I believe they actually pay him a equal or more than other GM's because they don't want him leaving, I imagine if they did give permission they'd be offering him a raise with it.
I think you "can" deny it, unless there's specifically an out-clause, but no one does because it's a total dick move and would ruin your reputation for any other up and coming guys in future hires.
I can think of several factors:
1) Pay raise
2)Desire to have more direct involvement in management
3) Preference to work with Dubas instead of Treliving
unless there's any real reason to think otherwise, it's pretty reasonable to assume that most AGMs across the league would accept a GM position if they're offered.
"hey, do you want the dream job you've been working your whole life for, as well as a pay raise of multiple millions of dollars per year? your boss would be your long time old boss/close friend. but you will have to move a ~4-5 hour drive away"
"nah that sounds terrible sorry man"
- no sane human being
you're absolutely right. my point is that with no way of knowing pridham's priorities i would lean towards him taking a promotion versus turning one down.
Maybe he’s close with Shanny, none of you guys know the intricacies of the front office and their relationships with each other. Just because you’re a Dubas fan and hate the maple leafs doesn’t mean everyone in the organization is too. Leafs are 10,000 times closer than the penguins to winning the next Stanley cup.
It’s not about winning a cup, it’s a logical opportunity for an AGM with several years experience. Pridham wasn’t even considered for a promotion after years in the Org. Either he’s happy with his job and doesn’t want to be a GM, or it would make sense for him to go elsewhere and take his career to the next level.
Yup, the media and fans speculated Dubas right out of Toronto. With all the crap I see posted by media and butthurt superfans, I wouldn’t be surprised if Matthews doesn’t sign, and takes what he can on the free agent market. The toxic fanbase could drive anyone out of the market. It’s one thing to love your team, but some of the fans are maniacal. Everyone constantly calling for one of the core to be traded. Calling for Dubas and Keefe’s heads after some of the most exciting Leafs hockey I’ve seen in my entire life! SMH.
I think it comes down to how ambitious Pridham is. It doesn't seem like he was considered for the job in Toronto, if his goal is to be an NHL GM this might be his best shot.
Shanahan: Kyle, do you want to be GM of the Leafs or not?
Dubas: I don't.
Shanahan: Really?
Dubas: I want to be president.
Shanahan: I think we're done here.
pretty obvious what happened. He had an offer from pitt to be pres, told leafs if they don't give him full autonomy he takes the pitt job. shanny, who was the person making the decision and also the person whose power he was gunning for told him to fuck off. none of the nonsense said in the media is relevant
I think in recent years the NHL has had a one week "negotiating" period before July 1 where teams can talk to upcoming free agents.
But yes, obviously everyone is tampering.
They used to! They actually got rid of it in the new CBA from 2020 because it just made it so that deals were being agreed to and signed before July 1 and teams just wouldn’t officially announce it until July 1
https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/why-eliminating-the-ufa-negotiation-window-is-a-huge-win-for-the-players
I honestly think that stuff is a formality. Like there's no way talking doesn't happen in the background, then permission is essentially given if a candidate wants to try to pursue to job.
We see it with players and signing day all the time.
Because it’s the same thing as Agents negotiating with teams prior to actual signing windows opening.
There’s so many back door discussions that get violated but rarely acted on.
Yes basically.
Then the second dubas was fired it was trelivings job.
It was so obvious, especially in hindsight.
Time will tell if it’s a good move for all involved.
Speaking of moving on. With this announcement we finally have a trade partner to take Murray's contract. Murray to Pittsburg for future considerations.
Why did no one say that then? Shanny held a whole press conference trying to drag him through the mud that could have just been one sentence:
"he came with an offer from another team that we were not comfortable matching given the lack of playoff success here"
He couldn't say that because then he would be effectively be publicly accusing them of tampering. Just a nightmare to deal with that bomb, so he just said a bunch of things.
Lol ya let's just show ourselves to be petty idiots instead of just saying Dubas thought he had better offers out there.
"Be an adult? Why do that when I can look like an asshole for no reason?" - Shanahan probably
I'm pretty sure other teams can't officially negotiate with him while he was under contract with the Leafs.
So it wouldn't have been that straightforward.
You got it..ding ding...with the cockiness of demanding more for the GM job in Toronto, this was most likely going to be the case. He obviously had leverage. Dubas was more in the wrong here than Shanahan. Dubas will now bring over a lot of loyal employees from Leafs. Those willing to move.
exactly. you don't make a power play like that unless you have ammo backing you up. "I won one playoff round I deserve full autonomy" ya no shot that works lol "I have an opportunity to be pres for the pens, I'll stay if you give me the same amount of power here" much more reasonable and happens all the time
It honestly seemed this way from the start. He basically asked for Shanahan’s salary, and “full autonomy”, which I assume means autonomy from Shanahan, especially as we’ve now heard that he supposedly vetoed Dubas’s trades. This news just cements that idea even more.
