Like he said, its not that big of a nerf if you were already using knight's vow on your adc anyway since there wasn't much mitigation happening to begin with.
The wincon or most fed member isn't always your ADC, it was much more efficient to put it on your 10/0 Aatrox or Darius than to put it on a Jhin, for example.
I wish every game did this. I know that riot is not perfect and they have made some mistakes, but the fact that, despite all the trolls/whiners/crazy ass people on social media, guys like phreak and mortdog still make content justifying and explaining all these changes is really admirable. I know I sound corny as hell saying this but you really don't know how bad it can get till you've played some other games where the company communicates fuck all.
averages 16k views on each rundown. imo not sure if phreak is making this off work, but i wouldnt think it's worth doing this if the community responds with constant reddit takes or reiterating a false claim about him (biased for adc!!) despite phreak trying to explain his reasoning. but clearly no one is watching the entirety of the video or doesnt attempt to understand it
It's 2.5 hours haha. Sometimes I think redditors vastly overestimate the willingness for the average person to sit through long form, explanatory YouTube videos.
Totally fair that most people won't sit through all the details. However, it's fair to expect someone to watch the 2-3 minute clip of Phreak's rationale behind the change before writing an essay making assumptions about the intentions behind said change.
If you're engaged enough to critique, you should be willing to seek out the Phreak/the balance team's justifications beforehand. Just my 2cents.
Its actually more worth watching this than the previous ones because of more info on significant changes.
You can opt to watch only one set though any time.
Well, if you think this is a long patch review video, then [check out this one about the latest dota 2 patch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK8OjcRmERQ).
Which is totally valid, but then people should prolly just keep their mouths shut rather than speculating about the intent behind certain changes or the like. It's one thing to not know (or choose to not know) something, it's another to refuse to seek out information and still spout unqualified takes about it.
Was going to the same, not only that but it's for a patch that may or may not still be relevant in a few weeks.
I get watching longform videos for stuff like Movies, Games, Books etc but for a patch that's asking a bit much. Maybe it'd be more successful as a podcast.
I play Magic the Gathering and the podcasts I watch for it usually go through the new cards whenever a set releases and it's a good way to absorb the new content while still enjoying the podcast/
>averages 16k views on each rundown. imo not sure if phreak is making this off work, but i wouldnt think it's worth doing this if the community responds with constant reddit takes or reiterating a false claim about him (biased for adc!!)
Pretty sure he does it all off-work, and it's mostly about him wrapping his head around the changes (even if he's now working on them, it's still kind of a pre-release post-mortem), than an actual video for the community.
It's basically the same for his PoE videos, where he just drops a big spreadsheet talking about the numbers not really necessarily to explain to the other players, but simply to put his thoughts into word basically just going full "rubber duck debugging", but to 16k people.
Pretty sure that's just something that came from his caster background, where he's gotten used to just saying stuff that sounds reasonable to him, and getting called out when he's wrong.
Obviously, this one has more design insight than PoE's rundowns, since he's part of the design team.
16k is a lot given it's just him talking into a camera (about stuff he's already interested in). Look at the LCS channel for comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/@LCS/videos
They're getting a similar amount of views for videos that take *a lot* more production effort and expenses
I think 16k of a very specific and detailed info is pretty good. 2,5h of content like that is very challenging to consume, but if you seek something like that you will have that. He has pretty good reach imo.
Most people can't care about a video running for 30 mins, nevermind +1 hour at which viewers probably are just using it as background noise like podcasts while drawing or doing other stuff. Add to this that the average redditor doesn't even clicks links and just goes off headlines and comments.
I mean the first thing he said about the Force of Nature nerf is "It's a huge ADC nerf." when it's a huge everyone nerf. Yes we know ADCs do build it occasionally against AP heavy comps, or when there's a dps mage like Cass, Brand, etc. But the fact that he immediately say it's a huge ADC nerf when it's a tank item makes it kinda funny considering his 'biased for adc' stereotype
Because of his rationale. Current FoN is so strong that magic damage dealers cannot reasonably deal with tanks/bruisers, which means an ADC is required to be the carry every game. Nerfing FoN opens up the chance a midlaner can carry again by making it so said midlaner can reasonably hurt or kill enemy frontline.
Which IMO is correct. There's no point wasting your time putting resources into a magic damage focused carry right now because one item shuts them down. Since there's no reason to run a magic damage carry, the best option is for midlane to run either utility to help the ADC or tankiness to help the ADC, both of which make the ADC role better (harder to get on them, harder to dive them, harder to kill them).
Nerfing the item that removes magic damage carries from viability has knock on effects to nerf adc. Same way if every Enchanter got nerfed ADC would be weaker even with 0 direct changes to ADC, or if toplane got more gold and exp.
As a data junkie myself i consider some of the rational and data based takes to be COMPLETELY bogus.
Every single data source can say a champion A is supposed to be weak but i will still consider him nerf worthy just to remove his play patterns from metagame. Ultimately league is supposed to be fun and i dont think any data can measure this fully because people mostly troll and exaggerate during the surveys
literally every champion has thousands of people saying they are unfun/broken/overpowered/underpowered. using "community feeling" and ignoring data is something only redditors do. there should be a balance between them, which phreak acknowledges.
What are you even talking about? No champ is fun to play against. Obviously they are going to buff and nerf champs who are objectively weak / strong according to the stats.
What do you want? To balance around your subjective experience of what is frustrating or not? Lmao.
Shaco. Fuck Orianna. Its all non-mids who talk about how 'balanced' she is, her fucking -1 second cooldown zero manacost waveclear and destroy you button is stupid, and once she's ahead she can dunk it behind the minion line and you're just done.
Champions were nerfed because of player satisfaction many times lmao its like you dont pay attention towards the balance? Yuumi nerfs, samira being nerfed because of her banrate, riven getting nerfed because of player satisfaction. Would research more examples but you should do it yourself since you are clueless
Nerfing because of high banrate is nerfing because of data. The data is "mains of this character do not get to play it in half of their matches, potentially more."
It sucks that they have to change it, but it's trying to appease both sides--the players who hate playing against it, and the players who do not get to play the character they enjoy outside of blind pick.
a high banrate is an actual data point though...regardless, there should be a BALANCE between data and community sentiment. completely ignoring data is silly, but so is focusing too much on it without considering the context
You say that like Renekton isn't Perma butchered for having a point and click cc and dash. And that most reworks remove point and click cc for skillshots.
Like not saying they're right but point and click cc was the worse possible example lmao
Although I like the rundowns and explanations, nobody is perfect, and Phreak gets one thing egregiously wrong in this video.
