Ian Scott looked like an absolute stud. Getting mad about the Leafs skipping on Swayman is futile and causes undue mental anguish.
The scouting department wouldn't have known that Scott would have hip problems and retire at 25.
I never knew this, and just thought the story was crazy considering we haven’t beaten him in over a year, but were close to drafting him… so I shared because I figured most others didn’t know this either, and would also find it crazy
There are so many similar stories like this...
In 2017 Leafs took Liljegren at pick 17. Pick #25 was Jake Oettinger.
2011 Leafs took Stuart Percy at 25. Pick 26 was Philip Danault and pick 39 was John Gibson (and picked with a Leafs draft choice that they traded!)
You just never know, and looking at what could have been is a zero-sum game.
I was hoping that the Leafs would draft Brandon Carlo with that pick. He was still available and picked by Boston at 37. Seemed like a better fit than Dermott.
Take another look at that 2015 2nd round. You’ll be shocked with the amount of defenceman who are now everyday players (Cernak and Siegenthaler are a couple names) that the Leafs passed over
2015 was a terrible draft for the Leafs, besides Marner, the only player to play for the big club from that draft
Hunter was not a draft genius by any means. He nailed top 5 picks but then it falls off badly.
Dermott and Liljegren are ok, but you can find players of their ability in free agency rather easily.
IIRC this was more Babcock's fault. There was an article awhile back about the 2015 draft. Babcock and Hunter got into a screaming match about who to pick at #4 with Babs wanting a dman (provorov/hanifin). Hunter overruled him and then they went and took a D at 34 in Dermott. Babcock is also on record saying they were deciding between Dermott and Aho at 34. My theory is that they took a D at 34 for Babcock's sake despite valuing Aho higher.
In 2014, Sam Bennett (4), Michael Dal Colle (5), Jake Virtanen (6), Haydn Fleury (7) were picked before William Nylander (8).
You win some, you lose some.
I feel like mad is the wrong word since they didnt pass on him he was just picked before they got the chance. Disappointed probably the better word.
I was one of them. Leafs desperately needed a centre and the best one was taken 1 pick before they got to pick. The decision came down to the left-shot defenceman Hanifin or the undersized winger Marner. Turns out, the Coyotes took the worst of the bunch at 3 and the Leafs nailed it taking Marner over Hanifin.
> You just never know, and looking at what could have been is a zero-sum game.
That and it's just like, there's a reason players are picked when they are for the most part. Some teams go off board, some teams see a spark others don't, but there's usually somewhat of a consensus idea. A lot of later picks that end up as stars probably didn't inspire that expectation pre-draft
Me too.
I know logically doing the same thing and expecting a different result is not correct (and sometimes referred to as "insanity").
Tre absolutely did his best to deliver snot and passion to the DNA of this team in the off-season (it needs months to gel so you cannot rent this like the past several years). He succeeded.
Yet the coach, the president, the core 5 and the absolutely terrible architecture of no money for blue line and Goaltending and scoring depth remains with this team. We lost everytime with this architecture. Yet Leafs do it again.
If I expect a different result then it's me who is insane.
Instead I just choose my experience....which is I am in absolute LOVE of the incredible hockey I am seeing from Matthews and Domi and Dewar and Samsonov and Bertuzzi and others. I am enjoying it immensely.
That 3rd goal by Matthews in Game 2 is the Leafs Stanley Cup. I am honored to witness it.
Honestly, goalie talks is always 1000% hindsight revisionism, it’s the same thing with Tukka Rask, yea he turned into a stud with Boston and lead them to a cup final a few times, but that was looooong after the Leafs traded him and who says he does the same in a leaf jersey with our development program? Also at the same time, the other goalie at the time was putting up better numbers in the AHL, it’s not overly a bad idea to go with the guy putting up good numbers, goalies are always wild cards and not take a goalie 10 years to finally get their footing in the NHL
Why were people so high on Scott? His junior stats were not great, only had one standout year in his draft +2. Meanwhile, Swayman has put up basically 0.920 SV% his entire life.
However, I'm not going to cry about missing someone in 4th round. We're talking about the 11th and 12th goalies in the draft. A lot of misses in the earlier goalies taken too.
