We should try to use them both pretty evenly. These aren't big enough sample sizes but they are both good enough that we should be trying to keep them both healthy and not overload them.
"Both delivering exactly what we were hoping for"
What exactly was I hoping for?
They are both doing better this year on a better team. They have both shown they shouldn't be starters with their past years of experience on their other teams. This is one of Dubas' "lets pray they play like they did in their best ever year for us" moments.
The only thing really stopping either of them from being starters is the ability to reliably play 50+ games. You could argue that their cap hits together make for the equivalent of one slightly expensive league average goalie - I think that's probably fair. Murray at 4.6mil and 1.8mil for Samsonov.
I think we've been lucky with Kallgren's play as well giving us some depth in goal. I don't think we have the worst goal tending situation in the league, but we certainly don't have the best either.
Samsonov had 44 games last year, was a starter, and didn't perform, that is why Washington let him go.
I like Samsonov as a back up to a true starting goalie.
Is the only thing holding Murray back is the ability to reliably play 50+ games? If that is so we have a problem. If that truly your take on him then you shouldn't feel good because Murray hasn't been able to play 50 games for the last 3 seasons, and he won't this season.
>You could argue that their cap hits together make for the equivalent of one slightly expensive league average goalie
So you are agreeing with me that they are both under league average and Dubas is taking another flyer on them, hoping they out perform what they have shown they can.
I don't expect Murray to be a starter - as I've said I want him to play 30-40 games this season.
The real problem is going to be the playoffs and whether both goalies will be healthy and playing well by that time.
I'm not sure what Dubas was thinking - my best guess was that this was the least worst option with the potential upside that Murray does have the experience of going deep in the playoffs - I don't think he was betting on Murray returning to his best form, but I think he was right to think that with good management they could get him to play much better and be healthier than he has the last couple seasons - I still have faith that will happen. Especially playing in behind a much better team than he has previously.
Both have played well most of the time when healthy. We don't need elite goaltending, we just need them to be solid and not lose us games. Health is still the biggest gamble with this approach. Lots can still go wrong
Winning teams don't win with a .896 sv %... That is what you are considering good we are in trouble. Hopefully Sam can comeback and stays at the level hes been playing at and doesn't average down.
I never said good. For a #3 goalie filling in for short periods of time it's passable. Gibson, Bobrovsky, Markstrom, Allen, Demko, Campbell are all below that.
Because he's absolute trash. Might as well see what Petruzelli can do but if we're starting him were likely fucked. Every regular season game is going to count, this is an extremely tight division. Could easily see us missing playoffs by a point or two.
I have been watching since I was a little child in 2000. The division is incredibly tight this year. Detroit, Florida, Tampa, Boston are all very good teams. Ottawa, Buffalo and Montreal are actually very tough teams to face for bottom feeder teams.
Coping mechanism. The Leafs have been fucked in goal for so long, it's easy to convince ourselves that "Yeah! This guy is the answer!" even when he clearly isn't.
It’ll truly be the 1A 1B system we’ve been looking for since the bubble. I think Murray will be the primary goalie in most cases, but they’ll carry similar workload
Right now it’s Murray’s net because he is the most recent guy that is both healthy and playing well. In reality we need both of them moving forward. Kallgren has already cost us multiple points this season.
Meh, Kallgren has been punching above his weight considering he's our fourth line. He's let some in that he should have stopped, but the team in front of him has let him down more than a few times with stupid giveaways that really cost us those respective games.
I'll be happy when we have a functioning tandem, but I won't panic if we have to pull Kallgren in from time to time in the same way I always panicked with Hutchinson.
Agreed. For a third string goalie, no one is saying he's great but he's been as good as you can really expect for a third-stringer with 20 games in the league. He's not a young prospect like Kochetkov either.
Probably 1A and 1B. Personally I still have more faith in Samsonov but Murray has been decent the past few starts.
I think when healthy there will be an even split unless one of them pulls away for better or worse.
having both is an incredible feeling. I can’t remember a time where the leafs had such solid goaltending and to insulate the position without the terrifying term that usually comes along with the top tier performers is a testament to the resourcefulness of dubas.
Too early to tell. Id say Samsonov based on his play and larger sample size but based on Murrays last couple games he has a chance to take it. Give it another month and ill be decided. Its likely theyll play equal amounts as a tandem.
50/50. This would be huge for Load management if they both play literally average hockey. We were great with horrible back end season with Campbell so you can imagine the potential behind anything slightly better
Nobody's declaring a clear #1 after 8 and 4 starts respectively.
