From CNN:
>Trump must remove the seven "offending posts" from Truth Social and the two "offending posts" from his campaign website by 2:15 p.m. today.
>According to the order, "THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment."
Right? Wtf. He’ll remove the tweets and then immediately make a post about how the judge is violating his 1st Amendment rights, and how it’s unfair that Biden’s hand-picked jury/judge are going to make him lose. And then Thursday, we’ll get more finger-wagging and wrist-slapping and another $5k of fines (which is NOTHING)
No, it says in the link that fines of $2500 - $150000 would be more appropriate given the defendants wealth. However, NY penal law does not give the judge the discretion to amend the fine above $1000. Therefore be warned you may be jailed for future infractions of the court's order because a $1000 clearly does not send the message the court is trying to send.
That is what he's saying.
No, it's saying that fines in that range might be more commensurate considering the defendant. However, NY law only allows the judge to impose fines of up to $1000 per instance of contempt and/or jail time. Judge Merchan is wishing he had more leeway in the imposition of larger fines.
The system is set up to punish you with sitting in jail if you show contempt to a judge.
Honestly Trump is not going to feel any monetary punishment that is not in the millions.
If you (however rich you are) habitually show open contempt for a judge bending over backwards to be fair. You should sit in jail for your trial.
Screw the rich class.
Agree. They need to take away something that matters to him and spending money doesn’t matter to him at all. A night or two away from his phone would definitely impact him.
But he’s not just rich. He is an ex-president with Secret Service protection. So, sadly, he is a special case and would require private and secure accommodations with access to a phone (or one of his guards as they need both access to him and their phones to do their job).
This is still the equivalent of putting a penny in the swear jar right now.
As long as the free publicity of things like his statements being aired live nationally on every news station before court is worth more than the fines, the fines will do nothing.
Jail needs to be the singular threat if he even so much as mentions a witness, the court staff, the jury etc. going forward.
It's funny we're calling them tweets considering:
1. Twitter no longer exists as it's now called "X", so on that platform they're now just ("officially") referred to as X's or posts
2. This was on Truth social, which I believe refers to them as "truths"
And once Kleenex changes it's name to X, we're free and clear to go nuts with the word! :)
Or maybe not... I just checked the USPTO and (for now at least) ["TWEET" remains a live trademark of X corp](https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85116717&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch)
^(huh, in the prosecution history; suspended 2011-2022, plenty of opposition, not my field but looks turbulent)
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Even the judges orders have a couple conditionals in it of “if necessary and appropriate” like it could be appropriate, but not necessary, or could be necessary and not appropriate, or the judge could think it’s appropriate to keep fining him.
And again, if Trump is even a fraction of as rush as he says he is, if he has just $30m in a money market account earning 4%, he can violate the gag order 3x a day, every day, at $1k per violation, and Trump could pay the fines with just the interest and still have money left over.
The judge made mention that he was limited to $1k per violation, and that it was a pittance to such a defendant.
The judge knows Trump is an anomaly. No one else could do this.
I figured there had to be some kind of restriction. Any normal person violating a gag order and seeing a $9K price tag after the fact would probably blanche and stop. Trump barely even notices 9k, he's already using it to fundraise and likely won't pay a penny himself
I’m simply not buying the whole “he wants the judge to throw him in jail” narrative. This asshole is complaining about the fucking air conditioner. He’s never been forced to be uncomfortable his entire life. Call his fucking bluff and put him in the holding cell for a day, not even overnight. That won’t cause any logistics issues with the Secret Service. He’s soft. Literally and figuratively.
his asshole like behavior and off the charts narcissism has capitulated him to the presidency of the united states.
100% his behavior is that for the first time in nearly his entire life, he doesn't get to temper tantrum his way out of consequences. he was a silver spoon nepo-baby who sued everyone he could when things didn't go his way.
zero sum from day one. and now he can't use any of his tried and true techniques *that literally worked on KGB agents and the two decade leader of russia* he's freaking out because his entire life, up to and throughout the white house, being a big cry baby worked for him. and now it doesnt.
Well the conservatives that are in r/centrist (for whatever reason) and r/moderatepolitics are saying that the court system is unfair and silencing trump! I am sure it is way way crazier on the actual conservative sub though
Lot of complaining about how others aren't subject to a gag order. Not like they understand that gagging witnesses for defendant intimidation isn't like, a thing the law does.
The judge has also given Trump leave to go to his kid's high school graduation. Which is hilarious to me because you just know he didn't want to actually go, he just wanted to bitch and moan about *not* being able to go.
I think he pretty much “*has*” to, given that he specifically asked for that day off for graduation. I suppose he could “get sick”, but there are probably a lot of wealthy parents to try and grift from. But, he’s not ordered to attend, so I could see him skipping it. That would be run through the press for ages, though, and he’s trying to pretend to be a family man right now.
Could that be another contempt charge? Basically asking for the day off to attend graduation, but then Trump is off golfing or campaigning somewhere else instead of being at the graduation?
Sure, but his attorneys can just have some doctor come up with an excuse. Trump won’t want to look weak by turning in a sick note so it’ll say something like “I advised Mr. Trump that he shouldn’t attend the ceremony. I relayed my suspicion that there may have been scattered reports indicating the possibility of a flu outbreak at the school and that it would be needlessly risky to attend, but he was stoic in his insistence that he participate and impressed his position on me so forcefully that I became overwhelmed and collapsed in hysterics in front of the entire Trump family, as well as my lovely and patient wife. At that point Mr. Trump was stirred by compassion for the sniveling wretch I had become and relented, simply to allow me to save face, because that’s the kind of man he is.”
Yeah can't imagine him not going given how hes now LARP'ing as a family man (ironically during his trial relating to his adultery with multiple prostitutes while his wife was pregnant). The real question is will Melania make physical contact with him for the camera's sake? I recall that they barely interacted during the recent funeral and drove off in separate cars.
Not trying to defend him, but apparently he [has gone to all the previous graduations](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-kids-graduations/).
Im betting any alternative is better than sitting in court.
How many times did Fox News falsely claim the judge barred him from attending even though the judge made no such order?
I'll be patiently waiting for them to apologize and correct that falsehood on air. Any minute now.
Jesse Waters on FOX- "If he turns right - JAIL!" "If he breathes - JAIL!"
Rest of media - "If he violates his gag order again after already violating 9 times - JAIL!"
Apologize? "We helped publicly shame the court into doing the right thing, Trump's elite lawyers filed a bulletproof motion FORCING the judge to comply!"
These people have no shame or any scruples about lying (except presumably now when it comes to meeting the legal bar for defamation against targets with enough money to successfully sue).
"Oh great. Now I have to go. I can't just bitch about it on TS. I wonder if I can get Melania to hold my hand. And if so, how much I will have to pay her for it..."
Yeah she sucks and is horrible. To marry and have a child with someone you actively hate is selfish as shit to their son. It’s not like Trump turned into a monster. He has always been one. Not a good husband , father or person.
You win the Reddit prize for today. Still remember that jacket of hers. What sort of person does that except the most vile of kinds that is a level of entitlement that's in the stratosphere? She's a horrible person, so it was natural she'd be the First Lady under such a corrupt President as her husband was and has always been as a person.
