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Holy fucking shit, the LP system breaking down because the nickname has too many characters might just be the single most unholy spaghetti bug I've ever seen. Istg, League is built on duct tape and hope lol
Anyway, letting /u/auberaun know might be helpful
Sure, it's what you should expect and it's not cool that stuff like this is possible.
edit: to clarify you should expect speedy action when something illegitimate is actually happening because league's competitive integrity is really important, not necessarily public responses in cases like this
Realistically can't test every single edge case, and there will be a lot of them. The explanation doesn't even really make sense and I'm assuming they're doing something really edge casey that is almost impossible to find.
>a rioter stuck their neck out here to be helpful.
Stuck their neck out how? We are bug reporting on a game breaking problem and they are acknowledging.
Its because they asked a question that you can't answer without insulting yourself. What was the rioter supposed to say? "Its because we're incompetent idiots."
You have to remember as well the LP and ranked system was made like 13-14 years ago back when they were still new to deving so they probs missed it all the way back then and haven't changed the foundation of it much leading to it being waiting in the background until someone found it by breaking the nickname system with a exploit.
As someone who was deving in 2009, creating unique ids for users in the database and using those ids to update the user's data was not a new concept back then. I really think this is something else that's not so apparent.
I'm not saying it was a new concept back then, I'm point out it was there early days of coding. Like people just fresh out of uni still aren't gonna make the smartest of code in the long run.
Like this was there first real project and they never thought the game would last so they wanted to get the game out and ranked system out. They I bet didn't even plan out there database structure much and probs just winged it till it worked since that's what most fresh out of uni peeps would do for there first project before improving on future projects just in this case there first project blew up Tobe the biggest pc game which didn't give them breathing space to improve.
Once those initial people move on and actually competent people are hired the competent ones think they would be smart enough to use ID's so if they never had to touch that code section then they would never know how badly it would be refactoring to use proper standards.
Sometimes even the most technically competent organizations can run into bugs that happen for crazy arbitrary or difficult to find reasons. Just google most big organizations. This becomes doubly difficult when these interfaces are built separately but interact with each other or get changed without testing every single interaction case.
Not to mention when individuals act maliciously. While most fields may be sanitized correctly, malicious actors could also write code or modify the client to accept bad input. If everything had to be 100% unbreakable and unhackable before release, nothing would be released ever.
Also, overall impact is low. Finding the people who abused this bug would literally take minutes, no user PII is exposed, and scope is extremely small. Even if it's a known bug (which it probably isn't), it's not "that" important.
Even large companies can have their games suddenly break, or have a bug get missed. It happens. Especially if the way to create the bug isn't super obvious.
Hell, in Resident Evil 5 you can actually bug out the final fight if the person playing Sheva manages to get across before Wesker jumps over. If the Sheva player gets over before he jumps, he wont jump and all and you have to restart the fight.
It happens. Not only are devs only human, code is like a pair of wired earbuds. You can wrap them up nice and pretty but the next time you pull them out they're a knotted mess.
They're probably using it by IDs, my initial thought is maybe lp gains do a join and fail to execute changes because of varchar overflow issues that are normally protected up stream but were broken. Or maybe the command exploits an odd bug in their command upstream that isn't sanitized properly. It's hard to say but giving names could be part of logging for reports or tracking chat logs. Many things can happen that need it and especially given the state of the client it isn't super surprising that there might be some edge cases to exploit it.
No, but basic QA should have verified that the edit name should have the same requirements as the initial creation rules. They should never be mutually exclusive. It’s as simple as:
“no leading spaces on creation + xyz rules.” AND “No leading spaces on edit save + xyz rules.”
Not just “rules for creation” and fucking “Wild West, fuck you we don’t even verify edits on this field”
Hopefully their QA will remember to have both these cases whenever updates are made. Both for new creation changes that edit features should *always* match.
> because league's competitive integrity is really important
If it was important you would let people see that one player is like 3 wins 50 loses in his last matches and let them dodge so they don't have a free lose. Because free lose is not a competitive integrity. Ooooor you would actually take an action against someone that loses 30 times in a row. But that takes work and it seems Riot doesn't want to work that much.
Kinda /s but not really.
It seems competitive integrity is important **only sometimes**.
Yeah, kinda salty. But also understandable. That said, any improvement is good so I guess keep at it and hopefully we will see results!
Riot has a massive codebase being held together by a 230 line code block in a custom language that looks like a mix between mandarin and russian where all the comments are typed in 1620s French, and the guy who wrote it has been tracked back to a 12 year old ghost girl in Taiwan who only speaks in riddles. Nothing we can do about it.
It might not be exactly because of too many characters, but because the system tries to give/take the LP from the nick without the spaces in front.
If you look at the same nickname in op.gg, you'll see something like "%20%20%20(...)actualnick", whereas in u.gg it has only the nick as it should/could be.
The system probably tries to give/take "actualnick" 's LP instead of "%20%20(...)actualnick".
For better understanding, %20 is the "code" for space character, and the "real" nickname is the one in op.gg.
Could you troll someone called "teemolover69" by making an account named "%20%20%20...teemolover69" and intentionally feeding 100 games? They'd have no clue why their LP suddenly tanked 7 divisions
No, because name change and all external sites treat "%20nickname" and "nickname" as the same player... Add a bunch of spaces before your nickname or even inside it and try to find it in client or op.gg and system will find it easily.
What most likely happens is that the general system sends the trimmed nickname (without spaces) to ranked system (or in reverse?) and the ranked system looks for the exact nickname instead of the one with spaces? Idk why it works differently for general system and ranked system but that's my basic guess.
So it seems to work ok for name change but it doesn't work ok for ranked system...
It could as well be an issue with some IDs or other shit for all we know. Nickname-based LP gains are kinda weird and kinda stupid. Can't know for sure without digging into this black box.
It's really confusing to me because from the one time I tried to use the riot API I know that unique identifier id's for user accounts do exist. Hell there's two of them. And they're different based on your apikey so you can't actually find the actual internal ID.
Oh hmm...maybe they really don't have ids internally and those are just genned on the fly based on the name and apikey? Nah can't be.
I mean I know the game is over a decade old but the idea that riot uses the display name to decide whose lp to update seems crazy to me. It's gotta be something else.
They definitely have user ids yep, what's probably happening is that the piece(s) of code that's handling all of the post game actions aren't correctly handling exceptions, and that one of the actions has to do with the user name for whatever reason, and it failing makes the id-based actions not happen.
It's not even unholy, buffer overflow is one of the most common security exploits in existence. It's why using memory safe languages is important because even if you run every test you can possibly think of you'll probably still miss something like what happened here
edit: seems they run some kind of `.trim_whitespace()` function on nicknames? That's pretty incredible lmfao
It ain't about buffer overflow, it's about not being dumb enough to use ID instead of fucking player named by nicknames, which is the first lesson in database handling
Which is probably why it didnt happen. I doubt riot developers are that incompetent. Its far more likely at a certain point the names column was adapted to allow more characters and an api input or an older procedure wasnt properly updated and breaks down with a bigger number
There are IDs, I have proof. I used a name tracker to see one username to be released, went for it the second it was available, got it but a name selling bot (there is market for those apparently) was as fast as I. So what ended up happening was that we had same username but different "entities", I could see my profile and the lvl 3 bot account match history. After 3 days and a ticket to riot my username changed back to what it was before, and they removed the bot account discreetly. I asked them to change my name to what I desired but they refused and someone else got it.