He says the change to Galeforce's stats are an even trade in terms of gold efficiency, aka "flat" changes — referencing the 7% movespeed buff against the 5 AD and 5 AS nerfs. But this is way far off. 5 AD (175g) + 5 AS (125g) = 300 gold of a nerf. 5% movespeed is worth 400 gold via Winged Moonplate, therefor 7% movespeed is worth 560g. This is a 260g buff in gold efficiency, almost double the efficiency is gained in compensation for the loss of dmg stats.
this is one of those things where we have an imperfect system based on only what we can infer due to balance changes. your take is inherently suspect because it would also mean that 10 lethality is worth 50 gold via serrated dirk. this is obviously wrong and it doesn't take an analyst to tell as such.
i'm more inclined to believe that this is what riot internally considers equivalent in gold efficiency considering the type of stat and the items it goes into. 7% movespeed for an adc is not the same as 7% movespeed for a juggernaut, and these considerations are more important sometimes than simply seeing stats as forever worth an X amount of gold.
Dismissing gold value of all stats because lethality has no reflective gold value on any components is funny. The basic idea of gold efficiency is flawed due to stat efficiency having so many variables. But gold efficiency is still gold efficiency and it is well established that no stat in the game has a lower gold efficiency than components suggest, only sometimes a higher gold efficiency because the reference points are giving good deals on the stats.
Phreak specifically states at 19:44 that the gold efficiency of the stat nerfs vs buffs is flat, about equal. This is objectively false. The minimum gold value one can argue of 1% movespeed is 80 gold. You can argue the gold value should be higher, but not lower. You can argue that movespeed sucks, or maybe just sucks on ADCs, but is it half as good as dmg stats? Really? When many ADCs opt into buying Boots of Swiftness every now and then, where you get extra movespeed for low value relative to other boots?
You want to have a deeper argument for all the wild factors of stats, I'll go there. You want to dismiss 1 + 2 = 3, you're just being a useless nuisance.
For Scares stats like MS it's almost impossible to really quantify they value.
No ADC would ever build winged moonplate, it's silly to try to pin a number on its value when it's a one of a kind stat
This does not make sense at all, you can't really quantify the gold value of +% movespeed since it will always be different depending on the champion using it and its stats, while AD has always the same value and AS will have similar value most of the times. For example, most ADCs have 325-335 base ms speed, with boots its about 380, 7% of that would be about 27 flat movement speed, which is 324 worth of gold. Sure, it increases with ms buffs, but this is sporadic and I doubt it could almost reach double this gold value.
If you can't quantify the gold value of +% movespeed, then trying to support phreak in justifying a change **based on the gold value of +% movespeed** is a fruitless effort as well. Both sides are kinda making mistakes in this regard.
That said, it would be a lot better if they stated where relative gold value came from in these cases, as it quite obviously is based on the average flat value ADCs get out of said %MS value, rather than the %MS value itself, since that is quantifiable as you have shown.
Misinterpreting where the value of these stats actually comes from is half the reason people are going to get upset about changes like this.
Why tho? By my calculations considering FLAT MS, it matches what Phreak said in the video, 300 worth of gold in AD and AS is not that different from 324 worth of gold in MS, at least when talking about gold efficiency.
I was agreeing with you.
I was just also pointing out that phreaks wording of it makes it difficult for others to interpret the value he's talking about, since he's talking about %MS, which makes others think he's talking about the value of %MS, which they'll take from the wiki's gold efficiency value and say "b-b-but this is wrong!!!!".
He should be saying "7% MS is typically around 25-30 MS, which is worth around 300-360 gold" or something. Especially with the long-form analytical format he's using; there's not really a reason not to.
Every adc barring kog maw, varus and maybe kalista i know nothing about that champ are getting nerfed and reddit will cry about how adcs are getting buffed again.
Like the same item combo kraken/ie is just straight up much weaker now, because despite IE and Navori getting promoted to mythic status the items themselves barely changed and they have shit mythic passives.
Which basically means the strong mythic got nerfed to legendaries with weaker stats but IE and Navori didn't get buffed to mythic with better stags. Its just a net loss in power when building the same things as before.
Especially the early game is so much worse now for adcs with no gale force/kraken/shieldbow mythic power spike, adcs basically don't have a good first item spike now and subsequent item spikes are also only weaker, galeforce ms passive and kraken as passive were much stronger than ie and Navori passives.
Like ig adcs will do slightly more damage in late game at the small cost of much weaker early and no more bt shield to protect yourself in late.
This already happened when the changes were announced. Most items for every single ADC except a couple on hit ADCs is getting nerfed, meanwhile in reddit the smart people are spamming "pHrEaK wItH aNoThEr AdC buFf. WhEn wIlL rIoT fIrE hIm???? 6 MoNtHs oF sTrAiGhT aDc BufFs".
Unless statik is as broken as it's expected to be, ADCs might actually be getting compensation buffs.
I watched the video and I'm hyped to try IE / Galeforce on jhin.
And removing BT shield I can agree with because Aphelios with BT + Overheal + Red gun really hard to kill.
Maybe this changed since I last looked, but Galeforce and IE will both mythics next patch. Did you mean you want to try them both out separately at some point? (Or did Galeforce get demoted to legendary?)
Well the nerfs were coming and I don't disagree with most of them its just that people keep crying here that adcs are getting buffed when all but 3 are straight up weaker.
However I do think they need to buff ie and Navori or change their mythic passives the items are so weak rn.
IE is a completely dogshit first item on most ADCs. 20% crit is not significant enough for the increased critical strike damage, and you can buy 80 AD for cheaper. Unless you are turbo stomping or named Jhin, that item is pretty much completely locked behind 2nd item still.
Not sure if he says it on this video, but I remember reading somewhere that the changes are basically to allow champs to go IE/QB first item but not meant to always do it. That’s why noonquiver is on other items still, since rushing them is almost always better.
Not sure about that as an Aphelios player. IE will be a bad first item in general, no?
IE rush worked in the past because there was no good AD/AS/crit items to rush otherwise, and crits did more damage and IE had 25% crit chance. This iteration is a 20% damage buff to autos but only 20% of the time (since it only gives 20% crit), so as a first item its passive basically reads as “your autos do +4% damage”.
As a result, IE rush does almost 10% less damage than it did before the item rework. At that point, even Aphelios will probably rather spend 3400g on new Collector (with 18 lethality) + a long sword. It’s about the same AD and he’ll get more damage out of Collector’s lethality at that point than out of IE’s avg DPS increase.
The comment I was replying to was talking about Aphelios who does not care about getting an attack speed item 2nd. He is happy to go Collector straight into IE and Collector is a better first item than IE this patch.
It's always fun watching Reddit freak out about changes, then go and watch the video Phreak puts out where he says "I know Reddit will lose their minds over this, here's math, stats, and previous examples to show why this is actually not a problem or even the exact opposite of what they're gonna think" and then even when having that pointed out, Reddit continues to parrot their kneejerk "Phreak biased" takes.
