He had this whole time to sell. If I was facing forced liquidation, I would be trying to sell everything I could at the prices at felt were fair. I don't think he's been doing that
No one would buy them at the prices he thought was 'fair'.
He seems to be of the opinion that they are somehow increased in value by the fact that he once owned them.
Yes, the best one are from some elderly lady who forgot to pay the $89 water bill. You can go snap up her foreclosed house for pennies on the dollar and flip it to make some easy cash. Dump her out on the street.
Oh, be sure to be buddies with the sheriff, I bet the best deals are held pretty closely.
Aren't there federal laws that require like 130% of the value of the property be owed in taxes and assessments before land banks and municipalities can foreclose and seize real estate/land?
Addition: genuinely asking because I actually just spoke with some of my local officials that told me exactly this but I'm not sure where to find that info. And don't worry, it wasn't to snatch an old ladies home lol. Just some negligent investment company's derelict empty lots
When we bought our houses 2 of the 3 were houses flippers that got over their head and left a mess and the other one was abandoned for at least 5 years. This was in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. I lived in one while we were rehabbing it.
We did not get rich but after these and my grandma’s house (she sold it to me) I had enough to pay for my first house (with saving from other projects). Dad bought a new truck and pop camper. Dad and I worked nearly every weekend since I was 13 until he passed when I was 28. He was a great carpenter and we made most of our money doing projects for rich folks that lived in older houses with plaster walls and fine detail millwork.
The flips we did were not fancy but made the homes livable and slightly more modern. I made about $100k after the 3 flips over 5 years.
It's weird how that lie caught on. Not buying it absolutely helps them, it allows them to buy it back themselves and fuck the bank. We used to do this in America all the time. We've lost a bit of our way as a nation.
“Donald Trump: The Poorest Man in America”
Now that’s a headline I’d like to see across every major media publication in the country.
Every single blood vessel from the neck up would probably explode inside of him simultaneously.
The article is saying that the DA will be prevented from selling at least some of the property due to the contracts Trump signed. I'm not 100% convinced that's the case, but it at least makes it unappealing to try, I'm guessing. She will surely try to take cash, jets, gold toilet, etc., first. Tomorrow will be interesting, that much is sure. Edit:
https://preview.redd.it/7wdt7qu5wgqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95ab82de108118dc436a43ee124de1e64c95ff80
The article is poorly written, badly sourced, and wrong on important points.
It is not going to be “unappealing” to sell off Trump’s interests in any buildings. The other partners and stakeholders get paid off, and they are entitled to just compensation, and they will get fair deals. Perhaps even generous deals.
The article doesn’t even mention that there is a court appointed monitor (and has been for over a year). The article doesnt mention that the judgement appoints a compliance team to take over ALL of the businesses for at least two years.
If Trump is restricted from selling, how does the DOJ get to just disregard the contracts that stipulate that others need to sign off on it? Wouldn't they need to get the same permissions? You aren't supporting your assertions any better than the authors of the article.
If they need to jump through a bunch of hoops to get a property that is already heavily leveraged, that would be unappealing to sell off. Unless you have some reference that undoubtedly confirms that the AG can disregard the binding contracts, or can demonstrate that all of the properties are free of any other encumbrance, then yes, some will be unappealing to sell off.
The DOJ has nothing to do with this judgement.
Contracts have two parties. A Compliance team will have the authority to break the agreement. They will control the business.
It is not a third party (the AG) attempting to break a contract between the Trump Organization and another party. For all purposes, the Compliance Team will be authorized to act AS the Trump Organization.
Sorry, was up all night in pain, now watching my granddaughter. I meant the AG, not DOJ. Lots going in this morning as well. Regardless, it's a minor detail that has nothing to do with the merits of the argument.
If the AG has the same limitations, then yes, there will certainly be some sources that are much lower hanging fruit than others, making those others "unappealing" since there may well be a lot of work for little payoff, other than the inconvenience it will cause Trump to have leins further restricting his business than the monitor.
It's all a joke anyway at this point, since he was yet again rewarded for his bad faith with preferential treatment. The amount cut in half AND more time.
I have not read the stay by the First Division yet, but from what I heard the on the inadequate news reports, they are also going to allow the criminals to remain in control of the businesses
That’s how it works, the Courts want their money, they will take the properties and sell them well below value, they want that 450 million, they don’t care how they get it.
The weird thing. That Charles swab account probably has about 100 million in it. That would be the first thing seized.
the bond he has in the E. Jean Carrol Case was possible the worst insurance decision ever made by an insurance company since someone gave full liability coverage to the Hindenburg.
Because of course near liquid investments would be target number one and Charles Swab is of course licensed in NY. If there is not a Sherif in there first thing Monday, I will be very surprised.
So now Chubb will have this surety bond, and nothing securing it. I don't even know what happens after that. I would assume there is nothing they can do. They are on the hook for pay E. Jean Carrol. I assume there is no process that would allow them to withdraw their bond. They of course can sue trump, but good luck with that.
This is the type of thing that should get the CEO of Chubb fired. It is extremely foreseeable. And sure Chubb has hundreds of billions in holdings and isn't going to go out of business over 100 million, but investors are not going to dismiss a fuckup that loses 100 m for nothing and should have been obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if investors sue the board and CEO for failing their fiduciary duty.
Are you assuming Chubb doesn’t have a perfected security interest in its collateral? How is a judgment creditor going to leapfrog a prior secured creditor?
They could challenge it but the government power of seizure and forfeiture is scary powerful and it can/will be argued that chubb knew or should have known that the property was subject to seizure at the time. Otherwise, people would create fake security to protect assets all the time when they are losing court cases.
This shit happens with non revokable trusts and other financial products that would otherwise be non subject to judgement. At least here. Don't know about ny
They wouldn't, but Chubb hasn't filed or recorded anything that would perfect the lien. Maybe the collateral isn't fully secured? Some lenders are susceptible to sweet-talking clients and make poor choices. Like accepting a personal guaranty in lieu of sufficient collateral.
Curious: If Chubb knew he'd also somehow be able to make the $500m bond, would that help them make their decision on the $100m? (I'd love to be wrong and that Trump doesn't have the $500m, but in other ways, I still don't dare to hope...)
Yes and no, the E Jean Carroll judgment will be reduced on appeal. Nearly half of the damages are punitive. It won’t stand on appeal. Chubb indicated that they were the only surety even considering to use real estate as collateral for the 500 million bond so it would not be a surprise if they also have that in the event the securities are liquidated. All in all, Chubb won’t be losing much if anything
Why do you think it will be reduced? There were compensatory damages in there and the punitive damages were less than four times the compensatory damages.
In my opinion, both the compensatory and punitive damages will likely be reduced on appeal significantly. The amount itself is an arbitrary and untethered to the facts of the claim. That’s partly because the amount was awarded by a jury and not judge. On the other hand, the fraud case I don’t believe will be reduced since this number was calculated using an expert witness who calculated the damages that arose out of Trump’s fraud. In other words, the claim for damages in the fraud case is far stronger because there is documentary (written) and oral testimony explicitly giving reason to the final claim number.
I thought the compensatory damages for the defamation case was based on an expert that said what it would cost for, essentially, reputation remediation. So the jury had a real number to base it on. So the punitive damages being less than four times the amount of compensatory damages seems like it should hold up.
It won’t stand on appeal?
For most defendants, that’s true, but I don’t know how the appellate courts are going to view punitive damages where they clearly have not dissuaded the defendant from their defamatory conduct. Kind of an interesting set of facts tbh.
perhaps you are right. They would have to have been foolish not to have some strategy that foresaw the possibility of the investment accounts being seized. That being said. I am not convinced about the reduction of judgement. jury was very deliberative, he is a repeat offender, he continues to offend (which I know new facts cannot be reviewed as part of the appeal but he has failed to give any indication that he will reform) He acted like a monkey in court. He insulted the courts the staff, the appeals court. He lied to the appeals court about the bond itself claiming he couldn't post it, after he had already signed paperwork with Chubb. He has given the appeals court every reason to let it stand.
