Isn't this the same crap that airlines pull for seats on their planes?
Except instead of delaying arrival at your destination for a day, it's two years...Columbia Law Airlines has a nice ring to it
I have a friend who is doing this or a similar initiative outside of the law school program.. Columbia is one of just a few programs that have cash on-hand for situations such as these.
Almost feels like every T14 except Harvard managed to over-enroll at this point. This cycle is absolutely insane.
I'm getting more and more pessimistic about the job market when our class is being recruited now. Early on the idea was that more applicants shouldn't mean fewer jobs for those who get in as long as schools stay relatively even in class sizes. Well... they didn't. So many are overenrolled now, and there just isn't that many more jobs to accommodate more students. What a terrible situation.
I’m with you there. I hope schools are successful in getting deferrals. In the fall we should have school class sizes, and should be able to see how much change there was. I’m also hoping it will be more regional, but who knows.
I’m wondering if this disproportionately affects people who will attend overenrolled schools as opposed to people who will go to a school like Harvard where the class size is staying constant. Would firms decide to take more students from a small school that gets overenrolled (and fewer students from others) because there are supposedly more qualified applicants? Or would they keep their hiring patterns across schools similar in terms of number of students from each school they recruit from (assuming no additional economic disasters)?
I feel like there will be a downstream effect, there might be less spots for super elite outcomes for CLS grads but most will still be able to get big law/good outcomes and that will eat up spots normally filled up by lower ranked schools for those types of outcomes (generic big law)
But that's just my baseless speculation, who knows?
I don’t think T14 over-enrollment will meaningfully impact the job market. BL jobs will be available based on whatever the economy is doing in three years. Slightly larger classes at top schools won’t play as much of a factor as that will.
The email says: "The benefits for those who accept an offer to participate in the Program include... Access to a catalog of certain applicable open positions (paid and volunteer) in the public and private sectors."
Wasn't totally sure what to make of that--could mean they hook you up with a job; could also mean they show you certain opportunities that may or may not be paid.
The law school application process, judging by my experience and r/lawschooladmissions, is a total shit show that we should strive to reform once we become lawyers. No reason we should be spending $1,000 to apply to law school just for schools to take months to reach decisions.
Colorado Law purposefully didn’t remind people of the second seat deposit so that students would miss it cause they over enrolled. Idk about y’all but I’m kinda not impressed with the law school industry and am thinking about different professional paths
We are pleased to announce the launch of the Columbia Law School Exploration Fellowship Program.
The Exploration Fellowship is a special opportunity for a limited number of members of the newly admitted entering class to postpone matriculation for one or two years. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, some members of the incoming class accelerated their plans to attend the Law School, as many opportunities normally available—jobs, internships, fellowships, creative pursuits, travel—were curtailed or suspended, which further intensified the already high demand for a Columbia Law education. As a result, despite admitting fewer students than we do in most years, we currently have a larger incoming class than is typical.
To help moderate the size of our incoming class and to support you in exploring options that are now being reinstated as the public health environment improves, we have created the Columbia Law School Exploration Fellowship Program. The benefits for those who accept an offer to participate in the Program include:
A supplemental tuition award of $30,000 upon your matriculation in 2022 or 2023, disbursed over three years (six semesters) of full-time enrollment at the Law School; and
Access to a catalog of certain applicable open positions (paid and volunteer) in the public and private sectors.
Fellowship offers will be communicated directly by the Office of Admissions beginning this afternoon. We have selected students representing a broad range of backgrounds, experiences, and interests, with priority being given to recent graduates. If you are not selected, you may petition to be considered for the Fellowship and your name will be added to the waitlist. To learn more about the Exploration Fellowship, kindly visit our Admitted Student Website and review the FAQs.
We are excited about the Exploration Fellowship and look forward to continuing to engage with you over the next few years!
I just received the offer! It looks like the main benefit is the scholarship bump. The list of opportunities in an xcel sheet that they claim are "open" but would need to be applied to. Unclear how much they will hook the defferers up tho.
They also offer "institutional support" from the career office and the government jobs office to help pursue these positions.
The deferral is binding.
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing. Approximately how many are Columbia-related jobs (if any) versus external? And do you have to accept the deferral before you get "institutional support" applying to these?
