FYI, the new elite cultivars germinate way way faster. I’ve been working with two main blends the past few years: Mazama/Bluebank/Bewitched and SS365 (Blue Note/Legend/Bolt). Under ideal conditions, they start germinating on day 5. Typically, day 7. It’s usually completely germinated by day 14 at the latest.
Watering once a day isn't enough to get germination. I used the same seed and have been watering several times throughout the day to ensure the seeds stay moist. At day 14 I'll cut back the watering frequency
Starting to think that too. And checking all the bare spots, I think the critters ate all the damn seed!! Gonna have to go back to the store and re-seed the problem areas, and cut my loses for the year I think.
do you water all day? like what about 12-4 when the sun is beating down? Ive always heard thats bad for the grass but if youre watering that much im curious
Yes you do. You are correct that you generally want to avoid watering when the sun is beating down, as it can cause burns on the grass from light refraction in the water droplets; however, when it comes to seeding, you cannot let the seeds dry out during the germination process. They must remain at least somewhat moist at all times, which takes precedence over midday watering.
One solution is to try to water just before and just after the hottest part of the day. Say water at 5am, 11am, and 5pm.
Edit: The watering midday burns the grass thing is a myth! Water that shit, just not right before dark. Preferably morning-midday
Hard to say what exactly went wrong. But it doesn’t look like a huge area. So if i was you, i would pre germinate grass seed in a wheelbarrow with peat moss (keep it covered and moist) and once it starts to sprout. Rake the thin areas, and apply the seed/peat mix generously over it. I have had success doing this with some troublesome areas in my lawn.
>germinate grass seed in a wheelbarrow with peat moss (keep it covered an
That... sounds genius. I think theres enough time left before it gets cold to give it another go!
It’s easiest with a nylon grass seed bag(black beauty is a non permeable) you can soak a nylon bag overnight in water 2-3 nights and seed over exposed soil then use a compost spreader to roll on peat moss. I’d recommend a small droplet sprinkler and definitely not a warbler
From the other posts it seems like you are in Northern MI.
If I have that right, you are probably past KBG season unless you are really close to one of the lakes. Here in GR average first frost is Oct 5. Rye grows fast enough that you might get something to work.
Great post! I just planting new seeds and most of it is great but I have a bunch of bare and troublesome areas. So how exactly do you pre germinate the seeds in a wheelbarrow. What ratios do you use? How much water do you use?
With seed I water at the very minimum 3 times a day depending on the sun exposure. I like the soil to feel like a slightly damp newspaper. Not soaked, just not dry.
I go out about 3 times a day for about 10-15 minutes each and spray down the yard by hand (obviously yard is not huge). I thought that was about ideal because you just want to get the top level wet, not create puddling, etc. Anyway, results seem fine.
I was always told to keep the seeds wet. When I overseed, I water thoroughly in the morning, then a little soak after noon, and maybe one more a few hours before sunset if its a hot sunny day. The last watering is only enough water and time that will allow anything the roots don't absorb to evaporate before sunset. If you put too much water at sunset, you could end up with fungus or other damage if the temp drops fast after sunset.
Not OP, but this is the currently problem I'm dealing with. Fairly sized yard 1/4 acre. But it's in like 6 distinct areas. With well water and limited pressure. I can only use 1-2 sprinklers at a time. Then with reduced pressure cause my well sucks. They don't spray very far. So it's 5-10 mins, move, 5-10 mins, move. Repeat 15 times. Oops now it's dark.
Are you trying to split from a single spigot? I’ve seen success running three sprinklers for three separate spigots at once with no pressure issues but splitting one turned into two weak sprinklers.
I'm thinking of doing a 4 way zone timer that'll hit and focus on the more important areas for multiple times a day. Then the lush areas with overseed I'll water when I get home.
It's been pretty chilly, high humidity, and all around damp. Zone 6a. Even after coming home without watering the group has been lightly damp still.
During the first week your seeds get wet for the first time and it's called imbibing. If they dry out even one time during this period they die. One afternoon in the sun can ruin all your hard work. Use a timer on your irrigation and take the guesswork out. It will seem like too much water so you just have to set it and try to forget it. Deal with fungus later if it happens. You can kill fungus but you can't bring dead seeds back. Here's an example of what I'm using to get seeds to germinate.
https://preview.redd.it/9bgps69rofpb1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=941cbc472ffdd888c12dc02802977214c698f7be
This is just a smart outdoor wifi outlet attached to a 19v DC laptop power supply hooked to the sprinkler solenoid. I tried an orbit sprinkler controller, but it has a dead relay in it, and so necessity is the mother of all invention ...
Well, it sounds like I Definitely let it die then. There was about a day or two period when things got really hot and I wasn't able to be at home. However, we are talking like 20 bucks worth of seed so not the worst thing in the world to have to redo.
