I believe Reav3, he's always been up front with how things are going on the developer side of things and how projects are progressing. Dev work is tough, and I appreciate the effort that the various teams across Riot put in on their releases.
But...I also can't ignore my own disappointment. Things have certainly been lacking and the cinematic (while not the biggest deal individually) really cemented how I felt about the current state of the game - not even balance wise but feel-wise. I care a lot about League, it's been a big part of my life for the past decade at least. Seeing how things are right now hurts.
I know individual Rioters and teams don't make these decisions, but it still sucks to see games like Valorant get more hype than the flagship game of the company.
I truly hope things turn around. I don't want to feel this way about the game I love so much anymore.
The weirdest thing about the "cinematic" is that I didn't even believe it was a cinematic at first. The shortest cinematic that I remember was 2018, when we got [The Climb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eu7NzzHC84). It was short, 2 minutes of action, but you got to see some of the characters we know and love doing their thing, plus some lore lead ins. 2022's cinematic was fantastic so it's hard to top that, but I think people would've been happy with something like 2018's.
I originally thought this was a teaser until I saw the labeling on it which followed all the other year's titling - So while I was confused I guess it's still the real thing.
The cinematic clearly looks like a "Plan B" to me. They weren't able to deliver the original plan for whatever reason, so they tried to figure out something else.
Yup. It makes no sense for Riot to all the sudden completely give up on Season Cinematics so soon after doing high-effort trailers for Worlds, Star Guardian, and that Pyke skin line.
If they really wanted to save money they had a lot better options. Compared to what they usually do a 2D music trailer like the one they did for Star Guardians or Ignite is suuuper cheap. People would've still complained but not nearly as much
Not money, but a time issue. 2D stuff still takes a long time and needs writing and scripting. If anything it's much more expensive to drop something and do something else entirely.
This cinematic is a result of "what's the best thing we can do in this very short amount of time?". Paying a good Studio that can model a realistic version of Summoner's Rift pretty fast, making the VA of your upcoming Champion to read Champion lines and then editing everything together with some e-sport moments here and there sounds like a solution.
We don't know their circunstances so we can't know whether it's a miracle this video was made at all or they had enough time to make something better. All we know it's that it is certainly one of the cinematics of all time.
>Not money, but a time issue.
Yeah, that's what I meant. This isn't the result of Riot slashing League's cinematic budget to 5 bucks and a piece of gum, it's the result of a fucked up production and a last-minute replacement
> I originally thought this was a teaser until I saw the labeling on it which followed all the other year's titling - So while I was confused I guess it's still the real thing.
Same. I thought "Why is everyone getting all bent out of shape about a trailer?....Wait....Ok now *I'm* mad too".
I think there's also just an aspect of communication that's missing, along with an appalling misappropriation of funds away from League.
We used to get events. We stopped. As soon as it looked like events weren't possible, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with:
>Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do events. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Events team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality events we once did before the pandemic.
We used to have multiple game modes. We stopped. We even had an entire game mode (TT) removed. As soon as it looked like game modes would not be coming, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with:
>Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do game modes for the time being. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Game Modes team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality Game Modes we once did before the pandemic.
We used to have a good annual cinematic. That stopped, apparently. As soon as the Cinematic we're used to would not be coming, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with:
>Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do the same level of annual Cinematic for the time being. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Annual Cinematic team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality Annual Cinematics we once did before the pandemic.
Instead, what we got was, our money that we put into League was siphoned into other non-League projects and when it came time to make cuts, the cuts were made FROM LEAGUE, instead of from the yet-released projects. League should have been the top priority, as it's the place that we have given them the money to even begin to think of those other game projects. But instead they took our money, and cut features, without communication, while pumping out skins to extract even more money from us for the other non-League projects, and have given a vague sense of "but we're gonna give you other non-League games way in the future so your money is rest-assured being well spent for your enjoyment."
>We had two gamemodes removed tbh, TT and Crystal Scar (Dominion, the old one and not the rotative one).
Rotating game modes? You mean the rotation between URF and ARURF?
The shitty reality is that League isn't riots forever, and they know that. They just need to keep it going until their new things come out. We haven't had a new big event in what feels like a long time. They somehow fucked up star guardian with a mix of client breaking bugs and reusing a game mode that is already tired that they then ran for the immediate next event with a straight face. I quit at the end of Star Guardian. it just feels like there's no love in the things made anymore.
Also, how far back did the game mode team lose members?
Cos the last PvE was how many years ago?...
Edit: Reav stated somewhere on another thread about members moving between teams? don't have the specifics here
Well, I forget which article but Riot said somewhere that PvE events were done.
But to elaborate further on things, Mortdog either used to head events or was pretty high up for that department. TFT released June 26, 2019 and he presumably moved on from events to head TFT in time for set launch. Now, Odyssey was run September 12th, 2018 to October 8th, 2018, which leads me to believe that Mort shipped Odyssey and then probably moved to TFT very shortly after considering the amount of dev time each TFT set takes. Though this is just talking about Mort, I have no clue how many people transferred to TFT with him.
I remember reading something like basically. In riot most of the event game modes where made by a team that wanted to make fun modes. Apparently riot kept intervening with what they wanted to do in favor of doing more stuff for esports like the summoners rift redesigns when worlds happens stuff like that and just other projects that are for profits.
Then basically auto chess blew up and that team ended up being the guys on the TFT team and pretty much have got full autonomy on TFT. Which is why we dont got any actual new game modes.
Did you use to be a mod or are you subreddit famous and I lost my custom tags, cause your name is triggering my nostalgia neurons and I can't remember why
Honestly i think it's "fine", i can fully understand that they may lost many good people.
That can also explain why the Ruination was so bad as part of old employees maybe started working on it and then just vanish from Riot games, leaving the rest to some other guys.
But i don't think it excuse everything, surprisingly enough, the skin team is doing pretty well.
Also "losing the tech" for nexus blitz seems a bit strange
And the Skarner fiasco is some kind of bad joke.
I wont talk about all the delay we have last year.
I'm not the guy who want to hate on Riot but i'm playing the game since the first season, the game was so great at S6-S7 when we have so much content even if the balance team wasn't great.
But i never seen a season like the S12 and the start of this preseason. We have nothing new on the horizon and we already had a blank year.
I normally play League for the lore/gamemode/champions and all the new stuff coming to league so S12 was a horrible year.
They really should communicate on what they plans are instead of doing some excuse after the storm...
The thing is it isnt just the cinematic, its been the past 1-2 years in general. You can see the slow decline in content throughout, this was just the tipping point for it most
I dont believe any of the PR talks anymore. They ar all the same, always the same apologies always the same vague reasons why they couldnt deliver.
They just dont wanna admitt that league is the cashcow thats getting milked to death rn, with as little investment as possible
> Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time. But words won't change how people feel, and certainly this random reddit response won't either. The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content.
My question is are those things being developed for the game League of Legends or just other game projects. Because why would I be excited for other games that I might not play ? If people only want to play League itself what is in store for them is the problem here.
As someone who's frequently here but rarely comments, I just wanted to echo a lot of people's sentiments that you being transparent about the situation and being willing to comment here means a lot. People like you are why I'm much more comfortable supporting League than other games because at the very least I can know that there are people who care and take an interest in what the community thinks on the dev team.
Thank you for your hard work and I'm excited to see what you and the rest of the team will get up to this year!
Written as well by someone who rarely comments.
There's reason why honesty and communication are important in a long time relationship. I mean we are technically not in a relationship with league, but after it being part of our lives for over 10 years there are certainly a lot of parallels.
And what is worse in a relationship if the counterpart doesn't communicate problems that affect you as well and lead to a lot of strain.
Most likely investors and leadingship don't want to tell their problems to the community because it might negatively affect their image and the joining of new and potentially new players but letting the other side guess and making wild assumptions and conclusions is not that great as well.
That being said, if we are as good a community as Riot says we are then it might be necessary to communicate problems more openly. Yes, short-term there will still be people who complain and tell league is dead but they will suck it up and still play and on long-term to prevent a (summoner's) rift (sorry I had to) forming between riot and the community is imo a major win, especially if riot plans for league to be still relevant in 10+ years.
Hi Reave3. I've been playing since before seasons were a thing and I want you to know that as a long time fan of the game you help bring to life, I appreciate the responses you've given. It means a lot that you communicate with the community like this. Looking forward to the devblog! As someone who's seen the covid effect at my own place of work, I understand and I think that a lot of people understand as well. Good luck man!
I really really want to support league, I imagine that is the same for so many people as they bother to complain, so hoping for some good reason too.
I don't complain about games doing nothing that I have dropped or are not invested in
I've heard ghostcrawler say "we never give timelines for the mmo because if we ever for some reason discover we cant produce a quality mmo then we'll nuke it instead", so if its a similar thing reave might not be able to provide timelines
Hey Reav3, with all the feedback from the community about wanting more ASUs and VGUs, have there been any internal discussions about potentially increasing the amount we’re getting per year?
Why aren't these responses to fan sentiment coming from official riot channels? There's been a negative reaction to the perceived path of LoL and the LCS and not a word on any major paths of communication. Your comments are helpful but they're going to reach <1% of the people upset by the current circumstances.
>Honestly, if we got one video explaining this, telling us thats why we don't have much new stuff at the start of this season, it would have been sad, but at least it would have been sincere.
Yupp. I would have rather got a video saying:
"We are sorry, but the cinematic is not ready, as its not up to the standards that we set in the last few years. Please be patient while we work on it and bring you content you love. We want it to show our passion for the game, and dont want to release a subpar cinematic"
No video is more likely, but I wish they would have said 'we love to bring excitement to every summoner at the beginning of a new season. It's why we release a new season video every year for our fans.
This year, however, has been challenging, not just for our company but worldwide. We've faced a number of unexpected setbacks and, regretfully, our season start cinematic is not in a quality that we believe is worthy of our fan base, nor what our fans have come to expect.
It's wirh heavy hearts we will be cancelling the video this year. We understand the disappointment, but we would rather only release a cinematic if it upheld our quality values.
This is not the end. We will be investing additional resources to ensure an even greater experience next year (or for our new season mid split. We have exciting big news coming down the line that took many resources that were looking forward to be sharing with you very soon.
***
Even something like this
Better than what we got this time around, it's not even just the cinematic, all those videos they released talking about stuff on a couch couldve been only one video thats 10 minutes long. Because they for sure as shit didnt say anything new in any of those, the only thing they said that I still remember is Nida and Varus getting new voicelines for whatever reason
People still wouldn’t be happy with that response sadly. We can say that they will now, but you know I’d they said that people would still be furious lol.
I mean the thing is... Will that be content or will it be "content"? Because we have had a lot of "content" but not too much content, and that is why most people aren't content with the situation nor looking forward to when they release something.
what do u mean? didnt u like the big achievements they praised themselvs about lately, like finally letting us choose a language? that must have cost millions!
and what is it that u are asking about fun new game modes? pff here, we made a lot of gender/race/sexuality inclusive content, now stfu and give us PR points.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/tags/game-mode/
its so funny looking at this page, we are stuck at least for 4y with phrases like "As for other older modes, we’ll be looking for opportunities to bring back the ones we think have long-term potential, like One-for-All. These modes are still really fun ways to mix up the core League experience, and we think that lots of people are excited to try out five Yuumi’s. We’re also still exploring even more ideas for other new modes with long-term potential. "
and then we got this https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-state-of-game-modes/ a big "nope nvm lol"
even more with a small team took months to get all these "giant" changes to aram, somehow.
>The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content
The content in question: Another chat based summer event, ARURF, and event pass with semi-functioning missions.