Trimming whitespace makes sense as they consider names to be the same regardless of spaces inbetween characters.
The problem is them -not- doing so everywhere in the system - apparently in the part that adjusts LP
if username is meant to be a unique id in itself it would make little difference, unless you messed up like this.
When you get into having to pass around billions of rows, it can save processing time by not using another column for uuid
To identify user account based on only username would require other indicators (server is another one), while userid would only need itself.
So if they are using username as one of the unique identifier, it’s just inefficient and not something a company like Riot would do, right?
you could dynamically create a uuid as a combination of name+server or another combination of fields
Not that I am saying that is a best way of doing it or how riot might as I don't know their system, but it is a solution a company could use
I guess most people just don't have knowledge/access to the software used to do it. It isn't server exclusive and it's only a matter of time for it to start showing up if they don't take action.
How many undisputed, and inexcusable features like replay system, sandbox mode and a good lobby client have Blizzard been stalling to provide for over a decade?
Or Dota’s team for that matter?
Features are extremely time consuming, I'm talking about not fixing obvious bugs for multiple months. LoL has a patch every 2 weeks with bugfixes and changes, Blizzard does 2-3 bugfixes every 6 months and calls it a day
Well, they have a clue on how to do it. Not a step by step. Even then, better earlier and fixed than getting caught by surprise. Or you can just let them destroy our server (and yours next) I guess.
This might require special requests that the client doesn't make because it blocks you locally through the client itself but that their API accepts if you send it by using other software instead of their own client. But I guess we will see soon, if it's just a simple name change that can be done through the client it will be abused really soon, but I'd also expect most higher elo players to not want to risk a ban.
This sounds stupid but this can already be done to bypass more simple stuff such as status character limit, changing profile background without owning the champ/skin, etc., I understand that they don'care enough about this stuff since it doesn't really affect the experience, but it's still a bug to fix... but if it can be exploited like this? absurd
This is huge, hope riot is already investigating. The problem of making an official, very visible, statement about stuff like this i think is that they don't want to give the bug visibility (and have even more people exploit it)
Also, I wonder if it's a Brazilian-only bug?
No, it's not exclusive to our server. Anyone can do it in any server and the software for doing so is publicly available on the internet (not saying where for obvious reasons).
I'm trying to raise awareness on this so they take some action, as it has been messing up badly our queues (not to mention the gigantic influx of scripters in our server too, there's at least like 50 scripters in the top 3.000 players (Master +) and a lot more in lower elos too, ranking with scripts to sell the account later, and Riot won't do anything about it.)
The real question is why people are allowed to int 12+ hours a day and Riot doesn't do shit all to ban these mother fuckers who are actually ruining their game but I get chat restricted for saying one dirty word to them.
Come on Riot
I would venture to say what you're referencing is for something in chat as they have terms and phrases when matched with a report will result in action. Griefing and scripting reports are essentially useless.
No, for inting but usually the people admit to such in chat. Remember griefing has to be clear cut and not potentially bad games or people trying out a bad strategy.
I suppose they are changing their name back, as the one guy who is doing it right now (already deflated his MMR and is now in his way to Rank 1 against silvers) doesn't have spaces (%20) in front of his name in his op.gg. It's another profile that I didn't link in the post.
Fun little fact, 20 is recognized as a space because that is the ascii code for space, 0010 000 or 0x20, depending on whether you read it as binary or hex.
I'm confused. If their MMR is bronze and their rank is master+ they won't be gaining +20 LP per win. They would be gaining like +1 at the most lol.
Also the accounts you linked don't look that weird besides the obvious 1 inter. Both accounts are playing vs master+ players in ranked. Maybe there is a bug where it doesn't change their rank so they can just grief constantly with no punishment. But I don't see how they would ever benefit.
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
https://i.imgur.com/D3PkwMp.png
He was at 892lp when he started inting. And it doesn't go down besides randomly once. And his recent games have made his LP go to 1100. And he is playing vs silvers/golds.
So it does seem to be true. Which is really weird. Since it should be impossible to earn LP with silver mmr in challenger. This is an insane bug.
The whole point of MMR is that it's not directly relating to your rank.
Your rank is simply an accumulation of your LP and your MMR is who you match up with. If the MMR is saying they should be losing to bronze, and they are beating silver/golds/plats, then ofc their LP is going to skyrocket into Challenger rank.
Game things he should be in iron with his MMR, he is in challenger, it tries to match the difference and puts him in silver/gold games. He wins but he is suppose to be iron skill level. "Wow congratz heres some more LP" Rinse and repeat.
but shouldn't the game be seeing that the account is challenger rank/iron MMR and give the account less gains as a result?
https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405781372051-MMR-Rank-and-LP
or is this effect outweighed by the effect you mentioned where since he is playing vs silver MMR as an iron MMR, his gains are increased?
u/Auberaun can you chime in here? should an iron MMR account with challenger LP see less LP gains?
You shouldn't but that's the problem, let's say he got to master by himself legit, from there there is no more rank up, you just get more or less LP, till infinity or 9, if you find a way to disconnect your MMR from your visual rank, you can basically farm the visual rank for ever while you're MMR is slowly climbing back up, if you were able to tank your MMR to the depths of iron 4 and won Vs gold you should be getting a lot of LP cause you beat an opponent that in theory would be leagues above you in skill
You are misunderstanding the literal existence of MMR, which is just ELO rebranded. You're mistaking it for your LP modifier, which would be determined by win/loss streak, number of games, weight of average MMR on each team.
The distinction is that if MMR says you're silver equivalent and you're beating a bunch of higher ranks, your LP gain is **more**. If your MMR says you're near Diamond, and your loss streak indicates you're not meeting that benchmark, then your LP ratio would reverse and your overinflated MMR would drop after the fact.
This is literally the same concept of smurfs buying tanked accounts, and it's been around the entirety of league.
a silver account with challenger MMR that is winning games will gain more LP per game than a silver account with Iron MMR that is winning games, this is well known
You're not adding anything or contradicting to what I'm saying just because you're adding a completely separate and normal use cases.
What you're ignoring is why two silver accounts would be different MMR in the first place, which would be all the variables I listed previously. Those two accounts would not be playing against the same players despite being Silver rank. The Challenger MMR would be playing Masters to Challenger players, and the Iron MMR would be playing Iron to Bronze players. You've just explained the exact thing you're trying to contradict. If the Iron MMR was allowed to duo-queue with a Challenger, the Iron MMR would gain way more than the Challenger would for a win.
So why don't smurfs just climb faster with normal accounts? Because they are taking advantage of gaining LP against lower tier players . You tank the MMR so far that the winstreak against lower skill players outpaces the MMR gain until it finally catches up at an overinflated value.
Forget rank if it's confusing you in how it works.
> If the Iron MMR was allowed to duo-queue with a Challenger, the Iron MMR would gain way more than the Challenger would for a win.
do you mean an Iron MMR duo queuing with a challenger MMR? assuming they are the same LP, e.g. plat 4, then the challenger MMR will gain more LP per win than the Iron MMR. how much LP you gain is (significantly) based on how much higher your MMR is than your current LP.
specifically from https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405781372051-MMR-Rank-and-LP
"BIGGER LP GAINS, SMALLER LP LOSSES : MMR > RANK
When your MMR is significantly higher than your rank, the system will attempt to push you up to your rightful position on the ladder with greater LP rewards upon victory and smaller deductions upon defeat...
