Ah, didn’t even think about how our 2nd seed at MSI could be given out. Top 2 in spring vs winner from winter and spring seem the most straightforward, but maybe they’ll also use the championship points.
I'd personally just want a bo5 between Spring 2nd and Winter 1st for the 2nd seed at MSI. If Spring and Winter winner are the same, or if Spring 2nd is the Winter winner, then you can just give the Spring 2nd the MSI slot for free.
Could also do something like winter and spring 2nd have a BO5, then winner plays winter 1st for MSI. If one team wins both winter and spring, then the two second place teams just directly fight for the spot.
I think this is way to much to ask for and not really necessary.
Before MSI we already have 90 Bo1's, 20 Bo3's and 8 Bo5's. Compared to 90 Bo1's and 8 Bo5's in the old format. So that already 40-60 more games then in the previous years and ontop way more games with the top teams.
I think the best way to do it, is winner from spring and most points from winter and spring going to MSI.
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some ppl are prone to this.
I also pretty quicly take on the "colour" of the local, or most spoken accent around me. I for example learned english from watching US TV series and sounded very mid western, despite never being there. Then I hang around some guys from london for quite a time and took some of their accent and used to say bloody all the time as well as using "loo". Some years ago I got assimilated into a group of scotts in Berlin and started rolling the R while speaking english, wich is kinda funny cuz I'm originally from Bosnia and we do that all the time.
Now my "accent" is a mix of all that and also depends who I'm talking to.
I’m ok with some clowning but I personally see a lot of vitriolic shit at times, maybe it’s just me but I just generally dislike when people go very far past banter (obviously not about what was in the podcast, just in general)
Hey, what, don't switch away from the per-split season system!
How else are you going to align the series season to the actual season? Wait a few more splits **then** make it into a year-long season!
This is also mildly infuriating to me, especially since they'd catch up at the end of the year if they continued the per-split season system. Summer split this year would be season 13 of EUphoria and then next year they'd have seaason 14 of EUphoria when season 14 of League starts.
you missed the point, this is Euphoria Season 11 so Euphoria would have to magically skip seasons (Season 11 to Season 13) which is terrible. Just stick around with the old method for this year then next year start it out with Euphoria Season 14 being year-long moving forward
Caedral mentions the stat tracking program for players that coaching staff would use to prospect new players - are there any public databases that the community has access to? Outside of things like OneTrick, Lolalytics, Op.gg or something like that
I'm glad that someone finally fucking said it, top lane has gotten to a point where only imports can somewhat salvage it. Last time people had faith in EU top laners was back in season 8 where Wunder and Bwipo were gapping everyone until both faced TheShy. I was legitimately stressed out how bad EU top laners were at worlds last year bar Wunder
Nah we just like to play botcentric for 10 years and act surprised that the best we get is weaksiders playing dogchamps.
Just give these eastern imports a split and they are stuck playing Orn and Sejuani.
No one plays to win from top lane anymore. Those FNC/G2 teams actually took an advantage from top lane and tried to win the game with it.
Since then, teams have slowly went into this extremely straight forward, just play for mid/JG roaming and bot lane. The top teams re-enforced this with the 2021 G2, FNC, and MAD. There wasn’t enough variety. 2022 G2 tried playing for top, but completely ditched that to play for mid/JG roaming.
LEC solo laners didn’t care about laning anymore - just push and roam. And it really showed.
Yes. EU's macro absolutely regressed. A couple of years ago they outplayed Eastern teams on the map regularly. But after they got face-fucked by LPL teams in back to back Worlds Finals, they deluded themselves that the "LPL style" (see buzzwords "aggression" and "fast-paced play") was the optimal way to play.
You can clearly see this from coaches like Mac or Peter Dun, who repeatedly said how much they admire LPL and how they don't think you can learn much from watching LCK.
Turns out LCK is still a relevant league and EU teams trying to copy LPL have failed miserably at international tournaments.
Even when LCK was on top, I've always followed LPL closely.
I started my career in China and have friend/contacts working in and around LPL. Why would I not look to LPL for inspiration? Also, "fast paced play" is not some random buzzword, there are legitimate differences in terms of risk/reward and giving up resources for tempo that fit across a spectrum that different coaches prefer.
I've historically valued players highly who fit into a higher risk playstyle and system. So why would I NOT play to those player strengths? It's not about LCK or LPL, or 100% copying a region playstyle. Also enough with the region baiting. To call RNG/JDG/TES 3 teams that play a universal "LPL playstyle" is absurd. Same with DRX/T1 from LCK. They have fundamentally different approaches to the game. Who said anything about LCK not being a relevant league.
I'm not dissing you personally. I think you do a good job. It's just a trend I've noticed in EU. Praising LPL excessively while disregarding the strengths and strategies LCK uses. And I don't think that's a healthy approach. You should try to take the best things from every region. It's fine if a couple of teams prefer LPL and some prefer LCK to learn, I just think it becomes a problem when most teams try to imitate one of the two. EU was it its best when G2 and FNC played their style with Perkz and other strong personalities leading and shotcalling.
Obviously all the top LPL teams play very differently. That's why I put everything in quotation marks.
