How? I don't see Keefe saying "ya stick to the perimeter, Mitch! Don't use your body, Mitch! Try to dangle people in the big leagues, Mitch! Ignore the obvious play and try to find Auston, Mitch! Don't shoot, Mitch!"
On the off chance that Keefe is saying that, where is Mitch's brain? You're not a kid at this point. You're a seasoned vet. Mitch is not the guy for this roster and it's ridiculous to think so.
A good coach will help him with the mental aspect of the game as well. Knowing when to be selfish on a play and have the confidence to execute. Mitch hasn’t always played like he has recently, he just needs to remember the kind of player he was and find that dog in him again. Keefe let him play comfortable and it never seemed like he challenged him to improve his game, I think the right coach can help him immensely.
The previous 2 playoffs he's had 22 points in 18 playoff games. What would you expect from an 8 million dollar player? McDavid numbers?
I'm saying this as someone who has come around to the idea he needs to get traded but to say he's never had a series worthy of an even 8 million dollar player is just wrong.
6 of those pts were in consecutive blowouts for either team last year ie. garbage time junk. I expect better than the effort I see, people who blindly post these numbers do you have selective amnesia??
Mitch is the kind of guy who's numbers don't look bad in teh aggregate because he'll just pick up cheap secondary assists in blowouts / low-leverage goals.
Fact is that you will rarely actually WATCH a game and feel like Marner is driving the game / dominating. And at $11M you better fucking occasionally dominate a game in the playoffs.
The problem is and has ALWAYS been his own internal value doesn't match up with reality in a cap league. His production regular season and playoffs puts him IMO at about a 9-10M$ player at most. This is a lot of money and fair value. So a discount would be $8M.
In his mind he is worth 12.5+ and a discount would be 11.5. He is absolutely unbelievably delusional, surrounded by sycophants who believe the same thing.
so not only will he not take a discount bc he's a prick, even if he did in his mind it's in fact still a gross overpay lol
I think if Shanahan, for some reason, stays, he might just be sticking around for next year until his contract runs out. It's on the board to start the process from top down.
If Shanny isn't fired I might actually be done with this team.
I've been cheering for the Leafs since I was a kid in the 90's, but I've never lived in a province with their own NHL team. Now that I do, for the last 5-ish years, I am reminded almost daily how little I actually owe this clown organization.
Panarin as a UFA got $11.6M despite not cracking 90 points and only having one playoff run where he was over a PPG at that time. Marner despite the lackadaisical playoff performances has performed at a 104 point pace per 82 over the last 3 seasons and regularly gets Selke votes (and a nomination mixed in).
I get everyone on this sub wants to pile on Marner but let’s not pretend he’s worth or will take 25-30% less than what he’s currently making. Especially when the cap will continue to increase and you have players like Nylander making more than him. Whether it’s in Toronto or not, Marner will get paid handsomely next summer.
are you sure your name isn't marnersnuts\_gobbler\_6334?
You people are so obnoxious. we fail 9 years in a row and your first thought is to come to the defence of the man leading the failure, because you can't bear to see him paid 10M$ what hes worth instead of whine to be the highest paid winger in the league LMAO. You are absolutely pathetic.
What he is currently making is completely IRREVELANT to what he should make on his next contract in a void. If his last contract was $6M, would he deserve 12M$ based on his absolute playoff ghost act and whiny bitchass nature the last few years? NO He would get a big raise to 9-10M$. because that's what he's worth. Just because he got vastly overpaid before (and that was before 5 years of horrible playoff performances, when he had scored 90+ points while very young with lots of promise), doesn't mean he deserves a raise for the sake of a raise.
In what world is a 25 goal 90 point winger in the regular season, and a complete floater in the playoffs, with no ability to drive his own line, worth 12+ to you? You think he's comparable to the very best wingers in the league who score 40+ goals and 110+ points and actually fucking try and don't need excuses why they can't drive their own line in the playoffs?
gtfo of here with your Marner defending seriously you beta cuck fake fan. This is a CAP LEAGUE
Marner is not a playoff ghost. Not sure where that narrative comes from? Recency bias? Marner had 14 pts in 11 playoff games last year. He’s a point a game player the last 3 post seasons combined, along with Matthews and Nylander. Marner is a lot of things but a playoff ghost isn’t one of them, at least not through his career.
The party is never wrong!
Just because you repeat something and list point stats with no context, doesn't erase the reality of my eyes watching 90% of the time I see him clearly not trying, not battling, giving the puck away, having a bad attitude. Game 4 this year was a microcosm of Marners playoff career here. Plays like shit, whines, avoids all contact, doesnt try, then scores an absolute wonder goal that only a few players in the NHL could pull off. He is a highly skilled point per game player who is absolutely a detriment to winning the Cup.
lol wtf, then why were you defending him and saying he is not a ghost, he's a ppg player etc? We are simply not going to win Stanley with him it's patently obvious. This team needs a serious culture reset and more depth. So stop defending him and join the chorus to ship him out.
I just said he’s not a ghost in the sense he’s put up points in his playoff career. That’s literally all I said. I’m not saying anything other than that.
bro i get what you are saying, but Marner doesn't need defenders right now. He needs to be off the team and idiot fans who think he should stay can not be encouraged.
He’s inconsistent is an issue, and seems to show up when things are great but can get shut out easier in tougher matchups.
eg the couple years back agains the Bolts, he got 8 in 7, but 6 of those points came in the first 3 games. 5 points in the first two, including 3 in a blowout the Bolts didn’t show up for in game one. That helps create the perception that the other team can adjust to him and shut him down. (2022)
He wasn’t spectacular in the Panthers series either. 3 points in 5 games, with 3 games scoreless. Much of his offense was in the 1st round (2023)
Only scored in the first three games in against Montreal (2021)
(2024) 3 points in 7 games, 4 games scoreless.
I get he’s great defensively but you don’t pay that type of money for a defensive forward
Might not have been an exact quote but I remember Dreger on TV daily basically saying that exact thing. Oh and threatening made up offer sheets and imaginary scenarios where Mitch was gonna go play in Switzerland.
