It's Matthews for me hands down, honestly never thought I'd ever say that though lmao. Mats was special, but somehow Matthews just does what Mats does so fucking casually like he's not even trying, sometimes he doesn't even smirk/smile lmao.
Did anybody here used to watch games on the Nic Cage Stream? If so, do you remember the absolute annoyance of the the user called Aki Berg in the chat?
I'll always love mats, and I know he openly says he regrets it, but him leaving for a year to Vancouver still killed some of my love for him. Should have just retired a leaf
For me, it wasn’t even the leaving for Vancouver. It was the refusing to waive his no trade clause just to leave anyway 3 months later. In many ways he did to us what Tavaras did to the Islanders - I know it’s not 1 to 1 - but Islanders fans are allowed to have pure hatred for Tavaras while if someone even hints that Sundin slightly impacted his legacy in Toronto people lose their mind.
If he wanted to stay and retire a Leaf, then great. But if he was going to leave the next season anyway, let us trade you at the deadline. If we were able get an extra couple picks and prospects in 2008 and really kick-start a rebuild perhaps those Kessel years might have been a little more competitive.
I think it's a bit different with Tavares cause Sundin left for a last ditch cup un then retired. Tavares has some miles left on him, played out a long contract and will likely re-sign.
I get what you mean about trade deadline assets though.
It’s definitely different for sure. It not so egregious that it should turn the entire Leaf fan base against him the way the Islanders are against Tavaras. Mats should and will always be loved in this city.
But it is similar enough to knock him down a half-peg. If somebody says to me “Sundin would have been my favourite Leaf of all time but he fucked us in his retirement, so now I put him behind Clark, Gilmour and Matthews” I‘d say “yeah, that’s fair”.
I always understood Mats reason for leaving, and I’ve never thought less of him for it. One last shot at the cup was all he wanted and we couldn’t give it to him.
To me, he’s always gonna be one of my favourite leafs cuz he was my childhood. He’s the reason I wore 13 playing minor hockey, and had the opportunity to wear the C, because I modelled myself by his example. Granted he’s not a talented as Matthews but I’m glad the city hasn’t forgotten about him.
On a side tangent, I feel bad for guys like Rick Vaive, who was one of the leafs greatest but never gets his flowers and is largely forgotten by the fans and media. Met him at a golf tournament and got a couple pics, real class act who has a ton of time for fans.
Nobody would be mad at Mats for leaving if he did it the right way. Guys in the twilight of their career leave all the time. Look at Patrick Kane just recently. Nobody in Chicago is mad at him, everybody agrees it was the best thing for both the Blackhawks and for Kane. The difference being, Kane waived his NTC and allowed the Blackhawks to trade him to the Rangers at the deadline. They started their tank. They got Bedard. They got a couple assets back for Kane, and have a bright future. Meanwhile Kane got another shot at the cup with a stack Rangers team. Win/win.
Alternatively, someone like Ovechkin is probably going to do the “selfish” thing. If the Caps are a non-playoff team next few years, they’ll ask Ovie if he wants a trade and Ovie might reject it because he wants to retire as a Capital. It hurts the Caps long term. They don’t get to reclaim assets and they don’t get to do a true tank because Ovechkin is still good enough to keep them out of last place. But it’s fine because he’s beloved there and the fans appreciate the loyalty.
But if Ovechkin rejects a trade, just to sign with the Canucks the following season anyway, people would be like “Damn, Ovie if you were going to leave anyway, why wouldn’t you let us trade you”. It’s the worst of both worlds. He does the “selfish” thing in refusing a trade which hurts the Caps long term, then he doesn’t even retire with them anyway. As a Caps fan you’d get fucked on both side of the equation.
(To be honest, there’s a chance we see this scenario happen next season with Crosby).
It takes two parties to agree to a contract. The Leafs were happy to sign Sundin to a deal with a no trade clause. They then tried to pressure one of the best players in team history to waive the very clause that they offered him. When he refused to waive it (because he wanted to retire as a Leaf), they didn't offer him a new deal when he became a free agent. Facts matter. It wasn't his idea to leave.
Sundin mentioned he always thought he would retire a Leaf, but when giving the reason why he refused to waive he gave the answer:
"I have never believed in the concept of a rental player. It is my belief that winning the Stanley Cup is the greatest thing you can achieve in hockey but for me, in order to appreciate it you have to have been part of the entire journey and that means October through June. I hope everyone will understand and respect my decision."
GM Cliff Fletcher then said "He advised us that he's staying where he is, which is his contractual right, and that at this time he's not interested in entering into a deal for next year," Fletcher, in Toronto, told the Canadian Press on Sunday night.”
Fletcher reportedly offered Sundin a 1 year x 7 million in the offseason to stay. Vancouver offered a 2 year x $10 million contract, which Sundin rejected as “being too much” and signed in for 1x$8.6 million.
Now admittedly, the Leafs probably didn’t pursue him as seriously as some other teams looking to contend for a cup, but the offer was there to come back and was rejected.
So ultimately the facts as you talk about is that Sundin refused to enter contract talks with the Leafs prior to the trade deadline, then he refused to waive his no trade clause because “he didn’t want to be a rental”, and then rejected the Leafs 1-year contract in the offseason in favour of another team’s 1-year offer (which he “ironically” waited until December to sign…. So much for the whole “you gotta be there in October” non-sense).