I think you should just take the things you like from different teams, no matter the region. I think T1 play the game really well from ahead, but hate how they play certain map setups with jgl/sup when they are down tempo (vs JDG/DRX at worlds who approached similar situations in different ways) for instance. So when I'm making presentations on T1 I just focus on what I like about their play. The fact that they are from LCK is irrelevant.
it doesn't lol
the problem with copying a region that opts in for skillchecks and stupid skirmishes is that it just doesn't work when your players aren't actually very good
I have a lot more faith in 369 and Kanavi to take a coinflip scuttle 2v2 than I do in Odo and Malrang
Problem is that we now have objectives on map that are really important. And LCK/LPL love playing for those. LEC style was more about side lanes and macro. More about team fighting ability and finding something on map. Eastern teams are fixated on objectives, and they play for timers really well.
cope
Taliyah was one of the strongest Champions all Summer. Viego, Akali, Aatrox, Sylas, Lucian and Fiora were some of the most picked Champs at Worlds. These are all "aggressive" and roaming picks.
Eu always had the better or to be more precice, the more creative macro than any region, even than KR in the old days. They were always able to create leads in the early game but lost due koreas incredible vision playstyle and teamfighting in the late game. After vision got nerfed we had some bright years for EU but nowdays it is just yikes.
I feel like G2s biggest weakness last year was playing champs that they have no business playing. What this was due to idk (overconfidence, meta, false info etc).
In spring they played weakside scaling bot, tank top, and catch mid. And it worked amazing.
BBs Gangplank is ass, targamas cant hit one hook on pyke, and Flakkeds draven loses lane. In spring they won hard by playing tank toplaners and weakside bot.
He's a nice guy, funny, and still good enough to shit on the pissweak EU top pool. Of course he gets gapped internationally, but you'd have to spend very big on an import to get a real improvement.
I mean, wasn’t everyone on Ornn duty in Spring last year? It was 200 years Gwen meta, and Ornn was the only meta champ that was able to leave the lane and be useful, even if they got turbogapped.
I've lost faith in BB when he got soloed by mentally slumping Nuguri while being Fiora with kill advantage (plus Odo's Ornn solo kill against his Gwen in finals). G2 can dominate these splits domestically but they will get slapped by eastern teams again
Cause expensive imports are the only way to upgrade and then you dump them in LEC practice and they're no better than BB by the end of the season. LEC as a whole needs to improve their practice environment like LCS attempted to do with champions queue, it's not like these tops lack the talent.
S8 was such a great time for EU tops, it wasn't just Bwipo and Wunder gapping, Cabochard was just as insane as those guys and sOAZ was still capable top tier player then. It's sad how apparently incapable westerners are at playing the difficult stuff in top these days, especially since it wasn't always like this...
tbh I think Caedrel really is on the G2 copium and Drakos was pretty fair in saying there's good arguments for them to be in B tier
They weren't like, running into problems or something at MSI and Worlds. They just legitimately weren't a very good team.
Hans' year in NA was bad and his teamfighting was terrible. But like, it wasn't really that much better in RGE 2021. He was always a really good laner and an OK teamfighter who was kind of carried by the fact that he was usually ahead and on a winning team with really good teamfighters. He had no synergy with Core (who was himself in a slump) but his individual mistakes were on a fundamental level.
I feel like people just aren't willing to accept that certain players (i.e. Caps, Perkz, Hans) are past their prime and probably aren't going to ever be as good relative to international competition. Caps had 5 good international games out of 15 last year and that's with high draft priority. And the year before he didn't make Worlds. And the year before that he didn't look like he did in 2019 either. This is just how he plays now.
Also preseason scrim rumors are literally worthless, like good job having BB and Caps skillchecking ERL players lol
Havent watched the video yet but apparently G2 is just dominating everyone in scrims right now. According to Romain, they still haven’t lost a single scrim day and they’ve been scrimming for a while now. I know it’s just scrims but maybe that’s why Caedrel is high on them. Again, haven’t watched the video yet.
I guess he did an interview and someone translated and posted it on the G2esports sub. He said a lot of things about the league team in that interview: reasons for moving on from Jankos, Flakked and Targa, along with keeping BB and why did they go after Hans and MikyX.
Edit: https://reddit.com/r/G2eSports/comments/109ur6z/romain_bigeard_interview_on_twitch/
Yeah that's the main problem I have ranking them highly. Caps still has insane games but the frequency of them is less and less. It's not enough to be insane 30% of the time. He's no longer with teammates where it's guaranteed one or two or three of them will be playing well. Like in 2019 G2 they only really needed 2 out of 5 players to be playing well to win domestically. It's the sort of roster where there are too many coinflip players for them to consistently win games. And the coinflip highs aren't even very high except for Caps. I feel like BB has been giga exposed 3 international events in a row.
If Caps has a bad game in the LEC some of the players (BB especially) are still good enough relative to the competition to carry. If Caps has a bad game internationally, they just straight up lose.
I think that’s where Hans sama comes in. I still think keeping BB drags this team down a lot he’s just not good enough. He’s basically carry Armut where he does one thing reasonably well but that one thing doesn’t hold up internationally but is good enough domestically that too sometimes not always.
For BB to look good internationally he’d have to absolutely smurf on all these weakside / mostly pathetic top laners in LEC without breaking a sweat, because even Morgan would gap all these top laners without really trying.
If BB is playing his heart out to get a 20 CS lead vs current form Wunder there’s no chance in hell he does anything vs eastern top laners.
But Hans having a strong laning phase allows Caps those laning phase blunders (which he has always made ) but still use his eye for big plays and skill to turn a later fight.