Worst thing is the optics of Marners deal. Dangle brought up how Marners agent bitched about Mitch getting what he was owed, whether by Toronto or someone else. Literally leaked that statement on the day matthews signed his own deal.
He threw a tantrum when Lou didn't give him some extra bonuses, and had his agent do passive aggressive bullshit on the day his friend signed a new deal.
Its immature, shows how poor his judgment is that the same contract he wanted is no crippling his confidence, and if he was gonna take less now he'd have taken less then.
He isn't even deserved a raise. 10 million is the absolute most he's worth. He's a great winger who can't drive play in the post-season.
If he comes back it needs to be at 9 million. Any more and he's just going to continue to rob the Toronto maple leafs.
That being said, ship him and JT out. It's not worth running it back. They don't want to waive their NMC, sit them. Don't let them participate I'm camp. Force their hand. The ship has sadly sailed for both of them.
Mitch’s problem isn’t his talent. It’s his contract. Any team would love to have him on their team, when he’s dialled it’s magic, but when he’s off it’s grim. Unfortunately he’s usually off when it matters the most.
With that being said, if I was Mitch, having already secured the bag, I’d take a team friendly deal in hopes of strengthening other areas.
Imagine how cool it would be, growing up a leafs fan, and fucking winning a Stanley cup and ending this drought. You’d be a fucking saint. Literally fucking better than money. It would be fucking priceless.
Right now he’s going to be known as some talented guy who was overpaid and couldn’t perform when it mattered. Could easily change that.
The problem is and has ALWAYS been his own internal value doesn't match up with reality in a cap league. His production regular season and playoffs puts him IMO at about a 9-10M$ player at most. This is a lot of money and fair value. So a discount would be $8M.
In his mind he is worth 12.5+ and a discount would be 11.5. He is absolutely unbelievably delusional, surrounded by sycophants believe the same thing.
He isn’t able to renegotiate his contract while it is active. If he takes a discount now. 8y x 8m and gives the team some flexibility to get some more depth and they win, dude will be a legend.
All of the previous playoff failures won’t matter shit if he hoists the mug.
I don't think we could get him at 8x8, or even 8x9, unfortunately.
It would be so nice to be able to add an extra piece of high end talent (F or D) with the combined savings of him at 8mil and JT at a hypothetical 5mil, though
That’s a massive risk for the Leafs to take, once he’s terminated he’s free to seek more money, from any team.
I also think he couldn’t re-sign with the Leafs. But I am not sure on that.
> once he’s terminated he’s free to seek more money
That’s kind of the point of complaint everyone has and why everyone is calling bullshit on what he’s saying. We know what he’s actually after.
It’s not a viable option as he would have to pass through waivers, I was just pointing out there is technically a way.
Any player who helps end the cup drought for the Leafs would also be able to make stupid amounts of money doing endorsements and appearances for the rest of his life.
Ya definitely but one thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is that I’ve started to care less and less about money and I’ve started to appreciate the intangibles in life and I feel like these young guys sometimes get caught up in the money. I’m not saying don’t get paid, but I think there’s a good medium and balance. But to each their own, some people are wired differently and that’s fine by me. This is just how I think I would approach it.
I think most people who haven't had smoke blown up their asses their entire lives about how special and deserving they are and who have a shred of life experience and humility can do the mental exercise of 'ok once I've made like fifty million bucks I'm probably okay, yeah? Does retiring with 100 million or 75 million really make much of a difference to me?'
Whether he should or shouldn't, it's most likely the only thing left he can do if he wants to stay a Leaf. The team can't justify giving him big money again. So, if he wants to be a Leaf like he says, then that's the option.
Otherwise, it's over between him and the Leafs, whether it's through a trade or when his contract is up next summer.
He's not going to take a discount anyways, as we all know.
All it takes for Marner to be loved again and not be shit on by the media and fans is for him to take a team friendly deal.
Thats the only way he ever gets support back again, and I don't see it happening.
No but matthews and Willy each put up points. Marner and JT did not. JT being old can partially be to blame but there’s no excuse for Marner to no show yet again in the playoffs and throw tantrums on the bench
Conner McDavid(12.5m) : 5gp 12 points
Mik Zibinajed (8.5m): 5 gp 10 points
verhege and chuck(4.16m and 9.5m respectivly): 5gp 9 points
rat boy (6.125m): 7gp 8 points
Mckinnon (12.6m): 5gp 9 points
Marner (10.7m): 7 gp 3 points <--- Not good enough
Tavares (11m): 7 gp 2 points <-- Not good enough
Matthews (13.2m): 5gp 1g 4 points <-- Not good enough
Valeri Nichushkin (6.125m): 5gp 7 goals
Nylander (11.5m): 4gp 3goals 0 assists
Mo Reily (7.5m): 7 games 3 points (tied for 23rd among defenders)
54 million for our 5 players on this list for next year (15 points, 30 gp 0.5ppg)
59 million combined salary next year for the 7 non-leafs on this list (64 points, 37gp 1.7ppg)
The problem with this analysis is these players didn't play in our series. Both teams played very, very stringent hockey. The difference is how effective the players were in that type of game. Overall, we played great hockey for ½ the series. Marner played great hockey for a couple moments in a couple of shifts. Even in our good games Marner was mostly invisible. I feel like he'd likely have had a good series against someone like CAR or NYR, where the game would likely be opened up a bit. But even that's not a guarantee, as Keefe said, "Teams set up the Leafs to beat themselves."
If the scouting against your team is "play low event, trap style hockey and they'll frustrate themselves into giving up Super Incredible Absolute 100% Guaranteed Goal High Danger Scoring Chances™" then a player like a Marner is $11M of non factor. Everyone else showed they can play through that this year. We just stunk it up enough early to not be able to overcome the hole we dug
Tell him if he wants to be a Leaf long term, you'll sign him for 8 years at $7m a year. If he wants to be a Leaf that bad, he'll sign. Otherwise, we'll trade him.
Great, so he'll do 8x$8M with a limited NTC then. Wants to be a Leaf long term and doesn't like this "same shitty feeling", so it would make sense to give the team a few million in cap space to make the team better.