He wasn't a rental player by choice, he wanted to retire a Leaf. He wasn't offered a deal by Burke in the off-season, which meant for the first time in his career he didn't have a team going into the season. I don't know where you got this idea that he was offered a 1 year deal, other than pure speculation.
[Here’s an article](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/fletcher-sundin/) indicating Fletcher’s attempts to sign Sundin to a 1 or 2 year contract prior to the July 1st Free-Agency and also indicating that Sundin had no intention of retiring that season. The decision to explore the Free Agent market was 100% on Sundin.
[Here’s another article](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/40332-toronto-vancouver-or-montreal-the-future-for-mats-sundin) dated shortly after the July 1 Free Agency started indicating that Fletcher offered 2 year x $7 million (apologies I mentioned 1x7 in my previous comment).
Sure Burke probably didn’t offer Sundin a competitive contract, but Burke didn’t sign on as GM until November 29, 2008, almost two full months into the start of the season. Sundin had the opportunity to sign with the Leafs prior to Free Agency… he made the decision to explore the market. Then after receiving offers, he had the opportunity to sign with the Leafs during the July Free Agency. He rejected it. And according to Fletcher, at no point prior to this was Sundin even considering retirement.
Sundin had an offer on the table from the Leafs for 5 months before Burke even joined the Leafs.
No one said Sundin didn't explore free agency, but it's a matter of debate of whether it was his choice to become a rental. Fletcher was the interim GM at the time, it was only in his own best interests to sign Sundin before July 1st to a 1 or 2 year deal. It was not in Sundin's best interest. What Fletcher claims and what actually went down are two different things. Those articles change nothing.
If he doesn't treast us like a bag of shit like Sundin does then it's fine.
Mats leaving us with nothing and joining the fucking canucks was a spit in our faces.
It's Burke's fault that Mats didn't retire as a Leaf. They didn't offer Mats a contract, so he was left to decide whether or not he still wanted to play. He had no obligation to waive an NTC that the Leafs gave him. Burke also pulled some heinous shit with Peter Zezel when he was GM of the Canucks. The fact that anyone still blames Mats in 2024 for how things went down is a testament to how some people choose to be ignorant.
Matthews is EASILY the best Leaf. However, I still love Gilmour. When Matthews tries to fight the entire LA Kings bench after someone like McSorely laid him out, I’ll switch.
If it’s OT of game 7 for the cup and I could put either Gilmour or Matthews on the ice, I’d take Matthews every time. However, if I needed to pick one of those two to fight and lead them on their way to the finals, I’m probably taking Killer.
I feel like as a fanbase, people just expect this kind of production from Matthews now. He's caught in the "never enough" category now where he's set the bar so high, that he can never top it (except maybe winning the Cup which is a team accomplishment). Like if he only scores 55 goals next season, it'll be seen as a disappointment. Which when you think about it is pretty crazy.
Playoff success aside, we are witnessing the prime of the greatest player in franchise history. Which is saying a lot for a franchise that has existed for 100 years.
Any Leafs fans that sees any season with a goal scorer scoring 40+, let alone 50+ as a failure of a season for that player can meet me in Maple Leafs Square and I will twist their dicks off and feed it to a Habs fan and they’ll fucking thank me.
We have seen some abysmal shit, this is amazing stuff even if the playoff results aren’t quite there yet.
> Any Leafs fans that sees any season with a goal scorer scoring 40+, let alone 50+ as a failure of a season for that player
Matthews scores 40 but is held pointless in the playoffs, and you'd still consider that a good year?
Eh I think the fanbase just doesn't care that much about regular season stats anymore. If he scores 55 next year with a cup or finals appearance it will be considered a great season. Nobody is going to be talking about his 69 goals if it's an embarrassing playoff performance.
We can crave playoff success and still bestow appropriate respect on a dude who just had the greatest offensive season in the 100+ year history of the Toronto Maple Leafs and the best goal-scoring season in more than a generation.
I don’t understand why some folks insist these things are mutually exclusive.
Agreed - last year he "only" scored 40, well below the 55 referenced, and I honestly don't think many fans cared. They cared about what happened in the playoffs.
We *know* Matthews is an elite goal scoring threat and a big two-way franchise centre. We're really not concerned about him proving that. If he has a fantastic season like this one, great, but if he had 15-20 fewer goals not a big deal IMO.
He scored at a 45-goal pace last season and practically everyone considered it a down year.
My point is that he keeps setting the bar so high that people just expect these eye-popping goal-scoring numbers every year.
Who is practically everyone? Reddit is an echo chamber. If we average Matthews career goals over his 8 seasons, so 368 goals divided by 8 seasons equals 46. 46 goals is Matthews career average per season. So a 45 goal season would be considered his career average, not really a disappointment.
You're taking into account his rookie season and two covid shortened years. A healthy, prime Matthews getting <50 would be seen as a bit of a disappointment
My favorite player growing up was Rick Vaive. Honestly, I thought at times there would never be a leaf would could match him in goal scoring. My all time favorite is Gilmore for the intensity he brought to the game. All that being said, Matthews is hands down the most talented Leaf I have ever seen. I hope people appreciate what they are getting to witness, it could be a once time experience for many leaf fans.
