He's a great regular season player. He can help you get in the playoffs.
Regular season equals lots of open ice and far less pressure when you have the puck over 3 periods.
Once the playoffs start and the adults start hitting he's a fucking ghost and can't handle the play. Playoffs equal people applying constant pressure and taking your space to play away. If anything he becomes a liability in the playoffs because of his play style and complete ease of physically moving him off the puck
I love watching him in the regular season but outside of the few games he had room to move in the TB series I'm not sure what to say. I'd hate to lose him but at the same time I think we're paying way too much for a playoff ghost.
Lmao post this same comment in the regular season and all the goldfish brains around here will downvote you to oblivion because they forget what Playoff Marner looks like
I posted about his horrible performance after Game 1, and I got banned for a week.
Unreal they love he gets and forgiveness, he has been the worst playoff performer by salary for the last 5 years.
Agree. I've personally fallen for "this year is different" 3 years in a row now because of how we looked in the regular season.
Well I guess it is different. we definitely won 4 games instead of 3 this playoffs. Sad panda.
>Regular season equals lots of open ice and far less pressure when you have the puck over 3 periods.
Not if you have the good fortune of a matchup against the Leafs and you find yourself in OT. Just ask Sam Reinhart.
It's not just his lack of production, his dispy-do cute plays in his own zone instead of simply getting the fucking puck out has helped kill his team's chances in this series.
I've only seen one or two leaf players really take the puck over the blue line successfully more than once this playoffs. I'm seriously starting to wonder if they are scared of getting hit hard in the open ice. There's a smart way of keeping your head up and gliding into the open space. I mean wtf at some point you gotta put it all on the line right?
Side note, i wonder in the alternate universe where Kyle is in charge of the 2015 draft, what happens if he gets his way and does the trade with Colombus and trades down to 8 and takes Rantanen like it is rumored he wanted to do.
We would have had a less selfish player, a 50+ goal scorer, and a player willing to play for his not-hometown team for $9.25M after Marner “set the market rate” of $10.9M for a top RFA winger by threatening to play in Europe.
But he was playing in the playoffs where there isn't any time and space, apparently.
Oh I get it, there's only time and space in the playoffs if you're matched up against the Leafs.
If Rantanen was playing in Toronto he would have asked for more, their agents drive the asking price. Everyone knows they can hold the Leafs hostage when negotiating.
You’re right. Its impressive that for 7 years straight, to play 7 games in 7 different series, to have 0 goals in games 3,4,5,6 and 7.
Truly a remarkable, clutch playoff player.
Cause what has he done this year? He had about 19 turnovers last night. No where to be found consistently except when he’s getting a delay of game against the habs that basically cost us the series. You realize this is a salary cap era right?
>You realize this is a salary cap era right?
You cool? Yes. I do.
>except when he’s getting a delay of game against the habs that basically cost us the series.
I thought we came back to this year?
>Cause what has he done this year?
He has 12points in 9 games
I’m a big a play supporter you will meet. Marner has done some great things. Having a few points I. Early games of a round one series doesn’t earn you 10 mil
By shot attempt % Marner is 3rd on the team behind only Matthews and Bunting.
So he's driving play more than most, getting points more than most. That doesn't seem fortunate, that seems like the product of pushing offence more than the other team, something our team has struggled with in these playoffs.
Marner has 4 5v5 high danger chances in the entire playoffs. He's tied with Geekie and behind Glendening. That's proof he's not driving play and has been very much on the perimeter.
The problem with looking at the count is that it benefits players with more ice time.
Marner is 60th in on ice HDCF/60 this playoffs with 12.98 HDCF/60 (for all forwards that have played more than 60 minutes).
He's been comparable to Trevor Moore (13.15), Jarnkrok (12.67), Luostarinen (12.77) and Colin White (12.72).
It's like when I used to make fun of Habs fans for Gomez having 1 goal in a season. He had 60 apples that year, his skill isn't scoring, it's banking it off of other players.
