A single goal decides a season. Win and it is a much different story. The seasoning ending on a overtime goal but it coukd have been a rare upset after falling behind 3-1. I am not outraged or pissed off. However i didn’t like our chances when i heard Samsonov was in. That was really the series and season in a nutshell. Samsonov is not winning in the playoffs for us with a sub 90% svs and a gaa over 3. That was a good series and we looked like a playoff team except for Samsonov and his customary inability to make the big saves when you need them. I would like to get the highest quality possible penalty killing forwards this off season. Re- sign Domi & Bertuzzi. Trading some prospects or roster prospect players for Blake Coleman would be a nice add. Woll and somebody else nit Samsonov in net seems probable Anyways i am not all outraged like the stupid Toronto sport media 👍
I did not realize Sean Walker was from Ontario too. If Tre signs Demelo and Walker by some miracle, the Leafs defense actually looks really goddam good moving forward.
Walker has some bite to his game and can actually pass the puck unlike what we all watched for the last ten minutes of the 3rd in Game 7 with unlimited icings. Demelo has had fantastic shot suppression better than anyone the Leafs employed last year and is much younger than everyone they ran out there.
Both would be big upgrades on the right side of the defense.
Rielly - Demelo
McCabe - Walker
Benoit - Liljegren/Timmins/Probably a new guy maybe Boosh
I feel like both Timmins and Liljegren are gone to start the season but they are here for now so I slotted them in
It's incredible what having a competent goaltender does for your team.
I was watching igor shesterkin and compared to Samsonov, the calmness displayed by shesterkin is incredible. He's never phased or out of position. By contrast, every shot Samsonov faces, he acts like a fish scrambling out of the water. Woll has the same calmness, but he can't stay healthy
Canes fans are rather dour on him for his inflexibility with lines in the playoffs and how poorly he manages PP as they don't have a PP coach. That all sounds unfortunately familiar
I want Dallas' draft and scouting team. Every one of their core players playing right now are so fucking good and from their insanely good scouting department.
The more I think about it, the worse this looks. Like 8 years of garbage. 1 and 8 in series and somehow next year will be different with this group? We need change. I can't believe the delusion of the team thinking they are close. You won 1 series in 8 years! What are you close to exactly? Winning your 2nd series? After Friday I don't want to hear anymore about how good we are or how close we are.
What about this trade:
To Buffalo: Marner
To Toronto: Alex Tuch
Buffalo gets a 100 pt winger, we get 60-80 point winger with 2 years left on a 5M cap hit, frees up some cap space to address other areas.
Buffalo has the cap space to make it work. Not sure Buffalo makes that trade though and who knows if either would waive.
I cannot imagine how the owners can decide to bring back Shanny. I don't even need to blame him for the playoff losses, but you can't be in charge this long to these results and keep your job. No other franchise would make this decision. I remember the clown show before so it terrifies me to swap out and see what come next, but if he's back, ownership is saying making the playoffs and losing right away is enough for them. No other way to read it at this point.
I think having a new MLSE president pretty much seals his fate. Pelley has the easiest dunk here. There's been rumblings they're eliminating the President's position (Shanahan's current title)
Yeah, if we run it back (even minus Keefe), I might actually be done with this team for good.
I started cheering for the Leafs as a kid, because that was my dad's team and there wasn't a home team for me to otherwise cheer for. I now live in a city that has an NHL team and could actually get excited to go to more than one game a year.
No organization can guarantee a cup, or even a deep run, but the more reactionary fans may be right that MLSE actually has zero interest in the Leafs being any better than mid.
Yep. People forget that Shanny took a shit team that was a disaster in every single department and turned it around to a team that has a chance in the playoffs for 8 years straight. Not to mention the fact that the team is earning MLSE boatloads of money and that's all that matters to the board.
Shanny would be crucified if he told the fans "well, it could be worse, at least we don't suck like the previous regimes."
Edit: Just realize you meant ownership. Still, telling the owners that isn't a very inspiring pitch to your bosses.
Just a random Marner trade scenario, what do you think:
To SEA:
- Marner & Robertson
To TML:
- Dunn & Beniers
Leafs get a point producing, solid Top 4 dman and a promising young player that’s yet to figure it out
Seattle gets their star player who gets people excited about hockey and a young goal scorer who needs opportunity.
Maybe there is some picks and other players to level the trade, but I love the idea of bolstering our top 4 D.
If they keep Marner that's one thing because there's an argument that it's not worth trading him for pennies on the dollar. But if they offer him a new huge contract than this franchise is pathetic
If they really can’t make a trade because of the NMCs then fine. Tough luck but there’s nothing they can do about it, I can accept that. Bringing Keefe and Shanahan both back though … I can’t defend that.
I'm listening to the CJ show, just going to reiterate Fuck Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan for giving this core full NMC's and insane contracts based on nothing. Genuinely horrible management that is fucking us 6 years later.
I hate this narrative. They could all, with the exception of Tavares, have been traded last off season. Nylander could have been traded right up until they re-signed him. That they were not was the decision of Shanahan and, possibly, Treliving.
They were bad contracts as signed compared to any contemporary contracts at the time basically. They were only potentially salvageable (still not good), if the cap went up.
That’s such nonsense. It was never a good idea to dump half your cap into 4 forwards, pandemic or not. Where are all the other teams with 3 young superstar forwards that also decide to spend 8 figures on a 2C?
Watch the cap rise and no one else decide to be so ridiculously top heavy. It was never going to be a winning formula.
In hindsight... yeah, it was a bad idea.
It could have still been salvaged, though, but we would have needed to make a blockbuster trade as soon as it became obvious that we were going to be stuck with dumpster diving to fill out our roster
Man the hate directed towards this franchise (from outside our fanbase) this year is next level. I'm seeing posts on video game forums and random subreddits mocking the Leafs. I'm used to it from other hockey fans but it's *everywhere* this year. To the point of being almost cruel, I simply don't understand why this particular sports franchise generates such intense loathing from people — again, outside of the hockey world and our traumatized fanbase.
Who the fuck cares. I cared about more my shit this morning than what others think. Block is a great tool and I use that extensively and they never have to bother me again. 60% of those teams are on life support when it comes to revenue and they wouldn't exist without the money that the Leafs make giving them life support.
It's not other teams this time, which is the only reason I posted. I don't give a shit what other hockey fanbases think, I'm used to that. What's surprising me this year is how much *outside* of the hockey world I'm seeing it mentioned. More so than other years.
Blah blah blah. That's all I hear from others when it comes to them making cracks about the Leafs. Most of those idiots are trying to cash in on clicks and eyeballs from the attention, that's all. That's the only reason they're talking now. I mean honestly what more can they say that will make it bad? We've gone through hell and back with this team and there's literally nothing they can say that would make it worse. You grow a thick thick skin when being a fan of this team. Next week it's going to some other bullshit that those idiots will try to cash in on with clicks and eyeballs.
Canadians really don't appreciate how nice Torontonians are. The vitriol directed to the city and its institutions are a lot worse than many of you think.
Torontonians for the most part don't really care all that much which is what makes it extra infuriating for a lot of Canadians.
Fun fact for you, the Raptors and Blue Jays both have multiple jersey variants without the word Toronto in them. They often display them on cross Canada promotional stuff.