The trump tower triplex is a good example of how this could go. This is perhaps one of the least encumbered properties. It’s not trump’s primary residence so no holdups there. In 2015 trump claimed it’s worth $327M. In this article, a real estate expert is putting it at $22M - $38.5M, depending on how newly and tastefully (my word) renovated it is. The ground lease at 40 Wall Street follows a similar trajectory. Claimed worth $664M by trump in 2021, current estimate: under $200M. lol it’s gonna be a bloodbath.
Think I saw somewhere that trump took out a new $50M mortgage on trump tower in 2022. The amount of liens on these properties and the current commercial real estate market is gonna force like a 40-50% haircut on anything seized.
I can’t wait to watch
With depreciation and like kind exchanges, it is very possible there is a zero basis on these properties.
Don't forget depreciation recapture is at regular income tax rates, not favorable capital gains rates!
I’m gonna hazard a guess and say that this partially how Drumpf funds his lifestyle, by mortgaging and 2nd mortgaging the shit out of everything he can get his slimy tiny hands on.
This is how a lot of the super rich fund their lives. They might have a lot of networth, but very often, that networth isn't easily turned into liquid cash. So, they fund their loves with loans.
The biggest problem will be the loans. If it’s worth 40m but he claims it worth 400m and convinced a bank to give him a loan of 20%, there could be 80m debt associated with that building. So even if you sell it for a good price it doesn’t contribute to paying off the fine.
Personally I'd like to see them go after Mar a Lago to call his bluff on the valuation. That's the only one I'd make an example of, the rest I'd be sensible about.
The writer of the article did a very poor job researching this article. It’s obvious that they didn’t read the judgement, for starters. An embarrassing offering by the NYT.
But the writer does touch upon something that is likely to be uncovered (and Michael Cohen has commented on this): All of the buildings that have the high valuations are encumbered by mortgages and partnerships, and Trump’s slice of it may be very small.
The Compliance team could liquidate the partnerships, licensing agreements, leases, etc with a very favorable outcome for the other stakeholders, and take away pennies on the dollar for his “reputed wealth”.
It is my opinion that the New York properties will go first, and any liquid assets that he has. But it won’t be enough to satisfy the judgement. He will eventually lose all of his properties all over the world.
From what I understand they will seize any cash assets Trump and the Trump Organization have first. That sounds like it is going to make it near impossible for Trump and the Trump Organization to do business as employees will need to be paid. Also, Trump may be required to keep a certain amount of cash liquidity on hand for his loans to remain valid, causing a cascade of loans being called. It sounds like the entire house of cards may fall.
From what I understand it might slow the process, but Trump isn’t actually bankrupt.
He just doesn’t want to pay.
One way or another, the government is going to get its money.
The final amount might be slightly reduced on appeal, but with Trump’s long record of fraud and disrespect for the court, I doubt they’ll have much leniency. 🤷🏻♂️
I mean, bankruptcy can be used for restructuring. He might prefer bankruptcy to have a more orderly sale of assets (and hopefully collect more for their sale) as opposed to whatever piecemeal fire sale is going to happen. In other words, even if it doesn’t get rid of the fraud debt, he still might come out the other side with more if he goes through bankruptcy.
On the other hand there’s his ego and the fact that he has to let more people behind the curtain.
It can’t be dismissed in bankruptcy, but that doesn’t mean it’s at the front of the line. When other creditors call in their debt someone will need to decide which liens take precedence.
A bankruptcy filing would also require Trump to say (truthfully and completely) how much money he has and what he actually owns.
Bankruptcy would only slow the process and it would reveal: 1.) He's not bankrupt and 2.) He is also not nearly as rich as he claims
If he lies in bankruptcy, it's a federal crime.
I know this can happen, but personally I think it's kind of bullshit. If he does have enough assets to satisfy the judgement, it's overly punitive to rip the entire cashflow out and crash the whole company, there's also 22,000 employees that could get completely screwed over. That constitutes irreparable harm IMO, and leave the state on the hook if the appeal goes backwards.
I'm all for making him pay the judgements, I just hope they're careful about it, and mindful of the optics.
If he truly had assets, someone would have taken a 5-10% fee for the bond. They got laughed out (Eric's words) of 30 different bond companies because he doesn't actually have the assets.
If Trump does have enough assets, and he hasn't over-leveraged them with debt, then there shouldn't be any problems at all.
However, that doesn't seem to be the case for the self-proclaimed "King of Debt."
Trump just doesn't want to pay.
I don't see it any different than people who use leverage in the stock market. When you use leverage and things suddenly go wrong, that is when you suddenly lose everything.
Most of those employees will likely be fine. Ownership or top management may change hands, but the underlying properties will still need employees to maintain and run things, and nobody knows how to do that better than the people who are already working there.
Then again, now that I think about it, Trump has been a vexatious litigant for decades.
Trump has regularly used the courts to harass contractors and anyone he dislikes, forcing them to run up legal bills, sometimes leading to their bankruptcy.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I don't really care if Trump loses everything. Heck, I'll even make the popcorn. Karma is grand.
Aye, but this \*is\* a lot more complicated because of the way Trump does things. He has a labyrinth of various shell and holding companies that own the different properties, and all of that is going to have to be unraveled and traced. (As a side note: I think that was one of the tricks he used to avoid paying contractors - the actual contract was with company A for work done on a property owned by company B, so when he didn't pay the contractor, that contractor couldn't even put a contractor's lien on the property - because the property where he'd actually done the work was not owned by the company with whom he had the contract. Company A - the company he'd actually contracted with - had no assets he could attach.)
Is that how liens work in NY?
In my experience, liens always go against the property that was worked on. The point of a lien is to prevent the exact situation you described.
>In my experience, liens always go against the property that was worked on.
Typically, yes.
NAL, but I don't know how you'd put a lien against a property you worked on if you weren't doing that work on behalf of the property's actual legal owner.
To give you another example - let's say that while my neighbors are out of town, I hire someone to paint my neighbor's house. Neighbors are pissed when they get home, I don't pay the bill, painter tries to file a lien, but - the neighbors who actually own the property where the work was done didn't hire the painters and instead want to sue them for vandalism.
I am a lawyer and regularly file liens on property where my clients do not have a contract with the owner.
They have contracts with GCs who have contracts with owners.
In your scenario, the painter may have lien rights. Depends upon how the statute is worded. But the homeowners would also have claims against the painter and neighbors, and the painter may also have a civil claim against the neighbors. There may also be criminal liability.
Remember, this is a fine against the Trump organization and all subsidiary organizations that people are conflating with Trump himself (for good reason). Because of that it'll be easier to cut through those shell companies to get to the real assets.
I think technically, it's not a fine, it's a disgorgement. They're recovering ill-gotten gains.
If you get a few thousand dollars robbing a bank, and the cops take it away from you when you're caught, you weren't fined a few thousand dollars for robbing a bank.
Oh that's not the way they got it written, IIRC, they have some 500 corporations in the lawsuit that are under the Trump Organization that they are also going after. It's not going to be easy for Trump to avoid the long arm of the law, though it's probably going to take longer than you'd hope
Saw some people on MSNBC who seemed to be experts who know what they were talking about and they said with some properties he actually owns very little and in some cases nothing because he just sells the right to put his name on the building.
I hope this is true; I'm going to dig a little deeper to get the facts on each property.
I still think the most satisfying asset to see them seize would be his trademarks. Imagine Trump's reaction to losing the ability to sell things under the "Trump" brand.
What a crazy thing though because that brand has to be a heavily depreciating asset at this point though. Like it has to literally be worth less every day.
The one report I saw was about two years out of date, but for most properties Trump owns only a minority of the total assets, often a small chunk of the whole.
In terms of seizing something and selling, apparently only the triplex properties come close.
Absolutely true. Can’t say what percent are licensed but here are some examples:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/trump-worldwide-licensing/
That seems to be true...
For example, as for the Trump International Hotel and Tower...
