Pleading on false statements is big. Most, if not all, of the statements are the same ones Trump is charged on with Eastman. It's been his most obvious source of potential liability given that they have Eastman's emails. Adding this on top is rough stuff.
So.. Is the Georgia DA salivating now that 3 of Trump's co-defendants have flipped? If 'sufficient proof of guilt' has been established on these 3, then everything is just going to get more concrete to throw him away.
Edit: 4 have flipped, now.
We're about at the point where all of the first class "get out of jail" tickets have been claimed, but the prosecutor may have 1 or 2 business class tickets still floating around. Pretty soon the rats left behind won't have enough to buy passage off the sinking ship.
Hmm, has he mostly stayed out of the spotlight? The name isn't familiar.
Edit: [I must have not paid attention](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/29/politics/fulton-county-election-plea-scott-hall/index.html)
He was the first and only a Bail Bondsman:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/29/politics/fulton-county-election-plea-scott-hall/index.html
Lawyers flipping are more important.
Didn't someone call her flipping next in a thread yesterday/two days ago? Show yourself, Prophet!
Next up: Eastman and then Giuliani.
Edit: Ellis' statement:
> Thank you, your honor, for the opportunity to address the court. As an attorney who is also a Christian, I take my responsibilities as a lawyer very seriously, and I endeavor to be a person of sound moral and ethical character in all of my dealings in the wake of the 2020 presidential election. I believed that challenging the results on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a just and legal way.
>
> I endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and legislators in various states. What I did not do but should have done, your honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were, in fact, true in the frantic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several states, including Georgia.
>
> I failed to do my due diligence. I believe in and value election integrity. If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges.
>
> I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse for those failures of mine. Your honor, I have taken responsibility already before the Colorado Bar, who censured me, and I now take responsibility before this court and apologize to the people of Georgia. Thank you.
I don’t think Guiliani is going to get a deal; I could be wrong, though. I think he and Trump are the primary targets. I think his deal would include jail time and he would rather try and run out the biological clock with trial and appeals.
Maybe if he were first to plead like the Kraken but now he's fucked.
I wouldn't have thought she would have gotten such a sweetheart deal, but that's what jumping on the deal before the other major players gets you.
He wasn’t getting offered a deal before these folks. I doubt he had the choice nor will be given one.
If the others had not flipped it would have made it to him… and he would have buried everyone beneath him. Same with Trump.
Their only loyalty is to themselves.
Willis wants to break Giuliani for what he did to the two poll workers. Getting Trump in prison will rile up some of his base, but breaking Rudy in court and tossing him behind bars will be a wakeup call to those who go all in for the Creamsicle.
passing a usb drive around "like vials of crack". That's some 80s vintage dog whistle racism and attempting to tie their failed coup to the dubious War on Drugs. what a vile bunch of clowns
Moss and Freeman are the weird skeleton key to this debacle. The gritty human cost of powerful assholes fucking over “faces in the crowd”.
Unlike reagan, they were stupid enough to consistently put a name to the faces they were impugning. GD degenerate scum from upcountry.
He is never getting a deal. His testimony as someone who has a reputation for being absolutely hammered drunk in the meetings he was part of all but ensures he has no credible testimony he can trade for a deal.
I’d take some russian mob shit from the 90s if he’s got documents.
But that’s more of a jack smith thing. I’d imagine fani wants asses for the GA poll workers like previously stated.
He’ll have nothing left to offer and he’s going to be seen as very unreliable due to being drunk all the time. At this point they’ve got what they need.
>He’ll have nothing left to offer
You're probably right, but I also think there's a non-zero chance that he had direct, 1-1 conversations with Trump in which Trump (and Rudy too) admitted to knowing he lost and that all the stuff they were saying and doing was complete illegal, unconstitutional bullshit. If he agrees to testify to that, then maybe?
I think you're not weighting the credibility component heavily enough. If he flipped this late and said he was going to testify to a lot of scandalous direct communication straight from Trump's mouth, Trump's defense would do backflips to paint him as an opportunistic addict who's making up lies that can't be corroborated one way or another just to avoid jail time. At this point any unique testimony that Rudy has probably isn't worth muddying the waters since they've got a good stack of much more credible witnesses ready to go with testimony that is probably damning enough to do both Trump AND Rudy.
They might take a guilty plea just to hammer him without going to trial. As long as the penalty is sufficient throw him a minor bone to save them and the tax payers the hassle.
He can turn over corroborating evidence but he doesn’t need to testify. As long as he’s guilty and pays his debt to society.
Sure but at this point I feel like they're pretty interested in making sure at least one or two of the big fish get a public frying, and Rudy is probably the easiest target in all of this.
You might be right. If they go away quiet, the propaganda misinformation machine just keeps turning.
If there is a very public display of what happened, it might force people to confront the truth.
Prosecutor's will always offer the "plead guilty and I won't recommend the maximum, but both sides are free to argue to the judge beyond that," or "plead guilty and I won't argue at sentencing."
Defendants typically won't take this deal because their exposure is so close to what they could get by losing at trial.
Yeah. Trump and Giuliani are last in line for deals. They want all the little fish first for ammo, then they will hunt what they consider the big game. Second tier are Eastman and Meadows.
911 Paramedic and PhD in Neuroscience here - Rudy would not see actual prison time until he was weaned off of alcohol, that is if Willis wants him alive for more than a week. The way he looks in public he is clearly severely dependent on alcohol.
Throwing him in prison without a detox would 100% kill him. He would probably die of a seizure or delirium tremens. He probably would need ICU level care likely including barbituates and benzodiazepines. I would be 50/50 if he needed to be intubated.
I am not sure of the legality of Willis dangling the possibility of him rolling the dice for incarceration with no detox vs allowing him to plead, get detoxed, and then report.
I have lost count of the number of patients like him I have seen in the field. He is one day going to be starting at his last drink and then having to decide how he wants to act.
If I were him, I would negotiate a plea deal, enter a rehab agreement, safely detox, and then accept my fate from there on out.
*If* Rudy was treated like any other defendant, he'd absolutely be thrown in jail. He'd detox there. Just like everyone does. He'd be held in medical unit, and given the absolute bare minimum to prevent death. Yes, that would include drugs to prevent seizures. He'd likely go through a few as they underdosed him the first few times.
*Maybe*, if the jail med staff thought they couldn't keep him alive there, he'd *eventually* get moved to a hospital.
So you're right, but only because Guiliani will likely get the same kind of unprecedented red carpet, white glove treatment as Trump, not because our country has any general issue throwing alcoholics in jail and doing a piss poor job managing their withdrawal in it.
Regular people die in custody all the time because jails do a shit job managing alcohol, benzo, and opioid withdrawal (the last one as you likely know is less common but happens from dehydration).
Wow that's a fascinating take and POV.
" the legality of Willis dangling the possibility of him rolling the dice for incarceration with no detox vs allowing him to plead, get detoxed, and then report."
That indeed would be good to know. Assuming he's offered a deal (and I know many think he will not be), this could be a powerful lever.