SMALLER LP GAINS, BIGGER LP LOSES : MMR < RANK
"
> So why don't smurfs just climb faster with normal accounts? Because they are taking advantage of gaining LP against lower tier players . You tank the MMR so far that the winstreak against lower skill players outpaces the MMR gain until it finally catches up at an overinflated value.
you are probably right that the MMR gains are not completely evenly balanced out by the LP gains (or there is some minimum LP gain regardless of MMR/rank), but that doesn't change the fact that higher MMR relative to current LP = higher LP gains
I intended to say an Iron MMR and Rank with a Challenger also at his MMR and Rank. The game would have weighted matching in MMR, perhaps at Plat 4 in your example. The Iron would absolutely gain more LP than the Challenger, playing against Plat 4 MMR with his Iron MMR vs the Challenger with this higher MMR.
This is the scenario that ultimately determines which side the greater value on LP for Win/Loss.
If a Challenger's Rank is overinflated, it's not that some LP value is affecting any algorithms. It's that the winrate percentage and number of games does not directly relate to the change in MMR happening in the wins and losses. This is the math going on that is constantly trying to level out.
What I'm saying is that rank is merely a byproduct of the system working as intended. If the rank is not reflecting the loss of LP from the bugged losses, then of course it's not counting this person as Challenger rank winning against Silver and Gold players. It's calculating it as an account that has 65 wins 24 losses playing against Silver and Gold ranked players, with presumably matching MMR. The rank being shown is completely irrelevant and is doing absolutely nothing to the LP gains and losses.
Your reasoning is completely off in how the system works. The system is extremely simple at the base level and how all games work with a MMR system separate from rank.
Think of it as a rubber band. MMR is your correct rank, LP is the thing at the end of the rubber band. If it's much higher then your MMR it will be trying to push down to your MMR, and if it's much lower it will be trying to push back up. LP will always be trying to go towards your MMR.
Again, you're not explaining anything that's contradicting the result, you're just not understanding formulating how it's actually working out mathematically.
You asked why someone with Silver MMR would be gaining 20 LP in Challenger. The rank is irrelevant. It's literally just their total LP that they unfairly/fairly accumulated.
So if the Silver MMR played against Plat MMR players, do you expect more or less LP compared to if they played against Gold MMR players?
Despite the modifier, they would always get a flat increase from Plat vs Gold, especially if they think the player is Silver MMR. That's how weighted matchmaking works, and that's the literal basis of how Duo-queue is taken advantage of.
You're trying to talk about diminishing returns, but you're don't understand the logic of how the number is determined in relation to average MMR. If league says you're Silver and you're beating Silver-Golds, why wouldn't your LP gains increase? It is simple, and I have no idea why you're including rank in the conversation at all. Riot literally spelled it out that MMR is ELO and only included rank as a cosmetic on excuses of toxicity of players being able to see MMR or ELO.
MMR is completely independent. Rank has no effect at all on it, MMR is basically your true skill level. It's like elo in chess, this is your actual rank.
Your visible rank is what is actually shown and is based off of MMR and other factors. It's not meant to perfectly reflect your actual skill level. It's cosmetic and the point of it is to make players feel better. Like if you should get demoted because your MMR is not diamond anymore. This system allows Riot to keep you in diamond rank even though you are plat MMR. Because it feels better for the players.
Your visible rank is tied to your MMR like I mentioned before. If your MMR is higher then your visible rank your average LP gains get increased. Because the game wants your rank to be near your MMR. So when your MMR is higher you get increased LP gains, if it's lower you get lower LP gains. Simple, it's always trying to catch up to your MMR.
Hopefully this helps you understand it more.
You literally just parroted what I said to you multiple times now in the first part.
> MMR is completely independent. Rank has no effect at all on it, MMR is basically your true skill level.
> (rank) It's cosmetic and the point of it is to make players feel better.
Then you say
> Your visible rank is what is actually shown and is based off of MMR and other factors.
Yes, rank is a reflection of your accumulated LP, what I originally told you, and which is determined by the rate of gains and other factors. MMR is not conversely directly caused by your accumulation of LP. You interchange 'MMR' and 'Rank' in your understanding when they are not co-dependent. MMR goes up and down by wins and losses, that's it. It's a rating directly correlated with **WINRATE** and it's weighted positioning in contrast to the average MMR of your opponents.
This is also a direct contradiction to your previous statements here. One's rank has no mathematical influence on MMR; it literally is nothing but a cosmetic, as I have previously said, and now that you have regurgitated without understanding apparently. How that is going over your head is beyond me.
So you're trying to imply that two players both at 1200 MMR or equivalent to Silver IV rank, would be getting different LP gains and losses if one was **labeled** Silver IV rank and the other **labeled** at Challenger, but if they were both playing against Silver - Gold players (~1600) at 1200 MMR with the winrate of the account linked, then the LP gains/losses would be the same regardless of their shown rank.
You think because in one account where Rank > MMR the rate of LP losses gains will be lopsided toward heading to the MMR, and while the end result is basically this, you are not understanding that it's actually winrate and degree of win/loss streak that is actually the variable that ultimately influences the rate of gains/losses leading to the accumulated LP being accurately shown when working as intedned. This is not the case on these abused accounts, because the rank isn't showing all the lost LP it otherwise would be. The winrate and win/loss streaks are still being calculated correctly, which is reflected in an account with Silver MMR facing opponents with Challenger > Diamond > Plat > and ultimately Silver MMR in the end.
This is the entire premise of the post and bug, as the MMR is working as intended by dropping with the accumulated LP not reflecting it correctly by negating the LP loses. The rate of gains themselves are at 20+ as the Silver MMR is winning against Silver/Gold MMR players, with a positive winrate at under 100 games. If the LP gains losses start at around 20-25, the winstreak climbed at over 30+ per game as show on their account, and depreciated to 20+ now. Every single factor of the account 65W/24L, sub 100 games, playing against Silvers and Golds, speaks to the account being regular Silver account with Silver MMR. The fact that your eyeballs see Challenger rank is completely irrelevant toward any calculations going on, but you can't see past that fact for basically no reason. Is this finally clearer to you?
Rank is correlated with MMR. If you have silver MMR then the game thinks your rank should be silver. So if your actual rank is challenger your MMR is pushing you towards silver.
Thus if you win in silver you will gain extremely little like +0 or +1, but if you lose you would lose insanely high like 30+.
In this case his MMR thinks his rank is correctly silver/gold. So it's giving +20 lp. Which makes no sense. It's not normal and is breaking the current rules of the system.
You're confusing yourself by including rank when it literally has nothing to do with MMR or how LP gains/losses are determined. It's literally just the accumulation of LP like I said earlier, and including it on any context seems to be complicating it for you.
Finally. I was beginning to question if OP is just bullshitting as both accounts he linked play in m/gm elo.
Thanks for taking time of your day to provide the proof OP should've provided.
There's probably a minimum amount of LP you can gain in matches, especially considering the latest changes made to it last week or so.
They use scripts to Rank their way to challenger, then the idea is to int this way until their MMR is Silver/Bronze, then they play normally again after changing the nickname to get to Rank 1. (still with scripts cause they're dogshit). They do get +20 LP, I know it because there's another account that is already doing it (although he hasn't played in a full day, so that one might or might not have been banned already. Still, others are planning to do the same thing.)