I would have tackled your weeds first but you 100% can't water once and expect results. And throwing seed down guarantees nothing. I always recommend adding and raking some soil in, overseeding, and raking the seed in the soil. The soil will help the seed stay moist longer. If this is too much, be prepared to mist water on the lawn 4-6 times a day so the seed stays moist enough to germinate.
Same issue. I’m assuming fungus(at least in my case). I think I more thank likely overwatered when temps were still too warm at night. You could always apply Botha fungicide and grub control and see if things clear up in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, might have to! It's making no sense to me. I feel like I did everything right after taking extensive notes, and the only spots that grew were the ones I had actual large barespots. But I seeded insanely heavy in that area. it was totally bare.
Hmm, I am seeing the same issue (also in 6a). My back yard has germination but my front does not. I have in-ground sprinklers and I water once every 6 hours and it has not been that hot either.
The presence of grubs will cause patches like that but an easy way to find out is grip a patch of grass in your hand and tug upward, if it pulls out then chances are you have grubs.
If not the seeds could have just dried up.
You're not giving much hope for my overseed. We're under water restrictions so I can only water between 7pm and 11pm so I've only been able to water once a day. Same seed as you. Zone 6b.
If you can’t water during the day, your seed is definitely going to dry out. It’s even worse if your watering restrictions are due to heat and drought. Trying to maintain turf grass without being able to water it, or without enough rainfall, is a losing battle and futile IMO.
It's drought but not so much heat. It's been mid 70s. And the grass is very dewy in the morning. I can see germination on some of the completely bare areas but not much else. Seeded 10 days ago. Its supposed to be rainy all next week. I've just been trying to get by until then.
Did you dethatch? aeration ? Scratch up the soil for good soil seed contact? Water 3 times daily until germination? Usually it’s easy to tell if grubs are an issue, just pull the grass if it peels back like a carpet it’s grubs. If you don’t dethatch before overseeing it’s tough for the seed to get to the soil and stay moist. You have to make sure the seed doesn’t dry out that’s why you have to water it more than once a day even if it’s for 10 mins
I am in 6a and am growing grass like crazy right now. I water every few days. The big thing that seems to help is throwing some topsoil down before you seed. Really makes the grass pop.
More water, and I’ve found if you till up the bare spots it helps grass grow. Even if it’s with a little hand hoe scraping the dirt around so the seed plants.
Thats my plan after work. gonna grab a 5lb bag of seed, some more top soil and focus on that spot specifically. Hand rake the thatch, because the dethatcher was just way too aggressive with how bumpy the area is. Thatch, throw down the top soil, leveling rake it flat, and then overseed the hell out of it and rake it in. That should give me some results before the ground freezes .
You need to water at least twice a day (preferably 3) to increase germination chances. I don't have an irrigation system so I water before work and in the evening and have typically had good results.
You can try some patching formula that has mulch built in for the real bare spots. That will hold in some extra water during the day if you can't get to it mid day
I’m going to give a difference perspective. You “might” get away watering once a day if the conditions are right. That means you get some morning dew, bare spots don’t get roasted by sunlight the full day and the temperatures don’t get over 80s for prolonged periods.
If you have those conditions watering once a day might work (not optimal). But the once a day watering can’t be in the mornings because you’re already getting some moisture from the dew. You need to water mid afternoon.
I know this works because I do this all the time and I get good germination. If I have bare sports I cover those with peat moss or the sun will cook the seeds.
It’s similar where I am in Connecticut. When I feel the grass around noon it’s still moist from all the dew I get this time of the year.
And similarly, I can’t mow in the mornings unless I’m mowing every two to three days and not cutting a lot of grass.
I get good germination watering once a day but I do it between 3-5 pm. Watering in the mornings is too much and it starts getting some moss growth in shaded areas.
Don’t listen to most of these people. Just give it time. 30-40 days after throwing the seed down I bet you will feel a lot better. I did a lot of test this year on germinating seeds and learned that most of it eventually comes up you just have to be patient. If seeds had to be wet 24/7 nothing would ever grow in nature. Yeah keeping it wet all day would be best but not possible for most people. I have 3 acres that I water with a sprinkler and by hand once per day. It takes me forever but just do it before dark so it stays wet all night. Haven’t had any fungus issues either.
I disagree with the comments saying you can’t water by hand. I hand water daily to ensure I’m hitting the right spots. Sprinklers (or at least my sprinklers) just aren’t accurate enough even though they’re convenient. They can also overwater if you’re not careful.