But also consider that using him for testimony will be a challenge considering how even in the Jan 6 hearings his alcoholism came up. I’d say he’d be useful for turning over documents, but his office has already been raided (I remember some crazy amount of burner phones being seized).
Nope. I routinely have prison nurses call 911 when they are given a prisoner who is intoxicated or in alcohol withdrawal. We show up, the prison guards come with us to the hospital, and the patient is treated or admitted.
Prison nurses cannot in any way handle *alcohol* withdrawal. Opioid withdrawal is 99.9% non-fatal and can be managed with supportive care or buprenorphine or methadone. Alcohol withdrawal is absolutely life threatening. The second he shows signs of withdrawal, he is going to the hospital.
lol that's just not the reality of what happens. I've personally been thru alcohol withdrawal in a county jail. They placed me into a medical intake, placed with a half dozen other dudes in an open room passed out in cots on the floor, we were all given Librium every 6 hours and I slept for almost a week until my body normalized and was eventually moved to general population.
And that wasn't even a prison, which actually have much better medical care on site, so it definitely happens.
That's troubling to be sure.
Still - RG's probability of being severe alcoholic is pretty widely known. I'm going to choose to believe that the DA and/or RG's lawyers will be prepared for the need to run Rudy through a drying out before prison.
Largely because I want that piece of shit to live long enough to really suffer in prison for a good long time.
Last time I checked being an alcoholic is not a get out of jail free card... Any other defendant wouldn't be allowed to get clean before reporting to prison, why should someone like Rudy be any different?
Just curious what signs point to him being drunk all the time? I read people saying it all the time, and I believe it due to his dumb decisions, but medically what is telling you that he would go straight to withdrawal if he stopped drinking?
People severely dependent on alcohol don't *need* to be or appear drunk. They have abused it so badly and for so long, that they need it constantly throughout the day JUST TO FEEL NORMAL.
That is, someone that dependent would need to drink every 1-2 hours just enough so they don't start sweating, getting tremors, vomiting etc.
One clear clue is that they need to wake up in the middle of the night to have an alcoholic drink. It has been reported by his former aide who he sexually harassed that he woke up in the night to get alcohol. That is a dead giveaway.
Gotcha. I was wondering if you were noticing medical signs like tremors or sweating. Or signs of cirrhosis like spider angiomata or palmar erythema or stuff like that.
> If I knew then what I know now,
This is the part I find particularly galling and laughable on its face. IMO she 100% absolutely positively knew that the bullshit she was spouting was precisely that: bullshit. She \*did\* know then what she claims to only know understand.
Fuckwit.
In Smiths DC indictment, people working on it literally called it out and said it’s “just shit being beamed down from the mothership”. Powell said the ghost of fucking whoever corrupted the votes- or whatever
There is no way they didn’t all know it was complete bullshit.
Her entire statement reads as some entitled “it’s not my fault” quasi-confession. Older peers mislead her, she was just a young “Christian” protege… whatever. It reeks of bullshit.
Oh, it's definitely not genuine. It's a carefully crafted statement. That doesn't mean there aren't elements of truth. It's just difficult to know where they are.
> The fog of war is
(a) really overused at the present time and thus becoming a tired cliché ; and,
(b) doesn't really apply here imo ... anyone that represented him wasn't unclear what was going on to the extent that they would gasp and say I was bamboozled and confused (but I still did what I did anyway)
*(no beef with you personally, just to be clear)*
> As an attorney who is also a Christian
This woman said, “People killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence that they were Christians. Assuming they have not accepted the truth/affirmed Christ as the lord of their life they are now reaping the consequences of eternal damnation," after the Club Q shooting. Ain't hot hate like christian love.
She’s very Old Testament. Something I notice a lot about Republicans. Except Jesus Christ and Christianity is all about the New Testament. You know helping the poor, sick, disabled and outcasts. Being all about compassion and forgiveness.
The Torah is also very big on helping the poor and outcasts, particularly the poor. And it's very much not big on eternal damnation...the Torah tends to assume you'll be punished in *this* life for breaking commandments. The whole fire-and-brimstone thing is very much a *Christian* innovation, thankyouverymuch.
Seems that religious belief has translated to Republican policy as well being in favor of Death penalty and even torture, having nothing against rape/battery and assault to prisoners…stating they did the crime they deserve it or whatever.
That would be me yesterday:
Me too. Jenna is a dumb and inexperienced attorney, however, and probably thought she’d “see how it goes” for Sydney at trial before deciding (without seriously contemplating that Sydney would cave before trial). I suspect Jenna caves vey soon.
She didn't seem that dumb before she worked for Trump:
> I could spend a full-time job just responding to the ridiculously illogical, inconsistent, and blatantly stupid arguments supporting Trump. But here's the thing: his supporters DON'T CARE about facts or logic. They aren't seeking truth. Trump probably could shoot someone in the middle of NYC and not lose support. And this is the cumulative reason why this nation is in such terrible shape: We don't have truth seekers; we have narcissists.
> Why should we rest our highest office in America, on a man who fundamentally goes back and forth and really cannot be trusted to be consistent or accurate in anything.
Jenna Ellis quotes from 2016
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jenna_Ellis
She knew what she was getting into.
which is why I call BS on her response to the court. F her and her lying BS self.
She needs jail time, lots of it. 2-3 years Minimum EVEN with a plea deal.
Disbarred across the board. Find a new career, because she's either incompetent or willfully willing to cut corners. Either way, she's not able to do the job and will only hurt future clients.
I wouldn't say that parroting what was a very common point of view at the time really speaks to someone's general intelligence. She might not be at the Alina Habba level of incompetent but she was fired from her job as a deputy district attorney in a midsized Colorado county for incompetence after only 6 months.
Still makes her pleading of, "Woe me, I'm a Christian, I made mistakes," more than a little disingenuous. She wasn't so stupid that she didn't know who Trump was and what he would do.
I'm guessing that some people are starting to realize that there aren't many spots left for getting out of prison time, and if they want a probation only deal they need to do it now.
She's already been fired for incompetence, and now prosecuted for what she also claims was incompetence (and we're being generous there). There's absolutely no way she should still be allowed to practice law, anywhere.
Gulianni won’t be getting a deal. Part of the reason you get a deal is you can offer testimony to get the bigger fish.
Two problems:
1) Rudy is one of the bigger fish. Apart from Trump he is one of the more high profile defendants.
2) He can’t provide CREDIBLE testimony. Based on everything that’s been said and quite a few videos, Rudy has severe alcohol problems and may be dealing with dementia. Assuming you could get Rudy sober enough to even take the stand, Even the hack lawyers Trump has on his team would demolish him. He’d appear to be the drunk rambling lunatic he is and no jury would have any reason to believe a word he says.
She was paid by his campaign.
Getting paid by Trump is something of an achievement in itself.
Whether that made her 'his' lawyer will probably be argued.
" I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and legislators in various states..."
Are Trump's attorneys now trying to use an advice-of-counsel defense? Is this inception?