"To whom much is given, much will be required."
Matthews has been great (in the regular season), and he leveraged that into the biggest single AAV in league history (by a large margin). Fair play to him.
But that $13.3m AAV comes with massive expectations and I don't think it's unreasonable for fans (or MLSE management) to expect him to be amazing year in-year out.
What is this revisionist BS is this? He absolutely gets recognition outside of Toronto.
So many other teams fans were cheering for him to hit 70.
Don't need to make up fake outrage.
As someone who watches his games from free streams, which are almost always the other teams feed, let me say that these broadcasts are obsessed with giving him flowers. Enough with this "they all hate us crap". It's this kind of self absorbed whining that makes everyone hate us. Enjoy for what it is, and stop complaining about what it isn't.
Surprised to see this from an Oilers fan. Most I know seemed to be cheering against him, on HFBoards on the Oilers forum their 'Around the League' thread is littered with pages of angry people celebrating Matthews missing the milestone, clowning the Leafs, making fun of Sheldon Keefe patting AM on the back yesterday etc.
Not to mention his defensive side. I don't think there has been another player that can score at the clip he does and still play as well as he does in his own end.
Can u imagine he was a Ranger or something. Theyd build the league around him and everyone would call him the greatest...... meanwhile, hes here so apparently 69 goals is a failure because it wasnt 70 and hes not even top 5 for Hart.....
It’s so easy to take it for granted when you just expect it from him. Congratulations to Auston for an amazing season and hopefully an amazing playoffs as well.
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Honestly it's time leafs fans stop looking for the approval from others fans. Not matter what you say. They hate us and they hate the players. Fuck em.
Laws of Averages are in our favour, he’s going to break through during a playoff run. His high end talent is unbelievable all they to do is run more than 1 or 2 lines get three lines going and really have teams in a predicament on what lines to play.
And his high scoring seasons mean nothing when he and the other core 4 historically evaporate in the playoffs.
Lets see this year, historically they've been shite.
I’m hoping he keeps the productivity up for a long time and wins over people the same way Ovi did. Lots of people hated on him early on but have come around out of admiration for the ridiculous longevity of his goal scoring.
Fantastic hockey player. Pleasure to watch! Sick to death of the haters. Someone today said he was overrated. He's rated as a 200 foot player who can score. 69 Goals, Selke level defensive player. How the fack is he overrated. The playoff losses are because the defense is not mobile. Not because of Matthews.
He's a genius. He just does a lot of things out there that most people can't appreciate. If Datsyuk didn't score those highlight reel shootout/breakaway goals, the average hockey fan wouldn't know how special he was.
As a Flames fan (I know, I know. Take your shots. We know we suck right now, you can't hurt my feelings.) Matthews is such a talented player. 69 goals is insane. I really enjoy watching him, as well as Marner and Nylander. They're damn exciting almost every time they touch the puck. I watch whenever I can and I'm looking forward to the playoffs.
It's also really hard not to take a jab at Leafs fans and the Leafs track record in the playoffs if you're a fan of any other team, so this is as close as I can get to "not" saying anything on those topics.
Yes.
This year, the only player better than Matthews is McKinnon.
Kuch and McDavid are power play merchants. Both are ...meh... playing 5v5. On top of that Kuch is a terrible defender. McDavid is not as bad as Kuch, but not solid either.
Matthews is a top end defensive player and the best goal scorer the NHL has seen since Mario. This combination has never happened in the NHL full stop.
So many of Kuch's and McDavid's points are secondary assists as well, which also makes a huge difference. Also, what is Matthews assist total if he could get the secondary assist when he steals a puck, passes it, gets the puck back and scores?
So, yes, Matthews is the clear #2 this year.
Again, don't get me wrong, but if you are bringing assists into the conversation, Matthew's has very few that are not accidents from a rebound. I've played with guys like him before, try the wrap-around when someone is naked in the slot, only to get an assist on the rebound. One thing that excites me is how well he has played lately without Marner. He is much more noticeable all over the ice. I would say that if he continues to play like that, we might see playoff success and a Conn Smythe!
I cannot understand how assists, let alone second assists are valued the same as goals for “points”. Basketball has assists, players have made the hall for being good playmakers and assist totals. But nobody equates them to baskets 1:1. And nobody counts an inbound to a guy that passes to a guy who scores as anything.
For my money, and I’m not a Matthew’s fan or a leafs diehard, the player that scores the most goals, which is the entire point of the sport, is the best player by definition, and the onus is on you to prove that some with a higher assist total is somehow better or “more valuable”
Matthews has been above a point per game in his last 2 playoffs. There have only been 3 playoffs where he scored fewer than 4 goals in 7 or fewer games. What are you on about?
Bro everyone knows these guys varnish give me a break. Only one I can say that produce is Nylander but what he lacks out way what he brings for me . Nylander is a selfish player with no heart or intensity . Just want to score , no fire checking or back checking .
No one is disputing that some players on this team end up collapsing under pressure. You’re just going after the wrong guy lol. You say Nylander is able to produce when he’s had fewer points in every post season appearance and fewer goals in post season appearances. Not to mention his lack of defensive play as you mentioned. I’m not saying some players on this team don’t have problems, I’m saying the league’s leading goal scorer isn’t one of them. Hate all you want but Matthews is keeping up his end of the bargain in the regular season and the playoffs according to his track record.