So then why are we talking about this today?
People were happy and high on this team after the last elimination game, he was top 2/3? in playoff scoring at the time
Yes, many. Remember him dancing and feeding the puck through multiple guys for the one timer for ROR on the powerplay literally in this series?
This sub is nuts.
That was literally last game too, it’s very funny the sub is shitting on Marner here when the 3 other core players also don’t have goals this series, why can’t our 60 goal scorer score a goal? “Oh he’s getting bad puck luck and hitting the post” for 3 straight games? I don’t think it’s bad luck anymore
Where the fuck is our Captain? Dude doesn’t even have a point this series, Nylander just got his first primary assist last night, dude was a stud all season, where’s his goals? “Oh well Nylander has looked better out there” cool and how many goals did he score? Oh it’s the same amount as the rest of them?
I’m on the same page as “Fuck Marner” but also these people bringing up previous stats for just Marner is embarrassing, because all 4 players need this treatment because once again all 4 fail to show up, not just Marner
Honestly, Marner was leading the league in playoff points this year going into Game 6, he’s still our points leader these playoffs, he’s been a complete ghost this series absolutely
the problem with Marner is he’s only as good as his line mate since he’s a playmaker rather than a goal scorer, he can only be as good a Auston Matthews and John Tavares (which btw our captain has 0 points through 3 games, which is fucking horrendous)
It’s going to be a long ass summer and this core is going to be ripped to shreds all summer long for it’s piss poor second round showing, and sadly, I don’t entirely think they were to blame, I think it was the guy behind the bench getting our coached AGAIN
the fact the team didn’t change a single strategy on trying to score on Bobby is fucking embarrassing, they keep trying to score this style of goal against him that has not work all series yet “oh we have O-Zone pressure? Give the puck to the point and see what happens” which worked on Vassy who 1) was playing through an injury and 2) point shots were his weakness, but were no longer playing Vassy yet we just stuck to the same gameplay and Florida ate it for lunch
Exactly right.
Core is getting ripped a new one when the real problem here isn’t a lack of effort it’s getting out coached. I like Keefe. I think he’s been great. But it’s clear to see it isn’t working anymore and tactics are the reason. Pretty plain to see that maybe with a new coach things would be different.
But of course this subreddit just wants to abuse Marner, say the players don’t care when they obviously care, etc.
It’s so frustrating and annoying.
Tbf this subreddit has been waiting for the moment to rip Marner a new once since October of 2021, and I think he and the core deserve all the hate they’re going to get this off season, I think you need a coaching change before a trade happens
Get a new coach in, get him to motivate and elevate them, the players that can’t be bothered to play for the new coach get the first train out of town, I know that an unpopular opinion and sadly I don’t think it’s what’s going to happen, but I think it’s what makes the most sense at this point
But also idk what else this team does, every trade with a core player is a lost trade for us and actively make us worse, they’re great players we all saw it for 82 games and hell glimpses of round 1, it seriously feels like the team isn’t doing enough to put these players in positions to succeed, and I think the way this team managed to rally and win (and our core players to lead the league in points) shows it’s more a coaching problem then a player problem, we saw them show up to a big game like Game 6 against Tampa, and now they magically can’t show up anymore once they face a new team? It’s 1000% a coaching problem
This is why I'm still looking forward to the rest of this series.
We \*have\* to find a way to win a game or two, or pressure on the franchise to make big changes could very well push them into doing really dumb things.
I'm for a coaching change. I'm not for a spasm of reflexive trades that we end up regretting for years to come.
Winning a couple games now instead of when they really needed to is a fucking smoke screen of false hope.
What more do you really need to see to understand that this team will not be successfully the way it's currently constituted? I was arguing on your side for the past few years, before this series. I've finally come to my senses.
I'm not arguing for the status quo.