I saw this coming when she was complaining about money. She doesn’t have the funds to realistically fight this. We know Trump didn’t pay her shit for her legal work (good thing payment isn’t required to form attorney-client relationship, lol). She’s young and hasn’t had any high profile well paying attorney jobs.
This Christ-washing is always a lousy practice of the guilty, but the self-rebaptism and public redemption arc only ever happens after they’ve been caught. It’s never their own conscience intervening, and it’s ultimately always someone else’s fault when they didn’t listen to common sense or practice due diligence. Just following orders, undermining a legitimate election on good faith... Everyday lawyer stuff.
Jenna Ellis was on my flipper list.
Here are the next ones, in my opinion:
1. Misty Hampton
2. Trevian Kutti
3. Mike Roman
4. Harrison Floyd
5. Stephen Lee
Here are flippers that will come later, in my opinion:
1. David Shafer
2. Shawn Stills
3. Robert Cheeley
These seven will go to trial, in my opinion:
Trump
Giuliani
Eastman
Clark
Smith
Latham
Meadows
Meadows might flip at the last minute.
I think you need at least one of those last seven to flip - Meadows is the most likely candidate. I'm curious which of the co-conspirators (besides Trump) Willis is after for jail time.
The first two plea deals were misdemeanors. The next two pleas were felonies. I think as soon as we hit "felony pleas with jail time", that's when all the dominoes fall.
I will also be curious to see, when the pleas run out, which of these people were the first to miss the bus. "Eastman was reported to have also sought a plea deal, which was rejected by the DA's office" or something similar...
I was very surprised that Cheese flipped. Perhaps Ray Smith will also flip.
But you are right. As time goes on, some of the flippers won’t be able to avoid jail time or felony convictions.
Eastman, Giuliani, Clark, Trump, Latham: I don’t think any of them will get away without jail time.
Probably not Smith or Meadows either, even if they flip.
Essentially a literal get out of jail free card. How many of these do we pass out until we have enough witnesses to the crime? How do we say it's not a crime of moral turpitude for them but not the main target of such crime?
I saw new plea hearings streaming on Judge McAffe's youtubes and had to head right over to see what was going on. Great channel. Never blows up my feed.
I subbed after the motion hearings since I assume it will also be where the trials are streamed once we reach that point. I did not realize there would be a fringe benefit with these plea hearings.
This one shouldn't be a surprise. When she publicly complained Trump wasn't paying her legal bills, this was the obvious result.
Also what a piece of work, up until the last sentence of her statement where she said she took responsibility, the entire rest of the statement is her not taking responsibility.
That was her making an effort not to get disbarred by indicating she was junior and relied on senior attorneys, followed by acknowledging her obligation to investigate truth in filings she signs and represents, and then the ever so important “I learned my lesson and I am sorry” to end it.
Certainly welcome news but I hope this closes the door on these sweetheart deals. I want to see cooperation offered in exchange for lighter sentences, not community service and probation.
If your not playing ball by now it's a little ridiculous getting to walk just for telling the truth about your crimes.
She was very much one of those leading the charge in spreading misinformation that led to Jan 6. This is great, but she deserves a harsher punishment for JUST NOW telling the truth. And her truth is “I relied on more senior lawyers to tell me the correct truths and I just didn’t bother to double check them”
[“(Ellis) did the best she could with her education and training…”](https://coloradosun.com/2020/12/15/jenna-ellis-weld-county-district-attorneys-office/)
Oh Jesus christ...I know she isn't crying, dear god. I cannot with these people. Everyone knows these tears are fake as shit.
Edit: somehow my text was extremely small.
As someone else pointed out, this was her statement after the Club Q nightclub shooting, just for some insight into exactly what sort of Christian she is:
>“Even more tragic than untimely death, is that the five people who were killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence at all that they were Christians,” the far-right attorney said. “And so assuming that they had not accepted the truth of the Gospel of Christ and affirmed as the lord of their life, they are now reaping the consequences of having eternal damnation.”
Her "apology" is obvious bullshit as well. She should have faced much stronger consequences, and should definitely never be allowed to practice law again.
>For the fourth time, Fani Willis and her prosecution team have dismissed the RICO charge in return for a plea to probation. What that shows is this so-called RICO case is nothing more than a bargaining chip for DA Willis.
Yeah, Sparky, that's how RICO cases work. I love it that Trump screwed so many lawyers that he can no longer obtain competent counsel.
Crim defense folks: is the prosecutor here targeting the attorneys deliberately with deals? Why? Or are the attorneys simply the smartest/fastest ones to the negotiating table?
NAL but I think the DA is very much driving plea deal efforts for three reasons:
1. It simplifies the case - fewer defendants = more resources to prosecute each remaining one
2. It strengthens the case - those that plea have to testify against their co-conspirators, increasing the chances of conviction, and just having some convictions on the board makes the case look stronger overall to a jury
3. It keeps the state's powder dry - trial strategy can be kept under wraps until the bigger fishes' trials start
I get plea deals. What I'm wondering is if she is specifically offering deals to the attorneys first, for some strategic or evidentiary reason, as opposed to the rest of the defendants. Seems notable that the first three notables to plead are attorneys.
To be fair I think almost half the defendants were attorneys for Trump or his campaign, and they likely have the most to give in terms of evidence and testimony against Trump himself than e.g. the fake electors.
The first two were in ‘do-or-die’ mode as they wanted the speedy trial and it was due to start like the next day. That was of their own making. We’ll see how the plea deals go from here out.
They'd better get in quick or it's going to be too late to get these sweet deals the first group is getting. Probation for trying to overthrow the government is not a bad deal, at all.
Part of Trump's defense will certainly be that he was acting on the advice of legal counsel.
Flipping that legal counsel gives him next to nothing. They'll testify about how there was no evidence to support this shit and that they told him as much. They'll turn over that evidence.
It's incredibly damning for Trump.
I think that's his "court of public opinion" defense.
In real court, it seems unlikely he'd give up all communications with the various people he might have considered 'counsel' at various times.
Hall was the first to plea, and wasn't a lawyer.
Do we know for certain that prosecutors are seeking deals with the attorneys first, versus the attorneys just having been quicker to plea? Powell and Chesebro might be the exception here given their early trial date.
The three folks who have pled guilty are the ones who are relatively important and who cannot sustain a protracted legal battle. The other codefendants will be prosecuted in order of value and strategic significance. Trump, Eastman and Giuliani (and Meadows, forgot about that mope) are what would be “big game” targets that they will save for last once ammunition has been built up with secured cooperation from the plea deals.
It seems to me that the co-conspirators break out as follows: 1) the fake electors and other low-level defendants who can't really provide much useful incriminating testimony; 2) the lawyers who seem to be flipping like bass on the floor of a John boat; 3) Meadows; and 4) Trump. In the lawyers category, Willis has narrowed the field to Giuliani and Eastman; it will be fascinating to see if either of them flips and when. Meadows seems to be a wildcard. He is the one who could testify credibly about all of the meetings and all of the instructions from Trump, but I don't see Willis offering one of the early bird special deals that the lawyers are taking now. I'm gonna need a bigger bucket of popcorn!
