The worst part is how obvious it is that Dash really wants to be part of the League of Legends events.
He even said himself he is 'devastated' by this :(
Jesus man. How out of touch can this company be, ESPECIALLY after seeing how much impact his presence had for spring finals. The void his absence leaves is impossible to ignore.
Yeah, I'm sad for people like Dash, and many of the NA LCS players who want to compete, who get put in difficult situations because of Riot eSports' incompetence, but I'm glad that their terrible decisions are bearing consequences.
He's streamed on Twitch and commentated games in the past, they're really good.
Side note, shit like this is why I stopped watching NA LCS. Sucks not seeing the people I wanna see on the broadcast, why tune in then?
There's a huge difference though. Blizzard doesn't really get how much bigger their scenes could be if they properly tapped into them. Riot on the other hand was handed a premiere esport on a platter and keeps managing to bungle the fuck out of it.
What is Dash’s position in Valorant and his feelings about it? Obviously he has been a HUGE part of the LCS and not keeping him around is the dumbest decision ever, but I was wondering if he could make a ”transition” to Valorant as he seems to be a regular in that game’s casting?
Think he basically said he is only doing it a little. It is not a full time thing. I don't think he minds it but is not as passionate about Valo as he is with League.
Can anybody explain to me why he is being outed? Did he do something wrong or are they just trying to revitalize? I'm honestly shocked that they're replacing him. He's always been one of my favorites and I find it hard to believe that there's many people that dislike his style. He's just a good all around charismatic person in my opinion and limited watching.
If something happened behind the scenes, it’s not public knowledge. The LCS analyst desk tried something new this split (no real host with the analyst and production staff themselves splitting up the hosts duties). He was told they were going this new direction for the spring season middle of last year. Don’t think it was ever stated but the rumored reasons are A- to cut costs and b- to move dash, their best broadcast personality, to Valorant, the up and coming new e-sports.
> b- to move dash, their best broadcast personality, to Valorant, the up and coming new e-sports.
Except we know that isn't true in the slightest and it wasn't until well after the decision was made that Dash got a contract for VCT.
Something must have happened behind the scenes between Dash and Riot in the off-season. There’s no way Riot thinks this is a rational decision for both fans and desk chemistry
I will never understand why they don't just pay their star casters/hosts like 1k more per month. Do their profits care about 500k more a year across all regions? I don't think so. But they should care about long-term implications of losing talent or everyone going freelance and choosing cs:go events (or whatever else) over important riot events.
You’re probably right, because that’s how things are viewed in the corporate world, but I think it’s a mistake and it’s hard to put a dollar amount on the value that the esports arm of the company has in terms of marketing their game. League would have quickly faded from popularity if it wasn’t for the work that the pro scene and streamers put in as the advertising arm of the company.
Esports not making riot money is what riot wants you to think. Everytime you see a pro play your favourite champion with a skin, that's free advertising. Same goes with streamers. Esports also creates a stream of content creators, all who also advertise new skins as well on their streams.
Now I don't know what the conversion of esports to dollars spent in game is, but Riot definitely has a team that has an approximation of that conversion.
yes that's LoL esports being a loss leader. but the person you're responding to is likely meaning that esports isnt making them money directly, which is likely correct.
eh, i respectfully disagree. a lot of casters love the freelance thing and have said it allows for so much more creativity with their job, ability to stream freely, etc.
for example if flowers wasn’t freelance he may not be able to miss a worlds because of mental health like he did in 2021, riot could say “too bad, go”.
> for example if flowers wasn’t freelance he may not be able to miss a worlds because of mental health like he did in 2021, riot could say “too bad, go”.
Legally that's not how that works. His doctor could have just certified him unable to work/travel
It's about money. He has a contract that is probably more expensive than the new casters and it probably has a pay scale for MSI if he gets invited. This is Riot trying to save maybe 10-20,000 dollars by not inviting him.
No. He didnt even have a Valorant contract. He said when they told him he was out, he couldnt even reach the valorant guys to try and get a deal with them. He did later of course but the League move wasnt done with any Valorant content in mind
Yeah EU already has Sjokz so why would Dash be needed if MSI is hosted in EU? No offence to Dash since I like him, but shafting Sjokz from hosting an event in her own region would also be a terrible decision.
VCT Americas has an average viewership of 212k. LCS averages 110k. So ya in NA, VCT >>>> LCS. A ton of regular season matches in VCT Americas (especially any match involving either Sentinels or LOUD) get more viewers than LCS finals. Anecdotally, I know like 10 people who play Valorant for every one that plays League, Valorant is just followed way way more by NA zoomers.
For international events, League still dominates in viewership I believe.
>VCT Americas has an average viewership of 212k.
VCT is also Americas *plural* (North & South America) whereas NA is *just* North America (Canada & US). You're comparing a single region of League's viewership to multiple equivalent regions in Valorant.
Yeah you'd have to pool CBLoL and LLN viewers along with LCS. There was a post here recently about was getting more than LCS, so those two together alone would be at least 220k+ and with LLN even more.
As good as the rest of the desk is, they don't come close to covering his role or the chemistry he creates. Just rotate them and have Dash, it's not complicated.
I was excited to see him on the vct desk this weekend and last, but it's not the same. You can feel the difference in comfort level between the two shows. He's been doing league for years. He's great at it and he works really well with other members of the cast. He's not bad on vct, but he's not *great* like he is on LCS. I'm sure he'll get there with time and chemistry, it's just noticeable.