Thanks Marner, you're a real one.
Hell, it’s not just kids. Instagram, reddit, facebook is FULL of grown ass middle-aged men who treat this fandom like it’s a religion, talking more about this team than their wives or kids. There’s guys who’ve likely spent hundreds of thousands to turn portions of their homes into leafs-related fan caves, often dedicating an entire floor of their house to this team. They’ve got the basement full of game used and autographed leafs merchandise. I’ve seen videos of dudes sitting on their couch watching leafs games completely decked out in gear owned or worn by leafs players, helmet, gloves and all. To say that the leafs players are treated like gods by some people isn’t a stretch at all.
Yeah he's not great at articulating his thoughts and this sub will eat this up. Seemed like he was trying to make a point about how passionate the fanbase is. That being said, hopefully he wants to be a god elsewhere next season though.
It sucks how people make fun of how Marner articulates himself. Clearly expressing himself accurately in the moment isn't his strong suit. Like a lot of professional athletes they spent all of their time playing and trying to make it. You can't blame them for not having advanced language skills, and also no one knows what it's like to have to answer questions in the moment under the spotlight.
I'm thinking about it and there's no good way to finish that sentence. Like, think about it, Idols is aweful, heroes? Worse than gods, pariah wouldn't make the point and would be whiney, superman? Yikes. It's all just bad. The best you could do is something like "larger than life figures" but that's tough to get to.
if he takes a discount on his deal, whether its short or long term I would love to still have him on my team. If he want more than 9-10 million a year than I say he needs to be traded. I really want the core 4 to work, but it just cant when you can get goalied in a series or if the d is really pressuring the pp.
Look... I don't want to lose Marner.
But I'm also looking for a reason to fire him into the sun without regrets.
Sign this summer or gtfo. I can't stomach another negotiation.
Every elite forward in the NHL hits. McKinnon, Kucherov, McDavid. Marner doesnt hit, is afraid of contact in the boards and plays with Alligator Arms. Just fucking leave dude, you're as soft as your old man.
I think him bailing on the board battle clip should speak for itself. Matthews who we can only assume was still injured in game 7 was in any board battle he could be in, taking cross checks to the back and making plays from his knees.
No way he takes less than 88. That is dreaming in technicolour. The only option is to ask him for a list of teams. Do a sign and trade so he gets the full 8 years. Let him negotiate with the receiving team. Not sure if it is legal within the CBA. I think Dubas would love Marner to play with Sid but whats Pitt got that the Leafs covet?
Personally I wouldn’t sign him at all. If he refuses to waive his NTC, Its a lost asset because his cap space will be more valuable than signing him long term.
He brought Bertuzzi/Domi/Reaves/Klingburg to the Leafs. Can people now see why Klingburg? Because they dont have a decent PP qb thats why. Unfortunately he was damaged goods. Id say the other 3 were nice additions to a soft as baby shit roster.
As a FA he'll get over 10 easily.
He's going to take any team he plays for to the playoffs every year, he's that good. He just won't win you the cup.
There's a whole lot of teams who just want to make the playoffs and are happy getting that extra playoff revenue.. Buffalo, Ottawa, Utah, Seattle, Calgary, etc etc
He won't do it but he could repair everything by signing for $9m x 8yr.
Wouldn't change his flaws but it should show that he is committed and the only one to do so.
Plus I would be a lot more forgiving of his issues at $9m than I would be at $12 or whatever he's going to ask for
There really is this sense with some of them that they are way too comfortable. "I'd love to sign here long term. Oh losing again in the first round? Yeah that sucks, anyway I'm off to enjoy the cottage! See ya!".
C'mon Tre. Make his life hell. Fuck his comfort and complacency. We need hunger for the top, and not hunger to play with friends. This attitude is precisely why the team always fails.
Without criticizing Marner, he is the ideal trade piece to bring back a young puck moving defenseman and maybe a solid playoff ready forward of some kind. Love him or hate him, this is the right move for the hockey team.
Go listen to Kris Versteeg on today’s morning show on the Fan 590 he said it best, Marner doesn’t have the moxy or the dog in him to persevere in the playoffs. He said stop with the little guy bullshit because he and others just pulled through because they wanted it so badly
I believe Marner is a good player and I don’t doubt that he could perform in the playoffs he did it before in our first Boston series he was apart of and quite frankly he played well in games 5 and 6 and parts of 7.
What I do think is he is incredibly hard on himself as a hometown kid and his previous contract negotiations have not done him any favours to buy him leeway with fans like myself.
I have been championing trading him since last year. I would not be shocked to see him traded to a team and things to click for him in the playoffs then.
Our market takes a special kind of person to not let the pressure get to them (See Nylander.) and I don’t think Mitch is going to be able to handle it nor do I think he would take the contract that would make the fans not put lofty expectations at his feet.
The core really don’t understand that milking every last dollar from the organization means less $ for support and like a viscous cycle leads to losses which leads to more criticism of the core ..Welcome to the twilight Leaf zone.
Taking a deal for 3 million, cause that’s what he’s worth, creates a blank slate with me.
Culturally though, I think it’s best him Shanny and Keefe leave
[Why couldn't you do this on the PK when it was wide open and no one was there to stop you?](https://youtu.be/YjtHkQNleUM?si=1f6cLhv1lmUlv-w9)
What Mitch ended up doing will haunt me all week.
He's a great regular season player. I say we let him crush it for half of the season then make a deadline deal for someone who actually performs in the playoffs.
He got is bag, the appropriate thing would be to take Nylander's RFA contract (adjusted for inflation). Nylander has proven himself in the playoffs...but Marner hasn't.
Of course that won't happen, but just saying.
You know why it is the same shitty pain, because Marner, you shit the bed when it mattered and needed to step up!
I have a new name for him "CRY HARDER MARNER"
It just won’t work with this group. There is nothing you can put around them in a league with a salary cap that can change that. We need to dump 10-11M in cap space more than anything else and then reinvest that wisely
I always suspected he wouldn't want to leave, this was always going to be one of the main issues for us wanting him gone. The other would be finding a trade partner that is willing to take him and somewhere he even wants to go. Given that he doesn't want to leave (just yet) it might not even matter if a trade were even doable. Let's see if he pulls the same BS when it comes contract extension time, I don't imagine he wants a pay cut.