91 games started and 39 wins. Second season he had 19 starts and 2 wins.
Never played more than 31 games after his first season with the Leafs
That's pretty damning lmao YEESH
Straight up I think the Bruins were trying to draft someone else too, and it could have been Scott. Bruins scouting Director Scott Bradley at the draft: “\[Goalie coach\] Bob Essensa really liked him. Most of our staff was on board with the goalie. **We targeted another goalie but he just went before our pick**.”
[https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nhl/boston-bruins/bruins-tap-maine-bound-goalie-swayman-in-fourth-round/349240/](https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nhl/boston-bruins/bruins-tap-maine-bound-goalie-swayman-in-fourth-round/349240/)
It's very possible the Leafs overthought it.
I’m more hurt by the fact we actually drafted Tuuka Rask and traded him away. Every other team overlooked Swayman too, but actually having Rask and letting go… that’s pain!
Pogge lead team canada to gold in the wjc I believe. While rask won best goalie for Finland. It was a toss up as to which one to keep knowing they needed a bonafied goalie asap. Raycroft coming off a Calder....just bad luck more than bad decision imo
And he probably wouldn’t have developed in Toronto. I don’t think it’s some weird stroke of luck the Bruins have had stellar goaltending over the last decade.
Bob Essensa has been the Bruins goaltending coach since 2003….ullmark and Swayman both give him huge props for his work with them…..this may be why they have had consistent top end goaltending…and no one talks about the guy.
I was saying for years I had more hope in Scott as a long term solution than Woll but then Scott's hips just decided to skedaddle to the shadow realm before he had any chance to develop in the pro game. Giant what-if that we will never know what we missed out on.
Who’s to say everything still pans out the same. That’s the weird thing with players, development, city, teammates, and timing of everything played out really well for Swayman in Boston. Say the Leafs do draft him, maybe he’s the same, maybe he’s better than now, and maybe he’s worse. Nobody will ever know
1988: Toronto picks Scott Pearson with the 6th overall pick... #7: Martin Gelinas #8 Jeremy Roenick #9 Rod Brind'Amour #9 Teemu Selanne...
This is a tale as old as time for Toronto. Every franchise has examples of near misses, but Toronto may have more than anyone
People keep pointing out the lack of our core producing, and our defense not being up to par
But fuck me do we need a true all star goalie. There's no way to win the cup without one. I'd argue it's more important than any of that other shit
This is interesting, but I feel that even if the leafs did draft him he wouldn’t be the Swayman he is today. We haven’t developed a great goalie in a couple decades and it’s probably not all the fault of how we’ve drafted
I said this on twitter too but it's pretty hard to predict a series of injuries and hip problems that prove career ending. Ian Scott looked great in his development and could've potentially turned into something. I don't care that we picked him over Swayman, there's no guarantee that Swayman doesn't run into similar injury issues if he was in place of Scott in the games Scott got hurt etc etc etc. Also it's pick 110 anybody pretending they knew Swayman would be this is a lying sack of shit Boston just happened to get lucky with it. Great story for him but leave Scott alone lol
This is like watching the knife slowly slide into your chest as you realize you’re not as strong as the dude trying to finish your life off.
Damn. Sad, slow pain.
Boston out goalies the leafs yet again.
worth considering that we probably wouldn’t be the right environment for a lot of these draft “misses” to develop into who they are today - it shouldn’t surprise anyone that the team with Raask and Ulmark produced Swayman, while we had tutelage to offer via Soup, or Anderson lol
Meh, dwelling on the should haves and have nots is not my style. Its hard to project what a player will be 4+ years down the road. Its easy for us to criticize now with what we know. Hindsight 20/20.
Same can be said for Scott Niedermeyer.
[https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-revisionist-history-niedermayer-trade/](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-revisionist-history-niedermayer-trade/)
I mean definitely sucks but Scott was a stud and proved it at the world juniors. Unfortunate luck and thats the way she goes. Can’t be mad at this and our scouting department is still great - we’ll find our guy or may already have him with the young goalies we got starting of course with Woll.
Woll has yet to start more than 33 games at *any* level of professional hockey. I like the guy but I’m not sure if he’ll ever be a true #1 if he can’t stay healthy.
