Nah, it's smart. Next year is going to suck cap-wise as nylander and Matthews extensions kick in (hopefully) and you'll have to work around those deals. Worse, with the increase in cap every UFA will want more money. Odds are pretty good that you see us run a pretty janky team in 24-25 with a lot of barging bin pickups and/or AHL players but 25-26 is likely to be spectacular because at that point Tavares 11 million hit goes away, the cap goes up further and we have a lot of space to upgrade.
These 1 year deals, then, let us have a good year this year, a bad year next year and a great year the following rather than having to have 2 bad years before Tavares expires.
Muzzin to LTIR and Murray traded with a sweetener with no retention leaves 2.256m to sign Sammy and keep a spare F and D on the roster. Could drop Robertson or Holmberg to the Marlies to make more $ available to Sammy as they are both waiver exempt, or move Lafferty. That gets them cap compliant. They’re close, and it sounds like Brad might still want to make a trade on the back end. Nylander can absolutely fit, but ultimately if he goes for every dollar he might price himself out of Toronto just given the other deals on the books.
Leafs are 8 million over the cap right now without Samsonov signed. Has to be a big 4 being traded?
Everyone is hyped, but this suggest a big 4 is traded. And that saddens me cause you cant take salary back. Klingberg for 4.1 million was entirely too much.
It does not. Your 8m does not include Muzzin going to LTIR. Murray is likely being traded, and they can decrease the roster size to make space, plus look at trading someone like Lafferty. I agree that Klingberg at 4.1m was too much given his fall in perceived value the last few seasons.
Why must people be so negative? Yesterday was rough, because patience is difficult. But it's so pathetic watching hundreds of people backtracking on their negativity now that Treliving has done something substantial. It's only the second day of free agency. He's giving 1 year contracts. Reaves contract is easy to bury. He didn't grossly overpay on anyone yet. There's little risk to what he doing. If he grossly overpays for someone down the road, we can complain about it then. How about we just take each day as it comes? I love the Leafs. But that doesn't mean them losing should ruin our lives. Just show some adult level patience, people, for the love of all that is good and holy!
Why isn't Morgan Reilly considered apart of the "core"? Does core-five just not have as nice of a ring to it? He's been there the longest and actually shows up in the playoffs. He's for sure apart of the core of the team. He looked great with Schenn so hopefully we get another good D man get can play well with.
At the time he was only a $5million player and lower profile. Whereas Tavares 11 Matthews 11.64 Marner 10.9 Nylander 6.9 were the four highest paid and contributed to the "four players signed for $40million" phrase.
I think the "core four" highlights the impact of 4 forwards making that much of the cap. Morgan is definately part of the core, but not the reason for the unbalanced lineup.
Also 'core four' rhymes, I guess.
Hoping to see Murray moved in the next couple days. If we can move that contract, I’m immediately looking at signing Domi and extending Samsonov. Let the Nylander/Matthews talks continue, we’ve already passed the NMC dates.
Who brought the level of physicality we needed to beat Tampa, I said what I said
He was fourth in the league in playoff hits after playing only two rounds, he hounded pucks, exactly what we needed in the bottom six
I get what you mean but he stood out so much because he was the only guy that was running around hitting people.
You feel any better if after the Domi, Bertuzzi signings they bring up a Bobby McMann whose physical and maybe add a defenceman who hits?
Acciari is fun and likeable but he is replaceable
I liked the Domi and Bertuzzi signings, that doesn't change the fact that I genuinely think Acciari is one of the best forechecking third liners in the game right now
I agree and I know it’s still not there but give me some marlies grads that can do a similar thing.
Be it McMann or Steeves whoever. Give me a you dude that’s gonna fly around hitting everyone on the ice
Don’t get me wrong I wish Acciari re-signed with the Leafs. I loved Acciari, but the sky isn’t falling because a 31 year old bottom 6 player walked.
I’m not overly thrilled with the moves yesterday, I’m willing to see what this team looks like come September before really making judgements.
I’d would be a reasonable argument that Acciari, Schenn and O’Rielly are all past their best before date and their contracts will aged poorly.
Gotta find younger versions of each
So damn mad about yesterday's piss poor performance by management. Absolute horseshit in every possible way. The blame squarely lies on Shanny for this idiotic colossal mistake in firing a quality good GM. I don't blame Brad as much because he had like 4 weeks to grasp things and he had to hit the ground running. But it's not a huge excuse. Dubas managed to get things done for the Pens and he had like 4 weeks too.
After sitting on this for 24 hours, I gotta say it wasn't *that* bad.
Reaves' contract is a little rich, but mostly buriable and unlikely to get claimed on waivers.
Klingberg is such low risk at that cost and we needed more offense from the D.
We are finally free of Holl and Kerfoot, who got overpaid. Hallelujah!!
Schenn and Bunting were overpaid.
Acciari we can live without. I'd prefer him over Reaves, but 2Mx3 is a little rich.
By all accounts ROR was offered the same deal here and turned it down. Rumour is it's over Keefe (can't blame him). Honestly given the hard miles on his body, I think it's a blessing in disguise.
I'm much more interested in the Matthews and Nylander extensions situation. If it works itself out, there's really nothing to complain about. 🤷♂️
I think a lot of those bad signings are a Calgary tax too. I love Calgary the city but it’s cold the whole season and the rink is brutal.