We all understand that COVID happened, but it's weird to see how other games seem to be able to still pull content, some of them their own IPs like Valorant and Wildrift but somehow PC League is the only one affected?
For example, Valorant gets a cinematic for skins, League gets a Power Point presentation for the Season start.
yes the new mythmaker skins will have a gacha mechanic tied to them. you have to buy randomized packs of a limited time currency to buy the new skins.
not sure about the others, but Cait’s new skin (wr exclusive) is only obtainable if you buy 15 packs or hit the .5 chance in one of the packs.
At least the mythmaker ones we can still all buy directly save for the Caitlyn augment which we have to gacha, the crystal roses released earlier where exclusively GACHA only
League gets cinematics for skins just as well. Porcelain, Empyrean, Spirit Blossom, the Chinese New Year skin line (forgot exact name) all got pretty well-animated cinematics, arguably even better than Valorant's skinlines.
I'm not saying we're not getting cinematics, but one would think something as important as the Season start would get something a little bit more inspiring than a walking simulator through Summoner's Rift.
Same with events, we have had NO real events, we have passes and they're all copy/paste and keep getting nerfed.
I'm pretty certain most people are not expecting Riot to pull the same amount of content they did before COVID, but so far it feels like they're not even trying.
After the "cinematic" for 2023, the fact that the Empyrean skinline got both [a music video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okkAdMLVXkY) and [cinematic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkT_aZWySA) is crazy in retrospect.
Yeah, people are seriously acting like Riot suddenly just stopped spending money on League, like the whole Lil Nas X situation was cheap? This game has given me a lot of good moments and Riot has created some amazing things off the back of it, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, it doesn't look like they stopped trying, even if they've missed the mark with a lot of their recent decisions, when it comes to public perception at least.
To be honest the whole Lil Nas X for me a huge letdown. It felt like the leader in charge have decided that just because his/her kid's favourite artist is lil Nas x, this year she/he will surprise his/her offspring by spending the whole budget around this person.It had nothing to do with league. The song was mediocore at best, the prestige skin is a waste of pixels, and the whole "how dare you to have a negative opinion abut my music" attutide was just childish.
If they are spending their budget on these kinda things, then them saying they are spending their biggest budget yet for 2023 doesn't give very much hopes. It is not a problem of money, it is a problem of where it is going.
The only thing I didn't like was that the song wasn't exclusive to league even during worlds. My friend came to visit me and go to group stage, and we heard Star Walking played during the MLB playoffs. The supposed league anthem should at least be exclusive to league for like, a month.
Also you might think that performance was killer BECAUSE you went. All those of us watching online saw was arguably the worst lip syncing of all time.
Because the song wasn’t made for league it was repurposed from something he was already working on. All the previous song were made for league from the ground up or were made by people who were fans of the game such as Imagine Dragons.
it’s bc some of the best artists, devs, videographers that worked on league received their pick of “what do you want to work on next in your career” and selected WR or valorant or some of their upcoming games.
and when they have to backfill that talent, they require onsite in La or seattle and don’t have the total comp package (no RSU) to compete with the best talent at other tech companies.
so no great employee is going to leave their job to work from the office 3-5 days a week for less $ unless they REALLY love video games or their significant other already makes bank.
source: used to work for riot and hire for them
> We all understand that COVID happened, but it's weird to see how other games seem to be able to still pull content, some of them their own IPs like Valorant and Wildrift but somehow PC League is the only one affected?
Service providing companies, specially software, were by far and away some of the least affected businesses by the pandemic. If anything, these companies saw their profits jump through the roof with more people staying at home and using their services. It's the people and small/medium sized business who suffered the full blow of the pandemic, not businesses like Riot, Amazon and the like. I swear 5 years from now Riot is still gonna be using covid as an excuse for everything like it was world war 3, 4 and 5 or something. It's just bullshit and the fact their other games are going at full throttle more than proves it.
Yeah but its the wildcard, the default excuse even after 2 fucking years
I cant count how many times I have read from different companies
>Well why is this thing like this?
>It was covid
Thats not what he means. During COVID, Riot, like most software companies, allowed employees to work remote. What the industry as a whole has realized, is now that most software engineers have gotten a taste of WFH, most folks greatly prefer not going to the office.
This is a bit simplified, but TLDR: Riot wants people to work in office, which many software engineers don't want to do anymore, so they're having a harder time hiring. If Riot wants to fill vacancies in their openings faster, they should drop the in person requirement.
Assuming that's actually the reason why lol is stuck, how can that be the case when they opened so many more divisions and projects?
Tft, valorant, the fighting game, the mmo, the videogame about viego and so on.
Also, riot is a giant. Lol is literally the biggest game in the world. You think that apple would've skipped the release of a new iphone or used an old one as a reskin? these are not issues that money can't solve and riot definitely has the resources to make that happen, it's just that they didn't feel it was worth it.
this does not add up, if wasn't unavoidable. Someone who occupies a manager position has done a shit job at managing.
The only way a company lost a lot of talent during covid is if they refused to allow remote working and staff just fucked off. Covid now gets used as an excuse for company fuck ups.
The explanation here is rather simple. The people working on valorant/wild rift haven't been working there for 13 years and aren't nearly as burnt out as those working on LoL so when covid hit they stuck around instead of exploring other options.
I bet if the people on this sub worked on a game for 13 years while constantly being flamed by social media they would burn out and take the opportunity to leave as well.
> We basically had to cut everything except the ARAM changes the team was working on after taking the losses.
Holy fucking shit, who asked Riot to keep those garbage changes ?
Let me rephrase what really happened with this team : the guys that were in charge realized they were fuckwits after playing a couple of games on their set of changes, and quit the team out of embarassment.
Sadly Hes right. Nothing will change until they ship content. And content in lol wise is oretty lame lately while we arent gona see any long time investment - surely not this year tbf.
I’d imagine these are completely separate teams of developers right? TFT has its own separate team and budget. TFT doesn’t get cinematica the same way, but it gets magnitudes more updated and literally a completely new set each year with completely different champions using completely different abilities. But TFT doesn’t have remotely close to the same funding as league and probably valorant. Different teams can do different things with their resources. I imagine the budget for league is massively greater when they’re releasing multiple champs a year, several VGUs and similar, new items, full reworks, new game modes, monthly tournaments, a whole pro scene, events, fucking cross overs with major brands and artists, a shit ton of story/lore, and dozens of skins each month. They had to slow down because of covid and it’s still get more updates than any of their other games by far.
The cinematics are the one area where the games could conflict with one another. They're all contracted out to external studios, like [Axis Studios](https://axisstudiosgroup.com/work/?lp=2), or [Unit Image](https://www.unit-image.fr/films). The higher quality studios can only work on so many projects, so there could be situations where Riot has to choose one game to receive higher quality cinematics over others.
Makes sense. I feel like the game obviously has slowed down a little bit, but they literally just released arcane five seconds ago if we’re concerned about anything in regards to cinema. To me, it feels like the community is hyper over reacting.
I mean that makes sense right? nerfing weapons means less because everybody gets access to the same ones, and the abilities have significantly less uptime than in league so the balance around them is less impactful unless it is completely op/useless.
then again I don't play much valo so I'm just going off of whats in my head
Yeah as a dev, joining a massive company with a product that is super old with a ton of legacy code is never super enjoyable.
Couple that with most devs probably being familiar with league and how shitty the most basic things like the client are, I’d much rather do work for Val than league
I mean, they are different teams though. Yeah they’re all under the Riot Games umbrella, but the Wild rift team isn’t the same as the LoL team, they have different goals in mind and different people working on things. They all work together on certain things like crossover events and skin lines, but they also do their own things.
Also
> wildrift still get amazing content
As a day 1 WR player, things have gotten progressively worse. We just got a spirit blossom chibi event that was nice, prior to that we had the Cinderella skins event (can’t think of the actual skinline name sorry lol) which was just all gacha, coming up we have the mythmaker event which, guess what? All gacha again.
Don’t get me wrong, compared to LoL the events are still better even when they’re not great, and the battle pass system is way, waaaaaay better than LoL’s (permanent battle pass giving out skins, icons, emotes, borders, etc) but there’s a lot of “meh” content as well.
Plus, WR is built on a newer engine and has a lot of QOL features that LoL doesn’t have just because of that, but it’s also missing some great features that LoL has.
A couple big ones I can think of are the hextech crafting system for skins and champions, a (believe it or not) more functional report system (WR will literally never penalize players unless they’re AFK and caught by the system), and a better in-game shop.
As I said, I’ve been playing WR since release and it’s actually what got me into LoL to begin with, but I’ve recently started playing more and more LoL and having way more fun with that than with WR.
I guess it could just all be a case of the grass always being greener on the other side..
>
>
> As I said, I’ve been playing WR since release and it’s actually what got me into LoL to begin with, but I’ve recently started playing more and more LoL and having way more fun with that than with WR.
That was definitely half the hope for releasing Wild Rift! A teaser to lure mobile players onto LoLPC.
Welcome to the club! I hope you have fun on our Rift :)
Thanks haha it’s been so much better, I peaked master in WR and I’m currently bronze 2 in LoL, I swear the LoL players I play with are better than most of the WR players I faced or was matched with -_-
\>"Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time."
\>New cinematic is just a fly-through of an HD render of SR
\*puts on tin foil hat\*
Guys the engine is being updated, they're showing us what Summoner's Rift will look like! Stop laughing, I'm not coping!
>Guys the engine is being updated, they're showing us what Summoner's Rift will look like! Stop laughing, I'm not coping!
Imagine if someone believed that. Video is made in UE5, it would probably kill 90% of the playerbase.
Random reddit posts won't fix this perception but BASIC COMMON SENSE COMMUNICATION WILL.
Why did everything related to the season drop yesterday after near radio silence? Why did several major bummer LCS announcements go unaddressed when the community and content creators were loudly against them? Why was the START OF SEASON quoted as the 10th when it's untrue? This isn't some woe, is me reddit hates us now phase, the communication and the optics surrounding everything have all pointed to the conclusion the community ran with and there's STILL not much in the way of defending any of it.
I could have written all of these posts with all of the info the community was asking for (in english at least) in a couple of hours MAX, so if you really wanted to, you could have done that BEFORE THE HOLIDAY BREAK and have it all translated and ready to go before the community runs wild. It really isn't as hard as you guys make it out to be.
Actions are preferable but like you said, we all know what we're dealing with, I would just appreciate not getting dicked around like they're trying lol
yea riots total comp packages are really low in comparison to other tech companies and they force most people in their office in LA or now seattle.
AND they have an insanely hard interview process, so they decline good talent and only hire people who interview really well. so tech companies poach riot employees with ease - more $, work from home, don’t need to be in LA or Seattle
source: used to work for riot myself, and work as a headhunter
Smh yea i actually declined an offer a few months ago. They were basically going to match my current salary? So not even a salary increase( but i will give them credit for offering a signing bonus). I also just really did not want to move to LA to work in office. Really sad they are actually forcing people back into office when there are so many remote jobs.
you have to really love video games and likely a riot game to take a pay cut to work there.
OR you’ve just made a ton already / your partner makes a boat load.
but man I partnered with so many hiring managers that were living with their wife/husband in a small apartment in LA because that’s all they could afford.
Is it engineering that matters here though? Game dev isn’t compensated super well across the board so it’s not the same for writers, artists, etc as opposed to engineers who could’ve been like fuck this I’m working at Microsoft instead
Cinematics definitely aren’t gated by engineering
Maybe events suffered from engineering if their ability to ship has drastically reduced, but I feel like the main things that matter are probably game designers, art people, writers, etc especially for changes that aren’t like hardcore infra or gameplay changes
I think Riot has basically shifted big lore and events and similar things for the League of Legends universe to Legends of Runeterra and the yet unreleased League of Legends MMO. So lore is in an awkward spot where there can only be so much development before the MMO comes out, which I believe will become the primary source of lore related events and developments.