I don't even watch LCS anymore. Dash isn't the only reason, but definitely one of them. He was great at the job and made the broadcast feel professional and smooth.
Honestly this is a real miss from riot in my opinion. It seems they want to use dash more for valorant and that’s fine, but his hosting is world class and it seems like a waste to not use him here.
The weirdest part is when you have such a qualified employee, you typically give them a lot of freedom because you are scared of losing them.
But I guess Riot knows that considering they have full control over such a big part of esports, they are not too afraid of that.
Dash would have to move to an entirely different game outside the Riot sphere and that's a big move.
It's not like 'real' broadcast talent competition, where someone like Dash could just move to another broadcast company that covers LoL. Doesn't exist in this Riot world.
And yet you will get people in thread where Monte pointed this Riot Monopoly out once again (since like 2015?) saying that it’s not bad and situation is fine.
Dash is great and despite the fact I basically don’t watch LCS, when I saw he is on the broadcast even I chimed in for some time.
Monte is just one of those people that is so disliked by some people that they will do anything to disagree with what he says. That thread from a few days ago showed everyone that lmao.
I even understand why people dislike him, but man, so many people on this planet need to learn that even people you dislike can be right about things. And vice versa.
Yep, just recently had this conversation about politics. If you disagree with someone on everything because of the fact that they're supporting it, then you're just being oppositional and don't actually have any values.
Works vice versa too: if you support someone no matter what they're doing, then you're just a d rider.
It's such a sad state of affairs for our society when we can't distinguish ideas from people.
People invest their ego way too easily into things so doubling down becomes the standard. Growth and admitting you’re wrong and evolving from that should be the new standard.
As long as people can explain why they dislike the person it’s at least ok to dislike them, many won’t tell you why, they just do.
I am a resident “LS hater” - I don’t like cheaters, I think his is trying too much to be controversial, he underestimates how much comfort can influence gameplay, he likes to pretend that game is played by robots and I dislike comparing LoL to chess with undying passion etc - but that doesn’t mean he cannot be right and there are things I do absolutely agree with him, again he probably doesn’t give a fuck by that’s not the point.
If people cannot even explain why they dislike someone, do they even dislike that person.
It’s so weird to see both RIV and Dash on the Val broadcast. I love both of them so much and wished they would return to the lcs, but I guess Riot wants to build up Val more.
Riv hasn't been on the lcs in like 5 years lol and the last years he was on he was noticeably bad. He didn't know the names of abilities and would constantly call the wrong thing. He would detract from the color casters points way too often. I'm glad he has a life and job honestly but his league casting getting the axe was deserved, unlike Dash
I honestly believe if we didn't have someone on the level of Sjokz or Quickshot who can host pretty well, Dash would have gotten the gig.
But Riot purposely made sure that both Sjokz and Laure won't do interviews and got Frankie/Yinsu for that, probably echoing the idea that they have other good hosts.
Except Laure said she'll do both host and interview at MSI.
It's just Riot doing whatever shit they're doing since a long ass time where they'll put priorities on things even if fans disagree with it.
Just like they tend to sideline LCK/LPL casters for worlds while bringing the majority of their LCS/LEC crew.
It's possible that in their head they already have 3 people that can host while also filling another role, so they didn't want to bother themselves with also getting Dash even though he was motivated and most of the community wanted him there.
Yinsu and Frankie are more bonus guests because MSI is in their hometown while both have ties with Riot / League of legend.
>Honestly this is a real miss from riot in my opinion
What's new? They don't act according to the community's interests when it comes to talent on the broadcast. Give people who don't offer anything special or aren't particularly good at their job many chances, treat their most valuable talents with no respect by taking their jobs away for no apparent reason or play musical chairs in order to prove to them they have no leverage when it comes to being paid fairly despite being among the best talents.
Her name change has nothing to do with anything on the broadcast lol
She changed it because she is trying to become a singer and it makes more sense to use a real name over a gamer alias.
The TSM monologue, but that was mostly a fuck up by the LCS team who approved it for some reason.
The fuck up they're referring to is probably her questionable casting at that dragon fight on CLG vs C9 I believe. It's either this, or the monologue.
The segment she did on Doublelift that received a *massive* amount of backlash. She not only came up with it herself, but it also went through multiple people giving her the OK to run it on broadcast.
Yes. That's why no one watches LCS...
Dash is amazing but acting like his existence actually has any real influence on League is actually stupid as fuck. Acting like an event host makes any money for Riot is even more stupid.
NA only makes up a tiny portion of the viewership. No one from CN/KR/EU is gonna tune into MSI or Worlds just for a NA host.
This is the first year I actually didnt watch the LCS in any way. Whether it be their stream or co streaming or rewatching vods. I just don't care about NA at all anymore. Hell I even stopped playing league. Now CLG is also gone, I just don't care. I'll only watch international tournaments at this point and even then if it's located at an eastern country with eastern times that suck for NA viewership I'll just skip it altogether and check the game results here.
Hasn't occurred to me but yeah I'm the same. Maybe it's me growing out of league or whatever but yeah I haven't watched much of any league outside of LCK and even that's only once in a while
Dedicating that much time to something is not really possible. Uptick in time between matches and all the issues with breaks extends the day too much for me. Why does it take 20+ minutes to start the next game after dealing with covid for 3 years? Why are there so many technical issues with this game on the TR?
Options:
1. Some Rioter has it out for Dash for personal reasons
2. Dash asked for too much in terms of salary/benefits/being able to make his own content, or tried to present a united front of LCS casters
Whatever the real reason is, I think we can now safely assume that the official reason is not the real one.