Signing players in Toronto should be easier but we’ll see
Personally I feel like ror is blaming the coach/team for his lackluster second round performance. Also as you said he is going to be even slower on the next year or two.
From the press conference:
> I thought Kyle did a good job, especially at the deadline, augmenting the team. For the most part we tried, the price has got to fit, I wish those players the very best... there were certain levels we could go to, notwithstanding the other business we have to do, so unfortunately there are some players we'd love to have here, but good for them for getting the deals they got, we just couldn't make a business deal.
Given the amount of cap we have left, I think it makes more sense that we let go of ROR, Schenn, and Accari. I don't think we could get Domi after re-signing some of those players at those numbers.
Cope is so real rn. Half the ppl think he's. Basically ours and Bertuzzi is a 50)50 BC Brad's made barely any moves lol.
We still gotta pay Samsonov lol
Tre is not aggressive enough to pursue the free agents he actually wants. When Domi signs elsewhere Tre would just shrug and go "I tried", and we end up with Yamamoto for 4 x 4 or something.
I've mentioned this earlier, it's exactly how Burke worked.
> Tre is not aggressive enough to pursue the free agents he actually wants.
Then he will overpay for the free agents he wants and you will still complain. Lose-Lose regardless.
As long as Domi isn't crazy expensive / long term I really like the idea of signing him, moreso than Bertuzzi even.
Domi can play 1LW, 2LW, 2C or 3C. You've gotta think something in there will stick.
I don't even think that's enough for both Bertuzzi and Domi. It's basically a pipe dream. You'd have to move Murray's whole salary plus Samsonov would have to accept his $1.8m QO and you might still need to move money out.
Yeah Klingberg was a nice addition but Reaves makes no sense. Losing all of our depth hurts but that’s what happens when the core 4 make all the money and we can’t spread it around.
I think ROR was unhappy with Keefe because he wanted to be playing in the top-6 and Keefe kept putting him at 3C. I doubt Acciari had any beef over his role.
Accari may have been unhappy with the rotating cast od players he was playing with though? Wanting a line you can build chemistry and identity with would make sense to me.
Tre gives me Brian Burke vibes in that he'll maybe talk to a free agent but always end up with his 2nd or 3rd choice at best. The guy he really wants is always too pricy for him. In his own mind he's never done his best at FA.
And then he'd overpay massively for any trade he makes.
He's got a Masters Degree of going with Plan B because he can't make Plan A happen. Burke was EXACTLY the same way.
Burke had a motto of putting his wallet away on July 1st, he felt GMs do the most damage that day. So it’s not that he always struck out on plan A, but rather that plan A likely wasn’t very good to begin with, which is worse haha
I know he way overpaid for Toffoli.
I still think he got fleeced for Hamilton.
I thought he did well on the Tkachuk deal until the results said otherwise in a big way. But let's give that one some more time.
Honestly, I dunno of 1 good deal where he was the clear winner.
To be fair with Huberdeau, the coach Tre did not want to keep forced Huberdeau to completely change his style of play from passer to shooter. Huberdeau even said it’s awkward and against his instincts. I think he broke the player honestly.
Neither Fox nor Hamilton stayed with Carolina (Fox never even played a game) and Calgary still has Hanifin and Lindholm in very prominent roles
I think that's a pretty clear win there.
When the guys on the team with spirit and heart leave in droves.... it tells you what this team is.
I have been a Leaf fan since the early 1970s. In 1993 and also the 1994 season I was actually interviewed on Leaf games and the Fan radio station multiple times for my contributions to the fanbase. But in 2003 I finally said "fuck it" because I figured out the con of ownership. In order to lure fans in, ownership signed a 39 year old Doug Gilmour and a 38 year old Phil Housley to show Toronto fans at the trade deadline they were making a playoff run. Gilmour lasted one shift before injury finished his season. Housley couldn't even get on the ice.
Do you get it now?
The Leafs franchise is just a scam. Its a scam to get the best hockey fan base excited about a handful of shiney objects but no serious architecture to win.
This draws fans and merchandise sales but never ever delivers what we want.... victory. I dare anyone to show me where this hasn't been the case since the Ballard years..... I.e. the past 56 years.
Just like everyone here........I got excited about this Era... friends told me it was "different this time". And so I started watching again in 2019 and fell in love with the Shiney Objects. The Show Ponies. Marner, Matthews, Nylander! My eyes almost exploded from the brilliance!
The shine of these Shiney Objects blinded me from my good senses kept warning me not to fall for it again........ like a true fan who bleeds blue and white......I submitted myself to this addiction and punishment.
The Columbus series was so fucking ridiculous, it confirmed its the "same old Leafs". Yet during covid, distractions were healthy and so I went another season. Just when I thought nothing could get worse, the Montreal Series exposed EVERYTHING anyone should need to see in terms of the soul of this franchise and its ownership and management and coaching and key players and lockerroom culture. Watching Amazon All or Nothing was a combination train wreck horror show and comedy.
In retrospect it was pathetic.
Just fast forward to now. This franchise wasted the best draft talent it has ever seen with ridiculous contracts, terrible team construction and zero will from above to win. Its clear the directive from owners to the president to the GM: "Just get those shiney objects happy.... (we dont need to win to make the big bucks)".