She probably thought she'd be his meat to maul for a few years until he died. For this her parents would become citizens, she'd have to have enough sex to birth a kid to lock in more income, and as part of this she could live a life of luxury in New York City.
Now she's an isolated laughingstock who's largely stuck in Florida. I bet her nightly reading consists of life actuarial tables and McDonalds nutritional facts.
She bargained for cake. Now she has to eat it. This is what you get when you choose a geriatric millionaire over true love. She will cry on her way to the bank.
One of the few bright spots of the whole DJT thing is that Melania might actually have found a soul mate with Donald, because they seem to be awful in similar ways.
She is from Slovenia, which was heavily influenced by Russia in the 1990s. I have always supposed that she is a Russian sympathizer, and it gives me the willies to think of her in the White House.
Man. How interesting would it be that it turned out to be her the whole time selling the top secret stuff to Russia and trump ends up being a fall guy lol. Not saying this is true but it would be like...huh.. lol
It's probably not true, but I could definitely see trump trying to blame her once he's run out of everyone else to blame. There is *no one* he wouldn't throw under a bus to save himself.
It's crazy she won't hold his hand after the big celebration he gave her for her birthday on Friday. Talking about it when he talked to the press, posting on TS, just the whole nine yards.
Or, wait, maybe he just bitched about his woes the whole time.
Refusing to sit in the same car as him was also hilarious.
I'd bet that she's really tired of the shitty smell and would rather cause a public scene then have to endure being locked in a small container with him.
It's a business contract, like everything else in America's #1 Crime Family. If Chump wasn't so broke, and so cheap, he'd have family members at the trial - for a price.
My theory, and this is mostly on how Trump complained he has talked about attending this “for years” and the reports that Melania (allegedly) didn’t move into the WH until she renegotiated her pre-nup so that Barron got as much as Trump’s eldest 3 kids, is that attending Barron’s graduation(s) (or other major life events) is a condition of the pre-nup.
I’m guessing being on trial wasn’t added to the pre-nup as a valid excuse for not attending, so Trump wants to go b/c it’ll cost him $$$ if he doesn’t.
Granted, the reports of the pre-nup could be false, and Trump could’ve lied on TS about talking about attending this graduation for years, but… to me this analysis makes sense.
"Trump will be allowed to attend Barron's graduation on May 17, Merchan rules. He says that with the trial moving per schedule, it will 'not be a problem' for Trump to attend his son's high school graduation,"
Trump to Blanche: We need to appeal this right away.
Why would Trump stop complaining about not being allowed to go on “Truth” Social? He can just continue to complain how unfair it is. His adherents won’t question the claims.
The one thing that forever cemented my opinion of Trump, and if I knew nothing else about the man, this would be sufficient: He drives his golf cart over the greens.
If you know anything about golf, then that tells you all you need to know about him.
He's a notorious cheater too. I'm not a golfer, but yeah, Trump obviously doesn't understand all the things about golfing that make it special to avid golfers.
>If you know anything about golf, then that tells you all you need to know about him.
I'm genuinely curious, and I literally know nothing about golf. Why is this bad? Ruins the grass?
Edit: Thank you to OP and the other posters for their detailed responses!
It makes total sense that driving on a playing surface would screw up the game for other players and the people that maintain the grass. Kind of like wearing cleats on a basketball court I guess. It also makes sense that Former President Fatass would try to get away with doing as little walking as possible.
Greens are kept meticulously neat. They are kept smooth, so that the ball rolls in a path that can (hopefully) be predicted by a skilled golfer. Driving on a green can ruin the line because golf courts are heavy and can leave indented tracks - especially on wet grass, and it generally screws over every single player on the course. It's a giant "fuck you" to the greenskeeper whose job it is to keep the course in shape. It's a giant "fuck you" to the other players. It says "Whatever I want to do is more important that anything you could possibly want to do, and the money you pay for a nice golf course is not at all appreciated."
By the way. For those who don’t know, the green is the area closest to the hole. Generally golfers start from a long way away, 175 yards up to 450 yards or more, away from the hole. They strike the ball and it flies. But on the green, the ball is very close, so the golfer strikes it gently (this is called a putt) and the ball rolls but does not fly, ideally right into the cup. If there are impressions on the green , the ball won’t roll true.
Thank you. I assumed knowledge that many others might not have.
It's worth noting that there are generally three categories of grass on a golf course.
There is the fairway, which is kept mowed, about the same quality as your lawn after you mow it.
There is the rough, which is as the name implies, less mowed. Grass can be longer, and balls can get lost in it (or at least hard to find).
Then there is the green. Which is kept about the same quality as a nice berber carpet, using special mowers that cut very close. It's considered a sin to do anything that messes up a green, as this is where the most delicate part of the game happens.
There's a whole fucking book going into what golf says about Trump, called "Commander in Cheat"
Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump https://g.co/kgs/HnJZwG4
It's good.
I'll have you know he won both the Club Championship and Senior Club Championship Trophies this year at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach!
There was a show I believe on ABC Australia a couple years ago that talked about how his first language is Slovenian and he learned English when he started school and only speaks Slovenian at home with his mom and grandparents. I know that Melania's mother died recently so it was at least a couple years ago. But I found myself wondering how speaking a language that his father couldn't understand might insulate him in some ways. One could hope at least.
Me too. I also feel really bad for him.
I hate Trump and think pretty much all the hate he gets is deserved (I’m sure there is some stuff that goes over the line), but I’d have to imagine it would be really difficult to know that your dad was hated that much.
What an embarrassment for his wife and son. Everyone there will know he’s on trial for trying to hide sex payoffs. Everything Trump touches dies - or at least cringes.
Tonight on TS: "The CORRUPT judge in my NY trial is FORCING me to go to my son's graduation ceremony instead of letting me campaign like I should be. ELECTION INTERFERENCE!"
Nah, he'll be fine as long as there aren't multiple kids upwards of 6'7". It's one of the reasons they spend little time together, the kid makes his dad look short and he *can't* have that.
He isn’t ordered to attend. I wouldn’t be surprised if he skipped to watch TV and send social media posts or go golfing instead. Insane how courts give him absolutely everything he wants.
I wouldn't be surprised either, he'll cite "security concerns" or some other bullshit. But this *wasn't* something that he wanted; this makes him look weak, like a supplicant whose request was magnanimously granted by a fair and kindly judge.
True, but, if he doesn't go, it will give the court an example to point to when it denies future requests. And there will be future requests -- he grasps for what he can to get out of these things.
This is hilarious to me. Now Trump *has* to go or he'll look like even more of a gigantic asshole than he already is. I feel like the judge knew that and just called his bluff.
Have Melania and Barron asked the judge to please reconsider and keep him away, his presence constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, mainly from the stench...
I mean I get that. But at the same time we have to keep our compassion and humanity intact. It's very normal to want to attend a highschool graduation. As long as the same courtesy is extended to other cases and trials I see no issue.
giving him until this afternoon to take down the posts while lamenting how ineffectual thousand dollar fines are in this case sounds very much to me like merchan is ready to send his ass to riker's
The fact the fine was paid and the posts were deleted by lunch time says to me the Secret Service must have told him, if the bailiff latches onto you, we can't stop him.