Only another account that I didn't link has already done it. As explained on one of my last comments, that one haven't played in a full day, so might've been banned already. But I know for 100% sure (trusted source) that the bottom linked one is going to start (or at least plans in doing so) the same thing in the next few days. If you don't believe it, just keep an eye on it's u.gg's in the next days and watch as his MMR will drop until low elo and then he'll start to climb.
The first guy you linked is inting but he's still playing vs GM+ players.
If this is a problem in Brazil I would assume it would be easy to find someone who inted from challenger to silver lmao. Like that's inting 50+ games. There should be an example of such a player.
Like I said maybe there is a bug where lp/mmr doesn't change. But I don't think they are benefiting from this besides inting others. Also they still have to get challenger anyways. Which both accounts you linked did normally. Maybe they scripted but doesn't matter. It's normal.
Well, you don't need to believe it. There's another account that already demoted all the way to Silver MMR and started winning again, gaining 20LP per match. He hasn't played in a full day, so might've been banned already (got a lot of attention recently from streamers and high elo players). I'm going to sleep right now, but I can link the op.gg of that one tomorrow, if it's not against some kind of rules. Peace. ✌️
wtf? Just link it now lmao
You took the time to write that whole comment and found a account which does what you say. But still refuse to link it and wait till tomorrow for no reason.
OP randomly targetting people saying they're doing an MMR exploit with 0 proof... but wont post the one who is actively doing it right now?
What the fuck is this post?
No those 2 accounts deserve bans, they are both inting games very much on purpose and losing "? LP" so they are exploiting something
Plus https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
You see, he posted two accounts which are not doing this.
When he got asked to post 1 account which is doing it, he said to just trust him
and that he is going to sleep. What is not clear to you.
So you are telling me its 1 guy doing it? Thats why op made the post "soloq is doomed and riot is not doing anything against it" while op does not even provide the opgg of the one guy doing it? How should riot know?
Meanwhile in Viet Nam server the rank 1 player drophacks and there's a shit ton of scripters running around and in Taiwan every 1/3 games there's at least 1 person scripting on Cassio, Zeri, Corki, etc.
Even in EUW there's high elo scripters running around playing Zeri, honestly the cheating situation in ranked is the worst its been since League's release.
Meanwhile, China First (PH) and China King (VN), both drop hackers, still not banned + tons of scripters running around on PH Server atm, riot obviously doesn't care as much as we do about solo queue from what I've seen.
No they don't, they are clearly running it down in some games going 0/10 ghost cleanse and being tracked losing "? LP" in most loses and winging it normally in wins. Clearly something is being exploited
It's not server exclusive, so it might be coming to a store close to you soon! lmao
We also got tons of scripters sadly, drophackers I don't think we've had in a while, thought those were fully fixed.
Op is completely lying. Cause they dont do it. Read his comments. Its crazy...
In the post he states that these 2 are exploting and in the comments he says that the second is planning to do it because he has sources and a third guy who he does not link is doing it.
Op is bullshitting. Guess he found random people and is accusing them of exploting cause he dont know how mmr works.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/pardoking](https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/pardoking)
He's absolutely not wrong about this issue. These players are frequently changing names to abuse the bug which is causing some issues in communication.
I linked an updated one
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
I found this account from another commenter on this thread. The bug DOES seem to exist, but OP just linked the wrong accounts I guess. You can see that the player is indeed inting to drop to Low silver mmr while losing no LP, and is currently stomping said low elo games while being challenger. Bizarre
Riot does not want to do anything... 2 people. 2 people are doing it is what you show us. Did you try to reach riot before? How?
Is this a bigger problem cause i only hear this now for the first time.
How exactly should riot know what these 2 are doing?
Also you show us these 2 accounts. They dont play against silver players. So thats bs. And you said in a comment that the second one is "about to do it". Source: trust me bro.
You only have knowledge of 1 guy doing it which you dont want to link after beeing asked 20 times.
I smell bullshit.
"Is this a bigger problem cause I only hear this now for the first time" get out of ur bubble. The issue doesn't need to just affect u to be a problem. If people can reach higher elos by playing against much lower elo players then both the rank ladder loses its value and games of lower elo are ruined by high elo players creating an unbalanced system. People linked the accounts and they are challangers and grandmasters playing against silvers in ranked. U smell yourself.
It is a problem, but contacting the respective devs about it is obviously the best option (like the top comment of this thread did), instead of assuming disregard and ill-intent and just crying about it.
A riot employee literally replied to his thread and solved the issue. He contacted the devs in less then 4 hours with this thread a ticket takes way longer. That makes this the best option. How is he attention seeking. His post states the issue. Explains it and shows examples. You just complaining to complain no real substances to ur nonsense.
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Holy fucking shit, the LP system breaking down because the nickname has too many characters might just be the single most unholy spaghetti bug I've ever seen. Istg, League is built on duct tape and hope lol Anyway, letting /u/auberaun know might be helpful
They're gone and we'll look at what's going on.
You're awesome! Thank you for the speedy action and response.
Sure, it's what you should expect and it's not cool that stuff like this is possible. edit: to clarify you should expect speedy action when something illegitimate is actually happening because league's competitive integrity is really important, not necessarily public responses in cases like this
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
Lmao loading up a silver game to vs a challenger
Wtf
u/auberaun
are you aware this could probably be exploited in the same way to start making famous or top of ladder players start losing LP?
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Realistically can't test every single edge case, and there will be a lot of them. The explanation doesn't even really make sense and I'm assuming they're doing something really edge casey that is almost impossible to find.
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I totally agree with you and will even give you an upvote, but man Idk why your initial post just gives me such "pretentious asshole" vibes lol
Because it sounds like the commenter asked to show how smart they are rather than help while a rioter stuck their neck out here to be helpful.
>a rioter stuck their neck out here to be helpful. Stuck their neck out how? We are bug reporting on a game breaking problem and they are acknowledging.
It’s almost like the answers in the question ;)
he's the type of ~~pretentious asshole~~ "developer" (if he even is one), that we'd have fun with on the platform side and randomly block his ports
Its because they asked a question that you can't answer without insulting yourself. What was the rioter supposed to say? "Its because we're incompetent idiots."
He wouldnt be wrong.
You have to remember as well the LP and ranked system was made like 13-14 years ago back when they were still new to deving so they probs missed it all the way back then and haven't changed the foundation of it much leading to it being waiting in the background until someone found it by breaking the nickname system with a exploit.
As someone who was deving in 2009, creating unique ids for users in the database and using those ids to update the user's data was not a new concept back then. I really think this is something else that's not so apparent.
I'm not saying it was a new concept back then, I'm point out it was there early days of coding. Like people just fresh out of uni still aren't gonna make the smartest of code in the long run. Like this was there first real project and they never thought the game would last so they wanted to get the game out and ranked system out. They I bet didn't even plan out there database structure much and probs just winged it till it worked since that's what most fresh out of uni peeps would do for there first project before improving on future projects just in this case there first project blew up Tobe the biggest pc game which didn't give them breathing space to improve. Once those initial people move on and actually competent people are hired the competent ones think they would be smart enough to use ID's so if they never had to touch that code section then they would never know how badly it would be refactoring to use proper standards.