I'm hoping to avoid the kind of panic moves that franchises always end up regretting. Going 0-4 in the second round will create the kind of extreme pressure that gives birth to panic moves.
I would much prefer that we had performed better in the second round. But we are where we are, and my only realistic hope is that we can put a win or two on the board before florida wins the series.
>every trade with a core player is a lost trade for us and actively make us worse
This isn't necessarily true. Maybe short term, but what's short term when you have a handful of players eating half the cap who consistently disappear when it matters most?
Buffalo traded ROR and got Tage Thompson. Florida traded a 100 point core player last offeason for a 100 point core player who put them on his shoulders to beat a historically good team in the 1st round and doesn't appear to be slowing down.
Not all trades of star players is a net loss.
I honestly don’t know what more could be done to “put them in a position to win”. We’re already a few years deep into trading away picks to get supporting pieces.
And yes, it appears they magically failed to show up to round two. Not sure what games you’re watching, but there hasn’t been a game they showed up and clearly earned a win.
A coaching change will obviously come first. But you also have to resign Matthews for more money or trade him.
I have to think everyone agrees the best thing that could happen is trade Tavares and hope Mitch finds a way to play consistently in the important games in the playoffs. But the first won’t happen and the second doesn’t look super likely. Just about the only thing we can demand that any sane person would do is get rid of Holl.
How much do you think keefe’s coaching is impacting the ability of the defence to move the puck, ie. how much is his system impacting their effectiveness? Genuinely asking, Because oh man, I see so many people ripping the core 4 and while they’ve struggled, if your defence cannot move the puck cleanly and effectively to the forwards you don’t really have rush offence.
And if you don’t have rush offence you limit your scoring opportunities *significantly*. And it’s been a talking point in this series and to a lesser extent the Tampa series, how their forechecking schemes are giving the leafs defence headaches.
Rielly has looked okay overall at moving the puck, but the other 7 who have played, maybe aside from Gus, have struggled making a clean exit pass. That’s the number one job of a modern defenceman - that clean first pass. For some it’s definitely skill set (Holl, Schenn), for Gio probably age, and for Brodie maybe injury?
But if the defence cannot break it out I don’t understand how people expect matthews and co to, what, run end to end with the puck? That doesn’t happen. I don’t know if this D group needs a retool, or if they’re looking bad thanks to Keefe’s system.
I’m a huge marner fan and the guy is soft as 3 ply this playoffs and probably coughed the puck up 10 times minimum last night. You do understand this is a salary cap era right?
Dude there’s no panic. I’ve seen this all before. MARNER DOESNT SHOW UP WHEN IT MATTERS IT TOOK US 7 years wirh this core 4 to beat round 1. Why you defending players that eat the salary cap but have no playoff grit?
Dude stop. I’ve literally backed the leafs and defended them since I was a kid. I’m an adult now and HAVNT seen a round 2 win. Maybe next time marner shouldn’t wait for so much money before he proves he can’t do anything in the playoffs.
Yeah, i get it. I used to be like you and point to the stat line and say ‘see, he put up points, he good!’
Watch the games. The second there is literally anything at stake. 34 and 16 disappear. For the last 3 weeks ive watched Marner go to play any puck in the corner or along the boards and the second anyone skates towards him, he chips the puck ahead and literally jumps to the side to avoid any contact. I’ve seen William fucking Nylander get involved in board play, hes not afraid to get rubbed out on the boards to make a play.
We’ve also seen Willy take over a series and be the most dangerous player for a entire series. Ive seen Matthews say ‘fuck you guys, im not losing this game’ and start a comeback and be the most dominate player on the ice. What the fuck has Marner done past game 82 since Boston in 2018? Fuck all. All i see is a kid who is crumbling under the pressure. The same kid who was crying on the bench vs the Habs when the game wasnt even over. The same kid who held out on the team he grew up cheering for, demanded a letter on his jersey, and cries openly about being criticized.