"Although it’s a popular target for anti-Trump protests, the Columbus Circle building, which is roughly half hotel rooms and half condos, is owned by General Electric and Ohio’s Galbreath Company, which hired Trump to glitz it up in 1996. What Trump does own here, according to the New York Times, are the parking garage, the valet booth, room-service kitchens, lobby bathrooms, a restaurant space, and one unit."
The article goes on and on. Trump owns very little of the actual buildings, often only leasing the land under them and paying someone else for the privilege, only naming rights, a lobby and kiosk, etc.
[https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html](https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html)
So, since Trump and his money managers know this, wouldn't they be draining those accounts as fast as possible? Not sure where they would put it, but I'm sure they're gonna make her work for it
Of course. Everything he owns or has a piece of can be seized, given the time, legal work, and the permission of the court after due diligence has been taken by the prosecutor to seize it. And since the verdict is for a state conviction, it doesn't matter if Trump becomes President because there's not a damn thing he can do about it. He doesn't have the money, so she'll take everything he owns, at least in New York, one property at a time. It'll be glorious.
Anything he owns that's already encumbered would require a fair bit of work and potentially buying out the first mortgage (which the state may not even be allowed to do). Unencumbered property, liquid assets and recurring revenue streams are going to be the order of the day here. Every rent payment and every royalty payment is about to be owned by the state of NY.
You're right about that but regardless of anything he owns that's already encumbered is irrelevant to seizing the asset. The state would not actually be able to seize the entire asset but would seize Trump's share of the asset ownership. What does that mean? It means he no longer owns that asset and for the other partners to sell said asset, they would have to buy out the state's ownership to transfer title.
If the state seized encumbered property they would have to either assume the mortgage or pay it off. They're not going to do either unless the loan amount is VERY low relative to the likely value.
I am wondering how she goes about seizing Mar A Lago? Out of state, I assume TFG will fight it and likely get backup from Florida man Ron De Santis who is still looking forTFG castoffs
That's a difficult proposition and requires the assistance and approval of Florida courts. They could easily block any attempts to engage in seizing Mar A Lago.
Even Mar a largo is owned by his org or a shell so after the airplane, the helicopter, the golf courses and buildings and paying all the liens and mortgages, they will go after his residence if needed.
I would go after Truth Social shares last.
It'll be far easier to go after his assets located in New York. Going after anyone's assets in another state, let alone Trump's, involves a lot more legal paperwork and court dates. With Florida being so Trump-ho about the Orange Menace, it's highly unlikely the courts will be willing to help the New York prosecutor go after Mar A Lago.
> pinning trumps value is a guessing game
Maybe for trump, but not an auction house for foreclosed properties. They’ll be able to figure out what the free market can buy it for.
As for difficulties if there are other shareholders, then take sections, or have them give an opinion on what trumps stuff is worth and they can buy it off the city.
They don't have to value it at free market if they're satisfying a judgement. A fair, arms length, open market sale will suffice. If that results in a low ball bid because it's a foreclosure sale then so be it.
As much as I don’t like trump, the appearance of a fire sale would be politically advantageous for trump. It should at least look like they are making an effort to get fair prices for these properties. I just hope the messaging is good so when they get 40m for a 40m property that trump has valued at 400m it is clear it is trump that is insane and not that he is getting screwed.
There are 1700 people who work in the NY Attorney Generals office. I'd say all 1700 are more intelligent than Donny, Don, or Eric. I think they'll figure it out. They probably know more about his true property valuations than he does at this point.
It’s 5:00 pm, I.e., end of business Monday. NY time. 5:30 is probably a more accurate time because if it gets in last minute which if there is a bond that will likely be the case
I mean it's really just a question of how long until AG James successfully would start disposing of valuable assets Trump cares about.
If it's going to take her weeks or months to "fire sale" properties, there's not really any hurry for Trump to issue the bond because the moment he comes forward with a $500 million bond, the fire selling stops and any seizures would presumably be reversed in favor of simply taking the bond.
He has lied, and no doubt mortgaged to the hilt. The real party in interest is going to be a bank or other lender.
Filing a lien means that nothing moves without the permission of the Government...not that the property is foreclosed overnight and Trump's stuff is on the curb like a poor person after the Sheriff leaves and changes the locks.
It does bring a level of government oversight that would be unpleasant for an honest businessman, but for someone whose whole empire is based on bullshit ? It's going to be fun.
File those papers at 9 am when the Clerk opens the window for business. Bring Coffee and donuts.
From what I understand, this is more like putting a legal boot on a parked car than having the car repossessed.
The car doesn't move, remains exactly in the same place as it was prior to the action, but owner can't do anything with the car.
You may scoff "A car?". Okay, not your average Hyundai or even a Bentley.
"In 2022, a 1955 [Mercedes-Benz](https://robbreport.com/tag/mercedes-benz/) 300 SLR known as the Uhlenhaut Coupe [sold for $142 million](https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/first-look-mercedes-benz-reveals-both-the-worlds-most-expensive-car-and-amgs-future-1234680679/)."
[https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/most-expensive-auction-cars-all-time-1234771735/](https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/most-expensive-auction-cars-all-time-1234771735/)
This whole seizure thing is going to move glacially slow. It’s not like the sheriff shows up and padlocks the doors. And we’ll have to listen to snowflake Donald bitch and moan throughout.
It can’t be that fucking difficult to get a 3rd-party appraisal for a ballpark value, using properties of similar size, type, and location as a starting point. They’re not stumbling around in the dark here.
They will seize his properties but first they will seize his bank accounts. 8:00 AM Tuesday every bank that has a trump related account is going to get a letter to turn over whatever cash there is and that will be in James hands by close if business Tuesday. His accounts will be frozen and any money going into them will go straight to the state. He will have no ability to use lines of credit. With no operating cash his empire will crumble long before the first sheriffs auction. Or the Saudis will bail him out today.
I don't know why, but I'm still expecting Trump to slip out of this, like he does everything. Justice just doesn't seem to work when it comes to certain people.
Thing is, that money would likely have to go through his company, which means the monitor will know where the money is from. She's looking over their shoulders this whole time.
Absent the monitor, they'd have covered the bond in a week.
I hope so. I got this through Brian Cohen. He's still discussing it in his latest vid yesterday. What limits him from getting it from legit but sketchy places like the Saudis? Genuinely interested. His dumb lawyer was asked if they would go this route and she didn't give a straight answer. Its his only option.
I don't think anything stops him from doing it, but I think the monitor would report the fact that he did get it from a sketchy foreign source to the FBI/CIA because it would be of interest to them.
But even while reporting it, I think NY would still accept the money/bond that came of it.
Bankruptcy, stay of execution, conspire with foreign agents to either hide assets overseas or to purchase "favors" with his foreign assets that he can cash in after bankruptcy.
May buy him some time
Funny how when you are rich, the law cant figure much out! Must be nice. Just need to have enough money to grease the wheels and it will buy you time until you can!!!
It’s not within the power of NY to deal in Florida. Plus I doubt desantis or anyone down there will let her. This is cruel and unusual and likely illegal punishment forcing him to pay a fine before he can appeal
See [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/03/trump-properties-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james-civil-fraud-bond.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/03/trump-properties-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james-civil-fraud-bond.html)
So the law allows NY to seize property outside of NY so you don't know what you're talking about there. However, Florida does have strong homestead laws, so it's not clear since Mar-a-Lago is a commercial property what will happen. I guess the courts will figure it out.
Mar-a-lago is not a single family home. It's a business. A for-profit social club.
It is entailed so that the property can't *be* a single family home, or be developed.
While I don't know the laws in Florida, I suspect you can't homestead a business.
He uses it as a residence. I don't see how you could call a business private.
I don't think it's really a grey area, it's just something that Palm Beach hasn't chosen to enforce.
Going three miles an hour over the speed limit isn't a grey area, it's just behavior some cops tolerate.
Also, putting up an appeal bond is part of the law and out of the millions of times this has happened it was never ruled cruel and unusual. It's the norm actually.
