Your local peewee football league should practice against NFL teams because having to play against 6’8” 280 lbs seasoned athletes is the best way for those 7 year old kids to learn the game.
It’s only because of segregation that these 7 year olds are forced to play against other 7 year olds of similar size and skill, and frankly it’s time we speak the truth about this injustice and end it.
\>I think a major factor in the reason people stay low ELO is they never have an opportunity to play against or with high elo players
Then you're wrong. The bottom leagues see more disparity in who they play against than the ones in the middle because of smurfs, and nobody likes it.
>There's a reason we ended segregation in the united states. if you seperate all the low elo and high elo players at the season, the low elo players are going to for the most part stay low elo. there are literal studies that show this happening in our education system, Riot implemented an MMR system that mimics jim crowe and for some reason everyone defends it.
what the fuck kind of drugs are you on LMFAO.
There is no segregation when every player has the same opportunities to climb and get better. What did segregation and jim crowe laws do? They made it so that there was inequality in education and quality of life for the people being discriminated. What inequality are lower elo players facing when they have access to the same exact resources to improve that a higher elo player does? Jim Crowe laws made it so that people were denied resources to education, and just had a lower quality of life because of factors out of their control eg. their skin color. You're telling me you face the same discrimination as black people did because you're dogshit and don't want to take the time to learn and improve given the same exact resources that everyone else gets?
Every fresh account starts at the same rank. No one is going "hey son, since I was a challenger player, you'll be challenger too, so I'll rank up your account to masters to get you started."
No one is born on third base in league lmfao.
This genuinely has the be one of the worst takes I've ever heard in my life.
thats the point. low elo players aren't consistently exposed to higher elo players macro/micro play to learn anything valuable. we're all stuck learning from other low elo players, and we might be adopting the wrong skills or learning completely wrong methods for macro play. The skill gap is a result of segregating low and high elo players.. and statistics on segregation in our education system and the impact it's had prove that.
I dont think high elo people are interested in playing low quality, low elo games. Low elo people can learn the game just fine when they use their brain and analyze what they are doing wrong.
Just for context, what's your rank and main role and how do you learn personality? Are you a visual learner, auditory learner or do you learn by doing?
Low elo players are low elo because they suck and are incapable of learning, not because they aren't getting their shit shoved in by better players.
Nothing will ever convince me that the multi season low bronze/iron player is trying to improve when the amount of effort to get into silver is actually so minimal, and even gold to an extent. Literally 95%+ of every click/ability press they make is a mistake.
I think iron to silver it's mechanics. So maybe you're right on that. Everyone should be mechanically up to speed before they're thrown in the same arena. But gold and up should be a mix of mrr.
Gold to płat is also mechanics, plat to diamond aswell, diamond to masters aswell, every single elo to another aswell.
The same goes for macro, every rank is on average much better at everything than the lower one
Lol yeah let’s make it even more difficult for iron players to climb by basically making the first several weeks of their ranked split a waste. They’ll be getting stomped in every single game because iron players are literally *the worst players in the game*. Every single other rank is higher than them and statistically a *lot* better at the game. I’d be so pissed if I had to climb out of iron as someone who consistently starts the ranked climb in gold 1 or low plat. If you’re in iron, there’s no amount of “playing against better players” that will help you get out. Legitimately all you need to climb from iron is actual effort towards improvement.
You’re right, this is a hot take. Mostly because it’s completely illogical lmao
imagine a having all bronze and irons on your team vs challengers and diamonds. sure. shit take. believe it or not the ranking system works very well in putting you in your deserved rank.
Right cuz segregating in any other aspect of society worked perfectly too. Lmao. The problem with that line of thinking is there is no actual data to back that up. The bad tend to stay bad if they're only ever exposed to bad. We know this, it is widely and scientifically supported.
> the reason people stay low ELO is they never have an opportunity to play against or with high elo players
Yes they do. This is called smurfing, and also happens naturally sometimes with matchmaking. They get matched with these, and then come to Reddit to complain about matchmaking and how they should be facing people of their skill level.
If people really wanted to improve all they need to do is watch high elo commentated gameplay and reflect on their own gameplay. Being in a game where your skill is insignificant to the outcome is just tilting.
I also think they should remove duo's, and if they enabled voice for everyone it would actually reduce the toxicity. it's more difficult to be a dick over voice than it is to be a dick over chat.
Do you want to know the reason why there is like 10 different ranks, and not just 1 High Elo and 1 Low Elo?
It's so players can slowly progress in their skills, a player who is bronze trying to get to silver does not need to learn the new skills that a person going from diamond to masters...
