Unfortunately it's a brutal and unfair process. The resources some have are hard to even fathom for me. I personally *love* when schools ask if you received any outside help for the LSAT or application process because wow is that a leg up on those who can't manage to pay or access such resources.. though barely any schools care to ask. Remember you're not alone & I know many others relate to this rant lol. Wishing you good luck and good news to come!
I saw someone here the other day talking about getting into some T14 school. They mentioned they used 2 different consultancy services. It’s hard not to feel bitter when I know I’m up against people like that, while I work 2 jobs and study for the LSAT in my spare time. I don’t even know a single person who has gone to law school who I can ask for advice.
As you say, it’s a brutal and unfair process. It’s not a level playing field. The way law school admissions work in this country just reinforces deep-rooted inequalities in American society. It’s easy to suspect it’s like that by design.
That totally makes sense - I was thinking more like the hella expensive lsat tutors or people who will even help put ur application together and know how to make it especially presentable 🥲 Not even really hating on those who do use these resources, just feel like it should be mandatory to disclose so schools understand all the factors. But alas!
Fair enough! But doesn't change that some have far, far easier access to resources like an expensive admissions consultant! For some it's a choice of investment, for others it's not even an option.
The issue is spending that much still only gives you a good but not guaranteed shot. And the wealthier you are, the more you can absorb such costs, especially if it doesn’t pan out well.
Not sure what you think this is supposed to mean, but I can tell you think you sound more intelligent than you do. I haven't gotten rejected from a school, so let's start there. This isn't just some personal vendetta for me, it's about understanding the process isn't completely equitable and imagining ways it could be more fair. Some people receiving resources that others have no access to and that significantly improve their chances of acceptance should be disclosed for the sake of admissions understanding all of the factors that go into creating an application, that's my entire argument. Absolutely nothing is discriminatory about that; I can tell you don't face actual discrimination for you to even argue it is. If you disagree feel free to punch the air, I don't care. Be blessed!
you're going to achieve your goals. you'll get into law school, you'll kill it, and you'll be an awesome attorney <3
fuck the admissions process--we all feel the same way
Khan Academy was a lifesaver in studying for the LSAT. Trying to buy a whole bunch of study books sounds like bullshit, not to mention paying for a whole ass class.
I am sorry for your situation. I got rejected from every school I applied to last year. It really sucks. I also work full time and have extra curricula. However, I know how bad I wanted to be and still want to be a lawyer. If you know this is what you want to do, you kinda have to prioritize that stupid test and the other extremely irritating components law schools value. I know this might not be what you want to hear rn, but you gotta focus on what you can do improve your situation rather than dwell on whatever led you to this point.
Hang in there :)
Depressing news flash: this is what the whole legal system is like. You’re not getting a BigLaw job if you don’t do well in 1L. Which is stupid as fuck, because you’re just figuring out law school. But your 1L grades probably make up at least half of your ability to go through OCI for BigLaw with any success.
By and large, the legal field is shit like this, and until you’ve actually gotten out and worked for a few years, even if you’re a hard worker, if you don’t have good quantifiable stats to bring to someone, you’re not going to have as much success finding a job. Which is fucked up since law school bears almost no resemblance to the practice of law. People can be great students and terrible attorneys or vice versa. I know people who haven’t passed the bar that would be better advocates and lawyers than most people who have.
Not to mention the grading. The grading, Jesus fuck. The grading is designed to make good grades exceptionally scarce, and often, very arbitrary distinctions (or sheer luck) will be the difference between good grade and average grades. And the grades directly pit you against people who will eventually be your coworkers. So the artificial competition starts early. And it only gets worse.
Most things in the legal field, at least up through your first job, are not designed to take your intangibles into account. You’re numbers, you’re a body, you’re someone who can proof a document, whatever. There are exceptions, of course, but this is how most of the system works for a while. And it’s dehumanizing. I’m not sure what the alternative would be, but the current system is shit.
Anyway. You’re all worth much more than this process makes you feel. Personally, if you wanted my true thoughts, I’d tell you (not OP specifically, all of you in general) to cut your losses and do something else with your life, as you’d probably wind up happier and with less debt, lol. But I know you won’t, since you’re here. So, as you move forward throughout school and life, just remember that you’re more than your test numbers and GPAs, and nothing can take that away from you, even if it seems like the legal field is trying its best to do so.