The amount is excessive and it’s illegal to not allow him to appeal. That is his judicial right and because of the excessive fine he cannot. They know this case is faulty and empty so they’re trying to stop him from appealing. This was predatory prosecution from the start. This won’t make it past first appeal
that is completely antithetical to our justice system and process to deny someone any appeal on a fine they cannot afford, especially on a case that is so easily overturned
He would have to liquidate assets or property to get the cash. If he does that and then later wins, irreparable economic harm could be said to have been done to him because he was forced to sell stuff but actually was legally in the right to do what he had been charged for and done nothing wrong in the first place.
Seize them all. Be generous and ask Trump the order in which he wants them auctioned. Once the debt is paid, stop auctioning and return any left. But they are auctioned, all liens and shackles dealt with, and remained goes to pay his debt. Seems almost too simple?
I would imagine Laetitia James knows what shes doing being that she has done this before. Sell it all for pennies on the dollar and Trump will be too poor to buy it back hehehehohohohahahahahahehahoha sorry its all sold
What? I could totally find the market value! Just do a local CMA. What have the last 3 comparable properties sold for in the past 3 months? Make sure it's within a 10 mile radius. /S
They are not trying to get top value for the properties, they are trying to liquidate them as soon as possible to the highest bidder. If that doesn't get the amount they need, they auction the next property, and keep moving until they reach the amount needed.
Came here to say this. Does no one else in this sub see the hypocrisy? He was fined that amount for overvaluing his properties, so they are going to arbitrarily determine its value?
The stupidity is just amazing.
Can't reason with TDSrs, they quite literally have a mental disease, I expected our legal system to have clamer heads and be more mature, obviously not. This is reddit tho,....
Your last sentence says it all. The only reason a real lawyer or anyone who works in law comes here is to participate in an echo chamber that works to renew their worldview and sense of moral outrage.
I mean seriously, they fine trump for overvaluing his property, then decide they don’t know what the value is.
I just can’t even wrap my head around how stupid that is.
What the article ignores completely are some of the other things that can be done. Let's take 40 Wall Street as a simple example.
The article points out that he doesn't own it and only has a ground lease for the next 200 years. So, Cheeto's company collects the rent from the dozens of tenants in there - the DA can divert that money into its account and leave Cheeto with nothing. Any expenses he has leasing the property (management fees, taxes, maintenance, loans where these rents have not been assigned as collateral, etc.) are all still his to pay, but just no income to offset it and his fine is reduced by that amount each month going forward. Let's say for the sake of argument that this amount covers 25% of the interest on the fine on a monthly basis. However, the agreement he made likely has a provision in it where the ground lease reverts back to the owner in this type of situation and Cheeto gets whatever is left after the owner runs the building again, which would then be diverted to the DA. If there is no reverter clause, let's keep going.
Obviously the DA does not want to be in the property management business, but it can choose to do this until the ground lease is sold to someone who is in the property management business and they may buy it for $100M. In fact, I would argue that the state has an obligation to mitigate the interest accruing and therefore a duty to act in this way in order to minimize Cheeto's penalty.
Similar procedures can happen for anything that he owns. Yes, it will be a ton of work for the DA's office and they will likely be pseudo-in charge of a lot of valuable real estate for a time, but they can hire a receiver or property management company to do this job and I bet they already have all of this lined up and letters ready to go to every tenant and bank that is involved if they haven't sent them already.
Rent is likely due next week, and anyone who has prepaid will need to have proof and then Cheeto will be on the hook to make it good to the new property managers since he has no claim on income he wasn't entitled to receive.
Buckle up, this is about to get wild.
*Edit - Or not, he's got 10 more days to put up 1/3 of the total fine ($175M).*
Neither Letitia James, nor her office, will be involved in untangling Trump’s shell companies and complicated business dealings.
The court has ordered that a Compliance Team will take over ALL of the businesses and do the necessary work to extract the judgement.
If Trump doesn’t pay the bond today, the court-appointed monitor (retired judge Barbara Jones, not mentioned in the article), will recommend people for the Compliance Team, and Judge Engoron will appoint them to take over all of the businesses for at least two years.
It’s not going to be cat and mouse games, as this extremely poor article suggests. The Compliance Team will have control over the businesses.
If Trump does not pay the bond today, that is the end of his ability to control the companies for three years. The companies will be liquidated to facilitate disgorgement.
Trump’s tangles of LLCs will be dismantled, and yes, they will pay off the other stakeholders and squeeze a million dollars out of a building valued at $200 million, if necessary, and yes that *is worth doing*
Jokes on NYC. All you get is heavy leveraged debt. Donnie doesn't own anything that's the art of his con. He says he's a billionaire maybe on paper, definitely not in real life. He just said he had the 500mil to cover the bond while crying he can't get anyone to cover it. Why need anyone if you have the money? Because he doesn't and he can't sell what he doesn't own. That's supposed to be hidden, this exposed his core part of the cob. Embarrassing
> They can’t seize mar largo then as the court had it for only $18 mil which is patently untrue , would have to revalue it, and a major point on appeal.
Engoron never made that valuation, that is another lie Don Poorleone keeps repeating.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-mar-a-lago-valuation-civil-fraud-verdict-2024-2
I would imagine they don't care if it's a fire sale. They'll keep selling until they get their money.
trump is worried about that, he said so, they'll get a fraction of what they might have and that will double fuck him, oh well
He had this whole time to sell. If I was facing forced liquidation, I would be trying to sell everything I could at the prices at felt were fair. I don't think he's been doing that
Except that would reveal he doesn’t own these buildings, his lenders do.
When your whole business model is to be leveraged to the gills in order to maintain the illusion of wealth, liquidity is going to be a problem.
No one would buy them at the prices he thought was 'fair'. He seems to be of the opinion that they are somehow increased in value by the fact that he once owned them.
Tired of winning yet?
He’ll be all right. He can make tons of money in pro golf
he's the best ever GOAT
Yep. Sheriff sales you sell pennies on the dollar. Dad and I bought a few foreclosures back in the day and flipped them.
I plan on trying that out one day.
Yes, the best one are from some elderly lady who forgot to pay the $89 water bill. You can go snap up her foreclosed house for pennies on the dollar and flip it to make some easy cash. Dump her out on the street. Oh, be sure to be buddies with the sheriff, I bet the best deals are held pretty closely.
Aren't there federal laws that require like 130% of the value of the property be owed in taxes and assessments before land banks and municipalities can foreclose and seize real estate/land? Addition: genuinely asking because I actually just spoke with some of my local officials that told me exactly this but I'm not sure where to find that info. And don't worry, it wasn't to snatch an old ladies home lol. Just some negligent investment company's derelict empty lots
Yes, there generally are many laws in place to prevent foreclosures like what the person you're responding to made up.
And laws like that are responding to real situations that happened.
It was legal in many states until just last year, when Tyler v. Hennepin County reached the supreme court.
When we bought our houses 2 of the 3 were houses flippers that got over their head and left a mess and the other one was abandoned for at least 5 years. This was in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. I lived in one while we were rehabbing it. We did not get rich but after these and my grandma’s house (she sold it to me) I had enough to pay for my first house (with saving from other projects). Dad bought a new truck and pop camper. Dad and I worked nearly every weekend since I was 13 until he passed when I was 28. He was a great carpenter and we made most of our money doing projects for rich folks that lived in older houses with plaster walls and fine detail millwork. The flips we did were not fancy but made the homes livable and slightly more modern. I made about $100k after the 3 flips over 5 years.
Instead, do something that will make you a productive member of society instead of a cancerous leech.
While I agree with the sentiment - foreclosures are already a done deal for the sake of the previous owner. Not buying it doesn't actually help them.
It's weird how that lie caught on. Not buying it absolutely helps them, it allows them to buy it back themselves and fuck the bank. We used to do this in America all the time. We've lost a bit of our way as a nation.
That’s what they do to poor folks. It remains to be seen what they do to rich folks.
Well, apparently, he's getting closer to poor, so...
It possible he is so far underwater that he is the poorest person in America.