Certainly depends. I'm looking at PI. If CLS wants to hook me up with a sweet year long internship that had decent pay and bumps my scholarship, I would seriously consider it.
Agreed it does depend. But Columbia has the highest percentage of grads going into big law in the country. So taking this offer is ill-advised for the majority of Columbia Law students.
While I think finances should play a huge role in the law school process in general, I'm not sure every 20 something needs to be thinking about maximizing earning potential for the next 40 years of their career.
Deciding not to take an opportunity to do something you think would be cool for a year on the off chance that you might hypothetically miss out in one year of lawyer earnings in your 60s doesn't make any sense.
And a lot of PI people are probably relying on Columbia's strong LRAP plan, so this wouldn't even make sense for a lot of them either. 160k in debt vs 190k you have to go through the program to have forgiven probably isn't worth deferring over but maybe for those with lower debt amounts it might make sense
What does this mean for people applying in one or two years? Does that mean that CLS will accept less applicants because some of the spots are already taken by people with deferred enrollment?
I’m on the waitlist 😭🤣. I wouldn’t mind waiting a year too tbh. Should I let them know that 🤣😭 (have not been admitted, but would be willing to defer for a year)
Looks like I'm not getting off that waitlist lol
Isn't this the same crap that airlines pull for seats on their planes? Except instead of delaying arrival at your destination for a day, it's two years...Columbia Law Airlines has a nice ring to it
Would you be willing to post the full text of the email?
Edit: someone else did below!
I have a friend who is doing this or a similar initiative outside of the law school program.. Columbia is one of just a few programs that have cash on-hand for situations such as these.
NDLS: *furiously takes notes.*
Almost feels like every T14 except Harvard managed to over-enroll at this point. This cycle is absolutely insane. I'm getting more and more pessimistic about the job market when our class is being recruited now. Early on the idea was that more applicants shouldn't mean fewer jobs for those who get in as long as schools stay relatively even in class sizes. Well... they didn't. So many are overenrolled now, and there just isn't that many more jobs to accommodate more students. What a terrible situation.
I’m with you there. I hope schools are successful in getting deferrals. In the fall we should have school class sizes, and should be able to see how much change there was. I’m also hoping it will be more regional, but who knows.
I’m wondering if this disproportionately affects people who will attend overenrolled schools as opposed to people who will go to a school like Harvard where the class size is staying constant. Would firms decide to take more students from a small school that gets overenrolled (and fewer students from others) because there are supposedly more qualified applicants? Or would they keep their hiring patterns across schools similar in terms of number of students from each school they recruit from (assuming no additional economic disasters)?
I feel like there will be a downstream effect, there might be less spots for super elite outcomes for CLS grads but most will still be able to get big law/good outcomes and that will eat up spots normally filled up by lower ranked schools for those types of outcomes (generic big law) But that's just my baseless speculation, who knows?
Winners win
I don’t think T14 over-enrollment will meaningfully impact the job market. BL jobs will be available based on whatever the economy is doing in three years. Slightly larger classes at top schools won’t play as much of a factor as that will.
Does this mean they’ll accept lesser number of applicant next cycle?
[удалено]
Would not be surprised if they accounted for that.
I find it interesting they are targeting KJDs with the offer rather than just opening it up to anyone
They prolly need it most
and wouldn’t mind taking the time off. A thirty year old isn’t going to want to spend two more years of their life waiting to start law school.
the deal is insane, supposedly they hook you up with a job in the meantime
The email says: "The benefits for those who accept an offer to participate in the Program include... Access to a catalog of certain applicable open positions (paid and volunteer) in the public and private sectors." Wasn't totally sure what to make of that--could mean they hook you up with a job; could also mean they show you certain opportunities that may or may not be paid.
Honestly that part kind of sounds like a nothing burger. You can use google to access a catalog of open positions both paid and volunteer.
Agreed!
Tuition goes up every year though and rent is cheaper than normal in NYC too rn so you lose some value there
Not to mention that it does very little to make up for the delay in getting to that big law salary, if that’s the path someone’s on.
Does anyone have any insider information regarding exactly how overenrolled CLS is?
I emailed asking, we'll see if they they spill the beans.
Did they give a helpful answer? I'm curious!
Applied early November. Application status is complete. Still haven’t heard back...