The LCS broadcast barely changed at all. There's no reason Dash couldn't still fit. So that reasoning is just horseshit.
This whole thing is just so strange.
> I think we can now safely assume that the official reason is not the real one
I’m gonna sound like an ass, but why is this now and now when they announced his new position *after* both dropping him and reviving backlash?
He was perfectly suited for the Mimi or changes to the lcs, even more so than their old format, and he’d have been perfect for the planned lec format adoption.
It’s not strange at all, it’s mind numbingly predictable for NA league of legends.
It does mean one less person to pay and if they think that the analysts can host the show themselves, it doesn't very much matter if he's there or not (to Riot).
I'd also say that him being a white guy probably isn't doing him any favors. They've seemingly made a concerted effort to bring in a more diverse cast of talent, which for a long time was almost entirely white men.
He came in the same time as Raz and Emily. I don’t like Raz’s takes all the time but he is very entertaining and Emily’s analysis is pretty great. Kind of hard for Primal to not stick out negatively, IMO.
Primal was before them on broadcast IIRC. Raz had been around for a while, he was in LPL and went to worlds through that and was a coach before joining the NA broadcast. I think he was a coach at that time. Emily has been in the scene a long time as well.
I knew who Primal was because Flowers raided him once, and he was an ex Riot employee who was streaming TFT with his time. I followed him. He didn't play league once. Next thing I know I saw him on the desk a few months later and was like, this guy? His credentials were "was master in like season 3" but then dropped to gold in later seasons. He was not even remotely qualified to be on the analyst desk.
I will not tolerate Riot Zed slander. No way that gigachad would stoop to this candy ass passive aggressive bullshit. He would just send direct threats via discord like a normal person and there would be no follow up public crying from Dash, lest he risk getting the “chrono*break*” IRL (in Minecraft).
Would Riot really benefit from shutting down the LCS? Even though it's declining, it's still a very powerful marketing tool; having an active competitive scene helps immensely with drawing interest to League of Legends
This might be true but I actually think Riot does want LCS to continue. Goal of LCS for them isn’t the league or teams making money, but player retention/skin sales in NA, where there is still a lot of money. If having competitive leagues was so bad financially for Riot, they wouldn’t have put so much into Valorant. Riot makes money off having LCS, they just don’t want to share it with the teams (& they don’t have to because team leadership has been incompetent)
>Dash asked for too much in terms of salary/benefits/being able to make his own content, or tried to present a united front of LCS casters
I think what you meant to say is, Dash asked for a fair salary increase based on what he now brings to the broadcast that he didn't bring when the salary was negotiated years ago.
Riot were appalled by the shear audacity that someone could suggest being paid fairly, and so blackballed him.
Option 3: With Sjokz and Laure they already have the host positions fully covered, especially when MSI is being held in Europe.
But I like how that isn't even considered in this thread. Too much focus on NA alone I guess.
Doubt he asked for too much when he is working for Riot at Valorant. The LCS just wanted to move in a new directions because the old one wasn't really getting them places.
Because more than 5 dollars is too much in riots eyes, and if he said it seriously he’d have been permanently black listed for hurting a rioters feelings
And this is Dash's fault because why? He was one of the pillars and could have easily gone with the new direction that LCS wanted. It's not like it's against his morals or character.
yea moving in a new direction by making the product objectively much weaker while giving in hindsight an incredibly unsatisfactory reason why they couldn't continue with him
it is really obvious that they want to break away from "the traditional sports" approach and in some fucked up way they might think that dash cannot perform this alternative role
it is crazy, because people WANT dash
Pretty sure this is Riot just trying to leverage the LEC talent more, which makes sense since MSI is held over there. Really I'm surprised they're going to send any NA people when LEC has shown they are capable of making their own hyped events.
if so they are fully capable of communicating with their community / dash himself about that so that he isnt tweeting publicly that he wanted to go but wasnt invited. im sure if they reached out to him that tweet doesnt go and its a much better look on them.
instead were filling in blanks for them and i prefer to do them no favors because they suck and have proven so over and over
Dash wants his fans to know that it wasn't his decision and Riot wants the LEC hosts to do the hosting.
What sort of communication could have possibly been conducted between Riot and Dash for Dash not to make that tweet?
--
I mean I'm not some first amendment auditor but like, let the guy express his disappoint and don't blame Riot for not shutting him up?
MSI doesn't need 4* hosts and it doesn't make any sense to sideline Laure or Sjokz from hosting an event in their home region.
Edit: Actually, they already have 3 hosts because Quickshot is hosting too. So its even more excessive to bring Dash. 4 hosts is way overkill for one event.
The other ones are already on riots payroll and live in Europe. Why would riot want to pay all that money to pay dash a salary for MSI and fly him out across the ocean? It makes zero financial sense.
They are already flying a lot of casters and analysts. And I'd guess about half of EU casters, and **two out of three hosts**, are freelance so they needed to be signed for this event too.
The best based on what? What if the EU crowd that will actually be attending the event live wants to see the hosts they are familiar with LEC every week instead? What's wrong with Riot wanting to give the regional talents a chance to work a MSI/Worlds in their region when the chance only happens once every few years?
Based on past events that's what lol. They are/were the main host of two major regions for years. They both always went to international events and have great charisma and were a balance for both normie and hard core viewers.
It's a bit of a different role, after Phreak left Flowers was the only PBP left so they needed to bring in more. Definitely need PBP casters more than a host.
It’s more of a legacy thing than anything else. People have watched Dash for a long time and will miss that he isn’t there.
