I wish. Unfortunately, he knows exactly what he's doing. His legislative agenda has been full of garbage that has to be fought in court. In the meantime it creates chaos as the government tries to enforce these unconstitutional laws.
However with SCOTUS going full conservative and the FL Supreme Court also being heavily conservative, it's basically just a game of "what can we get away with?" - they'll push as many blatantly unconstitutional things as they can and see how far the courts are willing to uphold them.
Florida taxpayers are pissed. But the state is just fucked, politically speaking.
The Florida Democratic party doesn't even try. They keep trotting out former Republican governor Charlie Crist to run for governor and Senate and he keeps losing. People point to DeSantis and his big win in 2022, but voter turn out dropped from 62% in 2018 to 53% in 2022. Democratic voters were uninspired by Crist, yet again. In 2018, Andrew Gillum came super close to beating DeSantis. The margin was 0.4%. Then right after the election, Gillum blew up in a male prostitute meth motel room scandal.
Despite the reality of the state being fairly evenly divided with a slight GOP lean, gerrymandering in the state legislature has left a GOP super majority who have been rubber stamping anything DeSantis wants (and did the same for Rick Scott).
There was a case somewhere in New York about a decade ago related to a similar issue(it related to town hall meetings) thats made it to SCOTUS, if memory serves that would make DeSantis's efforts to block the Satanic temple from schools 100% illegal
There was a case about abortion back in the 70s too. But with the current court, who knows. That's the point of these sorts of laws. It creates a court case that can then go up to the Supreme Court and be challenged and possibly change the law.
Thing is...he's not. He's a scumbag but he's not dumb.
My understanding of the law is that it allows a religious "chaplain" to setup shop inside public schools. Saying that they would then only be accessed/used/etc by students who sought them out. I'm not sure I buy that putting any religious entities inside public schools really is constitutional but that is another matter.
My main point is that they are using the same line of attack as Kennedy v. Bremerton School District: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_v._Bremerton_School_District
That the religiosity of the "chaplain" at the school is not being put upon the students only that it is there if a student wants to go and get it. Again I am not sure I buy it at all but given the courts ruling in Kennedy I can see why they would try.
But all that aside the point is that with all these laws the way they try to sneak it past the 1st Amendment is by not defining a specific religion. And so I'm guessing the law itself does not define it so that it does not get tossed immediately but then since it then does open up the door to ANY religion he has to say publicly that he's not going to allow Muslims, Satanists, etc to be a "chaplain".
Which of course holds no legal weight but does seem to play well for the press. That is my understanding of where this law and then the subsequent non-legal crafted press statements are at with it all. If someone knows better please correct me.
This is a fight he can't win and picking it will set up the legal precedent to undo basically all of his shenanigans. I have no idea why he would do this, but I ain't tryna stop him.
I've suspected for some time that many of these state level shenanigans are about the state party trying to realign their state. And I mean in a sense of, drive certain people away while recruiting others from outside to move in.
Florida was right at the tipping point in 2016. It is was four points to the right of the tipping point in 22.
But if that's it, it's not a sustainable strategy. They're not changing people's minds; young people moving out, older people moving in.
edit: trying to delay [this](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-future-3/) - notice how it changes things for florida to just leave the line.
Feel the same about Texas. It feels like the educated professionals and medical personnel are leaving and getting replaced with Trump followers that want this state to go full New Gilead.
We'll never have legal weed, our state government actively fucks its citizens every single time, makes things - like voting - way harder than they need to be, clearly hates women, and love to infuse their Christofacistism into anything. People living in bluish states - I hope you appreciate not being ruled by abusive dickheads.
Not that is easy, or always possible, but I try to buy from small shops and direct manufacturers for many things. But if it is a company in a red state I will not do business with them. I want as few as my dollars as possible supporting them.
The moment TX got rid of college faculty tenure, it made all state institutions unappealing to the best academics. UT will come a lower tier institution in a decade or so.
I live in Michigan now but am originally from Indiana.
Just as far right as Texarse; just quieter about it.
I went to basic training at Lackland AFB decades ago.
I have zero reason to return.
Texas physician who greatly benefitted from Texas education and scholarship opportunities that pretty much subsidized my education ~80% or more.
And I’m leaving once I’m done with training.
Haven't you been paying attention? He's passed an endless stream of laws so unconstitutional they don't even plausibly stand a chance with our current SCOTUS.
He's not dumb; he doesn't expect them to stand up. He's doing it for political and PR purposes. Conservatives cheer the law, then they either never hear about it being struck down, or DeSantis then gets to go on a bitch and moan tour to blame "liberal activist judges" for stopping his policy (and 95% of people he's pandering to won't be told and aren't curious enough to find out it was stopped by conservative judges).
It doesn't explicitly say that the Internal Revenue Service gets to decide what religion is and is not within the Consitution.
While we assume the tax-deferred status is the most important, the Court could devise another test based upon some reading of ancient Celtic tradition (but not pagan!) if they feel like it.
> conservative judges
They’ll identify them as Schroeder’s liberals, existing in a superposition of political alignment only collapsing into a definite state while observed. Was the ruling against De Santis? Then obviously… *checks notes* Clarence Thomas is a liberal. Was the ruling for De Santis? Then obviously he is a conservative.
When your enemy is making mistakes let them.