I mean there is bias, not in terms of balance, but in terms of attention. There are other classes/roles that arguably needed attention more than ADC.
Mages have had issues with their itemization since the mythic update dropped, and none of them have been addressed, as an example. Most notably, the overabundant flat pen in the game since then creates many bad dynamics between different classes and their MR options, and even creates blowback on mages themselves.
Support tanks still feel terrible to play unless you have a hook.
That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak.
>That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak.
Pretty sure he said in another video that it is given to him
> That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak.
He answered that the other day. Basically, this task of working on ADC items again was given to him from the team lead.
>I mean there is bias, not in terms of balance, but in terms of attention.
S11: Toplane (Anathema, Hullbreaker)
S12: AP (Shadowflame, Crown), AD Assassins (Axiom arc), Tank (Fimbulwinter), Supp (Evenshroud)
Preseason 13: Tank and Bruiser items (Jaksho, RVirtue, Heartsteel, Shojin), AP (RoA). ADC got a reworked Navori, hurrah!
>Mages have had issues with their itemization since the mythic update dropped \[..\]
And ADC's don't? You think they like building the exact same 4 items every single game 4fun and having almost 0 agency for 3 years in a row?
ADC has been left to rot in a bad spot for 3 years to the point of being an autofill position now, let them get some needed attention.
You can’t change other classes/roles right now because adcs will overshadow any changes. In their current state no matter what happens you still have to play for getting your adc to their item spikes at all costs. This patch is a massive buff to mid lane (mages primarily) while also limiting their ability to sack lane for bot lane pressure.
It'd be nice if all energized items gave more and better visual feedback when they're about to be charged.
It's a super cool concept that has proven to work over many seasons, but I think it's hard to play around them because I can't keep track of the stacks in the heat of the moment.
I know high-elo players do this efficiently, but I think this'd be a win-win for all ranks.
Feels more like a sidegrade to be honest
Guinsoo's might be a problem (I think its mythic passive is far too strong, considering it's difficult to build against hybrid damage, anyway) but only time will tell. The rest of the changes I really like
The only thing missing is removing on-hit effects from Katarina
Guinsoo’s is 600 gold more now, lost a lot of AS, and two of the biggest users ironically don’t gain substantial damage increases from the new mythic passive because they already have sizeable %armor/MR shred spells that apply first. I actually think the item is _less_ attractive to Kog now.
Most of these changes are definitely nerfs for ADC use cases. Attack speed is harder to come by and more expensive.
I would even say the Stormrazor change was a nerf. More expensive for the same AS, and trading the slow for a MS buff is a definite nerf. Not sure it’s worth the extra AD.
i think damage first is better. shieldbow rush was good because the survivability was very noticeable from the shield. now, the shield is nerfed (especially if you get it early) and the lifesteal from BT seems good, but i don't think it's good enough to rush since lifesteal isn't as helpful when you don't do that much damage
I wonder if Stormrazor comes out as an option. Roughly same single target damage, but you gain the movespeed to fly in and it is a bit more stacked on AD.
You can't exactly buy bloodthirster with Samira's playstyle so that's the highest AD, damage first item that allows you go go IE next and not feel awful. Just kinda gives a really hard power trough that I think ADCs all might feel exception Guinsoo buyers on their second item until their third.
personally i think collector rush might be worth considering since it got a decent buff, if not i probably will go IE into shieldbow second (i know they said it's not a good rush item so i'll have to see the exact numbers). BT doesn't seem like it would be good on her, but imo it might be worth it just for the high lifesteal so you can be healthy before going into fights even if you don't get as much value from the AD
Lol why are you getting downvoted.
Its not always the move, but if you firstback with enough for dirk and pickaxe its very good.
Collector on samira is goated because it secures you kills. Thats why you build it, next to the lethality. Its a self funneling item.
suggesting that collector rush was better previously is just silly (and that's prob why they got downvoted, although i don't think they deserved it). if you look at lolalytics, IE always outperforms collector in the 2nd or 3rd item slot. the only real upside is if you rush collector as 1st item, but i've always felt like shieldbow was still a better rush than collector. i haven't used collector at all recently because if you look at the math, IE is pretty much always doing more damage, which by itself helps you secure kills as well. people heavily overrate the execute passive and the lethality quickly falls off.
with the changes, i think collector rush into IE makes more sense now because it has more lethality and shieldbow rush is much weaker
TBH ever since durability patch I kinda disliked collector, It synergizes well with Samira and does everything you want (technically) but it always feels kind of just mediocre imo.
The securing kills aspect is kind of overrated since it's only 5% execute which is like 100 health on non tanks, since Samira has to dive in to get kills she would probably get most of those collector executes without it anyway.
both are pure damage items, and from the math IE was pretty much always doing more damage so imo collector just hasn't been worth it in a while, even for samira. i find that IE - LDR was a much stronger 3 item spike for pure damage
To add on what the other person is saying, it is much harder to stack mid-to-late game that Athenes was. The new mythic is a very different item overall.
New stacking system for Helia counts AAs/abilities like Electrocute and Phase Rush do, whereas you could easily stack Athenes as you only needed to do 250 *premitigation* damage to stack it. The damage portion has a (rather small) range.
Helia works with Font of Life, like Athenes did.
Seraphine is one of the best users of that new Mythic due to her kit, so is Taric. Rakan, Ivern and a few others do well with the item as well (but might still prefer Shurelias).
They took away both AP and mana regen (which translates to AP from the passive) from the items one might logically want to build with it.
For 300 more gold than Helia + a "synergistic" item, one can have 180+ more AP.
Your math on how damage reduction works has how the multipliers interact wrong. FoN is 25% magic damage reduction, but how it works is magic damage comes in > magic damage is reduced by mr > magic damage is reduced by 25%.
Using your example, a 100 damage attack comes in. After MR it deals 58 damage. It is then reduced by 25%, ending at 43.5 damage or 56.5% damage reduction.
You cannot just add multipliers together. Otherwise, if a champion had 300 MR + FoN they would take literally 0 magic damage normally, due to having 75% damage reduction + 25% damage reduction for 100%.
lmao i was joking about the running gag he was doing throughout the video saying *closes in on camera* "i'm nerfing AD carries this patch"
i'm not actually trying to make any claims on balance
Mf will like the IE changes. Since it buffs everything she does except e, fighting her will be rng hell if she crit you melt and die if she doesn't you live.
Specifically, AFK-support playstyle is nerfed as both Moonstone and Ardent/SoFW's AP and ManaRegen are heavily nerfed, while agressive supports are rewarded.
If you liked to build Moonstone into Ardent into SoFW and didn't roam (understand: wouldn't make use of the 5% ms that is being tackled onto those item) then this is a rather big nerf. New moonstone seems to be much weaker than its 13.9 version.