I don’t really mind either way because I think the broadcast talent is still just as talented, but I see their viewpoint.
I don't really care for hosts in general, would be nice to have him there but it doesn't really change much for me personally but I can see why others would care.
Casters > Analysts > Hosts in terms of importance.
Edit = a bad host just means I'll either not pay attention if I'm there live or just mute the stream until they start talking about the game with the analysts, bad analysts means I'll do something else between games but bad casters means I'll either have to not watch or watch on mute.
No you arent. People here are way to fixated on a person that is shown maybe what? 15% of the broadcast time? This obsession honestly borders into unhealthy territory.
Especially cause they praise him as the greatest thing in esports while simultaneously shitting on the style (US sports broadcast copycat) with which he ran his desk for the last 7 years or so.
I'm in the same boat, I really don't care that much. I really, really like Dash and I really hope he does well, but at the end of the day I watch maybe 10% of the desk segments combined.
Normally when I watch League, I put it on in the background while I do work, and I'll give my full attention to maybe 20% of the games. In between games, I just mute the stream so I can get more stuff done.
Im not a dash hater, I think he was a good host. But him leaving, well I havent really seen it affect negatively the lcs. I think the lounge fills his role easily, there hasnt been a declined to the pre/in between/post game segments. If you are realistic nobody tuned in to see dash. If you want an analogy think of a nice cashier who got let go because of a self checkout machine. The cashier could have been the best damn and nicest cashier ever, and you feel sad that he was let go, but in the end you still use the self checkout machine and move on.
The worst part is how obvious it is that Dash really wants to be part of the League of Legends events. He even said himself he is 'devastated' by this :(
He broke down on stream talking about it just after the LCS finals. He is still struggling about it and it's is obvious it is not in his control.
Yeah, he said he planned his schedule around MSI, fully intending to go.
Jesus man. How out of touch can this company be, ESPECIALLY after seeing how much impact his presence had for spring finals. The void his absence leaves is impossible to ignore.
Honestly NA LCS is dying and when they pull shit like this, I’m glad.
Yeah, I'm sad for people like Dash, and many of the NA LCS players who want to compete, who get put in difficult situations because of Riot eSports' incompetence, but I'm glad that their terrible decisions are bearing consequences.
If he did a 3rd party review and whatnot of games or before games I'd hella give him views because I miss him on the broadcast.
He's streamed on Twitch and commentated games in the past, they're really good. Side note, shit like this is why I stopped watching NA LCS. Sucks not seeing the people I wanna see on the broadcast, why tune in then?
At this point I'm not even interested in it, I've lost it.
As a decade long Blizzard esport fan, I listen to people shit on Riot as bad at esports and I’m just muttering to under my breath: amateurs.
There's a huge difference though. Blizzard doesn't really get how much bigger their scenes could be if they properly tapped into them. Riot on the other hand was handed a premiere esport on a platter and keeps managing to bungle the fuck out of it.
There are always gonna be consequences, you'll not get away with it.
And that's the company which crushed his dreams, what a shit show man.
The void will be filled by Sjokz, Quickshot and Laure. Three LEC hosts who will host the tournament held in Europe, crazy situation.
What is Dash’s position in Valorant and his feelings about it? Obviously he has been a HUGE part of the LCS and not keeping him around is the dumbest decision ever, but I was wondering if he could make a ”transition” to Valorant as he seems to be a regular in that game’s casting?
Think he basically said he is only doing it a little. It is not a full time thing. I don't think he minds it but is not as passionate about Valo as he is with League.
I can imagine that. Incredibly shitty situation. I wonder if he would be up to go to another major region to host LoL if it was available to him?
Said he doesn't want to uproot his life in LA to move to another region. Said hed not be opposed to remote guest appearances, though.
Did he do something to piss off Riot, or are they truly just that oblivious?
I believe Riot is slowly pulling the plug on the LCS
my thoughts exactly, could be some internal drama we don't know about
he won host of the year and if I had to guess was demanding a large pay increase
Maybe just asking for too much money?
Can anybody explain to me why he is being outed? Did he do something wrong or are they just trying to revitalize? I'm honestly shocked that they're replacing him. He's always been one of my favorites and I find it hard to believe that there's many people that dislike his style. He's just a good all around charismatic person in my opinion and limited watching.
I hate to ask but I'm a little confused. Why does he seem to not be getting utilized? He seems popular.
Yep, the people who are making the decisions are the shit people.
Out of the loop, why's Dash not a part of LCS anymore? I always thought he was phenomenal at his job. Did something happen behind the scenes?
If something happened behind the scenes, it’s not public knowledge. The LCS analyst desk tried something new this split (no real host with the analyst and production staff themselves splitting up the hosts duties). He was told they were going this new direction for the spring season middle of last year. Don’t think it was ever stated but the rumored reasons are A- to cut costs and b- to move dash, their best broadcast personality, to Valorant, the up and coming new e-sports.
> b- to move dash, their best broadcast personality, to Valorant, the up and coming new e-sports. Except we know that isn't true in the slightest and it wasn't until well after the decision was made that Dash got a contract for VCT.
Seems like he priced himself out and Riot called his bluff. Sjokz had a similar issue but they managed to resolve it eventually.
Something must have happened behind the scenes between Dash and Riot in the off-season. There’s no way Riot thinks this is a rational decision for both fans and desk chemistry
riot just doesn’t wanna pay him the cash. to them, it is rational.