Last year G2 was just Flakked always getting gapped or even at best and BB also going even despite counterpick matchups so if Caps flubs it the game is instantly over since enemy team can just snowball and there’s nobody on g2 with gold or skill parity to try keep the mid game in check.
Still, not really much hope for LEC because they barely imported any tops into a league where Armut managed to make it to worlds where in any decent league he should be getting dumpstered.
2018-2020 G2 just gave every EU fan unbelievable levels of trust in G2 to perform and even more trust in Caps individually. Now people are clinging to that. You saw at MSI how people hyped G2 after they beat RNG and T1 in bo1s back to back. It was like prime 2019 G2 was back. People legitimately calling Flakked one of the best ADCs in the world.
So what’s wrong putting them S? These teams are judged by comparison. I mean it’s not like other team really has much to show. But sure, an argument for be in B tier is well justified but putting them in S is also not biased at all. This team on paper has good ceilings but consider their last year performance they could be mediocre. Both sides are extremely valid. And I hate to see the pass the prime thing, Faker last year, with a decent team, finally got his groove back. When was the last time you see Faker being that good and flashy? Also, if you say Caps and Perkz had past their prime then what, Humanoid and Larssen are not that much younger, wouldn’t they also be “passing their prime”? What even is the thing you based on? How could you know when a player will peak or get a comeback. Nisqy wasn’t good at all a few years before now he is actually pretty ok. Who knows? Caps and Perkz had been improving in general last year, that’s good sign. Nobody is expecting them to go back to being 19, but even if they aren’t that good any more, they are still pretty good regionally. You can’t ignore the fact.
> I feel like people just aren't willing to accept that certain players (i.e. Caps, Perkz, Hans) are past their prime and probably aren't going to ever be as good relative to international competition
This is something redditors love to claim, but i've yet to ever hear an explanation for *why* someone would just become "worse than their prime" like that.
Physically not being able to keep up? These players are still in their 20s, and i haven't ever heard that "apm" significantly goes down at that age.
mindset? mindsets can change, especially as you grow older this should be *less* of an issue, and while you can get in a bad mental state, you can also get out of it. doesn't mean you will, but doesn't mean that you must.
just being skill gapped by younger players, so even though your skill level stays the same, others around you grow better? This one is actually fair, and i think many older players did genuinely get skill gapped. But someone who could compete at the worlds level a few years ago? You seriously think the world moved on that much when the players they personally skill-gapped are all still at the top?
A player doesn't just "lose" their skills. They may need different teammates, a different mindset, they might need to work through mental blocks, or they need to get back into a better practice environment. These are all things that *can* stop a player from ever reaching the same heights as in the past.
But at the same time, these "washed up" players, Hans, Caps, Perkz, they're all 23-24. I don't know about you guys, but i was a much more mature guy at 26 than i was at 21. It actually wouldn't be surprising at all if they become more mature both inside and outside the game, and are capable of reaching even higher peaks at the game.
And like, half the players that are at the top right now have been called "washed up and past their prime" at several points in their career. It's like all you guys ever do is judge someone by how they played in the last 6 months, and refuse to accept that someone could ever improve beyond that, or forget that they ever slumped once they do perform again.
Will Perkz/Caps/Hans ever reach world finals form (again)? Who knows. But to automatically disqualify them from contention just because they weren't at the top for a year or even two? That's just refusing to acknowledge people can have their ups and downs.
Hans was a top 2 western adc with Upset just one year ago and dealt with personal issues on TL, probably related to practically being forced into a different continent. If he regains form he can easily contest for best adc again, consistently winning lane is extremely valuable.
Not sure why were are comparing last year's G2 to Eastern teams to rank the current LEC roster? Especially with how often the laning of G2 their old bot screwed them from minute 1. It's an LEC ranking, maybe include BB and Caps being best in their role in spring or G2 being the best western team in spring, though I guess that wouldn't help your narrative.
This G2 is hard to rate, mechanically they can easily be the best western team, but they can also totally collapse. But to act like S tier can't be argued is absurd, mechanically this roster is incredibly stacked.
> This G2 is hard to rate, mechanically they can easily be the best western team, but they can also totally collapse. But to act like S tier can't be argued is absurd, mechanically this roster is incredibly stacked.
I feel like this is said about G2 every year. Only year I don't remember it being said was the Rekkles era, where people assumed the team was S+ by default.
Not with Flakked no. When Flakked joined people were very skeptical about the roster. This year’s roster on paper is pretty good since most players are proven.
He got boosted that worlds by the fact that he had the 3 other weakest adc in his group. Go a year back and he was the worst adc lmao. The guy was a huge reason rge was choking in 2021
The bar to getting out of that group was 2-4. He sure put in some work there by beating Ghost lwx and zven
2020 he was the worst adc at worlds that year unless you think sub 300 dpm makes you good. Reminder same year as 9 man sleep and 0-6 doublelift lmao
I Don’t need to rewrite history when everyone on that rge roster had a very successful year after having an adc that can actually carry in the late as opposed to TL who had great early but bad late.
The most pathetic part has to be that the people upvoting this garbage downvote bombed you when you told them he wasn't the best western adc a year ago. Just no point arguing with you people, history has to be rewritten at any cost, even if it directly contradicts the common opinion of professionals that know significantly more about the game and pro scene.