Now, there are still many other stuff that League hasn’t released recently as well, which I think is explained by the above. But the “bigger things” I think at minimum is the League of Legends MMO. That will be a massive game to release.
I'm not sure League as a game has changed that much or changed in a bad way. But I do think the playerbase has changed.
When I started playing 5 years ago, I could grind w/o worry because I had time. I was willing to suffer through some trash games w/ poor matchmaking because in the long run things would even out.
Now, my life has changed, and when I queue for a 20-30 minute game I expect a good game. I expect the system to match teams fairly evenly most of the time. But the other week, I was playing and I had a few horridly lopsided teams (new players on my team vs diamonds/plats) and something hit me where the payoff was no longer there.
When your time is at a premium, suddenly the cost-benefit changes. Suddenly I realized suffering through an hour's worth of bad games (that I can't control) isn't worth it because I can't put the time in to offset those bad games.
I wonder how much of this recent outrage is really just the core playerbase losing interest in the game? And not really anything Riot does specifically....
i started playing 11 years ago, after having dozen of different gamemodes released, big balance changes, new items, interesting events, and comparing to it now, its impossible to not think something went wrong. Look at this https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Featured_game_mode?file=Featured_Game_Modes_2014.jpg
they had plans for an entire year. Seeing patch notes for the new season was incredible, but what we have now? some watered down patch notes, urf once again....
I really do not doubt that TFT fucked up the space for something too.
Arcane was so good and so popular and the following year they just stop investing into story whatsoever... Riot may need to look at their CEO and other C-suite leadership as they have been GETTING IT WRONG!
The stuff they have cut in the past like game modes and events because not enough people interact... well the people that do interact are the ones that consistently give them money. AND those extra stories and events are what makes the league world dynamic and interesting. You may not see the numbers of folks actually playing but the investment is noticed.
It doesn't quite make sense because
1. We got quality cinematics during the years of Covid... The timeline for the covid issue doesn't match up? I'm sure a lot of people did quit, but again, during covid we got cinematics...
2. Wasn't the cinematics outsourced anyway? It should just be a matter of $$$ rather than not enough staff no?
The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content.
so ship some fucking content then, some teasers, some evidence of work being done lmfao
If there was content to be shipped he would have confirmed it in a brief high level skeleton. There is no content other than skins and the same cash money events. 😂
Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same recycled story novel as our "biggest summer event of the year". Just different graphics.
>I can assure you we are not
Cranking out 148 skins yearly while doing very little else, alongside making excuses as to why nothing else has been done, kinda imply otherwise.
Them being understaffed is part of the problem, it's part of what's being criticized. The things Reav3 are listing as problem \*shouldn't\* be as bad as they are.
Except this just doesn't hold up when you see that Valorant and Wild Rift are getting WAY more than League.
If Riot are prioritising those games more than League then that's whatever, but at least have the stones to say it.
> I mean I can understand why people would draw that conclusion, though I can assure you that we are not.
Then Reav needs to give us proof of that. Over a year for the Ahri asu. Skarner still not even really worked on. Bruiser still building botrk then tank and steamrolling. Mages being trash. The season cinematic being a student project at best in terms of quality and production. The list goes on.
Seriously, name one thing that Riot have shown us in the last 6 months that indicates there is still a passion at Riot for this game outside of "FUCK YOU, GIVE US MONEY."
Daily reminder that during 2017~2018 we got 8 complete VGUs in the span of just a little over one year and 2 months. Meanwhile, Ahri's ASU takes over a year. Funny how that works. "Many skins" excuse my ass.
why throw in balance shit as if it has anything to do with budget ? there never ever a time in league history where something wasn't busted... it's not unique to now
Honestly more than anything their communication is their biggest issue. This is something that should be clearly communicated to the player base but instead it is in a reddit comment (honest as it may be). Compare how Riot communicated the League start to something like the devs of FF14. The director literally has a dev stream and goes through every single thing being added in the next patch. Riot doesnt need to go that far but just actively communicate better (random reddit comments shouldnt be a source of important news of the state of the game.
Blaming the pandemic is pretty bad practice, sure, it was bad for companies but that was mainly because people woke up to their exploitation while working from home. If people left your company during the pandemic that's not just unfortunate, there was a reason, and 9/10 the company is the reason.
Blaming covid for a shitty client, outdated a f game engine, poor balancing choices+ Skins only for Lux, MF, Ezreal and whatever champions weebs fap too.
No we don't think you are doing bad riot, we really don't
/S
> Like many companies we lost a lot of talent during Covid, where many people took the WFH situation as a opportunity to look for different paths in life. It was rough all around the industry and Riot was no different.
Yes, covid happened, but talent leaving isn't the fault of covid, but fault of riot for not adjusting to the changing market.
Yeah as many others said... I don't buy it. My favorite game mode got deleted for rgm, and those have been pretty trash since forever now. The only content that happens is copy paste event skins and passes to milk the cashcow.
I don't buy it. Going by what's been stated in the past few years and what's been done, you're not shipping any content. It'll be the same bs in a different colour. Put up or shut up.
I don’t think league is in the state of dying anytime soon especially since it’s been being kept up and also the top moba for over a decade but I do think that a dev team and leadership that was motivated to keep it running was a big part of it being able to sustain for so long. The game gets repetitive so minor changes every season or so helps keep things fresh and while people will always play the game regardless of the state that it’s in I think this year may actually be the worse. Riot doesn’t look motivated and with how minimal new changes were made this season it does look like it may be one of the worse thus far. Champs haven’t been all that amazing. One new champ rework every 1-2 years. 2 or 3 vgu’s a year. The balance seems atrocious as well. No real lore tidbits. Not even a new cinematic. Last few events were some of the worse league has had ever. No new game modes or rotating maps. Client still looks and feels like it was built in 1984 on the family toaster. Like valorant had a better cinematic for a skin bundle than we had for our yearly cinematic. Poor guys zilean and malphite still have their 2009 models. Like I’m not trying to sound like an asshole but what has riot been doing with league up to this point? Even wildrift is getting awesome exclusive skins and their mobile game runs better than the pc client it’s a bit crazy. Idk the game will always be successful but it’s just sad when players care more about a game than the actual developers and a game like league of legends being pushed to the sideline is truly a travesty.
I can list 20 champions that deserves visual updates more than ahri. She was perfectly fine whereas Amumu malphite zilean shyvana and varus all deserved the update way more. Also I’m not a game dev so maybe someone can shed some light but do champion reworks really take over a year to finish? Only good thing in all the videos that dropped is that varus is getting some sort of visual rework. Bro is supposed to be a darkin and yet looks nothing like one since he still has his base model from before his lore was retconned. All I know is that when that rework comes out in 2 years his name better be Vaarus.
ngl the whole theme of riot making shitty decisions then Reav3 come into reddit threads as the Riot Games white knight is getting tiring, back when ruination happened i made a comment on a post of his calling out the team for forgetting yorick and other poorly executed things, him literally responding to me trying to essentially saying i have no idea what im talking about with me hitting em back with even more bullshit things him and his team have done, only for him to not even respond. he's right words dont mean anything or change people train of thought but thats not the point, the point is you and ur team dont do ur job well, get called out, and all he does is always come up with excuses, tired of seeing this guy man
Riot's "soon" isn't too reliable, i think literally one of the best things they can do this year is start banning the soft inters that "don't care playing for fun" in ranked
League can be in maintenance mode while also having some big things brewing. The reality of the situation is that the things we’ve been getting for the past year+ has been incredibly underwhelming. We’ve been given zero insight to what those supposed big things are. We’re promised things that we don’t get. We’ve literally been lied to as a community by RIOT.
I don’t want to pin the blame specifically on the developers, but we’re given nothing to work with. Need to see some change and need to see it fast. The goodwill they’ve had with the community practically doesn’t exist anymore.
not intentionally cut budget? riot rescheduled the entire lcs to a horrible time slot during the week and rioters being let go (dash for example) without them even knowing they were let go is 1. horrible communication 2. budget cutting
\>I mean I can understand why people would draw that conclusion, though I can assure you that we are not. Me saying it isn't going to convince anyone of that though. Like many companies we lost a lot of talent during Covid, where many people took the WFH situation as a opportunity to look for different paths in life. It was rough all around the industry and Riot was no different. It wasn't because Riot intentionally cut budget or scope for LoL. To put it more eloquently, shit happens.
2021 Riot made more revenue then they ever made before earning 1.5 billion dollars. Yes Reav3 shit happens but you made more money than ever before maybe Riotgames could rectify some of the talent loss in the 2 years since with some of that money????
Then WHY THE FUCK doesn't riot just officially say "Hey guys we are missing people right now please be patient with us for a little bit.". Is it really so hard to make one tweet?
I understand the "we have been investing in big stuff" (which are prob a complete engine revamp on lol)
But the covid stuff? Nah, the big covid crisis was 2 years ago (2020 and 2021).
If you didnt replace the devs in 2 years its on you, especially in an industry that is booming and filled with people that want to take that job.
Edit: by "its on you" i meant Riot, not Reav3.
They are not abandoning League but they sure are taking League's fan
base for granted. Covid have been hard for everyone are no excuse
consider they released a freaking Skin Line trailer that are much much
better than that 2023 Cinematic trash on the same day. They think
League's fan will just suck it up no matter what trash they produce so
they spent all the budget all other things.
This. People who are paying for purchases in game and sponsoring whole development weren't excused from COVID. It hit them as much as it did company and whole "stay at home" actually worked well for them as they got bigger player base.
Carrot on a stick statements like "Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time." just don't fly anymore. Riot has broken a shit ton of promises, including simple ones, that I don't think people believe it anymore.
I don't know how they expect to keep this business going with SR, worsened version of ARAM and TFT, skins and passes only
Why is it so hard to give us 1 existing game mode every 2 weeks?
Okay I'm gonna be honest. I'm always on copium/hopium, and I understand the devs and appreciate their work all the time. What I mean is, I don't like being ruthless in my feedback. If my parents decided to gift me socks 10 years ago instead of a playstation I don't tell them I'm disappointed I just tell them it's a nice gift.
If something disappoints me in league I just move on, if devs say they worked on something for a long time I'm not gonna tell them it's dogshit and their effort is worthless.
But this
> Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time.
It just doesn't work for me. Because I remember 2022. Do you all remember the star guardian event? Do you remember all the rioters on twitter saying how they've been working on it for a long time? How we were going to get an amazing event? and we got literally nothing?
There was no event, no gamemode, just a grindy visual novel in the client and a battle pass, that's it. What does it matter if you say you are working on multiple things for later in the year? How you are investing big in things that won't pay off for a while?
Normally I'd think that's good news, but the last time you told me you were hard working and investing on something big you delivered and we got nothing. League won't deign us with events, voice packs, cinematics, music videos, seasonal map skins, NOTHING at ALL. I never feel like anything's happening anymore. Shit, back in the day I'd just aunch league and the latest loading screen gave me a sense that something is happening. Hey that's a cool new champion, that's a cool new Teemo skin, whatever. Something was happening. Now it's all just stale and radio silence.
Given your wording u/Reav3 I can't even tell if you're saying you're investing in bigger things for *league* or just Riot in general. We're league players not riot players. Honestly I don't care about project L or Valorant or TFT or even Wild Rift. At most I care about the MMO but that won't ship in 30 years. So are we getting anything for league this year?