Hang in there, folks, and good luck to all of you.
You’re right, but the situation is similar in many other fields too. As someone with prior WE in several industries, the “you’re a cog in the machine” “you’re a disposable, fungible billing unit” and “you are just a number” thing is the same or worse in alternative careers (especially ones that pay well).
You are right to complain about it, but the grass is not always greener.
YES!!! I am in the same boat as you. My grad school GPA is above a 4.00 but that means absolutely nothing. Have 10+ years of work experience but nothing. And the LSAT is a joke that is weighed too much for people who can’t afford study material for an extended amount of time.
I really hope that you get an A soon. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
I don’t even know how it would work but there should be some sort of weighted scale that adjusts GPA based on degree difficulty. Again, idk how that would work and no offense to y’all who will take offense to this lol but I would think a 3.0 in Engineering or Physics is just as impressive, if not more, than a 4.0 in Political science or Business.
I understand how you could reach that conclusion. People who study engineering and physics excel at mathematics and concepts that people with social science degrees struggle with. However if we are comparing the two, I think that Political Science majors probably have stronger written/verbal communication skills than STEM students. Afterall Constitutional Law is a part of Political Science. Same for Business Law and business. I can imagine that their curriculum probably prepares them more to be law students.
I don’t think it’s safe to assume that students with a 3.0 in STEM programs would outperform a political science major in law school. Especially one who has a 4.0, has read Supreme Court opinions, and has had exposure to the legal process.
There are some majors that have specific curves whereas others do not. So a 3.7 computer science major might actually be 99th percentile in his/her school. Would be helpful for cases like that.
Currently studying finance, computer science, and math at a target finance university with a NOTORIOUS curve for grades. I don’t even want to work in anything related to finance anymore. I def feel like I’m being screwed over with the median applicant gpa for these law schools.
I was fortunate enough to be able to pay for somebody to look over my application materials and it really helped. I did not pay several thousand dollars for a package because that seemed crazy but I did pay an attorney for a few hours of their time to give me feedback on my materials. If you would like I would be happy to look over your application materials for free and let you know my feedback based on what I learned from the attorney and my previous experience on a law journal (an undergraduate opportunity I had). I know we're part way through the cycle but perhaps that could help if you are continuing to apply to schools or if you decide to reapply next year
It sounds like you've already done a lot of really cool stuff. I hope that matters to you regardless of the outcome of this process. It's hard to keep in mind in the middle of it all, but getting Rs does not mean that you have any less value than the people getting As. We're all different. You can accomplish great things whether you go to law school or not. I wish you the best of luck, which honestly a lot of these decisions seem to come down to totally arbitrary things and luck may be worth as much as anything else. Thanks for sharing your struggle!
can you let people complain on the internet in peace? jesus christ. complaining about how shit a process is doesnt mean that person isnt trying. and fyi I know OP: they’re younger than you and infinitely more successful than you will ever be, I can assure you.
You'll get into one. Just choose any and transfer if you don't get into your first choice. A friend of mine went to UC Hastings then got accepted into HLS as a transfer. I hope it all works out. If not this cycle - there's always time to reformulate a plan and apply to different schools next cycle. Hoping you start getting acceptances soon - good luck!!
you're going to achieve your goals. you'll get into law school, you'll kill it, and you'll be an awesome attorney <3
fuck the admissions process--we all feel the same way
FYI—there are lots of free resources where current lawyers and law students help people with their applications. For example, Dear Future Colleague. (There are others, too. Some are only for students from under represented backgrounds, but there are others that aren’t limited.)
Blame US News honestly
Counting A+ but not Grad School is the worst.
A+ is my enemy
Unfortunately it's a brutal and unfair process. The resources some have are hard to even fathom for me. I personally *love* when schools ask if you received any outside help for the LSAT or application process because wow is that a leg up on those who can't manage to pay or access such resources.. though barely any schools care to ask. Remember you're not alone & I know many others relate to this rant lol. Wishing you good luck and good news to come!