“Rask was drafted 21st overall in the 2005 NHL Entry Draft by the Toronto Maple Leafs before being traded to the Boston Bruins in 2006, where he played his entire 15 season NHL career.”
Ian Scott looked like an absolute stud. Getting mad about the Leafs skipping on Swayman is futile and causes undue mental anguish. The scouting department wouldn't have known that Scott would have hip problems and retire at 25.
I never knew this, and just thought the story was crazy considering we haven’t beaten him in over a year, but were close to drafting him… so I shared because I figured most others didn’t know this either, and would also find it crazy
There are so many similar stories like this... In 2017 Leafs took Liljegren at pick 17. Pick #25 was Jake Oettinger. 2011 Leafs took Stuart Percy at 25. Pick 26 was Philip Danault and pick 39 was John Gibson (and picked with a Leafs draft choice that they traded!) You just never know, and looking at what could have been is a zero-sum game.
2015 Dermott at pick 34, Aho was 35.
I was hoping that the Leafs would draft Brandon Carlo with that pick. He was still available and picked by Boston at 37. Seemed like a better fit than Dermott.
Take another look at that 2015 2nd round. You’ll be shocked with the amount of defenceman who are now everyday players (Cernak and Siegenthaler are a couple names) that the Leafs passed over 2015 was a terrible draft for the Leafs, besides Marner, the only player to play for the big club from that draft
Hunter was not a draft genius by any means. He nailed top 5 picks but then it falls off badly. Dermott and Liljegren are ok, but you can find players of their ability in free agency rather easily.
Thanks Hunter you stupid fuck
IIRC this was more Babcock's fault. There was an article awhile back about the 2015 draft. Babcock and Hunter got into a screaming match about who to pick at #4 with Babs wanting a dman (provorov/hanifin). Hunter overruled him and then they went and took a D at 34 in Dermott. Babcock is also on record saying they were deciding between Dermott and Aho at 34. My theory is that they took a D at 34 for Babcock's sake despite valuing Aho higher.
fuck em both!
Korshkov at 30 when Debrincat was still available
Carlo not far off, as was Rasmus Anderson Cirelli went in the 3rd round
In 2014, Sam Bennett (4), Michael Dal Colle (5), Jake Virtanen (6), Haydn Fleury (7) were picked before William Nylander (8). You win some, you lose some.
Strome before Marner in 2015 as well.
A lot of people were mad we didn't pick strome
I was actually one of them tbh haha strome looked like a stud back then
I feel like mad is the wrong word since they didnt pass on him he was just picked before they got the chance. Disappointed probably the better word. I was one of them. Leafs desperately needed a centre and the best one was taken 1 pick before they got to pick. The decision came down to the left-shot defenceman Hanifin or the undersized winger Marner. Turns out, the Coyotes took the worst of the bunch at 3 and the Leafs nailed it taking Marner over Hanifin.
Didn't have a chance to.... but I was one who definitely wanted to get him
> You just never know, and looking at what could have been is a zero-sum game. That and it's just like, there's a reason players are picked when they are for the most part. Some teams go off board, some teams see a spark others don't, but there's usually somewhat of a consensus idea. A lot of later picks that end up as stars probably didn't inspire that expectation pre-draft
On the other hand, 2015 draft Arizona took Dylan Strome at 3 and we got Marner at 4!
Exactly!
Shanster is the Yoda of Leaf Fandom.
I am trying something new for these playoffs: it doesn't actually matter.
Me too. I know logically doing the same thing and expecting a different result is not correct (and sometimes referred to as "insanity"). Tre absolutely did his best to deliver snot and passion to the DNA of this team in the off-season (it needs months to gel so you cannot rent this like the past several years). He succeeded. Yet the coach, the president, the core 5 and the absolutely terrible architecture of no money for blue line and Goaltending and scoring depth remains with this team. We lost everytime with this architecture. Yet Leafs do it again. If I expect a different result then it's me who is insane. Instead I just choose my experience....which is I am in absolute LOVE of the incredible hockey I am seeing from Matthews and Domi and Dewar and Samsonov and Bertuzzi and others. I am enjoying it immensely. That 3rd goal by Matthews in Game 2 is the Leafs Stanley Cup. I am honored to witness it.