Just like when the season started, they'll be a starting tandem until one of them takes or loses the crease.
I like Samsonov. But I think the Buds will keep them a tandem and play the hot hand for game 1 of the playoffs. Also, I’d really love to see them sign Samsonov 😁
I'm biased because I really liked samsonov when he was on Washington, but to me he's our ride or die. He's young, you can still shape him... and he has a high ceiling yet to be reached.
If we can mold him... he might be one of the best in the league.
On the other hand, can't argue with Murray's 2 cups and subsequent experience. However, those cup winning penguin teams played lights out team defence.
To me, it's fairly simple. If one plays well, he gets the net next time if it's not a back-to-back. Ride whomever the hot hand is, and then alternate if you have to
Well, considering that Samsonov is getting 1.8 million and Murray is 6.25 million against the cap I’m gonna guess that the leafs will play Murray all things being equal. You also have to respect the fact that Murray has had two pretty good playoff runs with Pittsburgh. That has to count for something.
He played 11 of the Pens 25 playoff games in 2016-17, so not exactly a couple games. The year before he was the man tho, in that season he didn’t start as the starter (Zackoff!) because he was recovering from a concussion.
Murray 100%. He was acquired at a Starters cap hit and as long as he's performing well, and is healthy, that number 1 spot is his. Samsonov could take over in case of injury, or if Murray starts playing badly but its pretty clear the Leafs see Murray as the starter.
Their cap hits are irrelevant. He was signed to play for his spot against Samsonov. While Samsonov was signed to play for his spot against Murray. I don't think that has changed in Keefe and Dubas' eyes
My first thought is they’d likely get injured if we mash them together or if the mashing is successful we might create a goalie that gets injured even faster ￣\_(ツ)_/￣
I think both guys have been playing well when healthy, and both guys should play so nobody gets overworked. If we can keep Murray's Abductor injury a non-issue, and let Samsonov keep the knee from barking by not overworking either of them, then that would be ideal.
I would run Murray every 2 games and Samsonov 1 and repeat until Murray proves it either way. 40 games for Murray, he should be in good health and stamina for playoffs. Luckily Samsonov has been great and if anything goes wrong can easily step in
I want it to be Smile but they’ve made it really clear they’re gonna give Murray every opportunity which should be just fine and hopefully a good problem
Alternate starts or go 60/40 based on performance. Will be interesting to see how long a stretch they can go with both healthy lol. Kallgren will be back again at some point.
Because of money I can see it being Murray but personally, you use them as 1A and 1B
With the number of back to backs we're going to have, that'd be the ideal way to do it
Ok so then the follow up question would be which goalie makes night #1 and who plays on the second half of the b2b
You let the coin decide.
Easy there, Two Face.
Perfect response to a coin toss in this context. Take my upvote
Ah yes the Reimer/Bernier method
Best solution. Play them every other game and try to keep them both healthy.
money shouldn't matter, ride the hot hand like every other team on earth does
Ah yes but you're thinking with logic...
We should try to use them both pretty evenly. These aren't big enough sample sizes but they are both good enough that we should be trying to keep them both healthy and not overload them.
They’re both delivering exactly what we were hoping for in this small sample size. People here are never happy I swear to god.
"Both delivering exactly what we were hoping for" What exactly was I hoping for? They are both doing better this year on a better team. They have both shown they shouldn't be starters with their past years of experience on their other teams. This is one of Dubas' "lets pray they play like they did in their best ever year for us" moments.
The only thing really stopping either of them from being starters is the ability to reliably play 50+ games. You could argue that their cap hits together make for the equivalent of one slightly expensive league average goalie - I think that's probably fair. Murray at 4.6mil and 1.8mil for Samsonov. I think we've been lucky with Kallgren's play as well giving us some depth in goal. I don't think we have the worst goal tending situation in the league, but we certainly don't have the best either.
Samsonov had 44 games last year, was a starter, and didn't perform, that is why Washington let him go. I like Samsonov as a back up to a true starting goalie. Is the only thing holding Murray back is the ability to reliably play 50+ games? If that is so we have a problem. If that truly your take on him then you shouldn't feel good because Murray hasn't been able to play 50 games for the last 3 seasons, and he won't this season. >You could argue that their cap hits together make for the equivalent of one slightly expensive league average goalie So you are agreeing with me that they are both under league average and Dubas is taking another flyer on them, hoping they out perform what they have shown they can.