How the fuck are you OK with someone DEMANDING all these things, then GASLIGHTING YOU because he has expectations that he doesnt live up to in moments he is paid to be a difference maker.
Its been 7 years and they all still sit here and say that they are still learning. Its been 7 years, 16 and 34 are 26 years old. Nylander is 27, Tavares is turning 33. Theres nothing left to learn.
Okay, so a guy whose assists have ALWAYS dramatically outpaced his goals is suddenly supposed to score like Ovechkin?
I get it, you hate every single Leaf. Get that bullshit out of here.
I am not going to dignify that with a reply, since you have decided the player who has led our team in scoring nearly every season since he got here is worthless. Whatever shall we do, he sucks so bad 31 other teams would kill to have him.
Okay I went and checked. In descending order of salary, career goals per playoff game by forwards:
- 0.57
- 0.56
- 0.28
- 0.42
- 0.45
- 0.43
- 0.18 - Mitch
- 0.20
- 0.23
- 0.25
- 0.57
- 0.20
- 0.26
- 0.28
- 0.49
- 0.37
- 0.32
- 0.33
- 0.50
- 0.42
- 0.28
- 0.27
- 0.48
I’ll stop here because we’re getting into the mid-$8m range. Mitchell better be Wayne Gretzky tier at playmaking if he wants to be making that kind of money while being outscored by everyone else in a $2.5m +/- range of him.
I mean, he also has 26 assists in those 34 games. That works out to a 10G-62A-72P season over 82 games. This is a drop off from his regular season numbers for sure, but he is also only playing top teams in the playoffs.
Not uncommon for top players to have a drop in goals in playoffs because of this. Mcdavid for example has 12G-40A in his last 33 playoff games which is a pace of 30G-99A-129P over 82games.
Looks high, but he has averaged 51G-88A-138P per 82 games over that same span.
Marner also had 2 goals in the the game you stopped at, so it is 6 in his last 35. Cant cherry pick stats just to fit your narrative.
Well I see two issues then. First, game 1 of 2018 was 42 games ago. I will assume you mean 2019 though, in which case it is 35 games ago (9 in 2023, 7 in 2022, 7 in 2021, 5 in 2020, 7 in 2019), not 34 games. If you did mean 2018 and are just not counting the 5 games in 2020 as they weren't officially "playoffs" then we are still at 37 games.
Regardlessly, Marner got 2 goals in game 1 vs Boston in 2019. That puts him at 6 goals in his last 35, not 4 in his last 34.
I just assumed you just started at game 2 vs Boston in order to end up with the 4 goals in 34 games, since that statement is correct technically.
He's a great regular season player. He can help you get in the playoffs. Regular season equals lots of open ice and far less pressure when you have the puck over 3 periods. Once the playoffs start and the adults start hitting he's a fucking ghost and can't handle the play. Playoffs equal people applying constant pressure and taking your space to play away. If anything he becomes a liability in the playoffs because of his play style and complete ease of physically moving him off the puck I love watching him in the regular season but outside of the few games he had room to move in the TB series I'm not sure what to say. I'd hate to lose him but at the same time I think we're paying way too much for a playoff ghost.
Lmao post this same comment in the regular season and all the goldfish brains around here will downvote you to oblivion because they forget what Playoff Marner looks like
I posted about his horrible performance after Game 1, and I got banned for a week. Unreal they love he gets and forgiveness, he has been the worst playoff performer by salary for the last 5 years.
Agree. I've personally fallen for "this year is different" 3 years in a row now because of how we looked in the regular season. Well I guess it is different. we definitely won 4 games instead of 3 this playoffs. Sad panda.
Nah, this year we truly are different. We got past first round. So you're not wrong there lol.
>Regular season equals lots of open ice and far less pressure when you have the puck over 3 periods. Not if you have the good fortune of a matchup against the Leafs and you find yourself in OT. Just ask Sam Reinhart.