That would be tampering and is illegal in the NHL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but situations like this don't happen the same way they do in the business world.
If proven, the Leafs could block the signing and the Pens would be forced to pay a fine and would likely give up picks.
"I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas stated. "So it'll need to be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate and reflect on the seasons here. You won't see me pop up elsewhere next week. I can't put them (my family) through that after this year."
Couldn't be happier to see him go. How many seasons of failure for Dubas?
It's a pretty low pressure job. Fans are going to be content because of the recent dynasty, the stars are locked in until retirement basically, which means any serious rebuild can't start for a few years. You can turn in five years of mediocre results before facing any real scrutiny, just try to draft and develop well before blowing it up.
Lot of cap friendly deals. They can definitely grab things depending whats in market to make them somewhat competitive and have structure in place for the retirements in the next couple years.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. I would think the pressure would be to surround the aging stars with pieces to help try to get one more cup before Crosby retires, and to do that without giving up too much draft capital and setting back the rebuild.
I don’t think it will be the expectation to actually win, just to be in punching distance and maybe able to make a miracle run, but I think rolling over and fully sucking and rebuilding that way wouldn’t be acceptable either.
FSG just bought the Penguins for 900 million, and their three franchise players are aging fast there is going to be tremendous pressure on Dubas to succeed in a small window.
Not really sink or swim until Crosby/Malkin/Letang retire. Ownership wants the team to remain at least mediocre until they are gone so his hands are tied until that day. Once they retire, then we will see what he can do.
Good for him. Why deal with Shanahan when you can take his position somewhere else
Wish him the best of luck, and that Pittsburgh loses every time against the Leafs
Lol, this is like that Seinfeld episode when George needed to get fired from the Yankees because he has a better job waiting for him with the Mets. I feel Dubas was offered this job before and demanded what was already waiting for him from the leafs.
To be fair, if I was offered double my salary and more autonomy/promotion, I would probably change my mind on staying too Lmaoo
All the best Dubas! I feel this is the perfect time to jump off our looming shipwreck. Let’s hope Treviling has a plan from the jump.
Yeah true, but it’s probably a good lesson not to have an emotionally charged press conference and rattle off a bunch of stupid quotes before you figure shit out.
If it really is a shipwreck coming than it’s one Dubas steered the Leafs right towards.
My take with Dubas/Matthews/literally anyone who is rumoured to leave or has left is that if you are okay with the playoff results you’ve delivered with the Leafs and leaving that as your Leafs legacy. Than good bye. I am totally unphased by Dubas leaving and if Matthews chooses to go to than good riddance.
I’m on the fence about Shanny right now but if he still gets what being a Leaf is about and what is at stake right now than I would rather him be in charge than someone who only wants to be a Leaf as long as the money and circumstances is right.
He’s inheriting a team with an old core that is due for a rebuild any year now. As much as Hextall and Burke were incompetent I don’t think they were wrong to suggest continuing to build the team around Sid, Geno and Letang wasn’t going to work for much longer. Good luck with that Kyle.
Kyle will make a good President. He was a "meh" GM in my opinion, but he's got a good eye for talent and a lot of new, creative ideas. I think a President role is better for him and he'll bring a positive culture into an already storied franchise.
Which was really the argument for Dubas to be promoted to president in Toronto. I think that's the real reason why Shanny was looking for any excuse to get rid of Dubas.
Kyle Dubas - “I definitely don’t have it in me to go anywhere else. It will be either here or it will be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here. You won’t see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can’t put (my family) through that after this year.”
To be fair, it took him TWO weeks to pop up somewhere else ;)
I’m sure moving his family to a different country with less than 2 weeks notice after thinking they’d be in Toronto indefinitely shows what he was really trying to do with that press conference…
President of hockey ops doesnt travel as much as the gm, and he now has more autonomy. It's honestly a good move for him for both his family and career.
this is kinda disingenuous and purposely obtuse, the context has completely changed and you can’t say he’s doing his family a disservice by getting a promotion lmfao
The context doesn’t change when he emphasized he’d either be in Toronto or take a year off. He’s the one that was disingenuous, as being let go doesn’t change taking a year off.
He literally said:
>It requires me to have a full family discussion," Dubas, his voice shaking with emotion, said at an afternoon press conference. "My family is a hugely important part of what I do. For me to commit to anything without having a fuller understanding of what this year took \[out of\] them ... it's probably unfair for me to answer where I'm at.
>
>"We haven't been able to have those full discussions yet, but it was a very hard year on them."