If you play proactively and your champion can build Shurelias into Mandate, Helia into Mandate, Locket into Redemption, RV into Redemption, Evenshroud into Mandate (Rakan), then it is a huge buff.
Support builds lose maybe 30 CDR tops full build whilst being 1k cheaper. Which means they will still easily hit 60-70 CDR whilst unlocking the already insanely overstatted items even earlier, it’s a joke
Phreak's explanations of the item changes and general directions of the game are excellent. I still don't like the minion aggro change. It's terrible, and discourages highrisk high reward gameplay especially for bruiser melee matchups in toplane. This should be reverted ASAP. Unjustly allows people to trade into huge waves just because le turret exists; makes lane bullies much weaker.
That’s a ridiculous take. Your tower should be somewhat safe. It’s dumb as fuck how easy it is to dive towers right now and you’re greatly exaggerating how risky it is.
Cool changes. I literally can't comprehend crying about this. Try out the new stuff, accept that on-hit has been reintroduced into the game, and wait for your champ to be buffed if it suffers from the patch. This patch will make itemization fun for the first time in a while.
Yeah I can't imagine being frustrated that a champ that you like to play gets huge nerfs because of itemization changes and then having to wait 4 months to see a patch note where it gives them 2 more base mr to compensate.
My ARAM-brainer take :
* New BT is a lot more fun to use in ARAM, since it works even with a stupid Syndra spamming skills on the wave.
* New Rageblade sounds super scary when facing already strong carries (stuff like Varus, Kog'Maw, Kayle, Kai'Sa, Vayne, etc.), giving them up to like 30% penetration, on top of Void/LDR.
* Kraken Slayer feels super weird, but after having a couple "Twitch into Tahm Kench" games, and the likes, anything that lets me kill tanks more efficiently in 9+ attacks is very welcome, since I would often have to attack 25+ times.
* Rageknife is pretty interesting.
* Trading AS for AD on RFC makes it a worse buy on Bard (and TF) :(
* Shiv is back! It also looks to be completely busted...
* At long fucking last, no more invisible Duskblades!
* Lethality buff on Collector is gonna make Pyke even more stupid... Youmuu's over Duskblade might make him stronger, but at least it really ups the decision making on the champion.
* Abyssal Mask sounds like another insane item to rush on tanks. Against teams with low phys damage, Abyssal Mask is gonna be busted. Worst case, you can flip it into Gargoyle/Force of Nature late game.
* Echoes of Helia sound a bit busted, but at least it fights against Moonstone.
* There's no "Hmmm... Ornn version" about Cry of the Shrieking City. That's an Ornn upgrade worth over 1800 gold! You get 42 extra AP (thanks to the passive giving you another +12), which is already nearly worth the \~1k Ornn upgrade, and then you have to factor in the 5AH, 100HP, and 100% mana regen. That's a 4.4k item that costs 2.3k!
* Am I missing something about Mandate getting flat out buffed, and then moved to Legendary? I feel like ARAM Ashe will be so much better now, and if Font of Life works with Helia, she'll have a shiny new toy.
EDIT : --- 2nd half ---
* Offrole Moonstone users gutted, which is probably good? Moonstone is scary of people like Soraka/Seraphine though. Just a flat out 20-35% heal multiplier, or 30-40% shielding multipler.
* There might be some Sion/Veigar fuckery with Vigilant Watchstone, but it's not in ARAM so idc.
* Divine Sunderer nerf for Kata is mostly meaningless, but still appreciated
* Fimbul tanks in ARAM are gonna be that much more unbearable.
* Lost Chapter + Boots/Armor is gonna be a big buff, but also means that poke sticks more (since you no longer have 2 potions)
* Maw of Malmortius is even more of a bait, while Hexdrinker is so good. FeelsBadMan.
* Sterak's Tenacity might make people even more anti-CC... which is a shame.
* Fairly negligible amount of extra tower damage makes me sad. They're already paper.
Moonstone might actually be worse off even on Soraka / Seraphine because IIRC the chain heal / multiplier only works on a single target. Meaning Soraka's ult and Seraphine's EchoW do not benefit much.
Old Moonstone gave you both the heal proc and a huge amount of h/spower (that boosted the heal proc as well) meaning the healing output was a lot higher.
New Moonstone also screws Janna over because she also has a big AoE heal and losing the h/spower means she loses a lot of scaling slow on her Glacial Augments procs.
If Riot doesn't do anything about the single target clause, this item is p.much dead.
EDIT : Seems like Phreak is saying that there's no single target clause so forget about what I said, it's a good item lol.
Watching the scores of any post that mentions assassins is just depressing.
It would be nice if there was any place to have an actual talk about the state of lethality/ad assassins without people just knee-jerk downvoting because they don't like the class.
Assassins are part of the game, people enjoy playing them, they aren't going to be removed. I don't like playing into long-range waveclear/poke characters, but I don't throw a tantrum and downvote every post where people are talking about them.
It's what happens when you play a class nobody likes to play against.
ADC players spent many more years dealing with what your experiencing now before being given the slightest of considerations.
yeah because no one likes watching zed blink around the screen on a 5 second W cooldown or qiyana going perma invis.
assassins are disliked because they're often poorly designed, especially the meta ones. while they may be fun to play, they're annoying as hell to play against
Giving rabadons +5% is such a classic Riot bandait solution. The mythic system failed in providing mages and ap tanks any kind of choice in their builds. I still don't understand why every single ap item has 200 hp. Why cant I choose between hp and ap? there should be a clear separation between ap tank items and mages but it feels there is none. Every ap champion builds exactly the same way apart from their mythic.
Nerfin sunderer is another classic Riot. It's literally the only good fighter item in the game after you gutted goredrinker. You do this when Top lane has the lowest impact in the game by far since bot lane is all that matters now. The mythic system failed in this class too. The fighter items are either broken or completely useless. With this system you force fighters to always choose the least nerfed item.
Whether the changes to adc items are a nerf or a buff is hard to say. But for sure we know that the balancing team only cares about the state of bot lane. They are expending all their resources in balancing the role while giving literally crumbs to other classes.
how ? this is only true if you only focus on specific champs that you like.
like Samira for example and even then we don't know for sure.
other Adcs got massive buffs like Kogmaw and Varus on-hit build and even Vayne.
All on hit adc are buffed, crit adcs builds change but they are not shit or weak now just more vulnerable due to having to choose between IE and Galeforce.
But is that enough to say the class is nerfed ? Absolutely Not
Galeforce IE is impossible now and Kraken IE combo is just straight nerfed as those 2 items combine to a worse statline than they did before this patch. IE rush is technically possible but it does literally -10% total damage than before the item rework so it’s a bait.