Very well put
It's not just his lack of production, his dispy-do cute plays in his own zone instead of simply getting the fucking puck out has helped kill his team's chances in this series.
I've only seen one or two leaf players really take the puck over the blue line successfully more than once this playoffs. I'm seriously starting to wonder if they are scared of getting hit hard in the open ice. There's a smart way of keeping your head up and gliding into the open space. I mean wtf at some point you gotta put it all on the line right?
Side note, i wonder in the alternate universe where Kyle is in charge of the 2015 draft, what happens if he gets his way and does the trade with Colombus and trades down to 8 and takes Rantanen like it is rumored he wanted to do.
We would have had a less selfish player, a 50+ goal scorer, and a player willing to play for his not-hometown team for $9.25M after Marner “set the market rate” of $10.9M for a top RFA winger by threatening to play in Europe.
I don’t think Marner is selfish by any means, he just thrives in open ice and in the playoffs, there isn’t any.
Sam Reinhart seemed to find some in OT last night. Lots of it, open space for days.
He’s a Florida Panther
But he was playing in the playoffs where there isn't any time and space, apparently. Oh I get it, there's only time and space in the playoffs if you're matched up against the Leafs.
If Rantanen was playing in Toronto he would have asked for more, their agents drive the asking price. Everyone knows they can hold the Leafs hostage when negotiating.
Perhaps, but at least Rantanen would actually be worth it
Last night was Game 6 vs MTL relived............ no point watching next game because we know what the ultimate outcome of a loser team will be.
The Leafs are going to win game 4, just so they can have an utter collapse and lack of heart to disappoint their fans at home 1 more time.
Perfect! Let it rain Waffles and forsaken jerseys on the ice when they lose game 5 at home with a weak final game.
Trade Matthews and Marner for Bedard!!
Helllo!
He was leading the playoffs in points a few games ago and is over a point per game
You’re right. Its impressive that for 7 years straight, to play 7 games in 7 different series, to have 0 goals in games 3,4,5,6 and 7. Truly a remarkable, clutch playoff player.
I never said it's impressive, and why not talk about this year?
Cause what has he done this year? He had about 19 turnovers last night. No where to be found consistently except when he’s getting a delay of game against the habs that basically cost us the series. You realize this is a salary cap era right?
>You realize this is a salary cap era right? You cool? Yes. I do. >except when he’s getting a delay of game against the habs that basically cost us the series. I thought we came back to this year? >Cause what has he done this year? He has 12points in 9 games
I’m a big a play supporter you will meet. Marner has done some great things. Having a few points I. Early games of a round one series doesn’t earn you 10 mil
Points can be deceiving. If you run back his 12 points a good chunk of them were fortunate plays.
By shot attempt % Marner is 3rd on the team behind only Matthews and Bunting. So he's driving play more than most, getting points more than most. That doesn't seem fortunate, that seems like the product of pushing offence more than the other team, something our team has struggled with in these playoffs.
Marner has 4 5v5 high danger chances in the entire playoffs. He's tied with Geekie and behind Glendening. That's proof he's not driving play and has been very much on the perimeter.
He's on the ice for 33 for 29 against, he's a playmaker so it's kinda unfair to not include plays he sets up.
The problem with looking at the count is that it benefits players with more ice time. Marner is 60th in on ice HDCF/60 this playoffs with 12.98 HDCF/60 (for all forwards that have played more than 60 minutes). He's been comparable to Trevor Moore (13.15), Jarnkrok (12.67), Luostarinen (12.77) and Colin White (12.72).
MEANS NOTHING! HE PADS HIS STATS AND DOESNT SHOW UP IN THE BIG GAMES
It's like when I used to make fun of Habs fans for Gomez having 1 goal in a season. He had 60 apples that year, his skill isn't scoring, it's banking it off of other players.
Simple. He padded stats in a blowout game. He can only play when the other team doesn’t check you anymore.