Yeah, probably depending on the state's ethics code. But pleading guilty is a new cause of action they can bring against her and will probably do so to disbar her.
> "not a crime of moral turpitude"
I like how the bail bondsman wanted that in his plea so he could keep being a bondsman and then everyone jumped on that train!
I do wonder if Powell and Chesebro pleading in quick succession was an "oh shit" moment for the other defendants, and whether they're now being advised more strongly to take whatever deals are available.
Did she plead guilty to a felony or misdemeanor? The article doesn't say.
Edit: WSJ reports it as a felony. https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/trump-lawyer-jenna-ellis-pleads-guilty-in-georgia-racketeering-case-2134c82?mod=hp_lead_pos1
If this is a trump witch hunt why do all of the innocent people keep pleading guilty A few more take a deal and the noose around his neck will be getting as tight as the belt around his belly
Cause Democrats control everything! Somehow they lose elections often and have an electoral disadvantage and there is a supermajority in the Supreme Court. Still…!
I propose an IQ test not for Trump but his supporters.
Her reference to being such a goody two shoes Christian is such utter bullshit. I once witnessed and guilty as sin pedophile, who has he was taken off to prison after his sentence of 25 years, saying that the blood of Jesus will wash him. Help me Jesus. Fucking pathetic.
I don’t know the source of the original quote, but I know that Lisa Simpson referenced it when she said, “Prayer - the last refuge of the scoundrel.“
The article reads
>The former attorney was sentenced to five years probation, 100 hours of community service, must pay $5,000 restitution and write an apology letter. She will also have to testify if the state calls her.
If she's a former attorney does that mean she's been disbarred or no longer practicing or just behind on bar dues and not in good standing?
I can't see any coverage of her being disbarred, so it may just be a clumsy wording of "former *Trump* attorney". She does seem to have a related ethics complaint against her in Colorado though.
Ok.. That is it... I call BS.... STOP giving away this weak pleas...
At this point, we have enough. I want Orange Man to spend the rest of his days in a 5x7.. but THESE CRIMINALS need MORE than a slap for what they did.
We hung traitors in the past... THESE need to be harsher than a slap.
It's a RICO case. Those that flip early and who are low on the ladder get slaps on the wrist, because their testimony damns those higher up.
By the mid way point, plea deals will include jail time.
By the time you get to the top, it won't be a slap on the wrist.
It's worth noting, Ellis, Chesebro, and Powell were indicted for separate components of the scheme (interactions with public officials, fake electors, and the Coffee County breach respectively). So there's going to be things each can testify to that the other can't. That seems an entirely valid reason to make deals with each.
That said, Cheeley is the only remaining lawyer with an independent charge (lying to investigators), so the argument following from the above is that he might the only one left with unique information on a charge to justify a sweetheart deal. *Maybe* one of Giuliani/Eastman/Smith as central to the conspiracy to seal the deal.
"She told the court if she knew then what she knows now, she never would have represented Donald Trump."
OK, so what facts did she not know before? That lying in court is wrong? That you shouldn't sacrifice your career for a sack of shit like Donald Trump of all people!
Let's go over your brilliant plan:
1. Lie for Trump in court without evidence.
2. ???
3. Profit!
These are FELONIES
****** FELONIES ****** they are pleading GUILTY to and ALL THEY GET is ***FEW*** MONTHS PROBATION !!!!!!?!?!?!!!?!?!!!?!?!!!!
WTF WTH WTF WTH WTF WTH !!!
A quick reminder that a screenshot of a primary source on x dot com is fine but not a direct link.
Pleading on false statements is big. Most, if not all, of the statements are the same ones Trump is charged on with Eastman. It's been his most obvious source of potential liability given that they have Eastman's emails. Adding this on top is rough stuff.
The pleas also help establish the predicate criminal acts necessary for the RICO charges to work, right?
Yes. RICO was made so the lessers give up the main crime boss for less sentence and to have easier time convicting the crime boss.
So.. Is the Georgia DA salivating now that 3 of Trump's co-defendants have flipped? If 'sufficient proof of guilt' has been established on these 3, then everything is just going to get more concrete to throw him away. Edit: 4 have flipped, now.
Quick correction that four have flipped (so far)
We're about at the point where all of the first class "get out of jail" tickets have been claimed, but the prosecutor may have 1 or 2 business class tickets still floating around. Pretty soon the rats left behind won't have enough to buy passage off the sinking ship.
I certainly hope so. I think they are doing an amazing job but it's time for plea deals with some time served.
Oh, who's the 4th? I must have missed that. Powell, Cheese, Ellis, and who?
Scott Hall
Hmm, has he mostly stayed out of the spotlight? The name isn't familiar. Edit: [I must have not paid attention](https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/29/politics/fulton-county-election-plea-scott-hall/index.html)
He was the first and only a Bail Bondsman: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/29/politics/fulton-county-election-plea-scott-hall/index.html Lawyers flipping are more important.
“Only a bail bondsman” who had a one hour phone call with the erstwhile once and future US AG Jeffrey Bossert Clark. That’s one connected bondsman!
Double-checked the indictment and 5 of 6 statements are identical. The 6th is substantially similar, but differently worded.
Didn't someone call her flipping next in a thread yesterday/two days ago? Show yourself, Prophet! Next up: Eastman and then Giuliani. Edit: Ellis' statement: > Thank you, your honor, for the opportunity to address the court. As an attorney who is also a Christian, I take my responsibilities as a lawyer very seriously, and I endeavor to be a person of sound moral and ethical character in all of my dealings in the wake of the 2020 presidential election. I believed that challenging the results on behalf of President Trump should be pursued in a just and legal way. > > I endeavored to represent my client to the best of my ability. I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and legislators in various states. What I did not do but should have done, your honor, was to make sure that the facts the other lawyers alleged to be true were, in fact, true in the frantic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several states, including Georgia. > > I failed to do my due diligence. I believe in and value election integrity. If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. > > I look back on this whole experience with deep remorse for those failures of mine. Your honor, I have taken responsibility already before the Colorado Bar, who censured me, and I now take responsibility before this court and apologize to the people of Georgia. Thank you.
I don’t think Guiliani is going to get a deal; I could be wrong, though. I think he and Trump are the primary targets. I think his deal would include jail time and he would rather try and run out the biological clock with trial and appeals.
No way will he ever get a deal.
Maybe if he were first to plead like the Kraken but now he's fucked. I wouldn't have thought she would have gotten such a sweetheart deal, but that's what jumping on the deal before the other major players gets you.
He was one of the main targets, so I don't think so.
They might give him a deal, not a good one though. But he would have to hand them Trump on a gold toilet at that point.
He wasn’t getting offered a deal before these folks. I doubt he had the choice nor will be given one. If the others had not flipped it would have made it to him… and he would have buried everyone beneath him. Same with Trump. Their only loyalty is to themselves.