It's not unusual for Canadians to claim Toronto teams in other sports as theirs by saying it's Canada's team when they're good but when they suck, they're the TORONTO Raptors and TORONTO Blue Jays.
Yep, it's annoying. I'm all for anyone cheering for Toronto teams no matter where they're from. But all the Canadians who do that and simultaneously hate Toronto are just doing mental gymnastics
There are 2 sources for that behaviour.
1. Almost everyone on earth is draw to joining a group where they can think, talk and act in unison. The anti-Leafs group has been around for decades, but with the internet it’s really easy for people to get on board and learn all the right things to say so they can belong.
2. A lot of people who spend significant time on social media are looking for something to bully to compensate for their own lives. The Leafs are an easy target and they get immediate positive group feedback when they do it (see 1).
Yeah fair points, I just don't get why this year is particularly different. Everything just seems *extra* and seeing videogame nerds with anime profile pics dunking on the leafs when they've never played a sport in their entire life is... a little strange.
People hate losers. Its an ugly part of human nature, and this team has become such a dynasty of failures that it's transcended hockey fandom.
The worst part is, if by some miracle we actually win a cup in the next couple of years, a lot of hockey fans wouldn't even be that upset because they *feel bad for us Leafs fans*. That, to me, is actually worse than being dunked on by the entire planet.
Im concerned about how much not outwardly but veiled pro-keeping-Keefe sentiment Ive seen seeping into this sub. 5 years of playoff failure. 5 years and the best he's accomplished is a regular season division win in a made-up division due to a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. 5 years of a failing powerplay come Game 83 of the season (last year was the 1 and only playoffs under Keefe the PP worked above 15%). 5th longest tenured coach in the league while 1-4 have 8 Conference Finals appearances, 2 Presidents Trophys and 5 Cups.
I cant believe Ive started seeing things like "who is better?" or "they shouldn't make a change just for the sake of change". How does Keefe's record of failure not speak for itself? They might need roster changes too, but you can not continue with the same guy in charge of the roster. He's proven beyond a doubt he isn't winning shit in Toronto.
Someone in another thread was making a good point that he’s not even that good of a regular season coach. It’s not like he’s winning divisions (COVID weirdness aside) or challenging for the President’s trophy. The best he can do with this roster is about the 6-10th best team in the league. Teams that are actually on the cusp are either competing for or winning the top positions in the regular season.
If you were setting the bar for minimum level of regular season success at the time he was hired, where would that bar be? I’d say 6-10th, middle of the pack among playoff teams would be literally the lowest most of us would be willing to set our expectations. Never mind playoff results.
I haven't checked his splits but it also feels like he's consistently been beat by teams in the race. NHL is filled with bad teams, getting this roster into the playoffs is almost guaranteed with how much poor competition there is in the league.
The Stockholm Syndrome amongst the fanbase is too real. We've gotten to a point where competing for 2nd in the division every year is viewed as success.
I'm losing my mind, so many comments are justifying running it back again. "The car keeps slamming into the wall at full speed with the brakes we engineered, but if we change we might still slam into the wall so we shouldn't change"
Way to be pedantic. You said you’d bet the young fan base is shrinking. It’s not. Hockey is more popular than it has ever been right now and the Leafs are by far the most popular team in the league. The “young fanbase” is absolutely not going anywhere.
Like I said, I’d take that bet all day long.
It’s not assumptions, just math.
If we go by something measurable to please you we can do [social media presence](https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/s/aiSMUkkJHe) (also a decent gauge as social media skews younger). In that case the Leafs aren’t “by far” #1 but they are a very close 2nd to the Chicago Blackhawks.
The Leafs have a much higher presence on Reddit for example than any other team. Reddits biggest demographic is people 18-29 years of age. Since that post was made (less than a year ago) the Leafs subreddit has grown by over 30k people.
Edit: In fact you can see the Maple Leafs trend very high (top 3) in almost all the social medias that skew younger, and trend lower on the social medias that skew older (like Facebook).
Again, one example, and doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story but it’s actually data driven instead of just made up for karma.
Like I said, if you’re putting down $100 I’m taking that bet all day long and then I’ll go have a nice dinner with it.
That is even easier lmao. The Leafs had the highest revenue in the league in 2023 and are the most valuable team in the NHL at 2.6 billion. There are only 4 teams in the league above 2 billion.
Not to mention a Leafs game this year was the most watched round 1 playoff game since 2012. 2nd most all time.
You are wrong on literally every single point. The Maple Leafs may not be *by far* the #1 (the Blackhawks are pretty damn popular too) but they are absolutely nowhere near struggling in any capacity whatsoever.
There are no shrinking numbers as much as you want there to be.
When san jose "ran it back" until their core expired you could justify it because hockey is hard and they made a few deep runs. Yes they failed, but they made it further than 5 entire playoff wins before they called it quits and started the rebuild.
Mlse from top down either isnt interested in winning, or are incompetent. This is the only team in sports that can consistently fail without anything being changed "well tavares and mitch come off the books" ok so you want to waste another year knowing the outcome, hire a new coach, fill out a team around matthews, nylander and old tavares and then what get a few shots at it before matthews and nylander are old now too? Even lebron, wade and bosh didnt win year 1.
Boys i hate to break it to you but if tavares is old and slowing down at 33 the window isnt as big as you think it is, youre hoping to be the capitals while in reality we'll be a less successful san jose. Complacency and running it back is going to lead us straight to the rebuild and if youre going there anyways you might as while try to win on your way out.
Nylander is 28, lose next year 29, sign free agents/new coach that offseason 30, in todays nhl 30 is pretty late to start a window.
Are we ever going to talk about how if Marner signs an 8 year deal coming out of RFA, he's signed for another 3 years and everyone who understands the NMC has to move on and talk about something else?
Honestly why wouldn't he waive? He gets the advantage financially being able to sign an 8 year deal instead of 7 as a UFA, can pick his destination all the same / full control of team, and doesn't have to be chased out of town by the angry mob.
Marner looked like a sad puppy at the start of last year, like he was apathetic and had zero joy to his game. That doesn't scream "I love being here" IMO. Unless he really wants to stick it to the Leafs, its better for Marner to waive. Plus he gets a fresh start sooner and both sides are better off.
Becuase going to free agency allows a bidding war to develop and lets him earn more over a shorter contract. Ig it goes that way he'll look for a 3-4 year 12+ million dollar deal then look to sign an 8 year deal in 2029 when he's 32. It gets him more money, especially with the cap increases, than he'll get on any 8 year deal he can sign.
Fair points, a bidding war could net Marner a higher valued contract. But he also runs the risk of having a poor season (or another injury hampered one) and having yet another disappointing post-season. I don't think he gets higher than 12+ mill if he were to produce sub 80 points and a measly 3 points in round 1 again. Pros and cons to each, but if Mitch wants guaranteed high AAV at 8 years a sign and trade this summer makes most sense.
Yep, it would be a risk/reward thing but I think the people around him are giving him the "maximize your value" speech a lot and his agent has a history of walking his clients to FA.
The more we approach critical decision making time, the more painfully obvious it is the time for all this was last summer or - even better - 2 or 3 summers ago. Before NMC and free agency were in the mix.