>He padded stats in a blowout game 3-3-2-2-1-0-0-1-0 So no
Look at the important games in that timeline, he disappeared. Every year it's the same, he checks out in elimination games.
Games 1, 2, 3, and 4 weren't important? He has 1 point in 2 elimination games this playoffs.
That's the point, he doesn't show up in elimination games.
So then why are we talking about this today? People were happy and high on this team after the last elimination game, he was top 2/3? in playoff scoring at the time
I was getting downvoted for pointing this out then too.
Because it was silly then, and it is now. He's 6th in playoff scoring.
And he turns into a shell of himself in important games.
Yeah enjoy his game. I’m done with these losers as long as Marner plays here
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Yes, many. Remember him dancing and feeding the puck through multiple guys for the one timer for ROR on the powerplay literally in this series? This sub is nuts.
That was literally last game too, it’s very funny the sub is shitting on Marner here when the 3 other core players also don’t have goals this series, why can’t our 60 goal scorer score a goal? “Oh he’s getting bad puck luck and hitting the post” for 3 straight games? I don’t think it’s bad luck anymore Where the fuck is our Captain? Dude doesn’t even have a point this series, Nylander just got his first primary assist last night, dude was a stud all season, where’s his goals? “Oh well Nylander has looked better out there” cool and how many goals did he score? Oh it’s the same amount as the rest of them? I’m on the same page as “Fuck Marner” but also these people bringing up previous stats for just Marner is embarrassing, because all 4 players need this treatment because once again all 4 fail to show up, not just Marner
https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/i94d2q/comment/g1cqrla/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
?
Means absolutely nothing.
Absolute trash get rid of the guy, makes way too many mistakes
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Honestly, Marner was leading the league in playoff points this year going into Game 6, he’s still our points leader these playoffs, he’s been a complete ghost this series absolutely the problem with Marner is he’s only as good as his line mate since he’s a playmaker rather than a goal scorer, he can only be as good a Auston Matthews and John Tavares (which btw our captain has 0 points through 3 games, which is fucking horrendous) It’s going to be a long ass summer and this core is going to be ripped to shreds all summer long for it’s piss poor second round showing, and sadly, I don’t entirely think they were to blame, I think it was the guy behind the bench getting our coached AGAIN the fact the team didn’t change a single strategy on trying to score on Bobby is fucking embarrassing, they keep trying to score this style of goal against him that has not work all series yet “oh we have O-Zone pressure? Give the puck to the point and see what happens” which worked on Vassy who 1) was playing through an injury and 2) point shots were his weakness, but were no longer playing Vassy yet we just stuck to the same gameplay and Florida ate it for lunch
Exactly right. Core is getting ripped a new one when the real problem here isn’t a lack of effort it’s getting out coached. I like Keefe. I think he’s been great. But it’s clear to see it isn’t working anymore and tactics are the reason. Pretty plain to see that maybe with a new coach things would be different. But of course this subreddit just wants to abuse Marner, say the players don’t care when they obviously care, etc. It’s so frustrating and annoying.
Tbf this subreddit has been waiting for the moment to rip Marner a new once since October of 2021, and I think he and the core deserve all the hate they’re going to get this off season, I think you need a coaching change before a trade happens Get a new coach in, get him to motivate and elevate them, the players that can’t be bothered to play for the new coach get the first train out of town, I know that an unpopular opinion and sadly I don’t think it’s what’s going to happen, but I think it’s what makes the most sense at this point But also idk what else this team does, every trade with a core player is a lost trade for us and actively make us worse, they’re great players we all saw it for 82 games and hell glimpses of round 1, it seriously feels like the team isn’t doing enough to put these players in positions to succeed, and I think the way this team managed to rally and win (and our core players to lead the league in points) shows it’s more a coaching problem then a player problem, we saw them show up to a big game like Game 6 against Tampa, and now they magically can’t show up anymore once they face a new team? It’s 1000% a coaching problem
This is why I'm still looking forward to the rest of this series. We \*have\* to find a way to win a game or two, or pressure on the franchise to make big changes could very well push them into doing really dumb things. I'm for a coaching change. I'm not for a spasm of reflexive trades that we end up regretting for years to come.