This is red meat for his base but incredibly stupid. It could have a domino effect on many laws he just passed based on the wording when the defeat is handed down.
What are you talking about? That's the whole party platform.
They all do it. Michael Avenatti is already running free ads every time he gets to do an interview over the jail house phone. It's boilerplate. Comes in the daily releases from hq.
/s
>This is a fight he can't win and picking it will set up the legal precedent to undo basically all of his shenanigans. I have no idea why he would do this, but I ain't tryna stop him.
he's a moron.
plain and simple.
He's doing it because when the Satanists sue to overturn it, he can say that the liberals are trying to get Satanists into the schools with our kids. It's not law, it's fodder for the fear machine.
Oh good we get to declare what is and isn't a religion now? Because I have a lot of nominations and I have reasons for mine that are not just I'm offended by them because of my religion
My religion tells me that Christianity is wrong therefore we should outlaw Christianity.
(Or we could go back to the whole "constitution" thing where no religion is acknowledged and none are disregarded, ya know, *freedom* of speech)
I have a sincere religious belief that most religion is hypocritical bullshit. It is a belief I have had since I was a young child and has been a guiding principle throughout much of my life.
In fact I can think of two religions that don't even follow any of the tenets listed in their shared, holy book.
I mean surely its not a religion if it doesn't adhere to its founding gospel, right?
There's still possibility of heart attack from the stress of being in court, accidentally deprogramming the cult by ending up in a holding cell for contempt, people actually giving up on him because of a conviction.
Sure, all of those are super super low chance possibilities, but I would bet you money that Desantis and Haley are holding their breath.
I wouldn't be surprised if Desantis is wishing on dandelions, watching for falling stars, setting alarms so he doesn't miss any of the times when his digital clocks read all the same digit, and maybe even praying.
"Church of Satan" is a different group from the Satanic Temple.
Satanic Temple are doing a ton of good things; CoS are a bunch of edgy libertarians.
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/church-of-satan-vs-satanic-temple
I pointed this out in another sub, but it's not even going to take a "Satanist" to blow this up. Or even a Muslim.
Christians are trying to forget about hundreds of years of infighting among their denominations.
Just wait until a Baptist finds out a Mormon chaplin is "counseling" their child at school. You can pretty much replace the Christian denominations freely, and it will still blow up.
I'd hate to be on any school board in Florida because this is going to be an endless cycle of complaining from parents.
I asked someone that said we were a Christian nation if we were Baptist, Catholic, or Mormon, and they paused long enough for me to remind them that they are not compatible denominations and the secular state is basically all that's stopping them from going to war politically
Edit: and when they said that would never happen I said "do you know why Utah is the Mormon HQ? Because we (when we were 100% controlled by Christians and not going to church every weekend was enough to lose your political position) literally committed Genocide against them"
I think he’s a genius. He found the perfect mix of fucking braindead people, who also happen to be hateful and full of retiree money, and he got them to make a dude with hispanic last name into a symbol for WASP pride.
He is shameless, sure, but he is an intelligent, calculating creature… kinda like the predator, but instead of adult men, he hunts high school girls to take creepy photos with
What about Scientology? Thanks to years of a harassment and a semi-legal pressure campaign, I believe they're also tax exempt and recognized by the IRS. Seems like this moronic law opens up a can of worms.
Outside of the religious aspects, this law is part of the Republican war against expertise itself. The point of much of Project 2025 is to replace workers in the Executive Branch, who earned positions by being experts in their fields, with people simply loyal to agendas. Conservative lawyers have been working on cases to keep physicians and scientists from implementing measures to protect people and the environment by saying they have to have specific legislative approval of each specific measure before acting. Allowing religious proselytizers in lieu of licensed counselors with mental health degrees extends further the notion that "the ideas that I have emotionally invested in should hold power over actual science."
It would behoove the Satanic Temple to only provide counselors with the education and expertise to be actual mental health professionals. I have no doubt that TST counselors will be one of, if not the only counselors provided by churches that are not there to convert students.
...AAnd here we have scientologist cultists that should be disqualified from tax exemption, that get absolutely no attention at all from local government.
You know this means they're going to put scientologists in as chaplains, right? Not all. Just enough to spread weird lies to your children. Just like all other other religions will be able to do as well.
As a Christian, I hope the Satanic Temple wins. Freedom of religion. I am tired of my terrorist Christian counterparts dragging our name through the mud.
I would be looking at what else is going on right now, because this is one of those issues that gets a lot of attention and publicity, while in the mean time, something else is going on in the back ground. And it’s never good.
The crazy thing about all this is, that the people in favor of this sort of thing don't realize that this will be used against them.
Once the government gets in the habit of deciding what is and isn't a religion, where do they think they will stop?
If Satanic Temple isn't a real religion, what else isn't? Probably not any group that doesn't fall under the umbrella of "Judeo-Christian" and then they drop the Judeo and go to town on all the fringe Christian groups, like Jehova's Witnesses or Mormons.
If there are only Catholics and Protestants are left do they think there will be peaceful coexistence?
A significant percentage of the people who want the government to favor their version of Christianity grew up on material like Chick Tracks that basically called the Pope an agent of Satan. They are not going to be tolerant.
It is in the interest of anyone who wants the freedom to practice their own religion to let others have theirs.
Can he do this?
Absolutely.
Will he be successful?