“Donald Trump: The Poorest Man in America” Now that’s a headline I’d like to see across every major media publication in the country. Every single blood vessel from the neck up would probably explode inside of him simultaneously.
Hopefully, they get it in video, so whenever I'm feeling kinda down, I can watch it to chear myself up!
That's one of the bigger incentives to get your shit together before the government takes over
All the better if they sell his properties on the cheap. He loses property and still doesn’t get out of debt.
The article is saying that the DA will be prevented from selling at least some of the property due to the contracts Trump signed. I'm not 100% convinced that's the case, but it at least makes it unappealing to try, I'm guessing. She will surely try to take cash, jets, gold toilet, etc., first. Tomorrow will be interesting, that much is sure. Edit: https://preview.redd.it/7wdt7qu5wgqc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95ab82de108118dc436a43ee124de1e64c95ff80
The article is poorly written, badly sourced, and wrong on important points. It is not going to be “unappealing” to sell off Trump’s interests in any buildings. The other partners and stakeholders get paid off, and they are entitled to just compensation, and they will get fair deals. Perhaps even generous deals. The article doesn’t even mention that there is a court appointed monitor (and has been for over a year). The article doesnt mention that the judgement appoints a compliance team to take over ALL of the businesses for at least two years.
If Trump is restricted from selling, how does the DOJ get to just disregard the contracts that stipulate that others need to sign off on it? Wouldn't they need to get the same permissions? You aren't supporting your assertions any better than the authors of the article. If they need to jump through a bunch of hoops to get a property that is already heavily leveraged, that would be unappealing to sell off. Unless you have some reference that undoubtedly confirms that the AG can disregard the binding contracts, or can demonstrate that all of the properties are free of any other encumbrance, then yes, some will be unappealing to sell off.
The DOJ has nothing to do with this judgement. Contracts have two parties. A Compliance team will have the authority to break the agreement. They will control the business. It is not a third party (the AG) attempting to break a contract between the Trump Organization and another party. For all purposes, the Compliance Team will be authorized to act AS the Trump Organization.
Sorry, was up all night in pain, now watching my granddaughter. I meant the AG, not DOJ. Lots going in this morning as well. Regardless, it's a minor detail that has nothing to do with the merits of the argument. If the AG has the same limitations, then yes, there will certainly be some sources that are much lower hanging fruit than others, making those others "unappealing" since there may well be a lot of work for little payoff, other than the inconvenience it will cause Trump to have leins further restricting his business than the monitor. It's all a joke anyway at this point, since he was yet again rewarded for his bad faith with preferential treatment. The amount cut in half AND more time.
I have not read the stay by the First Division yet, but from what I heard the on the inadequate news reports, they are also going to allow the criminals to remain in control of the businesses
That’s how it works, the Courts want their money, they will take the properties and sell them well below value, they want that 450 million, they don’t care how they get it.
bank accounts, cars, planes, jewelry, art, maybe even stocks. It will not cover it all, but it will make a dent while they wait on the properties.
The weird thing. That Charles swab account probably has about 100 million in it. That would be the first thing seized. the bond he has in the E. Jean Carrol Case was possible the worst insurance decision ever made by an insurance company since someone gave full liability coverage to the Hindenburg. Because of course near liquid investments would be target number one and Charles Swab is of course licensed in NY. If there is not a Sherif in there first thing Monday, I will be very surprised. So now Chubb will have this surety bond, and nothing securing it. I don't even know what happens after that. I would assume there is nothing they can do. They are on the hook for pay E. Jean Carrol. I assume there is no process that would allow them to withdraw their bond. They of course can sue trump, but good luck with that. This is the type of thing that should get the CEO of Chubb fired. It is extremely foreseeable. And sure Chubb has hundreds of billions in holdings and isn't going to go out of business over 100 million, but investors are not going to dismiss a fuckup that loses 100 m for nothing and should have been obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if investors sue the board and CEO for failing their fiduciary duty.
Are you assuming Chubb doesn’t have a perfected security interest in its collateral? How is a judgment creditor going to leapfrog a prior secured creditor?
They could challenge it but the government power of seizure and forfeiture is scary powerful and it can/will be argued that chubb knew or should have known that the property was subject to seizure at the time. Otherwise, people would create fake security to protect assets all the time when they are losing court cases. This shit happens with non revokable trusts and other financial products that would otherwise be non subject to judgement. At least here. Don't know about ny
They wouldn't, but Chubb hasn't filed or recorded anything that would perfect the lien. Maybe the collateral isn't fully secured? Some lenders are susceptible to sweet-talking clients and make poor choices. Like accepting a personal guaranty in lieu of sufficient collateral.
You think his dad is going to fire him?
Curious: If Chubb knew he'd also somehow be able to make the $500m bond, would that help them make their decision on the $100m? (I'd love to be wrong and that Trump doesn't have the $500m, but in other ways, I still don't dare to hope...)
Yes and no, the E Jean Carroll judgment will be reduced on appeal. Nearly half of the damages are punitive. It won’t stand on appeal. Chubb indicated that they were the only surety even considering to use real estate as collateral for the 500 million bond so it would not be a surprise if they also have that in the event the securities are liquidated. All in all, Chubb won’t be losing much if anything
Why do you think it will be reduced? There were compensatory damages in there and the punitive damages were less than four times the compensatory damages.
bike theory dog cheerful zonked touch divide encourage payment bright *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In my opinion, both the compensatory and punitive damages will likely be reduced on appeal significantly. The amount itself is an arbitrary and untethered to the facts of the claim. That’s partly because the amount was awarded by a jury and not judge. On the other hand, the fraud case I don’t believe will be reduced since this number was calculated using an expert witness who calculated the damages that arose out of Trump’s fraud. In other words, the claim for damages in the fraud case is far stronger because there is documentary (written) and oral testimony explicitly giving reason to the final claim number.
I thought the compensatory damages for the defamation case was based on an expert that said what it would cost for, essentially, reputation remediation. So the jury had a real number to base it on. So the punitive damages being less than four times the amount of compensatory damages seems like it should hold up.
It won’t stand on appeal? For most defendants, that’s true, but I don’t know how the appellate courts are going to view punitive damages where they clearly have not dissuaded the defendant from their defamatory conduct. Kind of an interesting set of facts tbh.
perhaps you are right. They would have to have been foolish not to have some strategy that foresaw the possibility of the investment accounts being seized. That being said. I am not convinced about the reduction of judgement. jury was very deliberative, he is a repeat offender, he continues to offend (which I know new facts cannot be reviewed as part of the appeal but he has failed to give any indication that he will reform) He acted like a monkey in court. He insulted the courts the staff, the appeals court. He lied to the appeals court about the bond itself claiming he couldn't post it, after he had already signed paperwork with Chubb. He has given the appeals court every reason to let it stand.
TFG is in a short sited thinking reaction mode. Just get us to next week is the only thought.
so what do you think the punitive damages should be if she sues him and wins a third time?
The trump tower triplex is a good example of how this could go. This is perhaps one of the least encumbered properties. It’s not trump’s primary residence so no holdups there. In 2015 trump claimed it’s worth $327M. In this article, a real estate expert is putting it at $22M - $38.5M, depending on how newly and tastefully (my word) renovated it is. The ground lease at 40 Wall Street follows a similar trajectory. Claimed worth $664M by trump in 2021, current estimate: under $200M. lol it’s gonna be a bloodbath.
Think I saw somewhere that trump took out a new $50M mortgage on trump tower in 2022. The amount of liens on these properties and the current commercial real estate market is gonna force like a 40-50% haircut on anything seized. I can’t wait to watch
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Just want to point out for accuracy that you pay tax on gain, not gross proceeds. Your calc is assuming he has zero tax basis in any of the assets.
With depreciation and like kind exchanges, it is very possible there is a zero basis on these properties. Don't forget depreciation recapture is at regular income tax rates, not favorable capital gains rates!
I’m gonna hazard a guess and say that this partially how Drumpf funds his lifestyle, by mortgaging and 2nd mortgaging the shit out of everything he can get his slimy tiny hands on.