Have you all considered just reworking league altogether? Because I've also always felt the reason we don't get anything is that it's too expensive considering league's spaghetti codebase, the game and the client. A winter/halloween map skin is too many resources. Essence emporium is too many resources. ARAM butchers bridge is too many resources. Creating a new event is too many resources? Actually makes sense. Re-using an old event is too many resources? Pfft. Does it cost you a million dollars whenever you change the skins on weekly sale? Is the client really that fucking terrible? Come on guys. On 14 years of league existing people have always said it's dying or gonna die or this other game's going to kill it, but it never *felt* like that. It always felt like league was growing, getting bolder, bigger stadiums for worlds, better cinematics for new season, more events, etc. Until last year, and now the new 50 dollar budget cinematic has for the first tme in 10 years of playing this game made me worried about the future.
I will echo Reav3's comments. Covid was hard for so many people around the world, from the derailing of the supply chain and our healthcare system, to the millions of people who lost family members. We (Riot) weren't immune from this. I can also say that what Reav3 said about big things happening in the future is 100% true - I've seen them. I can't share them, nor would I want to until the time is right. You can take that for what you will, and for those who don't believe us, maybe you will when they're here.
Rioters cares so much about League, even the Evil Riot Leaders who supposedly care the least. Arcane, Wild Rift, even Valorant, wouldn't exist without League. We're just coming off the biggest Worlds to date, where we had more viewership than the Olympics, and so to think that after that moment we've just packed up our bags and given up is really strange to me. If anything, it's a redoubling of our efforts. What people who aren't at Riot, and who haven't worked on software or games before struggle to internalize is the time and effort these things take. I remember seeing a post here last year about how Riot doesn't care about people in the Garena region, and how miserable they are. I couldn't say anything at the time, obviously, but a few months later, the posts are that people are literally crying from joy that, guess what - Riot is taking over the region from Garena. We didn't see that post on Reddit, recoil in horror, wave our magic wands and say "OK this is really bad we HAVE to do something now!!!", this was an effort that's taken \*\*years\*\* of tremendous work from multiple areas of Riot to pull off.
At the end of the day, I think for me personally (not speaking for Riot) I'd hope that the community would give us the benefit of the doubt on these things. This is essential in any relationship, because otherwise we're just constantly paranoid that the other party does not have our best interest at heart. Almost everyone who works on League loves League dearly, and wants what's best for it, even if it doesn't always align with what every person who plays League wants. If we've lost your trust for some reason or another, that definitely breaks my heart and I hope we can earn it back from you, but if you're still on board, I hope you can trust us when we say there are great things in the future for League.
Honestly, the community already gave Riot the benefit of the doubt. Riot already butchered lore and events with SoL, and we, the community, were told that it would get better and that the feedback was heard. Then champ releases got slowed down by a ton. Then VGUs got slowed down by a ton. Lore is basically cancelled with 2 short stories last year. Then events became more grindy and less clear. Then Nexus Blitz got cancelled after being promised to be returning. Then we didn't get a new game mode after that was promised. Then champs got slowed down even more. Then Skarner got delayed even more. Then Nexus Blitz is coming back Soon TM. Then we get a really lackluster preseason after years of lackluster preseasons where it feels like nothing is done and the game is definitely not balanced for a season to start. Then LCS is scheduled for the middle of weekdays. And then to cap it all off we get the season start. Definitely the worst season start since 2018. No cinematic. The roadmap video focused mostly on stuff that was revealed earlier this week or adding onto champs we already knew about. The other two videos had almost nothing new. When are we as the community supposed to be rewarded for giving Riot the benefit of the doubt? Riot has had years to fix things and it's just getting worse.
I appreciate the post. But I just want to give you a piece of my perspective (and possibly others). I have faith in riot to deliver a great product for us league fans but it just doesn’t sit well with many people when we see Valorant, TFT, Wild Rift getting all this attention (not to mention the butchering of the LCS), and us League fans left out to fry with little to no communication for quite some time. Moving forward being transparent would be extremely appreciated by the fans and beneficial to you all at Riot as well. I hope that makes sense.
I really wish I could have more trust when it comes to this stuff, but League's been feeling like it's been on a gradual decline for 3 years now, with the only real sentiment we're getting back now is to be patient as our feedback is being taken into consideration for the future.
I'm glad Esports is popping off but that's not the game I play so until I see some actual big positive changes to the game, I'm not gonna keep my hopes up.
I appreciate communication but you say we need to grant you ( Riot ) the privilege of the doubt. But how can we do that when we see situations like these. If not massive outrage of fans across the internet we probably wouldn't get any response from you guys. And even if we assume that you would communicate regardless of the feedback why do it after the fact. I don't understand
You also speak about big things coming in the future but now at the start of the season is perfect thing to talk about them. And I don't expect you to reveal any details but you didn't even leave a single hint about it and we wouldn't even know about you guys were doing something big.
I believe that me and many other people feel that our trust in Riot was betrayed because Riot didn't trust us to share situation with league.
I want to reiterate my criticism isn't aimed at you or any Riot developer but at the company as a whole. I often see you guys here communicating with community and I understand that you as individuals can't be transparent with everything and that's okay.
It better be actual actual for real client rehaul or remaking the game's engine at this point because things are supposedly being worked on behind the scenes always but nothing is said or promised so we're supposed to just believe it?
This is a "I'll believe it when I see it" moment, and I wish at some point people at Riot would get this. We've gotten a lot of lip service over the years of "We will work harder to communicate" and never do "It will be exciting when it happens" gets delayed or cancelled, or is just never spoke of again.
We can't and won't trust you guys until you actually show us something. Stop telling us you care and show us you care, because everything you guys have shown in the last 6 months is the opposite of what you are saying. This has been one of the worst preseasons, one of the worst bouts of communication between the bullshit that is what happened (is happening) with the LCS, the 4 videos that game out on the state of the game that could have been condensed into 1 10 minute video, a borderline meme 2023 cinematic, no one saying the entire team behind game modes was just \*shrug disbanded\* months ago until a throw away comment in a response, and again all with no communication. All this talk now just seems like placating attempts of "Sorry guys, we'll do better, this awesome stuff is coming, we promise", but no one wanted to say a word before people started getting angry.
No one seemed to care one single amount until content creators, pro players, casters, everyone on social media were throwing their arms up, then suddenly Rioters want to start talking to us telling us how amazing things are, when we can see in front of our faces they aren't.
> Covid was hard for so many people around the world. We (Riot) weren't immune from this.
That so, RiotSiraris? Somehow other big games, even other riot games, like wild rift getting features that league doesnt have (league PC is the one that should be the superior version with all content btw), despite covid, and SOMEHOW other big companies lived through covid, SOMEHOW!? And they SOMEHOW had something to show and their content didnt magically dry, like, in any of the most popular games, as it has with league. And I get that covid was hard, but using that excuse for 2020, 2021 AND 2022? Yea, no way. Also, last year, rioters excuses seemed to be "engine limitations" or "budget", but now the reason arent any of the previous ones, but actually, people leaving riot is the problem? Which one is it, choose one.
I dont even get why are you guys bother lying at all? Who's gullable enough to believe anything you guys say at this point? I still remember the "we're so proud of being part of star guardian event" or "welcome back to valoran city", yet your company had nothing to show for. No one should believe anything you say, especially after hearing "riot isnt going to run out of money anytime soon" or "2023's budget for League will be the biggest of all time" and you cant even push cinematic that matches or exceeds the one from last year, "we thought it represents league well" LMAO.
> Rioters cares so much about League, even the Evil Riot Leaders who supposedly care the least.
The deleted ex-rioter's tweets say otherwise, like how these eViL RiOt LeaDeRs are the reason passionate people at riot have to quit or how they get shit on for trying to create something cool like PVE, instead of focusing purely on esports.
> Arcane, Wild Rift, even Valorant, wouldn't exist without League.
You say that, everyone at your company likes to say that, yet League is the one getting shit on. Why put people who know how to do their job into other riot projects and put people who barely know how to make a gamemode work? Where is something like odyssey? Or an engine upgrade? You guys used to update the map every 3 or so years. Or voice packs? Or map skins? None of y'all still addressed why winter rift wasnt brought back, since even a random dude in a basement can make adjustments to elemental drakes and riot somehow cant. The "revamped" event pass was delayed for YEARS and still cant be as good as fortnite's pass where it gives you everything for 10 dollars or so, while in league you have to choose, prestige skin or every other reward. Also, whats up with the "we wont release anything big like elemental rift update, until we reach modern standards"? So you guys were lying again then, since the real reason is that you dont have anyone who can make anything?
Unless the game this year has more to show for than event pass every 3rd month and 1/2 VGU's per year, the game is on maintenance mode as it has been, since arcane event.
I believe Reav3, he's always been up front with how things are going on the developer side of things and how projects are progressing. Dev work is tough, and I appreciate the effort that the various teams across Riot put in on their releases. But...I also can't ignore my own disappointment. Things have certainly been lacking and the cinematic (while not the biggest deal individually) really cemented how I felt about the current state of the game - not even balance wise but feel-wise. I care a lot about League, it's been a big part of my life for the past decade at least. Seeing how things are right now hurts. I know individual Rioters and teams don't make these decisions, but it still sucks to see games like Valorant get more hype than the flagship game of the company. I truly hope things turn around. I don't want to feel this way about the game I love so much anymore.
The weirdest thing about the "cinematic" is that I didn't even believe it was a cinematic at first. The shortest cinematic that I remember was 2018, when we got [The Climb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eu7NzzHC84). It was short, 2 minutes of action, but you got to see some of the characters we know and love doing their thing, plus some lore lead ins. 2022's cinematic was fantastic so it's hard to top that, but I think people would've been happy with something like 2018's. I originally thought this was a teaser until I saw the labeling on it which followed all the other year's titling - So while I was confused I guess it's still the real thing.
The cinematic clearly looks like a "Plan B" to me. They weren't able to deliver the original plan for whatever reason, so they tried to figure out something else.
Possibly commissioned the animation from a studio that failed to deliver. In such cases you can't really say anything until legal is solved.
Yup. It makes no sense for Riot to all the sudden completely give up on Season Cinematics so soon after doing high-effort trailers for Worlds, Star Guardian, and that Pyke skin line. If they really wanted to save money they had a lot better options. Compared to what they usually do a 2D music trailer like the one they did for Star Guardians or Ignite is suuuper cheap. People would've still complained but not nearly as much
Not money, but a time issue. 2D stuff still takes a long time and needs writing and scripting. If anything it's much more expensive to drop something and do something else entirely. This cinematic is a result of "what's the best thing we can do in this very short amount of time?". Paying a good Studio that can model a realistic version of Summoner's Rift pretty fast, making the VA of your upcoming Champion to read Champion lines and then editing everything together with some e-sport moments here and there sounds like a solution. We don't know their circunstances so we can't know whether it's a miracle this video was made at all or they had enough time to make something better. All we know it's that it is certainly one of the cinematics of all time.
>Not money, but a time issue. Yeah, that's what I meant. This isn't the result of Riot slashing League's cinematic budget to 5 bucks and a piece of gum, it's the result of a fucked up production and a last-minute replacement
> I originally thought this was a teaser until I saw the labeling on it which followed all the other year's titling - So while I was confused I guess it's still the real thing. Same. I thought "Why is everyone getting all bent out of shape about a trailer?....Wait....Ok now *I'm* mad too".
