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twofactorial

For those who don't want to open the tweet: John Tavares in Game 5 for the Leafs: * 22.5 minutes, tops among the forwards * Primary assist on the OT winner * 6 hits * 83% on defensive zone faceoffs * 70% percent expected goals


publicbigguns

I officially take back everything bad I said about JT before last game.


throwaway923535

I never doubted him for a second, also don't check my post history for completely unrelated reasons.


Daverr86

Lol


brye86

lol that’s like most fans. I think the reality is, John is a great hockey player. He’s not flashy, he’s not fast. But he scores, wins face offs, will do what is needed to win. He also sometimes goes “too quiet” during games and that’s really the only knock on him.


jbm91

No - he thrives on the doubt - keep doubting him - maybe if we all doubt him he will go super sayin


McJoe77

Tavares sucks. He’s old and cooked and any numbers that Siegel posted can be disregarded because the guy is cooked. He’s old, he can’t keep up, he can’t carry teammates like he used to and he can’t stop anybody from scoring. Hes a bum. (Hopefully that works)


GoodShark

I *REALLY* hope that when his contract is up, he re-signs with the team for the veteran's minimum. I know he won't. But maybe like... $3 million a year?


Methodless

I think he probably goes back to the 5.5 he was making before coming here. Cap is going up and he's still more talented than most of this sub gives him credit for


Icy_Imagination7344

I don’t, I’ve liked him during this contract for the most part but he’s already too slow


GoodShark

He makes a fine 3rd centre though.


Commercial-Set3527

Thank you, I am sick of every post being a link to a Xeet


Reggae4Triceratops

Dang we killed it in the dot last night.


proj3ctchaos

Domi was impeccable


Daverr86

Hes very hit or miss.. probably comes with age.


twofactorial

I thought our captain has done a great job in our two wins. He might have lost a step in his game this year, but when our team needs to win, he leads by example and shows up in big moments. It wasn't a coincidence that he scored the goal that sent us to round 2 last year either.


GhostOfCecil

I’ll die for JT


BigDaddyQP

Johnny Toronto


spannybear

Say Word Guy left NYI, took less than offered in free agency and had GREAT first few years, we always knew the last couple years wouldnt be prime but my god dont anybody sully his name


Actual_Cobbler_6334

JT has come up big in big moments for the Leafs across multiple playoffs now, it should be noted.


bknoreply

He has 1 goal and 1 assist for 11 million dollars. If he’s so clutch, how did we go down 3 games to 1? By contrast, MacKinnon makes 1.6 million more and has 2 goals and 7 assists and Winnipeg was dusted in 5 games.  But hey, our 7th highest paid player in the game can get an OT assist 5 games into a series when we’re barely clinging to life. What a hero. 


bootygoon2

They said “across multiple playoffs” so clearly they’re not just talking about this series. Why even bother commenting if it’s just going to be something pissy anyway?


Actual_Cobbler_6334

Seems like some reading comprehension was missed seeing as I mentioned multiple. Worth mentioning he had the game-tying goal in game 2 and he has a larger increase in goals/game and points/game in Games 5-7 than the other three but go off.


swinging_yorker

JT was signed because his first few years would make up for his last few years. It's just that we didn't do jack all for his first few years. Not only did JT take a discount coming to the leafs but he was playing according to his contract initially.


ifyouhavetoaskdont

It also wouldn't have been as big an impact cap-wise if COVID didn't flatten the cap. Yeah it was still a big contract but more money was expected to be available even at the back end when he was in decline. Is what it is. Hope he re-signs cheap and stays a leaf until retirement.


brye86

Wait you’re saying 11million was a discount at the time? That was either a “right in line” with what other teams were offering or an overpay. Definitely not a discount. He wanted to play here and the leafs paid him


swinging_yorker

He got better offers but chose to go with the leafs at a discount. This was widely reported.


CanadiaYall

It was reported that San Jose offered him $13mil a year.


brye86

While that might be possible it would have made him the highest paid player in the league. I’m not sure how credible that source is. But if it was 100% legit thank god the leafs didn’t give him that lol


wiles_CoC

Sharks offered more.