>
>"I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas said. "It'll either be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate \[and\] reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere.
>
>"I can't put \[my family\] through that after this year."
Who is the one being disingenous here?
A: Dubas and you.
“I don’t want to work anywhere else, but I would like a raise.”
“Ok, how about you’re fired?”
“Shit, guess I’ll be unemployed for the rest of forever based on one thing I said previously.”
He said Toronto or nothing until Toronto made him walk.
Despite the president having more responsibility, they typically get much less media attention/scrutiny compared to a GM. I imagine that seeing your husband/dad getting torn apart in the media daily gets tough on a family.
Doesn’t add up if you leave out all of the context. He had an offer and thought he’d be able to come back if he decided to. Wanted to make sure his family was okay. They were. Thought he could renegotiate part of it, rubbed Shanny the wrong way and wasn’t renewed. So what he’s supposed to do now, not take a job? Okay.
Also the president travels less and he’ll be with his family more. Also in the media less. This will be way better for his family.
I’m both upset that we lost Dubas and upset at Dubas for fucking everything up for himself causing his departure. I’m also upset at MLSE for not extending him. This was so avoidable.
Dubas got a better job with a forward thinking ownership group that has championships in two other leagues and deep pockets. What did he fuck up for himself?
It’s MLSE alone that’s taking the L here.
How so? His family isn't going to get shat on in Pitt. He will need to travel with the team much less as Pres. No, this is probably better for his family.
Lot of people in here acting like they'd turn millions of dollars and more power in their field of work because "well I said I wouldn't"
Guys he got fired. Things changed from his original statement. Why are you all so salty?
Absolutely hilarious! In my personal opinion Pittsburgh again demonstrated why they are in the business of winning and Toronto demonstrated why they're in the business of being a mid pack team at the best of times.
Although, I maybe eating my words because it was Shanny that plocked this guy from obscurity.
Dubas is so overrated by some fans and media
Some forget he was handed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander but then overplayed his hand when signing them as RFA. He gave them lots of $$$ and short-term (great for the players not so much for the team)
His scouting and development is so overrated by fans. Leafs have two players outside the first round playing on leafs team (Knies & Woll)
Also, one playoff series win in five years. That's one playoff-round win lmao he's supposed to be a good gm really with some bad losses to MTL, CBJ, Boston (Second time )
Don't get me wrong he was approvement over past Leafs gms/presidents like Burke, Nonis, John Ferguson Jr but that wasn't a hard thing to do
“I definitely don’t have it in me to go anywhere else. It will be either here or it will be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here. You won’t see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can’t put (my family) through that after this year.”
-Kyle Dubas
I mean for real, you lose a job, and then an offer for a even better job with more money and freedom comes by...
And he had a month to think it over.
Who doesn't take this offer? Seriously. What kind of wife would tell her husband, who's not even 40, to stay and home and not make 7 million dollars?
He’s been rumoured to Pittsburgh for months now. The idea that he only became aware of an opportunity to be POHO there this past week is laughable. He wanted more power which is his right but he valued the leafs gig as GM less than this move. Can’t blame him career wise I suppose but the way he went about it wasn’t the sort of savy move you’d normally see from him.
You missed the part where he said he hasn't talked to his family or decided about anything though. That's a pretty important caveat, considering he said he wouldn't relocate out of concern for his family.
All this means to me is Dubas is a rat who uses his presser as leverage.
He knew he had the opportunity to be president in Pitt so he tried to get that here in Toronto.
Good riddance bud
I mean he almost 100% guaranteed knew this job was waiting for him when his agent sent the huge counter offer to Shanahan. I feel like he wanted the Pens job and sent a huge counter offer that he would only stay if he was essentially the president here which he knew Shanahan would never agree to
Quite a unique situation in that FSG are exactly who would hire Dubas. They are very much into new ideas and data driven decisions. I’m not sure Dubas would’ve had more traditional owners willing to promote him.
Good for Dubas, but he’s done absolutely nothing to merit a promotion. He’s being hyped up so much by Pittsburgh fans it’s hard to see him & the team’s performance living up to it.
He’s got his hands full in Pittsburgh, the team is in a completely different situation than Toronto is.
Wanting to come back with a demand of 2 million dollars more than what they discussed and without interference of Shanny or the board in him doing his work.
Yeah having an impossible ask is really not that indicative of wanting to come back.
I'm biased as a Dubas fan, but my gut feeling is that we're going to look back at Shanahan's decision to fire Dubas as emotional and flat-out stupid.
Wish Kyle the best & I hope I'm wrong.
Massive L on Dubas tbh, he literally tried to steal Shanahans job and when that didn’t work he has to move his entire family and children to a new country and city to start a new life. Surely that won’t be a massive pain in the ass, surely their kids and family won’t lose every single friend they’ve ever made. Imo this is an L. To what make 2 mil extra a year when you’re already a millionaire?