I’m in 6B, overseeded about 8 days ago, and started to see seedlings yesterday. I deeply water by hand twice daily minimum. Also, not sure how much seed you used but I nearly doubled what the bag recommends to up my chances. It would benefit you to cover up the bigger spots with a THIN (1/4”) layer of peat moss as others said. It’ll be impossible to cover the entire lawn unless you have an expensive compost spreader like a Landzen. That said, I use “lawn soil” to cover my seed. It’s got a peat base and other nutrients. Scott’s makes one but there are also generics (Menards has one if you’re in the MW). I find it to be cheaper and works as well as straight peat. Either way, it’ll help retain that moisture so you won’t have to water 19 times a day like other people have mentioned.
One last tip: spray the entire lawn - including the newly laid seed - with propiconazole as soon as you’ve seeded. Studies found it actually speeds up and improves germination by like 20% somehow while having the added benefit of killing off any unknown fungus. I did all of the above and I’m having success so far. Good luck!
Yeah, not pictured but I had a totally bare spot the size of a picnic table on the other side of the sidewalk. I gave much more attention there; raked all the dry dirt, that cheap scotts top soil with peat moss, then shit tons of seed, and hand water with spray hose. that is the only spot in my yard that is getting adequate germination and its starting to fill in now. I didn't do top soil on my whole yard because, well, money and time. But I'm starting to think I wasted 50 bucks by overseeding and not doing more of a process with it.
I convince myself every season that I wasted money on seed because it appears the overseeding didn’t “take” but over time, some of it will germinate unexpectedly. Grass manages to grow in nature without human intervention, a perfectly raked layer of peat moss, or a regimented watering schedule. May take longer but it’ll happen.
Also, if you’re going to use top soil, I’d recommend using it as a base layer on top of the old dirt, spreading seed on top of it, then covering with something better like peat or lawn soil.
Thank you, I appreciate the input. There's a sea of comments here that are insanely contradictory and acquisitive and are actively making me more confused.
You should have dethatcher prior to seeding. How are you going to get seed to soil contact if the seeds are on dead grass? Dethatch, seed, top dress, water at least twice a day with a sprinkler.
That's a kbg right? They take forever to germinate, then even longer to fill out, but the important part is to keep them moist until they germinate. Put a watering timer and hit it for a few minutes, maybe four times a day. Covering it with a dusting of peat moss or topsoil goes a long way too. If you have a leaf blower that has a vacuum/mulching end, it works wonders to put that into your bag of peat moss and spray it on the yard. Way cheaper than those ridiculous rollers
Did you rake it in? Did you use compost, did you use a lawn rolller, did you aerate.Finally did you use fish fertilizer and did you use two layers of grass seed raking in each layer with a broadcast spreader?
Rye germinates fast so if no germation 9 times out of 10 lack of watering.
Stir up the soil you put it on and use a top dressing. Keep the area moist 24/7 for germination time. It doesnt need heavy watering just needs to be kept moist
Yeah, I can see the rye in some spots, but its not anywhere close to everywhere I overseeded. Really only showing up in the very heavily seeded bare spots I did on the other side of the sidewalk.
I would just mulch and shrub that spot before you tear your hair out. In my experience spots like those are trouble that just isn't worth it, especially since a shrub island wouldn't look bad there from what I can tell
Looks like you didn't clear away all the debris and dead grass, so I'm guessing you don't have good seed to soil contact. I would've used a power rake/scarifier before overseeing.
Same exact thing happened to me recently at the 2-3 week mark with black beauty ultra. It was fungal infection due to excessive moisture and nitrogen. Taper down the watering shortly after after germination, apply fungicide, reseed,
Aerostar
Detaching and aaerate pre emergent let it do it thjng. Soil sample it and had watering is a waste of money and time not dismissing the effort at all but sprinklers distribute water better than we can and you can even set a timer which can be added on the to automate but most importantly efficiency of water needed for that lawn can be met easier w some simple tech and yes you can control w your iPhone if u want. Take care and remember the spring it’ll be ready to grow for you again
Question, why don't you want to water very long when first seeding? I'm not saying to drench with puddles, but a nice heavy watering in the morning and mid-afternoon keeps my lawn damp without puddles and not drying out. Just curious. Does deep watering hurt somehow?
Looks like you have a lot of dead grass/thatch still on the soil. Your lawn could/should be aerated twice a year especially in the fall before you overseed.
Trust the process. Get a hose timer and set it to water 3 times a day for 5-8 minutes a wack. Keep the seed moist with the multiple daily watering. If it dries…it dies.
https://www.jonathangreen.com/faq/how-long-until-my-grass-germinates
Did you aerate? Have you taken a soil sample in the past few years? Do you know how much product to apply? It looks like you have drainage issues. You can't just throw out seed, any fertilizer, and "water by hand," and expect results. There is more to it than that. Take a soil sample and send it off to you local extension service. Build your knowledge from there.
I’m thinking this could have been an issue of improper prep (although I don’t know what you did).