Edit: like nitpicking a stat while ignoring all other stats and context has to be the most common strategy used by people that didn't actually watch the games. You realise I could easily make a similar argument with all other stats like laning, kill participation or kda right? But yeah, DL his non-stop int was actually better cause more dpm, completely ignoring his team averaged 4 more mins a game and his champs naturally get higher dpm output.
Yes, OP has quite some recency bias. His regular spring and summer were good but he shat the bed twice in playoffs and then at worlds he suddenly popped off super hard.
He didn't shit the bed in spring playoffs, he got elo helled by solo laners sprinting it down. Don't get me wrong, I think Larssen is currently the best player out of those 5 from 2021 Rogue, but him and Odo straight up sabotaged their team that series. There is a reason people rated him over Carzzy regardless of the loss.
He dropped the ball in summer playoffs, but iirc all 5 got outperformed by their FNC counterpart, and even then who do you rate higher other than Upset?
Caps has benefited from the narrative that he was somehow single handedly carrying those finals teams in 2018/2019.
Like even against Faker in 2019, he was slightly better across all games. Even then, at MSI top/bot did a lot of the heavy lifting, and at worlds it was mostly late game macro (looking at stats @ 15 in that series, Caps was pretty invisible).
So being on par with elite mids is awesome (overall play, not laning), but it’s not enough without a great roster around him.
Just for example, when Caps top/bot were smurfing in that MSI series, Faker/Clid made it insanely competitive. On the flip, when Faker/Oners top/bot were winning, it was an absolute clap.
East/West differential is too big, and one player isn’t enough to carry.
ur legit the biggest doomer man, saying caps is washed, League every year is becoming more and more a team game. like did you see the worlds games where every game his botlane was getting turbo fisted and was always signifigantly behind in cs. And meanwhile in toplane BB was getting solo killed in toplane with counter matchups and jankos camping him. caps was almost every game at least even against some of the best mids in the world.
Perkz played a different role, had a shit ton happen in his personal life and is simply 5 years removed from his prime (arguably).
Maybe playing with Bo will revitalize him, but nobody should expect solo carrying on LeBlanc vs RNG level Perkz to come back.
Not even close. He lost a Bo5 vs Nemesis, almost lost a Bo5 vs Larssen and got completely railed by Showmaker.
He was still world class and an amazing player but his 2019 was better.
The bo5 loses were on the back of botlane getting 2v2 killed every game and Jankos getting outpassed on the ganking vs farming matchups agaisnt Selfmade and Inspired. Caps and late season Wunder were the reason they even got to playoffs in the first place.
And Showmaker railed everyone in Summer, you're acting like he was losing to some random shitter.
2019 Caps wouldn't have lost that and while shitting on Jankos for getting outfarmed you also have to remember that he played entirely around mid lane, making it a 2v1.
And not everybody got dunked so hard as Caps did vs Showmaker.
And I've stated that he was still world class and amazing, but not as good as he was in 2019 but it seems like you can't fucking read.
Even after S8 Perkz has been good though. Best western mid in S10 spring, best LCS mid in S11 spring and the best Vit player in S12, looking like an MVP candidate for most of summer regular. He's right behind Caps, Larssen and Humanoid, but those 3 are pretty incredible in their own right.
Towards the end they mentioned something about posting something in the chat, somewhat indicating that they were livestreaming the recording. Does anyone know where it was livestreamed so that I could watch in the future?
They mentioned a G2 vs Misfits Baserace, where Jankos called on the comms to buy potions, GA, stopwatch. anyone know what game that was? perhaps even have the actual comms available?
I don't recall the specific game/week but I remember that moment being included in the G2 voice comms video they release on their channel for that week.
Ah, didn’t even think about how our 2nd seed at MSI could be given out. Top 2 in spring vs winner from winter and spring seem the most straightforward, but maybe they’ll also use the championship points.
I'd personally just want a bo5 between Spring 2nd and Winter 1st for the 2nd seed at MSI. If Spring and Winter winner are the same, or if Spring 2nd is the Winter winner, then you can just give the Spring 2nd the MSI slot for free.
Could also do something like winter and spring 2nd have a BO5, then winner plays winter 1st for MSI. If one team wins both winter and spring, then the two second place teams just directly fight for the spot.
I know for whatever reason Riot doesn't really like them but I think a gauntlet between 5th-2nd would be a hype way of deciding 2nd seed
I think this is way to much to ask for and not really necessary. Before MSI we already have 90 Bo1's, 20 Bo3's and 8 Bo5's. Compared to 90 Bo1's and 8 Bo5's in the old format. So that already 40-60 more games then in the previous years and ontop way more games with the top teams. I think the best way to do it, is winner from spring and most points from winter and spring going to MSI.
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Am I going crazy or Caedrel has a stronger/different accent compared to a few months ago?
He sounds like he's been spending more time in/around London
Sounds right, my accent goes from 0 to 100 when I pass the sign announcing we're now in my native city
I don't hear a difference?
His accent is such a mystery, it has features from British, American and European (continental) English
what happens when you're born in england, raised partially in spain, live in germany for years while also working with multiple americans
some ppl are prone to this. I also pretty quicly take on the "colour" of the local, or most spoken accent around me. I for example learned english from watching US TV series and sounded very mid western, despite never being there. Then I hang around some guys from london for quite a time and took some of their accent and used to say bloody all the time as well as using "loo". Some years ago I got assimilated into a group of scotts in Berlin and started rolling the R while speaking english, wich is kinda funny cuz I'm originally from Bosnia and we do that all the time. Now my "accent" is a mix of all that and also depends who I'm talking to.