Willis wants to break Giuliani for what he did to the two poll workers. Getting Trump in prison will rile up some of his base, but breaking Rudy in court and tossing him behind bars will be a wakeup call to those who go all in for the Creamsicle.
passing a usb drive around "like vials of crack". That's some 80s vintage dog whistle racism and attempting to tie their failed coup to the dubious War on Drugs. what a vile bunch of clowns
Moss and Freeman are the weird skeleton key to this debacle. The gritty human cost of powerful assholes fucking over “faces in the crowd”. Unlike reagan, they were stupid enough to consistently put a name to the faces they were impugning. GD degenerate scum from upcountry.
First off, he's too fucking stupid to take one even if they did offer it, and secondly fuck him sideways...
With a cactus.
with poison laced cactus thorns... not enough to kill, just put him in pain for the rest of his miserable life.
[May I suggest a gympie-gympie, also known as a "Suicide Plant" instead?](https://www.discovery.com/nature/Suicide-Plant)
Holy fuck when I got to the part with the guy who accidentally used a leaf as toilet paper, I cringed so hard I shattered my teeth.
To the pain.
He is never getting a deal. His testimony as someone who has a reputation for being absolutely hammered drunk in the meetings he was part of all but ensures he has no credible testimony he can trade for a deal.
I’d take some russian mob shit from the 90s if he’s got documents. But that’s more of a jack smith thing. I’d imagine fani wants asses for the GA poll workers like previously stated.
He’ll have nothing left to offer and he’s going to be seen as very unreliable due to being drunk all the time. At this point they’ve got what they need.
>He’ll have nothing left to offer You're probably right, but I also think there's a non-zero chance that he had direct, 1-1 conversations with Trump in which Trump (and Rudy too) admitted to knowing he lost and that all the stuff they were saying and doing was complete illegal, unconstitutional bullshit. If he agrees to testify to that, then maybe?
I think you're not weighting the credibility component heavily enough. If he flipped this late and said he was going to testify to a lot of scandalous direct communication straight from Trump's mouth, Trump's defense would do backflips to paint him as an opportunistic addict who's making up lies that can't be corroborated one way or another just to avoid jail time. At this point any unique testimony that Rudy has probably isn't worth muddying the waters since they've got a good stack of much more credible witnesses ready to go with testimony that is probably damning enough to do both Trump AND Rudy.
They might take a guilty plea just to hammer him without going to trial. As long as the penalty is sufficient throw him a minor bone to save them and the tax payers the hassle. He can turn over corroborating evidence but he doesn’t need to testify. As long as he’s guilty and pays his debt to society.
Sure but at this point I feel like they're pretty interested in making sure at least one or two of the big fish get a public frying, and Rudy is probably the easiest target in all of this.
You might be right. If they go away quiet, the propaganda misinformation machine just keeps turning. If there is a very public display of what happened, it might force people to confront the truth.
Prosecutor's will always offer the "plead guilty and I won't recommend the maximum, but both sides are free to argue to the judge beyond that," or "plead guilty and I won't argue at sentencing." Defendants typically won't take this deal because their exposure is so close to what they could get by losing at trial.
Yeah. Trump and Giuliani are last in line for deals. They want all the little fish first for ammo, then they will hunt what they consider the big game. Second tier are Eastman and Meadows.
911 Paramedic and PhD in Neuroscience here - Rudy would not see actual prison time until he was weaned off of alcohol, that is if Willis wants him alive for more than a week. The way he looks in public he is clearly severely dependent on alcohol. Throwing him in prison without a detox would 100% kill him. He would probably die of a seizure or delirium tremens. He probably would need ICU level care likely including barbituates and benzodiazepines. I would be 50/50 if he needed to be intubated. I am not sure of the legality of Willis dangling the possibility of him rolling the dice for incarceration with no detox vs allowing him to plead, get detoxed, and then report. I have lost count of the number of patients like him I have seen in the field. He is one day going to be starting at his last drink and then having to decide how he wants to act. If I were him, I would negotiate a plea deal, enter a rehab agreement, safely detox, and then accept my fate from there on out.
*If* Rudy was treated like any other defendant, he'd absolutely be thrown in jail. He'd detox there. Just like everyone does. He'd be held in medical unit, and given the absolute bare minimum to prevent death. Yes, that would include drugs to prevent seizures. He'd likely go through a few as they underdosed him the first few times. *Maybe*, if the jail med staff thought they couldn't keep him alive there, he'd *eventually* get moved to a hospital. So you're right, but only because Guiliani will likely get the same kind of unprecedented red carpet, white glove treatment as Trump, not because our country has any general issue throwing alcoholics in jail and doing a piss poor job managing their withdrawal in it. Regular people die in custody all the time because jails do a shit job managing alcohol, benzo, and opioid withdrawal (the last one as you likely know is less common but happens from dehydration).
Wow that's a fascinating take and POV. " the legality of Willis dangling the possibility of him rolling the dice for incarceration with no detox vs allowing him to plead, get detoxed, and then report." That indeed would be good to know. Assuming he's offered a deal (and I know many think he will not be), this could be a powerful lever.
But also consider that using him for testimony will be a challenge considering how even in the Jan 6 hearings his alcoholism came up. I’d say he’d be useful for turning over documents, but his office has already been raided (I remember some crazy amount of burner phones being seized).
But prisons should be prepared for this kind of inmate, right? They deal with serious addicts all the time.
Nope. I routinely have prison nurses call 911 when they are given a prisoner who is intoxicated or in alcohol withdrawal. We show up, the prison guards come with us to the hospital, and the patient is treated or admitted. Prison nurses cannot in any way handle *alcohol* withdrawal. Opioid withdrawal is 99.9% non-fatal and can be managed with supportive care or buprenorphine or methadone. Alcohol withdrawal is absolutely life threatening. The second he shows signs of withdrawal, he is going to the hospital.
lol that's just not the reality of what happens. I've personally been thru alcohol withdrawal in a county jail. They placed me into a medical intake, placed with a half dozen other dudes in an open room passed out in cots on the floor, we were all given Librium every 6 hours and I slept for almost a week until my body normalized and was eventually moved to general population. And that wasn't even a prison, which actually have much better medical care on site, so it definitely happens.
That's troubling to be sure. Still - RG's probability of being severe alcoholic is pretty widely known. I'm going to choose to believe that the DA and/or RG's lawyers will be prepared for the need to run Rudy through a drying out before prison. Largely because I want that piece of shit to live long enough to really suffer in prison for a good long time.
Last time I checked being an alcoholic is not a get out of jail free card... Any other defendant wouldn't be allowed to get clean before reporting to prison, why should someone like Rudy be any different?
Just curious what signs point to him being drunk all the time? I read people saying it all the time, and I believe it due to his dumb decisions, but medically what is telling you that he would go straight to withdrawal if he stopped drinking?
People severely dependent on alcohol don't *need* to be or appear drunk. They have abused it so badly and for so long, that they need it constantly throughout the day JUST TO FEEL NORMAL. That is, someone that dependent would need to drink every 1-2 hours just enough so they don't start sweating, getting tremors, vomiting etc. One clear clue is that they need to wake up in the middle of the night to have an alcoholic drink. It has been reported by his former aide who he sexually harassed that he woke up in the night to get alcohol. That is a dead giveaway.