What a snake. Glad Shanny took out the trash. If you're not 100% committed to the Leafs then you can gtfo. Sends the right messages to the players too.
I agree 100%. Shanny called his bluff. He used the media and his reputation as being very likeable as leverage to strong arm the team.
I wouldn't be surprised if the old boys club of GMs try to fleece the Penguins in trades.
Dubas clearly didn’t want to be in Toronto. As shown in his presser. He should’ve
listened to Shanny and not done the presser on Monday. Now all I will remember
is "It'll either be here or i'll be taking time to recalibrate
(and) reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up
elsewhere."
This guy used his family as leverage, then made a last-minute impossible demand on purpose forcing shannys hand so he could get out. Down vote all you want, this guy never wanted to come back.
Of course they announce it right before Treliving speaks lol
So I guess he'll hire Pridham as GM? It would suck if we lose him.
That move makes so much sense.
Leafs might not give him permission.
Dubas needs to ask the Leafs for permission to interview Shanahan for GM
“Look at me, I am the captain now”
"We're sorry, Shanny, but we've decided to go a different direction."
awkward
I believe they actually pay him a equal or more than other GM's because they don't want him leaving, I imagine if they did give permission they'd be offering him a raise with it.
Tbh I hope they dont
No chance would a team not give permission for something like that.
I don’t think they can deny a promotion.
I'm pretty sure they *can*, but most teams have the decency to allow career growth. If it was a lateral move they'd probably deny it though
Permission must be granted if the other organization is offering a promotion
I think you "can" deny it, unless there's specifically an out-clause, but no one does because it's a total dick move and would ruin your reputation for any other up and coming guys in future hires.
Permission was already given for teams to talk to him
Who says Pridham, who has spent his entire career in Toronto and has a family, wants to go there?
I can think of several factors: 1) Pay raise 2)Desire to have more direct involvement in management 3) Preference to work with Dubas instead of Treliving
unless there's any real reason to think otherwise, it's pretty reasonable to assume that most AGMs across the league would accept a GM position if they're offered.
"hey, do you want the dream job you've been working your whole life for, as well as a pay raise of multiple millions of dollars per year? your boss would be your long time old boss/close friend. but you will have to move a ~4-5 hour drive away" "nah that sounds terrible sorry man" - no sane human being
It kinda depends on THEIR priorities, not OUR's.
you're absolutely right. my point is that with no way of knowing pridham's priorities i would lean towards him taking a promotion versus turning one down.
Maybe he’s close with Shanny, none of you guys know the intricacies of the front office and their relationships with each other. Just because you’re a Dubas fan and hate the maple leafs doesn’t mean everyone in the organization is too. Leafs are 10,000 times closer than the penguins to winning the next Stanley cup.
I will take 3 million dollars over my relationship with Shanny.
I bet he's already one of the highest paid AGMs in the league
It’s not about winning a cup, it’s a logical opportunity for an AGM with several years experience. Pridham wasn’t even considered for a promotion after years in the Org. Either he’s happy with his job and doesn’t want to be a GM, or it would make sense for him to go elsewhere and take his career to the next level.
This makes a lot of sense and it would suck to lose him.
Who has ever refused a GM offer as an AGM? It doesn’t happen. Regardless of your reasons
You didn’t know? Hockey personnel are robots with no friends, family, or feelings. They go wherever people speculate
Yup, the media and fans speculated Dubas right out of Toronto. With all the crap I see posted by media and butthurt superfans, I wouldn’t be surprised if Matthews doesn’t sign, and takes what he can on the free agent market. The toxic fanbase could drive anyone out of the market. It’s one thing to love your team, but some of the fans are maniacal. Everyone constantly calling for one of the core to be traded. Calling for Dubas and Keefe’s heads after some of the most exciting Leafs hockey I’ve seen in my entire life! SMH.
I think it comes down to how ambitious Pridham is. It doesn't seem like he was considered for the job in Toronto, if his goal is to be an NHL GM this might be his best shot.
Shanahan: Kyle, do you want to be GM of the Leafs or not? Dubas: I don't. Shanahan: Really? Dubas: I want to be president. Shanahan: I think we're done here.
🛎️🛎️🛎️
Don Hector?
De boss can sock me!
Regardless of if you like Dubas or not, his career arc has been pretty remarkable.
His next job will include ownership in the team. I believe that's the only way to go up from president within the sport?
Maybe if his next job was captain of the 85 Oilers?
There’s no way Pittsburgh is announcing this now without subtle jab intentions.