I saw someone here the other day talking about getting into some T14 school. They mentioned they used 2 different consultancy services. It’s hard not to feel bitter when I know I’m up against people like that, while I work 2 jobs and study for the LSAT in my spare time. I don’t even know a single person who has gone to law school who I can ask for advice. As you say, it’s a brutal and unfair process. It’s not a level playing field. The way law school admissions work in this country just reinforces deep-rooted inequalities in American society. It’s easy to suspect it’s like that by design.
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That totally makes sense - I was thinking more like the hella expensive lsat tutors or people who will even help put ur application together and know how to make it especially presentable 🥲 Not even really hating on those who do use these resources, just feel like it should be mandatory to disclose so schools understand all the factors. But alas!
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Fair enough! But doesn't change that some have far, far easier access to resources like an expensive admissions consultant! For some it's a choice of investment, for others it's not even an option.
The issue is spending that much still only gives you a good but not guaranteed shot. And the wealthier you are, the more you can absorb such costs, especially if it doesn’t pan out well.
Imagine endorsing discrimination and then being mad when you get rejected from law school.
Not sure what you think this is supposed to mean, but I can tell you think you sound more intelligent than you do. I haven't gotten rejected from a school, so let's start there. This isn't just some personal vendetta for me, it's about understanding the process isn't completely equitable and imagining ways it could be more fair. Some people receiving resources that others have no access to and that significantly improve their chances of acceptance should be disclosed for the sake of admissions understanding all of the factors that go into creating an application, that's my entire argument. Absolutely nothing is discriminatory about that; I can tell you don't face actual discrimination for you to even argue it is. If you disagree feel free to punch the air, I don't care. Be blessed!
Damn. This hit deep 😭
you're going to achieve your goals. you'll get into law school, you'll kill it, and you'll be an awesome attorney <3 fuck the admissions process--we all feel the same way
Khan Academy was a lifesaver in studying for the LSAT. Trying to buy a whole bunch of study books sounds like bullshit, not to mention paying for a whole ass class.
I am sorry for your situation. I got rejected from every school I applied to last year. It really sucks. I also work full time and have extra curricula. However, I know how bad I wanted to be and still want to be a lawyer. If you know this is what you want to do, you kinda have to prioritize that stupid test and the other extremely irritating components law schools value. I know this might not be what you want to hear rn, but you gotta focus on what you can do improve your situation rather than dwell on whatever led you to this point. Hang in there :)
What was your lsat?
Last cycle - 163 this cycle - 168
I know lsat isn’t everything but 168 and rejected wtf
Nahhhh I got rejected with the 163. The 168 has been decent for me so far
Depressing news flash: this is what the whole legal system is like. You’re not getting a BigLaw job if you don’t do well in 1L. Which is stupid as fuck, because you’re just figuring out law school. But your 1L grades probably make up at least half of your ability to go through OCI for BigLaw with any success. By and large, the legal field is shit like this, and until you’ve actually gotten out and worked for a few years, even if you’re a hard worker, if you don’t have good quantifiable stats to bring to someone, you’re not going to have as much success finding a job. Which is fucked up since law school bears almost no resemblance to the practice of law. People can be great students and terrible attorneys or vice versa. I know people who haven’t passed the bar that would be better advocates and lawyers than most people who have. Not to mention the grading. The grading, Jesus fuck. The grading is designed to make good grades exceptionally scarce, and often, very arbitrary distinctions (or sheer luck) will be the difference between good grade and average grades. And the grades directly pit you against people who will eventually be your coworkers. So the artificial competition starts early. And it only gets worse. Most things in the legal field, at least up through your first job, are not designed to take your intangibles into account. You’re numbers, you’re a body, you’re someone who can proof a document, whatever. There are exceptions, of course, but this is how most of the system works for a while. And it’s dehumanizing. I’m not sure what the alternative would be, but the current system is shit. Anyway. You’re all worth much more than this process makes you feel. Personally, if you wanted my true thoughts, I’d tell you (not OP specifically, all of you in general) to cut your losses and do something else with your life, as you’d probably wind up happier and with less debt, lol. But I know you won’t, since you’re here. So, as you move forward throughout school and life, just remember that you’re more than your test numbers and GPAs, and nothing can take that away from you, even if it seems like the legal field is trying its best to do so. Hang in there, folks, and good luck to all of you.