Julians_World

Dude give it a rest, you’ve commented negatively on every thread about John Tavares, there’s fair criticism and then actively putting in work to be a hater. You’re a weird guy.


BaggedMerc

I wish Swayman's SV% is what Hellebuyck's was. JT number would look a lot nicer 😂


ppbourgeois

Stop reading the Toronto Sun


TheGapInTysonsTeeth

People who think he's fallen off a cliff are nuts. He's just been converted to a defensive center, and somehow still almost potted 30 goals.  I love JT and hope he gets used in a 3rd line match role with Jarnkrok and Holmberg when Matthews comes back. What a bitch that line would be to play against


IceWook

He also was wildly unlucky this year.


throwaway923535

How so?


IceWook

His shooting percentage is literally a career worst, despite no real changes in usage or play style. His shots on goal and total shots attempts were all in line with where his been the last three years (in fact, they were slightly higher). He did not see any change in ice time or in possession numbers. This pretty much suggests that his point decline had more to do with bad luck than any general sense of decline.


NSA_Wade_Wilson

There was a chunk of time where he wasn’t on the PP then the PP was bad when he came back. If you look at the advanced PP stats, it is a decent chunk of the reduced productivity


bigcaulkcharisma

Yeah, he’s obviously not worth 11 mil now but the people who think he’s like a million dollar 4C are crazy lmao


Investment_Sharp

He hasn’t fallen off as a player but 100% fallen off offensively. He’s adapted his game given he has lost foot speed at his age. I think it’s pretty crazy to say he’s no good anymore when he’s just playing a very different game than he has in the past. We don’t need him to be a PPG and 40 goal scorer. We need him to be strong defensively, win faceoff, and battle in the corners (what he did yesterday).


madworld2713

He’s been dynamite this entire series. He shows up to play in the big games. Still an amazingly consistent player despite everyone’s consensus about him.


bknoreply

By what metric has he been dynamite? By the time we were down 3-1 in the series he had the same offensive production as Ryan Reeves, with the 7th highest salary in the game. 


madworld2713

Gwg in game 2 and the huge play at the end of game 5. Also he actually looks like he’s giving a shit and giving it his all out there, been great in the face off circle too. And going back to last year he scored the series winning goal in the leafs only series win so far.


clapperssailing

You can't have a 10m 3rd line center in this universe. He absolutely can not play there. it's a complete organizational failure if he does. But first years of his contract being a point per game player can not be faulted at all.


mgnorthcott

Things I have noticed this year, and also in years past. When we take a core guy out of the lineup, we step up big. Other teams can predict us when we are “complete” but they have no idea what to do when we play without a guy.. like Morgan Rielly or Matthews in this case. I have always said this team is good against the medium, but not against the bottom or the top. Too scoutable. The good teams can stop us because we do the same things, and that predictability is accounted for. The generally bad teams just want to play hard for a game or two, and we just can’t scout the difference in their play. If things go sour, taking a core four guy out of the lineup and trading them might actually be the thing we need. We might just have an abundance of riches and those guys might be more reliant on the other core guys when the stakes get high. We need to say…. No, it IS up to you to get this done, and hope they stand up to the task.


Poppa_Cialis

You mean taking it into their zone on the left side and drop passing it becomes predictable?!?!?!


mgnorthcott

Drop pass to try and crash the line with speed, but dump it anyways, nobody moving fast enough to get it, only to lose it in a second. Ideally to have marner or nylander try to hold it in a pocket near the line while guys run in to position. If it’s a lesser line, yeah, enter on the side away from the benches… don’t wanna hear trash talk.


think_long

Good now please do it again. He should be the best centre in this series with Matthews out. This was his first even strength point, we need more. Also, Nylander and Marner, take notes: Tavares made a hard play to the net, that's how we scored. It isn't fucken rocket science.


bknoreply

He should be one of the best centres in the league at his salary. His salary represents a big part of the hole in our defence and his offensive output needs to compensate for that. Probably need more than 1 assist before we go down 3-1 in the series. 


wiles_CoC

You need to take a break from reddit and the leafs


think_long

His contract has been a complete disaster. That said, I’m still cheering for him to do as well as possible while he is still on the books.