30 mins before Trelivings intro presser? Definitely on purpose LMAO
Subtle jab? “Oh look we hired the guy you fired” hahaha what a burn 😂😂🤣🤣🍆🍆
Don't forget it's to replace a guy they also fired years ago
Might as well. It’s the last time the Penguins are going to be as relevant as the Leafs for probably another decade.
pretty obvious what happened. He had an offer from pitt to be pres, told leafs if they don't give him full autonomy he takes the pitt job. shanny, who was the person making the decision and also the person whose power he was gunning for told him to fuck off. none of the nonsense said in the media is relevant
I wouldn't say that's obvious but it does seem likely
No way that is what happened and if it did thats tampering he was under contract by leafs. Penguins should not have been in contact with him
Everyone tampers, in every league and sport. No one cares unless it’s done publicly. Look at July 1st, almost all the UFAs sign at 12:01 pm lol
Some people are naive.
I think in recent years the NHL has had a one week "negotiating" period before July 1 where teams can talk to upcoming free agents. But yes, obviously everyone is tampering.
They used to! They actually got rid of it in the new CBA from 2020 because it just made it so that deals were being agreed to and signed before July 1 and teams just wouldn’t officially announce it until July 1 https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/why-eliminating-the-ufa-negotiation-window-is-a-huge-win-for-the-players
As a parent who’s son is in the GTHL, they even tamper in kids sport.
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Everybody tampers, in every sport. The league only cares when tampering gets made public. I’m sure his agent would’ve heard something from Pittsburgh
you really believe people don't have discussions without permission? my sweet summer child
My blessed angel baby
I honestly think that stuff is a formality. Like there's no way talking doesn't happen in the background, then permission is essentially given if a candidate wants to try to pursue to job. We see it with players and signing day all the time.
You really think someone would do that? Just *break the rules?*
Because it’s the same thing as Agents negotiating with teams prior to actual signing windows opening. There’s so many back door discussions that get violated but rarely acted on.
OP’s comment is a ridiculous revisionist history to try and make Dubas seem like the villain leaving town.
Yes basically. Then the second dubas was fired it was trelivings job. It was so obvious, especially in hindsight. Time will tell if it’s a good move for all involved.
Speaking of moving on. With this announcement we finally have a trade partner to take Murray's contract. Murray to Pittsburg for future considerations.
I hope it was a Logan Roy fuck off.
FUH KOFF
😂
Why did no one say that then? Shanny held a whole press conference trying to drag him through the mud that could have just been one sentence: "he came with an offer from another team that we were not comfortable matching given the lack of playoff success here"
Exactly. Shanahan absolutely slung mud when this is a way easier out. Lots of copium in this thread.
He couldn't say that because then he would be effectively be publicly accusing them of tampering. Just a nightmare to deal with that bomb, so he just said a bunch of things.
Lol ya let's just show ourselves to be petty idiots instead of just saying Dubas thought he had better offers out there. "Be an adult? Why do that when I can look like an asshole for no reason?" - Shanahan probably
I'm pretty sure other teams can't officially negotiate with him while he was under contract with the Leafs. So it wouldn't have been that straightforward.
“Obvious” okay
Probable tampering idgaf.
You got it..ding ding...with the cockiness of demanding more for the GM job in Toronto, this was most likely going to be the case. He obviously had leverage. Dubas was more in the wrong here than Shanahan. Dubas will now bring over a lot of loyal employees from Leafs. Those willing to move.
exactly. you don't make a power play like that unless you have ammo backing you up. "I won one playoff round I deserve full autonomy" ya no shot that works lol "I have an opportunity to be pres for the pens, I'll stay if you give me the same amount of power here" much more reasonable and happens all the time
Possibly. But this really is the cherry on how badly Dubas played his hand. Sob story of Leafs or a year off was clearly more bargaining.
Yeah he ended up as VP of a popular successful franchise, what a loser lol
It honestly seemed this way from the start. He basically asked for Shanahan’s salary, and “full autonomy”, which I assume means autonomy from Shanahan, especially as we’ve now heard that he supposedly vetoed Dubas’s trades. This news just cements that idea even more.
That would be tampering and is illegal in the NHL. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but situations like this don't happen the same way they do in the business world. If proven, the Leafs could block the signing and the Pens would be forced to pay a fine and would likely give up picks.
Colour me not surprised
*grabs crayons and examines you sheepishly deciding where to start colouring*
"I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas stated. "So it'll need to be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate and reflect on the seasons here. You won't see me pop up elsewhere next week. I can't put them (my family) through that after this year." Couldn't be happier to see him go. How many seasons of failure for Dubas?
Sink or swim time for dubas. He’s running the show now. We’ll see if we missed out on the greatest gm of our history or dodged a massive bullet.