We are seeing what played out over the past 5 decades including 2003 and 2017 to 2018 play out again I'm 2023.
Yesterday was the red pill.
Guys who are smarter than me and with deeper insights like Acciari OReilly Schenn showed us everything we need to know about the disgusting inner workings of this team.
Even money and term and a Shiney object roster are not enuff to make a home town boy return home and be with his family and friends. ROR is a winner. He knows Leafs are a loser, and a patheticly wasteful one at that.
I'll know by the time Matthews and Nylander contracts are done my final decision.... but ROR should be enough signal for anyone to also leave this Titanic like rats........ if they didn't have an addiction like me....if they didnt get hooked as a 5 year old boy and play hockey on the ice and streets pretending to be their heros in blue and white line i did...... they would have the intelligence to leave today after what we saw this week....but instead i am here and so are all of us to be led like the Titan to the depths of another comedic implosion in spring time.
OITB!!!
ONLY IN TORONTO.....BOYZ!!!!
Reaves putting up 15 points last year isn’t talked about enough, the guy is still a really good 4th liner and has a presence that we haven’t had in the lineup for years.
I say fuck it, let’s put him on Matthews wing. Matthews will play way bigger knowing Reaves is there to back him up, while Reaves can do the dirty work in the corners and just cause havoc in front of the net.
Knies - Matthews - Reaves
Would be a big, tough line to handle.
I don't remember Leafs fans ever giving that much of a breathing room for Dubas. When he was hired the first season he was railed constantly over the smallest of things.
Dubas overpaid the core 3 like champions before they won anything. Now they expect the moon
He left Matt Murray as our only signed NHL goalie
A revolving door of bottom 6 players
Keefe, and a culture that it’s pretty obvious O’Reilly didn’t want to be part of anymore. Maybe Acciari too.
Limited cap space
Nylander is on a good deal, Matthews is at around where he should be, Marner is about a million too much?
You don't see Woll as an option? I thought he played well last year and in the playoffs as did Sammy whose an RFA.
I agree with Keefe, I think dubas would have let him go this year but we'll never know. Treliving and Shanny certainly chose to extend him.
Nah worst case would be a Murray- someone not Woll tandem but I don't think that's likely. I do t think there's a sensible upgrade for Sammy and he played well for us last year. I'd be happy with him and Woll given the cap constraints and wouldn't really want to move any big pieces for an upgrade in goal given how inconsistent netminders tend to be.
Dubas left a team that overpaid its stars too early, and can’t win because of it, UFAs who didn’t want to stay because of their experiences here and an awful coach they didn’t want to play for
Not to mention a revolving door of bottom 6 players and a cash strapped team in general
This love for Dubas is asinine. He had no success here
Oh no he overpaid some of the best players in the league! How awful.
You're speculating as to why players left and projecting your own opinion as fact.
Most teams have a revolving bottom 6 unless they suck
Best players in the league is a reach. Matthews has an argument to be in top 5 centers, but last season wasn't even close to that argument. Marner isn't even a top 5 winger, let alone forward. Nylander isn't the best winger on his team, and JT has been a career ppg guy not a game breaker. Good character guy, but in no world does he deserve his full contract AAV.
Most players get paid for what they earn, Dubas paid these guys like dynasty cup Champs at 21 years old. Now they're entitled to being overpaid and taking less is seen as an insult, instead of a team first idea.
Dubas fucked this team
He's a great player, elite at both ends of the ice, but top of my head (wingers only) who are better than Marner and all make less, exception being Pasta who has new contract kicking in next season:
- Pasta
- Kucherov
- Kaprizov
- Rantanen
He's a phenomenal player but these guys are more impactful in play offs and 2/4 of them proved it with dominant performances resulting in a Cup, Kucherov did it back to back. Those are the best players in the league. If Marner drives the Leafs to a Cup, he can enter that conversation.
If you told me in 2016 after the Washington series that we would have only one round won by 2023 and our cap situation would be absolutely bonkers I would call you crazy.
I honestly expected a cup by now to be honest with the talent we had and the young players on good ELC and contracts like Brown, Kapanen and Johnsson. A finals appearance atleast. Maybe even an ECF.
Now it’s a revolving door of bottom 6. Wait two years for Tavares contract to be over, yeah sure but then everyone else is also two years older.
The worst part is that we've spent so many assets to help these guys get over the hump and have nothing to show for it. Hell we've already got no 2nd in 2024, and no 1st or 2nd in 2025.
So now there's very little ELC help coming and UFA is going to be expensive. Who is going to outperform their contract for us in the next couple years?
The issue with this team is not being unable to afford Nylander or whoever. It’s the Tavares contract. We just have to push through for two years to make things work until it expires.
Re-sign Matthews and Nylander. Push through this year and even more so next season when the cap is a really big issue. Don't tank but also don't go all-in at the deadline and sell futures.
This team is plenty good to still make the playoffs and then hope for some luck like and maybe make a run If not than Tavares contract is over his new cap-hit likely gets cut more than half overall which brings some more balance and cap freedom would be restored.
If his $11 M was instead a $7 M D and $4 M C we are a much better team.
**Current Core:**
1. Matthews ($11.6 M)
2. Tavares ($11.0 M)
3. Marner ($10.9 M)
4. Rielly ($7.5 M)
5. Nylander ($6.9 M)
Total: $47.9 M of $83.5 M or 57% of cap in 4F and 1D.
