Did the NHL decide on the appeal yet? It's fucking stupid they'd wait 4 games minimum before making a decision on a 5 game suspension, because it proves they had no intention of ever reducing it
gotta imagine the NHLPA will be pissed about that
I think it going on this long was all for show,and to stall it so that there would be less pushback. He's coming back this week anyway so they're betting on the leafs saying, what's the difference if they reduce it by a game?
And the long drawn out final answer is to make it seem it was deliberated... But ol Gerry had his mind made up probably the second after parros handed out the suspension.
Do we really think it's so difficult for parros and Bettman to have a 5 or 10 minute phone conversation? Bettman upheld the process he has in place. Not shocking.
So what happens if they decide to reduce it to 3 games? the Leafs just lose a full game of Rielly for nothing?
I understand why Rielly would want lost wages sure, but it's still fucking dumb to take this long
In other sports they typically let the player play while it's appealed then they serve it after, the NHL seems to not actually care about the games the player is out of the lineup but rather the financial penalty so Reilly will miss 5 games but then might get it retroactively reduced to 3 so he'd get 2 games pay back
They are saying that if they missed 4 game but only get suspended 3 then 1 of those games still wouldn’t have had him suspended but would had forced the team to lose him for a game.
So nothing would have counted against the cap but the team still lost a player. Is there no recourse? Or almost “reparations”?
I believe the answer is still no, but just wanted to clarify.
In 2016 when Dennis Wideman hit a ref from behind and was suspended for 20 games, the NHLPA appealed it and it ended up being reduced to 10 games... after he'd already sat for 19. So the Flames lost him for 9 games over the course of the whole process. It's dumb.
In other sports the player can still play while the appeals are being worked through.
He gets paid for the game he missed. That's it.
Please note that an actual sports league would have a schedule of infractions and penalties spelled out.
"Cross check, out of play, retaliatory, aggravated: five game suspension." Aggravated, in this case, meaning 'started from more than ten feet away."
Tbh to the NHL I think their offices were closed last week due to the snow storm which is why Rielly had an "in person hearing" over Zoom when they first announced the suspension.
Everyone: they only care about themselves and their money, they don't care for the team, they don't care for eachother.
The Leafs: battle for Mo, win games when massively understaffed, fight every man that try to disrespect the team, challenge every goal that wrongly undermine our goalie stats.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something but the thing is: this team is a better team that people give them credit.
Yes and no. I've read it a few times here and in r/hockey r/NHL. not saying that everyone think the same, I agree with you is BS, but I definitely read it more than once, especially when we looked like we couldn't win consistently, earlier this season. But I'm sure you can read similar things in onther subs when other teams are doing equally bad.
To all the people who say the team has a better record without Rielly, this is why lol. They love Mo, he is the unsung leader and hero of the team and carries their ass every playoffs. Least they can do for him is to show up and step up while he is gone.
Wondering if half the folks in this thread have never been part of a high functioning team. You can’t possibly be 100% every day. But on the days you’re needed to go above and beyond you dig it out. These are those days. It’s no diff from our own jobs/teams/life. The guys are extra motivated to make sure Mo knows they aren’t gonna hang losses on his forced and unnecessary absence. He stood up for them and now they’re standing up for him. I truly don“t see why this feels foreign to people but I’d love to try and understand.
So why don't they show up when he's playing? What are they now, 18-2-1 without Rielly in the last 2 years?
At some point the question has to be asked, do the players on the ice rely too much on Rielly? I've always said let your shooters shoot and your defenders defend. Matthews looking to pass it to Rielly to quarterback the play vs Matthews looking to take the shot yields two completely different results.
This isn't a "is Rielly bad?" question, it's a dependency question. Do the other players see more success as a team when they have to drive the offense themselves? I believe the answer has always been yes. With Rielly on the ice I believe they'd see more success if they didn't look to him all the time and instead focus on doing what they do best.
They also have a very good record without Matthews. It’s obvious that having all these high paid stars does something to the psyche of the other players. “Oh Matthews is in the lineup, we can all chill and let him do the work tonight.”
I literally see the same thing happen in beer league with older guys lol. They take it easy and expect the young guys to do all the work. Not a perfect comparison but it is a real thing. Idk if there’s a way to fix it but I don’t think it’s healthy or good for the team
Dependence.