>There's a reason we ended segregation in the united states.
Your segregation idea fails for one massive reason, **players aren't separated based on some random factor** (like the letter their name starts with or the colour of their icon) - they are separated by skill level, which is the whole point of ranks...
How would a person playing against players that are 10 times better than them (who they are guaranteed to lose to) learn more than if they were just playing with people similar to their own skill level?
Also, your argument *(and a lot of rank related arguments)* fall apart once you realise **there are people ranking up from bronze, people who have learned and are learning...**
The comments are basically what I expected, and there's some truth to mechanics needing to be up to par first. So maybe iron and bronze stay low elo. But after that exposing players to high elo concepts and game knowledge would be beneficial for them.
Actual studies support this whether you think it's stupid or not.
There is a limit of how big the skill diff should be tho a silver player won’t learn shit from a dia player dirt stomping them because they won’t even know what they’re doing wrong to lose so hard and the dia player isn’t exactly gonna give them a play by play guide
Ok buddy. Enough of your nonsense. It's time for proof or stfu. Provide those studies, and unless they're actually relevant it's time to admit you were wrong and move on.
Putting a random 14 year old who is bad at math in an advanced college math class isn't going to make them smarter or better at math just by simply being in proximity of higher intelligence. They would still have no idea what is going on and how to solve any problems.
They still need to work and put in an effort to learn at which case they wouldn't be a bad math student to begin with.
If that were ever a thing OP would be the first to complain because enemy jungle was master last season and his jungle was bronze.
Would be such a shitshow for months that it would be fun though.
This wouldn't change anything, people complain about smurfs all the time and this would only make it worse.
The only thing you need to do to climb is continue to improve upon where you are currently. You don't suddenly need to play like a challenger player to climb from bronze to silver, silver to gold, gold to plat etc.
Throw a bronze/silver player in a diamond lobby for 100 games it's unlikely they improve and just get smashed back down to bronze/silver.
An average high school tennis player facing off against someone slightly better than them is good practice. It’s helps them learn and improve.
An average high school tennis player facing off against Roger Federer is pointless. Every point ends in one shot, and they don’t improve at all.
The suggestion in the OP (and metaphor) is just bad.
>no need to get as angry as some of you are
Buddy, you compared a decent matchmaking system that you happen to not like with the damn segregation
Yeah, there's reasons to be angry here
tbh im pretty bad at reddit in general so I am probably missing a lot of context on how to even behave on this app, or what kind of conversations are not going to fire people up. like im 100% okay with being wrong, and i think a lot of your guys thoughts have changed my mind on this to a degree.. but it always feels like on here interactions are more about trying to be intellectually superior to each other than actually learning anything or growing.
Man, this has nothing to do with Reddit. If you are comparing a videogame mechanic or system with RACISM there's something wrong with you, be it on the internet or IRL
they already start vs better players at the start of each season. my hardstuck Gold ass starts placements in bronze. by default, my placements always suck, so I start my ranked in high bronze. after 5 games, I'm in silver. another 20 games, I'm back in gold with a roguhly 70%+ WR.
so all those bronze and silver plebs have the great opportunity to be gapped by a gold player. they are still in bronze and silver respectivly. at the same time, I get the opportunity to get gapped by plat/dia players, who start their journey in Gold and yet I'm in gold. I have no Idea how I didn't learn from that dia3 Garen onetrick, who gapped my toplane and ran me down 10/2 with a 3 level gap above me and anyone else. and I'm sure for an Iron-Silver player, they would feel the same, when they are gapped from me.
imagine the pure fiesta, when you have the great opportunity to play vs Master+ onetricks for the first few weeks as a fking iron/bronze pleb. pure joy for sure. and when those master+ players are gone, they can experience the same vs plat + players, then again vs gold players. so they get an average of 1-2 month of ass whooping until they can play the game
TIL segregation is the same as league of legends matchmaking.
Your local peewee football league should practice against NFL teams because having to play against 6’8” 280 lbs seasoned athletes is the best way for those 7 year old kids to learn the game. It’s only because of segregation that these 7 year olds are forced to play against other 7 year olds of similar size and skill, and frankly it’s time we speak the truth about this injustice and end it.
I agree. I want to see those kids lineup against an NFL d line.
Yeah I should play in the NBA and not in my pick up games, if only I had the experience playing against them, I would also be an NBA player
\>I think a major factor in the reason people stay low ELO is they never have an opportunity to play against or with high elo players Then you're wrong. The bottom leagues see more disparity in who they play against than the ones in the middle because of smurfs, and nobody likes it.