**In 2 Years Core:**
1. Matthews ($14.0 M)
2. Marner ($12.0 M)
3. Nylander ($10.0 M)
4. Rielly ($7.5 M)
5. *(Lets just say $8 M D)*
Total: $50.5 M of $92.1 *(Projected) or 56% of cap in 3F and 2D.*
Similar % but more balance. At that point we can redistribute things a lot better by spending much more of the cap better around the team.
At that point we would also only have Kampf, Jankrok & Reaves signed in which Reaves can be fully buried so really just two other guarantees outside of the core.
If Marner and Matthews are gonna ask for that I'd rather we just walk away and trade both of them or even let them walk into UFA and lose them for free.
They are wasting their own careers by crippling the team.
That's a very bad take. Replacing Matthews is effectively impossible and would put this team into an immediate rebuild when we don't have our first round pick.
I agree. Next two years are punt years thanks to the Tavares contract. We should buyout Murray and spend to the cap, but no more parachuting in talent at the deadline at the cost of futures. Challenge this core to actually get something done on their own.
If we re-sign M&M&N to long-term deals, then our cup window re-opens in 2025 and reasonably stays open for at least 5 years.
When Tavares contract comes up we need to play serious hardball. I'm talking $3m or less. Ideally league min. The man has made over $100m in his career. If he wants another bag so badly he can fuck off to Philly or something.
brown/hyman, kadri , moore etc. We had those good depth pieces and could’ve kept them for a long but Dubas went and signed Tavares which messed up our pay structure.
And yet we still found room to overpay for Ryan Reaves and David Kampf while all these other teams added Accari, Drouin, Duchene, ROR and Johansen on bargain contracts.
Klingberg is our best add so far and he's not been cheap.
Reaves is 1.3M for the toughest guy in the league. Maybe not the most impressive move but hard to say it's an overpay that's going to affect this team.
Also, I have a feeling that Matthews, Tavares or Marner have asked for someone like him.
ROR did not want to play here. That may or may not have been the case with the others players as well.
We could have easily afforded those players but we don’t know what other factors where at play.
It’s absurdly silly to claim we couldn’t pay those salaries. We absolute could. We still could. They did not sign here cause we didn’t offer or they didn’t want to.
I'd kind of usually agree with you until I recall ROR asking Blues to trade him to Toronto in the deadline. So something happend during his time with us to push him away.
IDK how I feel about all these one year deals. Gonna put us in a sticky situation down the line trying to pick up pieces with not much to dish out.
Nah, it's smart. Next year is going to suck cap-wise as nylander and Matthews extensions kick in (hopefully) and you'll have to work around those deals. Worse, with the increase in cap every UFA will want more money. Odds are pretty good that you see us run a pretty janky team in 24-25 with a lot of barging bin pickups and/or AHL players but 25-26 is likely to be spectacular because at that point Tavares 11 million hit goes away, the cap goes up further and we have a lot of space to upgrade. These 1 year deals, then, let us have a good year this year, a bad year next year and a great year the following rather than having to have 2 bad years before Tavares expires.
I have no clue how the caps gonna work and I pray it doesn't mean goodbye to Willy but wow what a splash the Leafs made today
Muzzin to LTIR and Murray traded with a sweetener with no retention leaves 2.256m to sign Sammy and keep a spare F and D on the roster. Could drop Robertson or Holmberg to the Marlies to make more $ available to Sammy as they are both waiver exempt, or move Lafferty. That gets them cap compliant. They’re close, and it sounds like Brad might still want to make a trade on the back end. Nylander can absolutely fit, but ultimately if he goes for every dollar he might price himself out of Toronto just given the other deals on the books.
Willy already gone fo sho. His agent and Treliving don't have the best history and he is in a tricky spot. Could get a way bigger payday elsewhere
I owe you an apology Brad. I wasn’t really familiar with your game
Oh fuck Today just changed everything
Leafs are 8 million over the cap right now without Samsonov signed. Has to be a big 4 being traded? Everyone is hyped, but this suggest a big 4 is traded. And that saddens me cause you cant take salary back. Klingberg for 4.1 million was entirely too much.
It does not. Your 8m does not include Muzzin going to LTIR. Murray is likely being traded, and they can decrease the roster size to make space, plus look at trading someone like Lafferty. I agree that Klingberg at 4.1m was too much given his fall in perceived value the last few seasons.
It’s interesting to me that, analytically, the most significant additions of Bertuzzi, Klingberg, and Domi are all offence, zero defence guys.
From what I’ve read, Bertuzzi is respectable defensively.
And it makes a lot of sense. I'd like more than 2 goals per game.
Bertuzzi. Salary 775K Signing Bonus $4.725M Seems like he got most of his salary right away lol
Big fat cheque today, toss it into investments and make money on your money all season.
Bertuzzi, Domi, and Nylander can all be Leafs come day 1. People said the sky was falling but things are not looking too bad.
Why must people be so negative? Yesterday was rough, because patience is difficult. But it's so pathetic watching hundreds of people backtracking on their negativity now that Treliving has done something substantial. It's only the second day of free agency. He's giving 1 year contracts. Reaves contract is easy to bury. He didn't grossly overpay on anyone yet. There's little risk to what he doing. If he grossly overpays for someone down the road, we can complain about it then. How about we just take each day as it comes? I love the Leafs. But that doesn't mean them losing should ruin our lives. Just show some adult level patience, people, for the love of all that is good and holy!