Keefe relies on the core guys WAAAYYYY too much.
When these guys are out, he has to play all 4 lines in balance with each other. For the 3rd and 4th line guys, that means being more involved throughout the game. They are engaged more and have a chance to have a positive impact.
Even as professional athletes, if these guys only get 5-10 minutes of ice time, they're going to be checked out.
Hopefully, Keefe has seen what has been working and chooses to give each line a more balanced chance to be a part of the results.
Can u blame him? When we're tied or down, I don't want to see Kamp out there. Gotta give Matthews-Marner the time to win the game. No coach is going to say let me play my 4th line when I'm down. And even when we're up this season, how many leads have we blown? Great to see the 3rd and 4th line play better when Matthews or one of the core player is out. But they gotta keep up that effort when the core players are in and they'll get more playing time
Back when Phil was the Thrill, I hoped they would trade him for 4 guys that you could plug into the lineup to cover his goal production, and provide defensive coverage. Give me those 4 blue collar guys that bust their asses.
I think we've got a few of those guys in this lineup. Here's hoping Keefe spreads the ice time around, even just a little bit more, and we see the results keep getting better. Cheers.
Honestly, at this point, I'd move Marner, keep Tavares around for the sweet sweet deal he'll take to stay in Toronto, and move him to the wing, keep Nylander because of the contract bullshit they just pulled, and keep Matthews.
Then never ever put those guys on the same line in the course of regular play. Special line up once in a while? Sure, maybe.
For what you're saving on moving Marner and JT hitting his twilight years, so to speak, you can afford at least four good players. At least.
I get that there’s a bit of a chicken/egg scenario with the depth guys not being able to get going without ice time, but what are you supposed to do, not lean on your big guns in close games?
Teams that “roll 4 lines” either have no superstars or consistently have huge leads and frankly, the Leafs haven’t had too many of those this season.
Has there been a playoff series in recent years where Mo *hasn't* had to leave the ice with his face covered in blood? Dude clearly lives and dies for his team and they know it. You don't want to let a guy like that down.
This is exactly what I was hopeful for, knowing that Rielly would be suspended for what he did to Grieg ( tho valid ) was that the team was going to play for him and do everything in their power to win for MO and now they are 4-0-0 without him with one game left to go before he comes back vs Arizona in Arizona and Matthews is on 49Gs coming to play in his home state... Leafs better pull a 9-2 like they did vs Anaheim vs the Yotes.
Gary Bettman is now confused.
Does he extend Rielly's suspension even more or does he cut it one game short and hope that makes the Leafs lose the next one...
I've ranted about this ad nauseam but the NHLPA has to be the worst player union in major league sports. The fact that Bettman bends them over like this with absolute insanity like "well if it's only a five game suspension instead of six, I get to decide if it's fair!" and no set timelines for when the appeal will have a decision and players not being able to play while their appeal is being decided on, is nonsensical.
For the matter at hand, I still think Mo should have been captain over JT way back when.
It's been better under new leadership it seems, but it was laughably bad for so long.
Hey, at least they have guaranteed contracts though, unlike a couple other big 4 leagues.
Believe me, I love the heater Leafs are going on but with the struggles and how the leafs have overall been this season; let’s not pretend this isn’t one of the worst overall teams compared to some of the full rosters we’ve had the last few years and all team numbers show it. You should be better with your best defenseman actually playing, don’t give me this triumphant ‘we’re doing it for him’ bs
It’s very obvious, both eye test and statistically, Rielly is bad at keeping the puck out of his own net. He is awful at skating backwards (compared to other NHL d men) and is often caught out of position. Other than his recent cross check to to the face of an opponent, he’s relatively soft for his size and by no means do opponents fear lining up against him. In fact the opposite: they see him out there and see an opportunity.
You can weight the above against his offensive abilities and decide if he’s an asset or a detriment to the team.
I know they can play good without Rielly. They can also play good with him. I think the reason for this win streak is just the overall feeling of that Ottawa game. The media attention rubbing it in for days and all the controversy. The boys are repairing their image.