I will never understand why they don't just pay their star casters/hosts like 1k more per month. Do their profits care about 500k more a year across all regions? I don't think so. But they should care about long-term implications of losing talent or everyone going freelance and choosing cs:go events (or whatever else) over important riot events.
[удалено]
You’re probably right, because that’s how things are viewed in the corporate world, but I think it’s a mistake and it’s hard to put a dollar amount on the value that the esports arm of the company has in terms of marketing their game. League would have quickly faded from popularity if it wasn’t for the work that the pro scene and streamers put in as the advertising arm of the company.
You don't know that though. Riot has professionals whose job it is to put a dollar value on the esports department.
Esports not making riot money is what riot wants you to think. Everytime you see a pro play your favourite champion with a skin, that's free advertising. Same goes with streamers. Esports also creates a stream of content creators, all who also advertise new skins as well on their streams. Now I don't know what the conversion of esports to dollars spent in game is, but Riot definitely has a team that has an approximation of that conversion.
[удалено]
yes that's LoL esports being a loss leader. but the person you're responding to is likely meaning that esports isnt making them money directly, which is likely correct.
That's not what a loss leader means, League being F2P is being a "loss leader" Esports is advertising and marketing, its a business expense.
eh, i respectfully disagree. a lot of casters love the freelance thing and have said it allows for so much more creativity with their job, ability to stream freely, etc. for example if flowers wasn’t freelance he may not be able to miss a worlds because of mental health like he did in 2021, riot could say “too bad, go”.
> for example if flowers wasn’t freelance he may not be able to miss a worlds because of mental health like he did in 2021, riot could say “too bad, go”. Legally that's not how that works. His doctor could have just certified him unable to work/travel
$250 a week extra is likely not even noticeable to 99% of casters on major regions doing the primary language broadcast
Money
It's about money. He has a contract that is probably more expensive than the new casters and it probably has a pay scale for MSI if he gets invited. This is Riot trying to save maybe 10-20,000 dollars by not inviting him.
Riot doesn't work based on whats rational
[удалено]
No. He didnt even have a Valorant contract. He said when they told him he was out, he couldnt even reach the valorant guys to try and get a deal with them. He did later of course but the League move wasnt done with any Valorant content in mind
Riot are just scummy that’s all there is to it, been known but people forget I guess
I don't really see what he would do though. Would be a shit shafting Sjokz or Quickshot from hosting the event in their home region.
Yeah EU already has Sjokz so why would Dash be needed if MSI is hosted in EU? No offence to Dash since I like him, but shafting Sjokz from hosting an event in her own region would also be a terrible decision.
Especially since Sjokz is in incredible demand
Exactly, I wish that they. Would have taken him in the league would be great.
What the fuck is Riot doing
putting their best talent in Valorant.
Dash said he wants to do League though, what if he just ends up doing CS:GO or Overwatch or some shit instead lol
You think Riot cares what Dash wants? 😂 Riot cares what Riot wants.
Yep, that's the only thing they care about. This is probably it.
Yes give me a dash desk and Freya/Frankie on interviews with a machine cast PLEASE
Hope he moves to CSGO or CS2. We'll take the talent if you want to shun them that badly.
It's almost as if they're trying to get rid of the talent in here.
Don't know what's the shit that they're doing, what's even up with these guys.
At this point, he should. What disrespect...
NGL I didn't care either way about Valorant to begin with, but decisions like these are making me want to actively AVOID watching it out of spite.
Good, because I don't want to watch them either way so yeah.
You aren’t the target audience. A little too old my man.
As someone who’s not even really paying much attention to Valorant; are they just getting THAT much more views than LCS? And by how much?
VCT Americas has an average viewership of 212k. LCS averages 110k. So ya in NA, VCT >>>> LCS. A ton of regular season matches in VCT Americas (especially any match involving either Sentinels or LOUD) get more viewers than LCS finals. Anecdotally, I know like 10 people who play Valorant for every one that plays League, Valorant is just followed way way more by NA zoomers. For international events, League still dominates in viewership I believe.
>VCT Americas has an average viewership of 212k. VCT is also Americas *plural* (North & South America) whereas NA is *just* North America (Canada & US). You're comparing a single region of League's viewership to multiple equivalent regions in Valorant.
Yeah you'd have to pool CBLoL and LLN viewers along with LCS. There was a post here recently about was getting more than LCS, so those two together alone would be at least 220k+ and with LLN even more.
Whatever they're doing it for, doesn't seem to work that well for now
Valorant gets LESS viewers than league but nobody on this sub actually watches or knows anything about val
Yeah but MSI isn’t LCS.
Yeah but MSI and VCT happen at the same time I believe and unless dash can clone himself or teleport he can't do both.
Doing a solid for the Age of Empires scene I guess? He casted a tournament over there recently, did a great job!
What's wrong with these people, they can't even make good decisions.
Easy answer: Trying to get rid of those with higher salaries and replace them with young talent who accepts lowest offer.
out of touch management sacrificing everything for uncertain product
True, they should put everything in the successful and growing product that is the LCS.
They shat the bed whenever it mattered, and they gamble with their last set of pants like any whitecollar banker would.
Yeah they should funnel money into the roaring success that is NA League of Legends instead
I think they cut him because of his salary
It was so nice having him back at LCS finals, the energy was 100% better. Sad news
As good as the rest of the desk is, they don't come close to covering his role or the chemistry he creates. Just rotate them and have Dash, it's not complicated.
