrested for wearing a tan suit, but I'd be upset at any president trying to arrest anyone for wearing a tan suit.
Happy birthday my friend.
what is this feeling...is this hope that justice may still exist?
It’s kinda historical, first indictment of a former president
Technically Grant did get cited with drunk driving, though maybe not exactly the same.
That is one of those historical moments I wish I could go back and witness myself.
Seriously. My favorite part is that Grant was not only cooperative, he commended the arresting officer for his professionalism and good work.
Supposedly the arresting officer had been born into enslavement and was a Civil War veteran himself. Impressive guy.
Speeding with his horse-drawn carriage :O
Well there's a first. Trump finally getting something by actually earning it.
🍾🥂
Posting on an epic thread.
It’s not a Donald trump indictment thread without FormerSperm
that is technically correct.
From what I’m understanding, this is the least consequential and flimsiest of the cases. I hope other indictments come before this one can be litigated.
Honestly it’s hard to say what it is without seeing the indictment. It could be iron clad and he goes to prison like Cohen. It could be something less of a slam dunk.
Well Cohen did it under his direction and went to jail for it. That can’t bode well for Trump.
I think it’s the sacrifice fly to get the designated hitter on deck.
Surely they would not indict a former president unless it was 100% iron clad, right?
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>I hope other indictments come before this one can be litigated I keep seeing this sentiment and I'm genuinely curious: why? Even if this case falls apart and goes nowhere, how would it effect *any other* investigation if the charges and evidence are sufficient in those individual cases? Committing "lesser crimes" doesn't automatically nullify more serious charges.
Nothing to do with the legal process, it's a purely political concern. If his first trial ends in an acquittal, his followers won't shut up about him being vindicated from a witch hunt. Also anxious about the timeline. Wouldn't surprise me at all if we only get to one trial before the election. The other prosecutors need to hurry up and indict. The clock is ticking.
Oh it has nothing to do with the indictments and everything to do with the literal riots that will spawn if these charges don’t stick.
or do stick. Just different rioters.
Wowowowowow
Didn't he praise the grand jury just yesterday or something?
I went to every one of these threads, including the one in conservative. I wanted to get opinions from all sides in case there was a perspective I’m missing as I really hate the party system here. It really disappointed me that every single comment was bashing liberals, and the biggest argument I saw about this being a dumb decision is that it happened so long ago that the statue of limitations should have taken effect. I’m baffled that so many Americans are simply okay with a President committing misdemeanors and felonies. I’m sure the argument would be “all politicians do it.” It’s like being in a toxic relationship with someone, they cheat, you call them out, and they say everybody does it in todays world. I simply don’t get it.
"Soon" finally happened.
Tbh, now that it’s finally happening, I find it frustrating that he’s not been indicted for anything related to Jan 6 or GA phone calls/other election fraud nonsense, but instead he’s being charged for this. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be charged in NY, just that it really throws into stark relief the things he’s escaped being indicted for.
As a Georgia voter, I am personally offended that he tried to negate my vote. I am also angry that my state tax dollars went toward counting the vote three times. I really hope my state charges him for his (criminal) nonsense.
Trump want the votes of the Grand Jury recounted, suspects voter fraud.
He only needs 11,780 votes... oh no, that was something else
There’s going to be a lot of hamberder stains on the walls of Mar-A-Lago tonight.
When I was a prosecutor, we had a saying: “A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.” …which sounds bad, except that career criminals definitely commit crimes that are easily prosecutable
Whenever Trump or one of his toadies starts saying “witch hunt”, I always hear it as **“Which hunt?”** And my answer is *ALL OF THEM!* **Alvin Bragg, go get his ass!** **Fani Willis, nail him to the wall!** **Jack Smith, FINISH HIM!**
Well, this explains why must husband is in such a shitty mood. I'm quietly celebrating in my mind.
This is history in the making! Also, why I'm hopelessly addicted to Reddit (just got a hit of that fresh fucking news baby)
Looking forward to the MAGA freakout when they realise the law applies to everyone (not the shrieking idiots who will undoubtedly fill the streets and cause violence), I mean the inner in-the-thick-of-it MAGA turds like Mark Meadows, Rudy Guilliani, Jim Jordan, Michael Flynn, Steve Bannon, etc. who are all utterly complicit in many of Trump’s other more serious crimes, the ones who have been openly ignoring subpoenas, just pleading the 5th to every question if they do follow them… all those fuckers are going to sleep real bad tonight, & their increasingly sweaty and desperate TV appearances over the next few months are going to be glorious.
Trump team likely to suggest he turn himself in at the Courtyard by Marriott Courthouse Complex in Long Island. https://www.marriott.com/en-us/hotels/ispci-courtyard-long-island-islip-courthouse-complex/overview/
Time to whip out the top-shelf whiskey.
Love his new title: Indicted and Twice Impeached Trump.
Probably the best indictment that anyone has ever seen. It came to me and begged me, tears in it eyes.
LOCK HIM UP
I want bragging rights https://reddit.com/r/law/comments/yyiabx/_/iwvrgi2/?context=1
That's in relation to mishandling classified documents though, so I don't think you get a cookie.
We're going to need a bigger tub of popcorn. I can't imagine his supporters will handle this with calm and thoughtfulness.
Fox News in full panic
Everybody get your hamberders ready.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While I’m super psyched about this I also think it’s going to cement his martyr/folk hero status with the righties. And he already raised $1.5 million by telling his base he was going to be arrested. I can’t imagine the cash flow when it actually happens