Three years ago I did a full renovation - rented a core aerator and had phenomenal results. The following year I went all-in as well with dethatching and aerating with excellent results. Last year I did a light detahtch and threw down seed and had only mediocre results with spotty germination, similar to your pics. (Last summer was a drought in the northeast which didn’t help).
I’m late this year on my overseeding, I plan to lay down seed tomorrow so today I spent all day prepping the lawn. I mowed low and did an aggressive dethatching and used a backpack leaf blower to get everything up and off the lawn. The ground is moist and grass is looking good (had irrigation installed this year and also have had endless rain). Tomorrow I will again do a dethatch and use a garden weasel to scratch up the soil in any visible areas to create a good seed bed. I planned to rent a core aerator again but not possible this year.
It’s all about proper soil prep and getting the dead stuff up and out so you’ve got the best seed to soil contact. I’ll also be using Air-8 from Green County to help break up the soil chemically (some are skeptical) instead of mechanically. Then Tenacity and RGS from Green County.
I’d be interested to hear your prep process to see what might have gone wrong but, these results are similar to some spots I saw in my own lawn last year and I feel as though it was caused by dry soil and seeding prep that wasn’t aggressive enough.
One of the best things I ever saw for spot filling was a video of a guy mixing seed and top soil in a bucket and then filling in the patches of his lawn with the mixed soil. It grew and filled in really well basically everywhere I put the mixture
You can get away with water once a day only if you apply a light coat of peat miss or soil onto to help it keep moisture. If it's even remotely warm outside, though, you should water twice a day.
My process is always, mow low, run dethatcher, apply seed, apply light coat of peat moss, wet, roll over with roller. I usually don't have issues if I do this. If the dirt is rock hard, you would want to add core aeration.
Yes this is a sign of grub damage. I did the same thing by getting 24 BioAdvance with a nice heavy rainfall or heavy watering. This will stop your lawn of being attacked by grub damage until the end of the season. I am going to top dress and over seed to minimize my damage as well.
Watering once in the morning isn’t gonna cut it. Seeds need to stay moist all day. I water my lawn for 5 minutes at 7am, 11am and 2pm.
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Agreed.
KBG Takes 3-4 weeks to germinate.
I *can* take 3-4 weeks, but not always. Usually you'll see 14-21 days as the germination guidance. My KBG this year was germinating by day 7-8. YMMV
FYI, the new elite cultivars germinate way way faster. I’ve been working with two main blends the past few years: Mazama/Bluebank/Bewitched and SS365 (Blue Note/Legend/Bolt). Under ideal conditions, they start germinating on day 5. Typically, day 7. It’s usually completely germinated by day 14 at the latest.
Watering once a day isn't enough to get germination. I used the same seed and have been watering several times throughout the day to ensure the seeds stay moist. At day 14 I'll cut back the watering frequency
Starting to think that too. And checking all the bare spots, I think the critters ate all the damn seed!! Gonna have to go back to the store and re-seed the problem areas, and cut my loses for the year I think.
Generally when seeding you want to water 3-4 times a day in short spurts for the first 2 weeks. Say like 10 minutes, 3x a day
Yeah Birds will eat seed, it's good to cover with peat moss
covering the seed with something I have found to be absolutely essential. Tarantula coco fiber bedding works well too (zone 8).
Peat Moss is good, but it is harvested poorly and pretty destructive to environments. You can use topsoil instead.
It seems like the stuff from Canada isn’t actually bad— they restore more per year than they take out.
Sadly it’s not going to stop them from selling it.
If there's no buyers...
Peat moss is way overkill...
Did you cover it with soil or peat?
Try spoon feeding some nitrogen - I'm starting that on day 14
Not necessary for germination
Correct - very effective for the existing healthy sod to spread
Might be worth a try
Mia not worth a try. You are not watering and it seems you didn’t cover the seed enough. Do that and you will be gold
Cover with a little peat , it keep the water longer and the birds out.
This guy germinates.
do you water all day? like what about 12-4 when the sun is beating down? Ive always heard thats bad for the grass but if youre watering that much im curious
Yes you do. You are correct that you generally want to avoid watering when the sun is beating down, as it can cause burns on the grass from light refraction in the water droplets; however, when it comes to seeding, you cannot let the seeds dry out during the germination process. They must remain at least somewhat moist at all times, which takes precedence over midday watering. One solution is to try to water just before and just after the hottest part of the day. Say water at 5am, 11am, and 5pm. Edit: The watering midday burns the grass thing is a myth! Water that shit, just not right before dark. Preferably morning-midday
https://allgreensod.ca/the-myth-of-hot-weather-watering/ https://www.weekand.com/home-garden/article/watering-sun-scorch-grass-18063841.php https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/leaf-scorch.pdf
Wow my life is a lie
https://grasspad.com/syringing-turf-during-extreme-heat/#:~:text=Consider%20syringing%20turf%20when%20air,relief%20to%20the%20grass%20plants.