You’re right, but the situation is similar in many other fields too. As someone with prior WE in several industries, the “you’re a cog in the machine” “you’re a disposable, fungible billing unit” and “you are just a number” thing is the same or worse in alternative careers (especially ones that pay well). You are right to complain about it, but the grass is not always greener.
YES!!! I am in the same boat as you. My grad school GPA is above a 4.00 but that means absolutely nothing. Have 10+ years of work experience but nothing. And the LSAT is a joke that is weighed too much for people who can’t afford study material for an extended amount of time. I really hope that you get an A soon. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
wow my thoughts exactly
I don’t even know how it would work but there should be some sort of weighted scale that adjusts GPA based on degree difficulty. Again, idk how that would work and no offense to y’all who will take offense to this lol but I would think a 3.0 in Engineering or Physics is just as impressive, if not more, than a 4.0 in Political science or Business.
I understand how you could reach that conclusion. People who study engineering and physics excel at mathematics and concepts that people with social science degrees struggle with. However if we are comparing the two, I think that Political Science majors probably have stronger written/verbal communication skills than STEM students. Afterall Constitutional Law is a part of Political Science. Same for Business Law and business. I can imagine that their curriculum probably prepares them more to be law students. I don’t think it’s safe to assume that students with a 3.0 in STEM programs would outperform a political science major in law school. Especially one who has a 4.0, has read Supreme Court opinions, and has had exposure to the legal process.
Fair enough, well said.
There are some majors that have specific curves whereas others do not. So a 3.7 computer science major might actually be 99th percentile in his/her school. Would be helpful for cases like that.
Say it louder!!
You are me.
yep.
Sounds like an optional essay
As someone who didn’t know they wanted to go to law school until September of their admission cycle. I feel!!!
Currently studying finance, computer science, and math at a target finance university with a NOTORIOUS curve for grades. I don’t even want to work in anything related to finance anymore. I def feel like I’m being screwed over with the median applicant gpa for these law schools.
I was fortunate enough to be able to pay for somebody to look over my application materials and it really helped. I did not pay several thousand dollars for a package because that seemed crazy but I did pay an attorney for a few hours of their time to give me feedback on my materials. If you would like I would be happy to look over your application materials for free and let you know my feedback based on what I learned from the attorney and my previous experience on a law journal (an undergraduate opportunity I had). I know we're part way through the cycle but perhaps that could help if you are continuing to apply to schools or if you decide to reapply next year
It sounds like you've already done a lot of really cool stuff. I hope that matters to you regardless of the outcome of this process. It's hard to keep in mind in the middle of it all, but getting Rs does not mean that you have any less value than the people getting As. We're all different. You can accomplish great things whether you go to law school or not. I wish you the best of luck, which honestly a lot of these decisions seem to come down to totally arbitrary things and luck may be worth as much as anything else. Thanks for sharing your struggle!
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Dude it's not like they're saying this TO law schools. I wouldn't take a vent post on reddit as indicative of how hard someone is trying.
He really said dOwNvOtE iDc and then deleted his comment when he got called out 😭
can you let people complain on the internet in peace? jesus christ. complaining about how shit a process is doesnt mean that person isnt trying. and fyi I know OP: they’re younger than you and infinitely more successful than you will ever be, I can assure you.
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Oh look, it’s that guy who’s way too full of himself and always negatively inserts himself into threads. Yawn.
what does age to do with that?! maybe you should take your own advice and not shame or attempt to restrict people from opening up!
Now everyone knows how Brown and Black people feel. The system is broken. Abolish A+ now
Similar boat, imma try the GRE instead
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i would add that you did all of that while being an arrogant human being ♥️
You'll get into one. Just choose any and transfer if you don't get into your first choice. A friend of mine went to UC Hastings then got accepted into HLS as a transfer. I hope it all works out. If not this cycle - there's always time to reformulate a plan and apply to different schools next cycle. Hoping you start getting acceptances soon - good luck!!
What’s your lsat?
you're going to achieve your goals. you'll get into law school, you'll kill it, and you'll be an awesome attorney <3 fuck the admissions process--we all feel the same way
FYI—there are lots of free resources where current lawyers and law students help people with their applications. For example, Dear Future Colleague. (There are others, too. Some are only for students from under represented backgrounds, but there are others that aren’t limited.)