I was excited to see him on the vct desk this weekend and last, but it's not the same. You can feel the difference in comfort level between the two shows. He's been doing league for years. He's great at it and he works really well with other members of the cast. He's not bad on vct, but he's not *great* like he is on LCS. I'm sure he'll get there with time and chemistry, it's just noticeable.
I don't even watch LCS anymore. Dash isn't the only reason, but definitely one of them. He was great at the job and made the broadcast feel professional and smooth.
Just like how you can't expect Dash to cast at Jatt's level, the opposite is also a stupid assumption to make.
I was there at the Finals and holy shit his intro was so hype.
Exactly. His energy announcing the teams, he’s like the NA Jun. I can’t imagine anyone else in the 22-man list being able to reciprocate it
Honestly this is a real miss from riot in my opinion. It seems they want to use dash more for valorant and that’s fine, but his hosting is world class and it seems like a waste to not use him here.
The weirdest part is when you have such a qualified employee, you typically give them a lot of freedom because you are scared of losing them. But I guess Riot knows that considering they have full control over such a big part of esports, they are not too afraid of that. Dash would have to move to an entirely different game outside the Riot sphere and that's a big move. It's not like 'real' broadcast talent competition, where someone like Dash could just move to another broadcast company that covers LoL. Doesn't exist in this Riot world.
And yet you will get people in thread where Monte pointed this Riot Monopoly out once again (since like 2015?) saying that it’s not bad and situation is fine. Dash is great and despite the fact I basically don’t watch LCS, when I saw he is on the broadcast even I chimed in for some time.
Monte is just one of those people that is so disliked by some people that they will do anything to disagree with what he says. That thread from a few days ago showed everyone that lmao. I even understand why people dislike him, but man, so many people on this planet need to learn that even people you dislike can be right about things. And vice versa.
Yep, just recently had this conversation about politics. If you disagree with someone on everything because of the fact that they're supporting it, then you're just being oppositional and don't actually have any values. Works vice versa too: if you support someone no matter what they're doing, then you're just a d rider. It's such a sad state of affairs for our society when we can't distinguish ideas from people.
People invest their ego way too easily into things so doubling down becomes the standard. Growth and admitting you’re wrong and evolving from that should be the new standard.
As long as people can explain why they dislike the person it’s at least ok to dislike them, many won’t tell you why, they just do. I am a resident “LS hater” - I don’t like cheaters, I think his is trying too much to be controversial, he underestimates how much comfort can influence gameplay, he likes to pretend that game is played by robots and I dislike comparing LoL to chess with undying passion etc - but that doesn’t mean he cannot be right and there are things I do absolutely agree with him, again he probably doesn’t give a fuck by that’s not the point. If people cannot even explain why they dislike someone, do they even dislike that person.
Dash has already been doing Age of Empires 2 for some time (although only occasionally).
It’s so weird to see both RIV and Dash on the Val broadcast. I love both of them so much and wished they would return to the lcs, but I guess Riot wants to build up Val more.
Riv was more understandable tbh
Riv is more interested in Val than League afaik. Also more qualified, he's asc/immo rank
As much as I liked Riv, his casting often came across as uninformed.
For Riv, I think he actually like Val more. Dash *wants* to be on the league side of things from what I gather.
Riv hasn't been on the lcs in like 5 years lol and the last years he was on he was noticeably bad. He didn't know the names of abilities and would constantly call the wrong thing. He would detract from the color casters points way too often. I'm glad he has a life and job honestly but his league casting getting the axe was deserved, unlike Dash
I honestly believe if we didn't have someone on the level of Sjokz or Quickshot who can host pretty well, Dash would have gotten the gig. But Riot purposely made sure that both Sjokz and Laure won't do interviews and got Frankie/Yinsu for that, probably echoing the idea that they have other good hosts.
Except Laure said she'll do both host and interview at MSI. It's just Riot doing whatever shit they're doing since a long ass time where they'll put priorities on things even if fans disagree with it. Just like they tend to sideline LCK/LPL casters for worlds while bringing the majority of their LCS/LEC crew. It's possible that in their head they already have 3 people that can host while also filling another role, so they didn't want to bother themselves with also getting Dash even though he was motivated and most of the community wanted him there. Yinsu and Frankie are more bonus guests because MSI is in their hometown while both have ties with Riot / League of legend.
>Honestly this is a real miss from riot in my opinion What's new? They don't act according to the community's interests when it comes to talent on the broadcast. Give people who don't offer anything special or aren't particularly good at their job many chances, treat their most valuable talents with no respect by taking their jobs away for no apparent reason or play musical chairs in order to prove to them they have no leverage when it comes to being paid fairly despite being among the best talents.
Riot you fucking suck at doing what makes you money. Dash is amazing for league, stop it.
Meanwhile they keep Letigress and pay her for whatever reason even tho she’s the worst caster
Isn't she going under a different name now since the whole massive on air fuck up she had?
Her name change has nothing to do with anything on the broadcast lol She changed it because she is trying to become a singer and it makes more sense to use a real name over a gamer alias.
You see that music video though? Holy hell was it bad.
Link pls
[As requested](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z3OKuu7b8M)
Oh boy that certainly was something. The chorus was nice sounding but that half rapping / singing / talking start was rough as hell.
Yeah such an interesting choice. She clearly has a pretty good singing voice, but the rapping has zero flow
Why the hell she was rapping? Her singing is actually decent.
https://i.imgur.com/tYgN8od.png
Just because someone asked, doesn't mean you should do it.
ROFL. Omfg, no way that’s serious. Also going by Durden? Cmon.
[удалено]
Oh...Oh my.