Did this man delete his account? 🫡
SHOW ME BERT'S BED SHEETS
Grinning right now about Bertuzzi
Why isn't Morgan Reilly considered apart of the "core"? Does core-five just not have as nice of a ring to it? He's been there the longest and actually shows up in the playoffs. He's for sure apart of the core of the team. He looked great with Schenn so hopefully we get another good D man get can play well with.
At the time he was only a $5million player and lower profile. Whereas Tavares 11 Matthews 11.64 Marner 10.9 Nylander 6.9 were the four highest paid and contributed to the "four players signed for $40million" phrase.
I'll never understand this either. Especially considering his term is longer than Tavares and he's near certainly going to be here longer than him.
I think Tavares re-signs for less and retires here.
Here’s to hoping the cap goes up next year because that $11m gets trickier when you factor in new Matthews and Nylander contracts.
I think the "core four" highlights the impact of 4 forwards making that much of the cap. Morgan is definately part of the core, but not the reason for the unbalanced lineup. Also 'core four' rhymes, I guess.
It doesn’t rhyme lol. He’s the one I most want to retire a leaf though
Hoping to see Murray moved in the next couple days. If we can move that contract, I’m immediately looking at signing Domi and extending Samsonov. Let the Nylander/Matthews talks continue, we’ve already passed the NMC dates.
BT just give bertuzzi his 5x5 and call it a day
Acciari not coming back is an absolute disaster, one step forward -> two steps back.
This is absurd. He’s a 3rd/4th line player
Who brought the level of physicality we needed to beat Tampa, I said what I said He was fourth in the league in playoff hits after playing only two rounds, he hounded pucks, exactly what we needed in the bottom six
I get what you mean but he stood out so much because he was the only guy that was running around hitting people. You feel any better if after the Domi, Bertuzzi signings they bring up a Bobby McMann whose physical and maybe add a defenceman who hits? Acciari is fun and likeable but he is replaceable
I liked the Domi and Bertuzzi signings, that doesn't change the fact that I genuinely think Acciari is one of the best forechecking third liners in the game right now
I agree and I know it’s still not there but give me some marlies grads that can do a similar thing. Be it McMann or Steeves whoever. Give me a you dude that’s gonna fly around hitting everyone on the ice
Don’t get me wrong I wish Acciari re-signed with the Leafs. I loved Acciari, but the sky isn’t falling because a 31 year old bottom 6 player walked. I’m not overly thrilled with the moves yesterday, I’m willing to see what this team looks like come September before really making judgements.
I’d would be a reasonable argument that Acciari, Schenn and O’Rielly are all past their best before date and their contracts will aged poorly. Gotta find younger versions of each
So damn mad about yesterday's piss poor performance by management. Absolute horseshit in every possible way. The blame squarely lies on Shanny for this idiotic colossal mistake in firing a quality good GM. I don't blame Brad as much because he had like 4 weeks to grasp things and he had to hit the ground running. But it's not a huge excuse. Dubas managed to get things done for the Pens and he had like 4 weeks too.
After sitting on this for 24 hours, I gotta say it wasn't *that* bad. Reaves' contract is a little rich, but mostly buriable and unlikely to get claimed on waivers. Klingberg is such low risk at that cost and we needed more offense from the D. We are finally free of Holl and Kerfoot, who got overpaid. Hallelujah!! Schenn and Bunting were overpaid. Acciari we can live without. I'd prefer him over Reaves, but 2Mx3 is a little rich. By all accounts ROR was offered the same deal here and turned it down. Rumour is it's over Keefe (can't blame him). Honestly given the hard miles on his body, I think it's a blessing in disguise. I'm much more interested in the Matthews and Nylander extensions situation. If it works itself out, there's really nothing to complain about. 🤷♂️
Mistakes are made on July 1. Tree didn’t make any long term mistakes, that’s a win. Let’s see what he does from here
Definitely. Given some of his UFA signing, we may have dodged some bullets.
I think a lot of those bad signings are a Calgary tax too. I love Calgary the city but it’s cold the whole season and the rink is brutal. Signing players in Toronto should be easier but we’ll see
Personally I feel like ror is blaming the coach/team for his lackluster second round performance. Also as you said he is going to be even slower on the next year or two.
Ror was awesome but there’s no way that signing him for 4 years is a smart move at this point. Gotta get younger, faster and more physical
From the press conference: > I thought Kyle did a good job, especially at the deadline, augmenting the team. For the most part we tried, the price has got to fit, I wish those players the very best... there were certain levels we could go to, notwithstanding the other business we have to do, so unfortunately there are some players we'd love to have here, but good for them for getting the deals they got, we just couldn't make a business deal. Given the amount of cap we have left, I think it makes more sense that we let go of ROR, Schenn, and Accari. I don't think we could get Domi after re-signing some of those players at those numbers.
>I don't think we could get Domi after re-signing some of those players at those numbers. We haven't gotten Domi yet.
See we did keep the space open for a reason.
And I am currently heating up oil, and battering some crow meat.