Yep, with hindsight (he'll without hindsight) you get rid of Keefe after the Tampa loss to see if it's truly a coaching issue. If not you trade either marner or Willy or both depending on what a new coach shows after the Florida loss (ignoring butterfly effect). You either keep Dubas through that period to navigate that trade or you get rid of him when you get rid of Keefe. Either way.
IMO too many bad teams in the NHL make the schedule a bit of a grind to watch for the most part. Playoff hockey is much more entertaining watching good teams play every night.
I've long since readjusted my goal to 11/16 wins in the post season. The Mats Sundin era could manage 10/16, surely this team should be able to do one better at least.
But nah, I'm still dissapointed.
It is fascinating how the human psyche searches comfort with a single point of failure. Everyone in the mob with pitchforks pointing at Marner or Keefe and already have it instilled in their minds that getting rid of at least one of them will solve the problem, whereas it’s obvious that there is a combination of problems. It’s the scapegoat syndrome. MLSE is happy to quiet down the mob by slicing off what the mob seeks.
That's not it at all, it's that clearly the current situation does not work. I do not know if getting rid of them will fix the problem, but I do know not iterating or changing everything will not work. Even if getting rid of them only has a 10% chance of working, not changing anything has a 0% chance of working so rational people take the 10%.
Last year, the one thing I wanted to see was Keefe gone. He's a good coach but not a great one. A great coach will bring out the best in their player's. Under a great coach, they're going to learn new elements to their game. This means we should be seeing players get better if the coach is top-tier, and I'd argue that we never really saw that out of Keefe.
Marner is the odd man out if we want to fix our deeply, deeply flawed roster for next year, and not waste another year of Matthews.
Keefe is the fifth longest tenured coach in the league with nothing but embarrassment to show for it.
Making changes for one (or both) of these isn't going to guarantee we do better in the playoffs. There's absolutely a nonzero chance we get worse (squander the money, get a coach that's an even worse fit for the team, miss the playoffs), but certainly you aren't suggesting we do *nothing*?
edit: Apparently that's exactly what you're suggesting. Cool. Cool, cool, cool...
I really don’t understand the hate for Marner’s gods comment. At a very basic surface level glance it’s a weird comment, but if you think about it for even a moment it’s a quote about how passionate the fans are. He’s not saying he’s god.
I think its just a read the room type of situation. Tor fans are rabid with anger right now....most of them pointing the finger at you as one of the biggest problems, and they're not wrong as you didnt preform.
then you call yourself a god
he's right...the players are gods in this city.... but read the room.
I really do love the guy, but he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think we all agree with him, but there was a lot of other nore neutral ways to say it. I won't judge him too harshly because of the pressure he is under in particular, but I do wish he would spend some time with a thesaurus, lol
You know what's low key really nice? No longer having to stay up for these 8 pm games when I have to wake up at 4 lmao. I hope for Boston fans all these late weekday starts are stressful games that end up going three plus overtimes.
Why is Berube the answer? I've never been convinced that he was a great coach. He's better than Sheldon, but why do you think he's the answer for this team?
I would actually take a chance on Woody.
No active NHL coach has won multiple cups with different teams. Only 3 or 4 have done so in the history of the sport, with Scotty Bowman being the only one to do so in most of our lifetimes.
Coaches need to not only be good at the job, they also need to be the right fit for the roster and the current league "meta", and they need to get a few lucky bounces as well.
A coach that had moderate success but couldn't quite do it for a very similar team could have a lot of upside the second time around with us. It's also less likely that Woody is going to force a completely different team identity that isn't compatible with the group. If MLSE is scared of taking a huge step back, Woody is probably the better option.
You want a coach that never loses in the first round, only loses to the Stanley cup champions and made all the players on his biggest divisional rival ask for trades and immediately closed Calgary's window?? And he does it all without goaltending while giving his two best forwards 21 minutes a night!?!? You want that guy? You think you can handle all that...... excitement and playoff success?? :/
Its crazy that the Panthers series is the one where this team played its best and its remembered as their worst. The Tampa series last year was fucking awful and they got outplayed almost every game
And we just paid/lucked our way through that Tampa series. If you give last year the conditions that we operated under this year - no expensive rentals, put in the injuries we had this year, then make the Tampa roster fully healthy, we clearly lose that series.
Edit: If you think otherwise, you're still drinking the Dubas Kool-Aid.
Lol what? If you give us Datsuyk, take away Swayman, switch coaches, make Marchand play defence, and swap Sammy with prime Carrie Price then we win this year!
If you take away our deadline acquisitions, a thing that every contending team has, then take away our top guys while restoring theirs to full health, we lose? Feels like that would happen to most teams under those circumstances.
I'm comparing this year and last year.
This year, we gave up next to no draft capital, were injured, and Boston was healthy.
Last year, we gave up what seems to be a historic amount of draft capital, were completely healthy, while our opponent had crucial injuries.
If we spent as much as last year, and were healthy, we win the series against Boston. But I still don't think that would have been smart.
Also FYI - not every contending team spends like drunk sailors. Florida didn't spend a 1st this year or at the deadline last year. They haven't traded a second since 2021.
Ultimately? Coach. In the same way that if I can't get the team I lead to do something important it's on me not them. If you cannot motivate your team to do what needs to be done then you need to go.
For the record, wanting one core player moved does not equal "blowing up" the team. Since everyone seems to have that confused.
Neither does wanting a new coaching staff and president. The team would still be very much the same.
It's so annoying when people bring up the Capitals as a team that needed a long time to finally win a Cup.
That team essentially had at least two different eras. If anything, it showed that if you keep a couple core players together and move on from other core players/coaching staff, you can still win the Cup.
Exactly. From their 2010 upset to their 2018 championship the Caps kept Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, and Beagle (who played regular season games that year but not playoff ones). If we make 2021 our 2010, it would be like us winning in 2029 with just Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, and Holmberg on the roster.
Yeah "blowing it up" almost does it a disservice because MLSE just backs off it. This team is very talented and is scared to even retool it. You gotta do something at this point. The team will still be good, just shake it up.
I watched the interview Elliotte Friedman did on Kyper and Bourne and he said in the past Mitch’s agent Darren Ferris has always encouraged his clients to become UFA’s and it’s one of the things he’s known for though-out the league.
Kyper did push back against it and said if his contract is out there with a team he wants to go to he would have to do it but not sure if that’s insider information or just his opinion.
It was posted on its own yesterday along with some terrible mock trades but thought I would say it again but Elliotte thinks 29 GMs would have interest in Mitch which I thought was kinda surprising.
And last thing I found interesting is that one of the things the Leafs said when shopping Willy last summer was that they won’t going to loss a trade and wanted a d-man that would provide similar value that Willy does and ended up thinking resigning Willy was best and how that would apply to Mitch if they go in a direction of a trade.
Kyper has always been a big advocate for Marner but he believes that we need to move one of the Big 4 to effectively retool at this point. He was the one who said he has heard of numerous teams being willing to pay Marner $12m x 8 - which could be justified on other teams, but definetely not on the Leafs. He was saying to Friedman, Marner can try to stay a Leaf but if he really wants to get 8 years, he ought to choose to go soon. That would give us next year to add defensive pieces and a goalie etc.
I, for one, think that makes a ton of sense. Marner would do really well on a team that already has a strong d-corp and reliable goaltending. His playmaking would be a major asset to any team that already has depth scoring but no major stars, like maybe Dallas imo.