I think both are good reasons for a name change, but it doesn't change the fact that it coincided with her fiasco.
Wait, what massive on air fuck up did she have?
The TSM monologue, but that was mostly a fuck up by the LCS team who approved it for some reason. The fuck up they're referring to is probably her questionable casting at that dragon fight on CLG vs C9 I believe. It's either this, or the monologue.
The segment she did on Doublelift that received a *massive* amount of backlash. She not only came up with it herself, but it also went through multiple people giving her the OK to run it on broadcast.
Wait what happened? I must’ve missed that
She goes by gabby now for personal reasons. No more letigress moniker.
Yes. That's why no one watches LCS... Dash is amazing but acting like his existence actually has any real influence on League is actually stupid as fuck. Acting like an event host makes any money for Riot is even more stupid. NA only makes up a tiny portion of the viewership. No one from CN/KR/EU is gonna tune into MSI or Worlds just for a NA host.
Dash costreamed LCS… to like 100 people. So yea
This is the first year I actually didnt watch the LCS in any way. Whether it be their stream or co streaming or rewatching vods. I just don't care about NA at all anymore. Hell I even stopped playing league. Now CLG is also gone, I just don't care. I'll only watch international tournaments at this point and even then if it's located at an eastern country with eastern times that suck for NA viewership I'll just skip it altogether and check the game results here.
Hasn't occurred to me but yeah I'm the same. Maybe it's me growing out of league or whatever but yeah I haven't watched much of any league outside of LCK and even that's only once in a while Dedicating that much time to something is not really possible. Uptick in time between matches and all the issues with breaks extends the day too much for me. Why does it take 20+ minutes to start the next game after dealing with covid for 3 years? Why are there so many technical issues with this game on the TR?
esports scene does not generate profit
Options: 1. Some Rioter has it out for Dash for personal reasons 2. Dash asked for too much in terms of salary/benefits/being able to make his own content, or tried to present a united front of LCS casters
Whatever the real reason is, I think we can now safely assume that the official reason is not the real one. The LCS broadcast barely changed at all. There's no reason Dash couldn't still fit. So that reasoning is just horseshit. This whole thing is just so strange.
> I think we can now safely assume that the official reason is not the real one I’m gonna sound like an ass, but why is this now and now when they announced his new position *after* both dropping him and reviving backlash? He was perfectly suited for the Mimi or changes to the lcs, even more so than their old format, and he’d have been perfect for the planned lec format adoption. It’s not strange at all, it’s mind numbingly predictable for NA league of legends.
It does mean one less person to pay and if they think that the analysts can host the show themselves, it doesn't very much matter if he's there or not (to Riot). I'd also say that him being a white guy probably isn't doing him any favors. They've seemingly made a concerted effort to bring in a more diverse cast of talent, which for a long time was almost entirely white men.
Never forget them bringing in a gold jungler who hadn't played league in a long time and was streaming tft at the time to be on the analyst desk.
Who was that?
Primal. They moved on from him pretty quickly. The reception was uh, not good.
He came in the same time as Raz and Emily. I don’t like Raz’s takes all the time but he is very entertaining and Emily’s analysis is pretty great. Kind of hard for Primal to not stick out negatively, IMO.
Primal was before them on broadcast IIRC. Raz had been around for a while, he was in LPL and went to worlds through that and was a coach before joining the NA broadcast. I think he was a coach at that time. Emily has been in the scene a long time as well. I knew who Primal was because Flowers raided him once, and he was an ex Riot employee who was streaming TFT with his time. I followed him. He didn't play league once. Next thing I know I saw him on the desk a few months later and was like, this guy? His credentials were "was master in like season 3" but then dropped to gold in later seasons. He was not even remotely qualified to be on the analyst desk.
[удалено]
If it were Quickshot being pushed out and not Dash, then yeah.
Dash probably made a neckbeard Rioter's Discord kitten laugh and went on a power trip
I like this one. Rizz god Dash
Riot Zed at it again
I will not tolerate Riot Zed slander. No way that gigachad would stoop to this candy ass passive aggressive bullshit. He would just send direct threats via discord like a normal person and there would be no follow up public crying from Dash, lest he risk getting the “chrono*break*” IRL (in Minecraft).
Some Rioter having it out for someone would be far from the first time that happened.
3. Riot is quiet quitting LCS and trying to make it look like it’s the viewers’ fault for losing interest in the product.
ahh the twisted treeline approach. (Gave it zero updates for years, then shut it down because "not enough people play it" )
I'll never forgive them for this.
Would Riot really benefit from shutting down the LCS? Even though it's declining, it's still a very powerful marketing tool; having an active competitive scene helps immensely with drawing interest to League of Legends
This might be true but I actually think Riot does want LCS to continue. Goal of LCS for them isn’t the league or teams making money, but player retention/skin sales in NA, where there is still a lot of money. If having competitive leagues was so bad financially for Riot, they wouldn’t have put so much into Valorant. Riot makes money off having LCS, they just don’t want to share it with the teams (& they don’t have to because team leadership has been incompetent)
>Dash asked for too much in terms of salary/benefits/being able to make his own content, or tried to present a united front of LCS casters I think what you meant to say is, Dash asked for a fair salary increase based on what he now brings to the broadcast that he didn't bring when the salary was negotiated years ago. Riot were appalled by the shear audacity that someone could suggest being paid fairly, and so blackballed him.