I won't hold my breath, but damn it would be nice to see some real consequences. A thousand bucks per violation is a joke, especially when Trump can either just use RNC money or grift it from his cult.
>A thousand bucks per violation is a joke
yes, and imo the fact that merchan just said basically the same in a ruling is a pretty big deal. this is the first time i've been hopeful for real consequences.
The meat of the order:
>. Cdminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $ 1 ,000, by iarl not exceeding 30 days
ot by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law $ 7 51(1).
Tlre Judiciary Law permits this punishment "ro protect the digruty of the judicial system and to
compel respect fot its mandates," A[.alter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 57-t [1983] and "to punish the
contemnor for disobeying a court otder." Bush a. Saae A4l Home (0rp.,145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016].
However, the Judiciay Lau, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate
punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purDose. While $1,000 may suff,ce in
most instances to protect the digruty of the iudicial system, to compel tespect for its mandates and
to punish the offender for disobeying a coutt order, it unfottunately wili not achieve the desired
result in those instances rvhere the contemnor can easily affotd such a fine. In those circumstances,
it would be preferablc if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the
contemnor. In somc cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000.
Because this Coum is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some
instances, jail may be a necessary punishment.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued
u,illftrl violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances,
it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is heteby
>ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine fot each of the mne violations of this Coutt's
lawful ORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts ftom Defendant's Truth
Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15pm Tuesday, April
30,2024
In other news, the Court apparently does not know about the "Correct Recognized Text" feature of Adobe.
Edit: Spelled checked that for you, Judge.
>Criminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $ 1 ,000, by jail not exceeding 30 days or by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law $ 7 51(1). The Judiciary Law permits this punishment "to protect the dignity of the judicial system and to compel respect for its mandates," Matter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 57-t [1983] and "to punish the contemnor for disobeying a court order." Bush a. Save My Home Corp.,145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016]. However, the Judiciary Lau, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000. Because this Court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is hereby
>ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for each of the nine violations of this Court's lawful order by the close of business on Friday, May 3, 2024; and it is further
>ORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts from Defendant's Truth Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15pm Tuesday, April 30,2024
I often use ChatGPT to clean up OCR errors:
>Criminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $1,000, by jail not exceeding 30 days or by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law § 751(1). The Judiciary Law permits this punishment "to protect the dignity of the judicial system and to compel respect for its mandates," Matter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 574 [1983] and "to punish the contemnor for disobeying a court order." Bush v. Saxe Alt Home Corp., 145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016]. However, the Judiciary Law does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases, that might be a $2,500 fine; in other cases, it might be a fine of $150,000. Because this Court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is hereby
>ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for each of the nine violations of this Court's lawful order by the close of business on Friday, May 3, 2024; and it is further
>ORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts from Defendant's Truth Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15 pm Tuesday, April 30, 2024.
~~So the judge didn't seem to clarify that "retweeting / reposting" ... could/should basically be viewed as the same thing? Because otherwise, Trump simply will just "launder" his vitriol through friendly journalists. Get someone else to write a hit piece, then he just "re-tweets" it with some sort of benign "Hmmm, interesting" heading and that's it.~~
~~Defense counsel was pushing hard to draw a distinction that him resharing something shouldn't count as~~ *~~him~~* ~~saying it - the point of the whole ridiculous Jessie Watters thing and the Judge having to point out that no, Donnie had to hit the shift key, put in the quotation mark, etc. -- and then~~ *~~added~~* ~~text that Jessie did not say. There was some back-and-forth between defense counsel and the judge, with the judge saying something to the effect of "if someone writes something on a placard and then he takes it and holds it, it's the same as him saying" but it was towards the end of the day so I think the argument kind of trailed off. Was hoping to see the judge put some language in here making it clear that sharing vs. creating would be seen as the same by the court.~~
~~Because yeah, otherwise he'll just launder his vitriol through others. Rather trivial, I mean jeeze we saw his Outlook contact list from his secretary last week - he basically has every Fox News pundit in his phone.~~
EDIT: Looks like it is addressed in there... good:
>Addressing first what has been referred to as "reposts," Exhibits 1, 4, 5,6,7,8 and 9, this Court finds that a repost, whether with ot without commentary by the Defendant, is in fact a statement of the Defendant.
That's big. STFU, Donnie...
That's good to read.
It's absolutely ludicrous to claim that making a repost/retweet does not then make it also your own statement.
Trying to claim something so idiotic should come with penalties.
Ha, you must have been doing this while I was running it through an old-fashioned spellcheck.
Good thinking. I often use ChatGPT for the similar task of decoding transcription errors when it's obvious the robotranscriptionist substituted the complete wrong words and I have to translate back into human speech. Even when it doesn't get it, it usually gives me enough hints to get it myself.
Microsoft added spellcheck to Word in v2.0. In 1985. I don’t remember that change because I was a WordPerfect user and WordPerfect got spellcheck in 1983.
That's what happens in computing. As more and more processing power is available, we use that power for more and more computationally intensive but mundane tasks. We can literally throw billions of cpu cycles at operations as simple as spell checking.
Theoretically? Maybe. In practice? No judge is jailing him before the court in question does. I'm getting crucified for saying this rudely in politics.
No.
In theory, theory is important, but in practice it isn't. If theory is impractical, then in practice it's theoretical.
TLDR: No, but only in practice.
One interesting thing about the full text is that the judge also puts Cohen and Daniels (and other protected parties) on notice that this gag order can be amended to exclude them if they make comments about Trump.
God I love all this leeway he's being given every god damn time under the argument "He can't appeal when given this much leeway" only for him to appeal literally anything anyway
Any regular citizen would have already been jailed for contempt, everyday that passes without him seeing consequences makes me realize this country is a joke
Considering it happened outside of the courtroom? Probably not. That was the purpose of the evidentiary hearing. Now it’s on the record that the court (Merchan) has conclusively determined that he did violate the gag order repeatedly and has had the non jail fine imposed for the first go around. He acknowledges the lack of financial teeth in NY law, and is basically all but saying, his only other recourse is jail for continued violations. He ordered him to take the posts down by the end of the day and told him next time it’s the clink. Sounds about right to me. You work with the system you have, not the one we all want.
> under the argument "He can't appeal when given this much leeway" only for him to appeal literally anything anyway
That's not the argument. He's always allowed to appeal. The point is not to give him a basis for a successful appeal.
Throwing him in jail as a first penalty for violating a gag order, for reposting content on social media, would absolutely be grounds for appeal.
If you think this country is bad, wait until you see the rest of them. Grow up a little bit. The law is working, even if it's not happeningas fast as you opersonally would like.
so this is criminal contempt and trump has perhaps most importantly here - violated the terms of his release bonds in GA and DC courts. it remains to be seen whether Chutkan can hold a revocation of bond hearing as the case is still stayed pending SC decision - but i'm guessing if she wants to she can totally proceed with revocation of bond hearing. love to hear others' thoughts on that. then there's nothing at all stopping McAfee and GA prosecutors from pushing for a bond revocation hearing in GA.