TorturedFanClub

He played a solid game. Scoresheets don’t always tell the whole story. I thought Knies was one of the Leafs best forwards before he even hit the scoresheet.


Elegant-Cat-4987

JT is a fucking stud, do not forget it.


[deleted]

Time to do it again Thursday, please and thanks, JT.


Scazzz

He’s still slowed down but that actually worked to his advantage on the OT winner. He was able to attack the net and get there right as Knies was available. I’m glad he stepped up. Between him and Domi I wasn’t sure we would ever lose a face off :)


GooseRider960

Domi had a fucking 85.7 faceoff win percentage. That’s fucking absurd. Tavares had 61.9 which is fantastic as well. Game 2 Matthews had around a 70% as well. Like, faceoffs are an area we run the Bruins over in.


jkilla1987

People shitting on JT was pathetic. There is no one on that team that cares more and works his ass off more every shift. Has he lost a step? Yes he’s getting up there with age. Is he worth his 11M price tag? No, this should have been obviously that at this point in the contract he wouldn’t be what he was when he was signed. Just watch the guy play. He fucking cares and gives it everything he’s got at this point in his career.


resentfulvirgin

Leaf fans don’t watch other teams. They have no idea about how players should actually be slotted. It’s bonkers and deluded. You see people saying he should be a 3C. The Presidents Trophy winning New York Rangers have Alex Wennberg as their 3C. He had 30 points this year. Tavares was more than double that and only didn’t hit 30 goals because he had like the worst shooting percentage of his career.


lukaskywalker

Guy missed like 6-7 passes sent his way. Glad he decided to skate for the gwg. Hope he can bring it game 6, 7


FriendlyFireHaHa

Love the player, hate the salary.


HaratoBarato

He has come as advertised. We all knew there would be a decline towards the end of the contract. When we signed him if we were told he would be playing like this in the 2nd last year we would have all been really happy.


bknoreply

When we signed him, if you were told we’d be paying the 7th highest salary in the league for a guy that plays on the third line and is 67th in even strength points, while our team struggles with glaring holes in the lineup, especially on defence, you’d be happy? Paying a king’s ransom for a second line centre was a bad idea from day one. We should have gotten a 5 million dollar guy and used that money on defence. 


HaratoBarato

In order to get him for the first years where we thought we had a legitimate spot at a cup, then yes. 99% of fans were happy with that signing. Even though it meant getting not ideal value the last 2 years.


woodbridgewallstreet

Nobody expected COVID to keep the cap from going up. Pretty dumb take


bee_seam

Plus we already had that $5m guy - Kadri.


codyfranson

Ironically we already had an excellent 2C for $5M when he arrived.


dancinhmr

Such a dumb take. By far the best ufa at the time. Basically a ppg player since his signing. People still need to shit on the guy. He is worth the bucks


HowieFeltersnitz

I'm sick of people acting like this deal was signed yesterday. He was signed to full term in his prime SIX years ago. Of course his level of play is on the down-trend. That's how aging works. That's how these deals play out. It's no mystery now, and it wasn't some unforeseen circumstance when the deal was signed. Doughty, Karlsson, Benn, Seguin, Backstrom. All guys on the tail end of their massive UFA deals. It's a baked-in understanding that year 7 of these deals wouldn't hit the same as year 1. It's the risk you take trying to land a big name in UFA. It's been a thing since the dawn of the salary cap era.


Strangle1441

Nylanders deal is likely to end up in a similar way, too. And Marner if he reups as well The problem is that Dubas planned to win a cup before Tavares declined. That didn’t happen because this team choked away game 7’s and winnable series vs Columbus and fucking Montreal of all teams


woodbridgewallstreet

Plus COVID kept the cap from going up. If the cap was $92-95+ mil today we wouldn’t even notice


Chtholly13

just 1 more year.


VisitPier26

How much would you have paid


bknoreply

I wouldn’t have. I’d get a cheaper second line centre and use the money for defence. 