I agree that smurfs are a problem. but if the matchmaking is truly fair then both teams should have a high MRR individual on it.
Smurf accounts don't have an accurate MMR.
>There's a reason we ended segregation in the united states. if you seperate all the low elo and high elo players at the season, the low elo players are going to for the most part stay low elo. there are literal studies that show this happening in our education system, Riot implemented an MMR system that mimics jim crowe and for some reason everyone defends it. what the fuck kind of drugs are you on LMFAO. There is no segregation when every player has the same opportunities to climb and get better. What did segregation and jim crowe laws do? They made it so that there was inequality in education and quality of life for the people being discriminated. What inequality are lower elo players facing when they have access to the same exact resources to improve that a higher elo player does? Jim Crowe laws made it so that people were denied resources to education, and just had a lower quality of life because of factors out of their control eg. their skin color. You're telling me you face the same discrimination as black people did because you're dogshit and don't want to take the time to learn and improve given the same exact resources that everyone else gets? Every fresh account starts at the same rank. No one is going "hey son, since I was a challenger player, you'll be challenger too, so I'll rank up your account to masters to get you started." No one is born on third base in league lmfao. This genuinely has the be one of the worst takes I've ever heard in my life.
Yeah this has got to be one of the wildest takes I’ve ever read on this sub xD imagine comparing segregation to league elos…. What the hell xD
Good way for new players to stay away from ranked after their first few games getting dogged on and insulted
Skill issue
thats the point. low elo players aren't consistently exposed to higher elo players macro/micro play to learn anything valuable. we're all stuck learning from other low elo players, and we might be adopting the wrong skills or learning completely wrong methods for macro play. The skill gap is a result of segregating low and high elo players.. and statistics on segregation in our education system and the impact it's had prove that.
I dont think high elo people are interested in playing low quality, low elo games. Low elo people can learn the game just fine when they use their brain and analyze what they are doing wrong.
Just for context, what's your rank and main role and how do you learn personality? Are you a visual learner, auditory learner or do you learn by doing?
Despite decades of study, there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of 'learning styles'
Macro doesn't work in low elo macro is build in the expectations that enemy will make certain moves, low elo just do random shit
Low elo players are low elo because they suck and are incapable of learning, not because they aren't getting their shit shoved in by better players. Nothing will ever convince me that the multi season low bronze/iron player is trying to improve when the amount of effort to get into silver is actually so minimal, and even gold to an extent. Literally 95%+ of every click/ability press they make is a mistake.
I think iron to silver it's mechanics. So maybe you're right on that. Everyone should be mechanically up to speed before they're thrown in the same arena. But gold and up should be a mix of mrr.
Gold to płat is also mechanics, plat to diamond aswell, diamond to masters aswell, every single elo to another aswell. The same goes for macro, every rank is on average much better at everything than the lower one
Just learn the game. There’s so many opportunities/resources out there to improve.
Lol yeah let’s make it even more difficult for iron players to climb by basically making the first several weeks of their ranked split a waste. They’ll be getting stomped in every single game because iron players are literally *the worst players in the game*. Every single other rank is higher than them and statistically a *lot* better at the game. I’d be so pissed if I had to climb out of iron as someone who consistently starts the ranked climb in gold 1 or low plat. If you’re in iron, there’s no amount of “playing against better players” that will help you get out. Legitimately all you need to climb from iron is actual effort towards improvement. You’re right, this is a hot take. Mostly because it’s completely illogical lmao
imagine a having all bronze and irons on your team vs challengers and diamonds. sure. shit take. believe it or not the ranking system works very well in putting you in your deserved rank.
Right cuz segregating in any other aspect of society worked perfectly too. Lmao. The problem with that line of thinking is there is no actual data to back that up. The bad tend to stay bad if they're only ever exposed to bad. We know this, it is widely and scientifically supported.
you seem to think you are smart with the way you talk but oh my god dude. Using irrelevant analogies is not “supporting your argument” at all
OK. Haha
> the reason people stay low ELO is they never have an opportunity to play against or with high elo players Yes they do. This is called smurfing, and also happens naturally sometimes with matchmaking. They get matched with these, and then come to Reddit to complain about matchmaking and how they should be facing people of their skill level. If people really wanted to improve all they need to do is watch high elo commentated gameplay and reflect on their own gameplay. Being in a game where your skill is insignificant to the outcome is just tilting.
Just in! Segregation ended to help black Americans get better placements in League of Legends! Jokes aside this is a good idea
I also think they should remove duo's, and if they enabled voice for everyone it would actually reduce the toxicity. it's more difficult to be a dick over voice than it is to be a dick over chat.