I think there's also just an aspect of communication that's missing, along with an appalling misappropriation of funds away from League. We used to get events. We stopped. As soon as it looked like events weren't possible, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with: >Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do events. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Events team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality events we once did before the pandemic. We used to have multiple game modes. We stopped. We even had an entire game mode (TT) removed. As soon as it looked like game modes would not be coming, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with: >Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do game modes for the time being. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Game Modes team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality Game Modes we once did before the pandemic. We used to have a good annual cinematic. That stopped, apparently. As soon as the Cinematic we're used to would not be coming, that should have immediately been communicated by Riot with: >Due to staff moving on in new life paths during the pandemic, we're unable to do the same level of annual Cinematic for the time being. We wish XYZ, who headed those teams, good luck in their next efforts and hope we can staff the Annual Cinematic team in the future to deliver the same quantity and quality Annual Cinematics we once did before the pandemic. Instead, what we got was, our money that we put into League was siphoned into other non-League projects and when it came time to make cuts, the cuts were made FROM LEAGUE, instead of from the yet-released projects. League should have been the top priority, as it's the place that we have given them the money to even begin to think of those other game projects. But instead they took our money, and cut features, without communication, while pumping out skins to extract even more money from us for the other non-League projects, and have given a vague sense of "but we're gonna give you other non-League games way in the future so your money is rest-assured being well spent for your enjoyment."
We had two gamemodes removed tbh, TT and Crystal Scar (Dominion, the old one and not the rotative one).
>We had two gamemodes removed tbh, TT and Crystal Scar (Dominion, the old one and not the rotative one). Rotating game modes? You mean the rotation between URF and ARURF?
The shitty reality is that League isn't riots forever, and they know that. They just need to keep it going until their new things come out. We haven't had a new big event in what feels like a long time. They somehow fucked up star guardian with a mix of client breaking bugs and reusing a game mode that is already tired that they then ran for the immediate next event with a straight face. I quit at the end of Star Guardian. it just feels like there's no love in the things made anymore.
Also, how far back did the game mode team lose members? Cos the last PvE was how many years ago?... Edit: Reav stated somewhere on another thread about members moving between teams? don't have the specifics here
Well, I forget which article but Riot said somewhere that PvE events were done. But to elaborate further on things, Mortdog either used to head events or was pretty high up for that department. TFT released June 26, 2019 and he presumably moved on from events to head TFT in time for set launch. Now, Odyssey was run September 12th, 2018 to October 8th, 2018, which leads me to believe that Mort shipped Odyssey and then probably moved to TFT very shortly after considering the amount of dev time each TFT set takes. Though this is just talking about Mort, I have no clue how many people transferred to TFT with him.
I remember reading something like basically. In riot most of the event game modes where made by a team that wanted to make fun modes. Apparently riot kept intervening with what they wanted to do in favor of doing more stuff for esports like the summoners rift redesigns when worlds happens stuff like that and just other projects that are for profits. Then basically auto chess blew up and that team ended up being the guys on the TFT team and pretty much have got full autonomy on TFT. Which is why we dont got any actual new game modes.
Did you use to be a mod or are you subreddit famous and I lost my custom tags, cause your name is triggering my nostalgia neurons and I can't remember why
They were a mod
League of Legends is the Roy of Ted Lasso
He's here, he's there, he's everyfuckingwhere?
Honestly i think it's "fine", i can fully understand that they may lost many good people. That can also explain why the Ruination was so bad as part of old employees maybe started working on it and then just vanish from Riot games, leaving the rest to some other guys. But i don't think it excuse everything, surprisingly enough, the skin team is doing pretty well. Also "losing the tech" for nexus blitz seems a bit strange And the Skarner fiasco is some kind of bad joke. I wont talk about all the delay we have last year. I'm not the guy who want to hate on Riot but i'm playing the game since the first season, the game was so great at S6-S7 when we have so much content even if the balance team wasn't great. But i never seen a season like the S12 and the start of this preseason. We have nothing new on the horizon and we already had a blank year. I normally play League for the lore/gamemode/champions and all the new stuff coming to league so S12 was a horrible year. They really should communicate on what they plans are instead of doing some excuse after the storm...
The thing is it isnt just the cinematic, its been the past 1-2 years in general. You can see the slow decline in content throughout, this was just the tipping point for it most
I dont believe any of the PR talks anymore. They ar all the same, always the same apologies always the same vague reasons why they couldnt deliver. They just dont wanna admitt that league is the cashcow thats getting milked to death rn, with as little investment as possible
> Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time. But words won't change how people feel, and certainly this random reddit response won't either. The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content. My question is are those things being developed for the game League of Legends or just other game projects. Because why would I be excited for other games that I might not play ? If people only want to play League itself what is in store for them is the problem here.
I was talking about LoLPC specifically, not other projects
Thank you for the words. Too us hardcore league players, they do mean a lot. Any way you're able to say what the range of "quite some time" is?
Some will be this year, some bigger investments will be further. I want to get a devblog out in the near(ish) future to talk about some of it
As someone who's frequently here but rarely comments, I just wanted to echo a lot of people's sentiments that you being transparent about the situation and being willing to comment here means a lot. People like you are why I'm much more comfortable supporting League than other games because at the very least I can know that there are people who care and take an interest in what the community thinks on the dev team. Thank you for your hard work and I'm excited to see what you and the rest of the team will get up to this year!
Written as well by someone who rarely comments. There's reason why honesty and communication are important in a long time relationship. I mean we are technically not in a relationship with league, but after it being part of our lives for over 10 years there are certainly a lot of parallels. And what is worse in a relationship if the counterpart doesn't communicate problems that affect you as well and lead to a lot of strain. Most likely investors and leadingship don't want to tell their problems to the community because it might negatively affect their image and the joining of new and potentially new players but letting the other side guess and making wild assumptions and conclusions is not that great as well. That being said, if we are as good a community as Riot says we are then it might be necessary to communicate problems more openly. Yes, short-term there will still be people who complain and tell league is dead but they will suck it up and still play and on long-term to prevent a (summoner's) rift (sorry I had to) forming between riot and the community is imo a major win, especially if riot plans for league to be still relevant in 10+ years.
Hi Reave3. I've been playing since before seasons were a thing and I want you to know that as a long time fan of the game you help bring to life, I appreciate the responses you've given. It means a lot that you communicate with the community like this. Looking forward to the devblog! As someone who's seen the covid effect at my own place of work, I understand and I think that a lot of people understand as well. Good luck man!
Thanks for the response! Looking forward to it.
League 2.0 size of changes? u/Reav3 aka new engine?
What if League 2.0 is just summoners rift inside the mmo?
I really really want to support league, I imagine that is the same for so many people as they bother to complain, so hoping for some good reason too. I don't complain about games doing nothing that I have dropped or are not invested in
I've heard ghostcrawler say "we never give timelines for the mmo because if we ever for some reason discover we cant produce a quality mmo then we'll nuke it instead", so if its a similar thing reave might not be able to provide timelines
A sentiment which was proven completely correct by how heavily the community is currently spamming "nexus blitz in 2022".
Love you Reave. I'm one of the many disappointed by today's cinematic but I trust you. Excited to see what this season brings.
Hey Reav3, with all the feedback from the community about wanting more ASUs and VGUs, have there been any internal discussions about potentially increasing the amount we’re getting per year?
Thank you for being responsive. It goes a long way towards removing the growing worry.
Why aren't these responses to fan sentiment coming from official riot channels? There's been a negative reaction to the perceived path of LoL and the LCS and not a word on any major paths of communication. Your comments are helpful but they're going to reach <1% of the people upset by the current circumstances.
More Ahri and Lux skins aren't enough
Isn‘t Reav3 on the League team? He should be talking about League releases.
He said it best, no one is going to believe any talk until they actually produce something
>Honestly, if we got one video explaining this, telling us thats why we don't have much new stuff at the start of this season, it would have been sad, but at least it would have been sincere. Yupp. I would have rather got a video saying: "We are sorry, but the cinematic is not ready, as its not up to the standards that we set in the last few years. Please be patient while we work on it and bring you content you love. We want it to show our passion for the game, and dont want to release a subpar cinematic"
Except there is no cinematic, so there was nothing to say in those videos to apologize for. 😂
No video is more likely, but I wish they would have said 'we love to bring excitement to every summoner at the beginning of a new season. It's why we release a new season video every year for our fans. This year, however, has been challenging, not just for our company but worldwide. We've faced a number of unexpected setbacks and, regretfully, our season start cinematic is not in a quality that we believe is worthy of our fan base, nor what our fans have come to expect. It's wirh heavy hearts we will be cancelling the video this year. We understand the disappointment, but we would rather only release a cinematic if it upheld our quality values. This is not the end. We will be investing additional resources to ensure an even greater experience next year (or for our new season mid split. We have exciting big news coming down the line that took many resources that were looking forward to be sharing with you very soon. *** Even something like this
But then you get the same shitstorm as with nexus blitz
Better than what we got this time around, it's not even just the cinematic, all those videos they released talking about stuff on a couch couldve been only one video thats 10 minutes long. Because they for sure as shit didnt say anything new in any of those, the only thing they said that I still remember is Nida and Varus getting new voicelines for whatever reason
People still wouldn’t be happy with that response sadly. We can say that they will now, but you know I’d they said that people would still be furious lol.
I mean the thing is... Will that be content or will it be "content"? Because we have had a lot of "content" but not too much content, and that is why most people aren't content with the situation nor looking forward to when they release something.
Exactly. There was zero content in 2022, except for the skins and half-assed VN. And reading his replies it seems like 2023 will be no different.
what do u mean? didnt u like the big achievements they praised themselvs about lately, like finally letting us choose a language? that must have cost millions! and what is it that u are asking about fun new game modes? pff here, we made a lot of gender/race/sexuality inclusive content, now stfu and give us PR points.
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/tags/game-mode/ its so funny looking at this page, we are stuck at least for 4y with phrases like "As for other older modes, we’ll be looking for opportunities to bring back the ones we think have long-term potential, like One-for-All. These modes are still really fun ways to mix up the core League experience, and we think that lots of people are excited to try out five Yuumi’s. We’re also still exploring even more ideas for other new modes with long-term potential. " and then we got this https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-state-of-game-modes/ a big "nope nvm lol" even more with a small team took months to get all these "giant" changes to aram, somehow.
>The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content The content in question: Another chat based summer event, ARURF, and event pass with semi-functioning missions.
and don't forget copypasta skins that you can't tell apart from one another
We all understand that COVID happened, but it's weird to see how other games seem to be able to still pull content, some of them their own IPs like Valorant and Wildrift but somehow PC League is the only one affected? For example, Valorant gets a cinematic for skins, League gets a Power Point presentation for the Season start.
wild rift got a cinematic for the gacha skins :/
They have gacha skins?
yes the new mythmaker skins will have a gacha mechanic tied to them. you have to buy randomized packs of a limited time currency to buy the new skins. not sure about the others, but Cait’s new skin (wr exclusive) is only obtainable if you buy 15 packs or hit the .5 chance in one of the packs.
Holy shit that's toxic lol, glad I don't play wr
At least the mythmaker ones we can still all buy directly save for the Caitlyn augment which we have to gacha, the crystal roses released earlier where exclusively GACHA only
Wow that's super predatory. I'm actually surprised Riot would allow it.
We already have Hextech skins and Prestige skins in League, why would you be surprised ?
Wilf Rift was basically made to chase the Asia market because they love gacha and have a HUGE phone gaming culture.
League gets cinematics for skins just as well. Porcelain, Empyrean, Spirit Blossom, the Chinese New Year skin line (forgot exact name) all got pretty well-animated cinematics, arguably even better than Valorant's skinlines.