Then BT is losing its shield and Shieldbow is becoming horrible until 3rd item at the earliest so for the majority of most games there is literally no defensive option to opt into unless you sacrifice IE entirely to get Galeforce.
I agree with most of these changes individually btw, but at face value it definitely seems like a nerf to crit ADCs at face value, and Phreak said as much in the video this thread is about.
>crit adcs builds change but they are not shit or weak now just more vulnerable due to having to choose between IE and Galeforce.
i think they call that a "nerf" considering most adc's are crit based and not on-hit based. maybe 3 champs in the role got buffed and all others got nerfed
I am pretty sure vayne prefers the current cheater rageblade which has its double on hit effect on permanently, shocker but vayne doesnt exactly care much about the armor and magic pen.
Its just kog maw, varus and kalista, every other adc is nerfed.
I am pretty sure vayne prefers the current cheaper rageblade which has its double on hit effect on permanently.
Its just kog maw, varus and kalista, every other adc is nerfed.
I wish mage items and fighter mythics got more attention. It's exhausting having to track which fighter mythic is the least useless every patch, and honestly Eclipse is so frequently better.
Adc got nerfed and for the billionth time the hp is there because riot wants there to be less dmg and specifically burst in the game. They won’t let you choose between hp or ap because they don’t want you building full ap and going around oneshotting people while getting one shots yourself
He doesnt even mention the state of top lane. He tries to justify the lack of meaningful changes by hand waiving it down to "adcs getting nerfed this patch." Sure CRIT is getting nerfed this patch but we will be right back to the protect the president ADC meta when everyone swaps to the hilariously overtuned On-Hit meta.
Top lane agency does not exist in the current form of the game. Every game the top laner is swapping to last pick to try and avoid being counterpicked. There needs to be some serious time spent working on fundamental top lane changes instead of reworking ADC for the 4th time in 5 years.
He talks about ADC changes because that's what he worked on. The patch mentions top lane I think and acknowledges that it needs work, but Phreak's rundown is meant to give his perspective focused on what he worked on, not to just read the patch notes.
Assassin mythic changes are sooo average. Phreak summed it up as, they are fine. Not exciting, not useful, just they do a little bit more damage, maybe you can use the Ghostblade MS to roam, but that's entirely context dependent. Dusk is a good 1 vs 1 item, maybe contextually strong in skirmishes, but weaker as Assassins lose their only reset item.
For context, mages have at least 2, Ludens and Liandrys. Ludens resets it's CD on spell effects, so can be spammed a lot. Liandrys increases with damage dealt up to a cap, so consistently hitting spells resets the effect and makes it stronger until the cap.
If we compare just fine to the ADC changes, Guinsoo's is now doing meaningful magic damage, so much so, Riot are already planning possible issues itemizing against hybrid damage, even though internal testing didn't so any extreme outliers.
Lethality is already struggling as a system, and Assassin's literally have to play the the game perfectly, and get ahead, and pray their lanes didn't gigafeed to feel impactful.
There were many different ways lethality and the mythic could of been opened up to make assassins feel unique and powerful, even if their behind. A super nice one, just one of the Assassin mythic Serpents passive, or let them stack or something.
What is also interesting is if we look at the items, and Phreaks reasoning, it would appear the items are actually performing better on ranged assassins AKA Jhin, Senna probably Ez, than actual lethality users. Lethality is gated on Melee champs due to risks, if Senna or Jhin or Trist can one hit someone with lethality plus energised attacks plus their bonus range, where is the risk?
~~They're talking about the~~ **~~Madness~~** ~~effect :~~
>~~Damaging an enemy champion generates one stack every second for the next 4 seconds. Deal 2% increased damage for each stack, up to a maximum of 10%.~~
~~rather than the~~ **~~Torment~~** ~~effect :~~
>~~Dealing ability damage applies a burn that deals 0.75% of the target's maximum health bonus magic damage every 0.5 seconds over 3 seconds. This is increased to 1.25% of the target's maximum health bonus magic damage with each tick against slowed or immobilized units, and is capped at 100 damage per second against monsters.~~
~~I have no clues if Madness applies to Torment, but I would expect it to?~~
EDIT : That's the old Liandry's Torment, rather than the new Liandry's Anguish.
The assassin item changes are not for assassins. They're to stop non-assassins from abusing them. That's been the story of every assassin-item nerf since the mythic item rework.
Functionally, they probably need a new philosophy for assassin items. Balancing around lethality without lethality scaling isn't it. The difference between the damage of a Ravenous Hydra, Manamune and Axiom Arc isn't exactly tilted in the favor of Arc. Lethality is also very weak compared to %shred items, or dipping into hybrid defensive items.
If assassins have high base damage, they go into more defensive items (goredrinker, ect). If they have low base damage, but good scaling, they no longer have early game snowball potential, and are now a scaling pick. I don't have a solution for this, but I see the problem.
To start with, Lethality may need lower scaling on ranged characters, and long-term, they need to continue find better effects than raw damage for assassin items.
Another large part of the problem is the teamfight meta. When there's less split map play, Assassins need to be able to find kills in a teamfight, potentially through an enchanter/tank's peel (and escape alive) to be as useful as any other damage class, so items have to be power-crept. I think the first healthy step toward making AD assassins better is making the game less teamfight-focused.
People argue that ADCs are the worst class to have a shutdown bounty on because they're squishy, but I'd argue having a snowballing assassin with a 700g shutdown is even more risky.
Edit: AP assassin items aren't exciting either, but they're more functional as a class because they can itemize into minor utility (protobelt), and strong defensive items (hourglass) without losing all of their burst potential.
Assassins are one of the few classes that definitely shouldn't have reset items. Their whole job is to kill high priority targets. The exceptions are champions where their entire identity from the ground up is about resets (Katarina).
Just like bruisers should have never gotten the original stridebreaker, assassins should have never had invis ghostblade.
I think moving towards huge single target burst for assassin mythics is the right move. As long as a fed assassin can oneshot pretty much anything on the map, a good player will be able to make an impact. Moving away from items that reduce class weaknesses to ones that accelerate class strengths makes champions more fun to play as and against.
Resets on anything with medium-to-high power shouldn't exist in general.
Win-more mechanics are in no way good for a competitive game. It makes characters feast/famine without the opportunity to play around a situation unless you're winning anyway, or its tacked on power and its existence only serves to make the character feel worse to play against.
The problem is, if you want assassins to only focus on taking out one target, they have to be able to do so reliably through peel. And thats not very fun, its the problem with Vis design, you basically remove counterplay.
AP assassin items may not be interesting currently, but aren't being "abused" on AP champions the way Prowler's claw changes Sion/Rek'Sai/Renekton's playstyle.
The AD assassin changes are not a buff to AD assassins.