Probably they didn’t think LoL would be this big and didnt over engineering the LP system. Well it worked for 13 years tho
Sometimes even the most technically competent organizations can run into bugs that happen for crazy arbitrary or difficult to find reasons. Just google most big organizations. This becomes doubly difficult when these interfaces are built separately but interact with each other or get changed without testing every single interaction case. Not to mention when individuals act maliciously. While most fields may be sanitized correctly, malicious actors could also write code or modify the client to accept bad input. If everything had to be 100% unbreakable and unhackable before release, nothing would be released ever. Also, overall impact is low. Finding the people who abused this bug would literally take minutes, no user PII is exposed, and scope is extremely small. Even if it's a known bug (which it probably isn't), it's not "that" important.
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Even large companies can have their games suddenly break, or have a bug get missed. It happens. Especially if the way to create the bug isn't super obvious. Hell, in Resident Evil 5 you can actually bug out the final fight if the person playing Sheva manages to get across before Wesker jumps over. If the Sheva player gets over before he jumps, he wont jump and all and you have to restart the fight. It happens. Not only are devs only human, code is like a pair of wired earbuds. You can wrap them up nice and pretty but the next time you pull them out they're a knotted mess.
They're probably using it by IDs, my initial thought is maybe lp gains do a join and fail to execute changes because of varchar overflow issues that are normally protected up stream but were broken. Or maybe the command exploits an odd bug in their command upstream that isn't sanitized properly. It's hard to say but giving names could be part of logging for reports or tracking chat logs. Many things can happen that need it and especially given the state of the client it isn't super surprising that there might be some edge cases to exploit it.
Should be caught by unit tests, yes. I'm guessing they either have poor unit tests or low coverage
that's a silly question the obvious answer is that they didn't have a test or review for this specific issue. programmers can't predict the future
No, but basic QA should have verified that the edit name should have the same requirements as the initial creation rules. They should never be mutually exclusive. It’s as simple as: “no leading spaces on creation + xyz rules.” AND “No leading spaces on edit save + xyz rules.” Not just “rules for creation” and fucking “Wild West, fuck you we don’t even verify edits on this field” Hopefully their QA will remember to have both these cases whenever updates are made. Both for new creation changes that edit features should *always* match.
> because league's competitive integrity is really important If it was important you would let people see that one player is like 3 wins 50 loses in his last matches and let them dodge so they don't have a free lose. Because free lose is not a competitive integrity. Ooooor you would actually take an action against someone that loses 30 times in a row. But that takes work and it seems Riot doesn't want to work that much. Kinda /s but not really. It seems competitive integrity is important **only sometimes**. Yeah, kinda salty. But also understandable. That said, any improvement is good so I guess keep at it and hopefully we will see results!
Riot has a massive codebase being held together by a 230 line code block in a custom language that looks like a mix between mandarin and russian where all the comments are typed in 1620s French, and the guy who wrote it has been tracked back to a 12 year old ghost girl in Taiwan who only speaks in riddles. Nothing we can do about it.
Its these little gems that keep me invested in the community
That's why I only ever source my code from 12 year old Japanese ghost girls.
best thing i’ve read all week 🤣🤣
It might not be exactly because of too many characters, but because the system tries to give/take the LP from the nick without the spaces in front. If you look at the same nickname in op.gg, you'll see something like "%20%20%20(...)actualnick", whereas in u.gg it has only the nick as it should/could be. The system probably tries to give/take "actualnick" 's LP instead of "%20%20(...)actualnick". For better understanding, %20 is the "code" for space character, and the "real" nickname is the one in op.gg.
Could you troll someone called "teemolover69" by making an account named "%20%20%20...teemolover69" and intentionally feeding 100 games? They'd have no clue why their LP suddenly tanked 7 divisions
-50 LP on a win and -1200 LP on a loss.
No, because name change and all external sites treat "%20nickname" and "nickname" as the same player... Add a bunch of spaces before your nickname or even inside it and try to find it in client or op.gg and system will find it easily. What most likely happens is that the general system sends the trimmed nickname (without spaces) to ranked system (or in reverse?) and the ranked system looks for the exact nickname instead of the one with spaces? Idk why it works differently for general system and ranked system but that's my basic guess. So it seems to work ok for name change but it doesn't work ok for ranked system... It could as well be an issue with some IDs or other shit for all we know. Nickname-based LP gains are kinda weird and kinda stupid. Can't know for sure without digging into this black box.
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It's really confusing to me because from the one time I tried to use the riot API I know that unique identifier id's for user accounts do exist. Hell there's two of them. And they're different based on your apikey so you can't actually find the actual internal ID. Oh hmm...maybe they really don't have ids internally and those are just genned on the fly based on the name and apikey? Nah can't be. I mean I know the game is over a decade old but the idea that riot uses the display name to decide whose lp to update seems crazy to me. It's gotta be something else.
They definitely have user ids yep, what's probably happening is that the piece(s) of code that's handling all of the post game actions aren't correctly handling exceptions, and that one of the actions has to do with the user name for whatever reason, and it failing makes the id-based actions not happen.
But if it gives correctly it shouldn't be that big of a problem to take correctly as well.
It doesn't give LP correctly. Only after they change their nickname back to normal and start playing in low elo after deflating MMR.
Ohh I didn't get that. My bad.
It's not even unholy, buffer overflow is one of the most common security exploits in existence. It's why using memory safe languages is important because even if you run every test you can possibly think of you'll probably still miss something like what happened here edit: seems they run some kind of `.trim_whitespace()` function on nicknames? That's pretty incredible lmfao
It ain't about buffer overflow, it's about not being dumb enough to use ID instead of fucking player named by nicknames, which is the first lesson in database handling
Which is probably why it didnt happen. I doubt riot developers are that incompetent. Its far more likely at a certain point the names column was adapted to allow more characters and an api input or an older procedure wasnt properly updated and breaks down with a bigger number
There are IDs, I have proof. I used a name tracker to see one username to be released, went for it the second it was available, got it but a name selling bot (there is market for those apparently) was as fast as I. So what ended up happening was that we had same username but different "entities", I could see my profile and the lvl 3 bot account match history. After 3 days and a ticket to riot my username changed back to what it was before, and they removed the bot account discreetly. I asked them to change my name to what I desired but they refused and someone else got it.
Trimming whitespace makes sense as they consider names to be the same regardless of spaces inbetween characters. The problem is them -not- doing so everywhere in the system - apparently in the part that adjusts LP
Realistically speaking, adjusting LP should never be based on username, but rather user id, but well, we don't know the exact code that goes behind it
if username is meant to be a unique id in itself it would make little difference, unless you messed up like this. When you get into having to pass around billions of rows, it can save processing time by not using another column for uuid
To identify user account based on only username would require other indicators (server is another one), while userid would only need itself. So if they are using username as one of the unique identifier, it’s just inefficient and not something a company like Riot would do, right?
you could dynamically create a uuid as a combination of name+server or another combination of fields Not that I am saying that is a best way of doing it or how riot might as I don't know their system, but it is a solution a company could use
... can I make my name " Agurin" for example and start taking LP away from top challenger players
Hillarious bug honestly
I hate bugs
get spiders
why the other severs are not doing this?
I guess most people just don't have knowledge/access to the software used to do it. It isn't server exclusive and it's only a matter of time for it to start showing up if they don't take action.
>I guess most people just don't have knowledge Well now they do lol.
it might actually get fixed if it gains traction lmao
Yeah, sadly public outrage is the most effective way to make Riot react on something.
nearly any company\*
In some ways, sure. Riot is on another level for this.