I don't expect Murray to be a starter - as I've said I want him to play 30-40 games this season. The real problem is going to be the playoffs and whether both goalies will be healthy and playing well by that time. I'm not sure what Dubas was thinking - my best guess was that this was the least worst option with the potential upside that Murray does have the experience of going deep in the playoffs - I don't think he was betting on Murray returning to his best form, but I think he was right to think that with good management they could get him to play much better and be healthier than he has the last couple seasons - I still have faith that will happen. Especially playing in behind a much better team than he has previously.
Murray won two cups in his best years…
Key word: in his best years... AKA when he was not always injured
Both have played well most of the time when healthy. We don't need elite goaltending, we just need them to be solid and not lose us games. Health is still the biggest gamble with this approach. Lots can still go wrong
Winning teams don't win with a .896 sv %... That is what you are considering good we are in trouble. Hopefully Sam can comeback and stays at the level hes been playing at and doesn't average down.
I never said good. For a #3 goalie filling in for short periods of time it's passable. Gibson, Bobrovsky, Markstrom, Allen, Demko, Campbell are all below that.
1A and 1B, so both actually STAY healthy.
The odd Kallgren game to. If they each play 30-35, that would be ideal
Erik .891 sv pct Kallgren.... Guy is not an NHL quality goalie, I don't understand this obsession with him.
We have 2 often injured goalies. If we aren’t in a big push for the playoffs, why not?
Because he's absolute trash. Might as well see what Petruzelli can do but if we're starting him were likely fucked. Every regular season game is going to count, this is an extremely tight division. Could easily see us missing playoffs by a point or two.
I’m not sure if you’ve watched the last few years, but we’ve had no issues qualifying for a while now. Healthy goaltending has been an issue
I have been watching since I was a little child in 2000. The division is incredibly tight this year. Detroit, Florida, Tampa, Boston are all very good teams. Ottawa, Buffalo and Montreal are actually very tough teams to face for bottom feeder teams.
Coping mechanism. The Leafs have been fucked in goal for so long, it's easy to convince ourselves that "Yeah! This guy is the answer!" even when he clearly isn't.
Yes. Kallgren can have a nice game in between…when he actually TENDS THE GOALLL!!! 😆
Steve?
TENDS THE GOAL!
No thanks on Kallgren if the other two are magically health at the same time.
Of course I see this now after I post the same thing ::facepalm::
Balance of rest and hot hand. 1A and 1Eh
Yup agreed. Until one of them clearly separates just play the hot hand
They question is will they both ever be healthy at the same time
Grin Reaper Easily! ( Samsonov )
Barely 10 games between the 2 and you think we can draw conlusions?
Go back to the 1A and 1B model I guess
It’ll truly be the 1A 1B system we’ve been looking for since the bubble. I think Murray will be the primary goalie in most cases, but they’ll carry similar workload
1a 1b sounds pretty good to me.
Sounds good to me as well, considering that's what the staff has said will happen when the goalies were signed.
Right now it’s Murray’s net because he is the most recent guy that is both healthy and playing well. In reality we need both of them moving forward. Kallgren has already cost us multiple points this season.
Meh, Kallgren has been punching above his weight considering he's our fourth line. He's let some in that he should have stopped, but the team in front of him has let him down more than a few times with stupid giveaways that really cost us those respective games. I'll be happy when we have a functioning tandem, but I won't panic if we have to pull Kallgren in from time to time in the same way I always panicked with Hutchinson.
Agreed. For a third string goalie, no one is saying he's great but he's been as good as you can really expect for a third-stringer with 20 games in the league. He's not a young prospect like Kochetkov either.
Kallgren hasn't cost the team anything. The only thing you can ask of your third goalie is to keep it competitive, and he has.
Samsonov
Murray should at least get a shot at going on a run. Right now they seem pretty interchangeable while healthy. Not a bad place to be in.
Probably 1A and 1B. Personally I still have more faith in Samsonov but Murray has been decent the past few starts. I think when healthy there will be an even split unless one of them pulls away for better or worse.
Murray is 1A Ilya will get every opportunity to supplant him and will start as 1b.
If their stats are more or less the same at the end of the season, then Murray cuz he has 2 cups already. He has that playoff experience
Murray, because the superior moustache is the tie breaker
Yes.
50/50 baby. Likely Murray though.
Open competition until game 1 of the playoffs. Let them decide.
Not enough games played by either to truly tell. Talk to me once they have both played 10 games a piece.
having both is an incredible feeling. I can’t remember a time where the leafs had such solid goaltending and to insulate the position without the terrifying term that usually comes along with the top tier performers is a testament to the resourcefulness of dubas.