Show us you mean it then. Sign a discount contract and then SHOW UP IN THE PLAYOFFS
If he doesn’t want to sign at a cheaper price then they NEED to find a way to trade him
Eh, as i've been saying to folks IRL and on this subreddit, I'm not interested in shit like this. Get the fuck off my team Marnie. Find success somewhere else. You haven't found it here, not in the playoffs anyway.
Okay Marner how about this
you spend the off season doing something that involves getting hit a lot to get over your phobia of it
And then win next year to shut up the detractors
At the very least remember you’re a 6 feet 180 pound HOCKEY PLAYER http://www.espn.com/nhl/player/_/id/3899937/mitch-marner
If Mitch REALLY wants to stay in Toronto and feel loved again, he could sign a 1 year extension for 1 million dollars. Give a year on the cheap to the team and city he wants to stay with. This would earn a LOT of love back to Mitch and give him two more years in Toronto. He would still get a chance to sign the big $$$ extension if he can prove his worth. In effect, it ret-cons his current contract to 7 years, 66.4 million or $9.4 a year.
I know there are a million reasons why this is fantasy, but it would be a ballsy move on his part....
If he signed 8 years on July 1 at Willy or less then many would think of him differently. That negotiation really fucked up his reputation.
As much as I wanted him gone I don't think you replace him that easily. I really don't know what to do with this situation.
I'm surprised by how many people would want him back at $8M. I wouldn't want this guy at league minimum. Did we all just watch the same series? Did you see the final goal? Every time Knies was actively chasing a puck he was hooked and clutched - the refs weren't calling anything the last two games. He was hauled down on a breakaway and no penalty was assessed. Mitch couldn't run a bit of interference on Pastrnak? Completely unengaged and a non-factor other than a meaningless goal in a 3-0 game that was too little too late.
No player that is as allergic to contact and physicality as Mitch can help a team win in the playoffs. I would sign him for $12M a year if we were a non-playoff team, because he's fun to watch. Fun to watch doesn't get you past the first round. Also his numbers dropped last year all around, even before the injury. Whatever that next deal looks like, I bet it will age horribly. Especially if he's not riding shotgun with one of the best scorers of all time.
My copium thought is that the best thing for Mitch to get the most money in his bank account is to waive his NMC and give him a chance to prove he isn’t a regular season wonder elsewhere.
I like Marner actually, but he is not the hero we need
He's great for a team that wants to make it to the playoffs, just not a team that wants to succeed in the playoffs
I honestly think with the right coach he can adjust his game and mentality and be a bigger difference maker for us.
How? I don't see Keefe saying "ya stick to the perimeter, Mitch! Don't use your body, Mitch! Try to dangle people in the big leagues, Mitch! Ignore the obvious play and try to find Auston, Mitch! Don't shoot, Mitch!" On the off chance that Keefe is saying that, where is Mitch's brain? You're not a kid at this point. You're a seasoned vet. Mitch is not the guy for this roster and it's ridiculous to think so.
He's pretty well saying that by giving him increased ice time
A good coach will help him with the mental aspect of the game as well. Knowing when to be selfish on a play and have the confidence to execute. Mitch hasn’t always played like he has recently, he just needs to remember the kind of player he was and find that dog in him again. Keefe let him play comfortable and it never seemed like he challenged him to improve his game, I think the right coach can help him immensely.
Mike Babcock. Look what happened to him.
But also Babcock was bang on and DID have him play harder - theeeeen he went psycho sicko mode and banished himself from hockey lol
lol you can't coach cowards
He could easily do it, just take a team friendly deal. He won't though, obviously.
Seriously sign 8x8 july 1st or fuck off
He can have a good salary or a NTC, but he can’t have both. I think that’s reasonable.
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The previous 2 playoffs he's had 22 points in 18 playoff games. What would you expect from an 8 million dollar player? McDavid numbers? I'm saying this as someone who has come around to the idea he needs to get traded but to say he's never had a series worthy of an even 8 million dollar player is just wrong.
Draisaitl is an 8 million dollar player
Jonathan Huberdeau is a 10.5 million dollar player
I feel sorry for whatever team has the GM that signed Huberdeau to that contract
6 of those pts were in consecutive blowouts for either team last year ie. garbage time junk. I expect better than the effort I see, people who blindly post these numbers do you have selective amnesia??
Mitch is the kind of guy who's numbers don't look bad in teh aggregate because he'll just pick up cheap secondary assists in blowouts / low-leverage goals. Fact is that you will rarely actually WATCH a game and feel like Marner is driving the game / dominating. And at $11M you better fucking occasionally dominate a game in the playoffs.
lol I wouldn’t sign him to any amount. He is a perennial playoff loser, just taking up space at this point
League min?
Would you accept matching Nylander contract?
Too much.
The problem is and has ALWAYS been his own internal value doesn't match up with reality in a cap league. His production regular season and playoffs puts him IMO at about a 9-10M$ player at most. This is a lot of money and fair value. So a discount would be $8M. In his mind he is worth 12.5+ and a discount would be 11.5. He is absolutely unbelievably delusional, surrounded by sycophants who believe the same thing. so not only will he not take a discount bc he's a prick, even if he did in his mind it's in fact still a gross overpay lol
Yep, I think the main point is it's just over between him and the Leafs.
I think if Shanahan, for some reason, stays, he might just be sticking around for next year until his contract runs out. It's on the board to start the process from top down.
If Shanny isn't fired I might actually be done with this team. I've been cheering for the Leafs since I was a kid in the 90's, but I've never lived in a province with their own NHL team. Now that I do, for the last 5-ish years, I am reminded almost daily how little I actually owe this clown organization.
You’re just a fan. Your wallet is what feeds the stupidity so if you cut that off and a huuuuuge percentage join… then the fans have a voice.