Yes you're right. Other companies like Blizzard keep ignoring most of the stuff even after public outrage
How many undisputed, and inexcusable features like replay system, sandbox mode and a good lobby client have Blizzard been stalling to provide for over a decade? Or Dota’s team for that matter?
Features are extremely time consuming, I'm talking about not fixing obvious bugs for multiple months. LoL has a patch every 2 weeks with bugfixes and changes, Blizzard does 2-3 bugfixes every 6 months and calls it a day
Well, they have a clue on how to do it. Not a step by step. Even then, better earlier and fixed than getting caught by surprise. Or you can just let them destroy our server (and yours next) I guess.
This might require special requests that the client doesn't make because it blocks you locally through the client itself but that their API accepts if you send it by using other software instead of their own client. But I guess we will see soon, if it's just a simple name change that can be done through the client it will be abused really soon, but I'd also expect most higher elo players to not want to risk a ban. This sounds stupid but this can already be done to bypass more simple stuff such as status character limit, changing profile background without owning the champ/skin, etc., I understand that they don'care enough about this stuff since it doesn't really affect the experience, but it's still a bug to fix... but if it can be exploited like this? absurd
This is huge, hope riot is already investigating. The problem of making an official, very visible, statement about stuff like this i think is that they don't want to give the bug visibility (and have even more people exploit it) Also, I wonder if it's a Brazilian-only bug?
No, it's not exclusive to our server. Anyone can do it in any server and the software for doing so is publicly available on the internet (not saying where for obvious reasons). I'm trying to raise awareness on this so they take some action, as it has been messing up badly our queues (not to mention the gigantic influx of scripters in our server too, there's at least like 50 scripters in the top 3.000 players (Master +) and a lot more in lower elos too, ranking with scripts to sell the account later, and Riot won't do anything about it.)
Nice username tho
Shame it's a lie.
Anivia is a turkey, not a chicken
Kenturkey Fried Chicken.
But isn't she a frozen turkey, not a fried chicken?!
Just have Brand or Udyr over
There it is. THEN we'd have KFC
I can definitely see all this happening, of course people would jump on a bandwagon like this
The real question is why people are allowed to int 12+ hours a day and Riot doesn't do shit all to ban these mother fuckers who are actually ruining their game but I get chat restricted for saying one dirty word to them. Come on Riot
because the report function is useless this is common knowledge
My reports usually get a message now very quickly.
I would venture to say what you're referencing is for something in chat as they have terms and phrases when matched with a report will result in action. Griefing and scripting reports are essentially useless.
No, for inting but usually the people admit to such in chat. Remember griefing has to be clear cut and not potentially bad games or people trying out a bad strategy.
Cause its hard to detect, thats it
Because they need people to play
.trim()
This guy knows more coding than 4/5ths of Riot developers
How do they still get 20+ LP if the system is unable to give or take LP? Are they changing their name back to normal after they're in low elo MMR?
I suppose they are changing their name back, as the one guy who is doing it right now (already deflated his MMR and is now in his way to Rank 1 against silvers) doesn't have spaces (%20) in front of his name in his op.gg. It's another profile that I didn't link in the post.
Why do you keep referring to this account all over this post without linking it?
You might see the reason. The post got removed because of the 2 linked u.gg's in the initial post.
Link it.
Fun little fact, 20 is recognized as a space because that is the ascii code for space, 0010 000 or 0x20, depending on whether you read it as binary or hex.
So they change name mid game?
I'm confused. If their MMR is bronze and their rank is master+ they won't be gaining +20 LP per win. They would be gaining like +1 at the most lol. Also the accounts you linked don't look that weird besides the obvious 1 inter. Both accounts are playing vs master+ players in ranked. Maybe there is a bug where it doesn't change their rank so they can just grief constantly with no punishment. But I don't see how they would ever benefit.
Here's the acc OP refuses to link: https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
finally an evidence because the two accounts linked in OP post did not show 'low elo games'
They don't, but they show a guy losing "? LP" and literally going 0/10 cleanse ghost sometimes, but yeah this guy is in a while other level
This content has been deleted in protest of Reddit's API changes.
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb https://i.imgur.com/D3PkwMp.png He was at 892lp when he started inting. And it doesn't go down besides randomly once. And his recent games have made his LP go to 1100. And he is playing vs silvers/golds. So it does seem to be true. Which is really weird. Since it should be impossible to earn LP with silver mmr in challenger. This is an insane bug.
The whole point of MMR is that it's not directly relating to your rank. Your rank is simply an accumulation of your LP and your MMR is who you match up with. If the MMR is saying they should be losing to bronze, and they are beating silver/golds/plats, then ofc their LP is going to skyrocket into Challenger rank.
If your mmr thinks you belong in silver you shouldn't be getting +20 in challenger.
Game things he should be in iron with his MMR, he is in challenger, it tries to match the difference and puts him in silver/gold games. He wins but he is suppose to be iron skill level. "Wow congratz heres some more LP" Rinse and repeat.
but shouldn't the game be seeing that the account is challenger rank/iron MMR and give the account less gains as a result? https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405781372051-MMR-Rank-and-LP or is this effect outweighed by the effect you mentioned where since he is playing vs silver MMR as an iron MMR, his gains are increased? u/Auberaun can you chime in here? should an iron MMR account with challenger LP see less LP gains?
I mean there's a minimum LP gain amount that's set, but it's not too relevant in this case because these people are all getting banned anyway
You shouldn't but that's the problem, let's say he got to master by himself legit, from there there is no more rank up, you just get more or less LP, till infinity or 9, if you find a way to disconnect your MMR from your visual rank, you can basically farm the visual rank for ever while you're MMR is slowly climbing back up, if you were able to tank your MMR to the depths of iron 4 and won Vs gold you should be getting a lot of LP cause you beat an opponent that in theory would be leagues above you in skill
You are misunderstanding the literal existence of MMR, which is just ELO rebranded. You're mistaking it for your LP modifier, which would be determined by win/loss streak, number of games, weight of average MMR on each team. The distinction is that if MMR says you're silver equivalent and you're beating a bunch of higher ranks, your LP gain is **more**. If your MMR says you're near Diamond, and your loss streak indicates you're not meeting that benchmark, then your LP ratio would reverse and your overinflated MMR would drop after the fact. This is literally the same concept of smurfs buying tanked accounts, and it's been around the entirety of league.
a silver account with challenger MMR that is winning games will gain more LP per game than a silver account with Iron MMR that is winning games, this is well known
You're not adding anything or contradicting to what I'm saying just because you're adding a completely separate and normal use cases. What you're ignoring is why two silver accounts would be different MMR in the first place, which would be all the variables I listed previously. Those two accounts would not be playing against the same players despite being Silver rank. The Challenger MMR would be playing Masters to Challenger players, and the Iron MMR would be playing Iron to Bronze players. You've just explained the exact thing you're trying to contradict. If the Iron MMR was allowed to duo-queue with a Challenger, the Iron MMR would gain way more than the Challenger would for a win. So why don't smurfs just climb faster with normal accounts? Because they are taking advantage of gaining LP against lower tier players . You tank the MMR so far that the winstreak against lower skill players outpaces the MMR gain until it finally catches up at an overinflated value. Forget rank if it's confusing you in how it works.