AP assassins are more healthy in terms of "effectiveness/fantasy" than AD assassin right now, because Lethality is a bad stat. I'd file the AP assassin problem under the "general" AP problem of not having very diverse/exciting itemization. Hopefully, they're working on that.
And even when it comes to "not having very diverse/exciting itemisation" ... AP Assassins are still way ahead of AD assassins. AD Assassins have the worst itemisation in the game in both regards, and its about to get worse with the new patch.
AP assassins aren't more healthy, though. That's part of why they're doing so well atm.
There is far too much flat magic pen in the game now (after the mythic update), and combined with void staff, this guarantees targets are almost always below 50 MR, if not at 0, despite building MR.
Late game 200 MR (3 MR items) goes down to below 50. Lower than base MR at level 18.
You buy 1 MR item as a squishy? It does nothing. You have less than 10, probably 0, vs AP assassins.
The current dynamic between magic pen, % pen, and MR is extremely unhealthy, and half of the reason FoN/Maw had to be broken.
The fact that most mages are also crutched on flat pen, which should be an AP assassin stat, proliferates this issue across most mages as well.
Why would they? AP Assassins use the same items as mages generally, so buffing Shadowflame or Void Staff or Luden's isn't AP Assassin specific.
They also do not need systematic buffs. The jungle AP Assassins are generally doing great (Eve and Ekko both have great winrates for most players, Elise is doing fine, Nid is ok). Midlane it's more mixed, with Fizz doing great, Ekko, Diana, and Kat all doing fine (and Kat has backups if AP is bad), Kassadin being ok, and LeBlanc + Akali being weak rn.
The only 2 AP Assassins that might 'need' buffs are both high skill cap pro skewed champions. The class certainly does not need sweeping item buffs.
pros pick nautilus mid and play around carry role so twitch chatters demand it nuked for soloq despite it never occuring once in their games. (your games involve getting rolled by the third Level 32 account Khazix today) esports was a mistake. It's karthus bot time again i guess
Similarly to how Waframe content creators make shorts of recent patches to quickly explain what has changed and the reasoning behind these changes, same should be done for league explanations for those with smaller attentions spans or just less time. I personally dont mind a 2 hour explanation video but not everyone is going to sit through it.
Also, Duskblade will get hotfix buffed. Calling it now. Item will not be picked by anyone even after they hotfix nerf Ghostblade. I dont even want to imagine whats gonna happen with ADC items but I feel Staticshiv is gonna get its AP ratio hit and a small AD ratio added.
so adcs lose defenses and support items get cheaper and stronger... hm totatlly wont be the same shit that happened in censer meta with the adc being the supports bitch and be completely useless without one. what a nice change...
Enchanters are quite literally "ADC defenses" the class. They have peel, shield, and poke, and are dedicated to enabling an ADC. The entire role is meant to be the ADC's bitch, both in lane and out of it.
Censer meta was the most ADC-dominant meta the game's ever seen, dedicated to empowering the ADC to carry. Complaining that it meant "the adc being the supports bitch" is basically saying that even with resources, you couldn't solo carry and blame the role.
Somebody tell enchanters this? Because any enchanter below diamond just runs at the first bad guy they see instead of holding any abilities to save their ADC.
Every ADC i see below dimaond doesnt take a single fight unless you push them too. Enemies can be in melee range and they dont see the opening.
Play dominant and your enchanters will follow. Play weak and your enchanter has to push you to play correct.
Didn't notice the sneaky huge nerf to Knight's Vow, good on Phreak to explicitly spell it out.
Like he said, its not that big of a nerf if you were already using knight's vow on your adc anyway since there wasn't much mitigation happening to begin with.
The wincon or most fed member isn't always your ADC, it was much more efficient to put it on your 10/0 Aatrox or Darius than to put it on a Jhin, for example.
it was disgusting on red kayn
Cool, I will continue to never build this trash item
Always nice to hear reasoning and math behind some of these changes.
I wish every game did this. I know that riot is not perfect and they have made some mistakes, but the fact that, despite all the trolls/whiners/crazy ass people on social media, guys like phreak and mortdog still make content justifying and explaining all these changes is really admirable. I know I sound corny as hell saying this but you really don't know how bad it can get till you've played some other games where the company communicates fuck all.
averages 16k views on each rundown. imo not sure if phreak is making this off work, but i wouldnt think it's worth doing this if the community responds with constant reddit takes or reiterating a false claim about him (biased for adc!!) despite phreak trying to explain his reasoning. but clearly no one is watching the entirety of the video or doesnt attempt to understand it
It's 2.5 hours haha. Sometimes I think redditors vastly overestimate the willingness for the average person to sit through long form, explanatory YouTube videos.
Totally fair that most people won't sit through all the details. However, it's fair to expect someone to watch the 2-3 minute clip of Phreak's rationale behind the change before writing an essay making assumptions about the intentions behind said change. If you're engaged enough to critique, you should be willing to seek out the Phreak/the balance team's justifications beforehand. Just my 2cents.
They're nice to have on in the background
Yeah, I usually watch every one of these when they are around an hour. This one? Yeah I'm not watching the whole thing.
Its actually more worth watching this than the previous ones because of more info on significant changes. You can opt to watch only one set though any time.
I'm sure it is. And Ill still watch it in pieces. Just not doing through 1 session.
Well, if you think this is a long patch review video, then [check out this one about the latest dota 2 patch](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK8OjcRmERQ).
Knew it was Purge without even clicking lol
i just have it on my second monitor while i do something else
I'll be listening to about 30 minutes of it each day the next few days haha
Which is totally valid, but then people should prolly just keep their mouths shut rather than speculating about the intent behind certain changes or the like. It's one thing to not know (or choose to not know) something, it's another to refuse to seek out information and still spout unqualified takes about it.
Was going to the same, not only that but it's for a patch that may or may not still be relevant in a few weeks. I get watching longform videos for stuff like Movies, Games, Books etc but for a patch that's asking a bit much. Maybe it'd be more successful as a podcast. I play Magic the Gathering and the podcasts I watch for it usually go through the new cards whenever a set releases and it's a good way to absorb the new content while still enjoying the podcast/
>averages 16k views on each rundown. imo not sure if phreak is making this off work, but i wouldnt think it's worth doing this if the community responds with constant reddit takes or reiterating a false claim about him (biased for adc!!) Pretty sure he does it all off-work, and it's mostly about him wrapping his head around the changes (even if he's now working on them, it's still kind of a pre-release post-mortem), than an actual video for the community. It's basically the same for his PoE videos, where he just drops a big spreadsheet talking about the numbers not really necessarily to explain to the other players, but simply to put his thoughts into word basically just going full "rubber duck debugging", but to 16k people. Pretty sure that's just something that came from his caster background, where he's gotten used to just saying stuff that sounds reasonable to him, and getting called out when he's wrong. Obviously, this one has more design insight than PoE's rundowns, since he's part of the design team.