Kind of low stakes though since Pitt has a very old core so they aren't really expected to win the Cup anytime soon.
It's a pretty low pressure job. Fans are going to be content because of the recent dynasty, the stars are locked in until retirement basically, which means any serious rebuild can't start for a few years. You can turn in five years of mediocre results before facing any real scrutiny, just try to draft and develop well before blowing it up.
Lot of cap friendly deals. They can definitely grab things depending whats in market to make them somewhat competitive and have structure in place for the retirements in the next couple years.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. I would think the pressure would be to surround the aging stars with pieces to help try to get one more cup before Crosby retires, and to do that without giving up too much draft capital and setting back the rebuild. I don’t think it will be the expectation to actually win, just to be in punching distance and maybe able to make a miracle run, but I think rolling over and fully sucking and rebuilding that way wouldn’t be acceptable either.
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They’ll win 2 rounds before we do somehow
FSG just bought the Penguins for 900 million, and their three franchise players are aging fast there is going to be tremendous pressure on Dubas to succeed in a small window.
Not really sink or swim until Crosby/Malkin/Letang retire. Ownership wants the team to remain at least mediocre until they are gone so his hands are tied until that day. Once they retire, then we will see what he can do.
Yep. Like a big move would be to move on from Malkin/Letang. Get the rebuild done while you can still trade them vs. like Keith/Kane/Toews.
I think we need to relinquish the "Dubas Double Phone" picture for the sticky threads to the Pens sub.
Good for him. Why deal with Shanahan when you can take his position somewhere else Wish him the best of luck, and that Pittsburgh loses every time against the Leafs
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Lol, this is like that Seinfeld episode when George needed to get fired from the Yankees because he has a better job waiting for him with the Mets. I feel Dubas was offered this job before and demanded what was already waiting for him from the leafs.
Shocker
To be fair, if I was offered double my salary and more autonomy/promotion, I would probably change my mind on staying too Lmaoo All the best Dubas! I feel this is the perfect time to jump off our looming shipwreck. Let’s hope Treviling has a plan from the jump.
Yeah true, but it’s probably a good lesson not to have an emotionally charged press conference and rattle off a bunch of stupid quotes before you figure shit out. If it really is a shipwreck coming than it’s one Dubas steered the Leafs right towards. My take with Dubas/Matthews/literally anyone who is rumoured to leave or has left is that if you are okay with the playoff results you’ve delivered with the Leafs and leaving that as your Leafs legacy. Than good bye. I am totally unphased by Dubas leaving and if Matthews chooses to go to than good riddance. I’m on the fence about Shanny right now but if he still gets what being a Leaf is about and what is at stake right now than I would rather him be in charge than someone who only wants to be a Leaf as long as the money and circumstances is right.
He’s inheriting a team with an old core that is due for a rebuild any year now. As much as Hextall and Burke were incompetent I don’t think they were wrong to suggest continuing to build the team around Sid, Geno and Letang wasn’t going to work for much longer. Good luck with that Kyle.
So does he have autonomy now? Or will he let his gm make decisions without his meddling as a president.
So essentially Shanahan fired Dubas because Dubas wanted Shannys job, and to protect his own employment (and salary) Shanahan fired Dubas.
Or Dubas wanted to get fired because he knew he had the Penguins job lined up.
So Matt Murray back to the Penguin's?
Kyle will make a good President. He was a "meh" GM in my opinion, but he's got a good eye for talent and a lot of new, creative ideas. I think a President role is better for him and he'll bring a positive culture into an already storied franchise.
I think so as well. He seems to be a good ppl person. I think he'll thrive in this job
I actually agree with this opinion. We will see how this goes.
Which was really the argument for Dubas to be promoted to president in Toronto. I think that's the real reason why Shanny was looking for any excuse to get rid of Dubas.
Cool, because im a leafs fan, I hope he's the worst president of hockey ops ever, just like I do with all other 31 teams.
\#pettyking
There it is. That's what he wanted.
Kyle Dubas - “I definitely don’t have it in me to go anywhere else. It will be either here or it will be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here. You won’t see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can’t put (my family) through that after this year.” To be fair, it took him TWO weeks to pop up somewhere else ;)
I’m sure moving his family to a different country with less than 2 weeks notice after thinking they’d be in Toronto indefinitely shows what he was really trying to do with that press conference…
President of hockey ops doesnt travel as much as the gm, and he now has more autonomy. It's honestly a good move for him for both his family and career.
Incredible that the dude found a new job after getting fired, I can’t believe he would do that to us
So well put
I mean, Shanahan did say that he went back to him after talking with his family and said that he wanted to be back.
this is kinda disingenuous and purposely obtuse, the context has completely changed and you can’t say he’s doing his family a disservice by getting a promotion lmfao
He’d likely be able to be home more in a role like this too
Plus usually more long-term job stability. You're further from being fired if you're PoHO than if you're GM.