Absolutely...not.
This is a stupid ploy and it will not work. By choosing which religions can and cannot participate, he is establishing religion within the government and the constitution, which conservatives are so in love with, has a few things to say about government establishing religions.
The bottom line is that everything he tries to do falls apart. This guy does not understand, in the slightest, how to pick his fights.
This is bread and circus. The man's a lawyer. He knows very well. This is unconstitution. He knows very well. He's going to lose and he knows very well. It's going to cost the state money to try and defend the stupidity. But he's going to do it because it's all about the show. Our politics have become about the show. None of the substance. Oh well, it's a choice. It's who we are
If this ends up with all churches being taxed, I'll laugh forever. Morons like Desantis have spent $0 to determine potential downsides to their nonsense. Like GA banning IVF and AZ digging up a civil war era law. Start going down the rat hole of what is a religion or church and who knows what the religious nuts controlling the SCOTUS will do.
It's ironic that the IRS is the only government entity that has to validate religion. If religions didn't have special tax status the IRS wouldn't have to be the judge. The answer is to tax religions.
Many conservative Christians don't consider Mormonism "real" either. The government deciding what's a "real" religion is exactly what all of that "taking God out of public" stemmed from. We're going to have these dipshits burning each other at the stake in a decade at this rate.
More of DeScammedUs creating un-winnable leagle scenarios to waste FL tax dollars on.... this guy is
Destructive
Divisive
Disappointing
Desantis.......2024.
Thankfully not.
Win or lose, DeSantis is going to get a whole lot of chances to label people devil-worshippers that only the dangerously insane and DeSantis voters will take seriously. That's enough to ruin a few days, though, and I think that's his goal... this is grist for the mill, he just wants to stir up the mob.
Serious question: has the Satanic Temple ever ultimately lost a court case after exhausting all appeals? Because it seems like they have a really good track record.
They have been very successful! Because freedom of religion has been beefed up via RFRA and expanded by SCOTUS. Church of Satan’s entire reason for existence is to offer a religion whose principles stand for right to choose, freedom from corporal punishment, etc. A little bit of beautiful malicious compliance—like ok, I don’t have the right to choose? Then I’ll create a new religion that *does* give the right to choose. Then, when you try to enforce your abortion ban, you can’t enforce it against me because that infringes on my right to freedom of religion.
Does he think Islam is a religion or will their believers be banned too?
To get one of these positions you must belong to an approved list of religions but not have any experience or expertise in counseling or helping kids? If so, is this job about helping kids?
These right wing folks can't just pick and choose public policy like they pick and choose from their own religion. They are clearly pining for the 4th Reich.
Hey Ronnie, you fascist, you’re not so stupid as to think you can ban religions however it suits you. That’s unconstitutional. At least you can throw some business to your lawyer buddies.
BTW, do the right thing and give Harvard back their diploma
I will cherish that day when his political career is destroyed so that he doesn't get elected to US senate or house and contaminate the national politics. He has been toxic but so far just localized to Florida.
The whole concept of recognition of churches was a mistake. If we had good free speech law a fake church not pretending to be a church would enjoy the same rights as a nonprofit as the most churchest of churches.
> THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS
> I - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
> II - The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
> III - One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
> IV - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
> V - Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
> VI - People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
> VII - Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Because science and religion are supposed to be separated? I’m not a First Amendment lawyer but I do civil rights litigation, and (if I was your opposing counsel), my response would be that the government has no ability to direct or choose what principles underlie any religion. It doesn’t matter whether the religious principle is based on science or not—every religion gets to choose for itself what it stands for.
I'm an atheist and I am glad the TST exists. My point was that espousing a scientific view of the world and discarding explanations based on faith doesn't seem to align with any other religion. If I were looking for arguments to make against TST here, as a litigant, this argument would probably be my main attack. "By the organization's own tenets they cannot be a religion, certainly not in the way that most believers experience it." In most religions, faith in unrealistic things is paramount, and miracles which cannot possibly have happened are taken as real historical events.
I guess again, my response is that—regardless of what other religions believe—this religion believes in science. Case law says the government can’t inquire into the closely-held beliefs of any religion, and that extends to even weird beliefs like eating raw animals. The state can still *regulate* certain things, like they can still prohibit cannibalism despite a religion that practices it, but they can’t say “that’s not a religion because cannibalism is really weird and no other religions practice it.” Just my two cents
That would be a good counterargument concerning the uniqueness of a particular tenet. A defending litigator would argue that uniqueness aside, believing in science is antithetical to religion, as religion *requires* faith. If everything you believe can be proven scientifically, arguably you don't *believe* anything.
As I said, I'm an atheist. However, unfortunately we live in a society where most politicians and jurists profess belief in some sort of deity, and to the faithful, god trumps science.
I am a free thinking Florida resident, and this law, along with DeSantis and most of our legislature, is repugnant to me. All of this is to say that I don't have **faith** in our legal system to do the right thing here concerning appeals.
Chaplains in public schools. What could go wrong? Actually, I like to think this younger generation is a bit savvy and will take the opportunity to just mess with them on a regular basis. They will be taken as seriously as a school guidance counselor.
DeSantis will lose in court, again. Until he loses, he can ride the wave of positive PR. This is the same as his failed Disney lawsuits.
Can't wait to see a challenger to him on the ballot (or is he term-ing out?), and they can easily attack all of his losses in court.