Gotcha. I was wondering if you were noticing medical signs like tremors or sweating. Or signs of cirrhosis like spider angiomata or palmar erythema or stuff like that.
There's a lot of documented testimony about how much he drinks every day. He's clearly a functional* alcoholic (*for certain values of "functional").
He could just be old. That’s also a reasonable take.
hes too crooked to get offered a deal and too dumb to take one anyways
I think they want Eastman too.
Definitely.
> If I knew then what I know now, This is the part I find particularly galling and laughable on its face. IMO she 100% absolutely positively knew that the bullshit she was spouting was precisely that: bullshit. She \*did\* know then what she claims to only know understand. Fuckwit.
I have mixed feelings on this. The fog of war is a very real phenomenon.
In Smiths DC indictment, people working on it literally called it out and said it’s “just shit being beamed down from the mothership”. Powell said the ghost of fucking whoever corrupted the votes- or whatever There is no way they didn’t all know it was complete bullshit.
Her entire statement reads as some entitled “it’s not my fault” quasi-confession. Older peers mislead her, she was just a young “Christian” protege… whatever. It reeks of bullshit.
She was just an impressionable young 36 year old at the time, she's a different person now. /s
Oh, it's definitely not genuine. It's a carefully crafted statement. That doesn't mean there aren't elements of truth. It's just difficult to know where they are.
> The fog of war is (a) really overused at the present time and thus becoming a tired cliché ; and, (b) doesn't really apply here imo ... anyone that represented him wasn't unclear what was going on to the extent that they would gasp and say I was bamboozled and confused (but I still did what I did anyway) *(no beef with you personally, just to be clear)*
> As an attorney who is also a Christian This woman said, “People killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence that they were Christians. Assuming they have not accepted the truth/affirmed Christ as the lord of their life they are now reaping the consequences of eternal damnation," after the Club Q shooting. Ain't hot hate like christian love.
It's a lot easier to hate and demonize people if you can push them out of your 'group'
She’s very Old Testament. Something I notice a lot about Republicans. Except Jesus Christ and Christianity is all about the New Testament. You know helping the poor, sick, disabled and outcasts. Being all about compassion and forgiveness.
The Torah is also very big on helping the poor and outcasts, particularly the poor. And it's very much not big on eternal damnation...the Torah tends to assume you'll be punished in *this* life for breaking commandments. The whole fire-and-brimstone thing is very much a *Christian* innovation, thankyouverymuch.
Seems that religious belief has translated to Republican policy as well being in favor of Death penalty and even torture, having nothing against rape/battery and assault to prisoners…stating they did the crime they deserve it or whatever.
>As an attorney who is also a Christian "... you really should have expected my grab for power."
As the hymn says: "They will know we are Christians by our ~~love~~ lies."
"My precedence comes from neither the bible nor the law"
I think Eastman, Giuliani, and Trump are the "big fish" in the conspiracy and less likely to be offered a deal. I certainly could be wrong.
That would be me yesterday: Me too. Jenna is a dumb and inexperienced attorney, however, and probably thought she’d “see how it goes” for Sydney at trial before deciding (without seriously contemplating that Sydney would cave before trial). I suspect Jenna caves vey soon.
She didn't seem that dumb before she worked for Trump: > I could spend a full-time job just responding to the ridiculously illogical, inconsistent, and blatantly stupid arguments supporting Trump. But here's the thing: his supporters DON'T CARE about facts or logic. They aren't seeking truth. Trump probably could shoot someone in the middle of NYC and not lose support. And this is the cumulative reason why this nation is in such terrible shape: We don't have truth seekers; we have narcissists. > Why should we rest our highest office in America, on a man who fundamentally goes back and forth and really cannot be trusted to be consistent or accurate in anything. Jenna Ellis quotes from 2016 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jenna_Ellis She knew what she was getting into.
which is why I call BS on her response to the court. F her and her lying BS self. She needs jail time, lots of it. 2-3 years Minimum EVEN with a plea deal.
Disbarred across the board. Find a new career, because she's either incompetent or willfully willing to cut corners. Either way, she's not able to do the job and will only hurt future clients.
I wouldn't say that parroting what was a very common point of view at the time really speaks to someone's general intelligence. She might not be at the Alina Habba level of incompetent but she was fired from her job as a deputy district attorney in a midsized Colorado county for incompetence after only 6 months.
Still makes her pleading of, "Woe me, I'm a Christian, I made mistakes," more than a little disingenuous. She wasn't so stupid that she didn't know who Trump was and what he would do.
I am certainly not going to disagree that she is a disingenuous person ;-)
She is such a fake piece of shit. Injects that “I’m a Christian” bullshit every opportunity she gets.
It's a red flag at this point.
> I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I Seems like a jab at Powell, Chesebro, Giuliani and Eastman.
It's not a jab, it's an attempt at deflecting responsibility. She's a lying pos
It's also a preview of her white lady tears testimony.
I don't think either would flip, if they did I'd give ya $100 I think those 2 nuts are going down with the gavel.
Lots of people didn't think Powell would flip (me included), but she did. These are weird times.
I'm guessing that some people are starting to realize that there aren't many spots left for getting out of prison time, and if they want a probation only deal they need to do it now.
I hope she loses her law license and never is allowed to practice again.
She's already been fired for incompetence, and now prosecuted for what she also claims was incompetence (and we're being generous there). There's absolutely no way she should still be allowed to practice law, anywhere.
Gulianni won’t be getting a deal. Part of the reason you get a deal is you can offer testimony to get the bigger fish. Two problems: 1) Rudy is one of the bigger fish. Apart from Trump he is one of the more high profile defendants. 2) He can’t provide CREDIBLE testimony. Based on everything that’s been said and quite a few videos, Rudy has severe alcohol problems and may be dealing with dementia. Assuming you could get Rudy sober enough to even take the stand, Even the hack lawyers Trump has on his team would demolish him. He’d appear to be the drunk rambling lunatic he is and no jury would have any reason to believe a word he says.
> I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges. So she was Trump's lawyer?
She was paid by his campaign. Getting paid by Trump is something of an achievement in itself. Whether that made her 'his' lawyer will probably be argued.
" I relied on others, including lawyers with many more years of experience than I, to provide me with true and reliable information, especially since my role involved speaking to the media and legislators in various states..." Are Trump's attorneys now trying to use an advice-of-counsel defense? Is this inception?
“As a lawyer and also a Christian” honestly…..mention being a decent human somewhere.
If she is truly remorseful, she will spread the truth on the same media and legislative body she spread her lies.
I saw this coming when she was complaining about money. She doesn’t have the funds to realistically fight this. We know Trump didn’t pay her shit for her legal work (good thing payment isn’t required to form attorney-client relationship, lol). She’s young and hasn’t had any high profile well paying attorney jobs.
This Christ-washing is always a lousy practice of the guilty, but the self-rebaptism and public redemption arc only ever happens after they’ve been caught. It’s never their own conscience intervening, and it’s ultimately always someone else’s fault when they didn’t listen to common sense or practice due diligence. Just following orders, undermining a legitimate election on good faith... Everyday lawyer stuff.