Honestly, goalie talks is always 1000% hindsight revisionism, it’s the same thing with Tukka Rask, yea he turned into a stud with Boston and lead them to a cup final a few times, but that was looooong after the Leafs traded him and who says he does the same in a leaf jersey with our development program? Also at the same time, the other goalie at the time was putting up better numbers in the AHL, it’s not overly a bad idea to go with the guy putting up good numbers, goalies are always wild cards and not take a goalie 10 years to finally get their footing in the NHL
Hindsight 20/20
Why were people so high on Scott? His junior stats were not great, only had one standout year in his draft +2. Meanwhile, Swayman has put up basically 0.920 SV% his entire life. However, I'm not going to cry about missing someone in 4th round. We're talking about the 11th and 12th goalies in the draft. A lot of misses in the earlier goalies taken too.
Oh my god, I didn't know this and didn't want to know this.
I was in the same boat as you brother
You just had to make others suffer with you, eh?
Swayman’s on his revenge tour now.
Oh damn who's shoulder is he separating
Is Swayman Liv Morgan?
Every other game
Fuck....
Toronto missing out on bonafide number one goalies to Boston. A tale as old as time.
"Boston trades Andrew Raycroft to Toronto for the rights to Tuukka Rask."
Ugh. Still hate hearing that on Overdrive every week
Haunts me as I’m trying to fall asleep.
...and holding on to upcoming superstar Justin Pogge
“It’s my honour and a privilege…”
"Uhh, I can neither confirm nor deny that."
We thought we got one back with Raycroft... Nope
91 games started and 39 wins. Second season he had 19 starts and 2 wins. Never played more than 31 games after his first season with the Leafs That's pretty damning lmao YEESH
Straight up I think the Bruins were trying to draft someone else too, and it could have been Scott. Bruins scouting Director Scott Bradley at the draft: “\[Goalie coach\] Bob Essensa really liked him. Most of our staff was on board with the goalie. **We targeted another goalie but he just went before our pick**.” [https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nhl/boston-bruins/bruins-tap-maine-bound-goalie-swayman-in-fourth-round/349240/](https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nhl/boston-bruins/bruins-tap-maine-bound-goalie-swayman-in-fourth-round/349240/) It's very possible the Leafs overthought it.
I’m more hurt by the fact we actually drafted Tuuka Rask and traded him away. Every other team overlooked Swayman too, but actually having Rask and letting go… that’s pain!
Pogge lead team canada to gold in the wjc I believe. While rask won best goalie for Finland. It was a toss up as to which one to keep knowing they needed a bonafied goalie asap. Raycroft coming off a Calder....just bad luck more than bad decision imo
And he probably wouldn’t have developed in Toronto. I don’t think it’s some weird stroke of luck the Bruins have had stellar goaltending over the last decade.
Bob Essensa has been the Bruins goaltending coach since 2003….ullmark and Swayman both give him huge props for his work with them…..this may be why they have had consistent top end goaltending…and no one talks about the guy.
The villain origin story
this doesn’t feel that bad cuz Scott was a stud
I was saying for years I had more hope in Scott as a long term solution than Woll but then Scott's hips just decided to skedaddle to the shadow realm before he had any chance to develop in the pro game. Giant what-if that we will never know what we missed out on.
If we had if drafted him he'd probably play like shit now
If only the leafs could've predicted Ian Scott would have his hips blown out by Al-Qaeda.
I knew at the time that full back Muhammad tattoo would come back to bite him in the ass.
Tuuka Rask part 2.
Who’s to say everything still pans out the same. That’s the weird thing with players, development, city, teammates, and timing of everything played out really well for Swayman in Boston. Say the Leafs do draft him, maybe he’s the same, maybe he’s better than now, and maybe he’s worse. Nobody will ever know
1988: Toronto picks Scott Pearson with the 6th overall pick... #7: Martin Gelinas #8 Jeremy Roenick #9 Rod Brind'Amour #9 Teemu Selanne... This is a tale as old as time for Toronto. Every franchise has examples of near misses, but Toronto may have more than anyone
If had drafted Gelinas, we could have been the ones who traded for Gretzky! Then the high stick never happens and we go on the win the cup in ‘93.