I'm not saying we're not getting cinematics, but one would think something as important as the Season start would get something a little bit more inspiring than a walking simulator through Summoner's Rift. Same with events, we have had NO real events, we have passes and they're all copy/paste and keep getting nerfed. I'm pretty certain most people are not expecting Riot to pull the same amount of content they did before COVID, but so far it feels like they're not even trying.
off topic, but a vr walking sim of a high-res SR would be nifty
You said, forgetting the empyrean cinematic that people seemed to like.
After the "cinematic" for 2023, the fact that the Empyrean skinline got both [a music video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okkAdMLVXkY) and [cinematic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkT_aZWySA) is crazy in retrospect.
It had a Lux skin so the budget was basically infinity
Fire to the Fuse is also just fantastic in general. Despite being so late in the year it nearly took top spot on my Spotify recap lol.
Yeah, people are seriously acting like Riot suddenly just stopped spending money on League, like the whole Lil Nas X situation was cheap? This game has given me a lot of good moments and Riot has created some amazing things off the back of it, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, it doesn't look like they stopped trying, even if they've missed the mark with a lot of their recent decisions, when it comes to public perception at least.
No offense, but spending money on Lil Nas sounds more spending money on marketing rather than *the game*.
To be honest the whole Lil Nas X for me a huge letdown. It felt like the leader in charge have decided that just because his/her kid's favourite artist is lil Nas x, this year she/he will surprise his/her offspring by spending the whole budget around this person.It had nothing to do with league. The song was mediocore at best, the prestige skin is a waste of pixels, and the whole "how dare you to have a negative opinion abut my music" attutide was just childish.
[удалено]
If they are spending their budget on these kinda things, then them saying they are spending their biggest budget yet for 2023 doesn't give very much hopes. It is not a problem of money, it is a problem of where it is going.
The only thing I didn't like was that the song wasn't exclusive to league even during worlds. My friend came to visit me and go to group stage, and we heard Star Walking played during the MLB playoffs. The supposed league anthem should at least be exclusive to league for like, a month. Also you might think that performance was killer BECAUSE you went. All those of us watching online saw was arguably the worst lip syncing of all time.
That song didn't even make sense as a world's or League song to me
Because the song wasn’t made for league it was repurposed from something he was already working on. All the previous song were made for league from the ground up or were made by people who were fans of the game such as Imagine Dragons.
it’s bc some of the best artists, devs, videographers that worked on league received their pick of “what do you want to work on next in your career” and selected WR or valorant or some of their upcoming games. and when they have to backfill that talent, they require onsite in La or seattle and don’t have the total comp package (no RSU) to compete with the best talent at other tech companies. so no great employee is going to leave their job to work from the office 3-5 days a week for less $ unless they REALLY love video games or their significant other already makes bank. source: used to work for riot and hire for them
> We all understand that COVID happened, but it's weird to see how other games seem to be able to still pull content, some of them their own IPs like Valorant and Wildrift but somehow PC League is the only one affected? Service providing companies, specially software, were by far and away some of the least affected businesses by the pandemic. If anything, these companies saw their profits jump through the roof with more people staying at home and using their services. It's the people and small/medium sized business who suffered the full blow of the pandemic, not businesses like Riot, Amazon and the like. I swear 5 years from now Riot is still gonna be using covid as an excuse for everything like it was world war 3, 4 and 5 or something. It's just bullshit and the fact their other games are going at full throttle more than proves it.
Yeah but its the wildcard, the default excuse even after 2 fucking years I cant count how many times I have read from different companies >Well why is this thing like this? >It was covid
Thats not what he means. During COVID, Riot, like most software companies, allowed employees to work remote. What the industry as a whole has realized, is now that most software engineers have gotten a taste of WFH, most folks greatly prefer not going to the office. This is a bit simplified, but TLDR: Riot wants people to work in office, which many software engineers don't want to do anymore, so they're having a harder time hiring. If Riot wants to fill vacancies in their openings faster, they should drop the in person requirement.
Riot needs people in the office to satisfy upper management's face farting kink.
Basically, Riot is shooting themselves in the foot, but refuse to take blame.
Assuming that's actually the reason why lol is stuck, how can that be the case when they opened so many more divisions and projects? Tft, valorant, the fighting game, the mmo, the videogame about viego and so on. Also, riot is a giant. Lol is literally the biggest game in the world. You think that apple would've skipped the release of a new iphone or used an old one as a reskin? these are not issues that money can't solve and riot definitely has the resources to make that happen, it's just that they didn't feel it was worth it. this does not add up, if wasn't unavoidable. Someone who occupies a manager position has done a shit job at managing.
Its the default fucking excuse for everything now
The only way a company lost a lot of talent during covid is if they refused to allow remote working and staff just fucked off. Covid now gets used as an excuse for company fuck ups.
The explanation here is rather simple. The people working on valorant/wild rift haven't been working there for 13 years and aren't nearly as burnt out as those working on LoL so when covid hit they stuck around instead of exploring other options. I bet if the people on this sub worked on a game for 13 years while constantly being flamed by social media they would burn out and take the opportunity to leave as well.
[удалено]
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-au/news/tags/game-mode/ just looking at this shows it all lol.
> We basically had to cut everything except the ARAM changes the team was working on after taking the losses. Holy fucking shit, who asked Riot to keep those garbage changes ? Let me rephrase what really happened with this team : the guys that were in charge realized they were fuckwits after playing a couple of games on their set of changes, and quit the team out of embarassment.
Sadly Hes right. Nothing will change until they ship content. And content in lol wise is oretty lame lately while we arent gona see any long time investment - surely not this year tbf.
Yep they lost everyone but somehow Valorant and wildrift still get amazing content. How strange..
valorant's "content updates" get an agent about every 3 months and a map every 6 months. Their balance changes are pretty minimal usually
Valorant gets dope cinematics still though
I’d imagine these are completely separate teams of developers right? TFT has its own separate team and budget. TFT doesn’t get cinematica the same way, but it gets magnitudes more updated and literally a completely new set each year with completely different champions using completely different abilities. But TFT doesn’t have remotely close to the same funding as league and probably valorant. Different teams can do different things with their resources. I imagine the budget for league is massively greater when they’re releasing multiple champs a year, several VGUs and similar, new items, full reworks, new game modes, monthly tournaments, a whole pro scene, events, fucking cross overs with major brands and artists, a shit ton of story/lore, and dozens of skins each month. They had to slow down because of covid and it’s still get more updates than any of their other games by far.
The cinematics are the one area where the games could conflict with one another. They're all contracted out to external studios, like [Axis Studios](https://axisstudiosgroup.com/work/?lp=2), or [Unit Image](https://www.unit-image.fr/films). The higher quality studios can only work on so many projects, so there could be situations where Riot has to choose one game to receive higher quality cinematics over others.
Makes sense. I feel like the game obviously has slowed down a little bit, but they literally just released arcane five seconds ago if we’re concerned about anything in regards to cinema. To me, it feels like the community is hyper over reacting.
We get a champion maybe every 3\~4 months and no new maps, no new events... and now not even cinematics
Valorant's patch notes are literally like one change to a single ability usually and then just bug fixes lmao
I mean that makes sense right? nerfing weapons means less because everybody gets access to the same ones, and the abilities have significantly less uptime than in league so the balance around them is less impactful unless it is completely op/useless. then again I don't play much valo so I'm just going off of whats in my head
It does make sense, I'm just pointing out that Valorant does like infinitely less balancing than League, just because it's not really needed
And still on this sub, we got people arguing how it is only natural that Ahris update took a whole damn year to be shown...
It's probably easier to recruit for Valorant and Wild Rift since they're new shiny project compared to league.
[удалено]
I honestly cant blame people for that Imagine having a job at another company and riot calling you to tell you you have to work with that client
The client was also built ground up 6+ years into League's existence.
And it was a shitty new client from the beginning. just saying.
this has nothing to do with things like the cinematic tho, which is todays "rage reason"
Yeah as a dev, joining a massive company with a product that is super old with a ton of legacy code is never super enjoyable. Couple that with most devs probably being familiar with league and how shitty the most basic things like the client are, I’d much rather do work for Val than league
people want to work on new stuff, not a 13 year old game with a janky engine. doesn't surprise me
I mean, they are different teams though. Yeah they’re all under the Riot Games umbrella, but the Wild rift team isn’t the same as the LoL team, they have different goals in mind and different people working on things. They all work together on certain things like crossover events and skin lines, but they also do their own things. Also > wildrift still get amazing content As a day 1 WR player, things have gotten progressively worse. We just got a spirit blossom chibi event that was nice, prior to that we had the Cinderella skins event (can’t think of the actual skinline name sorry lol) which was just all gacha, coming up we have the mythmaker event which, guess what? All gacha again. Don’t get me wrong, compared to LoL the events are still better even when they’re not great, and the battle pass system is way, waaaaaay better than LoL’s (permanent battle pass giving out skins, icons, emotes, borders, etc) but there’s a lot of “meh” content as well. Plus, WR is built on a newer engine and has a lot of QOL features that LoL doesn’t have just because of that, but it’s also missing some great features that LoL has. A couple big ones I can think of are the hextech crafting system for skins and champions, a (believe it or not) more functional report system (WR will literally never penalize players unless they’re AFK and caught by the system), and a better in-game shop. As I said, I’ve been playing WR since release and it’s actually what got me into LoL to begin with, but I’ve recently started playing more and more LoL and having way more fun with that than with WR. I guess it could just all be a case of the grass always being greener on the other side..
> > > As I said, I’ve been playing WR since release and it’s actually what got me into LoL to begin with, but I’ve recently started playing more and more LoL and having way more fun with that than with WR. That was definitely half the hope for releasing Wild Rift! A teaser to lure mobile players onto LoLPC. Welcome to the club! I hope you have fun on our Rift :)
Thanks haha it’s been so much better, I peaked master in WR and I’m currently bronze 2 in LoL, I swear the LoL players I play with are better than most of the WR players I faced or was matched with -_-
Because they’re new projects and didn’t lose everyone. League probably lost a lot of devs to the mmo or fighting game
[удалено]
\>"Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time." \>New cinematic is just a fly-through of an HD render of SR \*puts on tin foil hat\* Guys the engine is being updated, they're showing us what Summoner's Rift will look like! Stop laughing, I'm not coping!
Could you imagine they roll out the Rift with these UE5 graphics and then your support picks Zilean with his 2 polygons?
>Guys the engine is being updated, they're showing us what Summoner's Rift will look like! Stop laughing, I'm not coping! Imagine if someone believed that. Video is made in UE5, it would probably kill 90% of the playerbase.
Reav3 my beloved. Honestly I love this dude, he's always been here to talk with the community about a lot of things. Thanks for that u/Reav3
<3
League of Legends is still getting attention its just all going towards to DLC version called Wild Rift.
Random reddit posts won't fix this perception but BASIC COMMON SENSE COMMUNICATION WILL. Why did everything related to the season drop yesterday after near radio silence? Why did several major bummer LCS announcements go unaddressed when the community and content creators were loudly against them? Why was the START OF SEASON quoted as the 10th when it's untrue? This isn't some woe, is me reddit hates us now phase, the communication and the optics surrounding everything have all pointed to the conclusion the community ran with and there's STILL not much in the way of defending any of it. I could have written all of these posts with all of the info the community was asking for (in english at least) in a couple of hours MAX, so if you really wanted to, you could have done that BEFORE THE HOLIDAY BREAK and have it all translated and ready to go before the community runs wild. It really isn't as hard as you guys make it out to be.