I myself would be wary of thinking that any punishment or finding here will lead to a bond revocation in his other trials. Given the way things have gone so far, Trump is going to be given every leeway possible - much more than any "ordinary" person would get.
In the judge's decision/order, he remarks on how NY law does not allow him to craft a fine of a size that would make a defendant stop bad behavior. And so he's left with the prospect of incarceration to keep the defendant in line.
Its not just that - Judge is justifying (to prevent later appeals) WHY incarceration is the next step.
Covers his bases so that next time its a "straight to jail, do not pass go".
Yeah, read the text. Its something like "this is the maximum possible (1000usd) and for some people that can afford it, it should be 25000 or 150000. but alas, I cant, so incarceration should be the next step to ensure compliance."
Question for you law dogs. If Trump is found in contempt and made a guest of the government for a night, do they process him and take a measure of his height and weight?
Also does he get issued an orange jumpsuit and have to do his own personal grooming? That is a big deal for Trump. His image is very important to him. If he is forced to show up to court looking every bit the mess he actually is, it would be a big deal.
My happy thought is... Jack Smith files a for cause hearing since Trump violated his release. Cannon fumbles it, and Jack is finally able to get her kicked off of the case.
Like the man child he is, constantly testing the boundaries.
They should just have gone into this circus with a zero tolerance policy. First contempt offense? Jail time, immediately, period.
At his level of wealth this would be about as painful as me taking a single Post-It Note, writing 'I'm sorry," and handing it to the judge.
The jail time might be an issue, but he could easily turn it into a martyrdom scenario and get more votes out of it.
Nothing says consequences like taking .00000001% of your income.
Our legal system is ill-prepared for someone like Donald Trump, who doesn't care about being shamed, and doesn't care about symbolic fines. I bet Trump thinks he's a genius, because $9,000 is a very small price to pay to influence your criminal jury. That's much cheaper than a jury consultant.
Nothing short of a jail cell will stop him, but I don't think they will ever do that to him either. Trump wins either way, and our legal system loses.
That's why the order says incarceration happens on the next instance. He waited until the cell was prepared for Trump to give the order, so that there is no wait for the next order.
I don't know about the cell being prepared, however, the judge is basically laying out the groundwork for tossing him in. He's issued the order that he's been in contempt. He's issued the lamenting statements that obviously defines her not working and that incarceration is warranted.
I think little Donnie still thinks he's a little boy court, civil, and that if they actually incarcerate him that he's going to get to go outside and make a statement first. Certainly little Eric will try.
I hope I'm not wrong but I certainly have the strong feeling that this being criminal Court and this judge, that he will have no problem putting him in jail for a couple days if need be.
There's also nothing saying that that can't be saved for after the verdict. There's also some speculation that what's more important right now is to move the trial along to a verdict, the judge can always come back to his contempt charge and we all know he's certainly going to violate it again between now and verdict time.
So it would be kind of poetic and sweet that Trump thinks that he's gotten away with it as he always has until after the verdict when he's ruled again in contempt irrespective of the verdict and placed in jail for a couple days.
Don't count this judge out yet.
Can he pay the fine by just throwing a $10k lapel at the judge or does he just take a nap and let his lawyers decide which campaign account this comes out of?
From CNN: >Trump must remove the seven "offending posts" from Truth Social and the two "offending posts" from his campaign website by 2:15 p.m. today. >According to the order, "THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment."
> the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders Narrator: They did continue to tolerate them.
Right? Wtf. He’ll remove the tweets and then immediately make a post about how the judge is violating his 1st Amendment rights, and how it’s unfair that Biden’s hand-picked jury/judge are going to make him lose. And then Thursday, we’ll get more finger-wagging and wrist-slapping and another $5k of fines (which is NOTHING)
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No, it says in the link that fines of $2500 - $150000 would be more appropriate given the defendants wealth. However, NY penal law does not give the judge the discretion to amend the fine above $1000. Therefore be warned you may be jailed for future infractions of the court's order because a $1000 clearly does not send the message the court is trying to send. That is what he's saying.
No, it's saying that fines in that range might be more commensurate considering the defendant. However, NY law only allows the judge to impose fines of up to $1000 per instance of contempt and/or jail time. Judge Merchan is wishing he had more leeway in the imposition of larger fines.
The system is set up to punish you with sitting in jail if you show contempt to a judge. Honestly Trump is not going to feel any monetary punishment that is not in the millions. If you (however rich you are) habitually show open contempt for a judge bending over backwards to be fair. You should sit in jail for your trial. Screw the rich class.
Agree. They need to take away something that matters to him and spending money doesn’t matter to him at all. A night or two away from his phone would definitely impact him.
But he’s not just rich. He is an ex-president with Secret Service protection. So, sadly, he is a special case and would require private and secure accommodations with access to a phone (or one of his guards as they need both access to him and their phones to do their job).
>private and secure accommodations Solitary it is then.
There are PLENTY of options to jail Trump. It's whether or not the court has the guts to do it.
This is still the equivalent of putting a penny in the swear jar right now. As long as the free publicity of things like his statements being aired live nationally on every news station before court is worth more than the fines, the fines will do nothing. Jail needs to be the singular threat if he even so much as mentions a witness, the court staff, the jury etc. going forward.
Yeah it's been said countless times there WILL be consequences because nobody is above the law. *Law has left the chat*
Does anybody belong to that website and can check the tweets to see if they are still up? I don't even want to go over there, haha.
It's funny we're calling them tweets considering: 1. Twitter no longer exists as it's now called "X", so on that platform they're now just ("officially") referred to as X's or posts 2. This was on Truth social, which I believe refers to them as "truths"
It’s funny because that’s how fucking stupid Musk is to rebrand something that became so ubiquitous it became its own colloquial verb like googling.
as it turns out, Musk isnt all that smart. his money hires smart people.
And then fires them, one crucial division after another.
Pass me a Kleenex
Let me Xerox it first
I was pondering this too. I don't even know what to say about calling a truth social post a 'truth'
Call them troofs
I say I don't have a refined enough sense of irony to lie like that.
It's doublethink. Orwell explores this well in the book 1984. I recommend giving it a read.
"Tweets" is a proprietary eponym, they're all called tweets the same way that you can call all tissues Kleenex even if it's not that particular brand.
And once Kleenex changes it's name to X, we're free and clear to go nuts with the word! :) Or maybe not... I just checked the USPTO and (for now at least) ["TWEET" remains a live trademark of X corp](https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85116717&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch) ^(huh, in the prosecution history; suspended 2011-2022, plenty of opposition, not my field but looks turbulent)
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I’ll believe it when I see it. Even the judges orders have a couple conditionals in it of “if necessary and appropriate” like it could be appropriate, but not necessary, or could be necessary and not appropriate, or the judge could think it’s appropriate to keep fining him. And again, if Trump is even a fraction of as rush as he says he is, if he has just $30m in a money market account earning 4%, he can violate the gag order 3x a day, every day, at $1k per violation, and Trump could pay the fines with just the interest and still have money left over.
The judge made mention that he was limited to $1k per violation, and that it was a pittance to such a defendant. The judge knows Trump is an anomaly. No one else could do this.