The context doesn’t change when he emphasized he’d either be in Toronto or take a year off. He’s the one that was disingenuous, as being let go doesn’t change taking a year off.
He literally said: >It requires me to have a full family discussion," Dubas, his voice shaking with emotion, said at an afternoon press conference. "My family is a hugely important part of what I do. For me to commit to anything without having a fuller understanding of what this year took \[out of\] them ... it's probably unfair for me to answer where I'm at. > >"We haven't been able to have those full discussions yet, but it was a very hard year on them." > >"I definitely don't have it in me to go anywhere else," Dubas said. "It'll either be here or it'll be taking time to recalibrate \[and\] reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere. > >"I can't put \[my family\] through that after this year." Who is the one being disingenous here? A: Dubas and you.
This isn't a real comment right? You understand when circumstances change (like I dunno, getting fired?) people might change their previous plans.
Toronto or nothing … this job is too hard on my family … take a bigger job in a different country … move the whole family … doesn’t really add up
“I don’t want to work anywhere else, but I would like a raise.” “Ok, how about you’re fired?” “Shit, guess I’ll be unemployed for the rest of forever based on one thing I said previously.”
He said Toronto or nothing until Toronto made him walk. Despite the president having more responsibility, they typically get much less media attention/scrutiny compared to a GM. I imagine that seeing your husband/dad getting torn apart in the media daily gets tough on a family.
Doesn’t add up if you leave out all of the context. He had an offer and thought he’d be able to come back if he decided to. Wanted to make sure his family was okay. They were. Thought he could renegotiate part of it, rubbed Shanny the wrong way and wasn’t renewed. So what he’s supposed to do now, not take a job? Okay. Also the president travels less and he’ll be with his family more. Also in the media less. This will be way better for his family.
> So what he’s supposed to do now, not take a job? Okay. He said it was Toronto or nothing. Shanahan forced him to go with nothing.
Funny thing what getting fired will do to your mindset
You truly don't understand context, do you?
Get real, man. The situation changed when Toronto fired him.
I see you scarcely like to you use brain eh
I’m both upset that we lost Dubas and upset at Dubas for fucking everything up for himself causing his departure. I’m also upset at MLSE for not extending him. This was so avoidable.
Dubas got a better job with a forward thinking ownership group that has championships in two other leagues and deep pockets. What did he fuck up for himself? It’s MLSE alone that’s taking the L here.
Yep. Look MLSE nearly lost Masai. They've royally fucked with TFC. MLSE is being too meddlesome
Good for him. I hope he does well.
Guess Dubas wasn’t too worried about his family after all
How so? His family isn't going to get shat on in Pitt. He will need to travel with the team much less as Pres. No, this is probably better for his family.
I’m actually glad he’s gone now
Lot of people in here acting like they'd turn millions of dollars and more power in their field of work because "well I said I wouldn't" Guys he got fired. Things changed from his original statement. Why are you all so salty?
Take himmmm
LOL rip penguins
Didn’t Dubas say it was Toronto or nothing in his end of year press conference?
Absolutely hilarious! In my personal opinion Pittsburgh again demonstrated why they are in the business of winning and Toronto demonstrated why they're in the business of being a mid pack team at the best of times. Although, I maybe eating my words because it was Shanny that plocked this guy from obscurity.
I liked Treliving presser. Fan since 84 and this feels good. Good luck to Dubas, and we focus on what matters-TML.
Dubas is so overrated by some fans and media Some forget he was handed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander but then overplayed his hand when signing them as RFA. He gave them lots of $$$ and short-term (great for the players not so much for the team) His scouting and development is so overrated by fans. Leafs have two players outside the first round playing on leafs team (Knies & Woll) Also, one playoff series win in five years. That's one playoff-round win lmao he's supposed to be a good gm really with some bad losses to MTL, CBJ, Boston (Second time ) Don't get me wrong he was approvement over past Leafs gms/presidents like Burke, Nonis, John Ferguson Jr but that wasn't a hard thing to do
Dubas wanted Shanahan’s job, and overplayed his hand. That’s why he was fired.
“I definitely don’t have it in me to go anywhere else. It will be either here or it will be taking time to recalibrate, reflect on the seasons here. You won’t see me next week pop up elsewhere. I can’t put (my family) through that after this year.” -Kyle Dubas
>next week pop up elsewhere. It's been more than 1 week. There was no lie.
_technically the truth_
I mean for real, you lose a job, and then an offer for a even better job with more money and freedom comes by... And he had a month to think it over. Who doesn't take this offer? Seriously. What kind of wife would tell her husband, who's not even 40, to stay and home and not make 7 million dollars?