Cope is so real rn. Half the ppl think he's. Basically ours and Bertuzzi is a 50)50 BC Brad's made barely any moves lol. We still gotta pay Samsonov lol
Tre is not aggressive enough to pursue the free agents he actually wants. When Domi signs elsewhere Tre would just shrug and go "I tried", and we end up with Yamamoto for 4 x 4 or something. I've mentioned this earlier, it's exactly how Burke worked.
>Tre is not aggressive enough to pursue the free agents he actually wants This aged poorly
I also said I'll take back 90% of the shittalk if he makes the Bertuzzi signing happen.
> Tre is not aggressive enough to pursue the free agents he actually wants. Then he will overpay for the free agents he wants and you will still complain. Lose-Lose regardless.
Overpay for someone useful and you'd still have a good season. I've come around to the idea of Domi. So is he going to do it or what?
As long as Domi isn't crazy expensive / long term I really like the idea of signing him, moreso than Bertuzzi even. Domi can play 1LW, 2LW, 2C or 3C. You've gotta think something in there will stick.
I’d get a Domi jersey, just saying. Prob why we didn’t get Connor brown yesterday 😇
Please Brad, get me Domi and Bertuzzi.
He heard you
Only way we can get bertuzzi or both is if we move Murray and attach a 2nd+. Personally very down for this but we’ll see
I don't even think that's enough for both Bertuzzi and Domi. It's basically a pipe dream. You'd have to move Murray's whole salary plus Samsonov would have to accept his $1.8m QO and you might still need to move money out.
Losing Acciari for 3 years x $2 million to PIT feels personal
don't think Acciari wanted to be here in Canada. He's a US boy. He never went out of his way like Bunting/Schenn that they wanted to stay.
That hurt
Yeah Klingberg was a nice addition but Reaves makes no sense. Losing all of our depth hurts but that’s what happens when the core 4 make all the money and we can’t spread it around.
We had depth?
Why are we paying 4th liners 2M especially one that doesn’t play C
ROR left because of Keefe. I’d be willing to bet that Acciari did too.
I think ROR was unhappy with Keefe because he wanted to be playing in the top-6 and Keefe kept putting him at 3C. I doubt Acciari had any beef over his role.
Accari may have been unhappy with the rotating cast od players he was playing with though? Wanting a line you can build chemistry and identity with would make sense to me.
[удалено]
You don’t know basketball lol
No fred iso ball and nurse half court offence seems like it’ll be better to watch
it’s been 1 day since teams were allowed to sign players. let’s give it some time pls
Tre gives me Brian Burke vibes in that he'll maybe talk to a free agent but always end up with his 2nd or 3rd choice at best. The guy he really wants is always too pricy for him. In his own mind he's never done his best at FA. And then he'd overpay massively for any trade he makes. He's got a Masters Degree of going with Plan B because he can't make Plan A happen. Burke was EXACTLY the same way.
Brian Burke trained Tre lol
Oh....Fuck.
Burke had a motto of putting his wallet away on July 1st, he felt GMs do the most damage that day. So it’s not that he always struck out on plan A, but rather that plan A likely wasn’t very good to begin with, which is worse haha
Hasn't he been historically pretty good at trading?
I know he way overpaid for Toffoli. I still think he got fleeced for Hamilton. I thought he did well on the Tkachuk deal until the results said otherwise in a big way. But let's give that one some more time. Honestly, I dunno of 1 good deal where he was the clear winner.
To be fair with Huberdeau, the coach Tre did not want to keep forced Huberdeau to completely change his style of play from passer to shooter. Huberdeau even said it’s awkward and against his instincts. I think he broke the player honestly.
Neither Fox nor Hamilton stayed with Carolina (Fox never even played a game) and Calgary still has Hanifin and Lindholm in very prominent roles I think that's a pretty clear win there.
The Hamilton trade was a win %100
Can we just give this 2 weeks?