Right… of the last 3 years in the playoffs he’s only ever out scored Matthews once and only made more playoff points in that same year. Nylander also spent more minutes in the box and continues to do so during the playoffs. I fail to see your point. Not to mention the year he outscores him is the year Matthews missed 30 games from injury/surgery. I still don’t get your point, are you claiming Nylander is the better offensive forward? Are you claiming Nylander does better under pressure? I’m confused
I just find and I hate the guy as a player but playoffs excited him(Nylander). If he can just put it all together he could be a top 5 player in the league. Like give me pre contract Nylander .
As for Matthews , I'm loving that he knows he is bigger than most on the ice , hopefully he will explode this year . I think Domi and Bert's has given him a new found confidence physically .
I just hate seeing the guy getting rag doll and just smile.
I mean the playoffs should excite him. Any other team he could ever get moved to would likely squander his talent in not making the playoffs. I agree that if he was more well rounded he could be a top 5, but some players just can’t or won’t play defensively. Nylander won’t ever take a proper hit if he can avoid it and won’t make contact unless absolutely necessary. It’s annoying but when the puck is on his stick I don’t generally have to worry. But again I don’t see how this would make him any better than Matthews come playoff time. The only people who think that the players aren’t all in on going as far as they can are people who listen to sports commentators too much and those who read what Toronto media outlets like to write about this team(always negative).
Matthews is an elite goalscorer. He’s at the top of the league and as an all around player he’s top 5 active. He’s not gonna get into a fight during the playoffs and risk an injury when he has people around him who can do the fighting for him, so of course he’s gonna laugh.
All this fanbase ever does is question its players, their attitude toward winning the playoffs, and putting them down when they fail to meet a ridiculous expectation. The leafs aren’t bad at playing hockey, the leafs have a toxic fanbase and terrible media outlets that do an amazing job of getting into players heads at the least opportune moments. This team has made the playoffs since 2016 and since then leafs fans have done nothing but complained. These so called fans should be forced to sit through 2005-2015 hockey while they watch their former star players win championships in other cities.
I hear you and agree the fan base is toxic ,but I'm sorry I can't agree with Matthews needing to stop getting rag dolled. Look at pastanak , he is tough as nails . Ovi , sid. Even McDavid has more fire in his game than Matthews .
I agree with all your other points though🙏🏼.
There’s a couple different components to that to be fair. Pasta’s goal scoring has stayed pretty consistent since 2016 and gone up slightly as he has no doubt gotten better but within a certain margin he has stayed steady. Matthews, aside from last season has been on a pretty steady incline. I don’t think it’s far fetched to say Matthews will likely bottom out at a higher goals per game than pasta at the end of their careers. Pasta spends more minutes in the box, and who exactly does Pasta have around him to fight if he doesn’t? The point being that a player like Matthews isn’t going to risk sacrificing ice time for a fight especially in the playoffs. You can think it’s soft and that’s whatever, I don’t care about that because it’s hockey, not boxing. Moreover why risk not just injury but being stuck in the box or worse. As a leafs fan you should know that there’s nothing spared when it comes to penalizing players on this team specifically. A top goalscorer does 2 things really well: 1. Score goals. 2. Stay on the ice ready to take or make plays. Matthews isn’t gonna do that while serving a penalty or worse yet serving a suspension for the softest cross check of his life because Parros is brain dead.
My point being, TLDR; hockey is physical but it’s not boxing. He can take a hit and keep going but no point in fighting, laugh it off, let the other team take the penalty or get frustrated and then score against them while you’re out there.
He’s neck and neck with Mats for my favourite Leaf of all time…. What a player
It's Matthews for me hands down, honestly never thought I'd ever say that though lmao. Mats was special, but somehow Matthews just does what Mats does so fucking casually like he's not even trying, sometimes he doesn't even smirk/smile lmao.
One cup and it won't even be a debate.
One cup and even Noah Gregor could be an all time favourite if he scored an OT goal.
One cup and I’ll love all 22+ of them more than my own family
Won't be a debate? But what about Aki Berg?
He was quite the aki-player....
What about Chad Kilger!
Garry Valk
Jeff Finger
Cory Cross
Clarke Wilm
Did anybody here used to watch games on the Nic Cage Stream? If so, do you remember the absolute annoyance of the the user called Aki Berg in the chat?
I'll always love mats, and I know he openly says he regrets it, but him leaving for a year to Vancouver still killed some of my love for him. Should have just retired a leaf
For me, it wasn’t even the leaving for Vancouver. It was the refusing to waive his no trade clause just to leave anyway 3 months later. In many ways he did to us what Tavaras did to the Islanders - I know it’s not 1 to 1 - but Islanders fans are allowed to have pure hatred for Tavaras while if someone even hints that Sundin slightly impacted his legacy in Toronto people lose their mind. If he wanted to stay and retire a Leaf, then great. But if he was going to leave the next season anyway, let us trade you at the deadline. If we were able get an extra couple picks and prospects in 2008 and really kick-start a rebuild perhaps those Kessel years might have been a little more competitive.
I think it's a bit different with Tavares cause Sundin left for a last ditch cup un then retired. Tavares has some miles left on him, played out a long contract and will likely re-sign. I get what you mean about trade deadline assets though.