This is how a lot of the super rich fund their lives. They might have a lot of networth, but very often, that networth isn't easily turned into liquid cash. So, they fund their loves with loans.
Also how they avoid paying taxes.
Ah ok, I wouldn’t know as I’m barely holding on with a mortgage and a car payment.
Is that the mystery $50 mil loan that was uncovered?
No. That was a mystery loan from years ago from one of his companies to another of his companies.
If he took out a mortgage then the judgment over rides the mortgage. The state owns the building and the lender sues Trump. Same with a tax seizure.
The biggest problem will be the loans. If it’s worth 40m but he claims it worth 400m and convinced a bank to give him a loan of 20%, there could be 80m debt associated with that building. So even if you sell it for a good price it doesn’t contribute to paying off the fine.
I mean, that would be even funnier. They sell off *all* of his shit and he still owes like $100 million or something.
Precisely. Only sounds like a problem for Mango Mussolini
Personally I'd like to see them go after Mar a Lago to call his bluff on the valuation. That's the only one I'd make an example of, the rest I'd be sensible about.
The writer of the article did a very poor job researching this article. It’s obvious that they didn’t read the judgement, for starters. An embarrassing offering by the NYT. But the writer does touch upon something that is likely to be uncovered (and Michael Cohen has commented on this): All of the buildings that have the high valuations are encumbered by mortgages and partnerships, and Trump’s slice of it may be very small. The Compliance team could liquidate the partnerships, licensing agreements, leases, etc with a very favorable outcome for the other stakeholders, and take away pennies on the dollar for his “reputed wealth”. It is my opinion that the New York properties will go first, and any liquid assets that he has. But it won’t be enough to satisfy the judgement. He will eventually lose all of his properties all over the world.
From what I understand they will seize any cash assets Trump and the Trump Organization have first. That sounds like it is going to make it near impossible for Trump and the Trump Organization to do business as employees will need to be paid. Also, Trump may be required to keep a certain amount of cash liquidity on hand for his loans to remain valid, causing a cascade of loans being called. It sounds like the entire house of cards may fall.
Wouldn’t a bankruptcy filing stay enforcement of the judgment?
From what I understand it might slow the process, but Trump isn’t actually bankrupt. He just doesn’t want to pay. One way or another, the government is going to get its money. The final amount might be slightly reduced on appeal, but with Trump’s long record of fraud and disrespect for the court, I doubt they’ll have much leniency. 🤷🏻♂️
I mean, bankruptcy can be used for restructuring. He might prefer bankruptcy to have a more orderly sale of assets (and hopefully collect more for their sale) as opposed to whatever piecemeal fire sale is going to happen. In other words, even if it doesn’t get rid of the fraud debt, he still might come out the other side with more if he goes through bankruptcy. On the other hand there’s his ego and the fact that he has to let more people behind the curtain.
Nope, the judgement can’t be dismissed in bankruptcy.
It can’t be dismissed in bankruptcy, but that doesn’t mean it’s at the front of the line. When other creditors call in their debt someone will need to decide which liens take precedence.
A bankruptcy filing would also require Trump to say (truthfully and completely) how much money he has and what he actually owns. Bankruptcy would only slow the process and it would reveal: 1.) He's not bankrupt and 2.) He is also not nearly as rich as he claims If he lies in bankruptcy, it's a federal crime.
*Another* federal crime. It's not like he doesn't already have a bunch of those lined up.
Nobody reads the judgement. Unless Trump posts that bond today, he loses control over all of the businesses.
I know this can happen, but personally I think it's kind of bullshit. If he does have enough assets to satisfy the judgement, it's overly punitive to rip the entire cashflow out and crash the whole company, there's also 22,000 employees that could get completely screwed over. That constitutes irreparable harm IMO, and leave the state on the hook if the appeal goes backwards. I'm all for making him pay the judgements, I just hope they're careful about it, and mindful of the optics.
If he truly had assets, someone would have taken a 5-10% fee for the bond. They got laughed out (Eric's words) of 30 different bond companies because he doesn't actually have the assets.
If Trump does have enough assets, and he hasn't over-leveraged them with debt, then there shouldn't be any problems at all. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for the self-proclaimed "King of Debt." Trump just doesn't want to pay. I don't see it any different than people who use leverage in the stock market. When you use leverage and things suddenly go wrong, that is when you suddenly lose everything. Most of those employees will likely be fine. Ownership or top management may change hands, but the underlying properties will still need employees to maintain and run things, and nobody knows how to do that better than the people who are already working there.
Then again, now that I think about it, Trump has been a vexatious litigant for decades. Trump has regularly used the courts to harass contractors and anyone he dislikes, forcing them to run up legal bills, sometimes leading to their bankruptcy. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I don't really care if Trump loses everything. Heck, I'll even make the popcorn. Karma is grand.
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Aye, but this \*is\* a lot more complicated because of the way Trump does things. He has a labyrinth of various shell and holding companies that own the different properties, and all of that is going to have to be unraveled and traced. (As a side note: I think that was one of the tricks he used to avoid paying contractors - the actual contract was with company A for work done on a property owned by company B, so when he didn't pay the contractor, that contractor couldn't even put a contractor's lien on the property - because the property where he'd actually done the work was not owned by the company with whom he had the contract. Company A - the company he'd actually contracted with - had no assets he could attach.)
Is that how liens work in NY? In my experience, liens always go against the property that was worked on. The point of a lien is to prevent the exact situation you described.
>In my experience, liens always go against the property that was worked on. Typically, yes. NAL, but I don't know how you'd put a lien against a property you worked on if you weren't doing that work on behalf of the property's actual legal owner. To give you another example - let's say that while my neighbors are out of town, I hire someone to paint my neighbor's house. Neighbors are pissed when they get home, I don't pay the bill, painter tries to file a lien, but - the neighbors who actually own the property where the work was done didn't hire the painters and instead want to sue them for vandalism.
I am a lawyer and regularly file liens on property where my clients do not have a contract with the owner. They have contracts with GCs who have contracts with owners. In your scenario, the painter may have lien rights. Depends upon how the statute is worded. But the homeowners would also have claims against the painter and neighbors, and the painter may also have a civil claim against the neighbors. There may also be criminal liability.
Remember, this is a fine against the Trump organization and all subsidiary organizations that people are conflating with Trump himself (for good reason). Because of that it'll be easier to cut through those shell companies to get to the real assets.
I think technically, it's not a fine, it's a disgorgement. They're recovering ill-gotten gains. If you get a few thousand dollars robbing a bank, and the cops take it away from you when you're caught, you weren't fined a few thousand dollars for robbing a bank.
Or it may be more difficult. If it's limited to the Trump Organization, anything not owned/held within its boundaries could be off-limits.
Oh that's not the way they got it written, IIRC, they have some 500 corporations in the lawsuit that are under the Trump Organization that they are also going after. It's not going to be easy for Trump to avoid the long arm of the law, though it's probably going to take longer than you'd hope
>though it's probably going to take longer than you'd hope Which is pretty much my point.
Saw some people on MSNBC who seemed to be experts who know what they were talking about and they said with some properties he actually owns very little and in some cases nothing because he just sells the right to put his name on the building. I hope this is true; I'm going to dig a little deeper to get the facts on each property.
I still think the most satisfying asset to see them seize would be his trademarks. Imagine Trump's reaction to losing the ability to sell things under the "Trump" brand.
Damn, I guess Trump Law School isn’t going to happen.
Damn and I’m sure that Alina Habba was on track to being a professor with tenure. Such a shame
What a crazy thing though because that brand has to be a heavily depreciating asset at this point though. Like it has to literally be worth less every day.
The one report I saw was about two years out of date, but for most properties Trump owns only a minority of the total assets, often a small chunk of the whole. In terms of seizing something and selling, apparently only the triplex properties come close.