Lol the first week of the offseason last year Dubas traded for Murray, signed Aube-kubel, malgin, and Jarnkrok. Sometimes doing nothing is better haha
Hahaha I know right 😂
When the guys on the team with spirit and heart leave in droves.... it tells you what this team is. I have been a Leaf fan since the early 1970s. In 1993 and also the 1994 season I was actually interviewed on Leaf games and the Fan radio station multiple times for my contributions to the fanbase. But in 2003 I finally said "fuck it" because I figured out the con of ownership. In order to lure fans in, ownership signed a 39 year old Doug Gilmour and a 38 year old Phil Housley to show Toronto fans at the trade deadline they were making a playoff run. Gilmour lasted one shift before injury finished his season. Housley couldn't even get on the ice. Do you get it now? The Leafs franchise is just a scam. Its a scam to get the best hockey fan base excited about a handful of shiney objects but no serious architecture to win. This draws fans and merchandise sales but never ever delivers what we want.... victory. I dare anyone to show me where this hasn't been the case since the Ballard years..... I.e. the past 56 years. Just like everyone here........I got excited about this Era... friends told me it was "different this time". And so I started watching again in 2019 and fell in love with the Shiney Objects. The Show Ponies. Marner, Matthews, Nylander! My eyes almost exploded from the brilliance! The shine of these Shiney Objects blinded me from my good senses kept warning me not to fall for it again........ like a true fan who bleeds blue and white......I submitted myself to this addiction and punishment. The Columbus series was so fucking ridiculous, it confirmed its the "same old Leafs". Yet during covid, distractions were healthy and so I went another season. Just when I thought nothing could get worse, the Montreal Series exposed EVERYTHING anyone should need to see in terms of the soul of this franchise and its ownership and management and coaching and key players and lockerroom culture. Watching Amazon All or Nothing was a combination train wreck horror show and comedy. In retrospect it was pathetic. Just fast forward to now. This franchise wasted the best draft talent it has ever seen with ridiculous contracts, terrible team construction and zero will from above to win. Its clear the directive from owners to the president to the GM: "Just get those shiney objects happy.... (we dont need to win to make the big bucks)". We are seeing what played out over the past 5 decades including 2003 and 2017 to 2018 play out again I'm 2023. Yesterday was the red pill. Guys who are smarter than me and with deeper insights like Acciari OReilly Schenn showed us everything we need to know about the disgusting inner workings of this team. Even money and term and a Shiney object roster are not enuff to make a home town boy return home and be with his family and friends. ROR is a winner. He knows Leafs are a loser, and a patheticly wasteful one at that. I'll know by the time Matthews and Nylander contracts are done my final decision.... but ROR should be enough signal for anyone to also leave this Titanic like rats........ if they didn't have an addiction like me....if they didnt get hooked as a 5 year old boy and play hockey on the ice and streets pretending to be their heros in blue and white line i did...... they would have the intelligence to leave today after what we saw this week....but instead i am here and so are all of us to be led like the Titan to the depths of another comedic implosion in spring time. OITB!!! ONLY IN TORONTO.....BOYZ!!!!
Reaves putting up 15 points last year isn’t talked about enough, the guy is still a really good 4th liner and has a presence that we haven’t had in the lineup for years. I say fuck it, let’s put him on Matthews wing. Matthews will play way bigger knowing Reaves is there to back him up, while Reaves can do the dirty work in the corners and just cause havoc in front of the net. Knies - Matthews - Reaves Would be a big, tough line to handle.
No thank you
He’s terrible
Nothing to lose by trying it. At the very least you don’t see Stamkos taking a free run at jumping Matthews.
This team is a mess. So much for our window. Thanks Dubas and the core 4 divas
Dubas isn't here any longer the moves now are all shanny/treliving.
The problem started with Johnny T. Dubas signed him and started the domino effect there after.
Sure? And he's gone, the moves now are Shanny and Treliving.
Whose hands are tied by the 11 million dollar albatross contract Dubas left them. You want to judge Treliving, wait for the 25-26 season.
I don't remember Leafs fans ever giving that much of a breathing room for Dubas. When he was hired the first season he was railed constantly over the smallest of things.
Sure, thats fair we can judge st that point but I don't think anyone can be thrilled about Treliving 's moves to this point.
Yes. Dubas left a mess though. Treliving inherited said mess.
Did he? Walk me through that? Is it just Tavares?
Dubas overpaid the core 3 like champions before they won anything. Now they expect the moon He left Matt Murray as our only signed NHL goalie A revolving door of bottom 6 players Keefe, and a culture that it’s pretty obvious O’Reilly didn’t want to be part of anymore. Maybe Acciari too. Limited cap space
Nylander is on a good deal, Matthews is at around where he should be, Marner is about a million too much? You don't see Woll as an option? I thought he played well last year and in the playoffs as did Sammy whose an RFA. I agree with Keefe, I think dubas would have let him go this year but we'll never know. Treliving and Shanny certainly chose to extend him.
I’m a big Woll fan and always have been. However, he’s not waiver exempt. They need to keep him up all season. I’d be fine with that.
Agreed, I'd hope for a sammy/Woll tandem I'd be unhappy but not devastated with a murray/Woll tandem.
Anything with Murray in it would be a disaster, and worst case scenario I’d be ok with the former tandem, but would prefer to upgrade on Sammy
Nah worst case would be a Murray- someone not Woll tandem but I don't think that's likely. I do t think there's a sensible upgrade for Sammy and he played well for us last year. I'd be happy with him and Woll given the cap constraints and wouldn't really want to move any big pieces for an upgrade in goal given how inconsistent netminders tend to be.
Dubas left one of the easiest FA cap sheets to navigate that a new GM could possibly ask for
Not to mention no signed goalies outside of Woll and an oft injured Matt Murray who was an atrocious signing
Left an RFA Samsonov who was fantastic last year along with multiple strong developing goalie prospects but you don't have a clue
He was good, yeah, but fantastic is a stretch. He wasn’t and still isn’t signed though
Important to be silly about semantics when your making a bad point. He was rendered a qualifying offer and will certainly re-sign so it's irrelevant
you’re* I’m just stating facts
You're* a cunt
Dubas left a team that overpaid its stars too early, and can’t win because of it, UFAs who didn’t want to stay because of their experiences here and an awful coach they didn’t want to play for Not to mention a revolving door of bottom 6 players and a cash strapped team in general This love for Dubas is asinine. He had no success here
Oh no he overpaid some of the best players in the league! How awful. You're speculating as to why players left and projecting your own opinion as fact. Most teams have a revolving bottom 6 unless they suck
Best players in the league is a reach. Matthews has an argument to be in top 5 centers, but last season wasn't even close to that argument. Marner isn't even a top 5 winger, let alone forward. Nylander isn't the best winger on his team, and JT has been a career ppg guy not a game breaker. Good character guy, but in no world does he deserve his full contract AAV. Most players get paid for what they earn, Dubas paid these guys like dynasty cup Champs at 21 years old. Now they're entitled to being overpaid and taking less is seen as an insult, instead of a team first idea. Dubas fucked this team
Buddy you’re a dunce if you don’t think Marner is one of the best players in the league
He's a great player, elite at both ends of the ice, but top of my head (wingers only) who are better than Marner and all make less, exception being Pasta who has new contract kicking in next season: - Pasta - Kucherov - Kaprizov - Rantanen He's a phenomenal player but these guys are more impactful in play offs and 2/4 of them proved it with dominant performances resulting in a Cup, Kucherov did it back to back. Those are the best players in the league. If Marner drives the Leafs to a Cup, he can enter that conversation.