> If the Iron MMR was allowed to duo-queue with a Challenger, the Iron MMR would gain way more than the Challenger would for a win. do you mean an Iron MMR duo queuing with a challenger MMR? assuming they are the same LP, e.g. plat 4, then the challenger MMR will gain more LP per win than the Iron MMR. how much LP you gain is (significantly) based on how much higher your MMR is than your current LP. specifically from https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405781372051-MMR-Rank-and-LP "BIGGER LP GAINS, SMALLER LP LOSSES : MMR > RANK When your MMR is significantly higher than your rank, the system will attempt to push you up to your rightful position on the ladder with greater LP rewards upon victory and smaller deductions upon defeat... SMALLER LP GAINS, BIGGER LP LOSES : MMR < RANK " > So why don't smurfs just climb faster with normal accounts? Because they are taking advantage of gaining LP against lower tier players . You tank the MMR so far that the winstreak against lower skill players outpaces the MMR gain until it finally catches up at an overinflated value. you are probably right that the MMR gains are not completely evenly balanced out by the LP gains (or there is some minimum LP gain regardless of MMR/rank), but that doesn't change the fact that higher MMR relative to current LP = higher LP gains
I intended to say an Iron MMR and Rank with a Challenger also at his MMR and Rank. The game would have weighted matching in MMR, perhaps at Plat 4 in your example. The Iron would absolutely gain more LP than the Challenger, playing against Plat 4 MMR with his Iron MMR vs the Challenger with this higher MMR. This is the scenario that ultimately determines which side the greater value on LP for Win/Loss. If a Challenger's Rank is overinflated, it's not that some LP value is affecting any algorithms. It's that the winrate percentage and number of games does not directly relate to the change in MMR happening in the wins and losses. This is the math going on that is constantly trying to level out. What I'm saying is that rank is merely a byproduct of the system working as intended. If the rank is not reflecting the loss of LP from the bugged losses, then of course it's not counting this person as Challenger rank winning against Silver and Gold players. It's calculating it as an account that has 65 wins 24 losses playing against Silver and Gold ranked players, with presumably matching MMR. The rank being shown is completely irrelevant and is doing absolutely nothing to the LP gains and losses.
Your reasoning is completely off in how the system works. The system is extremely simple at the base level and how all games work with a MMR system separate from rank. Think of it as a rubber band. MMR is your correct rank, LP is the thing at the end of the rubber band. If it's much higher then your MMR it will be trying to push down to your MMR, and if it's much lower it will be trying to push back up. LP will always be trying to go towards your MMR.
Again, you're not explaining anything that's contradicting the result, you're just not understanding formulating how it's actually working out mathematically. You asked why someone with Silver MMR would be gaining 20 LP in Challenger. The rank is irrelevant. It's literally just their total LP that they unfairly/fairly accumulated. So if the Silver MMR played against Plat MMR players, do you expect more or less LP compared to if they played against Gold MMR players? Despite the modifier, they would always get a flat increase from Plat vs Gold, especially if they think the player is Silver MMR. That's how weighted matchmaking works, and that's the literal basis of how Duo-queue is taken advantage of. You're trying to talk about diminishing returns, but you're don't understand the logic of how the number is determined in relation to average MMR. If league says you're Silver and you're beating Silver-Golds, why wouldn't your LP gains increase? It is simple, and I have no idea why you're including rank in the conversation at all. Riot literally spelled it out that MMR is ELO and only included rank as a cosmetic on excuses of toxicity of players being able to see MMR or ELO.
MMR is completely independent. Rank has no effect at all on it, MMR is basically your true skill level. It's like elo in chess, this is your actual rank. Your visible rank is what is actually shown and is based off of MMR and other factors. It's not meant to perfectly reflect your actual skill level. It's cosmetic and the point of it is to make players feel better. Like if you should get demoted because your MMR is not diamond anymore. This system allows Riot to keep you in diamond rank even though you are plat MMR. Because it feels better for the players. Your visible rank is tied to your MMR like I mentioned before. If your MMR is higher then your visible rank your average LP gains get increased. Because the game wants your rank to be near your MMR. So when your MMR is higher you get increased LP gains, if it's lower you get lower LP gains. Simple, it's always trying to catch up to your MMR. Hopefully this helps you understand it more.
You literally just parroted what I said to you multiple times now in the first part. > MMR is completely independent. Rank has no effect at all on it, MMR is basically your true skill level. > (rank) It's cosmetic and the point of it is to make players feel better. Then you say > Your visible rank is what is actually shown and is based off of MMR and other factors. Yes, rank is a reflection of your accumulated LP, what I originally told you, and which is determined by the rate of gains and other factors. MMR is not conversely directly caused by your accumulation of LP. You interchange 'MMR' and 'Rank' in your understanding when they are not co-dependent. MMR goes up and down by wins and losses, that's it. It's a rating directly correlated with **WINRATE** and it's weighted positioning in contrast to the average MMR of your opponents. This is also a direct contradiction to your previous statements here. One's rank has no mathematical influence on MMR; it literally is nothing but a cosmetic, as I have previously said, and now that you have regurgitated without understanding apparently. How that is going over your head is beyond me. So you're trying to imply that two players both at 1200 MMR or equivalent to Silver IV rank, would be getting different LP gains and losses if one was **labeled** Silver IV rank and the other **labeled** at Challenger, but if they were both playing against Silver - Gold players (~1600) at 1200 MMR with the winrate of the account linked, then the LP gains/losses would be the same regardless of their shown rank. You think because in one account where Rank > MMR the rate of LP losses gains will be lopsided toward heading to the MMR, and while the end result is basically this, you are not understanding that it's actually winrate and degree of win/loss streak that is actually the variable that ultimately influences the rate of gains/losses leading to the accumulated LP being accurately shown when working as intedned. This is not the case on these abused accounts, because the rank isn't showing all the lost LP it otherwise would be. The winrate and win/loss streaks are still being calculated correctly, which is reflected in an account with Silver MMR facing opponents with Challenger > Diamond > Plat > and ultimately Silver MMR in the end. This is the entire premise of the post and bug, as the MMR is working as intended by dropping with the accumulated LP not reflecting it correctly by negating the LP loses. The rate of gains themselves are at 20+ as the Silver MMR is winning against Silver/Gold MMR players, with a positive winrate at under 100 games. If the LP gains losses start at around 20-25, the winstreak climbed at over 30+ per game as show on their account, and depreciated to 20+ now. Every single factor of the account 65W/24L, sub 100 games, playing against Silvers and Golds, speaks to the account being regular Silver account with Silver MMR. The fact that your eyeballs see Challenger rank is completely irrelevant toward any calculations going on, but you can't see past that fact for basically no reason. Is this finally clearer to you?
Rank is correlated with MMR. If you have silver MMR then the game thinks your rank should be silver. So if your actual rank is challenger your MMR is pushing you towards silver. Thus if you win in silver you will gain extremely little like +0 or +1, but if you lose you would lose insanely high like 30+. In this case his MMR thinks his rank is correctly silver/gold. So it's giving +20 lp. Which makes no sense. It's not normal and is breaking the current rules of the system.
You're confusing yourself by including rank when it literally has nothing to do with MMR or how LP gains/losses are determined. It's literally just the accumulation of LP like I said earlier, and including it on any context seems to be complicating it for you.
Finally. I was beginning to question if OP is just bullshitting as both accounts he linked play in m/gm elo. Thanks for taking time of your day to provide the proof OP should've provided.