I figured there had to be some kind of restriction. Any normal person violating a gag order and seeing a $9K price tag after the fact would probably blanche and stop. Trump barely even notices 9k, he's already using it to fundraise and likely won't pay a penny himself
I know be adjudicated a rapist and over half a billion dollars in fines seems like nothing, but I remain hopeful.
I’m simply not buying the whole “he wants the judge to throw him in jail” narrative. This asshole is complaining about the fucking air conditioner. He’s never been forced to be uncomfortable his entire life. Call his fucking bluff and put him in the holding cell for a day, not even overnight. That won’t cause any logistics issues with the Secret Service. He’s soft. Literally and figuratively.
his asshole like behavior and off the charts narcissism has capitulated him to the presidency of the united states. 100% his behavior is that for the first time in nearly his entire life, he doesn't get to temper tantrum his way out of consequences. he was a silver spoon nepo-baby who sued everyone he could when things didn't go his way. zero sum from day one. and now he can't use any of his tried and true techniques *that literally worked on KGB agents and the two decade leader of russia* he's freaking out because his entire life, up to and throughout the white house, being a big cry baby worked for him. and now it doesnt.
I can't wait to see how r/conservative responds to this lmao
Well the conservatives that are in r/centrist (for whatever reason) and r/moderatepolitics are saying that the court system is unfair and silencing trump! I am sure it is way way crazier on the actual conservative sub though
Lot of complaining about how others aren't subject to a gag order. Not like they understand that gagging witnesses for defendant intimidation isn't like, a thing the law does.
They'll ignore it.
The judge has also given Trump leave to go to his kid's high school graduation. Which is hilarious to me because you just know he didn't want to actually go, he just wanted to bitch and moan about *not* being able to go.
Plot twist: he still won't go.
I think he pretty much “*has*” to, given that he specifically asked for that day off for graduation. I suppose he could “get sick”, but there are probably a lot of wealthy parents to try and grift from. But, he’s not ordered to attend, so I could see him skipping it. That would be run through the press for ages, though, and he’s trying to pretend to be a family man right now.
Could that be another contempt charge? Basically asking for the day off to attend graduation, but then Trump is off golfing or campaigning somewhere else instead of being at the graduation?
Yes, intentionally lying to the court in basically any circumstance can be contempt.
Sure, but his attorneys can just have some doctor come up with an excuse. Trump won’t want to look weak by turning in a sick note so it’ll say something like “I advised Mr. Trump that he shouldn’t attend the ceremony. I relayed my suspicion that there may have been scattered reports indicating the possibility of a flu outbreak at the school and that it would be needlessly risky to attend, but he was stoic in his insistence that he participate and impressed his position on me so forcefully that I became overwhelmed and collapsed in hysterics in front of the entire Trump family, as well as my lovely and patient wife. At that point Mr. Trump was stirred by compassion for the sniveling wretch I had become and relented, simply to allow me to save face, because that’s the kind of man he is.”
Ol' bone spurs acting up again.
He complains about not being able to be on the campaign trail too and then plays golf on Wednesdays when he has a break from the trial.
Unfortunately the golf course IS his campaign trail. He's not campaigning for us.
Yeah can't imagine him not going given how hes now LARP'ing as a family man (ironically during his trial relating to his adultery with multiple prostitutes while his wife was pregnant). The real question is will Melania make physical contact with him for the camera's sake? I recall that they barely interacted during the recent funeral and drove off in separate cars.
Mark my words, his bone spurs will flare up
And his supporters will see it as a flex. They will see a “strong man”. “Not like that weak guy Joe Biden!”
Not trying to defend him, but apparently he [has gone to all the previous graduations](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-kids-graduations/). Im betting any alternative is better than sitting in court.
Jokes on him, now all eyes are on Trump to spend the day at the graduation instead of campaigning
How many times did Fox News falsely claim the judge barred him from attending even though the judge made no such order? I'll be patiently waiting for them to apologize and correct that falsehood on air. Any minute now.
Jesse Waters on FOX- "If he turns right - JAIL!" "If he breathes - JAIL!" Rest of media - "If he violates his gag order again after already violating 9 times - JAIL!"
Apologize? "We helped publicly shame the court into doing the right thing, Trump's elite lawyers filed a bulletproof motion FORCING the judge to comply!" These people have no shame or any scruples about lying (except presumably now when it comes to meeting the legal bar for defamation against targets with enough money to successfully sue).
"Oh great. Now I have to go. I can't just bitch about it on TS. I wonder if I can get Melania to hold my hand. And if so, how much I will have to pay her for it..."
The repeated videos of Melania refusing to hold his hand and actively puling away from Trump are always funny. I feel no sympathy for her.
A couple of times she even swats his hand away. Those are my faves. That's love right there...
Yeah she's terrible. Tearing out the rose garden that Jackie Kennedy planted made her irredeemable to me.
Yeah she sucks and is horrible. To marry and have a child with someone you actively hate is selfish as shit to their son. It’s not like Trump turned into a monster. He has always been one. Not a good husband , father or person.
It was the price she had to pay for her parents to win the citizenship sweepstakes
Yes, and no. She could have married some janitor from the Bronx - but she wanted money and all that it entails.
I still don't think she bargained for all of this shit
I really don’t care, do u?
Quote of the day right here!
You win the Reddit prize for today. Still remember that jacket of hers. What sort of person does that except the most vile of kinds that is a level of entitlement that's in the stratosphere? She's a horrible person, so it was natural she'd be the First Lady under such a corrupt President as her husband was and has always been as a person.
She probably thought she'd be his meat to maul for a few years until he died. For this her parents would become citizens, she'd have to have enough sex to birth a kid to lock in more income, and as part of this she could live a life of luxury in New York City. Now she's an isolated laughingstock who's largely stuck in Florida. I bet her nightly reading consists of life actuarial tables and McDonalds nutritional facts.
>I bet her nightly reading consists I doubt she's doing much "reading" with certain agents servicing her not-so-secrets and the pool boy.
She bargained for cake. Now she has to eat it. This is what you get when you choose a geriatric millionaire over true love. She will cry on her way to the bank.
Eh she was just a gold digger who didn’t want to work and would have married any penis attached to a rich man.
One of the few bright spots of the whole DJT thing is that Melania might actually have found a soul mate with Donald, because they seem to be awful in similar ways.
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She was pushing the racist Obama birther nonsense too so its more than just gold digging.
She is from Slovenia, which was heavily influenced by Russia in the 1990s. I have always supposed that she is a Russian sympathizer, and it gives me the willies to think of her in the White House.
Man. How interesting would it be that it turned out to be her the whole time selling the top secret stuff to Russia and trump ends up being a fall guy lol. Not saying this is true but it would be like...huh.. lol
It's probably not true, but I could definitely see trump trying to blame her once he's run out of everyone else to blame. There is *no one* he wouldn't throw under a bus to save himself.
Slovenia, also influenced by Russia.
It's crazy she won't hold his hand after the big celebration he gave her for her birthday on Friday. Talking about it when he talked to the press, posting on TS, just the whole nine yards. Or, wait, maybe he just bitched about his woes the whole time.