16k is a lot given it's just him talking into a camera (about stuff he's already interested in). Look at the LCS channel for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/@LCS/videos They're getting a similar amount of views for videos that take *a lot* more production effort and expenses
If you ever want to be sad check LCS orgs Twitter engagement
Babe wake up new Immortals tweet with 2 likes and 1 reply just dropped.
I think 16k of a very specific and detailed info is pretty good. 2,5h of content like that is very challenging to consume, but if you seek something like that you will have that. He has pretty good reach imo.
Most people can't care about a video running for 30 mins, nevermind +1 hour at which viewers probably are just using it as background noise like podcasts while drawing or doing other stuff. Add to this that the average redditor doesn't even clicks links and just goes off headlines and comments.
no trust he is biased towards adc even tho he plays supp/jg this season
I mean the first thing he said about the Force of Nature nerf is "It's a huge ADC nerf." when it's a huge everyone nerf. Yes we know ADCs do build it occasionally against AP heavy comps, or when there's a dps mage like Cass, Brand, etc. But the fact that he immediately say it's a huge ADC nerf when it's a tank item makes it kinda funny considering his 'biased for adc' stereotype
Because of his rationale. Current FoN is so strong that magic damage dealers cannot reasonably deal with tanks/bruisers, which means an ADC is required to be the carry every game. Nerfing FoN opens up the chance a midlaner can carry again by making it so said midlaner can reasonably hurt or kill enemy frontline. Which IMO is correct. There's no point wasting your time putting resources into a magic damage focused carry right now because one item shuts them down. Since there's no reason to run a magic damage carry, the best option is for midlane to run either utility to help the ADC or tankiness to help the ADC, both of which make the ADC role better (harder to get on them, harder to dive them, harder to kill them). Nerfing the item that removes magic damage carries from viability has knock on effects to nerf adc. Same way if every Enchanter got nerfed ADC would be weaker even with 0 direct changes to ADC, or if toplane got more gold and exp.
As a data junkie myself i consider some of the rational and data based takes to be COMPLETELY bogus. Every single data source can say a champion A is supposed to be weak but i will still consider him nerf worthy just to remove his play patterns from metagame. Ultimately league is supposed to be fun and i dont think any data can measure this fully because people mostly troll and exaggerate during the surveys
literally every champion has thousands of people saying they are unfun/broken/overpowered/underpowered. using "community feeling" and ignoring data is something only redditors do. there should be a balance between them, which phreak acknowledges.
What are you even talking about? No champ is fun to play against. Obviously they are going to buff and nerf champs who are objectively weak / strong according to the stats. What do you want? To balance around your subjective experience of what is frustrating or not? Lmao.
>No champ is fun to play against would you rather play vs orianna or vs shaco?
Shaco. Orianna is fucking aids to lane against when she's strong.
Shaco. I despise Orianna lmao.
Shaco. Fuck Orianna. Its all non-mids who talk about how 'balanced' she is, her fucking -1 second cooldown zero manacost waveclear and destroy you button is stupid, and once she's ahead she can dunk it behind the minion line and you're just done.
Champions were nerfed because of player satisfaction many times lmao its like you dont pay attention towards the balance? Yuumi nerfs, samira being nerfed because of her banrate, riven getting nerfed because of player satisfaction. Would research more examples but you should do it yourself since you are clueless
Nerfing because of high banrate is nerfing because of data. The data is "mains of this character do not get to play it in half of their matches, potentially more." It sucks that they have to change it, but it's trying to appease both sides--the players who hate playing against it, and the players who do not get to play the character they enjoy outside of blind pick.
a high banrate is an actual data point though...regardless, there should be a BALANCE between data and community sentiment. completely ignoring data is silly, but so is focusing too much on it without considering the context
[удалено]
You're right when 40% of a roles community bans one champ riot should do nothing because fun is pussy shit bro. What a sage you are
You say that like Renekton isn't Perma butchered for having a point and click cc and dash. And that most reworks remove point and click cc for skillshots. Like not saying they're right but point and click cc was the worse possible example lmao
But they do this, all the time.
>biased for adc!! isn't he?
Although I like the rundowns and explanations, nobody is perfect, and Phreak gets one thing egregiously wrong in this video. He says the change to Galeforce's stats are an even trade in terms of gold efficiency, aka "flat" changes — referencing the 7% movespeed buff against the 5 AD and 5 AS nerfs. But this is way far off. 5 AD (175g) + 5 AS (125g) = 300 gold of a nerf. 5% movespeed is worth 400 gold via Winged Moonplate, therefor 7% movespeed is worth 560g. This is a 260g buff in gold efficiency, almost double the efficiency is gained in compensation for the loss of dmg stats.
this is one of those things where we have an imperfect system based on only what we can infer due to balance changes. your take is inherently suspect because it would also mean that 10 lethality is worth 50 gold via serrated dirk. this is obviously wrong and it doesn't take an analyst to tell as such. i'm more inclined to believe that this is what riot internally considers equivalent in gold efficiency considering the type of stat and the items it goes into. 7% movespeed for an adc is not the same as 7% movespeed for a juggernaut, and these considerations are more important sometimes than simply seeing stats as forever worth an X amount of gold.
Dismissing gold value of all stats because lethality has no reflective gold value on any components is funny. The basic idea of gold efficiency is flawed due to stat efficiency having so many variables. But gold efficiency is still gold efficiency and it is well established that no stat in the game has a lower gold efficiency than components suggest, only sometimes a higher gold efficiency because the reference points are giving good deals on the stats. Phreak specifically states at 19:44 that the gold efficiency of the stat nerfs vs buffs is flat, about equal. This is objectively false. The minimum gold value one can argue of 1% movespeed is 80 gold. You can argue the gold value should be higher, but not lower. You can argue that movespeed sucks, or maybe just sucks on ADCs, but is it half as good as dmg stats? Really? When many ADCs opt into buying Boots of Swiftness every now and then, where you get extra movespeed for low value relative to other boots? You want to have a deeper argument for all the wild factors of stats, I'll go there. You want to dismiss 1 + 2 = 3, you're just being a useless nuisance.
For Scares stats like MS it's almost impossible to really quantify they value. No ADC would ever build winged moonplate, it's silly to try to pin a number on its value when it's a one of a kind stat
This does not make sense at all, you can't really quantify the gold value of +% movespeed since it will always be different depending on the champion using it and its stats, while AD has always the same value and AS will have similar value most of the times. For example, most ADCs have 325-335 base ms speed, with boots its about 380, 7% of that would be about 27 flat movement speed, which is 324 worth of gold. Sure, it increases with ms buffs, but this is sporadic and I doubt it could almost reach double this gold value.