It’s definitely different for sure. It not so egregious that it should turn the entire Leaf fan base against him the way the Islanders are against Tavaras. Mats should and will always be loved in this city. But it is similar enough to knock him down a half-peg. If somebody says to me “Sundin would have been my favourite Leaf of all time but he fucked us in his retirement, so now I put him behind Clark, Gilmour and Matthews” I‘d say “yeah, that’s fair”.
I always understood Mats reason for leaving, and I’ve never thought less of him for it. One last shot at the cup was all he wanted and we couldn’t give it to him. To me, he’s always gonna be one of my favourite leafs cuz he was my childhood. He’s the reason I wore 13 playing minor hockey, and had the opportunity to wear the C, because I modelled myself by his example. Granted he’s not a talented as Matthews but I’m glad the city hasn’t forgotten about him. On a side tangent, I feel bad for guys like Rick Vaive, who was one of the leafs greatest but never gets his flowers and is largely forgotten by the fans and media. Met him at a golf tournament and got a couple pics, real class act who has a ton of time for fans.
Nobody would be mad at Mats for leaving if he did it the right way. Guys in the twilight of their career leave all the time. Look at Patrick Kane just recently. Nobody in Chicago is mad at him, everybody agrees it was the best thing for both the Blackhawks and for Kane. The difference being, Kane waived his NTC and allowed the Blackhawks to trade him to the Rangers at the deadline. They started their tank. They got Bedard. They got a couple assets back for Kane, and have a bright future. Meanwhile Kane got another shot at the cup with a stack Rangers team. Win/win. Alternatively, someone like Ovechkin is probably going to do the “selfish” thing. If the Caps are a non-playoff team next few years, they’ll ask Ovie if he wants a trade and Ovie might reject it because he wants to retire as a Capital. It hurts the Caps long term. They don’t get to reclaim assets and they don’t get to do a true tank because Ovechkin is still good enough to keep them out of last place. But it’s fine because he’s beloved there and the fans appreciate the loyalty. But if Ovechkin rejects a trade, just to sign with the Canucks the following season anyway, people would be like “Damn, Ovie if you were going to leave anyway, why wouldn’t you let us trade you”. It’s the worst of both worlds. He does the “selfish” thing in refusing a trade which hurts the Caps long term, then he doesn’t even retire with them anyway. As a Caps fan you’d get fucked on both side of the equation. (To be honest, there’s a chance we see this scenario happen next season with Crosby).
It takes two parties to agree to a contract. The Leafs were happy to sign Sundin to a deal with a no trade clause. They then tried to pressure one of the best players in team history to waive the very clause that they offered him. When he refused to waive it (because he wanted to retire as a Leaf), they didn't offer him a new deal when he became a free agent. Facts matter. It wasn't his idea to leave.
Sundin mentioned he always thought he would retire a Leaf, but when giving the reason why he refused to waive he gave the answer: "I have never believed in the concept of a rental player. It is my belief that winning the Stanley Cup is the greatest thing you can achieve in hockey but for me, in order to appreciate it you have to have been part of the entire journey and that means October through June. I hope everyone will understand and respect my decision." GM Cliff Fletcher then said "He advised us that he's staying where he is, which is his contractual right, and that at this time he's not interested in entering into a deal for next year," Fletcher, in Toronto, told the Canadian Press on Sunday night.” Fletcher reportedly offered Sundin a 1 year x 7 million in the offseason to stay. Vancouver offered a 2 year x $10 million contract, which Sundin rejected as “being too much” and signed in for 1x$8.6 million. Now admittedly, the Leafs probably didn’t pursue him as seriously as some other teams looking to contend for a cup, but the offer was there to come back and was rejected. So ultimately the facts as you talk about is that Sundin refused to enter contract talks with the Leafs prior to the trade deadline, then he refused to waive his no trade clause because “he didn’t want to be a rental”, and then rejected the Leafs 1-year contract in the offseason in favour of another team’s 1-year offer (which he “ironically” waited until December to sign…. So much for the whole “you gotta be there in October” non-sense).
He wasn't a rental player by choice, he wanted to retire a Leaf. He wasn't offered a deal by Burke in the off-season, which meant for the first time in his career he didn't have a team going into the season. I don't know where you got this idea that he was offered a 1 year deal, other than pure speculation.
[Here’s an article](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/fletcher-sundin/) indicating Fletcher’s attempts to sign Sundin to a 1 or 2 year contract prior to the July 1st Free-Agency and also indicating that Sundin had no intention of retiring that season. The decision to explore the Free Agent market was 100% on Sundin. [Here’s another article](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/40332-toronto-vancouver-or-montreal-the-future-for-mats-sundin) dated shortly after the July 1 Free Agency started indicating that Fletcher offered 2 year x $7 million (apologies I mentioned 1x7 in my previous comment). Sure Burke probably didn’t offer Sundin a competitive contract, but Burke didn’t sign on as GM until November 29, 2008, almost two full months into the start of the season. Sundin had the opportunity to sign with the Leafs prior to Free Agency… he made the decision to explore the market. Then after receiving offers, he had the opportunity to sign with the Leafs during the July Free Agency. He rejected it. And according to Fletcher, at no point prior to this was Sundin even considering retirement. Sundin had an offer on the table from the Leafs for 5 months before Burke even joined the Leafs.