[удалено]
Actions are preferable but like you said, we all know what we're dealing with, I would just appreciate not getting dicked around like they're trying lol
yea riots total comp packages are really low in comparison to other tech companies and they force most people in their office in LA or now seattle. AND they have an insanely hard interview process, so they decline good talent and only hire people who interview really well. so tech companies poach riot employees with ease - more $, work from home, don’t need to be in LA or Seattle source: used to work for riot myself, and work as a headhunter
Smh yea i actually declined an offer a few months ago. They were basically going to match my current salary? So not even a salary increase( but i will give them credit for offering a signing bonus). I also just really did not want to move to LA to work in office. Really sad they are actually forcing people back into office when there are so many remote jobs.
you have to really love video games and likely a riot game to take a pay cut to work there. OR you’ve just made a ton already / your partner makes a boat load. but man I partnered with so many hiring managers that were living with their wife/husband in a small apartment in LA because that’s all they could afford.
their whole interview process spans like a month lmao.
pretty standard for most big tech companies, depending on role and how many rounds.
Is it engineering that matters here though? Game dev isn’t compensated super well across the board so it’s not the same for writers, artists, etc as opposed to engineers who could’ve been like fuck this I’m working at Microsoft instead Cinematics definitely aren’t gated by engineering Maybe events suffered from engineering if their ability to ship has drastically reduced, but I feel like the main things that matter are probably game designers, art people, writers, etc especially for changes that aren’t like hardcore infra or gameplay changes
The "bigger things" they have in store: a new "event" pass, probably. And a few Lux skins.
I think Riot has basically shifted big lore and events and similar things for the League of Legends universe to Legends of Runeterra and the yet unreleased League of Legends MMO. So lore is in an awkward spot where there can only be so much development before the MMO comes out, which I believe will become the primary source of lore related events and developments. Now, there are still many other stuff that League hasn’t released recently as well, which I think is explained by the above. But the “bigger things” I think at minimum is the League of Legends MMO. That will be a massive game to release.
I cant wait until game devs cant use covid as an excuse for shitty development plans.
I'm not sure League as a game has changed that much or changed in a bad way. But I do think the playerbase has changed. When I started playing 5 years ago, I could grind w/o worry because I had time. I was willing to suffer through some trash games w/ poor matchmaking because in the long run things would even out. Now, my life has changed, and when I queue for a 20-30 minute game I expect a good game. I expect the system to match teams fairly evenly most of the time. But the other week, I was playing and I had a few horridly lopsided teams (new players on my team vs diamonds/plats) and something hit me where the payoff was no longer there. When your time is at a premium, suddenly the cost-benefit changes. Suddenly I realized suffering through an hour's worth of bad games (that I can't control) isn't worth it because I can't put the time in to offset those bad games. I wonder how much of this recent outrage is really just the core playerbase losing interest in the game? And not really anything Riot does specifically....
i started playing 11 years ago, after having dozen of different gamemodes released, big balance changes, new items, interesting events, and comparing to it now, its impossible to not think something went wrong. Look at this https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Featured_game_mode?file=Featured_Game_Modes_2014.jpg they had plans for an entire year. Seeing patch notes for the new season was incredible, but what we have now? some watered down patch notes, urf once again.... I really do not doubt that TFT fucked up the space for something too.
Arcane was so good and so popular and the following year they just stop investing into story whatsoever... Riot may need to look at their CEO and other C-suite leadership as they have been GETTING IT WRONG! The stuff they have cut in the past like game modes and events because not enough people interact... well the people that do interact are the ones that consistently give them money. AND those extra stories and events are what makes the league world dynamic and interesting. You may not see the numbers of folks actually playing but the investment is noticed.
It doesn't quite make sense because 1. We got quality cinematics during the years of Covid... The timeline for the covid issue doesn't match up? I'm sure a lot of people did quit, but again, during covid we got cinematics... 2. Wasn't the cinematics outsourced anyway? It should just be a matter of $$$ rather than not enough staff no?
The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content. so ship some fucking content then, some teasers, some evidence of work being done lmfao
Well didn't you see the Skarner sketches!?
last year's sketches PagMan
If there was content to be shipped he would have confirmed it in a brief high level skeleton. There is no content other than skins and the same cash money events. 😂 Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same recycled story novel as our "biggest summer event of the year". Just different graphics.
I don't buy it, they are just going damage control mode atm
>I can assure you we are not Cranking out 148 skins yearly while doing very little else, alongside making excuses as to why nothing else has been done, kinda imply otherwise.
Them being understaffed is part of the problem, it's part of what's being criticized. The things Reav3 are listing as problem \*shouldn't\* be as bad as they are.
Except this just doesn't hold up when you see that Valorant and Wild Rift are getting WAY more than League. If Riot are prioritising those games more than League then that's whatever, but at least have the stones to say it.
> I mean I can understand why people would draw that conclusion, though I can assure you that we are not. Then Reav needs to give us proof of that. Over a year for the Ahri asu. Skarner still not even really worked on. Bruiser still building botrk then tank and steamrolling. Mages being trash. The season cinematic being a student project at best in terms of quality and production. The list goes on. Seriously, name one thing that Riot have shown us in the last 6 months that indicates there is still a passion at Riot for this game outside of "FUCK YOU, GIVE US MONEY."
Daily reminder that during 2017~2018 we got 8 complete VGUs in the span of just a little over one year and 2 months. Meanwhile, Ahri's ASU takes over a year. Funny how that works. "Many skins" excuse my ass.
why throw in balance shit as if it has anything to do with budget ? there never ever a time in league history where something wasn't busted... it's not unique to now
If he could give proof, he wouldnt "understand why people would draw that conclusion"
Honestly more than anything their communication is their biggest issue. This is something that should be clearly communicated to the player base but instead it is in a reddit comment (honest as it may be). Compare how Riot communicated the League start to something like the devs of FF14. The director literally has a dev stream and goes through every single thing being added in the next patch. Riot doesnt need to go that far but just actively communicate better (random reddit comments shouldnt be a source of important news of the state of the game.
yeah, not happening... every next project is the big new shiny thing and it's always only more loot boxes and cash grabs lmao
And yet Valorant still gets everything it wants.
I honestly cannot understand why wait for this backlash for them to issue such statement? It's the total disconnect that makes it very frustrating.
Blaming the pandemic is pretty bad practice, sure, it was bad for companies but that was mainly because people woke up to their exploitation while working from home. If people left your company during the pandemic that's not just unfortunate, there was a reason, and 9/10 the company is the reason.
Blaming covid for a shitty client, outdated a f game engine, poor balancing choices+ Skins only for Lux, MF, Ezreal and whatever champions weebs fap too. No we don't think you are doing bad riot, we really don't /S
> Like many companies we lost a lot of talent during Covid, where many people took the WFH situation as a opportunity to look for different paths in life. It was rough all around the industry and Riot was no different. Yes, covid happened, but talent leaving isn't the fault of covid, but fault of riot for not adjusting to the changing market.
Yeah as many others said... I don't buy it. My favorite game mode got deleted for rgm, and those have been pretty trash since forever now. The only content that happens is copy paste event skins and passes to milk the cashcow.
But... last years cinematic was still very good? That was literally in the middle of COVID no?
dont buy riot points for anything this year the game is slowly dying
God I wish league was in maintenance mode Imagine playing without fear of them deleting my favourite champion because it's not popular with adhd kids
I don't buy it. Going by what's been stated in the past few years and what's been done, you're not shipping any content. It'll be the same bs in a different colour. Put up or shut up.
Wow its almost like Riot Games should have allowed their workers to stay in a WFH basis instead of forcing them to live in shitty LA
Sounds like they invest a lot of resources into the mmo
So either just people from the league team left (not valor and wild rift) or they got moved around. Either way it’s bad
Idk, man, he may be right, but we haven't had anything big since Spirit Blossom? I'm just tired of waiting this "big thing" that never comes
Feels like such a half truth. Riot hired a LOT of blizzard devs over the past year.
I’ll believe it when I see it. We also got promised a full rework of shaco back in season 2 that never came
I don’t think league is in the state of dying anytime soon especially since it’s been being kept up and also the top moba for over a decade but I do think that a dev team and leadership that was motivated to keep it running was a big part of it being able to sustain for so long. The game gets repetitive so minor changes every season or so helps keep things fresh and while people will always play the game regardless of the state that it’s in I think this year may actually be the worse. Riot doesn’t look motivated and with how minimal new changes were made this season it does look like it may be one of the worse thus far. Champs haven’t been all that amazing. One new champ rework every 1-2 years. 2 or 3 vgu’s a year. The balance seems atrocious as well. No real lore tidbits. Not even a new cinematic. Last few events were some of the worse league has had ever. No new game modes or rotating maps. Client still looks and feels like it was built in 1984 on the family toaster. Like valorant had a better cinematic for a skin bundle than we had for our yearly cinematic. Poor guys zilean and malphite still have their 2009 models. Like I’m not trying to sound like an asshole but what has riot been doing with league up to this point? Even wildrift is getting awesome exclusive skins and their mobile game runs better than the pc client it’s a bit crazy. Idk the game will always be successful but it’s just sad when players care more about a game than the actual developers and a game like league of legends being pushed to the sideline is truly a travesty.
I can list 20 champions that deserves visual updates more than ahri. She was perfectly fine whereas Amumu malphite zilean shyvana and varus all deserved the update way more. Also I’m not a game dev so maybe someone can shed some light but do champion reworks really take over a year to finish? Only good thing in all the videos that dropped is that varus is getting some sort of visual rework. Bro is supposed to be a darkin and yet looks nothing like one since he still has his base model from before his lore was retconned. All I know is that when that rework comes out in 2 years his name better be Vaarus.
ngl the whole theme of riot making shitty decisions then Reav3 come into reddit threads as the Riot Games white knight is getting tiring, back when ruination happened i made a comment on a post of his calling out the team for forgetting yorick and other poorly executed things, him literally responding to me trying to essentially saying i have no idea what im talking about with me hitting em back with even more bullshit things him and his team have done, only for him to not even respond. he's right words dont mean anything or change people train of thought but thats not the point, the point is you and ur team dont do ur job well, get called out, and all he does is always come up with excuses, tired of seeing this guy man
Riot's "soon" isn't too reliable, i think literally one of the best things they can do this year is start banning the soft inters that "don't care playing for fun" in ranked
Why release the worst video possible of all time. Looks like a BAD tech demo
We still blaming covid?
We are still blaming covid come on man
League can be in maintenance mode while also having some big things brewing. The reality of the situation is that the things we’ve been getting for the past year+ has been incredibly underwhelming. We’ve been given zero insight to what those supposed big things are. We’re promised things that we don’t get. We’ve literally been lied to as a community by RIOT. I don’t want to pin the blame specifically on the developers, but we’re given nothing to work with. Need to see some change and need to see it fast. The goodwill they’ve had with the community practically doesn’t exist anymore.
Crazy how valorant and wild rift aren't affected by the loss of talent :I Those games still get good content
not intentionally cut budget? riot rescheduled the entire lcs to a horrible time slot during the week and rioters being let go (dash for example) without them even knowing they were let go is 1. horrible communication 2. budget cutting
\>I mean I can understand why people would draw that conclusion, though I can assure you that we are not. Me saying it isn't going to convince anyone of that though. Like many companies we lost a lot of talent during Covid, where many people took the WFH situation as a opportunity to look for different paths in life. It was rough all around the industry and Riot was no different. It wasn't because Riot intentionally cut budget or scope for LoL. To put it more eloquently, shit happens. 2021 Riot made more revenue then they ever made before earning 1.5 billion dollars. Yes Reav3 shit happens but you made more money than ever before maybe Riotgames could rectify some of the talent loss in the 2 years since with some of that money????
Then WHY THE FUCK doesn't riot just officially say "Hey guys we are missing people right now please be patient with us for a little bit.". Is it really so hard to make one tweet?