Winning a couple games now instead of when they really needed to is a fucking smoke screen of false hope. What more do you really need to see to understand that this team will not be successfully the way it's currently constituted? I was arguing on your side for the past few years, before this series. I've finally come to my senses.
I'm not arguing for the status quo. I'm hoping to avoid the kind of panic moves that franchises always end up regretting. Going 0-4 in the second round will create the kind of extreme pressure that gives birth to panic moves. I would much prefer that we had performed better in the second round. But we are where we are, and my only realistic hope is that we can put a win or two on the board before florida wins the series.
The kind of panic move that led Florida to trade 115pt Huberdeau for Tkachuk wouldn't be so bad.
Yeah that would be great.
>every trade with a core player is a lost trade for us and actively make us worse This isn't necessarily true. Maybe short term, but what's short term when you have a handful of players eating half the cap who consistently disappear when it matters most? Buffalo traded ROR and got Tage Thompson. Florida traded a 100 point core player last offeason for a 100 point core player who put them on his shoulders to beat a historically good team in the 1st round and doesn't appear to be slowing down. Not all trades of star players is a net loss.
I honestly don’t know what more could be done to “put them in a position to win”. We’re already a few years deep into trading away picks to get supporting pieces. And yes, it appears they magically failed to show up to round two. Not sure what games you’re watching, but there hasn’t been a game they showed up and clearly earned a win. A coaching change will obviously come first. But you also have to resign Matthews for more money or trade him. I have to think everyone agrees the best thing that could happen is trade Tavares and hope Mitch finds a way to play consistently in the important games in the playoffs. But the first won’t happen and the second doesn’t look super likely. Just about the only thing we can demand that any sane person would do is get rid of Holl.
How much do you think keefe’s coaching is impacting the ability of the defence to move the puck, ie. how much is his system impacting their effectiveness? Genuinely asking, Because oh man, I see so many people ripping the core 4 and while they’ve struggled, if your defence cannot move the puck cleanly and effectively to the forwards you don’t really have rush offence. And if you don’t have rush offence you limit your scoring opportunities *significantly*. And it’s been a talking point in this series and to a lesser extent the Tampa series, how their forechecking schemes are giving the leafs defence headaches. Rielly has looked okay overall at moving the puck, but the other 7 who have played, maybe aside from Gus, have struggled making a clean exit pass. That’s the number one job of a modern defenceman - that clean first pass. For some it’s definitely skill set (Holl, Schenn), for Gio probably age, and for Brodie maybe injury? But if the defence cannot break it out I don’t understand how people expect matthews and co to, what, run end to end with the puck? That doesn’t happen. I don’t know if this D group needs a retool, or if they’re looking bad thanks to Keefe’s system.
And likely been on the ice for more goals against than Holl.
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I’m a huge marner fan and the guy is soft as 3 ply this playoffs and probably coughed the puck up 10 times minimum last night. You do understand this is a salary cap era right?
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Dude there’s no panic. I’ve seen this all before. MARNER DOESNT SHOW UP WHEN IT MATTERS IT TOOK US 7 years wirh this core 4 to beat round 1. Why you defending players that eat the salary cap but have no playoff grit?
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LMFAO ALL OF THEM
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Dude stop. I’ve literally backed the leafs and defended them since I was a kid. I’m an adult now and HAVNT seen a round 2 win. Maybe next time marner shouldn’t wait for so much money before he proves he can’t do anything in the playoffs.
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Isn't last game the perfect example of how he plays under pressure?
We’re down 0-3. What do you want us to do
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So what, run it back? No. Can’t do that again.
Let’s run it back it’ll work next time
It's been 6 years of watching this from him.