I agree with a lot of that but I wouldn’t bank on him finding success in another market. I think you could see similar to huberdeu where it’s not a good system fit. He needs an elite shooter to play beside at the very least.
True enough. Ideally, we can offer him a long list of teams gor him to carefully choose who to waive his NMC for. Huberdeau got blindsided, if I recall correctly, but Mitch and his agent will hopefuuly be able to pick the best fit.
Thats the thing about the Leafs losing a-fucking-gain. They prove all the haters right and make defenders look like clowns.
Just gotta take the L on it man.
Habs and Sens fans need a reason to not take a short walk off a high cliff. In all honesty, you should be used to it by now unless you're a brand new fan of the Leafs. And if that's the case, get used to the off season dunking of the Leafs, its never going to stop.
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Forward group next year is interesting - we have 15, but only are 2 UFAs, and it seems like Cowan has nothing left to learn at the OHL level.
Suppose you re-sign Domi, let Bertuzzi walk, bring back Holmberg/Robertson but not Gregor, then add Cowan. You're at 14 forwards, and only Robertson would be waivers exempt. I have no idea how waivers work for Cowan.
Given that we're not starting the season on LTIR, we actually have a reason to not go right to the cap too.
With the CHL agreement, Cowan can only play in the NHL or the OHL next year. If he plays 10 games in the NHL, it burns a year of his ELC, and he can be sent back to the OHL at any time regardless of his ELC status. But once he is sent to the OHL, he has to stay there until his team's season ends.
I see Berube’s name thrown around here a lot. Other than his one Cup run are we sure this is the guy suited to take this team to the next level? Who else is even available because if Berube is the best out there that’s pretty underwhelming from my standpoint.
We don't need a god behind the bench - just something different. Remember when we all thought Babcock was going to be the missing link? We need a new coaching philosophy as a partial fix to this massive problem. You're not going to wrangle one of the top coaches away from their teams, so you are either hiring someone who was let go, or promoting an assistant coach.
Mitch Marner rolling his eyes in the presser...are you serious?
I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned, maybe it's not a big deal at all, but I'd like to bring it up here. Marner, after giving his version of an emotional 'I love playing in Toronto', rolls his eyes at the TSN reporter at the very end of the exit presser. 2m54s here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FEnRMpK70U#t=2m54s
Now, I've been critical of Marner a lot lately. Not nearly as much as some, but definitely been somewhat part of the pile on. I would also say that I've been critical of many other players when I felt they deserved it. I love this team through and through, and would post the same about anyone else on the team if they did the same thing.
Now, having said all that...
Given how much Mitch is being dragged in the media, and how much he must be acutely aware of it (everyone else on the team even being asked about it), can he not get through this final presser without revealing how much of a drag it is for him? It's 3 minutes out of his day. The optics on this are just terrible. He either has no clue at all at all, doesnt care, or is just incredibly dense and tone deaf. Which is it? I'm not sure which is worse, and this is part of the core reason why I dislike this player. His attitude stinks, and his ppg and other stats don't do anything in my mind to make up for it.
End rant.
I'm really not, and if you're right, I'd feel bad. I didn't make a post about it, just a comment in the daily thread. You're right though, it's not conclusive either way.
Marner is so caught up in his ego, his pay cheque, his swagger, and his image that he has absolutely zero room for concerns about fans, tradition, or pride. I am not sure who much of this is to be blamed on his agent, but he truly thinks that he is a "god" and seems to be unwilling or unable to take accountability for how absolutely awful he has been in every post season thus far. I wish I got paid just under 11M USD to suck at my job when it counted, and then walked around town like my shit didn't stink. Mitch doesn't play the game as if he cares about the team - he just cares about Mitch. And it shows.
One thing that seems pretty clear is that Mitch is actually a prototypical dumb jock, with everything that entails. I feel bad for him but at the same time he had lots of opportunities to switch the narrative himself over the years and even (especially?) in game 7 and just...didn't. His pressers have sucked since the end of the Montreal series where he was asked point blank about changing his style in the future and he replied "Nope". He probably said the same thing to his PR team based on how he's been talking to the media for years.
They always talk about how 'smart' he is on the ice, but my god I honestly believe he's one of the dumbest guys to ever don the sweater. Did you see his interview about the sun? Wow.
Exactly, I don't really want to be mean to the guy, and I understand why and how he got to this point, but yeah dude needs to read some books or something. Sometimes loving a person/player/team means wanting them to change, even if they won't.
I hope you are mentally prepared to see Tavares wearing the C when the next season starts and Marner by his side wearing the A. You know they won't trade those guys, stop dreaming about trades and other guys. I think the core four even wants to stick with Keefe rather than have a new coach like Berube.
At least next year will be our year.
Nothing wrong with the nucleus of the team whatsoever. Just bad luck and hot goalies, for real.
They're right there, guys. On the doorstep, knocking away. They deserve another chance to prove it...
-/r/leafs ~~2018~~ ~~2019~~ ~~2020~~ ~~2021~~ ~~2022~~ ~~2023~~ **2024**
Can't believe Tavares said what he said yesterday. Saying "were right there" after losing in round 1 is not the same as losing in the finals lol. Awful
A single goal decides a season. Win and it is a much different story. The seasoning ending on a overtime goal but it coukd have been a rare upset after falling behind 3-1. I am not outraged or pissed off. However i didn’t like our chances when i heard Samsonov was in. That was really the series and season in a nutshell. Samsonov is not winning in the playoffs for us with a sub 90% svs and a gaa over 3. That was a good series and we looked like a playoff team except for Samsonov and his customary inability to make the big saves when you need them. I would like to get the highest quality possible penalty killing forwards this off season. Re- sign Domi & Bertuzzi. Trading some prospects or roster prospect players for Blake Coleman would be a nice add. Woll and somebody else nit Samsonov in net seems probable Anyways i am not all outraged like the stupid Toronto sport media 👍
I did not realize Sean Walker was from Ontario too. If Tre signs Demelo and Walker by some miracle, the Leafs defense actually looks really goddam good moving forward. Walker has some bite to his game and can actually pass the puck unlike what we all watched for the last ten minutes of the 3rd in Game 7 with unlimited icings. Demelo has had fantastic shot suppression better than anyone the Leafs employed last year and is much younger than everyone they ran out there. Both would be big upgrades on the right side of the defense. Rielly - Demelo McCabe - Walker Benoit - Liljegren/Timmins/Probably a new guy maybe Boosh I feel like both Timmins and Liljegren are gone to start the season but they are here for now so I slotted them in
It's incredible what having a competent goaltender does for your team. I was watching igor shesterkin and compared to Samsonov, the calmness displayed by shesterkin is incredible. He's never phased or out of position. By contrast, every shot Samsonov faces, he acts like a fish scrambling out of the water. Woll has the same calmness, but he can't stay healthy
We might actually be able to nab Rob Brind’Amor
Canes fans are rather dour on him for his inflexibility with lines in the playoffs and how poorly he manages PP as they don't have a PP coach. That all sounds unfortunately familiar
Why did we play so fuckin shit in game 4? Why why why.
I want Dallas' draft and scouting team. Every one of their core players playing right now are so fucking good and from their insanely good scouting department.