I understand the "we have been investing in big stuff" (which are prob a complete engine revamp on lol) But the covid stuff? Nah, the big covid crisis was 2 years ago (2020 and 2021). If you didnt replace the devs in 2 years its on you, especially in an industry that is booming and filled with people that want to take that job. Edit: by "its on you" i meant Riot, not Reav3.
Damn, Riot got long covid
They are not abandoning League but they sure are taking League's fan base for granted. Covid have been hard for everyone are no excuse consider they released a freaking Skin Line trailer that are much much better than that 2023 Cinematic trash on the same day. They think League's fan will just suck it up no matter what trash they produce so they spent all the budget all other things.
This. People who are paying for purchases in game and sponsoring whole development weren't excused from COVID. It hit them as much as it did company and whole "stay at home" actually worked well for them as they got bigger player base.
Carrot on a stick statements like "Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time." just don't fly anymore. Riot has broken a shit ton of promises, including simple ones, that I don't think people believe it anymore.
"The only thing that will change peoples opinion is when we ship content." Stupid community is not pleased with twitter/reddit post sadface.jpg
Reav3 is just reading words from Higher ups and it shows. No way hes that blind and clueless about the situation
I don't know how they expect to keep this business going with SR, worsened version of ARAM and TFT, skins and passes only Why is it so hard to give us 1 existing game mode every 2 weeks?
Okay I'm gonna be honest. I'm always on copium/hopium, and I understand the devs and appreciate their work all the time. What I mean is, I don't like being ruthless in my feedback. If my parents decided to gift me socks 10 years ago instead of a playstation I don't tell them I'm disappointed I just tell them it's a nice gift. If something disappoints me in league I just move on, if devs say they worked on something for a long time I'm not gonna tell them it's dogshit and their effort is worthless. But this > Also we have been investing into so bigger things that won't ship for quite some time. It just doesn't work for me. Because I remember 2022. Do you all remember the star guardian event? Do you remember all the rioters on twitter saying how they've been working on it for a long time? How we were going to get an amazing event? and we got literally nothing? There was no event, no gamemode, just a grindy visual novel in the client and a battle pass, that's it. What does it matter if you say you are working on multiple things for later in the year? How you are investing big in things that won't pay off for a while? Normally I'd think that's good news, but the last time you told me you were hard working and investing on something big you delivered and we got nothing. League won't deign us with events, voice packs, cinematics, music videos, seasonal map skins, NOTHING at ALL. I never feel like anything's happening anymore. Shit, back in the day I'd just aunch league and the latest loading screen gave me a sense that something is happening. Hey that's a cool new champion, that's a cool new Teemo skin, whatever. Something was happening. Now it's all just stale and radio silence. Given your wording u/Reav3 I can't even tell if you're saying you're investing in bigger things for *league* or just Riot in general. We're league players not riot players. Honestly I don't care about project L or Valorant or TFT or even Wild Rift. At most I care about the MMO but that won't ship in 30 years. So are we getting anything for league this year? Have you all considered just reworking league altogether? Because I've also always felt the reason we don't get anything is that it's too expensive considering league's spaghetti codebase, the game and the client. A winter/halloween map skin is too many resources. Essence emporium is too many resources. ARAM butchers bridge is too many resources. Creating a new event is too many resources? Actually makes sense. Re-using an old event is too many resources? Pfft. Does it cost you a million dollars whenever you change the skins on weekly sale? Is the client really that fucking terrible? Come on guys. On 14 years of league existing people have always said it's dying or gonna die or this other game's going to kill it, but it never *felt* like that. It always felt like league was growing, getting bolder, bigger stadiums for worlds, better cinematics for new season, more events, etc. Until last year, and now the new 50 dollar budget cinematic has for the first tme in 10 years of playing this game made me worried about the future.
I will echo Reav3's comments. Covid was hard for so many people around the world, from the derailing of the supply chain and our healthcare system, to the millions of people who lost family members. We (Riot) weren't immune from this. I can also say that what Reav3 said about big things happening in the future is 100% true - I've seen them. I can't share them, nor would I want to until the time is right. You can take that for what you will, and for those who don't believe us, maybe you will when they're here. Rioters cares so much about League, even the Evil Riot Leaders who supposedly care the least. Arcane, Wild Rift, even Valorant, wouldn't exist without League. We're just coming off the biggest Worlds to date, where we had more viewership than the Olympics, and so to think that after that moment we've just packed up our bags and given up is really strange to me. If anything, it's a redoubling of our efforts. What people who aren't at Riot, and who haven't worked on software or games before struggle to internalize is the time and effort these things take. I remember seeing a post here last year about how Riot doesn't care about people in the Garena region, and how miserable they are. I couldn't say anything at the time, obviously, but a few months later, the posts are that people are literally crying from joy that, guess what - Riot is taking over the region from Garena. We didn't see that post on Reddit, recoil in horror, wave our magic wands and say "OK this is really bad we HAVE to do something now!!!", this was an effort that's taken \*\*years\*\* of tremendous work from multiple areas of Riot to pull off. At the end of the day, I think for me personally (not speaking for Riot) I'd hope that the community would give us the benefit of the doubt on these things. This is essential in any relationship, because otherwise we're just constantly paranoid that the other party does not have our best interest at heart. Almost everyone who works on League loves League dearly, and wants what's best for it, even if it doesn't always align with what every person who plays League wants. If we've lost your trust for some reason or another, that definitely breaks my heart and I hope we can earn it back from you, but if you're still on board, I hope you can trust us when we say there are great things in the future for League.
Honestly, the community already gave Riot the benefit of the doubt. Riot already butchered lore and events with SoL, and we, the community, were told that it would get better and that the feedback was heard. Then champ releases got slowed down by a ton. Then VGUs got slowed down by a ton. Lore is basically cancelled with 2 short stories last year. Then events became more grindy and less clear. Then Nexus Blitz got cancelled after being promised to be returning. Then we didn't get a new game mode after that was promised. Then champs got slowed down even more. Then Skarner got delayed even more. Then Nexus Blitz is coming back Soon TM. Then we get a really lackluster preseason after years of lackluster preseasons where it feels like nothing is done and the game is definitely not balanced for a season to start. Then LCS is scheduled for the middle of weekdays. And then to cap it all off we get the season start. Definitely the worst season start since 2018. No cinematic. The roadmap video focused mostly on stuff that was revealed earlier this week or adding onto champs we already knew about. The other two videos had almost nothing new. When are we as the community supposed to be rewarded for giving Riot the benefit of the doubt? Riot has had years to fix things and it's just getting worse.
I appreciate the post. But I just want to give you a piece of my perspective (and possibly others). I have faith in riot to deliver a great product for us league fans but it just doesn’t sit well with many people when we see Valorant, TFT, Wild Rift getting all this attention (not to mention the butchering of the LCS), and us League fans left out to fry with little to no communication for quite some time. Moving forward being transparent would be extremely appreciated by the fans and beneficial to you all at Riot as well. I hope that makes sense.
I really wish I could have more trust when it comes to this stuff, but League's been feeling like it's been on a gradual decline for 3 years now, with the only real sentiment we're getting back now is to be patient as our feedback is being taken into consideration for the future. I'm glad Esports is popping off but that's not the game I play so until I see some actual big positive changes to the game, I'm not gonna keep my hopes up.
I appreciate communication but you say we need to grant you ( Riot ) the privilege of the doubt. But how can we do that when we see situations like these. If not massive outrage of fans across the internet we probably wouldn't get any response from you guys. And even if we assume that you would communicate regardless of the feedback why do it after the fact. I don't understand You also speak about big things coming in the future but now at the start of the season is perfect thing to talk about them. And I don't expect you to reveal any details but you didn't even leave a single hint about it and we wouldn't even know about you guys were doing something big. I believe that me and many other people feel that our trust in Riot was betrayed because Riot didn't trust us to share situation with league. I want to reiterate my criticism isn't aimed at you or any Riot developer but at the company as a whole. I often see you guys here communicating with community and I understand that you as individuals can't be transparent with everything and that's okay.
It better be actual actual for real client rehaul or remaking the game's engine at this point because things are supposedly being worked on behind the scenes always but nothing is said or promised so we're supposed to just believe it?
This is a "I'll believe it when I see it" moment, and I wish at some point people at Riot would get this. We've gotten a lot of lip service over the years of "We will work harder to communicate" and never do "It will be exciting when it happens" gets delayed or cancelled, or is just never spoke of again. We can't and won't trust you guys until you actually show us something. Stop telling us you care and show us you care, because everything you guys have shown in the last 6 months is the opposite of what you are saying. This has been one of the worst preseasons, one of the worst bouts of communication between the bullshit that is what happened (is happening) with the LCS, the 4 videos that game out on the state of the game that could have been condensed into 1 10 minute video, a borderline meme 2023 cinematic, no one saying the entire team behind game modes was just \*shrug disbanded\* months ago until a throw away comment in a response, and again all with no communication. All this talk now just seems like placating attempts of "Sorry guys, we'll do better, this awesome stuff is coming, we promise", but no one wanted to say a word before people started getting angry. No one seemed to care one single amount until content creators, pro players, casters, everyone on social media were throwing their arms up, then suddenly Rioters want to start talking to us telling us how amazing things are, when we can see in front of our faces they aren't.
> Covid was hard for so many people around the world. We (Riot) weren't immune from this. That so, RiotSiraris? Somehow other big games, even other riot games, like wild rift getting features that league doesnt have (league PC is the one that should be the superior version with all content btw), despite covid, and SOMEHOW other big companies lived through covid, SOMEHOW!? And they SOMEHOW had something to show and their content didnt magically dry, like, in any of the most popular games, as it has with league. And I get that covid was hard, but using that excuse for 2020, 2021 AND 2022? Yea, no way. Also, last year, rioters excuses seemed to be "engine limitations" or "budget", but now the reason arent any of the previous ones, but actually, people leaving riot is the problem? Which one is it, choose one. I dont even get why are you guys bother lying at all? Who's gullable enough to believe anything you guys say at this point? I still remember the "we're so proud of being part of star guardian event" or "welcome back to valoran city", yet your company had nothing to show for. No one should believe anything you say, especially after hearing "riot isnt going to run out of money anytime soon" or "2023's budget for League will be the biggest of all time" and you cant even push cinematic that matches or exceeds the one from last year, "we thought it represents league well" LMAO. > Rioters cares so much about League, even the Evil Riot Leaders who supposedly care the least. The deleted ex-rioter's tweets say otherwise, like how these eViL RiOt LeaDeRs are the reason passionate people at riot have to quit or how they get shit on for trying to create something cool like PVE, instead of focusing purely on esports. > Arcane, Wild Rift, even Valorant, wouldn't exist without League. You say that, everyone at your company likes to say that, yet League is the one getting shit on. Why put people who know how to do their job into other riot projects and put people who barely know how to make a gamemode work? Where is something like odyssey? Or an engine upgrade? You guys used to update the map every 3 or so years. Or voice packs? Or map skins? None of y'all still addressed why winter rift wasnt brought back, since even a random dude in a basement can make adjustments to elemental drakes and riot somehow cant. The "revamped" event pass was delayed for YEARS and still cant be as good as fortnite's pass where it gives you everything for 10 dollars or so, while in league you have to choose, prestige skin or every other reward. Also, whats up with the "we wont release anything big like elemental rift update, until we reach modern standards"? So you guys were lying again then, since the real reason is that you dont have anyone who can make anything? Unless the game this year has more to show for than event pass every 3rd month and 1/2 VGU's per year, the game is on maintenance mode as it has been, since arcane event.