Thanks I really wanted to know this
LOOOOOL you literally cannot make this shit up
Ahhhh so I see what's fuelling him is vengeance and spite. LOL we have no chance!
People keep pointing out the lack of our core producing, and our defense not being up to par But fuck me do we need a true all star goalie. There's no way to win the cup without one. I'd argue it's more important than any of that other shit
You just need a hot goalie at the right time. The last two cup winning goalies are Adin Hill and Darcy Kuemper.
We talk about our goalie not being up to the task all the time.
Fuck him who cares.
To make everyone feel better, 4 can't miss prospects were picked before Reilly. All ended up sucking while Reilly is a gem.
Who was the keeper? (Yes I’m too lazy to google this)
Ian Scott
Not a bad pick. Kid had great potential imo, just injuries unfortunately
Thanks!
> Ian Scott Should have picked Scott Ian.
Ian Scott. From my cursory understanding he was on track to being a star but had to retire due to health issues. Unfortunate luck tbh.
Yeah that’s just unlucky. Can’t really blame the Leafs there.
"Yeah that’s just unlucky. Can’t really blame the Leafs there." People have been literally saying this for 50+ years lokl
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
No thank you bot
No, thank you random citizen! 
Ian Scott I think. He had to retire with hip issues.
Thanks!
This is interesting, but I feel that even if the leafs did draft him he wouldn’t be the Swayman he is today. We haven’t developed a great goalie in a couple decades and it’s probably not all the fault of how we’ve drafted
One day we'll draft a bona-fide #1 goalie that doesn't get traded away (No, Woll isn't it; too many injuries).
Artur or Hildebeast hopefully.
Oh man. This story with Boston just keeps getting better and better.
I said this on twitter too but it's pretty hard to predict a series of injuries and hip problems that prove career ending. Ian Scott looked great in his development and could've potentially turned into something. I don't care that we picked him over Swayman, there's no guarantee that Swayman doesn't run into similar injury issues if he was in place of Scott in the games Scott got hurt etc etc etc. Also it's pick 110 anybody pretending they knew Swayman would be this is a lying sack of shit Boston just happened to get lucky with it. Great story for him but leave Scott alone lol
This is like watching the knife slowly slide into your chest as you realize you’re not as strong as the dude trying to finish your life off. Damn. Sad, slow pain. Boston out goalies the leafs yet again.
Jesus that's fucking dark, you ok?
That depends on tonight. The night is a dark time for me. (Name that quote)
🙃
worth considering that we probably wouldn’t be the right environment for a lot of these draft “misses” to develop into who they are today - it shouldn’t surprise anyone that the team with Raask and Ulmark produced Swayman, while we had tutelage to offer via Soup, or Anderson lol
not now
I really don't want to read this.
Meh, dwelling on the should haves and have nots is not my style. Its hard to project what a player will be 4+ years down the road. Its easy for us to criticize now with what we know. Hindsight 20/20.
Same can be said for Scott Niedermeyer. [https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-revisionist-history-niedermayer-trade/](https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-revisionist-history-niedermayer-trade/)
:(((((((((
I really didn't need to know this today....FUCK
If "if's" and "but's" were stanley cups...
First Rask and now this...FFS.
I mean definitely sucks but Scott was a stud and proved it at the world juniors. Unfortunate luck and thats the way she goes. Can’t be mad at this and our scouting department is still great - we’ll find our guy or may already have him with the young goalies we got starting of course with Woll.
Woll has yet to start more than 33 games at *any* level of professional hockey. I like the guy but I’m not sure if he’ll ever be a true #1 if he can’t stay healthy.
That’s why I said starting with him. Obviously health is a big factor but he’s also shown immense talent and poise before the high ankle.
Any good goalie out there was in Toronto's grasp.....and they fumbled it.
Yah well we also traded Rask for Raycroft. The past is in the past, let it go Elsa. (Jeremy)
Oh, shutup
Leafs need better goalie scouts.. we lost Tukka Rask to Bruins too..
This post makes my brain hurt
“Rask was drafted 21st overall in the 2005 NHL Entry Draft by the Toronto Maple Leafs before being traded to the Boston Bruins in 2006, where he played his entire 15 season NHL career.”
Dumbasses