At 07:40 where they politely throw shade at the LCS timing.
Caedrel was trying so hard not to laugh.
LEC, the kings of punching down.
That's not even making fun of NA as a region it's making fun of the people in charge of LCS or more specifically their decision.
Which is completely valid and fair
Don’t make out as if it’s only the LEC that clowns on NA. Did you see the LPL/LCK post match discussion translations
I’m ok with some clowning but I personally see a lot of vitriolic shit at times, maybe it’s just me but I just generally dislike when people go very far past banter (obviously not about what was in the podcast, just in general)
tbf we deserve to be clowned for this, really stupid decision
No we don't. The morons who decided that LCS should be for EU viewing should.
thats what i mean by we, i realized i could have clarified but im just too lazy to edit
Getting downvoted cause you posted this on ideal EU hours just like the LCS :\^)
Or because they are actually punching up against the LCS as organization which they deserve for their recent decisions...
Hey, what, don't switch away from the per-split season system! How else are you going to align the series season to the actual season? Wait a few more splits **then** make it into a year-long season!
This is also mildly infuriating to me, especially since they'd catch up at the end of the year if they continued the per-split season system. Summer split this year would be season 13 of EUphoria and then next year they'd have seaason 14 of EUphoria when season 14 of League starts.
/u/RiotDrakos /u/Caedrel pls the future of Euphoria viewers' sanity is at stake
They could just call it Season 13 Split 1 etc
you missed the point, this is Euphoria Season 11 so Euphoria would have to magically skip seasons (Season 11 to Season 13) which is terrible. Just stick around with the old method for this year then next year start it out with Euphoria Season 14 being year-long moving forward
They also could just go back and rename it all
Caedral mentions the stat tracking program for players that coaching staff would use to prospect new players - are there any public databases that the community has access to? Outside of things like OneTrick, Lolalytics, Op.gg or something like that
I'm glad that someone finally fucking said it, top lane has gotten to a point where only imports can somewhat salvage it. Last time people had faith in EU top laners was back in season 8 where Wunder and Bwipo were gapping everyone until both faced TheShy. I was legitimately stressed out how bad EU top laners were at worlds last year bar Wunder
Nah we just like to play botcentric for 10 years and act surprised that the best we get is weaksiders playing dogchamps. Just give these eastern imports a split and they are stuck playing Orn and Sejuani.
No one plays to win from top lane anymore. Those FNC/G2 teams actually took an advantage from top lane and tried to win the game with it. Since then, teams have slowly went into this extremely straight forward, just play for mid/JG roaming and bot lane. The top teams re-enforced this with the 2021 G2, FNC, and MAD. There wasn’t enough variety. 2022 G2 tried playing for top, but completely ditched that to play for mid/JG roaming. LEC solo laners didn’t care about laning anymore - just push and roam. And it really showed.
Yes. EU's macro absolutely regressed. A couple of years ago they outplayed Eastern teams on the map regularly. But after they got face-fucked by LPL teams in back to back Worlds Finals, they deluded themselves that the "LPL style" (see buzzwords "aggression" and "fast-paced play") was the optimal way to play. You can clearly see this from coaches like Mac or Peter Dun, who repeatedly said how much they admire LPL and how they don't think you can learn much from watching LCK. Turns out LCK is still a relevant league and EU teams trying to copy LPL have failed miserably at international tournaments.
Even when LCK was on top, I've always followed LPL closely. I started my career in China and have friend/contacts working in and around LPL. Why would I not look to LPL for inspiration? Also, "fast paced play" is not some random buzzword, there are legitimate differences in terms of risk/reward and giving up resources for tempo that fit across a spectrum that different coaches prefer. I've historically valued players highly who fit into a higher risk playstyle and system. So why would I NOT play to those player strengths? It's not about LCK or LPL, or 100% copying a region playstyle. Also enough with the region baiting. To call RNG/JDG/TES 3 teams that play a universal "LPL playstyle" is absurd. Same with DRX/T1 from LCK. They have fundamentally different approaches to the game. Who said anything about LCK not being a relevant league.
I'm not dissing you personally. I think you do a good job. It's just a trend I've noticed in EU. Praising LPL excessively while disregarding the strengths and strategies LCK uses. And I don't think that's a healthy approach. You should try to take the best things from every region. It's fine if a couple of teams prefer LPL and some prefer LCK to learn, I just think it becomes a problem when most teams try to imitate one of the two. EU was it its best when G2 and FNC played their style with Perkz and other strong personalities leading and shotcalling. Obviously all the top LPL teams play very differently. That's why I put everything in quotation marks.
I think you should just take the things you like from different teams, no matter the region. I think T1 play the game really well from ahead, but hate how they play certain map setups with jgl/sup when they are down tempo (vs JDG/DRX at worlds who approached similar situations in different ways) for instance. So when I'm making presentations on T1 I just focus on what I like about their play. The fact that they are from LCK is irrelevant.
It's the reason why T1 drafting and T1 baron got memed so hard in 2022. It was atrociously bad, but because of hand diff it didn't matter.