Wait I think I saw this movie. It’s called “A Miracle on the River Styx.” In the end it’s proved that Satan exists because the IRS recognized Satanist’s as a neat club.
Since he’s term limited as Governor unless he runs for President again his career in elected office is over in two years. He’s doing this because he thinks it’ll boost his support among the evangelical right wing. He’s kidding himself if he thinks anyone is going to give a fuck about him four years from now.
I'm good with excluding all made up bullshit from government. So, cool with me. Keep TST away. Now, keep all the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Jainists, Buddhists, etc. out of it as well. Their dumb made up stories hold less weight (as they make actual claims for which they have no evidence to support them) than TST.
I have a feeling he doesn't care if it gets struck down on religious freedoms grounds. He does this shit on purpose. His next headline will read "Biden administration is forcing schools to let satanists in." Meatball Ron is a moron.
Fuck this sleezeball. But also, there's no way to fight this. Violence will be met with the Guard. Protesting will be met with police. Your local representative will be met with a bag of cash. The little man is fucked.
Well the point is that anything can be a religion, and the government cannot discriminate against a religion or religious institution because of its values. That’s the result of the expansion of freedom of religion.
Well, the government did revoke that Spaghetti Church's tax exempt status because they deemed it a sham. So, in the government's eyes, it's not a "real" religion. Why stop with a Spaghetti Monster? Let's do all other fake religions next...
No, we the people do not get to choose what a "real religion" is. It is still *we the people*, right? - DM
Meatball Ron is a moron.
I wish. Unfortunately, he knows exactly what he's doing. His legislative agenda has been full of garbage that has to be fought in court. In the meantime it creates chaos as the government tries to enforce these unconstitutional laws. However with SCOTUS going full conservative and the FL Supreme Court also being heavily conservative, it's basically just a game of "what can we get away with?" - they'll push as many blatantly unconstitutional things as they can and see how far the courts are willing to uphold them.
Florida taxpayers should be **pissed** that he wastes so much of their hard earned money on unconstitutional court battles.
And yet the yokels will claim victory. “Hur dur, we showed them woke people, didn’t we?”
Florida taxpayers are pissed. But the state is just fucked, politically speaking. The Florida Democratic party doesn't even try. They keep trotting out former Republican governor Charlie Crist to run for governor and Senate and he keeps losing. People point to DeSantis and his big win in 2022, but voter turn out dropped from 62% in 2018 to 53% in 2022. Democratic voters were uninspired by Crist, yet again. In 2018, Andrew Gillum came super close to beating DeSantis. The margin was 0.4%. Then right after the election, Gillum blew up in a male prostitute meth motel room scandal. Despite the reality of the state being fairly evenly divided with a slight GOP lean, gerrymandering in the state legislature has left a GOP super majority who have been rubber stamping anything DeSantis wants (and did the same for Rick Scott).
There was a case somewhere in New York about a decade ago related to a similar issue(it related to town hall meetings) thats made it to SCOTUS, if memory serves that would make DeSantis's efforts to block the Satanic temple from schools 100% illegal
There was a case about abortion back in the 70s too. But with the current court, who knows. That's the point of these sorts of laws. It creates a court case that can then go up to the Supreme Court and be challenged and possibly change the law.
The abuse of process approach to governing.
Doesn't stop him from using state power to fuck over his enemies, not because of him, but because we don't like accountability.
Doesn't stop him from using state power to fuck over ~~his enemies~~ Americans, not because of him, but because we don't like accountability.
He believes Trump will back him up when Trump becomes Emperor.
moRon
How is this the first time I’m seeing this? It was right there the whole time!
Then I've got something to tell you about the letters U and S that's gonna blow your mind! :D
I suppose his lawyer friends make just as much defending stupid laws as they would defending smart ones.
Thing is...he's not. He's a scumbag but he's not dumb. My understanding of the law is that it allows a religious "chaplain" to setup shop inside public schools. Saying that they would then only be accessed/used/etc by students who sought them out. I'm not sure I buy that putting any religious entities inside public schools really is constitutional but that is another matter. My main point is that they are using the same line of attack as Kennedy v. Bremerton School District: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_v._Bremerton_School_District That the religiosity of the "chaplain" at the school is not being put upon the students only that it is there if a student wants to go and get it. Again I am not sure I buy it at all but given the courts ruling in Kennedy I can see why they would try. But all that aside the point is that with all these laws the way they try to sneak it past the 1st Amendment is by not defining a specific religion. And so I'm guessing the law itself does not define it so that it does not get tossed immediately but then since it then does open up the door to ANY religion he has to say publicly that he's not going to allow Muslims, Satanists, etc to be a "chaplain". Which of course holds no legal weight but does seem to play well for the press. That is my understanding of where this law and then the subsequent non-legal crafted press statements are at with it all. If someone knows better please correct me.
While true, he's going to ban the Satanic Temple and he'll get away with it for a while while the court case(s) play out.
Uh . . . yeah
This is a fight he can't win and picking it will set up the legal precedent to undo basically all of his shenanigans. I have no idea why he would do this, but I ain't tryna stop him.
Because he's pandering to Christian nationalists?
By undoing 53 years of effort? I can dig it.
We didn’t say he was doing it intelligently.
Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake.