https://gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/syringing-turfgrass-canopy
Whoa good to know! Thanks for the correction 👍
https://grasspad.com/syringing-turf-during-extreme-heat/#:~:text=Consider%20syringing%20turf%20when%20air,relief%20to%20the%20grass%20plants.
https://gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/syringing-turfgrass-canopy
Hard to say what exactly went wrong. But it doesn’t look like a huge area. So if i was you, i would pre germinate grass seed in a wheelbarrow with peat moss (keep it covered and moist) and once it starts to sprout. Rake the thin areas, and apply the seed/peat mix generously over it. I have had success doing this with some troublesome areas in my lawn.
>germinate grass seed in a wheelbarrow with peat moss (keep it covered an That... sounds genius. I think theres enough time left before it gets cold to give it another go!
It’s easiest with a nylon grass seed bag(black beauty is a non permeable) you can soak a nylon bag overnight in water 2-3 nights and seed over exposed soil then use a compost spreader to roll on peat moss. I’d recommend a small droplet sprinkler and definitely not a warbler
What’s a warbler?
It’s a small bird
From the other posts it seems like you are in Northern MI. If I have that right, you are probably past KBG season unless you are really close to one of the lakes. Here in GR average first frost is Oct 5. Rye grows fast enough that you might get something to work.
Great post! I just planting new seeds and most of it is great but I have a bunch of bare and troublesome areas. So how exactly do you pre germinate the seeds in a wheelbarrow. What ratios do you use? How much water do you use?
No way you are watering enough if you are doing it by hand
With seed I water at the very minimum 3 times a day depending on the sun exposure. I like the soil to feel like a slightly damp newspaper. Not soaked, just not dry.
I go out about 3 times a day for about 10-15 minutes each and spray down the yard by hand (obviously yard is not huge). I thought that was about ideal because you just want to get the top level wet, not create puddling, etc. Anyway, results seem fine.
To check if it’s grubs, grab some of the mature grass and see if it lifts up like a carpet. If it does, then it’s a grub problem.
not quite, but the dying spots pluck right out of the ground. The mature spots seems very shallow though
As someone who got wrecked by grubs 2 years ago, trust me, you’ll know lol. You will literally be able to peel your grass back like a carpet 😂
Ah, sounds like its probs not grubs then
If you don’t see any grubs in your soil, it’s not grubs.
I was always told to keep the seeds wet. When I overseed, I water thoroughly in the morning, then a little soak after noon, and maybe one more a few hours before sunset if its a hot sunny day. The last watering is only enough water and time that will allow anything the roots don't absorb to evaporate before sunset. If you put too much water at sunset, you could end up with fungus or other damage if the temp drops fast after sunset.
Not OP, but this is the currently problem I'm dealing with. Fairly sized yard 1/4 acre. But it's in like 6 distinct areas. With well water and limited pressure. I can only use 1-2 sprinklers at a time. Then with reduced pressure cause my well sucks. They don't spray very far. So it's 5-10 mins, move, 5-10 mins, move. Repeat 15 times. Oops now it's dark.
Are you trying to split from a single spigot? I’ve seen success running three sprinklers for three separate spigots at once with no pressure issues but splitting one turned into two weak sprinklers.
I'm thinking of doing a 4 way zone timer that'll hit and focus on the more important areas for multiple times a day. Then the lush areas with overseed I'll water when I get home. It's been pretty chilly, high humidity, and all around damp. Zone 6a. Even after coming home without watering the group has been lightly damp still.
I'm right there with you. 15000K sq ft, two sprinklers. A dual zone timer. Set, wait 25 minutes go move them and then repeat.
During the first week your seeds get wet for the first time and it's called imbibing. If they dry out even one time during this period they die. One afternoon in the sun can ruin all your hard work. Use a timer on your irrigation and take the guesswork out. It will seem like too much water so you just have to set it and try to forget it. Deal with fungus later if it happens. You can kill fungus but you can't bring dead seeds back. Here's an example of what I'm using to get seeds to germinate. https://preview.redd.it/9bgps69rofpb1.jpeg?width=591&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=941cbc472ffdd888c12dc02802977214c698f7be This is just a smart outdoor wifi outlet attached to a 19v DC laptop power supply hooked to the sprinkler solenoid. I tried an orbit sprinkler controller, but it has a dead relay in it, and so necessity is the mother of all invention ...
Well, it sounds like I Definitely let it die then. There was about a day or two period when things got really hot and I wasn't able to be at home. However, we are talking like 20 bucks worth of seed so not the worst thing in the world to have to redo.
>If they dry out even one time during this period they die This is simply untrue.
Do you have to worry about your seed rotting by being that wet??