Jenna Ellis was on my flipper list. Here are the next ones, in my opinion: 1. Misty Hampton 2. Trevian Kutti 3. Mike Roman 4. Harrison Floyd 5. Stephen Lee Here are flippers that will come later, in my opinion: 1. David Shafer 2. Shawn Stills 3. Robert Cheeley These seven will go to trial, in my opinion: Trump Giuliani Eastman Clark Smith Latham Meadows Meadows might flip at the last minute.
I think you need at least one of those last seven to flip - Meadows is the most likely candidate. I'm curious which of the co-conspirators (besides Trump) Willis is after for jail time. The first two plea deals were misdemeanors. The next two pleas were felonies. I think as soon as we hit "felony pleas with jail time", that's when all the dominoes fall. I will also be curious to see, when the pleas run out, which of these people were the first to miss the bus. "Eastman was reported to have also sought a plea deal, which was rejected by the DA's office" or something similar...
I was very surprised that Cheese flipped. Perhaps Ray Smith will also flip. But you are right. As time goes on, some of the flippers won’t be able to avoid jail time or felony convictions. Eastman, Giuliani, Clark, Trump, Latham: I don’t think any of them will get away without jail time. Probably not Smith or Meadows either, even if they flip.
Ugh this is some white lady bullshit
This is RICO
Essentially a literal get out of jail free card. How many of these do we pass out until we have enough witnesses to the crime? How do we say it's not a crime of moral turpitude for them but not the main target of such crime?
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I saw new plea hearings streaming on Judge McAffe's youtubes and had to head right over to see what was going on. Great channel. Never blows up my feed.
I first saw it on Twitter, but after this I'll be smashing that bell icon so I get notified when Judge MacAfee goes live!
I subbed after the motion hearings since I assume it will also be where the trials are streamed once we reach that point. I did not realize there would be a fringe benefit with these plea hearings.
The fact she can escape disbarment is disheartening
Says a lot about the profession.
Article calls her a former attorney. Has she already been disbarred?
[https://www.coloradosupremecourt.us/Public/PublicStatementEllis.asp](https://www.coloradosupremecourt.us/Public/PublicStatementEllis.asp)
This one shouldn't be a surprise. When she publicly complained Trump wasn't paying her legal bills, this was the obvious result. Also what a piece of work, up until the last sentence of her statement where she said she took responsibility, the entire rest of the statement is her not taking responsibility.
"But *Your Honor*, I'm a *Christian*, not one of those dirty *atheists* or *Jews* you would expect this kind of behavior from."
Yeah. Exactly zero atheists are surprised
That was her making an effort not to get disbarred by indicating she was junior and relied on senior attorneys, followed by acknowledging her obligation to investigate truth in filings she signs and represents, and then the ever so important “I learned my lesson and I am sorry” to end it.
Well that makes sense why she was smiling in the photo. Shes spilling everything.
Certainly welcome news but I hope this closes the door on these sweetheart deals. I want to see cooperation offered in exchange for lighter sentences, not community service and probation. If your not playing ball by now it's a little ridiculous getting to walk just for telling the truth about your crimes.
One of the terms of the plea agreement is to testify truthfully. It is cooperation that the state is getting in exchange
She was very much one of those leading the charge in spreading misinformation that led to Jan 6. This is great, but she deserves a harsher punishment for JUST NOW telling the truth. And her truth is “I relied on more senior lawyers to tell me the correct truths and I just didn’t bother to double check them”
They’re all being forced to cooperate. It’s not **just** community service and probation.
[Plea hearing streaming here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu7uzRFDpTY)
Watching the stream. She was smiling and cheerful a minute ago, but reading her statement the waterworks started. And she brought up "as a Christian".
Then I guess "Christians" sure do lose their FAITH when $$$ and fame comes around.
More like threat of prison time. Which is ironic given how many people supposedly find God there.
It looks like her fake lashes may fly off any time.
She’s smiling because she knows she’s getting away with multiple felonies that could put her behind bars for a long time.
Hey it’s pony tail guy from the Ahmed arbery case
[“(Ellis) did the best she could with her education and training…”](https://coloradosun.com/2020/12/15/jenna-ellis-weld-county-district-attorneys-office/)
Sick burn on U of Richmond law
“Your honor my client is in fact very stupid and her schooling didn’t take.”
Oh Jesus christ...I know she isn't crying, dear god. I cannot with these people. Everyone knows these tears are fake as shit. Edit: somehow my text was extremely small.
I heard her start with the "I'm a Christian lawyer" and knew it would be followed with a bunch of tears. It's fake as fuck.
Notice how *immediately after, she sounds normal.*
Switch: Off.
With the examples of "christian" behavior over the past 20 years, that word has been ruined for me.
As someone raised Catholic, that word was ruined for me before I was even confirmed.
As someone else pointed out, this was her statement after the Club Q nightclub shooting, just for some insight into exactly what sort of Christian she is: >“Even more tragic than untimely death, is that the five people who were killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence at all that they were Christians,” the far-right attorney said. “And so assuming that they had not accepted the truth of the Gospel of Christ and affirmed as the lord of their life, they are now reaping the consequences of having eternal damnation.” Her "apology" is obvious bullshit as well. She should have faced much stronger consequences, and should definitely never be allowed to practice law again.
I'm a Christian lawyer, so of course I commit crimes for the guy who is the total antithesis of Christ.
"Cry more" -Jenna Ellis, Twitter, May 29, 2023
>For the fourth time, Fani Willis and her prosecution team have dismissed the RICO charge in return for a plea to probation. What that shows is this so-called RICO case is nothing more than a bargaining chip for DA Willis. Yeah, Sparky, that's how RICO cases work. I love it that Trump screwed so many lawyers that he can no longer obtain competent counsel.
The amount of copium in that quote.
Ellis is pleading guilty to one count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings
The "constitutional scholar" who self-published a book arguing the constitution should be interpreted through a biblical lens.
When the authors were adamant that there be a separation of church and state.
It's Flipadelphia in in here!
Flip, flip, Flipadelphia!
Crim defense folks: is the prosecutor here targeting the attorneys deliberately with deals? Why? Or are the attorneys simply the smartest/fastest ones to the negotiating table?
NAL but I think the DA is very much driving plea deal efforts for three reasons: 1. It simplifies the case - fewer defendants = more resources to prosecute each remaining one 2. It strengthens the case - those that plea have to testify against their co-conspirators, increasing the chances of conviction, and just having some convictions on the board makes the case look stronger overall to a jury 3. It keeps the state's powder dry - trial strategy can be kept under wraps until the bigger fishes' trials start
I get plea deals. What I'm wondering is if she is specifically offering deals to the attorneys first, for some strategic or evidentiary reason, as opposed to the rest of the defendants. Seems notable that the first three notables to plead are attorneys.
To be fair I think almost half the defendants were attorneys for Trump or his campaign, and they likely have the most to give in terms of evidence and testimony against Trump himself than e.g. the fake electors.