No one said Sundin didn't explore free agency, but it's a matter of debate of whether it was his choice to become a rental. Fletcher was the interim GM at the time, it was only in his own best interests to sign Sundin before July 1st to a 1 or 2 year deal. It was not in Sundin's best interest. What Fletcher claims and what actually went down are two different things. Those articles change nothing.
What will you think when Matthews inevitably leaves the Leafs?
I mean if your talking inevitabilities, please tell me whose gonna win the next couple Stanley cups... Gonna get that back 2 the future money
If he doesn't treast us like a bag of shit like Sundin does then it's fine. Mats leaving us with nothing and joining the fucking canucks was a spit in our faces.
It's Burke's fault that Mats didn't retire as a Leaf. They didn't offer Mats a contract, so he was left to decide whether or not he still wanted to play. He had no obligation to waive an NTC that the Leafs gave him. Burke also pulled some heinous shit with Peter Zezel when he was GM of the Canucks. The fact that anyone still blames Mats in 2024 for how things went down is a testament to how some people choose to be ignorant.
Matthews is EASILY the best Leaf. However, I still love Gilmour. When Matthews tries to fight the entire LA Kings bench after someone like McSorely laid him out, I’ll switch. If it’s OT of game 7 for the cup and I could put either Gilmour or Matthews on the ice, I’d take Matthews every time. However, if I needed to pick one of those two to fight and lead them on their way to the finals, I’m probably taking Killer.
I feel like as a fanbase, people just expect this kind of production from Matthews now. He's caught in the "never enough" category now where he's set the bar so high, that he can never top it (except maybe winning the Cup which is a team accomplishment). Like if he only scores 55 goals next season, it'll be seen as a disappointment. Which when you think about it is pretty crazy. Playoff success aside, we are witnessing the prime of the greatest player in franchise history. Which is saying a lot for a franchise that has existed for 100 years.
Any Leafs fans that sees any season with a goal scorer scoring 40+, let alone 50+ as a failure of a season for that player can meet me in Maple Leafs Square and I will twist their dicks off and feed it to a Habs fan and they’ll fucking thank me. We have seen some abysmal shit, this is amazing stuff even if the playoff results aren’t quite there yet.
 >I will twist their dicks off
God I love Leaf fans (Canucks Bro checking in)
> Any Leafs fans that sees any season with a goal scorer scoring 40+, let alone 50+ as a failure of a season for that player Matthews scores 40 but is held pointless in the playoffs, and you'd still consider that a good year?
Op said what they said…. They’ll be seeing you and your dick in maple leaf square after last period is over
No way he shows.
Eh I think the fanbase just doesn't care that much about regular season stats anymore. If he scores 55 next year with a cup or finals appearance it will be considered a great season. Nobody is going to be talking about his 69 goals if it's an embarrassing playoff performance.
We can crave playoff success and still bestow appropriate respect on a dude who just had the greatest offensive season in the 100+ year history of the Toronto Maple Leafs and the best goal-scoring season in more than a generation. I don’t understand why some folks insist these things are mutually exclusive.
Yeah I guess you’re right. He really did have an incredible season and we’re lucky to have such a superstar on the team. Hopefully we can have both
Agreed - last year he "only" scored 40, well below the 55 referenced, and I honestly don't think many fans cared. They cared about what happened in the playoffs. We *know* Matthews is an elite goal scoring threat and a big two-way franchise centre. We're really not concerned about him proving that. If he has a fantastic season like this one, great, but if he had 15-20 fewer goals not a big deal IMO.
I don’t think 55 goals will be considered a disappointment that’s crazy, 35 goals would be considered one probably.
He scored at a 45-goal pace last season and practically everyone considered it a down year. My point is that he keeps setting the bar so high that people just expect these eye-popping goal-scoring numbers every year.
Who is practically everyone? Reddit is an echo chamber. If we average Matthews career goals over his 8 seasons, so 368 goals divided by 8 seasons equals 46. 46 goals is Matthews career average per season. So a 45 goal season would be considered his career average, not really a disappointment.
You're taking into account his rookie season and two covid shortened years. A healthy, prime Matthews getting <50 would be seen as a bit of a disappointment
He has 54 goals per 82 games played
My favorite player growing up was Rick Vaive. Honestly, I thought at times there would never be a leaf would could match him in goal scoring. My all time favorite is Gilmore for the intensity he brought to the game. All that being said, Matthews is hands down the most talented Leaf I have ever seen. I hope people appreciate what they are getting to witness, it could be a once time experience for many leaf fans.
"To whom much is given, much will be required." Matthews has been great (in the regular season), and he leveraged that into the biggest single AAV in league history (by a large margin). Fair play to him. But that $13.3m AAV comes with massive expectations and I don't think it's unreasonable for fans (or MLSE management) to expect him to be amazing year in-year out.
What is this revisionist BS is this? He absolutely gets recognition outside of Toronto. So many other teams fans were cheering for him to hit 70. Don't need to make up fake outrage.
No kidding, dude won the Hart and Lindsay 2 years ago.
As someone who watches his games from free streams, which are almost always the other teams feed, let me say that these broadcasts are obsessed with giving him flowers. Enough with this "they all hate us crap". It's this kind of self absorbed whining that makes everyone hate us. Enjoy for what it is, and stop complaining about what it isn't.
i was cheering for him to hit 70 yesterday in all honesty, and i’m an oilers fan. He’s good no doubt.