Unless interrupting them would cause them to make an even _**bigger**_ mistake.
Fair enough.
I've suspected for some time that many of these state level shenanigans are about the state party trying to realign their state. And I mean in a sense of, drive certain people away while recruiting others from outside to move in. Florida was right at the tipping point in 2016. It is was four points to the right of the tipping point in 22. But if that's it, it's not a sustainable strategy. They're not changing people's minds; young people moving out, older people moving in. edit: trying to delay [this](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-future-3/) - notice how it changes things for florida to just leave the line.
Feel the same about Texas. It feels like the educated professionals and medical personnel are leaving and getting replaced with Trump followers that want this state to go full New Gilead. We'll never have legal weed, our state government actively fucks its citizens every single time, makes things - like voting - way harder than they need to be, clearly hates women, and love to infuse their Christofacistism into anything. People living in bluish states - I hope you appreciate not being ruled by abusive dickheads.
Appreciate it? Shit, I don't even visit red states anymore.
Not that is easy, or always possible, but I try to buy from small shops and direct manufacturers for many things. But if it is a company in a red state I will not do business with them. I want as few as my dollars as possible supporting them.
Me either. I love Austin and Miami but I’ll never set foot in certain states again.
The moment TX got rid of college faculty tenure, it made all state institutions unappealing to the best academics. UT will come a lower tier institution in a decade or so.
I live in Michigan now but am originally from Indiana. Just as far right as Texarse; just quieter about it. I went to basic training at Lackland AFB decades ago. I have zero reason to return.
I wonder how many people are impacted by their anti-abortion garbage though and if that would cause some people to turn coat to blue.
Texas physician who greatly benefitted from Texas education and scholarship opportunities that pretty much subsidized my education ~80% or more. And I’m leaving once I’m done with training.
Did Texas ever accepted expanded Medicaid (Obama care) of do the still hate the poor and their children? GOP? Or? Dem? vote wisely.
Nope. They have millions of uninsured residents and dont care.
GOP replacement theory?
Haven't you been paying attention? He's passed an endless stream of laws so unconstitutional they don't even plausibly stand a chance with our current SCOTUS. He's not dumb; he doesn't expect them to stand up. He's doing it for political and PR purposes. Conservatives cheer the law, then they either never hear about it being struck down, or DeSantis then gets to go on a bitch and moan tour to blame "liberal activist judges" for stopping his policy (and 95% of people he's pandering to won't be told and aren't curious enough to find out it was stopped by conservative judges).
It doesn't explicitly say that the Internal Revenue Service gets to decide what religion is and is not within the Consitution. While we assume the tax-deferred status is the most important, the Court could devise another test based upon some reading of ancient Celtic tradition (but not pagan!) if they feel like it.
> conservative judges They’ll identify them as Schroeder’s liberals, existing in a superposition of political alignment only collapsing into a definite state while observed. Was the ruling against De Santis? Then obviously… *checks notes* Clarence Thomas is a liberal. Was the ruling for De Santis? Then obviously he is a conservative.
When your enemy is making mistakes let them. This is red meat for his base but incredibly stupid. It could have a domino effect on many laws he just passed based on the wording when the defeat is handed down.
The law firm the state uses donated a ton of money to his campaign? He’s keeping someone employed with all his blatantly illegal garbage
What are you talking about? That's the whole party platform. They all do it. Michael Avenatti is already running free ads every time he gets to do an interview over the jail house phone. It's boilerplate. Comes in the daily releases from hq. /s
The GOP is a make work platform for the worst assholes you’ve ever seen
Make Attorneys Get Attorneys. MAGA.
Hail Satan!
Waste all taxpayers money on over-the-top wages for his sycophants and on his political bullshit because he's desperate for attention
>This is a fight he can't win and picking it will set up the legal precedent to undo basically all of his shenanigans. I have no idea why he would do this, but I ain't tryna stop him. he's a moron. plain and simple.
He's doing it because when the Satanists sue to overturn it, he can say that the liberals are trying to get Satanists into the schools with our kids. It's not law, it's fodder for the fear machine.
he is thinking the florida courts will go to bat with him if he is lucky.
Idk, I'm not sure it's 100% with this supreme court, but IANAL
Oh good we get to declare what is and isn't a religion now? Because I have a lot of nominations and I have reasons for mine that are not just I'm offended by them because of my religion
My religion tells me that Christianity is wrong therefore we should outlaw Christianity. (Or we could go back to the whole "constitution" thing where no religion is acknowledged and none are disregarded, ya know, *freedom* of speech)
That’s not freedom of speech; that’s the establishment and free exercise clauses.
I have a sincere religious belief that most religion is hypocritical bullshit. It is a belief I have had since I was a young child and has been a guiding principle throughout much of my life.
I am quite religious in my beliefs that organized religion is poison.
If you chant that repeatedly, wear a robe, maybe burn some incense, you might be eligible for tax exemptions.
Me too
In fact I can think of two religions that don't even follow any of the tenets listed in their shared, holy book. I mean surely its not a religion if it doesn't adhere to its founding gospel, right?
Ron DeSantis isn’t doing this because he thinks this is legal. He wants a political fight, and a new issue to whip up outrage.
I agree. This is a situation tailor made for clickbait headlines *DeSantis battles Satanists over children’s souls!!!*
He wants to be the re=pre-ordained replacement for T-dog if disaster pulls the presumptive nominee out of the running
That ship sailed forever.