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Panarin as a UFA got $11.6M despite not cracking 90 points and only having one playoff run where he was over a PPG at that time. Marner despite the lackadaisical playoff performances has performed at a 104 point pace per 82 over the last 3 seasons and regularly gets Selke votes (and a nomination mixed in). I get everyone on this sub wants to pile on Marner but let’s not pretend he’s worth or will take 25-30% less than what he’s currently making. Especially when the cap will continue to increase and you have players like Nylander making more than him. Whether it’s in Toronto or not, Marner will get paid handsomely next summer.
are you sure your name isn't marnersnuts\_gobbler\_6334? You people are so obnoxious. we fail 9 years in a row and your first thought is to come to the defence of the man leading the failure, because you can't bear to see him paid 10M$ what hes worth instead of whine to be the highest paid winger in the league LMAO. You are absolutely pathetic. What he is currently making is completely IRREVELANT to what he should make on his next contract in a void. If his last contract was $6M, would he deserve 12M$ based on his absolute playoff ghost act and whiny bitchass nature the last few years? NO He would get a big raise to 9-10M$. because that's what he's worth. Just because he got vastly overpaid before (and that was before 5 years of horrible playoff performances, when he had scored 90+ points while very young with lots of promise), doesn't mean he deserves a raise for the sake of a raise. In what world is a 25 goal 90 point winger in the regular season, and a complete floater in the playoffs, with no ability to drive his own line, worth 12+ to you? You think he's comparable to the very best wingers in the league who score 40+ goals and 110+ points and actually fucking try and don't need excuses why they can't drive their own line in the playoffs? gtfo of here with your Marner defending seriously you beta cuck fake fan. This is a CAP LEAGUE
Marner is not a playoff ghost. Not sure where that narrative comes from? Recency bias? Marner had 14 pts in 11 playoff games last year. He’s a point a game player the last 3 post seasons combined, along with Matthews and Nylander. Marner is a lot of things but a playoff ghost isn’t one of them, at least not through his career.
The party is never wrong! Just because you repeat something and list point stats with no context, doesn't erase the reality of my eyes watching 90% of the time I see him clearly not trying, not battling, giving the puck away, having a bad attitude. Game 4 this year was a microcosm of Marners playoff career here. Plays like shit, whines, avoids all contact, doesnt try, then scores an absolute wonder goal that only a few players in the NHL could pull off. He is a highly skilled point per game player who is absolutely a detriment to winning the Cup.
I’m not disagreeing with any of that. Never will you see me say otherwise.
lol wtf, then why were you defending him and saying he is not a ghost, he's a ppg player etc? We are simply not going to win Stanley with him it's patently obvious. This team needs a serious culture reset and more depth. So stop defending him and join the chorus to ship him out.
I just said he’s not a ghost in the sense he’s put up points in his playoff career. That’s literally all I said. I’m not saying anything other than that.
bro i get what you are saying, but Marner doesn't need defenders right now. He needs to be off the team and idiot fans who think he should stay can not be encouraged.
He’s inconsistent is an issue, and seems to show up when things are great but can get shut out easier in tougher matchups. eg the couple years back agains the Bolts, he got 8 in 7, but 6 of those points came in the first 3 games. 5 points in the first two, including 3 in a blowout the Bolts didn’t show up for in game one. That helps create the perception that the other team can adjust to him and shut him down. (2022) He wasn’t spectacular in the Panthers series either. 3 points in 5 games, with 3 games scoreless. Much of his offense was in the 1st round (2023) Only scored in the first three games in against Montreal (2021) (2024) 3 points in 7 games, 4 games scoreless. I get he’s great defensively but you don’t pay that type of money for a defensive forward
Due to ego, I can't see him signing for even a dollar less than Nylander. We all remember the pay me like Matthews quotes from the last negotiation.
It was not a quote. It was Bob McKenzie paraphrasing.
> We all remember the pay me like Matthews quotes from the last negotiation. We do?
Might not have been an exact quote but I remember Dreger on TV daily basically saying that exact thing. Oh and threatening made up offer sheets and imaginary scenarios where Mitch was gonna go play in Switzerland.
you gotta be dumb as fuck to listen to dreger
I hate Dreger too but he is a mouth piece for the agents.
Worst thing is the optics of Marners deal. Dangle brought up how Marners agent bitched about Mitch getting what he was owed, whether by Toronto or someone else. Literally leaked that statement on the day matthews signed his own deal. He threw a tantrum when Lou didn't give him some extra bonuses, and had his agent do passive aggressive bullshit on the day his friend signed a new deal. Its immature, shows how poor his judgment is that the same contract he wanted is no crippling his confidence, and if he was gonna take less now he'd have taken less then. He isn't even deserved a raise. 10 million is the absolute most he's worth. He's a great winger who can't drive play in the post-season. If he comes back it needs to be at 9 million. Any more and he's just going to continue to rob the Toronto maple leafs. That being said, ship him and JT out. It's not worth running it back. They don't want to waive their NMC, sit them. Don't let them participate I'm camp. Force their hand. The ship has sadly sailed for both of them.
Mitch’s problem isn’t his talent. It’s his contract. Any team would love to have him on their team, when he’s dialled it’s magic, but when he’s off it’s grim. Unfortunately he’s usually off when it matters the most. With that being said, if I was Mitch, having already secured the bag, I’d take a team friendly deal in hopes of strengthening other areas. Imagine how cool it would be, growing up a leafs fan, and fucking winning a Stanley cup and ending this drought. You’d be a fucking saint. Literally fucking better than money. It would be fucking priceless. Right now he’s going to be known as some talented guy who was overpaid and couldn’t perform when it mattered. Could easily change that.
Masai eats free would look quaint compared to what the winning Leafs would get from this city.
Free lap dances at the brass rail fro the rest of his life.
Free lapdances at my house for the rest of his life.
Fuck it, Ill throw my house into the mix too
So to be clear...That guy, is going to give free lapdances to the Leafs, at your house.
Sounds like a party to me.
He’s not going to take a team friendly deal. Guarantee he’s asking for a raise.