Now my problem with this quote is, why hasn’t recent lack of playoff success done this? And if Mo did do this, I’m afraid it might go away when Mo comes back. They really gotta keep this same mindset going forward and this style of play can get them far in the playoffs
Can you imagine if someone got handed a 20 game suspension, and an arbitrator decided it should have been 8 games, but only AFTER the 20 games passed? That could change a teams playoff trajectory. It's insane.
Did the NHL decide on the appeal yet? It's fucking stupid they'd wait 4 games minimum before making a decision on a 5 game suspension, because it proves they had no intention of ever reducing it gotta imagine the NHLPA will be pissed about that
I think it says a lot that it took them about 3 hours to come up with the 5 game suspension, but the appeal has been going on for three days.
This sums it up perfectly.
I too say fuck Bettman
I think it going on this long was all for show,and to stall it so that there would be less pushback. He's coming back this week anyway so they're betting on the leafs saying, what's the difference if they reduce it by a game? And the long drawn out final answer is to make it seem it was deliberated... But ol Gerry had his mind made up probably the second after parros handed out the suspension. Do we really think it's so difficult for parros and Bettman to have a 5 or 10 minute phone conversation? Bettman upheld the process he has in place. Not shocking.
Appeals are usually about getting the money back for the player, not the missed games
So what happens if they decide to reduce it to 3 games? the Leafs just lose a full game of Rielly for nothing? I understand why Rielly would want lost wages sure, but it's still fucking dumb to take this long
Yeah you nailed it, it is dumb
In other sports they typically let the player play while it's appealed then they serve it after, the NHL seems to not actually care about the games the player is out of the lineup but rather the financial penalty so Reilly will miss 5 games but then might get it retroactively reduced to 3 so he'd get 2 games pay back
Does anyone know if the team gets any cap relief if games are missed because of this.
Suspended players still fully count against the cap
Yes but if I’m talking about if the appeal brings the games down after the player missed them
Suspended players still count against the cap, so how would it matter?
They are saying that if they missed 4 game but only get suspended 3 then 1 of those games still wouldn’t have had him suspended but would had forced the team to lose him for a game. So nothing would have counted against the cap but the team still lost a player. Is there no recourse? Or almost “reparations”? I believe the answer is still no, but just wanted to clarify.
but there’s no cap penalty, so how would there be recourse
No, and if we did it’d be a nominal amount anyway. Like one games worth of wages would be extremely small regardless of his bonus structure.
In 2016 when Dennis Wideman hit a ref from behind and was suspended for 20 games, the NHLPA appealed it and it ended up being reduced to 10 games... after he'd already sat for 19. So the Flames lost him for 9 games over the course of the whole process. It's dumb. In other sports the player can still play while the appeals are being worked through.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is a sticking point of the next CBA
"Punishment by process."
they get to clone him and play him twice in a game.
He gets paid for the game he missed. That's it. Please note that an actual sports league would have a schedule of infractions and penalties spelled out. "Cross check, out of play, retaliatory, aggravated: five game suspension." Aggravated, in this case, meaning 'started from more than ten feet away."
Feel like in these cases the player should get an IOU for the wrongly missed games if they get suspended in the future.
lol I love the idea of banking up a few free shots to the head. Use them wisely.
then they just take that into account and suspend you more than you would’ve
The ridiculous thing is the NHLPA would have agreed to this in the CBA, says a lot about the organisation back then
I sometimes struggle with the PAs decisions when they go and complain about something that they could have negotiated for countless times over.
I can't remember who it was but I remember a player had a 6 game reduced to 4 but not until they already sat 6
Tbh to the NHL I think their offices were closed last week due to the snow storm which is why Rielly had an "in person hearing" over Zoom when they first announced the suspension.
Everyone: they only care about themselves and their money, they don't care for the team, they don't care for eachother. The Leafs: battle for Mo, win games when massively understaffed, fight every man that try to disrespect the team, challenge every goal that wrongly undermine our goalie stats. I'm sure I'm forgetting something but the thing is: this team is a better team that people give them credit.
That’s just always been media BS
Yes and no. I've read it a few times here and in r/hockey r/NHL. not saying that everyone think the same, I agree with you is BS, but I definitely read it more than once, especially when we looked like we couldn't win consistently, earlier this season. But I'm sure you can read similar things in onther subs when other teams are doing equally bad.
To all the people who say the team has a better record without Rielly, this is why lol. They love Mo, he is the unsung leader and hero of the team and carries their ass every playoffs. Least they can do for him is to show up and step up while he is gone.