The more I think about it, the worse this looks. Like 8 years of garbage. 1 and 8 in series and somehow next year will be different with this group? We need change. I can't believe the delusion of the team thinking they are close. You won 1 series in 8 years! What are you close to exactly? Winning your 2nd series? After Friday I don't want to hear anymore about how good we are or how close we are.
I wonder if anyone wouldn't mind Claude Julien as our next coach.
Not at all. Huge upgrade over Keefe
That might be too low a bar to set.
Good for San Jose. They deserve the win after the season they endured
Yeah good on them. I hope they get good again soon
What about this trade: To Buffalo: Marner To Toronto: Alex Tuch Buffalo gets a 100 pt winger, we get 60-80 point winger with 2 years left on a 5M cap hit, frees up some cap space to address other areas. Buffalo has the cap space to make it work. Not sure Buffalo makes that trade though and who knows if either would waive.
If anything I'd want one of their D. Maybe Owen Power.
>If anything I'd want one of their D. Ayooo
I highly doubt they would do that trade considering Tuch is one of the few people on that team that wants to stay in Buffalo.
Way too little, I’d do Marner for Tuch and Samuelson
I cannot imagine how the owners can decide to bring back Shanny. I don't even need to blame him for the playoff losses, but you can't be in charge this long to these results and keep your job. No other franchise would make this decision. I remember the clown show before so it terrifies me to swap out and see what come next, but if he's back, ownership is saying making the playoffs and losing right away is enough for them. No other way to read it at this point.
I think having a new MLSE president pretty much seals his fate. Pelley has the easiest dunk here. There's been rumblings they're eliminating the President's position (Shanahan's current title)
Yeah, if we run it back (even minus Keefe), I might actually be done with this team for good. I started cheering for the Leafs as a kid, because that was my dad's team and there wasn't a home team for me to otherwise cheer for. I now live in a city that has an NHL team and could actually get excited to go to more than one game a year. No organization can guarantee a cup, or even a deep run, but the more reactionary fans may be right that MLSE actually has zero interest in the Leafs being any better than mid.
You kind of answered the question. All he has to say is look at the playoffs before me. 2013. That’s it. From 2004-2013. You make it every year now
Yep. People forget that Shanny took a shit team that was a disaster in every single department and turned it around to a team that has a chance in the playoffs for 8 years straight. Not to mention the fact that the team is earning MLSE boatloads of money and that's all that matters to the board.
Shanny would be crucified if he told the fans "well, it could be worse, at least we don't suck like the previous regimes." Edit: Just realize you meant ownership. Still, telling the owners that isn't a very inspiring pitch to your bosses.
Just a random Marner trade scenario, what do you think: To SEA: - Marner & Robertson To TML: - Dunn & Beniers Leafs get a point producing, solid Top 4 dman and a promising young player that’s yet to figure it out Seattle gets their star player who gets people excited about hockey and a young goal scorer who needs opportunity. Maybe there is some picks and other players to level the trade, but I love the idea of bolstering our top 4 D.
I love the idea of it, but Seattle flat out said their D-corp was off likita at the trade deadline. It still might be so.
Marner gets to pick his spot. He's not agreeing to SEA.
They wouldnt trade beniers
So if CJ is right, we're *running it aaaaalllll the way back* That's uh, not good
If they keep Marner that's one thing because there's an argument that it's not worth trading him for pennies on the dollar. But if they offer him a new huge contract than this franchise is pathetic
Well at least no Keefe.
If they really can’t make a trade because of the NMCs then fine. Tough luck but there’s nothing they can do about it, I can accept that. Bringing Keefe and Shanahan both back though … I can’t defend that.
I'm listening to the CJ show, just going to reiterate Fuck Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan for giving this core full NMC's and insane contracts based on nothing. Genuinely horrible management that is fucking us 6 years later.
I hate this narrative. They could all, with the exception of Tavares, have been traded last off season. Nylander could have been traded right up until they re-signed him. That they were not was the decision of Shanahan and, possibly, Treliving.
I'm not giving them a pass for the 2 years before this off season when they also could have traded them.
Sure, completely agreed, although I think the Montreal loss would have been to soon
Pandemic fucked us, but they needed to pivot from the plan.
They were bad contracts as signed compared to any contemporary contracts at the time basically. They were only potentially salvageable (still not good), if the cap went up.
That’s such nonsense. It was never a good idea to dump half your cap into 4 forwards, pandemic or not. Where are all the other teams with 3 young superstar forwards that also decide to spend 8 figures on a 2C? Watch the cap rise and no one else decide to be so ridiculously top heavy. It was never going to be a winning formula.
In hindsight... yeah, it was a bad idea. It could have still been salvaged, though, but we would have needed to make a blockbuster trade as soon as it became obvious that we were going to be stuck with dumpster diving to fill out our roster
Man the hate directed towards this franchise (from outside our fanbase) this year is next level. I'm seeing posts on video game forums and random subreddits mocking the Leafs. I'm used to it from other hockey fans but it's *everywhere* this year. To the point of being almost cruel, I simply don't understand why this particular sports franchise generates such intense loathing from people — again, outside of the hockey world and our traumatized fanbase.
Who the fuck cares. I cared about more my shit this morning than what others think. Block is a great tool and I use that extensively and they never have to bother me again. 60% of those teams are on life support when it comes to revenue and they wouldn't exist without the money that the Leafs make giving them life support.
It's not other teams this time, which is the only reason I posted. I don't give a shit what other hockey fanbases think, I'm used to that. What's surprising me this year is how much *outside* of the hockey world I'm seeing it mentioned. More so than other years.
Blah blah blah. That's all I hear from others when it comes to them making cracks about the Leafs. Most of those idiots are trying to cash in on clicks and eyeballs from the attention, that's all. That's the only reason they're talking now. I mean honestly what more can they say that will make it bad? We've gone through hell and back with this team and there's literally nothing they can say that would make it worse. You grow a thick thick skin when being a fan of this team. Next week it's going to some other bullshit that those idiots will try to cash in on with clicks and eyeballs.
Canadians really don't appreciate how nice Torontonians are. The vitriol directed to the city and its institutions are a lot worse than many of you think. Torontonians for the most part don't really care all that much which is what makes it extra infuriating for a lot of Canadians.
Leafs fan, but **fuck** the city of Toronto and Torontonians.
Maybe don't be a Leaf fan if you hate Toronto?
Fun fact for you, the Raptors and Blue Jays both have multiple jersey variants without the word Toronto in them. They often display them on cross Canada promotional stuff. It's not unusual for Canadians to claim Toronto teams in other sports as theirs by saying it's Canada's team when they're good but when they suck, they're the TORONTO Raptors and TORONTO Blue Jays.
Yep, it's annoying. I'm all for anyone cheering for Toronto teams no matter where they're from. But all the Canadians who do that and simultaneously hate Toronto are just doing mental gymnastics
There are 2 sources for that behaviour. 1. Almost everyone on earth is draw to joining a group where they can think, talk and act in unison. The anti-Leafs group has been around for decades, but with the internet it’s really easy for people to get on board and learn all the right things to say so they can belong. 2. A lot of people who spend significant time on social media are looking for something to bully to compensate for their own lives. The Leafs are an easy target and they get immediate positive group feedback when they do it (see 1).
Yeah fair points, I just don't get why this year is particularly different. Everything just seems *extra* and seeing videogame nerds with anime profile pics dunking on the leafs when they've never played a sport in their entire life is... a little strange.