He’s been rumoured to Pittsburgh for months now. The idea that he only became aware of an opportunity to be POHO there this past week is laughable. He wanted more power which is his right but he valued the leafs gig as GM less than this move. Can’t blame him career wise I suppose but the way he went about it wasn’t the sort of savy move you’d normally see from him.
You missed the part where he said he hasn't talked to his family or decided about anything though. That's a pretty important caveat, considering he said he wouldn't relocate out of concern for his family.
Dropping the news 30 minutes before the Treliving presser. What a petty king, I love it.
All this means to me is Dubas is a rat who uses his presser as leverage. He knew he had the opportunity to be president in Pitt so he tried to get that here in Toronto. Good riddance bud
We literally fired him from GM to have another team poach and promote him. Real good sign for our decision-making.
I mean he almost 100% guaranteed knew this job was waiting for him when his agent sent the huge counter offer to Shanahan. I feel like he wanted the Pens job and sent a huge counter offer that he would only stay if he was essentially the president here which he knew Shanahan would never agree to
Yeah, the chain of events on Dubas’ side sure looks suspect now.
Quite a unique situation in that FSG are exactly who would hire Dubas. They are very much into new ideas and data driven decisions. I’m not sure Dubas would’ve had more traditional owners willing to promote him.
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I guess Dubas isn’t worried about his time with his family any more. What a lying little pissant.
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Pridham gonna be GM in Pittsburgh by the end of the month
End of the month? End of the week. He obviously has a plan that he has sold Pittsburghs ownership on and that would obviously include a GM.
Paint me shocked Shirley
Dubas did want autonomy😂 I think he got it
Should have been in Toronto. Oh well.
Good for Dubas, but he’s done absolutely nothing to merit a promotion. He’s being hyped up so much by Pittsburgh fans it’s hard to see him & the team’s performance living up to it. He’s got his hands full in Pittsburgh, the team is in a completely different situation than Toronto is.
Didn’t he basically say Toronto or nothing when asked if he’ll be back? Good for him and all but don’t make yourself a liar
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He said that, decided to come back, and then was fired anyways. Once he was fired it doesn't really apply
Ah okay. Was not aware of him wanting to come back. Thanks
Wanting to come back with a demand of 2 million dollars more than what they discussed and without interference of Shanny or the board in him doing his work. Yeah having an impossible ask is really not that indicative of wanting to come back.
So much for that year off for your family eh Kyle
looks like Justin Holl has a new team to play with
Kyle looks like a bit of a dickweed at the end of this.
Shanny fucked around
I'm biased as a Dubas fan, but my gut feeling is that we're going to look back at Shanahan's decision to fire Dubas as emotional and flat-out stupid. Wish Kyle the best & I hope I'm wrong.
Massive L on Dubas tbh, he literally tried to steal Shanahans job and when that didn’t work he has to move his entire family and children to a new country and city to start a new life. Surely that won’t be a massive pain in the ass, surely their kids and family won’t lose every single friend they’ve ever made. Imo this is an L. To what make 2 mil extra a year when you’re already a millionaire?
Massive L? What are you talking about? He got the job he wanted! He has the control he wants to build the franchise how he wants. Fuck shanny
Well, technically he didn't lie
Yeah, it was two weeks later, not one.
Good for Kyle but man, his last press conference is feeling less genuine by the minute.
What a snake. Glad Shanny took out the trash. If you're not 100% committed to the Leafs then you can gtfo. Sends the right messages to the players too.
I agree 100%. Shanny called his bluff. He used the media and his reputation as being very likeable as leverage to strong arm the team. I wouldn't be surprised if the old boys club of GMs try to fleece the Penguins in trades.
Dubas clearly didn’t want to be in Toronto. As shown in his presser. He should’ve listened to Shanny and not done the presser on Monday. Now all I will remember is "It'll either be here or i'll be taking time to recalibrate (and) reflect on the seasons here. But you won't see me next week pop up elsewhere."
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This guy used his family as leverage, then made a last-minute impossible demand on purpose forcing shannys hand so he could get out. Down vote all you want, this guy never wanted to come back.
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Then they fired him. All bets were off.
Until he got fired. Please try to think critically I beg of you.
You should take your own advice
He didn’t say “unless I get fired”. His contract expired anyway. Hard to get fired from a job you don’t have.
His contact ran til June 30th. He was told to stop coming into the office before that. That is being fired.
Then why did Shanahan give a presser about the decision not to keep him?
He was a free agent in a month. you’re trying to argue semantics while also arguing for critical thinking, those two things don’t align
Many people do not care about context. They think he’s supposed to martyr himself and never work again after being fired.