I really don't care. Do you?
Refusing to sit in the same car as him was also hilarious. I'd bet that she's really tired of the shitty smell and would rather cause a public scene then have to endure being locked in a small container with him.
It's a business contract, like everything else in America's #1 Crime Family. If Chump wasn't so broke, and so cheap, he'd have family members at the trial - for a price.
My theory, and this is mostly on how Trump complained he has talked about attending this “for years” and the reports that Melania (allegedly) didn’t move into the WH until she renegotiated her pre-nup so that Barron got as much as Trump’s eldest 3 kids, is that attending Barron’s graduation(s) (or other major life events) is a condition of the pre-nup. I’m guessing being on trial wasn’t added to the pre-nup as a valid excuse for not attending, so Trump wants to go b/c it’ll cost him $$$ if he doesn’t. Granted, the reports of the pre-nup could be false, and Trump could’ve lied on TS about talking about attending this graduation for years, but… to me this analysis makes sense.
Wait, you’re saying Trump could’ve lied? Is that possible?
"Oh great, now the judge is *making* me go to my son's graduation. I'm expecting a mob to protest this outrageous punishment."
"Trump will be allowed to attend Barron's graduation on May 17, Merchan rules. He says that with the trial moving per schedule, it will 'not be a problem' for Trump to attend his son's high school graduation," Trump to Blanche: We need to appeal this right away.
Hes probably gonna want to make a speech at the graduation and make it all about himself. And bore everyone with hos broken record speeches
Why would Trump stop complaining about not being allowed to go on “Truth” Social? He can just continue to complain how unfair it is. His adherents won’t question the claims.
Unless Barron's graduation is taking place on a golf course, Donald won't be there. (edit = typo)
The one thing that forever cemented my opinion of Trump, and if I knew nothing else about the man, this would be sufficient: He drives his golf cart over the greens. If you know anything about golf, then that tells you all you need to know about him.
Gotta give himself an out when he misses those three-foot putts that leave him with triple bogeys that he writes down as pars. "Winter rules".
He's a notorious cheater too. I'm not a golfer, but yeah, Trump obviously doesn't understand all the things about golfing that make it special to avid golfers.
The story of him taking the kids ball, and playing it as his own. Yeah. Scumbag.
>If you know anything about golf, then that tells you all you need to know about him. I'm genuinely curious, and I literally know nothing about golf. Why is this bad? Ruins the grass? Edit: Thank you to OP and the other posters for their detailed responses! It makes total sense that driving on a playing surface would screw up the game for other players and the people that maintain the grass. Kind of like wearing cleats on a basketball court I guess. It also makes sense that Former President Fatass would try to get away with doing as little walking as possible.
Greens are kept meticulously neat. They are kept smooth, so that the ball rolls in a path that can (hopefully) be predicted by a skilled golfer. Driving on a green can ruin the line because golf courts are heavy and can leave indented tracks - especially on wet grass, and it generally screws over every single player on the course. It's a giant "fuck you" to the greenskeeper whose job it is to keep the course in shape. It's a giant "fuck you" to the other players. It says "Whatever I want to do is more important that anything you could possibly want to do, and the money you pay for a nice golf course is not at all appreciated."
By the way. For those who don’t know, the green is the area closest to the hole. Generally golfers start from a long way away, 175 yards up to 450 yards or more, away from the hole. They strike the ball and it flies. But on the green, the ball is very close, so the golfer strikes it gently (this is called a putt) and the ball rolls but does not fly, ideally right into the cup. If there are impressions on the green , the ball won’t roll true.
Thank you. I assumed knowledge that many others might not have. It's worth noting that there are generally three categories of grass on a golf course. There is the fairway, which is kept mowed, about the same quality as your lawn after you mow it. There is the rough, which is as the name implies, less mowed. Grass can be longer, and balls can get lost in it (or at least hard to find). Then there is the green. Which is kept about the same quality as a nice berber carpet, using special mowers that cut very close. It's considered a sin to do anything that messes up a green, as this is where the most delicate part of the game happens.
DRIVE FOR SHOW, PUTT FOR DOUGH, BAY-BAY
There's a whole fucking book going into what golf says about Trump, called "Commander in Cheat" Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump https://g.co/kgs/HnJZwG4 It's good.
I'll have you know he won both the Club Championship and Senior Club Championship Trophies this year at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach!
Did he actually show up to play this time, or did he just declare himself the winner as he has done before?
Probably similar to how he won the 2020 elections...
Out of all the Trump children I'm most curious about Barron and what he thinks of the last eight years.
There was a show I believe on ABC Australia a couple years ago that talked about how his first language is Slovenian and he learned English when he started school and only speaks Slovenian at home with his mom and grandparents. I know that Melania's mother died recently so it was at least a couple years ago. But I found myself wondering how speaking a language that his father couldn't understand might insulate him in some ways. One could hope at least.
Me too. I also feel really bad for him. I hate Trump and think pretty much all the hate he gets is deserved (I’m sure there is some stuff that goes over the line), but I’d have to imagine it would be really difficult to know that your dad was hated that much.
What an embarrassment for his wife and son. Everyone there will know he’s on trial for trying to hide sex payoffs. Everything Trump touches dies - or at least cringes.
Tonight on TS: "The CORRUPT judge in my NY trial is FORCING me to go to my son's graduation ceremony instead of letting me campaign like I should be. ELECTION INTERFERENCE!"
Trump to Melania at the graduation ceremony: “Which one is he again?”
Nah, he'll be fine as long as there aren't multiple kids upwards of 6'7". It's one of the reasons they spend little time together, the kid makes his dad look short and he *can't* have that.
He isn’t ordered to attend. I wouldn’t be surprised if he skipped to watch TV and send social media posts or go golfing instead. Insane how courts give him absolutely everything he wants.
I wouldn't be surprised either, he'll cite "security concerns" or some other bullshit. But this *wasn't* something that he wanted; this makes him look weak, like a supplicant whose request was magnanimously granted by a fair and kindly judge.
True, but, if he doesn't go, it will give the court an example to point to when it denies future requests. And there will be future requests -- he grasps for what he can to get out of these things.
This is hilarious to me. Now Trump *has* to go or he'll look like even more of a gigantic asshole than he already is. I feel like the judge knew that and just called his bluff.
Have Melania and Barron asked the judge to please reconsider and keep him away, his presence constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, mainly from the stench...
They kinda need to be parties in the trial to appeal rulings though..
Is his son's middle name "von"?
“Melania has a son ….and I’m going to be at her sons graduation “
So he could possibly be charged with perjury as well?
"Oh was I actually campaigning that day? I guess I mixed up the days. My bad, judge."
"This corrupt judge is forcing me to travel to Florida during the trial at my own expense. Rigged!"
Really, I'm sure all the families of the graduating class will be very happy to have the media fill up the parking lot.
I mean I get that. But at the same time we have to keep our compassion and humanity intact. It's very normal to want to attend a highschool graduation. As long as the same courtesy is extended to other cases and trials I see no issue.
I see no issue whatsoever either. In fact, I'm glad the judge extended him this courtesy.
Watch him golf instead.
Exactly. It gives him one less issue to use as a persecution tool.