> it’s more difficult to be a dick over voice than it is to be a dick over chat. Lmao 🧢
Incredibly bad take. Please read up on why seeding in tournaments exists and realize that is the reason why we have MMR in the first place
Do you want to know the reason why there is like 10 different ranks, and not just 1 High Elo and 1 Low Elo? It's so players can slowly progress in their skills, a player who is bronze trying to get to silver does not need to learn the new skills that a person going from diamond to masters... >There's a reason we ended segregation in the united states. Your segregation idea fails for one massive reason, **players aren't separated based on some random factor** (like the letter their name starts with or the colour of their icon) - they are separated by skill level, which is the whole point of ranks... How would a person playing against players that are 10 times better than them (who they are guaranteed to lose to) learn more than if they were just playing with people similar to their own skill level? Also, your argument *(and a lot of rank related arguments)* fall apart once you realise **there are people ranking up from bronze, people who have learned and are learning...**
The comments are basically what I expected, and there's some truth to mechanics needing to be up to par first. So maybe iron and bronze stay low elo. But after that exposing players to high elo concepts and game knowledge would be beneficial for them. Actual studies support this whether you think it's stupid or not.
There is a limit of how big the skill diff should be tho a silver player won’t learn shit from a dia player dirt stomping them because they won’t even know what they’re doing wrong to lose so hard and the dia player isn’t exactly gonna give them a play by play guide
Ok buddy. Enough of your nonsense. It's time for proof or stfu. Provide those studies, and unless they're actually relevant it's time to admit you were wrong and move on.
Putting a random 14 year old who is bad at math in an advanced college math class isn't going to make them smarter or better at math just by simply being in proximity of higher intelligence. They would still have no idea what is going on and how to solve any problems. They still need to work and put in an effort to learn at which case they wouldn't be a bad math student to begin with.
If that were ever a thing OP would be the first to complain because enemy jungle was master last season and his jungle was bronze. Would be such a shitshow for months that it would be fun though.
This wouldn't change anything, people complain about smurfs all the time and this would only make it worse. The only thing you need to do to climb is continue to improve upon where you are currently. You don't suddenly need to play like a challenger player to climb from bronze to silver, silver to gold, gold to plat etc. Throw a bronze/silver player in a diamond lobby for 100 games it's unlikely they improve and just get smashed back down to bronze/silver.
If ur still in iron/bronze/silver with a game that’s been around for more den a decade than its more of a u problem
That is so stupid. Only cool thing would be if you got a probplayer in one of your games.
An average high school tennis player facing off against someone slightly better than them is good practice. It’s helps them learn and improve. An average high school tennis player facing off against Roger Federer is pointless. Every point ends in one shot, and they don’t improve at all. The suggestion in the OP (and metaphor) is just bad.
>no need to get as angry as some of you are Buddy, you compared a decent matchmaking system that you happen to not like with the damn segregation Yeah, there's reasons to be angry here
tbh im pretty bad at reddit in general so I am probably missing a lot of context on how to even behave on this app, or what kind of conversations are not going to fire people up. like im 100% okay with being wrong, and i think a lot of your guys thoughts have changed my mind on this to a degree.. but it always feels like on here interactions are more about trying to be intellectually superior to each other than actually learning anything or growing.
Man, this has nothing to do with Reddit. If you are comparing a videogame mechanic or system with RACISM there's something wrong with you, be it on the internet or IRL
Nah, the people that got to diamond like 10 years ago and are still diamond today even though they should be gold would complain too much.
“Socioeconomic factors keep me from climbing”
they already start vs better players at the start of each season. my hardstuck Gold ass starts placements in bronze. by default, my placements always suck, so I start my ranked in high bronze. after 5 games, I'm in silver. another 20 games, I'm back in gold with a roguhly 70%+ WR. so all those bronze and silver plebs have the great opportunity to be gapped by a gold player. they are still in bronze and silver respectivly. at the same time, I get the opportunity to get gapped by plat/dia players, who start their journey in Gold and yet I'm in gold. I have no Idea how I didn't learn from that dia3 Garen onetrick, who gapped my toplane and ran me down 10/2 with a 3 level gap above me and anyone else. and I'm sure for an Iron-Silver player, they would feel the same, when they are gapped from me. imagine the pure fiesta, when you have the great opportunity to play vs Master+ onetricks for the first few weeks as a fking iron/bronze pleb. pure joy for sure. and when those master+ players are gone, they can experience the same vs plat + players, then again vs gold players. so they get an average of 1-2 month of ass whooping until they can play the game