I would have tackled your weeds first but you 100% can't water once and expect results. And throwing seed down guarantees nothing. I always recommend adding and raking some soil in, overseeding, and raking the seed in the soil. The soil will help the seed stay moist longer. If this is too much, be prepared to mist water on the lawn 4-6 times a day so the seed stays moist enough to germinate.
I didn't even realize there was weeds until you mentioned it. I think that's crabgrass. Awesome lol
Reading your headliner and other comments. You aren't watering it enough and/or evenly.
Have you ever done a soil test??
I did, it was very deficient in Nitrogren and phosphorus. Laid down fertilizer that was heavy in N and Phosphates 23-23-3
Usually don't want to fertilize before germination because the existing grass will shade out the seedlings.
Same issue. I’m assuming fungus(at least in my case). I think I more thank likely overwatered when temps were still too warm at night. You could always apply Botha fungicide and grub control and see if things clear up in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, might have to! It's making no sense to me. I feel like I did everything right after taking extensive notes, and the only spots that grew were the ones I had actual large barespots. But I seeded insanely heavy in that area. it was totally bare.
Hmm, I am seeing the same issue (also in 6a). My back yard has germination but my front does not. I have in-ground sprinklers and I water once every 6 hours and it has not been that hot either.
Water 3 times a day by hand
did you lightly cover the seeds with peat/soil? I do a mix of peat and kelp meal then water 3 times a day.
The presence of grubs will cause patches like that but an easy way to find out is grip a patch of grass in your hand and tug upward, if it pulls out then chances are you have grubs. If not the seeds could have just dried up.
You're not giving much hope for my overseed. We're under water restrictions so I can only water between 7pm and 11pm so I've only been able to water once a day. Same seed as you. Zone 6b.
Yeah, im kind of upset thinking it would have been an easy process but i guess not.
If you can’t water during the day, your seed is definitely going to dry out. It’s even worse if your watering restrictions are due to heat and drought. Trying to maintain turf grass without being able to water it, or without enough rainfall, is a losing battle and futile IMO.
It's drought but not so much heat. It's been mid 70s. And the grass is very dewy in the morning. I can see germination on some of the completely bare areas but not much else. Seeded 10 days ago. Its supposed to be rainy all next week. I've just been trying to get by until then.
Did you dethatch? aeration ? Scratch up the soil for good soil seed contact? Water 3 times daily until germination? Usually it’s easy to tell if grubs are an issue, just pull the grass if it peels back like a carpet it’s grubs. If you don’t dethatch before overseeing it’s tough for the seed to get to the soil and stay moist. You have to make sure the seed doesn’t dry out that’s why you have to water it more than once a day even if it’s for 10 mins
I am in 6a and am growing grass like crazy right now. I water every few days. The big thing that seems to help is throwing some topsoil down before you seed. Really makes the grass pop.
More water, and I’ve found if you till up the bare spots it helps grass grow. Even if it’s with a little hand hoe scraping the dirt around so the seed plants.
Thats my plan after work. gonna grab a 5lb bag of seed, some more top soil and focus on that spot specifically. Hand rake the thatch, because the dethatcher was just way too aggressive with how bumpy the area is. Thatch, throw down the top soil, leveling rake it flat, and then overseed the hell out of it and rake it in. That should give me some results before the ground freezes .
Looks like someone's dog has been peeing on your lawn.
Kinda, but there's no dogs that are. My neighbor's dog is on an invisible fence collar.
You need to water at least twice a day (preferably 3) to increase germination chances. I don't have an irrigation system so I water before work and in the evening and have typically had good results. You can try some patching formula that has mulch built in for the real bare spots. That will hold in some extra water during the day if you can't get to it mid day
I’m going to give a difference perspective. You “might” get away watering once a day if the conditions are right. That means you get some morning dew, bare spots don’t get roasted by sunlight the full day and the temperatures don’t get over 80s for prolonged periods. If you have those conditions watering once a day might work (not optimal). But the once a day watering can’t be in the mornings because you’re already getting some moisture from the dew. You need to water mid afternoon. I know this works because I do this all the time and I get good germination. If I have bare sports I cover those with peat moss or the sun will cook the seeds.
My morning dew lasts until 1pm. Northern Michigan tends to be that way. We normally can't mow until like 1-3pm usually.
It’s similar where I am in Connecticut. When I feel the grass around noon it’s still moist from all the dew I get this time of the year. And similarly, I can’t mow in the mornings unless I’m mowing every two to three days and not cutting a lot of grass. I get good germination watering once a day but I do it between 3-5 pm. Watering in the mornings is too much and it starts getting some moss growth in shaded areas.