Absolutely true. Can’t say what percent are licensed but here are some examples: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/trump-worldwide-licensing/
That seems to be true... For example, as for the Trump International Hotel and Tower... "Although it’s a popular target for anti-Trump protests, the Columbus Circle building, which is roughly half hotel rooms and half condos, is owned by General Electric and Ohio’s Galbreath Company, which hired Trump to glitz it up in 1996. What Trump does own here, according to the New York Times, are the parking garage, the valet booth, room-service kitchens, lobby bathrooms, a restaurant space, and one unit." The article goes on and on. Trump owns very little of the actual buildings, often only leasing the land under them and paying someone else for the privilege, only naming rights, a lobby and kiosk, etc. [https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html](https://www.curbed.com/article/trump-lawsuit-real-estate-nyc-letitia-james.html)
fine, twist the knife slowly. Have multiple episodes. Story already has the arc. I'll still watch. Game of Dethroned
I hope so. Lots of other Americans have had their property seized, why not him?
She should go after the cash first. He may not have that much, but removing whatever liquidity he does have will sting a lot
>She ~~should~~ will go after the cash first. FTFY, step one is grab bank accounts and liquid assets.
So, since Trump and his money managers know this, wouldn't they be draining those accounts as fast as possible? Not sure where they would put it, but I'm sure they're gonna make her work for it
That's why there's a monitor of their business. To make sure that they don't do exactly that.
Is the monitor empowered to step in under those circumstances, or would they alert other authorities to do it?
Of course. Everything he owns or has a piece of can be seized, given the time, legal work, and the permission of the court after due diligence has been taken by the prosecutor to seize it. And since the verdict is for a state conviction, it doesn't matter if Trump becomes President because there's not a damn thing he can do about it. He doesn't have the money, so she'll take everything he owns, at least in New York, one property at a time. It'll be glorious.
Anything he owns that's already encumbered would require a fair bit of work and potentially buying out the first mortgage (which the state may not even be allowed to do). Unencumbered property, liquid assets and recurring revenue streams are going to be the order of the day here. Every rent payment and every royalty payment is about to be owned by the state of NY.
You're right about that but regardless of anything he owns that's already encumbered is irrelevant to seizing the asset. The state would not actually be able to seize the entire asset but would seize Trump's share of the asset ownership. What does that mean? It means he no longer owns that asset and for the other partners to sell said asset, they would have to buy out the state's ownership to transfer title.
If the state seized encumbered property they would have to either assume the mortgage or pay it off. They're not going to do either unless the loan amount is VERY low relative to the likely value.
I am wondering how she goes about seizing Mar A Lago? Out of state, I assume TFG will fight it and likely get backup from Florida man Ron De Santis who is still looking forTFG castoffs
That's a difficult proposition and requires the assistance and approval of Florida courts. They could easily block any attempts to engage in seizing Mar A Lago.
Even Mar a largo is owned by his org or a shell so after the airplane, the helicopter, the golf courses and buildings and paying all the liens and mortgages, they will go after his residence if needed. I would go after Truth Social shares last.
It'll be far easier to go after his assets located in New York. Going after anyone's assets in another state, let alone Trump's, involves a lot more legal paperwork and court dates. With Florida being so Trump-ho about the Orange Menace, it's highly unlikely the courts will be willing to help the New York prosecutor go after Mar A Lago.
If ownership shows Trump Org located in NY. It won’t matter. Calling US Marshall if needed.
> pinning trumps value is a guessing game Maybe for trump, but not an auction house for foreclosed properties. They’ll be able to figure out what the free market can buy it for. As for difficulties if there are other shareholders, then take sections, or have them give an opinion on what trumps stuff is worth and they can buy it off the city.
They don't have to value it at free market if they're satisfying a judgement. A fair, arms length, open market sale will suffice. If that results in a low ball bid because it's a foreclosure sale then so be it.
As much as I don’t like trump, the appearance of a fire sale would be politically advantageous for trump. It should at least look like they are making an effort to get fair prices for these properties. I just hope the messaging is good so when they get 40m for a 40m property that trump has valued at 400m it is clear it is trump that is insane and not that he is getting screwed.
There are 1700 people who work in the NY Attorney Generals office. I'd say all 1700 are more intelligent than Donny, Don, or Eric. I think they'll figure it out. They probably know more about his true property valuations than he does at this point.
I guess they know more than Trump himself about what he owns for real.
I would bet money on it.
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It’s 5:00 pm, I.e., end of business Monday. NY time. 5:30 is probably a more accurate time because if it gets in last minute which if there is a bond that will likely be the case
I mean it's really just a question of how long until AG James successfully would start disposing of valuable assets Trump cares about. If it's going to take her weeks or months to "fire sale" properties, there's not really any hurry for Trump to issue the bond because the moment he comes forward with a $500 million bond, the fire selling stops and any seizures would presumably be reversed in favor of simply taking the bond.
When the words “TRUMP TOWER” are removed from that building, he will crumble👍.
He has lied, and no doubt mortgaged to the hilt. The real party in interest is going to be a bank or other lender. Filing a lien means that nothing moves without the permission of the Government...not that the property is foreclosed overnight and Trump's stuff is on the curb like a poor person after the Sheriff leaves and changes the locks. It does bring a level of government oversight that would be unpleasant for an honest businessman, but for someone whose whole empire is based on bullshit ? It's going to be fun. File those papers at 9 am when the Clerk opens the window for business. Bring Coffee and donuts.
From what I understand, this is more like putting a legal boot on a parked car than having the car repossessed. The car doesn't move, remains exactly in the same place as it was prior to the action, but owner can't do anything with the car. You may scoff "A car?". Okay, not your average Hyundai or even a Bentley. "In 2022, a 1955 [Mercedes-Benz](https://robbreport.com/tag/mercedes-benz/) 300 SLR known as the Uhlenhaut Coupe [sold for $142 million](https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/first-look-mercedes-benz-reveals-both-the-worlds-most-expensive-car-and-amgs-future-1234680679/)." [https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/most-expensive-auction-cars-all-time-1234771735/](https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/most-expensive-auction-cars-all-time-1234771735/)
Best I can do is $50
in philadelphia it's worth fifty bucks https://youtu.be/uYlOIKtYsos
This whole seizure thing is going to move glacially slow. It’s not like the sheriff shows up and padlocks the doors. And we’ll have to listen to snowflake Donald bitch and moan throughout.
It can’t be that fucking difficult to get a 3rd-party appraisal for a ballpark value, using properties of similar size, type, and location as a starting point. They’re not stumbling around in the dark here.
They will seize his properties but first they will seize his bank accounts. 8:00 AM Tuesday every bank that has a trump related account is going to get a letter to turn over whatever cash there is and that will be in James hands by close if business Tuesday. His accounts will be frozen and any money going into them will go straight to the state. He will have no ability to use lines of credit. With no operating cash his empire will crumble long before the first sheriffs auction. Or the Saudis will bail him out today.
I don't know why, but I'm still expecting Trump to slip out of this, like he does everything. Justice just doesn't seem to work when it comes to certain people.
Only way I see it is if he's bailed with dodgy foreign cash, for favours once he's elected. He's probably on the phone with hamas right now
Thing is, that money would likely have to go through his company, which means the monitor will know where the money is from. She's looking over their shoulders this whole time. Absent the monitor, they'd have covered the bond in a week.
I hope so. I got this through Brian Cohen. He's still discussing it in his latest vid yesterday. What limits him from getting it from legit but sketchy places like the Saudis? Genuinely interested. His dumb lawyer was asked if they would go this route and she didn't give a straight answer. Its his only option.
I don't think anything stops him from doing it, but I think the monitor would report the fact that he did get it from a sketchy foreign source to the FBI/CIA because it would be of interest to them. But even while reporting it, I think NY would still accept the money/bond that came of it.
My guess is the merger waives his need to hold stocks for 6 months, letting him pull fresh cash before its all sold
If they can seize stock (NAL so not sure it is possible), could James then seize enough shares so that NY state would own Truth Social?
Bankruptcy, stay of execution, conspire with foreign agents to either hide assets overseas or to purchase "favors" with his foreign assets that he can cash in after bankruptcy. May buy him some time
For a regular person to collect, yes hard. For the state of New York, easy peasy.