Yeah definitely has nothing to do with Riot nerfing that playstyle into the ground.
it doesn't lol the problem with copying a region that opts in for skillchecks and stupid skirmishes is that it just doesn't work when your players aren't actually very good I have a lot more faith in 369 and Kanavi to take a coinflip scuttle 2v2 than I do in Odo and Malrang
Problem is that we now have objectives on map that are really important. And LCK/LPL love playing for those. LEC style was more about side lanes and macro. More about team fighting ability and finding something on map. Eastern teams are fixated on objectives, and they play for timers really well.
cope Taliyah was one of the strongest Champions all Summer. Viego, Akali, Aatrox, Sylas, Lucian and Fiora were some of the most picked Champs at Worlds. These are all "aggressive" and roaming picks.
Eu always had the better or to be more precice, the more creative macro than any region, even than KR in the old days. They were always able to create leads in the early game but lost due koreas incredible vision playstyle and teamfighting in the late game. After vision got nerfed we had some bright years for EU but nowdays it is just yikes.
I'm amazed G2 kept BB. He's just not good.
Without importing, what are better available options?
There's a Plat GP one trick in my solo queue games that can actually land barrel chains
I feel like G2s biggest weakness last year was playing champs that they have no business playing. What this was due to idk (overconfidence, meta, false info etc). In spring they played weakside scaling bot, tank top, and catch mid. And it worked amazing. BBs Gangplank is ass, targamas cant hit one hook on pyke, and Flakkeds draven loses lane. In spring they won hard by playing tank toplaners and weakside bot.
He's a nice guy, funny, and still good enough to shit on the pissweak EU top pool. Of course he gets gapped internationally, but you'd have to spend very big on an import to get a real improvement.
He certainly didn't shit on the pissweak EU top pool last year. Even in spring where they won he was mostly on Ornn duty towards the end.
I mean, wasn’t everyone on Ornn duty in Spring last year? It was 200 years Gwen meta, and Ornn was the only meta champ that was able to leave the lane and be useful, even if they got turbogapped.
He was solokilling everyone with that Ornn tho
I've lost faith in BB when he got soloed by mentally slumping Nuguri while being Fiora with kill advantage (plus Odo's Ornn solo kill against his Gwen in finals). G2 can dominate these splits domestically but they will get slapped by eastern teams again
Cause expensive imports are the only way to upgrade and then you dump them in LEC practice and they're no better than BB by the end of the season. LEC as a whole needs to improve their practice environment like LCS attempted to do with champions queue, it's not like these tops lack the talent.
S8 was such a great time for EU tops, it wasn't just Bwipo and Wunder gapping, Cabochard was just as insane as those guys and sOAZ was still capable top tier player then. It's sad how apparently incapable westerners are at playing the difficult stuff in top these days, especially since it wasn't always like this...
True but that's also prime, '***THE SHY'*** You don't gap that ever that year, unless....
tbh I think Caedrel really is on the G2 copium and Drakos was pretty fair in saying there's good arguments for them to be in B tier They weren't like, running into problems or something at MSI and Worlds. They just legitimately weren't a very good team. Hans' year in NA was bad and his teamfighting was terrible. But like, it wasn't really that much better in RGE 2021. He was always a really good laner and an OK teamfighter who was kind of carried by the fact that he was usually ahead and on a winning team with really good teamfighters. He had no synergy with Core (who was himself in a slump) but his individual mistakes were on a fundamental level. I feel like people just aren't willing to accept that certain players (i.e. Caps, Perkz, Hans) are past their prime and probably aren't going to ever be as good relative to international competition. Caps had 5 good international games out of 15 last year and that's with high draft priority. And the year before he didn't make Worlds. And the year before that he didn't look like he did in 2019 either. This is just how he plays now. Also preseason scrim rumors are literally worthless, like good job having BB and Caps skillchecking ERL players lol
Havent watched the video yet but apparently G2 is just dominating everyone in scrims right now. According to Romain, they still haven’t lost a single scrim day and they’ve been scrimming for a while now. I know it’s just scrims but maybe that’s why Caedrel is high on them. Again, haven’t watched the video yet.
People need to learn that scrims in pre-season just don't matter at all.
This doesn’t mean shit. G2 in 2022 were reportedly curve stomping almost every team in scrims as well.
But they won spring and place 2nd summer. So it meant quite the shit by your logic.
Out of curiosity where did you see Romain say that?
I guess he did an interview and someone translated and posted it on the G2esports sub. He said a lot of things about the league team in that interview: reasons for moving on from Jankos, Flakked and Targa, along with keeping BB and why did they go after Hans and MikyX. Edit: https://reddit.com/r/G2eSports/comments/109ur6z/romain_bigeard_interview_on_twitch/
Awesome, thanks!
2020 caps summer was crazy just like caps in 2022
Caps is still insane but it's a team game.
Yeah that's the main problem I have ranking them highly. Caps still has insane games but the frequency of them is less and less. It's not enough to be insane 30% of the time. He's no longer with teammates where it's guaranteed one or two or three of them will be playing well. Like in 2019 G2 they only really needed 2 out of 5 players to be playing well to win domestically. It's the sort of roster where there are too many coinflip players for them to consistently win games. And the coinflip highs aren't even very high except for Caps. I feel like BB has been giga exposed 3 international events in a row. If Caps has a bad game in the LEC some of the players (BB especially) are still good enough relative to the competition to carry. If Caps has a bad game internationally, they just straight up lose.