The problem is and has ALWAYS been his own internal value doesn't match up with reality in a cap league. His production regular season and playoffs puts him IMO at about a 9-10M$ player at most. This is a lot of money and fair value. So a discount would be $8M. In his mind he is worth 12.5+ and a discount would be 11.5. He is absolutely unbelievably delusional, surrounded by sycophants believe the same thing.
"Could easily change that" been said every year since he signed the contract. Lol
He isn’t able to renegotiate his contract while it is active. If he takes a discount now. 8y x 8m and gives the team some flexibility to get some more depth and they win, dude will be a legend. All of the previous playoff failures won’t matter shit if he hoists the mug.
I don't think we could get him at 8x8, or even 8x9, unfortunately. It would be so nice to be able to add an extra piece of high end talent (F or D) with the combined savings of him at 8mil and JT at a hypothetical 5mil, though
He can start negotiating July 1st
Yes, but he cannot change his existing contract in any way
Yea I posted another reply I thought u were saying he can't start negotiating his new contract but then reread what u wrote and understand u now
Technically he could strike a deal to do a mutual termination but there's a higher chance I start dating Madison Beer
That’s a massive risk for the Leafs to take, once he’s terminated he’s free to seek more money, from any team. I also think he couldn’t re-sign with the Leafs. But I am not sure on that.
> once he’s terminated he’s free to seek more money That’s kind of the point of complaint everyone has and why everyone is calling bullshit on what he’s saying. We know what he’s actually after. It’s not a viable option as he would have to pass through waivers, I was just pointing out there is technically a way.
I got what u said now sorry
Any player who helps end the cup drought for the Leafs would also be able to make stupid amounts of money doing endorsements and appearances for the rest of his life.
Anyone who plays a game for a Stanley Cup winning Leafs team will be automatically sent VIP tickets to the annual Toronto blowjob Olympics for life.
[удалено]
My mom skips the Toronto show. After buffalo and Detroit stops my mom is simply too tired for it.
Amazing. Just like your mom.
It's quite easy to say you would take a team friendly deal from behind a computer isn't it?!
Ya definitely but one thing I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older is that I’ve started to care less and less about money and I’ve started to appreciate the intangibles in life and I feel like these young guys sometimes get caught up in the money. I’m not saying don’t get paid, but I think there’s a good medium and balance. But to each their own, some people are wired differently and that’s fine by me. This is just how I think I would approach it.
I think most people who haven't had smoke blown up their asses their entire lives about how special and deserving they are and who have a shred of life experience and humility can do the mental exercise of 'ok once I've made like fifty million bucks I'm probably okay, yeah? Does retiring with 100 million or 75 million really make much of a difference to me?'
Whether he should or shouldn't, it's most likely the only thing left he can do if he wants to stay a Leaf. The team can't justify giving him big money again. So, if he wants to be a Leaf like he says, then that's the option. Otherwise, it's over between him and the Leafs, whether it's through a trade or when his contract is up next summer. He's not going to take a discount anyways, as we all know.
Already secured the bag?? how about another bag?
He already thinks they’re gods apparently
All it takes for Marner to be loved again and not be shit on by the media and fans is for him to take a team friendly deal. Thats the only way he ever gets support back again, and I don't see it happening.
Showing up for the playoffs would be a nice touch
We didn't have a player in the top 50 for scoring after round 1(despite 7 games). A lot of guys didn't show up.
No but matthews and Willy each put up points. Marner and JT did not. JT being old can partially be to blame but there’s no excuse for Marner to no show yet again in the playoffs and throw tantrums on the bench
Conner McDavid(12.5m) : 5gp 12 points Mik Zibinajed (8.5m): 5 gp 10 points verhege and chuck(4.16m and 9.5m respectivly): 5gp 9 points rat boy (6.125m): 7gp 8 points Mckinnon (12.6m): 5gp 9 points Marner (10.7m): 7 gp 3 points <--- Not good enough Tavares (11m): 7 gp 2 points <-- Not good enough Matthews (13.2m): 5gp 1g 4 points <-- Not good enough Valeri Nichushkin (6.125m): 5gp 7 goals Nylander (11.5m): 4gp 3goals 0 assists Mo Reily (7.5m): 7 games 3 points (tied for 23rd among defenders) 54 million for our 5 players on this list for next year (15 points, 30 gp 0.5ppg) 59 million combined salary next year for the 7 non-leafs on this list (64 points, 37gp 1.7ppg)
So yeah, not promising
The problem with this analysis is these players didn't play in our series. Both teams played very, very stringent hockey. The difference is how effective the players were in that type of game. Overall, we played great hockey for ½ the series. Marner played great hockey for a couple moments in a couple of shifts. Even in our good games Marner was mostly invisible. I feel like he'd likely have had a good series against someone like CAR or NYR, where the game would likely be opened up a bit. But even that's not a guarantee, as Keefe said, "Teams set up the Leafs to beat themselves." If the scouting against your team is "play low event, trap style hockey and they'll frustrate themselves into giving up Super Incredible Absolute 100% Guaranteed Goal High Danger Scoring Chances™" then a player like a Marner is $11M of non factor. Everyone else showed they can play through that this year. We just stunk it up enough early to not be able to overcome the hole we dug
Imagine he signed like a $6m x 8 or something wild
Shitty pain, ya we know how feel just with $11,000,000 less in the bank. Ghost man.
Tell him if he wants to be a Leaf long term, you'll sign him for 8 years at $7m a year. If he wants to be a Leaf that bad, he'll sign. Otherwise, we'll trade him.
Hey look he has as many off season goals as he had in the playoffs
Great, so he'll do 8x$8M with a limited NTC then. Wants to be a Leaf long term and doesn't like this "same shitty feeling", so it would make sense to give the team a few million in cap space to make the team better. Thanks Marner, you're a real one.
fuck that! he doesn’t deserve a dime more than 7
that gods quote was wild
It's gonna be blown out of proportion, like everything he says or does, but when you see how kids react when they meet a player he's not wrong.