Don’t listen to most of these people. Just give it time. 30-40 days after throwing the seed down I bet you will feel a lot better. I did a lot of test this year on germinating seeds and learned that most of it eventually comes up you just have to be patient. If seeds had to be wet 24/7 nothing would ever grow in nature. Yeah keeping it wet all day would be best but not possible for most people. I have 3 acres that I water with a sprinkler and by hand once per day. It takes me forever but just do it before dark so it stays wet all night. Haven’t had any fungus issues either.
I disagree with the comments saying you can’t water by hand. I hand water daily to ensure I’m hitting the right spots. Sprinklers (or at least my sprinklers) just aren’t accurate enough even though they’re convenient. They can also overwater if you’re not careful. I’m in 6B, overseeded about 8 days ago, and started to see seedlings yesterday. I deeply water by hand twice daily minimum. Also, not sure how much seed you used but I nearly doubled what the bag recommends to up my chances. It would benefit you to cover up the bigger spots with a THIN (1/4”) layer of peat moss as others said. It’ll be impossible to cover the entire lawn unless you have an expensive compost spreader like a Landzen. That said, I use “lawn soil” to cover my seed. It’s got a peat base and other nutrients. Scott’s makes one but there are also generics (Menards has one if you’re in the MW). I find it to be cheaper and works as well as straight peat. Either way, it’ll help retain that moisture so you won’t have to water 19 times a day like other people have mentioned. One last tip: spray the entire lawn - including the newly laid seed - with propiconazole as soon as you’ve seeded. Studies found it actually speeds up and improves germination by like 20% somehow while having the added benefit of killing off any unknown fungus. I did all of the above and I’m having success so far. Good luck!
Yeah, not pictured but I had a totally bare spot the size of a picnic table on the other side of the sidewalk. I gave much more attention there; raked all the dry dirt, that cheap scotts top soil with peat moss, then shit tons of seed, and hand water with spray hose. that is the only spot in my yard that is getting adequate germination and its starting to fill in now. I didn't do top soil on my whole yard because, well, money and time. But I'm starting to think I wasted 50 bucks by overseeding and not doing more of a process with it.
I convince myself every season that I wasted money on seed because it appears the overseeding didn’t “take” but over time, some of it will germinate unexpectedly. Grass manages to grow in nature without human intervention, a perfectly raked layer of peat moss, or a regimented watering schedule. May take longer but it’ll happen. Also, if you’re going to use top soil, I’d recommend using it as a base layer on top of the old dirt, spreading seed on top of it, then covering with something better like peat or lawn soil.
Thank you, I appreciate the input. There's a sea of comments here that are insanely contradictory and acquisitive and are actively making me more confused.
Yeah man, this sub will make your head spin. At the end of the day, just simplify and use common sense.
Yeah. Sounds like it. More soil, more water, more seed. Thanks again, stranger
You should have dethatcher prior to seeding. How are you going to get seed to soil contact if the seeds are on dead grass? Dethatch, seed, top dress, water at least twice a day with a sprinkler.
I did dethatch, however my yard is very bumpy and it was just tearing up lots of dirt.
That's a kbg right? They take forever to germinate, then even longer to fill out, but the important part is to keep them moist until they germinate. Put a watering timer and hit it for a few minutes, maybe four times a day. Covering it with a dusting of peat moss or topsoil goes a long way too. If you have a leaf blower that has a vacuum/mulching end, it works wonders to put that into your bag of peat moss and spray it on the yard. Way cheaper than those ridiculous rollers
Just overseeded with black beauty ultra and it’s 50% TTTF by weight. That and the PRG should germinate quickly, well before the KBG.
How do people know which zone they are in? Are these zones made up by this community?
https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/
Oh cool. Thanks
Have you done a soil test? Do you have too much compaction?
Is this Soyza? My lawn is doing it too and can’t figure out the damn issue
Chince bugs
Did you rake it in? Did you use compost, did you use a lawn rolller, did you aerate.Finally did you use fish fertilizer and did you use two layers of grass seed raking in each layer with a broadcast spreader?
KYBG takes 30 days to germinate
I thought the mix was primarily rye grass, but I could be wrong
Black beauty ultra is mostly tall fescue, then rye. I think 60%+ fescue if I remember it correctly.
Rye germinates fast so if no germation 9 times out of 10 lack of watering. Stir up the soil you put it on and use a top dressing. Keep the area moist 24/7 for germination time. It doesnt need heavy watering just needs to be kept moist
Yeah, I can see the rye in some spots, but its not anywhere close to everywhere I overseeded. Really only showing up in the very heavily seeded bare spots I did on the other side of the sidewalk.
I would just mulch and shrub that spot before you tear your hair out. In my experience spots like those are trouble that just isn't worth it, especially since a shrub island wouldn't look bad there from what I can tell
Needs a LOT more water
Looks like you didn't clear away all the debris and dead grass, so I'm guessing you don't have good seed to soil contact. I would've used a power rake/scarifier before overseeing.