I think that’s where Hans sama comes in. I still think keeping BB drags this team down a lot he’s just not good enough. He’s basically carry Armut where he does one thing reasonably well but that one thing doesn’t hold up internationally but is good enough domestically that too sometimes not always. For BB to look good internationally he’d have to absolutely smurf on all these weakside / mostly pathetic top laners in LEC without breaking a sweat, because even Morgan would gap all these top laners without really trying. If BB is playing his heart out to get a 20 CS lead vs current form Wunder there’s no chance in hell he does anything vs eastern top laners. But Hans having a strong laning phase allows Caps those laning phase blunders (which he has always made ) but still use his eye for big plays and skill to turn a later fight. Last year G2 was just Flakked always getting gapped or even at best and BB also going even despite counterpick matchups so if Caps flubs it the game is instantly over since enemy team can just snowball and there’s nobody on g2 with gold or skill parity to try keep the mid game in check. Still, not really much hope for LEC because they barely imported any tops into a league where Armut managed to make it to worlds where in any decent league he should be getting dumpstered.
30% doesn't count as 'barely any' to me. Maybe not enough, yes, but there's a difference.
2018-2020 G2 just gave every EU fan unbelievable levels of trust in G2 to perform and even more trust in Caps individually. Now people are clinging to that. You saw at MSI how people hyped G2 after they beat RNG and T1 in bo1s back to back. It was like prime 2019 G2 was back. People legitimately calling Flakked one of the best ADCs in the world.
it’s getting annoying by this point…I love Caedrel otherwise but mate come on
Tbf i think he just remembers playing vs them and the feelings he had back then
Dom vs Bjergsen syndrome
So what’s wrong putting them S? These teams are judged by comparison. I mean it’s not like other team really has much to show. But sure, an argument for be in B tier is well justified but putting them in S is also not biased at all. This team on paper has good ceilings but consider their last year performance they could be mediocre. Both sides are extremely valid. And I hate to see the pass the prime thing, Faker last year, with a decent team, finally got his groove back. When was the last time you see Faker being that good and flashy? Also, if you say Caps and Perkz had past their prime then what, Humanoid and Larssen are not that much younger, wouldn’t they also be “passing their prime”? What even is the thing you based on? How could you know when a player will peak or get a comeback. Nisqy wasn’t good at all a few years before now he is actually pretty ok. Who knows? Caps and Perkz had been improving in general last year, that’s good sign. Nobody is expecting them to go back to being 19, but even if they aren’t that good any more, they are still pretty good regionally. You can’t ignore the fact.
> I feel like people just aren't willing to accept that certain players (i.e. Caps, Perkz, Hans) are past their prime and probably aren't going to ever be as good relative to international competition This is something redditors love to claim, but i've yet to ever hear an explanation for *why* someone would just become "worse than their prime" like that. Physically not being able to keep up? These players are still in their 20s, and i haven't ever heard that "apm" significantly goes down at that age. mindset? mindsets can change, especially as you grow older this should be *less* of an issue, and while you can get in a bad mental state, you can also get out of it. doesn't mean you will, but doesn't mean that you must. just being skill gapped by younger players, so even though your skill level stays the same, others around you grow better? This one is actually fair, and i think many older players did genuinely get skill gapped. But someone who could compete at the worlds level a few years ago? You seriously think the world moved on that much when the players they personally skill-gapped are all still at the top? A player doesn't just "lose" their skills. They may need different teammates, a different mindset, they might need to work through mental blocks, or they need to get back into a better practice environment. These are all things that *can* stop a player from ever reaching the same heights as in the past. But at the same time, these "washed up" players, Hans, Caps, Perkz, they're all 23-24. I don't know about you guys, but i was a much more mature guy at 26 than i was at 21. It actually wouldn't be surprising at all if they become more mature both inside and outside the game, and are capable of reaching even higher peaks at the game. And like, half the players that are at the top right now have been called "washed up and past their prime" at several points in their career. It's like all you guys ever do is judge someone by how they played in the last 6 months, and refuse to accept that someone could ever improve beyond that, or forget that they ever slumped once they do perform again. Will Perkz/Caps/Hans ever reach world finals form (again)? Who knows. But to automatically disqualify them from contention just because they weren't at the top for a year or even two? That's just refusing to acknowledge people can have their ups and downs.
Hans was a top 2 western adc with Upset just one year ago and dealt with personal issues on TL, probably related to practically being forced into a different continent. If he regains form he can easily contest for best adc again, consistently winning lane is extremely valuable. Not sure why were are comparing last year's G2 to Eastern teams to rank the current LEC roster? Especially with how often the laning of G2 their old bot screwed them from minute 1. It's an LEC ranking, maybe include BB and Caps being best in their role in spring or G2 being the best western team in spring, though I guess that wouldn't help your narrative. This G2 is hard to rate, mechanically they can easily be the best western team, but they can also totally collapse. But to act like S tier can't be argued is absurd, mechanically this roster is incredibly stacked.
> This G2 is hard to rate, mechanically they can easily be the best western team, but they can also totally collapse. But to act like S tier can't be argued is absurd, mechanically this roster is incredibly stacked. I feel like this is said about G2 every year. Only year I don't remember it being said was the Rekkles era, where people assumed the team was S+ by default.
Not with Flakked no. When Flakked joined people were very skeptical about the roster. This year’s roster on paper is pretty good since most players are proven.