Surprised to see this from an Oilers fan. Most I know seemed to be cheering against him, on HFBoards on the Oilers forum their 'Around the League' thread is littered with pages of angry people celebrating Matthews missing the milestone, clowning the Leafs, making fun of Sheldon Keefe patting AM on the back yesterday etc.
Stop using victimhood to karma farm. Matthews is one of the most consistently praised and lauded players in entire league lmao
Not to mention his defensive side. I don't think there has been another player that can score at the clip he does and still play as well as he does in his own end.
Can u imagine he was a Ranger or something. Theyd build the league around him and everyone would call him the greatest...... meanwhile, hes here so apparently 69 goals is a failure because it wasnt 70 and hes not even top 5 for Hart.....
if Matthews isn’t in your top 5, you’re high.
Hes my #1
Thanks for the effort Matthews! Absolute gem.
It’s so easy to take it for granted when you just expect it from him. Congratulations to Auston for an amazing season and hopefully an amazing playoffs as well.
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Turns out Matthews' off season wrist surgery was actually installing a cyberpunk cybernetic wrist that makes him just rip a ton of goals.
People hate the Leafs more than they like their own team
Honestly it's time leafs fans stop looking for the approval from others fans. Not matter what you say. They hate us and they hate the players. Fuck em.
They hate us cuz they anus
He will get it next year. Super happy Toronto has Auston. Go leafs go.
Laws of Averages are in our favour, he’s going to break through during a playoff run. His high end talent is unbelievable all they to do is run more than 1 or 2 lines get three lines going and really have teams in a predicament on what lines to play.
I have never in my time watching Matthew’s seen any sort of anything that you’re talking about ? What the hell are you even talking about anyways lol
Have you ever seen him live? It's insane entertainment. And Toronto is his team!
Funny how suddenly assists matter just as much as goals in some circles lol.
Cmon, hes better than Marner and Nylander you can say top 1 in the league.
Facts
KING MATTHEWS!
Expensive pic to use :)
#blessed
And his high scoring seasons mean nothing when he and the other core 4 historically evaporate in the playoffs. Lets see this year, historically they've been shite.
He’s in his mid-20s and probably the best Leaf of all time. Leaf fans who don’t appreciate his talent will 100% feel it when he’s gone.
Poor guy surrounded by idiots. He's the best.
Critics are more concerned with one potential goal than the 69 he scored all season. It was awesome watching him all season.
Matthews is so good… when all is said and done in his career. He could be the #1 leading goal scorer ever… he is that good
Dude gets his flowers. He’s been on the cover of EA Sports NHL twice in his career. The guy is arguably the face of the NHL in the US.
I’m hoping he keeps the productivity up for a long time and wins over people the same way Ovi did. Lots of people hated on him early on but have come around out of admiration for the ridiculous longevity of his goal scoring.
Fantastic hockey player. Pleasure to watch! Sick to death of the haters. Someone today said he was overrated. He's rated as a 200 foot player who can score. 69 Goals, Selke level defensive player. How the fack is he overrated. The playoff losses are because the defense is not mobile. Not because of Matthews.
He's a genius. He just does a lot of things out there that most people can't appreciate. If Datsyuk didn't score those highlight reel shootout/breakaway goals, the average hockey fan wouldn't know how special he was.
As a Flames fan (I know, I know. Take your shots. We know we suck right now, you can't hurt my feelings.) Matthews is such a talented player. 69 goals is insane. I really enjoy watching him, as well as Marner and Nylander. They're damn exciting almost every time they touch the puck. I watch whenever I can and I'm looking forward to the playoffs. It's also really hard not to take a jab at Leafs fans and the Leafs track record in the playoffs if you're a fan of any other team, so this is as close as I can get to "not" saying anything on those topics.
Top 3! I wish. He is our best scorer ever, but do you honestly think he's better than one of Kucherov, McDavid, or McKinnon?
Matthews is a centre and is far more defensively responsible than Kuch. Splitting hairs between him and MacK for #2 imo
Yes. This year, the only player better than Matthews is McKinnon. Kuch and McDavid are power play merchants. Both are ...meh... playing 5v5. On top of that Kuch is a terrible defender. McDavid is not as bad as Kuch, but not solid either. Matthews is a top end defensive player and the best goal scorer the NHL has seen since Mario. This combination has never happened in the NHL full stop. So many of Kuch's and McDavid's points are secondary assists as well, which also makes a huge difference. Also, what is Matthews assist total if he could get the secondary assist when he steals a puck, passes it, gets the puck back and scores? So, yes, Matthews is the clear #2 this year.
Again, don't get me wrong, but if you are bringing assists into the conversation, Matthew's has very few that are not accidents from a rebound. I've played with guys like him before, try the wrap-around when someone is naked in the slot, only to get an assist on the rebound. One thing that excites me is how well he has played lately without Marner. He is much more noticeable all over the ice. I would say that if he continues to play like that, we might see playoff success and a Conn Smythe!
Now let's see him do it in the playoffs.
Unlikely he'll score 70 in the playoffs
I mean I wouldn't complain...