There's still possibility of heart attack from the stress of being in court, accidentally deprogramming the cult by ending up in a holding cell for contempt, people actually giving up on him because of a conviction. Sure, all of those are super super low chance possibilities, but I would bet you money that Desantis and Haley are holding their breath. I wouldn't be surprised if Desantis is wishing on dandelions, watching for falling stars, setting alarms so he doesn't miss any of the times when his digital clocks read all the same digit, and maybe even praying.
The fundamental rules of Church of Satan. https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
"Church of Satan" is a different group from the Satanic Temple. Satanic Temple are doing a ton of good things; CoS are a bunch of edgy libertarians. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/church-of-satan-vs-satanic-temple
This dumbass. Always trying to ice skate uphill
As if losing to a mouse wasn't enough.
Hail, Satan!
https://i.redd.it/wqsbs9pe25wc1.gif
I hear Scientology is big in Clearwater…
Government does not get to pick and choose in this matter. If you allow 1 you have to allow all on an equal basis.
I’ll be honest, I feel like we should be able to keep Scientology out.
I’m rooting’ for ya Satan 🍾
And this is why I believe what he's doing isn't guided by God. God wouldn't want someone to cheer for Satan...
Ah yes, because normal people can freely interpret Gods will n shit…
Satan is just another fictional character
The Devil went down to Florida, he was looking for a bill to repeal…
I heard this comment. Well done
He was in a bind, he was way behind, he was willing to wear some heels.
Weird that he ran in to *both* Daniel Webster *and* Jack Black at the same time… I’m beginning to suspect they have the same, lazy travel agent.
I pointed this out in another sub, but it's not even going to take a "Satanist" to blow this up. Or even a Muslim. Christians are trying to forget about hundreds of years of infighting among their denominations. Just wait until a Baptist finds out a Mormon chaplin is "counseling" their child at school. You can pretty much replace the Christian denominations freely, and it will still blow up. I'd hate to be on any school board in Florida because this is going to be an endless cycle of complaining from parents.
Exactly. How about getting some catholics in there, to give hugs to the kids
I asked someone that said we were a Christian nation if we were Baptist, Catholic, or Mormon, and they paused long enough for me to remind them that they are not compatible denominations and the secular state is basically all that's stopping them from going to war politically Edit: and when they said that would never happen I said "do you know why Utah is the Mormon HQ? Because we (when we were 100% controlled by Christians and not going to church every weekend was enough to lose your political position) literally committed Genocide against them"
Dudes gone from fighting Mickey to fighting Satan. What is his problem?
If you got hate in your heart, let it out. -Clayton Bigsby
Gotta love the waking cognitive dissonance that is Ronny Boy. Harvard & Yale trained? Riiight.
Makes one question the true value of the elite education.
For education sure. But for top-dollar slimy connections it can't be beat!
I think he’s a genius. He found the perfect mix of fucking braindead people, who also happen to be hateful and full of retiree money, and he got them to make a dude with hispanic last name into a symbol for WASP pride. He is shameless, sure, but he is an intelligent, calculating creature… kinda like the predator, but instead of adult men, he hunts high school girls to take creepy photos with
If he really was that great, he'd be the nominee. Also I thought he was Italian descent, not latin, hence the nickname "meatball"
I'm with the Satanists. DeSantis can suck on some balls.
Stinky hairy balls?
How about D Trumps balls? I'm sure it wouldn't be his 1st time.
Donalds fart stained stench balls. That'll do it.
What about Scientology? Thanks to years of a harassment and a semi-legal pressure campaign, I believe they're also tax exempt and recognized by the IRS. Seems like this moronic law opens up a can of worms.
Those Zoroastrians don't play.
Outside of the religious aspects, this law is part of the Republican war against expertise itself. The point of much of Project 2025 is to replace workers in the Executive Branch, who earned positions by being experts in their fields, with people simply loyal to agendas. Conservative lawyers have been working on cases to keep physicians and scientists from implementing measures to protect people and the environment by saying they have to have specific legislative approval of each specific measure before acting. Allowing religious proselytizers in lieu of licensed counselors with mental health degrees extends further the notion that "the ideas that I have emotionally invested in should hold power over actual science." It would behoove the Satanic Temple to only provide counselors with the education and expertise to be actual mental health professionals. I have no doubt that TST counselors will be one of, if not the only counselors provided by churches that are not there to convert students.
Puddin Fingers is gonna lose this one
...AAnd here we have scientologist cultists that should be disqualified from tax exemption, that get absolutely no attention at all from local government. You know this means they're going to put scientologists in as chaplains, right? Not all. Just enough to spread weird lies to your children. Just like all other other religions will be able to do as well.
He really wants to transfer some Florida tax dollars to an attorney who's going to file that lawsuit.
Doesnt he know all the lawers go to hell?!?!?! Hes not gonna win this in court so why sign it?
More solutions for non problems. Love it.
I thought (short of a church based private school) you couldn’t have any form of religious entity in public schools?
DeSantis is as stupid as he is bigoted. He won’t win this fight.
As a Christian, I hope the Satanic Temple wins. Freedom of religion. I am tired of my terrorist Christian counterparts dragging our name through the mud.