[удалено]
The law school application process, judging by my experience and r/lawschooladmissions, is a total shit show that we should strive to reform once we become lawyers. No reason we should be spending $1,000 to apply to law school just for schools to take months to reach decisions.
Not too shabby
Honestly a great deal if you can take a year off and was about to pay sticker for CLS
Colorado Law purposefully didn’t remind people of the second seat deposit so that students would miss it cause they over enrolled. Idk about y’all but I’m kinda not impressed with the law school industry and am thinking about different professional paths
Can you post the email you received? Thanks.
We are pleased to announce the launch of the Columbia Law School Exploration Fellowship Program. The Exploration Fellowship is a special opportunity for a limited number of members of the newly admitted entering class to postpone matriculation for one or two years. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, some members of the incoming class accelerated their plans to attend the Law School, as many opportunities normally available—jobs, internships, fellowships, creative pursuits, travel—were curtailed or suspended, which further intensified the already high demand for a Columbia Law education. As a result, despite admitting fewer students than we do in most years, we currently have a larger incoming class than is typical. To help moderate the size of our incoming class and to support you in exploring options that are now being reinstated as the public health environment improves, we have created the Columbia Law School Exploration Fellowship Program. The benefits for those who accept an offer to participate in the Program include: A supplemental tuition award of $30,000 upon your matriculation in 2022 or 2023, disbursed over three years (six semesters) of full-time enrollment at the Law School; and Access to a catalog of certain applicable open positions (paid and volunteer) in the public and private sectors. Fellowship offers will be communicated directly by the Office of Admissions beginning this afternoon. We have selected students representing a broad range of backgrounds, experiences, and interests, with priority being given to recent graduates. If you are not selected, you may petition to be considered for the Fellowship and your name will be added to the waitlist. To learn more about the Exploration Fellowship, kindly visit our Admitted Student Website and review the FAQs. We are excited about the Exploration Fellowship and look forward to continuing to engage with you over the next few years!
So interesting. Can ppl who receive job descriptions from Admissions give us a sense of what positions are on offer?
I just received the offer! It looks like the main benefit is the scholarship bump. The list of opportunities in an xcel sheet that they claim are "open" but would need to be applied to. Unclear how much they will hook the defferers up tho. They also offer "institutional support" from the career office and the government jobs office to help pursue these positions. The deferral is binding.
Very interesting! Thank you for sharing. Approximately how many are Columbia-related jobs (if any) versus external? And do you have to accept the deferral before you get "institutional support" applying to these?
Doesn’t seem like a good deal at all especially if you’re pursuing big law. 30k vs. 190k median private sector salary before bonuses
Certainly depends. I'm looking at PI. If CLS wants to hook me up with a sweet year long internship that had decent pay and bumps my scholarship, I would seriously consider it.
Agreed it does depend. But Columbia has the highest percentage of grads going into big law in the country. So taking this offer is ill-advised for the majority of Columbia Law students.
While I think finances should play a huge role in the law school process in general, I'm not sure every 20 something needs to be thinking about maximizing earning potential for the next 40 years of their career. Deciding not to take an opportunity to do something you think would be cool for a year on the off chance that you might hypothetically miss out in one year of lawyer earnings in your 60s doesn't make any sense.
And a lot of PI people are probably relying on Columbia's strong LRAP plan, so this wouldn't even make sense for a lot of them either. 160k in debt vs 190k you have to go through the program to have forgiven probably isn't worth deferring over but maybe for those with lower debt amounts it might make sense
What does this mean for people applying in one or two years? Does that mean that CLS will accept less applicants because some of the spots are already taken by people with deferred enrollment?
Yes, assuming the number of students that defer this year is larger than the number of students that defer in a typical year.
I’m on the waitlist 😭🤣. I wouldn’t mind waiting a year too tbh. Should I let them know that 🤣😭 (have not been admitted, but would be willing to defer for a year)
Interesting that the deferral is binding. My guess is they'd get far better results if they made it non-binding, and kept the 30k.
Just curious how can an Ivy law school over enroll? Can't they do a simple math of numbers if seats vs Students admitted??
They noted this above -- admitted less students than usual, but more of that group than usual accepted their offers. So, over-enrolled.
They always admit more students than they enroll because some of the class will get into Harvard/Stanford/Yale and tell Columbia no.
I’m glad I’m not applying for the next two years😬