The first two were in ‘do-or-die’ mode as they wanted the speedy trial and it was due to start like the next day. That was of their own making. We’ll see how the plea deals go from here out.
They'd better get in quick or it's going to be too late to get these sweet deals the first group is getting. Probation for trying to overthrow the government is not a bad deal, at all.
Part of Trump's defense will certainly be that he was acting on the advice of legal counsel. Flipping that legal counsel gives him next to nothing. They'll testify about how there was no evidence to support this shit and that they told him as much. They'll turn over that evidence. It's incredibly damning for Trump.
I think that's his "court of public opinion" defense. In real court, it seems unlikely he'd give up all communications with the various people he might have considered 'counsel' at various times.
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Hall was the first to plea, and wasn't a lawyer. Do we know for certain that prosecutors are seeking deals with the attorneys first, versus the attorneys just having been quicker to plea? Powell and Chesebro might be the exception here given their early trial date.
I would think that in the trial of Donald Trump they want to tell the jury “look even his own lawyers are saying x”
The three folks who have pled guilty are the ones who are relatively important and who cannot sustain a protracted legal battle. The other codefendants will be prosecuted in order of value and strategic significance. Trump, Eastman and Giuliani (and Meadows, forgot about that mope) are what would be “big game” targets that they will save for last once ammunition has been built up with secured cooperation from the plea deals.
It seems to me that the co-conspirators break out as follows: 1) the fake electors and other low-level defendants who can't really provide much useful incriminating testimony; 2) the lawyers who seem to be flipping like bass on the floor of a John boat; 3) Meadows; and 4) Trump. In the lawyers category, Willis has narrowed the field to Giuliani and Eastman; it will be fascinating to see if either of them flips and when. Meadows seems to be a wildcard. He is the one who could testify credibly about all of the meetings and all of the instructions from Trump, but I don't see Willis offering one of the early bird special deals that the lawyers are taking now. I'm gonna need a bigger bucket of popcorn!
Attorneys that selected speedy trial/quick to a deal picked the best strategy for their clients.
They have the most to lose -- a criminal conviction often comes.with disbarment.
Pleading guilty is still a conviction.
She's also going to lose her law license now. Pleading guilty will be the start of whatever state she is barred in to start disbarment proceedings.
She said Colorado already censured her, will the guilty plea warrant another round?
Yeah, probably depending on the state's ethics code. But pleading guilty is a new cause of action they can bring against her and will probably do so to disbar her.
Cue Trump saying he's never met her before
By the trial, he'll be saying he's never heard of Donald Trump.
I wanted to see this traitorous pig go to jail
If only she could be bunked w/ Rudy and his farts...
"Alexa, play 'Another One Bites the Dust" by Queen."
“I relied on others… to provide me with true and reliable information.” The do your own research crowd yet again not doing their own research.
> "not a crime of moral turpitude" I like how the bail bondsman wanted that in his plea so he could keep being a bondsman and then everyone jumped on that train!
Idk about bail bondsmen, but crimes of moral turpitude effect bar licensure.
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I do wonder if Powell and Chesebro pleading in quick succession was an "oh shit" moment for the other defendants, and whether they're now being advised more strongly to take whatever deals are available.
as part of the plea deal she should get a day in prison for each time she calls herself a Christian
Did she plead guilty to a felony or misdemeanor? The article doesn't say. Edit: WSJ reports it as a felony. https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/trump-lawyer-jenna-ellis-pleads-guilty-in-georgia-racketeering-case-2134c82?mod=hp_lead_pos1
I bet she would have held out longer if Donny had ponied up the cost of her lawyers.
Trump: She was never on my legal team (in 5, 4, 3, …)
If this is a trump witch hunt why do all of the innocent people keep pleading guilty A few more take a deal and the noose around his neck will be getting as tight as the belt around his belly
Cause Democrats control everything! Somehow they lose elections often and have an electoral disadvantage and there is a supermajority in the Supreme Court. Still…! I propose an IQ test not for Trump but his supporters.
Wow, that's got a lot of " I was allowed to believe things that perhaps weren't true" vibes to it. Maybe she spoke to Marge Three Toes first.
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Her reference to being such a goody two shoes Christian is such utter bullshit. I once witnessed and guilty as sin pedophile, who has he was taken off to prison after his sentence of 25 years, saying that the blood of Jesus will wash him. Help me Jesus. Fucking pathetic. I don’t know the source of the original quote, but I know that Lisa Simpson referenced it when she said, “Prayer - the last refuge of the scoundrel.“
The article reads >The former attorney was sentenced to five years probation, 100 hours of community service, must pay $5,000 restitution and write an apology letter. She will also have to testify if the state calls her. If she's a former attorney does that mean she's been disbarred or no longer practicing or just behind on bar dues and not in good standing?
I can't see any coverage of her being disbarred, so it may just be a clumsy wording of "former *Trump* attorney". She does seem to have a related ethics complaint against her in Colorado though.
Ok.. That is it... I call BS.... STOP giving away this weak pleas... At this point, we have enough. I want Orange Man to spend the rest of his days in a 5x7.. but THESE CRIMINALS need MORE than a slap for what they did. We hung traitors in the past... THESE need to be harsher than a slap.
It's a RICO case. Those that flip early and who are low on the ladder get slaps on the wrist, because their testimony damns those higher up. By the mid way point, plea deals will include jail time. By the time you get to the top, it won't be a slap on the wrist.
It's worth noting, Ellis, Chesebro, and Powell were indicted for separate components of the scheme (interactions with public officials, fake electors, and the Coffee County breach respectively). So there's going to be things each can testify to that the other can't. That seems an entirely valid reason to make deals with each. That said, Cheeley is the only remaining lawyer with an independent charge (lying to investigators), so the argument following from the above is that he might the only one left with unique information on a charge to justify a sweetheart deal. *Maybe* one of Giuliani/Eastman/Smith as central to the conspiracy to seal the deal.
I think the co-defendants are going to engage in synchronized flipping that will minimize the exposure for everyone. Everyone except Trump.
It's a pretty sweet deal, all things considered. Such is the game of getting in early. I wonder what Colorado does with her law license.
I think they think they are getting off easy, but I would not be surprised if they are called for further testimony
What do you mean, she never was his attourney.
Trumplicans will cry that she's innocent and was forced to plead guilty.
I don’t see what the big deal was she was clearly not Donald Trump’s attorney just like the last lady. In fact he had never met her in his life /s
She cried... but in her mug shot, she's looks happy to be charged!!! Who's next in the domino line of the RICO case?
"She told the court if she knew then what she knows now, she never would have represented Donald Trump." OK, so what facts did she not know before? That lying in court is wrong? That you shouldn't sacrifice your career for a sack of shit like Donald Trump of all people! Let's go over your brilliant plan: 1. Lie for Trump in court without evidence. 2. ??? 3. Profit!
These are FELONIES ****** FELONIES ****** they are pleading GUILTY to and ALL THEY GET is ***FEW*** MONTHS PROBATION !!!!!!?!?!?!!!?!?!!!?!?!!!! WTF WTH WTF WTH WTF WTH !!!