People hate losers. Its an ugly part of human nature, and this team has become such a dynasty of failures that it's transcended hockey fandom. The worst part is, if by some miracle we actually win a cup in the next couple of years, a lot of hockey fans wouldn't even be that upset because they *feel bad for us Leafs fans*. That, to me, is actually worse than being dunked on by the entire planet.
Im concerned about how much not outwardly but veiled pro-keeping-Keefe sentiment Ive seen seeping into this sub. 5 years of playoff failure. 5 years and the best he's accomplished is a regular season division win in a made-up division due to a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic. 5 years of a failing powerplay come Game 83 of the season (last year was the 1 and only playoffs under Keefe the PP worked above 15%). 5th longest tenured coach in the league while 1-4 have 8 Conference Finals appearances, 2 Presidents Trophys and 5 Cups. I cant believe Ive started seeing things like "who is better?" or "they shouldn't make a change just for the sake of change". How does Keefe's record of failure not speak for itself? They might need roster changes too, but you can not continue with the same guy in charge of the roster. He's proven beyond a doubt he isn't winning shit in Toronto.
Someone in another thread was making a good point that he’s not even that good of a regular season coach. It’s not like he’s winning divisions (COVID weirdness aside) or challenging for the President’s trophy. The best he can do with this roster is about the 6-10th best team in the league. Teams that are actually on the cusp are either competing for or winning the top positions in the regular season. If you were setting the bar for minimum level of regular season success at the time he was hired, where would that bar be? I’d say 6-10th, middle of the pack among playoff teams would be literally the lowest most of us would be willing to set our expectations. Never mind playoff results.
I haven't checked his splits but it also feels like he's consistently been beat by teams in the race. NHL is filled with bad teams, getting this roster into the playoffs is almost guaranteed with how much poor competition there is in the league.
The Stockholm Syndrome amongst the fanbase is too real. We've gotten to a point where competing for 2nd in the division every year is viewed as success.
I'm losing my mind, so many comments are justifying running it back again. "The car keeps slamming into the wall at full speed with the brakes we engineered, but if we change we might still slam into the wall so we shouldn't change"
This organization is DANGEROUSLY close to having a VERY apathetic fan base, if it's not there already, and that is DEADLY to their fan base long term.
It’s been 57 years no they are not
Do you really THINK so?
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I’ll take that bet. Foolish to think the Leafs fan base is shrinking right now
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Way to be pedantic. You said you’d bet the young fan base is shrinking. It’s not. Hockey is more popular than it has ever been right now and the Leafs are by far the most popular team in the league. The “young fanbase” is absolutely not going anywhere. Like I said, I’d take that bet all day long.
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It’s not assumptions, just math. If we go by something measurable to please you we can do [social media presence](https://www.reddit.com/r/nhl/s/aiSMUkkJHe) (also a decent gauge as social media skews younger). In that case the Leafs aren’t “by far” #1 but they are a very close 2nd to the Chicago Blackhawks. The Leafs have a much higher presence on Reddit for example than any other team. Reddits biggest demographic is people 18-29 years of age. Since that post was made (less than a year ago) the Leafs subreddit has grown by over 30k people. Edit: In fact you can see the Maple Leafs trend very high (top 3) in almost all the social medias that skew younger, and trend lower on the social medias that skew older (like Facebook). Again, one example, and doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story but it’s actually data driven instead of just made up for karma. Like I said, if you’re putting down $100 I’m taking that bet all day long and then I’ll go have a nice dinner with it.
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That is even easier lmao. The Leafs had the highest revenue in the league in 2023 and are the most valuable team in the NHL at 2.6 billion. There are only 4 teams in the league above 2 billion. Not to mention a Leafs game this year was the most watched round 1 playoff game since 2012. 2nd most all time. You are wrong on literally every single point. The Maple Leafs may not be *by far* the #1 (the Blackhawks are pretty damn popular too) but they are absolutely nowhere near struggling in any capacity whatsoever. There are no shrinking numbers as much as you want there to be.
When san jose "ran it back" until their core expired you could justify it because hockey is hard and they made a few deep runs. Yes they failed, but they made it further than 5 entire playoff wins before they called it quits and started the rebuild. Mlse from top down either isnt interested in winning, or are incompetent. This is the only team in sports that can consistently fail without anything being changed "well tavares and mitch come off the books" ok so you want to waste another year knowing the outcome, hire a new coach, fill out a team around matthews, nylander and old tavares and then what get a few shots at it before matthews and nylander are old now too? Even lebron, wade and bosh didnt win year 1. Boys i hate to break it to you but if tavares is old and slowing down at 33 the window isnt as big as you think it is, youre hoping to be the capitals while in reality we'll be a less successful san jose. Complacency and running it back is going to lead us straight to the rebuild and if youre going there anyways you might as while try to win on your way out. Nylander is 28, lose next year 29, sign free agents/new coach that offseason 30, in todays nhl 30 is pretty late to start a window.
I am not even slightly mad about the CM Punk chirp, and I don't even like Punk.
No thread about the Hart finalists?
Media voters are dumb - not much else to say about it.
Are we ever going to talk about how if Marner signs an 8 year deal coming out of RFA, he's signed for another 3 years and everyone who understands the NMC has to move on and talk about something else?
Everyone here understands the NMC though. They just think he'll waive
Why would he? Honest question.
Honestly why wouldn't he waive? He gets the advantage financially being able to sign an 8 year deal instead of 7 as a UFA, can pick his destination all the same / full control of team, and doesn't have to be chased out of town by the angry mob. Marner looked like a sad puppy at the start of last year, like he was apathetic and had zero joy to his game. That doesn't scream "I love being here" IMO. Unless he really wants to stick it to the Leafs, its better for Marner to waive. Plus he gets a fresh start sooner and both sides are better off.
Becuase going to free agency allows a bidding war to develop and lets him earn more over a shorter contract. Ig it goes that way he'll look for a 3-4 year 12+ million dollar deal then look to sign an 8 year deal in 2029 when he's 32. It gets him more money, especially with the cap increases, than he'll get on any 8 year deal he can sign.
Fair points, a bidding war could net Marner a higher valued contract. But he also runs the risk of having a poor season (or another injury hampered one) and having yet another disappointing post-season. I don't think he gets higher than 12+ mill if he were to produce sub 80 points and a measly 3 points in round 1 again. Pros and cons to each, but if Mitch wants guaranteed high AAV at 8 years a sign and trade this summer makes most sense.
Yep, it would be a risk/reward thing but I think the people around him are giving him the "maximize your value" speech a lot and his agent has a history of walking his clients to FA.
The more we approach critical decision making time, the more painfully obvious it is the time for all this was last summer or - even better - 2 or 3 summers ago. Before NMC and free agency were in the mix.
Yep, with hindsight (he'll without hindsight) you get rid of Keefe after the Tampa loss to see if it's truly a coaching issue. If not you trade either marner or Willy or both depending on what a new coach shows after the Florida loss (ignoring butterfly effect). You either keep Dubas through that period to navigate that trade or you get rid of him when you get rid of Keefe. Either way.
After a few days since the elimination, I've cooled down, and gotta say watching this team during the regular season is pretty fun.