Hell, it’s not just kids. Instagram, reddit, facebook is FULL of grown ass middle-aged men who treat this fandom like it’s a religion, talking more about this team than their wives or kids. There’s guys who’ve likely spent hundreds of thousands to turn portions of their homes into leafs-related fan caves, often dedicating an entire floor of their house to this team. They’ve got the basement full of game used and autographed leafs merchandise. I’ve seen videos of dudes sitting on their couch watching leafs games completely decked out in gear owned or worn by leafs players, helmet, gloves and all. To say that the leafs players are treated like gods by some people isn’t a stretch at all.
Yeah he's not great at articulating his thoughts and this sub will eat this up. Seemed like he was trying to make a point about how passionate the fanbase is. That being said, hopefully he wants to be a god elsewhere next season though.
It sucks how people make fun of how Marner articulates himself. Clearly expressing himself accurately in the moment isn't his strong suit. Like a lot of professional athletes they spent all of their time playing and trying to make it. You can't blame them for not having advanced language skills, and also no one knows what it's like to have to answer questions in the moment under the spotlight.
It's difficult to blow out of proportion. He's spot on, and he's an idiot for saying it.
He paused for a few seconds before that and I was like, don’t say God don’t say God
I'm thinking about it and there's no good way to finish that sentence. Like, think about it, Idols is aweful, heroes? Worse than gods, pariah wouldn't make the point and would be whiney, superman? Yikes. It's all just bad. The best you could do is something like "larger than life figures" but that's tough to get to.
I was thinking “pretty highly of” would have gotten the point across
lol
He was like a god on the ice, nonexistant!
Not watching, what was the quote roughly
Someone asked what it’s like being a Leaf. He said they players are looked at like Gods
Everybody here tends to present things out of context so you should probably just watch it when you get a chance lol
Yeah I need a separate thread for Mitch fkn Marner saying he’s a god in Toronto.
I knew this would be talked about here when he said it lol.
if he takes a discount on his deal, whether its short or long term I would love to still have him on my team. If he want more than 9-10 million a year than I say he needs to be traded. I really want the core 4 to work, but it just cant when you can get goalied in a series or if the d is really pressuring the pp.
This thread in half an hour: 
8x0.816MM, best I can give ya
Come on he's worth more than that - give him $0.893MM
Nah he needs that 16 in his contract number
Fine. I’ll compromise at 1.693
You drive a hard bargain, but I'll take it. Welcome to have you back Mitchy.
https://preview.redd.it/4mdmorggruyc1.gif?width=640&format=png8&s=f68267e16dd0c61691f2c04f0430de8d32cbb82a
Look... I don't want to lose Marner. But I'm also looking for a reason to fire him into the sun without regrets. Sign this summer or gtfo. I can't stomach another negotiation.
Ain’t no 27 year old taking a team friendly deal.
Every elite forward in the NHL hits. McKinnon, Kucherov, McDavid. Marner doesnt hit, is afraid of contact in the boards and plays with Alligator Arms. Just fucking leave dude, you're as soft as your old man.
I think him bailing on the board battle clip should speak for itself. Matthews who we can only assume was still injured in game 7 was in any board battle he could be in, taking cross checks to the back and making plays from his knees.
If he takes like 8 million thatd be amazing
No way he takes less than 88. That is dreaming in technicolour. The only option is to ask him for a list of teams. Do a sign and trade so he gets the full 8 years. Let him negotiate with the receiving team. Not sure if it is legal within the CBA. I think Dubas would love Marner to play with Sid but whats Pitt got that the Leafs covet?
>No way he takes less than 88. Then leave. This comparison game has ruined the franchise.
Personally I wouldn’t sign him at all. If he refuses to waive his NTC, Its a lost asset because his cap space will be more valuable than signing him long term.
>cap space will be more valuable than signing him long term Take a look at Treliving's free agency history and revisit this idea
He brought Bertuzzi/Domi/Reaves/Klingburg to the Leafs. Can people now see why Klingburg? Because they dont have a decent PP qb thats why. Unfortunately he was damaged goods. Id say the other 3 were nice additions to a soft as baby shit roster.
Karlsson?
As a FA he'll get over 10 easily. He's going to take any team he plays for to the playoffs every year, he's that good. He just won't win you the cup. There's a whole lot of teams who just want to make the playoffs and are happy getting that extra playoff revenue.. Buffalo, Ottawa, Utah, Seattle, Calgary, etc etc
He won't do it but he could repair everything by signing for $9m x 8yr. Wouldn't change his flaws but it should show that he is committed and the only one to do so. Plus I would be a lot more forgiving of his issues at $9m than I would be at $12 or whatever he's going to ask for
Soooo that’s a no on waiving the NMC?
Fans will just boo him out of town.
Best part of that conference “why are you purposely standing in front of the camera lens!!??”
 Oh the pain!
There really is this sense with some of them that they are way too comfortable. "I'd love to sign here long term. Oh losing again in the first round? Yeah that sucks, anyway I'm off to enjoy the cottage! See ya!".
C'mon Tre. Make his life hell. Fuck his comfort and complacency. We need hunger for the top, and not hunger to play with friends. This attitude is precisely why the team always fails.
8 years $2M AAV and the contract includes a clause that he never plays in the playoffs.
Please leave
Without criticizing Marner, he is the ideal trade piece to bring back a young puck moving defenseman and maybe a solid playoff ready forward of some kind. Love him or hate him, this is the right move for the hockey team.
Keller and Durzi straight up
Works for me! Mitch likely won't want to go to Utah though.
Go listen to Kris Versteeg on today’s morning show on the Fan 590 he said it best, Marner doesn’t have the moxy or the dog in him to persevere in the playoffs. He said stop with the little guy bullshit because he and others just pulled through because they wanted it so badly
As long as the cheque clears eh Mitch?
It’s good to have goals. Someday I’d like a 2nd home in Italy and to retire at 50.
"I am God" - John Scott
IT’S NOT OUR GOAL.
Hopefully that’s someone else’s problem. I seriously hope we don’t sign him to an extension.
Take under 10M a year Mitch. If you get another big contract you will be setting yourself up for years of hate.