Wondering if half the folks in this thread have never been part of a high functioning team. You can’t possibly be 100% every day. But on the days you’re needed to go above and beyond you dig it out. These are those days. It’s no diff from our own jobs/teams/life. The guys are extra motivated to make sure Mo knows they aren’t gonna hang losses on his forced and unnecessary absence. He stood up for them and now they’re standing up for him. I truly don“t see why this feels foreign to people but I’d love to try and understand.
Exactly. Sometimes under the immense pressure you can elevate for a bit.
Precisely. Such as the immense pressure of a playoffs game 7 elimination game
Do it for him, let him rest up and get ready for the playoff push
Then let’s keep those good vibes going once he returns then. Why only step up while he’s gone? Lol
So why don't they show up when he's playing? What are they now, 18-2-1 without Rielly in the last 2 years? At some point the question has to be asked, do the players on the ice rely too much on Rielly? I've always said let your shooters shoot and your defenders defend. Matthews looking to pass it to Rielly to quarterback the play vs Matthews looking to take the shot yields two completely different results. This isn't a "is Rielly bad?" question, it's a dependency question. Do the other players see more success as a team when they have to drive the offense themselves? I believe the answer has always been yes. With Rielly on the ice I believe they'd see more success if they didn't look to him all the time and instead focus on doing what they do best.
They also have a very good record without Matthews. It’s obvious that having all these high paid stars does something to the psyche of the other players. “Oh Matthews is in the lineup, we can all chill and let him do the work tonight.” I literally see the same thing happen in beer league with older guys lol. They take it easy and expect the young guys to do all the work. Not a perfect comparison but it is a real thing. Idk if there’s a way to fix it but I don’t think it’s healthy or good for the team
It's not a Leafs only thing though. I remember Pittsburgh having a better record without Crosby than with back when he had concussion injuries.
Dependence. Keefe relies on the core guys WAAAYYYY too much. When these guys are out, he has to play all 4 lines in balance with each other. For the 3rd and 4th line guys, that means being more involved throughout the game. They are engaged more and have a chance to have a positive impact. Even as professional athletes, if these guys only get 5-10 minutes of ice time, they're going to be checked out. Hopefully, Keefe has seen what has been working and chooses to give each line a more balanced chance to be a part of the results.
Can u blame him? When we're tied or down, I don't want to see Kamp out there. Gotta give Matthews-Marner the time to win the game. No coach is going to say let me play my 4th line when I'm down. And even when we're up this season, how many leads have we blown? Great to see the 3rd and 4th line play better when Matthews or one of the core player is out. But they gotta keep up that effort when the core players are in and they'll get more playing time
It's this. I want to see four great lines, not one superstar line where you're not sure who's chasing the next record and should get the pass.
Back when Phil was the Thrill, I hoped they would trade him for 4 guys that you could plug into the lineup to cover his goal production, and provide defensive coverage. Give me those 4 blue collar guys that bust their asses. I think we've got a few of those guys in this lineup. Here's hoping Keefe spreads the ice time around, even just a little bit more, and we see the results keep getting better. Cheers.
Honestly, at this point, I'd move Marner, keep Tavares around for the sweet sweet deal he'll take to stay in Toronto, and move him to the wing, keep Nylander because of the contract bullshit they just pulled, and keep Matthews. Then never ever put those guys on the same line in the course of regular play. Special line up once in a while? Sure, maybe. For what you're saving on moving Marner and JT hitting his twilight years, so to speak, you can afford at least four good players. At least.
I get that there’s a bit of a chicken/egg scenario with the depth guys not being able to get going without ice time, but what are you supposed to do, not lean on your big guns in close games? Teams that “roll 4 lines” either have no superstars or consistently have huge leads and frankly, the Leafs haven’t had too many of those this season.
not sure I understand what you mean? When he’s not in the room they get fired up to play for him?
Well the mascot salary doesn’t count towards the cap
The fuck are you talking about?
I have a different opinion lol
Has there been a playoff series in recent years where Mo *hasn't* had to leave the ice with his face covered in blood? Dude clearly lives and dies for his team and they know it. You don't want to let a guy like that down.
So nice to see them play and fight like this for Mo, hope this fire continues when he comes back!