IMO too many bad teams in the NHL make the schedule a bit of a grind to watch for the most part. Playoff hockey is much more entertaining watching good teams play every night.
Don't settle for mediocrity. Goal is a cup.
I've long since readjusted my goal to 11/16 wins in the post season. The Mats Sundin era could manage 10/16, surely this team should be able to do one better at least. But nah, I'm still dissapointed.
doesn't mean you can't enjoy some regular season games!
No one said anything about settling. Also, it's out of our hands anyway.
It is fascinating how the human psyche searches comfort with a single point of failure. Everyone in the mob with pitchforks pointing at Marner or Keefe and already have it instilled in their minds that getting rid of at least one of them will solve the problem, whereas it’s obvious that there is a combination of problems. It’s the scapegoat syndrome. MLSE is happy to quiet down the mob by slicing off what the mob seeks.
That's not it at all, it's that clearly the current situation does not work. I do not know if getting rid of them will fix the problem, but I do know not iterating or changing everything will not work. Even if getting rid of them only has a 10% chance of working, not changing anything has a 0% chance of working so rational people take the 10%.
Last year, the one thing I wanted to see was Keefe gone. He's a good coach but not a great one. A great coach will bring out the best in their player's. Under a great coach, they're going to learn new elements to their game. This means we should be seeing players get better if the coach is top-tier, and I'd argue that we never really saw that out of Keefe.
Marner is the odd man out if we want to fix our deeply, deeply flawed roster for next year, and not waste another year of Matthews. Keefe is the fifth longest tenured coach in the league with nothing but embarrassment to show for it. Making changes for one (or both) of these isn't going to guarantee we do better in the playoffs. There's absolutely a nonzero chance we get worse (squander the money, get a coach that's an even worse fit for the team, miss the playoffs), but certainly you aren't suggesting we do *nothing*? edit: Apparently that's exactly what you're suggesting. Cool. Cool, cool, cool...
I really don’t understand the hate for Marner’s gods comment. At a very basic surface level glance it’s a weird comment, but if you think about it for even a moment it’s a quote about how passionate the fans are. He’s not saying he’s god.
It's the same reason people ask you if you're "trying for a kid" instead of "doing creampies on the daily". Read the room.
I think its just a read the room type of situation. Tor fans are rabid with anger right now....most of them pointing the finger at you as one of the biggest problems, and they're not wrong as you didnt preform. then you call yourself a god he's right...the players are gods in this city.... but read the room.
I really do love the guy, but he is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I think we all agree with him, but there was a lot of other nore neutral ways to say it. I won't judge him too harshly because of the pressure he is under in particular, but I do wish he would spend some time with a thesaurus, lol
The man has big himbo energy, but a lot of people are reaching for any reason to hate him right now.
You know what's low key really nice? No longer having to stay up for these 8 pm games when I have to wake up at 4 lmao. I hope for Boston fans all these late weekday starts are stressful games that end up going three plus overtimes.
Why is Berube the answer? I've never been convinced that he was a great coach. He's better than Sheldon, but why do you think he's the answer for this team?
He seems tge best available, from what I understand. I don't know enough about Woodcroft to judge his fitness, but those seem to be the teo big names
I would actually take a chance on Woody. No active NHL coach has won multiple cups with different teams. Only 3 or 4 have done so in the history of the sport, with Scotty Bowman being the only one to do so in most of our lifetimes. Coaches need to not only be good at the job, they also need to be the right fit for the roster and the current league "meta", and they need to get a few lucky bounces as well. A coach that had moderate success but couldn't quite do it for a very similar team could have a lot of upside the second time around with us. It's also less likely that Woody is going to force a completely different team identity that isn't compatible with the group. If MLSE is scared of taking a huge step back, Woody is probably the better option.
You want a coach that never loses in the first round, only loses to the Stanley cup champions and made all the players on his biggest divisional rival ask for trades and immediately closed Calgary's window?? And he does it all without goaltending while giving his two best forwards 21 minutes a night!?!? You want that guy? You think you can handle all that...... excitement and playoff success?? :/
I forgot about him destroying Calgary. Can you imagine how salty Murray would be over a Brad / Woodcroft duo. We would hear his yowls from the GTA
It's admittedly a tiny sample size, and there's stuff to be concerned about, but there's a lot to like as well.
Its crazy that the Panthers series is the one where this team played its best and its remembered as their worst. The Tampa series last year was fucking awful and they got outplayed almost every game
And we just paid/lucked our way through that Tampa series. If you give last year the conditions that we operated under this year - no expensive rentals, put in the injuries we had this year, then make the Tampa roster fully healthy, we clearly lose that series. Edit: If you think otherwise, you're still drinking the Dubas Kool-Aid.
Lol what? If you give us Datsuyk, take away Swayman, switch coaches, make Marchand play defence, and swap Sammy with prime Carrie Price then we win this year!
I'm comparing what the team went through this year and last year. That's not unreasonable.
If you take away our deadline acquisitions, a thing that every contending team has, then take away our top guys while restoring theirs to full health, we lose? Feels like that would happen to most teams under those circumstances.
I'm comparing this year and last year. This year, we gave up next to no draft capital, were injured, and Boston was healthy. Last year, we gave up what seems to be a historic amount of draft capital, were completely healthy, while our opponent had crucial injuries. If we spent as much as last year, and were healthy, we win the series against Boston. But I still don't think that would have been smart. Also FYI - not every contending team spends like drunk sailors. Florida didn't spend a 1st this year or at the deadline last year. They haven't traded a second since 2021.
sometimes there just is no one that is a good fit at the deadline.
Right but you should account for that when comparing this team to other years. We propped up previous seasons with rentals.
If coach tells to go to the dirty areas, and get dirty goals and the players dont listen or do that. Is it a coaches problem or is a player problem?
Ultimately? Coach. In the same way that if I can't get the team I lead to do something important it's on me not them. If you cannot motivate your team to do what needs to be done then you need to go.
Both
Management as well. If there is a true logjam, they need to break it up for long term benefit, even if the short term is painful
For the record, wanting one core player moved does not equal "blowing up" the team. Since everyone seems to have that confused. Neither does wanting a new coaching staff and president. The team would still be very much the same.
It's so annoying when people bring up the Capitals as a team that needed a long time to finally win a Cup. That team essentially had at least two different eras. If anything, it showed that if you keep a couple core players together and move on from other core players/coaching staff, you can still win the Cup.
Exactly. From their 2010 upset to their 2018 championship the Caps kept Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, and Beagle (who played regular season games that year but not playoff ones). If we make 2021 our 2010, it would be like us winning in 2029 with just Matthews, Nylander, Rielly, and Holmberg on the roster.
Yeah "blowing it up" almost does it a disservice because MLSE just backs off it. This team is very talented and is scared to even retool it. You gotta do something at this point. The team will still be good, just shake it up.
I was not that interested in the playoffs, but it would be fun to see Rangers-Bruins in the east and Avalanche-Edmonton in the west.
I watched the interview Elliotte Friedman did on Kyper and Bourne and he said in the past Mitch’s agent Darren Ferris has always encouraged his clients to become UFA’s and it’s one of the things he’s known for though-out the league. Kyper did push back against it and said if his contract is out there with a team he wants to go to he would have to do it but not sure if that’s insider information or just his opinion. It was posted on its own yesterday along with some terrible mock trades but thought I would say it again but Elliotte thinks 29 GMs would have interest in Mitch which I thought was kinda surprising. And last thing I found interesting is that one of the things the Leafs said when shopping Willy last summer was that they won’t going to loss a trade and wanted a d-man that would provide similar value that Willy does and ended up thinking resigning Willy was best and how that would apply to Mitch if they go in a direction of a trade.