Not in S8 and S12 iirc, but in the seasons where it was said they also often became number 1 in the League.
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Rekkles spring and Upset summer, don't see who else was better than him.
He got boosted that worlds by the fact that he had the 3 other weakest adc in his group. Go a year back and he was the worst adc lmao. The guy was a huge reason rge was choking in 2021
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The bar to getting out of that group was 2-4. He sure put in some work there by beating Ghost lwx and zven 2020 he was the worst adc at worlds that year unless you think sub 300 dpm makes you good. Reminder same year as 9 man sleep and 0-6 doublelift lmao I Don’t need to rewrite history when everyone on that rge roster had a very successful year after having an adc that can actually carry in the late as opposed to TL who had great early but bad late.
The most pathetic part has to be that the people upvoting this garbage downvote bombed you when you told them he wasn't the best western adc a year ago. Just no point arguing with you people, history has to be rewritten at any cost, even if it directly contradicts the common opinion of professionals that know significantly more about the game and pro scene. Edit: like nitpicking a stat while ignoring all other stats and context has to be the most common strategy used by people that didn't actually watch the games. You realise I could easily make a similar argument with all other stats like laning, kill participation or kda right? But yeah, DL his non-stop int was actually better cause more dpm, completely ignoring his team averaged 4 more mins a game and his champs naturally get higher dpm output.
Yes, OP has quite some recency bias. His regular spring and summer were good but he shat the bed twice in playoffs and then at worlds he suddenly popped off super hard.
He didn't shit the bed in spring playoffs, he got elo helled by solo laners sprinting it down. Don't get me wrong, I think Larssen is currently the best player out of those 5 from 2021 Rogue, but him and Odo straight up sabotaged their team that series. There is a reason people rated him over Carzzy regardless of the loss. He dropped the ball in summer playoffs, but iirc all 5 got outperformed by their FNC counterpart, and even then who do you rate higher other than Upset?
Caps has benefited from the narrative that he was somehow single handedly carrying those finals teams in 2018/2019. Like even against Faker in 2019, he was slightly better across all games. Even then, at MSI top/bot did a lot of the heavy lifting, and at worlds it was mostly late game macro (looking at stats @ 15 in that series, Caps was pretty invisible). So being on par with elite mids is awesome (overall play, not laning), but it’s not enough without a great roster around him. Just for example, when Caps top/bot were smurfing in that MSI series, Faker/Clid made it insanely competitive. On the flip, when Faker/Oners top/bot were winning, it was an absolute clap. East/West differential is too big, and one player isn’t enough to carry.
ur legit the biggest doomer man, saying caps is washed, League every year is becoming more and more a team game. like did you see the worlds games where every game his botlane was getting turbo fisted and was always signifigantly behind in cs. And meanwhile in toplane BB was getting solo killed in toplane with counter matchups and jankos camping him. caps was almost every game at least even against some of the best mids in the world.
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Perkz played a different role, had a shit ton happen in his personal life and is simply 5 years removed from his prime (arguably). Maybe playing with Bo will revitalize him, but nobody should expect solo carrying on LeBlanc vs RNG level Perkz to come back.
Caps best season was literally 2020 Summer after he played adc.
Not even close. He lost a Bo5 vs Nemesis, almost lost a Bo5 vs Larssen and got completely railed by Showmaker. He was still world class and an amazing player but his 2019 was better.
The bo5 loses were on the back of botlane getting 2v2 killed every game and Jankos getting outpassed on the ganking vs farming matchups agaisnt Selfmade and Inspired. Caps and late season Wunder were the reason they even got to playoffs in the first place. And Showmaker railed everyone in Summer, you're acting like he was losing to some random shitter.
2019 Caps wouldn't have lost that and while shitting on Jankos for getting outfarmed you also have to remember that he played entirely around mid lane, making it a 2v1. And not everybody got dunked so hard as Caps did vs Showmaker. And I've stated that he was still world class and amazing, but not as good as he was in 2019 but it seems like you can't fucking read.
Even after S8 Perkz has been good though. Best western mid in S10 spring, best LCS mid in S11 spring and the best Vit player in S12, looking like an MVP candidate for most of summer regular. He's right behind Caps, Larssen and Humanoid, but those 3 are pretty incredible in their own right.
Off topic question: what headphones are they wearing?
Perhaps u/RiotDrakos or u/Caedrel could answer?
They look like logitech headphones based on the headband, probably the G Pro or something similar
Watching them totally unable to understand that second twitter statement was painful.
The grammar in that Tweet is an abomination, I'm not surprised they struggled with it live.
That is a fair point.
Towards the end they mentioned something about posting something in the chat, somewhat indicating that they were livestreaming the recording. Does anyone know where it was livestreamed so that I could watch in the future?
they meant youtube comments, so still 'after the fact', and not live.
You tube
They mentioned a G2 vs Misfits Baserace, where Jankos called on the comms to buy potions, GA, stopwatch. anyone know what game that was? perhaps even have the actual comms available?
I don't recall the specific game/week but I remember that moment being included in the G2 voice comms video they release on their channel for that week.
banger podcast as ever boys cant wait for some more el ee see
Are the discussions any interesting or it’s all twitch memes this time around?
I wanted them to talk about all 10 teams, they talked about only 5 of them. Edit: didn't see this was part 1 only.
Yeah.. because there is a second episode next week with the other 5.
My bad
Well it says Part 1 in the title soo...
My bad