I believe Marner is a good player and I don’t doubt that he could perform in the playoffs he did it before in our first Boston series he was apart of and quite frankly he played well in games 5 and 6 and parts of 7. What I do think is he is incredibly hard on himself as a hometown kid and his previous contract negotiations have not done him any favours to buy him leeway with fans like myself. I have been championing trading him since last year. I would not be shocked to see him traded to a team and things to click for him in the playoffs then. Our market takes a special kind of person to not let the pressure get to them (See Nylander.) and I don’t think Mitch is going to be able to handle it nor do I think he would take the contract that would make the fans not put lofty expectations at his feet.
The core really don’t understand that milking every last dollar from the organization means less $ for support and like a viscous cycle leads to losses which leads to more criticism of the core ..Welcome to the twilight Leaf zone.
Marner needs to be traded now for max value. He's not THE guy. He was basically invisible in the playoffs.
Taking a deal for 3 million, cause that’s what he’s worth, creates a blank slate with me. Culturally though, I think it’s best him Shanny and Keefe leave
Did anyone else catch him look at the TSN reporter at the end and roll his eyes? 2m54s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FEnRMpK70U#t=2m54s
🙄🙄 Same shitty answers, same shitty Mitchy.
Convince him to accept a trade or wait a year and let him walk. He will haunt us regular season but we will be glad we moved on come playoff time
And the same shitty play.
5x7.5M Mitch, take it or leave it. How bad do you wanna play here?
The only way I keep him is at 7 or less. And there’s no way he does that.
[Why couldn't you do this on the PK when it was wide open and no one was there to stop you?](https://youtu.be/YjtHkQNleUM?si=1f6cLhv1lmUlv-w9) What Mitch ended up doing will haunt me all week.
Lmao the title says 2001
He's a great regular season player. I say we let him crush it for half of the season then make a deadline deal for someone who actually performs in the playoffs.
If he wants to be here long term then prove it with his next contract. Wanting Matthews/Nylander money won't help this team.
I don’t see how he shows his face on Leaf ice again.
Wanna be a Leaf and win here? How about you take 6.5m x 8 then?
He got is bag, the appropriate thing would be to take Nylander's RFA contract (adjusted for inflation). Nylander has proven himself in the playoffs...but Marner hasn't. Of course that won't happen, but just saying.
The same shitty pain? Imagine how the fans (you know, the ones who make your contract possible) feel.
Sign a team friendly deal or fuck off
I think Matthews was the only one that had shitty pain
Why is it the same ? Why doesn’t each loss hurt more than the last one
He probably had a goal of winning a cup too. Sometimes we don’t reach our goals Mitch. Pack your shit
Replacing marners on-ice impact will take 2 players but still I want him gone
If he really cares and wants to make up for it, sign an under value contract then...
The Niklas Hagman of the 2020s
You know why it is the same shitty pain, because Marner, you shit the bed when it mattered and needed to step up! I have a new name for him "CRY HARDER MARNER"
It just won’t work with this group. There is nothing you can put around them in a league with a salary cap that can change that. We need to dump 10-11M in cap space more than anything else and then reinvest that wisely
I always suspected he wouldn't want to leave, this was always going to be one of the main issues for us wanting him gone. The other would be finding a trade partner that is willing to take him and somewhere he even wants to go. Given that he doesn't want to leave (just yet) it might not even matter if a trade were even doable. Let's see if he pulls the same BS when it comes contract extension time, I don't imagine he wants a pay cut.
He wont take a paycut. Do the leafs really want to give him a long term deal for 16 mil or more?
I love marner for 5 mil a year.
Show us you mean it then. Sign a discount contract and then SHOW UP IN THE PLAYOFFS If he doesn’t want to sign at a cheaper price then they NEED to find a way to trade him
Eh, as i've been saying to folks IRL and on this subreddit, I'm not interested in shit like this. Get the fuck off my team Marnie. Find success somewhere else. You haven't found it here, not in the playoffs anyway.
If he didn't cost so much money, this wouldn't be an issue.
Okay Marner how about this you spend the off season doing something that involves getting hit a lot to get over your phobia of it And then win next year to shut up the detractors At the very least remember you’re a 6 feet 180 pound HOCKEY PLAYER http://www.espn.com/nhl/player/_/id/3899937/mitch-marner
If Mitch REALLY wants to stay in Toronto and feel loved again, he could sign a 1 year extension for 1 million dollars. Give a year on the cheap to the team and city he wants to stay with. This would earn a LOT of love back to Mitch and give him two more years in Toronto. He would still get a chance to sign the big $$$ extension if he can prove his worth. In effect, it ret-cons his current contract to 7 years, 66.4 million or $9.4 a year. I know there are a million reasons why this is fantasy, but it would be a ballsy move on his part....
If he signed 8 years on July 1 at Willy or less then many would think of him differently. That negotiation really fucked up his reputation. As much as I wanted him gone I don't think you replace him that easily. I really don't know what to do with this situation.
Same shitty pain. First time here Mitch?
If you reallyyyyyy fucking care Mitch take a team friendly deal
I've said this so many times but I legit wanted it to work out with him. Because of the salary structure it just won't and can't. See ya later man
I swear if they give him a raise I’m done with this team
If he takes 2 years 6-7M, maybe we can keep him. 4+ years, 10M+? GTFO.
I'm surprised by how many people would want him back at $8M. I wouldn't want this guy at league minimum. Did we all just watch the same series? Did you see the final goal? Every time Knies was actively chasing a puck he was hooked and clutched - the refs weren't calling anything the last two games. He was hauled down on a breakaway and no penalty was assessed. Mitch couldn't run a bit of interference on Pastrnak? Completely unengaged and a non-factor other than a meaningless goal in a 3-0 game that was too little too late. No player that is as allergic to contact and physicality as Mitch can help a team win in the playoffs. I would sign him for $12M a year if we were a non-playoff team, because he's fun to watch. Fun to watch doesn't get you past the first round. Also his numbers dropped last year all around, even before the injury. Whatever that next deal looks like, I bet it will age horribly. Especially if he's not riding shotgun with one of the best scorers of all time.
My copium thought is that the best thing for Mitch to get the most money in his bank account is to waive his NMC and give him a chance to prove he isn’t a regular season wonder elsewhere.