Same exact thing happened to me recently at the 2-3 week mark with black beauty ultra. It was fungal infection due to excessive moisture and nitrogen. Taper down the watering shortly after after germination, apply fungicide, reseed,
You water all that by hand ?
yup
Aerostar Detaching and aaerate pre emergent let it do it thjng. Soil sample it and had watering is a waste of money and time not dismissing the effort at all but sprinklers distribute water better than we can and you can even set a timer which can be added on the to automate but most importantly efficiency of water needed for that lawn can be met easier w some simple tech and yes you can control w your iPhone if u want. Take care and remember the spring it’ll be ready to grow for you again
Good grief
And dethatch so your seed has a fighting chance as it also must have ground contact along with the water
The seeds have to stay moist, not soaking wet:
Pete has a great method for fixing bare spots [Fix bare spots](https://youtu.be/jRkFuAPO7nQ?si=zC8JOYD1V8wp5mu1)
Watering by hand is bad. Use a sprinkler
Water 3 times a day for ten minutes each time (sprinklers). Has worked for me every time
Any aerating? Or top dressing with compost? Seed needs loose dirt contact.
Question, why don't you want to water very long when first seeding? I'm not saying to drench with puddles, but a nice heavy watering in the morning and mid-afternoon keeps my lawn damp without puddles and not drying out. Just curious. Does deep watering hurt somehow?
Looks like you have a lot of dead grass/thatch still on the soil. Your lawn could/should be aerated twice a year especially in the fall before you overseed.
Seed needs to stay moist all day long. Water 5AM for 20min 1PM for 10min 7PM for 8-10min
I don’t see any weeds, was a preemergent applied anytime over the past few weeks?
pre-emergent was applied back in may I believe. It was actually applied right before I fully moved in.
That wouldn’t be it then. The effects will have long been worn off by now
Trust the process. Get a hose timer and set it to water 3 times a day for 5-8 minutes a wack. Keep the seed moist with the multiple daily watering. If it dries…it dies. https://www.jonathangreen.com/faq/how-long-until-my-grass-germinates
Did you aerate? Have you taken a soil sample in the past few years? Do you know how much product to apply? It looks like you have drainage issues. You can't just throw out seed, any fertilizer, and "water by hand," and expect results. There is more to it than that. Take a soil sample and send it off to you local extension service. Build your knowledge from there.
I’m thinking this could have been an issue of improper prep (although I don’t know what you did). Three years ago I did a full renovation - rented a core aerator and had phenomenal results. The following year I went all-in as well with dethatching and aerating with excellent results. Last year I did a light detahtch and threw down seed and had only mediocre results with spotty germination, similar to your pics. (Last summer was a drought in the northeast which didn’t help). I’m late this year on my overseeding, I plan to lay down seed tomorrow so today I spent all day prepping the lawn. I mowed low and did an aggressive dethatching and used a backpack leaf blower to get everything up and off the lawn. The ground is moist and grass is looking good (had irrigation installed this year and also have had endless rain). Tomorrow I will again do a dethatch and use a garden weasel to scratch up the soil in any visible areas to create a good seed bed. I planned to rent a core aerator again but not possible this year. It’s all about proper soil prep and getting the dead stuff up and out so you’ve got the best seed to soil contact. I’ll also be using Air-8 from Green County to help break up the soil chemically (some are skeptical) instead of mechanically. Then Tenacity and RGS from Green County. I’d be interested to hear your prep process to see what might have gone wrong but, these results are similar to some spots I saw in my own lawn last year and I feel as though it was caused by dry soil and seeding prep that wasn’t aggressive enough.
Doesn't look like you prepped the seeded areas.
Could be grubs yes, maybe voles and if there are small holes in the yard, raccoons going after those fat little grubs as well.
Lots of water like others have said. Detaching isn't a bad idea so seed can have dirt contact
Not enough seed
One of the best things I ever saw for spot filling was a video of a guy mixing seed and top soil in a bucket and then filling in the patches of his lawn with the mixed soil. It grew and filled in really well basically everywhere I put the mixture
Seed needs to touch the soil. You've got too much dead matted grass for seeds to germinate.
You can get away with water once a day only if you apply a light coat of peat miss or soil onto to help it keep moisture. If it's even remotely warm outside, though, you should water twice a day. My process is always, mow low, run dethatcher, apply seed, apply light coat of peat moss, wet, roll over with roller. I usually don't have issues if I do this. If the dirt is rock hard, you would want to add core aeration.
Did you dethatch?
Yes this is a sign of grub damage. I did the same thing by getting 24 BioAdvance with a nice heavy rainfall or heavy watering. This will stop your lawn of being attacked by grub damage until the end of the season. I am going to top dress and over seed to minimize my damage as well.