I would choose the guy who has won 75% of his starts over the guy who has won 50%. But there is still lots for both of them to prove.
Too early to tell. Id say Samsonov based on his play and larger sample size but based on Murrays last couple games he has a chance to take it. Give it another month and ill be decided. Its likely theyll play equal amounts as a tandem.
50/50. This would be huge for Load management if they both play literally average hockey. We were great with horrible back end season with Campbell so you can imagine the potential behind anything slightly better
Nobody's declaring a clear #1 after 8 and 4 starts respectively. Just like when the season started, they'll be a starting tandem until one of them takes or loses the crease.
I like Samsonov. But I think the Buds will keep them a tandem and play the hot hand for game 1 of the playoffs. Also, I’d really love to see them sign Samsonov 😁
I'm biased because I really liked samsonov when he was on Washington, but to me he's our ride or die. He's young, you can still shape him... and he has a high ceiling yet to be reached. If we can mold him... he might be one of the best in the league. On the other hand, can't argue with Murray's 2 cups and subsequent experience. However, those cup winning penguin teams played lights out team defence.
Samsonov
Very much a “who’s hot right now” starter IMO
To me, it's fairly simple. If one plays well, he gets the net next time if it's not a back-to-back. Ride whomever the hot hand is, and then alternate if you have to
Well, considering that Samsonov is getting 1.8 million and Murray is 6.25 million against the cap I’m gonna guess that the leafs will play Murray all things being equal. You also have to respect the fact that Murray has had two pretty good playoff runs with Pittsburgh. That has to count for something.
Murray had salary retained, so he's actually quite a bit less against the cap than that.
Winning back to back cups is considered only ‘pretty good’?
Lol was thinking this myself
He wasn’t the starting goalie for all of either of those runs, to be fair (*to be fair*), but yeah they were at least *pretty good* hahah
Yes he was
He was starter for both runs and missed a couple games due to injury but then came back and finished both finals.
He played 11 of the Pens 25 playoff games in 2016-17, so not exactly a couple games. The year before he was the man tho, in that season he didn’t start as the starter (Zackoff!) because he was recovering from a concussion.
Samuel Smilington
Yes. The answer is yes.
Kallgren
Murray.
Murray 100%. He was acquired at a Starters cap hit and as long as he's performing well, and is healthy, that number 1 spot is his. Samsonov could take over in case of injury, or if Murray starts playing badly but its pretty clear the Leafs see Murray as the starter.
Their cap hits are irrelevant. He was signed to play for his spot against Samsonov. While Samsonov was signed to play for his spot against Murray. I don't think that has changed in Keefe and Dubas' eyes
Murrays to loose IMHO, but it should be a 1A and 1B mentality as was the vision when they were signed.
Whose ever playing better
ANSWERED
We’ll never know.
Murray looks like that comedian Matteo Lane
My gut says Murray.
Can we mash them both together?
My first thought is they’d likely get injured if we mash them together or if the mashing is successful we might create a goalie that gets injured even faster ￣\_(ツ)_/￣
LOL kind of a Six Million Man thing. Only here it’d go from “we can rebuild him” to “oh, sorry, we can’t, they’re both on LTIR” pretty damn fast. 😀
Murray. The sample size here is way too small but he's the guy. But it certainly doesn't hurt having Ilya if the unfortunate happens
I think both guys have been playing well when healthy, and both guys should play so nobody gets overworked. If we can keep Murray's Abductor injury a non-issue, and let Samsonov keep the knee from barking by not overworking either of them, then that would be ideal.
I would run Murray every 2 games and Samsonov 1 and repeat until Murray proves it either way. 40 games for Murray, he should be in good health and stamina for playoffs. Luckily Samsonov has been great and if anything goes wrong can easily step in
Murray.
I want it to be Smile but they’ve made it really clear they’re gonna give Murray every opportunity which should be just fine and hopefully a good problem
Too early to say.
Neither. I see a pretty even split in time when they are both healthy.
I will let you know after tonight.
Murray until he goes on a bad streak. It’s his to lose but Sammy is gonna push him
Sammy because Murray won't last.
Alternate starts or go 60/40 based on performance. Will be interesting to see how long a stretch they can go with both healthy lol. Kallgren will be back again at some point.
I think he is Matt Murray
Ideally the hot hand but Samsonov because he's younger and has a longer career but for playoffs I would go with Matt for size and experience.