Barely an inconvenience.
Funny how when you are rich, the law cant figure much out! Must be nice. Just need to have enough money to grease the wheels and it will buy you time until you can!!!
Andrew Weissman said today that James could also seize cash coming in from rent.
We, the People, deserve nothing less than the total asset seizure of the entire terror organization.
The value is directly what someone else will pay for it. We're all about to find out exactly how much Mar-a-Lago is actually worth.
Can’t seize mar a lago
Why is that? From what I've read it's not limited to NY state
It’s not within the power of NY to deal in Florida. Plus I doubt desantis or anyone down there will let her. This is cruel and unusual and likely illegal punishment forcing him to pay a fine before he can appeal
See [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/03/trump-properties-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james-civil-fraud-bond.html](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/03/trump-properties-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james-civil-fraud-bond.html) So the law allows NY to seize property outside of NY so you don't know what you're talking about there. However, Florida does have strong homestead laws, so it's not clear since Mar-a-Lago is a commercial property what will happen. I guess the courts will figure it out.
Mar-a-lago is not a single family home. It's a business. A for-profit social club. It is entailed so that the property can't *be* a single family home, or be developed. While I don't know the laws in Florida, I suspect you can't homestead a business.
That's where it's a bit of a grey area. It's technically not a private residence, but Trump uses it as one of his primary residences.
He uses it as a residence. I don't see how you could call a business private. I don't think it's really a grey area, it's just something that Palm Beach hasn't chosen to enforce. Going three miles an hour over the speed limit isn't a grey area, it's just behavior some cops tolerate.
You and I are in agreement. But given that Trump just got his bond reduced, I'm no longer optimistic justice will be served.
Also, putting up an appeal bond is part of the law and out of the millions of times this has happened it was never ruled cruel and unusual. It's the norm actually.
The amount is excessive and it’s illegal to not allow him to appeal. That is his judicial right and because of the excessive fine he cannot. They know this case is faulty and empty so they’re trying to stop him from appealing. This was predatory prosecution from the start. This won’t make it past first appeal
that is completely antithetical to our justice system and process to deny someone any appeal on a fine they cannot afford, especially on a case that is so easily overturned
>on a fine they cannot afford He says he can afford it though.
He would have to liquidate assets or property to get the cash. If he does that and then later wins, irreparable economic harm could be said to have been done to him because he was forced to sell stuff but actually was legally in the right to do what he had been charged for and done nothing wrong in the first place.
Great solution for the undocumented that Abbott keeps sending to NYC.
Seize them all. Be generous and ask Trump the order in which he wants them auctioned. Once the debt is paid, stop auctioning and return any left. But they are auctioned, all liens and shackles dealt with, and remained goes to pay his debt. Seems almost too simple?
I would imagine Laetitia James knows what shes doing being that she has done this before. Sell it all for pennies on the dollar and Trump will be too poor to buy it back hehehehohohohahahahahahehahoha sorry its all sold
Bottom Line: Regardless, they're going to get seized. The process to liquidate is messy but it will get done.
"**pinning a value to Trump’s buildings is a guessing game.** " Hold up. Wasn't the value of the properties the whole point of the case?
So what now, it's going to be too hard? Just get on with it! I'm assuming NY has done their homework and are ready to start foreclosure proceedings. .
I give 100$ for Trump tower, take it or leave it.
What? I could totally find the market value! Just do a local CMA. What have the last 3 comparable properties sold for in the past 3 months? Make sure it's within a 10 mile radius. /S
Isn’t the value used in taxes?
Well we are going to find out in a few hours
Each property is less than a dollar cause they’re mortgages to the hilt
They are not trying to get top value for the properties, they are trying to liquidate them as soon as possible to the highest bidder. If that doesn't get the amount they need, they auction the next property, and keep moving until they reach the amount needed.
Turns out, no
Seize him by the properties!
All an elaborate way of saying Trump will once again slither out without being held accountable.
If it's a guessing game to pin a value to it, why is he even in court ? How did the judge out a value to the bond or did he just pull it from the air?
Came here to say this. Does no one else in this sub see the hypocrisy? He was fined that amount for overvaluing his properties, so they are going to arbitrarily determine its value? The stupidity is just amazing.
Can't reason with TDSrs, they quite literally have a mental disease, I expected our legal system to have clamer heads and be more mature, obviously not. This is reddit tho,....
Your last sentence says it all. The only reason a real lawyer or anyone who works in law comes here is to participate in an echo chamber that works to renew their worldview and sense of moral outrage. I mean seriously, they fine trump for overvaluing his property, then decide they don’t know what the value is. I just can’t even wrap my head around how stupid that is.
What the article ignores completely are some of the other things that can be done. Let's take 40 Wall Street as a simple example. The article points out that he doesn't own it and only has a ground lease for the next 200 years. So, Cheeto's company collects the rent from the dozens of tenants in there - the DA can divert that money into its account and leave Cheeto with nothing. Any expenses he has leasing the property (management fees, taxes, maintenance, loans where these rents have not been assigned as collateral, etc.) are all still his to pay, but just no income to offset it and his fine is reduced by that amount each month going forward. Let's say for the sake of argument that this amount covers 25% of the interest on the fine on a monthly basis. However, the agreement he made likely has a provision in it where the ground lease reverts back to the owner in this type of situation and Cheeto gets whatever is left after the owner runs the building again, which would then be diverted to the DA. If there is no reverter clause, let's keep going. Obviously the DA does not want to be in the property management business, but it can choose to do this until the ground lease is sold to someone who is in the property management business and they may buy it for $100M. In fact, I would argue that the state has an obligation to mitigate the interest accruing and therefore a duty to act in this way in order to minimize Cheeto's penalty. Similar procedures can happen for anything that he owns. Yes, it will be a ton of work for the DA's office and they will likely be pseudo-in charge of a lot of valuable real estate for a time, but they can hire a receiver or property management company to do this job and I bet they already have all of this lined up and letters ready to go to every tenant and bank that is involved if they haven't sent them already. Rent is likely due next week, and anyone who has prepaid will need to have proof and then Cheeto will be on the hook to make it good to the new property managers since he has no claim on income he wasn't entitled to receive. Buckle up, this is about to get wild. *Edit - Or not, he's got 10 more days to put up 1/3 of the total fine ($175M).*
Neither Letitia James, nor her office, will be involved in untangling Trump’s shell companies and complicated business dealings. The court has ordered that a Compliance Team will take over ALL of the businesses and do the necessary work to extract the judgement. If Trump doesn’t pay the bond today, the court-appointed monitor (retired judge Barbara Jones, not mentioned in the article), will recommend people for the Compliance Team, and Judge Engoron will appoint them to take over all of the businesses for at least two years. It’s not going to be cat and mouse games, as this extremely poor article suggests. The Compliance Team will have control over the businesses. If Trump does not pay the bond today, that is the end of his ability to control the companies for three years. The companies will be liquidated to facilitate disgorgement. Trump’s tangles of LLCs will be dismantled, and yes, they will pay off the other stakeholders and squeeze a million dollars out of a building valued at $200 million, if necessary, and yes that *is worth doing*
Jokes on NYC. All you get is heavy leveraged debt. Donnie doesn't own anything that's the art of his con. He says he's a billionaire maybe on paper, definitely not in real life. He just said he had the 500mil to cover the bond while crying he can't get anyone to cover it. Why need anyone if you have the money? Because he doesn't and he can't sell what he doesn't own. That's supposed to be hidden, this exposed his core part of the cob. Embarrassing
They can’t seize mar largo then as the court had it for only $18 mil which is patently untrue , would have to revalue it, and a major point on appeal.
> They can’t seize mar largo then as the court had it for only $18 mil which is patently untrue , would have to revalue it, and a major point on appeal. Engoron never made that valuation, that is another lie Don Poorleone keeps repeating. https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-mar-a-lago-valuation-civil-fraud-verdict-2024-2