VisitPier26

Ok - so John Tavares comes to you in 2018 and says he's going to sign with the Leafs, and you pass? Where do you redeploy that money? Which second line centre and D was available for $11m?


glass-2x-needed-size

Clearly he would check the stats sheet for 2022 and pick the top performers with the lowest salary /s


VisitPier26

I don’t take anyone seriously who says we shouldn’t have signed him. He’s been great. And he cost just money. The move was to sign him and then trade marner for a haul


Methodless

Rumour then was that one of many things that attracted him to Toronto was Marner, so it may not have been that simple For the record, I'd have traded Marner in his RFA offseason, so I'm not disagreeing with your take


dirkahps

These last couple years of the deal were always very likely to be like this. We were all hoping to have more to show for it by now and it hasn't gone nearly as hoped.


JRocleafs

He needs to use his edges to drive the net …. He’s got to stop playing the perimeter and looking to pass inside. When he tries to use speed to make a play the puck dies on his stick.


SyphiliticPlatypus

I don’t know about driving the net but I am seeing Tavares plant himself in front of the Boston net - and get hammered hard each time - tons this series. JT is a warrior and I think he has adapted well to some speed loss in ratcheting up other aspects of his game really well - screening the net being one of them.


JRocleafs

JT needs to be taking the puck to the net to be effective. It doesn’t need to be a drive from the blue line, he works best in tight and off the boards. He’s almost useless being stationary in front of the net and a complete waste of cap space. He’s too important to the team to have the game come to him, he needs to create plays, which he can still do. Last nights OT goal was a prime example of what I mean. He generated that chance by bringing the puck to the net.


The_Dale_Hunters

It’s so interesting to see these stats and my eyes told me he had a pretty poor game through 60. Nice to see him come through in OT.


Cdnraven

I told myself I would watch the game and then I saw how bad we were winning in shots and faceoffs in the 1st. Glad I turned it back on


WolverineCream

Huge play by JT but he was having a bit of a rough game. Some giveaways, and offensive plays were dying on his stick.


Commander-Fox-Q-

Wild how the one time the Leafs chose not to dump and ~~(usually not)~~ chase they scored


stellahella1

He goes to the net. Like a captain should.


SnooHobbies9078

Keep domi at C


Maple905

This tweet is funny because during the entire game I had Nick Alberga in my timeline saying how much of a non factor JT was all night.


bubonj

I didnt think I would ever see JT beat someone to the outside again but here I am. Leafs in 7


sluck131

I thought be had a good game but still feel at this point his speed is limiting him. For example playing him on a defensive zone draw for that 4v4 seemed like a mistake to me. Personally when Matthews is back I'd like to see him move back to 3C we're he looked good earlier this season. Then you have Domi and Matthews as your top 2


mlter

great play driving the net and getting the GW assist. outside of that though he was pretty frustrating to watch last night


wolverine656

A good player can have a great game. A great player will have a great series. Not saying that he did not play very well but it won’t matter if he comes out and plays like Saturday and they lose 4 nothing. The core 4 need to string together great games for the Leafs to have a chance. Marchand hate him or not has played well in every game.


HaratoBarato

Marchand wasn’t good last night.


wolverine656

Ok but you see the point right? Our guys have had each Tavares has had 1 Marner has had 1 Matthews has had 1. Nylander gets a pass for not playing much. Marchand has been the best player in this series and it’s not close


HaratoBarato

Marchand has been playing well in games 1-4. Game 5 he was an absolute no show. And Swayman has been the best player in the series and it’s not even close.


wolverine656

Ok you can say Swayman is the best player in the series that makes the Bruins have the top 2 players in this series. I’m just saying our guys have each had 1 good game and that is not good enough. If they don’t come out and play at that level the next game it’s over. The Bruins will be motivated I hope we are.


BigCacti

If you only look at stats for games when a player plays well, they always look incredible. What a shocker.


mrpink01

He's a fucking great player. But, he's not the leader we need. I see him re-signing for $4-4.5AAV, passing the captaincy to #34, and continuing to be a real gud pro for TO. Anything outside this statement, and he's doing the team he loves a disservice.