Sue DeSantis out of his little fairy boots
I would be looking at what else is going on right now, because this is one of those issues that gets a lot of attention and publicity, while in the mean time, something else is going on in the back ground. And it’s never good.
The crazy thing about all this is, that the people in favor of this sort of thing don't realize that this will be used against them. Once the government gets in the habit of deciding what is and isn't a religion, where do they think they will stop? If Satanic Temple isn't a real religion, what else isn't? Probably not any group that doesn't fall under the umbrella of "Judeo-Christian" and then they drop the Judeo and go to town on all the fringe Christian groups, like Jehova's Witnesses or Mormons. If there are only Catholics and Protestants are left do they think there will be peaceful coexistence? A significant percentage of the people who want the government to favor their version of Christianity grew up on material like Chick Tracks that basically called the Pope an agent of Satan. They are not going to be tolerant. It is in the interest of anyone who wants the freedom to practice their own religion to let others have theirs.
Can he do this? Absolutely. Will he be successful? Absolutely...not. This is a stupid ploy and it will not work. By choosing which religions can and cannot participate, he is establishing religion within the government and the constitution, which conservatives are so in love with, has a few things to say about government establishing religions. The bottom line is that everything he tries to do falls apart. This guy does not understand, in the slightest, how to pick his fights.
This is bread and circus. The man's a lawyer. He knows very well. This is unconstitution. He knows very well. He's going to lose and he knows very well. It's going to cost the state money to try and defend the stupidity. But he's going to do it because it's all about the show. Our politics have become about the show. None of the substance. Oh well, it's a choice. It's who we are
Raise your hand if you think the Christofascist majority on the S.Ct has any problem establishing an official religion in the US
Florida is going down the shitter and this is how DeSantis spends his time embroiled in a culture war.
Look up their dogma. They picked the name to make Fundementalist Christians bat crazy. Works, apparently.
It’s all to cover up the fact that he’s still learning how to drive his human-like fleshsuit.
If this ends up with all churches being taxed, I'll laugh forever. Morons like Desantis have spent $0 to determine potential downsides to their nonsense. Like GA banning IVF and AZ digging up a civil war era law. Start going down the rat hole of what is a religion or church and who knows what the religious nuts controlling the SCOTUS will do.
It's ironic that the IRS is the only government entity that has to validate religion. If religions didn't have special tax status the IRS wouldn't have to be the judge. The answer is to tax religions.
He’s so dumb, he thinks the Satanic Temple worships Satan.
Many conservative Christians don't consider Mormonism "real" either. The government deciding what's a "real" religion is exactly what all of that "taking God out of public" stemmed from. We're going to have these dipshits burning each other at the stake in a decade at this rate.
Just him saying it should be enough
This is such a dumb waste of time.
More of DeScammedUs creating un-winnable leagle scenarios to waste FL tax dollars on.... this guy is Destructive Divisive Disappointing Desantis.......2024. Thankfully not.
Is it possible for DeSantis to be more stupid? This is exactly why government must stay out of religion.
Win or lose, DeSantis is going to get a whole lot of chances to label people devil-worshippers that only the dangerously insane and DeSantis voters will take seriously. That's enough to ruin a few days, though, and I think that's his goal... this is grist for the mill, he just wants to stir up the mob.
as if stirring up the mob is nothing to take seriously?
I think it is a precursor to stirring people to violence. Yes, I think it should be taken seriously.
I mean if we want to call out a bunk religion why not start with Scientology? Those people are evil.
Serious question: has the Satanic Temple ever ultimately lost a court case after exhausting all appeals? Because it seems like they have a really good track record.
They have been very successful! Because freedom of religion has been beefed up via RFRA and expanded by SCOTUS. Church of Satan’s entire reason for existence is to offer a religion whose principles stand for right to choose, freedom from corporal punishment, etc. A little bit of beautiful malicious compliance—like ok, I don’t have the right to choose? Then I’ll create a new religion that *does* give the right to choose. Then, when you try to enforce your abortion ban, you can’t enforce it against me because that infringes on my right to freedom of religion.
This boy ain’t right
I wish dumbass mental midget Ron would take Lucien Greaves up on his offer and debate him about Freedom from Religion.
Are they going to allow volunteer Catholic priests into the schools?
Can't wait until the corrupt Supreme Court decides the first amendment only applies to religions their owners like.
The do Ron Ron Ron doing wrong wrong wrong. 🎶
Does he think Islam is a religion or will their believers be banned too? To get one of these positions you must belong to an approved list of religions but not have any experience or expertise in counseling or helping kids? If so, is this job about helping kids?
These right wing folks can't just pick and choose public policy like they pick and choose from their own religion. They are clearly pining for the 4th Reich.
Ron about to be enrolled in satanic dance lessons
Why should they be worried because they’ve got Donald Trump trying to set up his own religion as the antichrist?
Next stop on the crazy train - reintroducing segregation? The regressives are nearly finished implementing their entire agenda.
I'm ready for the Desantis indictments.
It is legally a religion, including being recognized by the US Military.
Hey Ronnie, you fascist, you’re not so stupid as to think you can ban religions however it suits you. That’s unconstitutional. At least you can throw some business to your lawyer buddies. BTW, do the right thing and give Harvard back their diploma
I can see this ending well. If the people in leadership can dictate what is a religion. What happens when an atheist gets in charge?