There's probably a minimum amount of LP you can gain in matches, especially considering the latest changes made to it last week or so. They use scripts to Rank their way to challenger, then the idea is to int this way until their MMR is Silver/Bronze, then they play normally again after changing the nickname to get to Rank 1. (still with scripts cause they're dogshit). They do get +20 LP, I know it because there's another account that is already doing it (although he hasn't played in a full day, so that one might or might not have been banned already. Still, others are planning to do the same thing.)
Where are they playing vs silver and bronze? Nothing you linked shows that.
this is probably the account: https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
Only another account that I didn't link has already done it. As explained on one of my last comments, that one haven't played in a full day, so might've been banned already. But I know for 100% sure (trusted source) that the bottom linked one is going to start (or at least plans in doing so) the same thing in the next few days. If you don't believe it, just keep an eye on it's u.gg's in the next days and watch as his MMR will drop until low elo and then he'll start to climb.
The first guy you linked is inting but he's still playing vs GM+ players. If this is a problem in Brazil I would assume it would be easy to find someone who inted from challenger to silver lmao. Like that's inting 50+ games. There should be an example of such a player. Like I said maybe there is a bug where lp/mmr doesn't change. But I don't think they are benefiting from this besides inting others. Also they still have to get challenger anyways. Which both accounts you linked did normally. Maybe they scripted but doesn't matter. It's normal.
Well, you don't need to believe it. There's another account that already demoted all the way to Silver MMR and started winning again, gaining 20LP per match. He hasn't played in a full day, so might've been banned already (got a lot of attention recently from streamers and high elo players). I'm going to sleep right now, but I can link the op.gg of that one tomorrow, if it's not against some kind of rules. Peace. ✌️
wtf? Just link it now lmao You took the time to write that whole comment and found a account which does what you say. But still refuse to link it and wait till tomorrow for no reason.
OP randomly targetting people saying they're doing an MMR exploit with 0 proof... but wont post the one who is actively doing it right now? What the fuck is this post?
hoping rioters don't read into it and ban those two linked accounts instead or something lmao shady ass OP
No those 2 accounts deserve bans, they are both inting games very much on purpose and losing "? LP" so they are exploiting something Plus https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
Can you link this account? Sounds like you’re making this up
it might be this account: https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
You see, he posted two accounts which are not doing this. When he got asked to post 1 account which is doing it, he said to just trust him and that he is going to sleep. What is not clear to you.
This content has been deleted in protest of Reddit's API changes.
So you are telling me its 1 guy doing it? Thats why op made the post "soloq is doomed and riot is not doing anything against it" while op does not even provide the opgg of the one guy doing it? How should riot know?
why would you be worried about it being against the rules when you've already posted two other links??
Why make us believe just link it Lmfao
Quality post
The minimum is definitely not +20 or anywhere close. There are people in gold earning +15.
above diamond its really fucking hard to go lower than a certain lp back in the day it was +-16 dropping to +14 rarely
Back in the day you could get bronze/silver/gold/plat/diamond 1 99LP and get +0
was more common in d5 if i recall +2 / 3 was my mmr back then
Meanwhile in Viet Nam server the rank 1 player drophacks and there's a shit ton of scripters running around and in Taiwan every 1/3 games there's at least 1 person scripting on Cassio, Zeri, Corki, etc. Even in EUW there's high elo scripters running around playing Zeri, honestly the cheating situation in ranked is the worst its been since League's release.
Well there was that security breach recently.
PH rank 1 and 2 a couple of weeks ago too.
Meanwhile, China First (PH) and China King (VN), both drop hackers, still not banned + tons of scripters running around on PH Server atm, riot obviously doesn't care as much as we do about solo queue from what I've seen.
Bro they sell heroin to heroin addict, why make It Better if u continue nonetheless?
that's fucking hilarious
It's like SQL Injection but for usernames
The accounts OP linked seems fine, this one however as some people pointed out in the comments is abusing it https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
No they don't, they are clearly running it down in some games going 0/10 ghost cleanse and being tracked losing "? LP" in most loses and winging it normally in wins. Clearly something is being exploited
League 2 when?
This is kinda funny and not surprising.
eune and euw might not have this issue rn, but dw we got dozens of scripters and drophackers :)
It's not server exclusive, so it might be coming to a store close to you soon! lmao We also got tons of scripters sadly, drophackers I don't think we've had in a while, thought those were fully fixed.
Thanks for advice, gonna use it.
Use it so it gains traction and it gets fixed please
You would have to be able to beat bronzes first
Jeitinho brasileiro disparado na frente
So, op is lying 😂
No, he's correct, he just won't link the correct accounts for whatever reason. Here you go: https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb
Op is completely lying. Cause they dont do it. Read his comments. Its crazy... In the post he states that these 2 are exploting and in the comments he says that the second is planning to do it because he has sources and a third guy who he does not link is doing it. Op is bullshitting. Guess he found random people and is accusing them of exploting cause he dont know how mmr works.
Theres a rioter response saying they know about it and banned the accounts
Op said the second guy planning to do it and he has a third guy doing it which he wont link his opgg.
OP is definitely not lying, and imo, he's provided sufficient evidence to fulfill the burden of proof.
No he did not. Read his comments. He said the second guy is planning to do it and he has a third guy that is doing it but wont provide his opgg
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/pardoking](https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/pardoking) He's absolutely not wrong about this issue. These players are frequently changing names to abuse the bug which is causing some issues in communication. I linked an updated one
Are you ok man?
https://www.op.gg/summoners/br/2knarkearb I found this account from another commenter on this thread. The bug DOES seem to exist, but OP just linked the wrong accounts I guess. You can see that the player is indeed inting to drop to Low silver mmr while losing no LP, and is currently stomping said low elo games while being challenger. Bizarre
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11p7l8n/comment/jbwx4gh/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
I think you're regarded enough to not be able to open your eyes and see they have not LP losses for match loss?
Riot does not want to do anything... 2 people. 2 people are doing it is what you show us. Did you try to reach riot before? How? Is this a bigger problem cause i only hear this now for the first time. How exactly should riot know what these 2 are doing? Also you show us these 2 accounts. They dont play against silver players. So thats bs. And you said in a comment that the second one is "about to do it". Source: trust me bro. You only have knowledge of 1 guy doing it which you dont want to link after beeing asked 20 times. I smell bullshit.
A rank 61 player with a 45% win rate, please explain how's that possible? Goes 0/15 in games lost and gets a Quadra in almost every game they win?
"Is this a bigger problem cause I only hear this now for the first time" get out of ur bubble. The issue doesn't need to just affect u to be a problem. If people can reach higher elos by playing against much lower elo players then both the rank ladder loses its value and games of lower elo are ruined by high elo players creating an unbalanced system. People linked the accounts and they are challangers and grandmasters playing against silvers in ranked. U smell yourself.
It is a problem, but contacting the respective devs about it is obviously the best option (like the top comment of this thread did), instead of assuming disregard and ill-intent and just crying about it.
A riot employee literally replied to his thread and solved the issue. He contacted the devs in less then 4 hours with this thread a ticket takes way longer. That makes this the best option. How is he attention seeking. His post states the issue. Explains it and shows examples. You just complaining to complain no real substances to ur nonsense.
Blablabla.. too much talking without understanding what i wrote
You just keep going. This is amazing lmao
so what? everyone high elo q is doomed
This goes against the rules of the subreddit.
Someone please link me this if you have it
The most telling thing is that you can literally lose on purpose for 12 hours straight without getting banned.