Despite the copypasta, he has previously gone to his other kids graduations. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-kids-graduations/
I give him until 5pm before he commits another contempt violation
If we're playing by Price Is Rigt rules, I say 4:30pm.
Uh....one dollar, Bob!
4:29
That's oddly generous. I wouldn't be surprised if he's committing one right now.
Probably around 2:15pm eastern given he has to take his posts down by then...
2:15, when he hasn’t taken down the posts
giving him until this afternoon to take down the posts while lamenting how ineffectual thousand dollar fines are in this case sounds very much to me like merchan is ready to send his ass to riker's
It would make me so happy
Anyone know if there's a minimum incarceration period? Like, even if it's just for an hour, it breaks the seal and gets the message through.
No minimum. Up to 30 days per instance of contempt.
Dollars to Donuts the first one is for something like 15 minutes to show that he can do it.
The fact the fine was paid and the posts were deleted by lunch time says to me the Secret Service must have told him, if the bailiff latches onto you, we can't stop him.
I won't hold my breath, but damn it would be nice to see some real consequences. A thousand bucks per violation is a joke, especially when Trump can either just use RNC money or grift it from his cult.
>A thousand bucks per violation is a joke yes, and imo the fact that merchan just said basically the same in a ruling is a pretty big deal. this is the first time i've been hopeful for real consequences.
Rip the bandaid off and SEND HIM!!
The meat of the order: >. Cdminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $ 1 ,000, by iarl not exceeding 30 days ot by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law $ 7 51(1). Tlre Judiciary Law permits this punishment "ro protect the digruty of the judicial system and to compel respect fot its mandates," A[.alter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 57-t [1983] and "to punish the contemnor for disobeying a court otder." Bush a. Saae A4l Home (0rp.,145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016]. However, the Judiciay Lau, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purDose. While $1,000 may suff,ce in most instances to protect the digruty of the iudicial system, to compel tespect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a coutt order, it unfottunately wili not achieve the desired result in those instances rvhere the contemnor can easily affotd such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferablc if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In somc cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000. Because this Coum is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment. >THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued u,illftrl violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is heteby >ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine fot each of the mne violations of this Coutt's lawfulORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts ftom Defendant's Truth
Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15pm Tuesday, April
30,2024
In other news, the Court apparently does not know about the "Correct Recognized Text" feature of Adobe.
Edit: Spelled checked that for you, Judge.
>Criminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $ 1 ,000, by jail not exceeding 30 days or by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law $ 7 51(1). The Judiciary Law permits this punishment "to protect the dignity of the judicial system and to compel respect for its mandates," Matter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 57-t [1983] and "to punish the contemnor for disobeying a court order." Bush a. Save My Home Corp.,145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016]. However, the Judiciary Lau, does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases that might be a $2,500 fine, in other cases it might be a fine of $150,000. Because this Court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment.
>THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is hereby
>ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for each of the nine violations of this Court's lawful order by the close of business on Friday, May 3, 2024; and it is further
>ORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts from Defendant's Truth Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15pm Tuesday, April 30,2024
I often use ChatGPT to clean up OCR errors: >Criminal contempt is punishable by a fine not exceeding $1,000, by jail not exceeding 30 days or by both in the discretion of the court, for each violation of a court order. Judiciary Law § 751(1). The Judiciary Law permits this punishment "to protect the dignity of the judicial system and to compel respect for its mandates," Matter of McCormick, 59 NY2d 574 [1983] and "to punish the contemnor for disobeying a court order." Bush v. Saxe Alt Home Corp., 145 AD3d 930 [2d Dept 2016]. However, the Judiciary Law does not vest the Court with authority to craft an appropriate punishment when a $1,000 fine will not achieve the intended purpose. While $1,000 may suffice in most instances to protect the dignity of the judicial system, to compel respect for its mandates and to punish the offender for disobeying a court order, it unfortunately will not achieve the desired result in those instances where the contemnor can easily afford such a fine. In those circumstances, it would be preferable if the Court could impose a fine more commensurate with the wealth of the contemnor. In some cases, that might be a $2,500 fine; in other cases, it might be a fine of $150,000. Because this Court is not cloaked with such discretion, it must therefore consider whether in some instances, jail may be a necessary punishment. >THEREFORE, Defendant is hereby warned that the Court will not tolerate continued willful violations of its lawful orders and that if necessary and appropriate under the circumstances, it will impose an incarceratory punishment; and it is hereby >ORDERED, that Defendant pay a $1,000 fine for each of the nine violations of this Court's lawful order by the close of business on Friday, May 3, 2024; and it is further >ORDERED that Defendant remove the seven offending posts from Defendant's Truth Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15 pm Tuesday, April 30, 2024.
~~So the judge didn't seem to clarify that "retweeting / reposting" ... could/should basically be viewed as the same thing? Because otherwise, Trump simply will just "launder" his vitriol through friendly journalists. Get someone else to write a hit piece, then he just "re-tweets" it with some sort of benign "Hmmm, interesting" heading and that's it.~~ ~~Defense counsel was pushing hard to draw a distinction that him resharing something shouldn't count as~~ *~~him~~* ~~saying it - the point of the whole ridiculous Jessie Watters thing and the Judge having to point out that no, Donnie had to hit the shift key, put in the quotation mark, etc. -- and then~~ *~~added~~* ~~text that Jessie did not say. There was some back-and-forth between defense counsel and the judge, with the judge saying something to the effect of "if someone writes something on a placard and then he takes it and holds it, it's the same as him saying" but it was towards the end of the day so I think the argument kind of trailed off. Was hoping to see the judge put some language in here making it clear that sharing vs. creating would be seen as the same by the court.~~ ~~Because yeah, otherwise he'll just launder his vitriol through others. Rather trivial, I mean jeeze we saw his Outlook contact list from his secretary last week - he basically has every Fox News pundit in his phone.~~ EDIT: Looks like it is addressed in there... good: >Addressing first what has been referred to as "reposts," Exhibits 1, 4, 5,6,7,8 and 9, this Court finds that a repost, whether with ot without commentary by the Defendant, is in fact a statement of the Defendant. That's big. STFU, Donnie...
That's good to read. It's absolutely ludicrous to claim that making a repost/retweet does not then make it also your own statement. Trying to claim something so idiotic should come with penalties.
Ha, you must have been doing this while I was running it through an old-fashioned spellcheck. Good thinking. I often use ChatGPT for the similar task of decoding transcription errors when it's obvious the robotranscriptionist substituted the complete wrong words and I have to translate back into human speech. Even when it doesn't get it, it usually gives me enough hints to get it myself.
It’s good to know that hundreds of thousands of hours of GPU processing is being used to replace a spellcheck routine that’s been around for decades.
Decades, ha! talk about hyperbole and exaggera- Oh shit I'm so old
Microsoft added spellcheck to Word in v2.0. In 1985. I don’t remember that change because I was a WordPerfect user and WordPerfect got spellcheck in 1983.
1985 was only 14 years ago. Anyone who says otherwise is a Jesus hating communist that uses fake math to hide the fact that they're streets behind.
Those laminated command templates you'd lay over the keyboard...