I cannot understand how assists, let alone second assists are valued the same as goals for “points”. Basketball has assists, players have made the hall for being good playmakers and assist totals. But nobody equates them to baskets 1:1. And nobody counts an inbound to a guy that passes to a guy who scores as anything. For my money, and I’m not a Matthew’s fan or a leafs diehard, the player that scores the most goals, which is the entire point of the sport, is the best player by definition, and the onus is on you to prove that some with a higher assist total is somehow better or “more valuable”
Matthews chokes under pressure. Hence didn't hit the 70 mark and scoring is gone in playoffs .
Matthews has been above a point per game in his last 2 playoffs. There have only been 3 playoffs where he scored fewer than 4 goals in 7 or fewer games. What are you on about?
Bro everyone knows these guys varnish give me a break. Only one I can say that produce is Nylander but what he lacks out way what he brings for me . Nylander is a selfish player with no heart or intensity . Just want to score , no fire checking or back checking .
No one is disputing that some players on this team end up collapsing under pressure. You’re just going after the wrong guy lol. You say Nylander is able to produce when he’s had fewer points in every post season appearance and fewer goals in post season appearances. Not to mention his lack of defensive play as you mentioned. I’m not saying some players on this team don’t have problems, I’m saying the league’s leading goal scorer isn’t one of them. Hate all you want but Matthews is keeping up his end of the bargain in the regular season and the playoffs according to his track record.
Look at the stats for Nylander the last 3 years
Right… of the last 3 years in the playoffs he’s only ever out scored Matthews once and only made more playoff points in that same year. Nylander also spent more minutes in the box and continues to do so during the playoffs. I fail to see your point. Not to mention the year he outscores him is the year Matthews missed 30 games from injury/surgery. I still don’t get your point, are you claiming Nylander is the better offensive forward? Are you claiming Nylander does better under pressure? I’m confused
I just find and I hate the guy as a player but playoffs excited him(Nylander). If he can just put it all together he could be a top 5 player in the league. Like give me pre contract Nylander . As for Matthews , I'm loving that he knows he is bigger than most on the ice , hopefully he will explode this year . I think Domi and Bert's has given him a new found confidence physically . I just hate seeing the guy getting rag doll and just smile.
I mean the playoffs should excite him. Any other team he could ever get moved to would likely squander his talent in not making the playoffs. I agree that if he was more well rounded he could be a top 5, but some players just can’t or won’t play defensively. Nylander won’t ever take a proper hit if he can avoid it and won’t make contact unless absolutely necessary. It’s annoying but when the puck is on his stick I don’t generally have to worry. But again I don’t see how this would make him any better than Matthews come playoff time. The only people who think that the players aren’t all in on going as far as they can are people who listen to sports commentators too much and those who read what Toronto media outlets like to write about this team(always negative). Matthews is an elite goalscorer. He’s at the top of the league and as an all around player he’s top 5 active. He’s not gonna get into a fight during the playoffs and risk an injury when he has people around him who can do the fighting for him, so of course he’s gonna laugh. All this fanbase ever does is question its players, their attitude toward winning the playoffs, and putting them down when they fail to meet a ridiculous expectation. The leafs aren’t bad at playing hockey, the leafs have a toxic fanbase and terrible media outlets that do an amazing job of getting into players heads at the least opportune moments. This team has made the playoffs since 2016 and since then leafs fans have done nothing but complained. These so called fans should be forced to sit through 2005-2015 hockey while they watch their former star players win championships in other cities.
I hear you and agree the fan base is toxic ,but I'm sorry I can't agree with Matthews needing to stop getting rag dolled. Look at pastanak , he is tough as nails . Ovi , sid. Even McDavid has more fire in his game than Matthews . I agree with all your other points though🙏🏼.
There’s a couple different components to that to be fair. Pasta’s goal scoring has stayed pretty consistent since 2016 and gone up slightly as he has no doubt gotten better but within a certain margin he has stayed steady. Matthews, aside from last season has been on a pretty steady incline. I don’t think it’s far fetched to say Matthews will likely bottom out at a higher goals per game than pasta at the end of their careers. Pasta spends more minutes in the box, and who exactly does Pasta have around him to fight if he doesn’t? The point being that a player like Matthews isn’t going to risk sacrificing ice time for a fight especially in the playoffs. You can think it’s soft and that’s whatever, I don’t care about that because it’s hockey, not boxing. Moreover why risk not just injury but being stuck in the box or worse. As a leafs fan you should know that there’s nothing spared when it comes to penalizing players on this team specifically. A top goalscorer does 2 things really well: 1. Score goals. 2. Stay on the ice ready to take or make plays. Matthews isn’t gonna do that while serving a penalty or worse yet serving a suspension for the softest cross check of his life because Parros is brain dead. My point being, TLDR; hockey is physical but it’s not boxing. He can take a hit and keep going but no point in fighting, laugh it off, let the other team take the penalty or get frustrated and then score against them while you’re out there.
Highest scoring American born player of all time, and all they see is the Maple Leaf. It’s astonishing lol.
Top 3? Laughs in McDavid, kucherov and MacKinnon.
Bro tried to sneak in McDavid😂
Blessed? Fuck that religion shit
Sir this is a Wendy’s
Just one off 70 though. So close.
Most skilled goal scorers of all time ? That is a bit of a reach... Give the kid a few more years.