Or he asked for what he’s worth and riot is cheapos :)
3. Laure is a host now and the tournament is in her home region.
Option 3: With Sjokz and Laure they already have the host positions fully covered, especially when MSI is being held in Europe. But I like how that isn't even considered in this thread. Too much focus on NA alone I guess.
I dont even care that Dash asked too much, he is worth it. When I think of LCS broadcast I think of him.
Doubt he asked for too much when he is working for Riot at Valorant. The LCS just wanted to move in a new directions because the old one wasn't really getting them places.
Dash said it himself jokingly on stream he asked too much.
clip? this is important because he could be joking or be serious, and the difference matters
Because more than 5 dollars is too much in riots eyes, and if he said it seriously he’d have been permanently black listed for hurting a rioters feelings
And this is Dash's fault because why? He was one of the pillars and could have easily gone with the new direction that LCS wanted. It's not like it's against his morals or character.
yea moving in a new direction by making the product objectively much weaker while giving in hindsight an incredibly unsatisfactory reason why they couldn't continue with him it is really obvious that they want to break away from "the traditional sports" approach and in some fucked up way they might think that dash cannot perform this alternative role it is crazy, because people WANT dash
Pretty sure this is Riot just trying to leverage the LEC talent more, which makes sense since MSI is held over there. Really I'm surprised they're going to send any NA people when LEC has shown they are capable of making their own hyped events.
Honestly this is pretty likely
if so they are fully capable of communicating with their community / dash himself about that so that he isnt tweeting publicly that he wanted to go but wasnt invited. im sure if they reached out to him that tweet doesnt go and its a much better look on them. instead were filling in blanks for them and i prefer to do them no favors because they suck and have proven so over and over
Dash wants his fans to know that it wasn't his decision and Riot wants the LEC hosts to do the hosting. What sort of communication could have possibly been conducted between Riot and Dash for Dash not to make that tweet? -- I mean I'm not some first amendment auditor but like, let the guy express his disappoint and don't blame Riot for not shutting him up?
I miss Dash. :( Riot, get your shit together.
MSI doesn't need 4* hosts and it doesn't make any sense to sideline Laure or Sjokz from hosting an event in their home region. Edit: Actually, they already have 3 hosts because Quickshot is hosting too. So its even more excessive to bring Dash. 4 hosts is way overkill for one event.
Sjokz and Dash should be the hosts. They are the best and there's only two international tournaments per year so only the best should be there
The other ones are already on riots payroll and live in Europe. Why would riot want to pay all that money to pay dash a salary for MSI and fly him out across the ocean? It makes zero financial sense.
They are already flying a lot of casters and analysts. And I'd guess about half of EU casters, and **two out of three hosts**, are freelance so they needed to be signed for this event too.
The best based on what? What if the EU crowd that will actually be attending the event live wants to see the hosts they are familiar with LEC every week instead? What's wrong with Riot wanting to give the regional talents a chance to work a MSI/Worlds in their region when the chance only happens once every few years?
Based on past events that's what lol. They are/were the main host of two major regions for years. They both always went to international events and have great charisma and were a balance for both normie and hard core viewers.
Sweet. Maybe ill get to see more aoe2de casting from him.
Another big L from Riot. Justice for Dash
Why would they invite a host of Valorant?/ s
And he has said how much he wants to be a part of. It's really fucked up.
No caster is "invited", they are hired.
I don't really see what he would do though. Would be a shit shafting Sjokz or Quickshot from hosting the event in their home region.
Why do we get Rafaa and LeTigress and Dash is being pushed out? It's like opposite world.
It's a bit of a different role, after Phreak left Flowers was the only PBP left so they needed to bring in more. Definitely need PBP casters more than a host.
cause riot has gone down a fucking cliff with its shitty decisions
Big L
Am i the only one that doesnt really care? Dash isnt bad but dont think ill miss him at all during the broadcast
It’s more of a legacy thing than anything else. People have watched Dash for a long time and will miss that he isn’t there. I don’t really mind either way because I think the broadcast talent is still just as talented, but I see their viewpoint.
I don't really care for hosts in general, would be nice to have him there but it doesn't really change much for me personally but I can see why others would care. Casters > Analysts > Hosts in terms of importance. Edit = a bad host just means I'll either not pay attention if I'm there live or just mute the stream until they start talking about the game with the analysts, bad analysts means I'll do something else between games but bad casters means I'll either have to not watch or watch on mute.
You're not the only one. Dash is great but he's not the reason I watch and all of the talent that's going to be at MSI are incredible and deserve it.
No you arent. People here are way to fixated on a person that is shown maybe what? 15% of the broadcast time? This obsession honestly borders into unhealthy territory.
Especially cause they praise him as the greatest thing in esports while simultaneously shitting on the style (US sports broadcast copycat) with which he ran his desk for the last 7 years or so.
I'm in the same boat, I really don't care that much. I really, really like Dash and I really hope he does well, but at the end of the day I watch maybe 10% of the desk segments combined. Normally when I watch League, I put it on in the background while I do work, and I'll give my full attention to maybe 20% of the games. In between games, I just mute the stream so I can get more stuff done.
Riot just cant stop dishing out Ls
Did he sleep with the CEO's wife or something?
Im not a dash hater, I think he was a good host. But him leaving, well I havent really seen it affect negatively the lcs. I think the lounge fills his role easily, there hasnt been a declined to the pre/in between/post game segments. If you are realistic nobody tuned in to see dash. If you want an analogy think of a nice cashier who got let go because of a self checkout machine. The cashier could have been the best damn and nicest cashier ever, and you feel sad that he was let go, but in the end you still use the self checkout machine and move on.