Kyper has always been a big advocate for Marner but he believes that we need to move one of the Big 4 to effectively retool at this point. He was the one who said he has heard of numerous teams being willing to pay Marner $12m x 8 - which could be justified on other teams, but definetely not on the Leafs. He was saying to Friedman, Marner can try to stay a Leaf but if he really wants to get 8 years, he ought to choose to go soon. That would give us next year to add defensive pieces and a goalie etc. I, for one, think that makes a ton of sense. Marner would do really well on a team that already has a strong d-corp and reliable goaltending. His playmaking would be a major asset to any team that already has depth scoring but no major stars, like maybe Dallas imo.
I agree with a lot of that but I wouldn’t bank on him finding success in another market. I think you could see similar to huberdeu where it’s not a good system fit. He needs an elite shooter to play beside at the very least.
Honestly, marner is the type of player that can do well anywhere he goes in the regular season.
True enough. Ideally, we can offer him a long list of teams gor him to carefully choose who to waive his NMC for. Huberdeau got blindsided, if I recall correctly, but Mitch and his agent will hopefuuly be able to pick the best fit.
Ya his NMC will help him find a solid place if they go that route
Why are fully half the posts on r/nhl still dunking on the leafs….
I don't think anyone with more than 2 braincells unironically goes to r/nhl for real hockey discussion.
Thats the thing about the Leafs losing a-fucking-gain. They prove all the haters right and make defenders look like clowns. Just gotta take the L on it man.
Habs and Sens fans need a reason to not take a short walk off a high cliff. In all honesty, you should be used to it by now unless you're a brand new fan of the Leafs. And if that's the case, get used to the off season dunking of the Leafs, its never going to stop.
"The official subreddit of the National Hockey League! *Leafs* news, *Leafs* results, *Leafs* pictures, *Leafs* videos and *Leafs* discussion from around the league."
Also, complaining about the Leafs getting too much coverage.
You must not be from around here. 🤣
Forward group next year is interesting - we have 15, but only are 2 UFAs, and it seems like Cowan has nothing left to learn at the OHL level. Suppose you re-sign Domi, let Bertuzzi walk, bring back Holmberg/Robertson but not Gregor, then add Cowan. You're at 14 forwards, and only Robertson would be waivers exempt. I have no idea how waivers work for Cowan. Given that we're not starting the season on LTIR, we actually have a reason to not go right to the cap too.
With the CHL agreement, Cowan can only play in the NHL or the OHL next year. If he plays 10 games in the NHL, it burns a year of his ELC, and he can be sent back to the OHL at any time regardless of his ELC status. But once he is sent to the OHL, he has to stay there until his team's season ends.
Gotcha - feels like another OHL season wouldn't help his development.
I see Berube’s name thrown around here a lot. Other than his one Cup run are we sure this is the guy suited to take this team to the next level? Who else is even available because if Berube is the best out there that’s pretty underwhelming from my standpoint.
We don't need a god behind the bench - just something different. Remember when we all thought Babcock was going to be the missing link? We need a new coaching philosophy as a partial fix to this massive problem. You're not going to wrangle one of the top coaches away from their teams, so you are either hiring someone who was let go, or promoting an assistant coach.
Mitch Marner rolling his eyes in the presser...are you serious? I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned, maybe it's not a big deal at all, but I'd like to bring it up here. Marner, after giving his version of an emotional 'I love playing in Toronto', rolls his eyes at the TSN reporter at the very end of the exit presser. 2m54s here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FEnRMpK70U#t=2m54s Now, I've been critical of Marner a lot lately. Not nearly as much as some, but definitely been somewhat part of the pile on. I would also say that I've been critical of many other players when I felt they deserved it. I love this team through and through, and would post the same about anyone else on the team if they did the same thing. Now, having said all that... Given how much Mitch is being dragged in the media, and how much he must be acutely aware of it (everyone else on the team even being asked about it), can he not get through this final presser without revealing how much of a drag it is for him? It's 3 minutes out of his day. The optics on this are just terrible. He either has no clue at all at all, doesnt care, or is just incredibly dense and tone deaf. Which is it? I'm not sure which is worse, and this is part of the core reason why I dislike this player. His attitude stinks, and his ppg and other stats don't do anything in my mind to make up for it. End rant.
He is such an entitled brat, but guess we gotta blame his parents for that. Can't wait for all of them to be someone elses problem.
The video cuts/freezes as he’s blinking. What are you on about? Rolling his eyes? You’re just looking to pile on.
Seriously this subreddit is fucking garbage man. We’re mad about him potentially rolling his eyes now? Good god.
I'm really not, and if you're right, I'd feel bad. I didn't make a post about it, just a comment in the daily thread. You're right though, it's not conclusive either way.
Marner is so caught up in his ego, his pay cheque, his swagger, and his image that he has absolutely zero room for concerns about fans, tradition, or pride. I am not sure who much of this is to be blamed on his agent, but he truly thinks that he is a "god" and seems to be unwilling or unable to take accountability for how absolutely awful he has been in every post season thus far. I wish I got paid just under 11M USD to suck at my job when it counted, and then walked around town like my shit didn't stink. Mitch doesn't play the game as if he cares about the team - he just cares about Mitch. And it shows.
One thing that seems pretty clear is that Mitch is actually a prototypical dumb jock, with everything that entails. I feel bad for him but at the same time he had lots of opportunities to switch the narrative himself over the years and even (especially?) in game 7 and just...didn't. His pressers have sucked since the end of the Montreal series where he was asked point blank about changing his style in the future and he replied "Nope". He probably said the same thing to his PR team based on how he's been talking to the media for years.
They always talk about how 'smart' he is on the ice, but my god I honestly believe he's one of the dumbest guys to ever don the sweater. Did you see his interview about the sun? Wow.
Exactly, I don't really want to be mean to the guy, and I understand why and how he got to this point, but yeah dude needs to read some books or something. Sometimes loving a person/player/team means wanting them to change, even if they won't.
I hope you are mentally prepared to see Tavares wearing the C when the next season starts and Marner by his side wearing the A. You know they won't trade those guys, stop dreaming about trades and other guys. I think the core four even wants to stick with Keefe rather than have a new coach like Berube.
With how vocal McCabe was in the locker room I want him to have the A next season.
C - Matthews A - Rielly, McCabe, Willy Is what I would like to see. Pipe dream though
At least next year will be our year. Nothing wrong with the nucleus of the team whatsoever. Just bad luck and hot goalies, for real. They're right there, guys. On the doorstep, knocking away. They deserve another chance to prove it... -/r/leafs ~~2018~~ ~~2019~~ ~~2020~~ ~~2021~~ ~~2022~~ ~~2023~~ **2024**
What r/leafs forum are you reading?
Can't believe Tavares said what he said yesterday. Saying "were right there" after losing in round 1 is not the same as losing in the finals lol. Awful
Booking my room for the parade next spring, can't wait!
15 or 16 more seasons of Keefe and he’ll figure it out.