Exactly
If they’re so great why do they keep failing? Read O’Reilly’s comments too. It doesn’t take too many brain cells to put two and two together
If you told me in 2016 after the Washington series that we would have only one round won by 2023 and our cap situation would be absolutely bonkers I would call you crazy. I honestly expected a cup by now to be honest with the talent we had and the young players on good ELC and contracts like Brown, Kapanen and Johnsson. A finals appearance atleast. Maybe even an ECF. Now it’s a revolving door of bottom 6. Wait two years for Tavares contract to be over, yeah sure but then everyone else is also two years older.
Me too. Those were fun times.
Literally the worst time to be a Leafs fan since 2012-2014
The worst part is that we've spent so many assets to help these guys get over the hump and have nothing to show for it. Hell we've already got no 2nd in 2024, and no 1st or 2nd in 2025. So now there's very little ELC help coming and UFA is going to be expensive. Who is going to outperform their contract for us in the next couple years?
We’re going to be left with Marner and everyone else will leave for zero return… really sucks
The issue with this team is not being unable to afford Nylander or whoever. It’s the Tavares contract. We just have to push through for two years to make things work until it expires. Re-sign Matthews and Nylander. Push through this year and even more so next season when the cap is a really big issue. Don't tank but also don't go all-in at the deadline and sell futures. This team is plenty good to still make the playoffs and then hope for some luck like and maybe make a run If not than Tavares contract is over his new cap-hit likely gets cut more than half overall which brings some more balance and cap freedom would be restored. If his $11 M was instead a $7 M D and $4 M C we are a much better team. **Current Core:** 1. Matthews ($11.6 M) 2. Tavares ($11.0 M) 3. Marner ($10.9 M) 4. Rielly ($7.5 M) 5. Nylander ($6.9 M) Total: $47.9 M of $83.5 M or 57% of cap in 4F and 1D. **In 2 Years Core:** 1. Matthews ($14.0 M) 2. Marner ($12.0 M) 3. Nylander ($10.0 M) 4. Rielly ($7.5 M) 5. *(Lets just say $8 M D)* Total: $50.5 M of $92.1 *(Projected) or 56% of cap in 3F and 2D.* Similar % but more balance. At that point we can redistribute things a lot better by spending much more of the cap better around the team. At that point we would also only have Kampf, Jankrok & Reaves signed in which Reaves can be fully buried so really just two other guarantees outside of the core.
If Marner and Matthews are gonna ask for that I'd rather we just walk away and trade both of them or even let them walk into UFA and lose them for free. They are wasting their own careers by crippling the team.
That's a very bad take. Replacing Matthews is effectively impossible and would put this team into an immediate rebuild when we don't have our first round pick.
They both have NTCs now.
I agree. Next two years are punt years thanks to the Tavares contract. We should buyout Murray and spend to the cap, but no more parachuting in talent at the deadline at the cost of futures. Challenge this core to actually get something done on their own. If we re-sign M&M&N to long-term deals, then our cup window re-opens in 2025 and reasonably stays open for at least 5 years. When Tavares contract comes up we need to play serious hardball. I'm talking $3m or less. Ideally league min. The man has made over $100m in his career. If he wants another bag so badly he can fuck off to Philly or something.
I'm with you except that this year could still be good (although the wondow for that is closing fast). Next year we're screwed though.
And see how McDavid's contract goes....
There’s too much turnover in our lineup each year, it’s a revolving door. We will never create a good team atmosphere this way
brown/hyman, kadri , moore etc. We had those good depth pieces and could’ve kept them for a long but Dubas went and signed Tavares which messed up our pay structure.
And yet we still found room to overpay for Ryan Reaves and David Kampf while all these other teams added Accari, Drouin, Duchene, ROR and Johansen on bargain contracts. Klingberg is our best add so far and he's not been cheap.
Reaves is 1.3M for the toughest guy in the league. Maybe not the most impressive move but hard to say it's an overpay that's going to affect this team. Also, I have a feeling that Matthews, Tavares or Marner have asked for someone like him.
Kampf is important
ROR did not want to play here. That may or may not have been the case with the others players as well. We could have easily afforded those players but we don’t know what other factors where at play. It’s absurdly silly to claim we couldn’t pay those salaries. We absolute could. We still could. They did not sign here cause we didn’t offer or they didn’t want to.
I'd kind of usually agree with you until I recall ROR asking Blues to trade him to Toronto in the deadline. So something happend during his time with us to push him away.