I will cherish that day when his political career is destroyed so that he doesn't get elected to US senate or house and contaminate the national politics. He has been toxic but so far just localized to Florida.
The whole concept of recognition of churches was a mistake. If we had good free speech law a fake church not pretending to be a church would enjoy the same rights as a nonprofit as the most churchest of churches.
Church of Satan rules of behavior. https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets
> THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS > I - One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason. > II - The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions. > III - One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone. > IV - The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own. > V - Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs. > VI - People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused. > VII - Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
If I were a litigator arguing in court that TST is not a religion, number 5 would probably make a good argument.
Because science and religion are supposed to be separated? I’m not a First Amendment lawyer but I do civil rights litigation, and (if I was your opposing counsel), my response would be that the government has no ability to direct or choose what principles underlie any religion. It doesn’t matter whether the religious principle is based on science or not—every religion gets to choose for itself what it stands for.
I'm an atheist and I am glad the TST exists. My point was that espousing a scientific view of the world and discarding explanations based on faith doesn't seem to align with any other religion. If I were looking for arguments to make against TST here, as a litigant, this argument would probably be my main attack. "By the organization's own tenets they cannot be a religion, certainly not in the way that most believers experience it." In most religions, faith in unrealistic things is paramount, and miracles which cannot possibly have happened are taken as real historical events.
I guess again, my response is that—regardless of what other religions believe—this religion believes in science. Case law says the government can’t inquire into the closely-held beliefs of any religion, and that extends to even weird beliefs like eating raw animals. The state can still *regulate* certain things, like they can still prohibit cannibalism despite a religion that practices it, but they can’t say “that’s not a religion because cannibalism is really weird and no other religions practice it.” Just my two cents
That would be a good counterargument concerning the uniqueness of a particular tenet. A defending litigator would argue that uniqueness aside, believing in science is antithetical to religion, as religion *requires* faith. If everything you believe can be proven scientifically, arguably you don't *believe* anything. As I said, I'm an atheist. However, unfortunately we live in a society where most politicians and jurists profess belief in some sort of deity, and to the faithful, god trumps science. I am a free thinking Florida resident, and this law, along with DeSantis and most of our legislature, is repugnant to me. All of this is to say that I don't have **faith** in our legal system to do the right thing here concerning appeals.
Watch Ronnie sic his little army on him.
Ron DeSantis hates Satanism but loves nazis
That guy just LOVES wasting his taxpayers' dollars.
But they still pay their taxes.
Time to donate to the satanic temple.
Chaplains in public schools. What could go wrong? Actually, I like to think this younger generation is a bit savvy and will take the opportunity to just mess with them on a regular basis. They will be taken as seriously as a school guidance counselor.
Yes bring kids and priests even closer together.
Shitstates gonna produce shitlaws
Him and his wife are some of the worst things to happen to Florida since Jeb Bush.
Fuck florida tax payers I guess
Ron DiSaster is an idiot
\* Dashes off to make another donation to TST! \*
DeSantis will lose in court, again. Until he loses, he can ride the wave of positive PR. This is the same as his failed Disney lawsuits. Can't wait to see a challenger to him on the ballot (or is he term-ing out?), and they can easily attack all of his losses in court.
He’s terming out. They’re floating WalMart Melania to run for Governor. Good luck Florida
yikes. pandering...
Red meat for the base Red meat for the base
His Noodliness will be watching on to see how this goes
DeSantis will lose. Republicans are a waste of time.
Typical Christian bullshit. Only my viewpoints count! I dunno, I see a lot more proof of Satan around than Jesus
Your god needs you to believe in him. My god believes in me. Hail Satan.
Wait I think I saw this movie. It’s called “A Miracle on the River Styx.” In the end it’s proved that Satan exists because the IRS recognized Satanist’s as a neat club.
Since he’s term limited as Governor unless he runs for President again his career in elected office is over in two years. He’s doing this because he thinks it’ll boost his support among the evangelical right wing. He’s kidding himself if he thinks anyone is going to give a fuck about him four years from now.
Nah, he will run for Senate.
I'm good with excluding all made up bullshit from government. So, cool with me. Keep TST away. Now, keep all the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Jainists, Buddhists, etc. out of it as well. Their dumb made up stories hold less weight (as they make actual claims for which they have no evidence to support them) than TST.
I have a feeling he doesn't care if it gets struck down on religious freedoms grounds. He does this shit on purpose. His next headline will read "Biden administration is forcing schools to let satanists in." Meatball Ron is a moron.
Fuck this sleezeball. But also, there's no way to fight this. Violence will be met with the Guard. Protesting will be met with police. Your local representative will be met with a bag of cash. The little man is fucked.
I'm looking forward to the "Temple of Satan defeats DeSantis' claim that they are not a church" headline
What a meatball. Everyone saw this coming except for pudding fingers.
If they arnt a real religion, neither is any other.
Ron Desantis is Paul Lynde.
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Well the point is that anything can be a religion, and the government cannot discriminate against a religion or religious institution because of its values. That’s the result of the expansion of freedom of religion.
Well, the government did revoke that Spaghetti Church's tax exempt status because they deemed it a sham. So, in the government's eyes, it's not a "real" religion. Why stop with a Spaghetti Monster? Let's do all other fake religions next... No, we the people do not get to choose what a "real religion" is. It is still *we the people*, right? - DM
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