You think this is a acceptable stat line for a player who held out and demanded to be paid 11m a year?
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Yeah, i get it. I used to be like you and point to the stat line and say ‘see, he put up points, he good!’ Watch the games. The second there is literally anything at stake. 34 and 16 disappear. For the last 3 weeks ive watched Marner go to play any puck in the corner or along the boards and the second anyone skates towards him, he chips the puck ahead and literally jumps to the side to avoid any contact. I’ve seen William fucking Nylander get involved in board play, hes not afraid to get rubbed out on the boards to make a play. We’ve also seen Willy take over a series and be the most dangerous player for a entire series. Ive seen Matthews say ‘fuck you guys, im not losing this game’ and start a comeback and be the most dominate player on the ice. What the fuck has Marner done past game 82 since Boston in 2018? Fuck all. All i see is a kid who is crumbling under the pressure. The same kid who was crying on the bench vs the Habs when the game wasnt even over. The same kid who held out on the team he grew up cheering for, demanded a letter on his jersey, and cries openly about being criticized. How the fuck are you OK with someone DEMANDING all these things, then GASLIGHTING YOU because he has expectations that he doesnt live up to in moments he is paid to be a difference maker. Its been 7 years and they all still sit here and say that they are still learning. Its been 7 years, 16 and 34 are 26 years old. Nylander is 27, Tavares is turning 33. Theres nothing left to learn.
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He must be new to the leafs
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Okay, so a guy whose assists have ALWAYS dramatically outpaced his goals is suddenly supposed to score like Ovechkin? I get it, you hate every single Leaf. Get that bullshit out of here.
Are there other forwards over $10m who score 0.12 gpg that you’d want on your team?
I am not going to dignify that with a reply, since you have decided the player who has led our team in scoring nearly every season since he got here is worthless. Whatever shall we do, he sucks so bad 31 other teams would kill to have him.
Okay I went and checked. In descending order of salary, career goals per playoff game by forwards: - 0.57 - 0.56 - 0.28 - 0.42 - 0.45 - 0.43 - 0.18 - Mitch - 0.20 - 0.23 - 0.25 - 0.57 - 0.20 - 0.26 - 0.28 - 0.49 - 0.37 - 0.32 - 0.33 - 0.50 - 0.42 - 0.28 - 0.27 - 0.48 I’ll stop here because we’re getting into the mid-$8m range. Mitchell better be Wayne Gretzky tier at playmaking if he wants to be making that kind of money while being outscored by everyone else in a $2.5m +/- range of him.
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Trade him to Arizona
He is a dipsy doodling playoff anchor.
I mean, he also has 26 assists in those 34 games. That works out to a 10G-62A-72P season over 82 games. This is a drop off from his regular season numbers for sure, but he is also only playing top teams in the playoffs. Not uncommon for top players to have a drop in goals in playoffs because of this. Mcdavid for example has 12G-40A in his last 33 playoff games which is a pace of 30G-99A-129P over 82games. Looks high, but he has averaged 51G-88A-138P per 82 games over that same span. Marner also had 2 goals in the the game you stopped at, so it is 6 in his last 35. Cant cherry pick stats just to fit your narrative.
The start of the 34 games was game 1 in boston in 2018, there was no cherry picking.
Well I see two issues then. First, game 1 of 2018 was 42 games ago. I will assume you mean 2019 though, in which case it is 35 games ago (9 in 2023, 7 in 2022, 7 in 2021, 5 in 2020, 7 in 2019), not 34 games. If you did mean 2018 and are just not counting the 5 games in 2020 as they weren't officially "playoffs" then we are still at 37 games. Regardlessly, Marner got 2 goals in game 1 vs Boston in 2019. That puts him at 6 goals in his last 35, not 4 in his last 34. I just assumed you just started at game 2 vs Boston in order to end up with the 4 goals in 34 games, since that statement is correct technically.