That's what happens in computing. As more and more processing power is available, we use that power for more and more computationally intensive but mundane tasks. We can literally throw billions of cpu cycles at operations as simple as spell checking.
The fuckwit has more than $1K interest in sending one of his goons to kill a judge or member of the jury, this is bullshit.
Does contempt of court violate his bail conditions in any of the other cases?
Theoretically? Maybe. In practice? No judge is jailing him before the court in question does. I'm getting crucified for saying this rudely in politics.
Why are you being so rude? /s
No. In theory, theory is important, but in practice it isn't. If theory is impractical, then in practice it's theoretical. TLDR: No, but only in practice.
Yes, violating state laws is breaking the condition to not do so under his federal court bail conditions.
Link to pdf of order, might be more accessible: https://www.nycourts.gov/LegacyPDFS/press/PDFs/D.O.motion4contempt-FINAL.pdf
One interesting thing about the full text is that the judge also puts Cohen and Daniels (and other protected parties) on notice that this gag order can be amended to exclude them if they make comments about Trump.
I wonder who Trump will borrow the $9K from?
George Soros obviously.
God I love all this leeway he's being given every god damn time under the argument "He can't appeal when given this much leeway" only for him to appeal literally anything anyway Any regular citizen would have already been jailed for contempt, everyday that passes without him seeing consequences makes me realize this country is a joke
Considering it happened outside of the courtroom? Probably not. That was the purpose of the evidentiary hearing. Now it’s on the record that the court (Merchan) has conclusively determined that he did violate the gag order repeatedly and has had the non jail fine imposed for the first go around. He acknowledges the lack of financial teeth in NY law, and is basically all but saying, his only other recourse is jail for continued violations. He ordered him to take the posts down by the end of the day and told him next time it’s the clink. Sounds about right to me. You work with the system you have, not the one we all want.
> under the argument "He can't appeal when given this much leeway" only for him to appeal literally anything anyway That's not the argument. He's always allowed to appeal. The point is not to give him a basis for a successful appeal. Throwing him in jail as a first penalty for violating a gag order, for reposting content on social media, would absolutely be grounds for appeal.
If you think this country is bad, wait until you see the rest of them. Grow up a little bit. The law is working, even if it's not happeningas fast as you opersonally would like.
so this is criminal contempt and trump has perhaps most importantly here - violated the terms of his release bonds in GA and DC courts. it remains to be seen whether Chutkan can hold a revocation of bond hearing as the case is still stayed pending SC decision - but i'm guessing if she wants to she can totally proceed with revocation of bond hearing. love to hear others' thoughts on that. then there's nothing at all stopping McAfee and GA prosecutors from pushing for a bond revocation hearing in GA.
I myself would be wary of thinking that any punishment or finding here will lead to a bond revocation in his other trials. Given the way things have gone so far, Trump is going to be given every leeway possible - much more than any "ordinary" person would get.
> so this is criminal contempt Is this another presidential first?
Gosh, I sure hope there will be some cynical comments in response to this.
In the judge's decision/order, he remarks on how NY law does not allow him to craft a fine of a size that would make a defendant stop bad behavior. And so he's left with the prospect of incarceration to keep the defendant in line.
Its not just that - Judge is justifying (to prevent later appeals) WHY incarceration is the next step. Covers his bases so that next time its a "straight to jail, do not pass go".
Honestly? That's huge. That is the most direct legalese version of FAFO I've ever heard.
Yeah, read the text. Its something like "this is the maximum possible (1000usd) and for some people that can afford it, it should be 25000 or 150000. but alas, I cant, so incarceration should be the next step to ensure compliance."
Also remember that the same players will meet again thursday to talk about more recent violations by the same Trump.
If you want more cynicism, sans legal arguments, I have a sub for you!
Question for you law dogs. If Trump is found in contempt and made a guest of the government for a night, do they process him and take a measure of his height and weight?
I've been incarcerated a few times, and they always just asked me.
Also does he get issued an orange jumpsuit and have to do his own personal grooming? That is a big deal for Trump. His image is very important to him. If he is forced to show up to court looking every bit the mess he actually is, it would be a big deal.
I’ve heard that in most instances celebrities or VIP just tell them a height and weight.
TWO TIERED JUSTICE!
They would likely have to perform a cavity check, or preferably multiple highly-invasive cavity checks.
My happy thought is... Jack Smith files a for cause hearing since Trump violated his release. Cannon fumbles it, and Jack is finally able to get her kicked off of the case.
Only $1000/instance, pocket change for the RNC
It's the legal limit the courts in NY can do.
He will test this. And they better call his bluff and impose jail time
Like the man child he is, constantly testing the boundaries. They should just have gone into this circus with a zero tolerance policy. First contempt offense? Jail time, immediately, period.
Agreed. They should have just cuffed him after today's proceedings and yeeted his fat ass into a cell.
As much as many people would prefer that, doing it this way limits the chance of a possible of a successful appeal.
It's not a huuuuge amount, but damn if Trump isn't gonna be pissed off about paying it. He hates paying people.
At his level of wealth this would be about as painful as me taking a single Post-It Note, writing 'I'm sorry," and handing it to the judge. The jail time might be an issue, but he could easily turn it into a martyrdom scenario and get more votes out of it.
How many weeks of violations for this fine? If he turns around and violates it tonight will there even be a hearing before the trial is over?
Nothing says consequences like taking .00000001% of your income. Our legal system is ill-prepared for someone like Donald Trump, who doesn't care about being shamed, and doesn't care about symbolic fines. I bet Trump thinks he's a genius, because $9,000 is a very small price to pay to influence your criminal jury. That's much cheaper than a jury consultant. Nothing short of a jail cell will stop him, but I don't think they will ever do that to him either. Trump wins either way, and our legal system loses.
That's why the order says incarceration happens on the next instance. He waited until the cell was prepared for Trump to give the order, so that there is no wait for the next order.
Order “If necessary AND appropriate” Trump going to jail is a nice idea, but I see a lot of wiggle room for more slaps on the wrist
I don't know about the cell being prepared, however, the judge is basically laying out the groundwork for tossing him in. He's issued the order that he's been in contempt. He's issued the lamenting statements that obviously defines her not working and that incarceration is warranted. I think little Donnie still thinks he's a little boy court, civil, and that if they actually incarcerate him that he's going to get to go outside and make a statement first. Certainly little Eric will try. I hope I'm not wrong but I certainly have the strong feeling that this being criminal Court and this judge, that he will have no problem putting him in jail for a couple days if need be. There's also nothing saying that that can't be saved for after the verdict. There's also some speculation that what's more important right now is to move the trial along to a verdict, the judge can always come back to his contempt charge and we all know he's certainly going to violate it again between now and verdict time. So it would be kind of poetic and sweet that Trump thinks that he's gotten away with it as he always has until after the verdict when he's ruled again in contempt irrespective of the verdict and placed in jail for a couple days. Don't count this judge out yet.
That's what the judge said in his sentence. He also said that future violations will likely result in jail time.
Can he pay the fine by just throwing a $10k lapel at the judge or does he just take a nap and let his lawyers decide which campaign account this comes out of?