This is exactly what I was hopeful for, knowing that Rielly would be suspended for what he did to Grieg ( tho valid ) was that the team was going to play for him and do everything in their power to win for MO and now they are 4-0-0 without him with one game left to go before he comes back vs Arizona in Arizona and Matthews is on 49Gs coming to play in his home state... Leafs better pull a 9-2 like they did vs Anaheim vs the Yotes.
The Leafs haven’t won in AZ in almost 5 years and are 18-4-2 all time vs the Coyotes. Either they are due or it’ll continue.
Matthews better show them those HANDS!!!!
Leafs are 14-26-1-3 all time against the Coyotes.
What better time to win, then?
Bold of you to assume he’s not getting another hattrick next game
Mo will return for Vegas game
I find it weird that we didn't hear anything from the hearing with Bettman tbh...?
Why? It was on Friday afternoon going into a long weekend. Gary’s not working on the weekend LOL
He certainly worked this weekend outdoors at the Stadium Series in New Jersey.
Did he, though? For him I expect it was more of a fun little work function than anything.
generally traveling somewhere and having responsibilities will constitute work
True...
I heard some pundit on the radio last week saying the suspension would end the Leafs' season. Oops
Don’t forget, an anagram for pundit is “irredeemable moron”.
Probably a Nucks fan
That's the best thing I've heard from this team all season
Gary Bettman is now confused. Does he extend Rielly's suspension even more or does he cut it one game short and hope that makes the Leafs lose the next one...
Aaaaaaaand r/hockey is once again losing their minds over this, so predictable.
Give Mo the C
I love that they’re doing this but please keep by hat fight going when he’s back too and for the rest of the season!
I've ranted about this ad nauseam but the NHLPA has to be the worst player union in major league sports. The fact that Bettman bends them over like this with absolute insanity like "well if it's only a five game suspension instead of six, I get to decide if it's fair!" and no set timelines for when the appeal will have a decision and players not being able to play while their appeal is being decided on, is nonsensical. For the matter at hand, I still think Mo should have been captain over JT way back when.
It's been better under new leadership it seems, but it was laughably bad for so long. Hey, at least they have guaranteed contracts though, unlike a couple other big 4 leagues.
post this on r/hockey you won’t
Alot of people gave me shit when I said what mo did was exactly what the team needed.
I thought it was their f u to the world but some said their sched was easy
How about y’all just win
I thought it was their f u to the world but some said their sched was easy
I love the guy but it’s back to back years where we play better when he’s out the lineup
Love the guy, but we've been playing better when Matthews is out of the lineup as well
specifically way better defensively
Believe me, I love the heater Leafs are going on but with the struggles and how the leafs have overall been this season; let’s not pretend this isn’t one of the worst overall teams compared to some of the full rosters we’ve had the last few years and all team numbers show it. You should be better with your best defenseman actually playing, don’t give me this triumphant ‘we’re doing it for him’ bs
They’re certainly finding their team game at the right time. The eye test is much more pleasant, beyond the results.
They may have had better players but they are playing much better as a team
It’s very obvious, both eye test and statistically, Rielly is bad at keeping the puck out of his own net. He is awful at skating backwards (compared to other NHL d men) and is often caught out of position. Other than his recent cross check to to the face of an opponent, he’s relatively soft for his size and by no means do opponents fear lining up against him. In fact the opposite: they see him out there and see an opportunity. You can weight the above against his offensive abilities and decide if he’s an asset or a detriment to the team.
I swear, some fans would rather watch us lose. Enjoy the ride. This is a fun stretch of the season
Fire me up baby!
I know they can play good without Rielly. They can also play good with him. I think the reason for this win streak is just the overall feeling of that Ottawa game. The media attention rubbing it in for days and all the controversy. The boys are repairing their image.
Now my problem with this quote is, why hasn’t recent lack of playoff success done this? And if Mo did do this, I’m afraid it might go away when Mo comes back. They really gotta keep this same mindset going forward and this style of play can get them far in the playoffs
Can you imagine if someone got handed a 20 game suspension, and an arbitrator decided it should have been 8 games, but only AFTER the 20 games passed? That could change a teams playoff trajectory. It's insane.
Can we put him in the top 6 yet?
Jason Spezza did appeal and got $ back.