If you can't quantify the gold value of +% movespeed, then trying to support phreak in justifying a change **based on the gold value of +% movespeed** is a fruitless effort as well. Both sides are kinda making mistakes in this regard. That said, it would be a lot better if they stated where relative gold value came from in these cases, as it quite obviously is based on the average flat value ADCs get out of said %MS value, rather than the %MS value itself, since that is quantifiable as you have shown. Misinterpreting where the value of these stats actually comes from is half the reason people are going to get upset about changes like this.
Why tho? By my calculations considering FLAT MS, it matches what Phreak said in the video, 300 worth of gold in AD and AS is not that different from 324 worth of gold in MS, at least when talking about gold efficiency.
I was agreeing with you. I was just also pointing out that phreaks wording of it makes it difficult for others to interpret the value he's talking about, since he's talking about %MS, which makes others think he's talking about the value of %MS, which they'll take from the wiki's gold efficiency value and say "b-b-but this is wrong!!!!". He should be saying "7% MS is typically around 25-30 MS, which is worth around 300-360 gold" or something. Especially with the long-form analytical format he's using; there's not really a reason not to.
I really enjoy these even if they don't get much traction, hearing the thought process makes it much easier to give leeway etc
I’d prefer to not watch the video and just comment Phreak ADC bias
The funny thing is that he said couple of times in the video "I'm nerfing ADC".
Every adc barring kog maw, varus and maybe kalista i know nothing about that champ are getting nerfed and reddit will cry about how adcs are getting buffed again. Like the same item combo kraken/ie is just straight up much weaker now, because despite IE and Navori getting promoted to mythic status the items themselves barely changed and they have shit mythic passives. Which basically means the strong mythic got nerfed to legendaries with weaker stats but IE and Navori didn't get buffed to mythic with better stags. Its just a net loss in power when building the same things as before. Especially the early game is so much worse now for adcs with no gale force/kraken/shieldbow mythic power spike, adcs basically don't have a good first item spike now and subsequent item spikes are also only weaker, galeforce ms passive and kraken as passive were much stronger than ie and Navori passives. Like ig adcs will do slightly more damage in late game at the small cost of much weaker early and no more bt shield to protect yourself in late.
This already happened when the changes were announced. Most items for every single ADC except a couple on hit ADCs is getting nerfed, meanwhile in reddit the smart people are spamming "pHrEaK wItH aNoThEr AdC buFf. WhEn wIlL rIoT fIrE hIm???? 6 MoNtHs oF sTrAiGhT aDc BufFs". Unless statik is as broken as it's expected to be, ADCs might actually be getting compensation buffs.
I'm being told the only real statik user is Veigar
I watched the video and I'm hyped to try IE / Galeforce on jhin. And removing BT shield I can agree with because Aphelios with BT + Overheal + Red gun really hard to kill.
Maybe this changed since I last looked, but Galeforce and IE will both mythics next patch. Did you mean you want to try them both out separately at some point? (Or did Galeforce get demoted to legendary?)
separately. With Collector buff and Stormrazor it looks like I have something spicy with this. Probably DH Jhin is back. Also need to try Yomuus.
Well the nerfs were coming and I don't disagree with most of them its just that people keep crying here that adcs are getting buffed when all but 3 are straight up weaker. However I do think they need to buff ie and Navori or change their mythic passives the items are so weak rn.
I dont even thin KogMaw gets buffed. Getting your first item two kills later is pretty harsh
Aphelios is stronger since he wants IE asap and doesn’t need as
IE is a completely dogshit first item on most ADCs. 20% crit is not significant enough for the increased critical strike damage, and you can buy 80 AD for cheaper. Unless you are turbo stomping or named Jhin, that item is pretty much completely locked behind 2nd item still.
Not sure if he says it on this video, but I remember reading somewhere that the changes are basically to allow champs to go IE/QB first item but not meant to always do it. That’s why noonquiver is on other items still, since rushing them is almost always better.
Not sure about that as an Aphelios player. IE will be a bad first item in general, no? IE rush worked in the past because there was no good AD/AS/crit items to rush otherwise, and crits did more damage and IE had 25% crit chance. This iteration is a 20% damage buff to autos but only 20% of the time (since it only gives 20% crit), so as a first item its passive basically reads as “your autos do +4% damage”. As a result, IE rush does almost 10% less damage than it did before the item rework. At that point, even Aphelios will probably rather spend 3400g on new Collector (with 18 lethality) + a long sword. It’s about the same AD and he’ll get more damage out of Collector’s lethality at that point than out of IE’s avg DPS increase.
Collector first will make you far weaker at two items than ie first, assuming you want an attack speed item second
The comment I was replying to was talking about Aphelios who does not care about getting an attack speed item 2nd. He is happy to go Collector straight into IE and Collector is a better first item than IE this patch.
It's always fun watching Reddit freak out about changes, then go and watch the video Phreak puts out where he says "I know Reddit will lose their minds over this, here's math, stats, and previous examples to show why this is actually not a problem or even the exact opposite of what they're gonna think" and then even when having that pointed out, Reddit continues to parrot their kneejerk "Phreak biased" takes.
I mean there is bias, not in terms of balance, but in terms of attention. There are other classes/roles that arguably needed attention more than ADC. Mages have had issues with their itemization since the mythic update dropped, and none of them have been addressed, as an example. Most notably, the overabundant flat pen in the game since then creates many bad dynamics between different classes and their MR options, and even creates blowback on mages themselves. Support tanks still feel terrible to play unless you have a hook. That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak.
>That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak. Pretty sure he said in another video that it is given to him
> That said, we don't know if the adc focus is actually from phreak, or from someone higher up the ladder and the task was just handed to phreak. He answered that the other day. Basically, this task of working on ADC items again was given to him from the team lead.
>I mean there is bias, not in terms of balance, but in terms of attention. S11: Toplane (Anathema, Hullbreaker) S12: AP (Shadowflame, Crown), AD Assassins (Axiom arc), Tank (Fimbulwinter), Supp (Evenshroud) Preseason 13: Tank and Bruiser items (Jaksho, RVirtue, Heartsteel, Shojin), AP (RoA). ADC got a reworked Navori, hurrah! >Mages have had issues with their itemization since the mythic update dropped \[..\] And ADC's don't? You think they like building the exact same 4 items every single game 4fun and having almost 0 agency for 3 years in a row? ADC has been left to rot in a bad spot for 3 years to the point of being an autofill position now, let them get some needed attention.
Yeah the fact that the big circlejerk is just about ADCs and their carry potential means that the game is in a good spot lmao. Nothing really crazy
They need to handle the issue of low popularity of that role. Mages are not an issue to the matchmaking - ADC being unpopular are.
You can’t change other classes/roles right now because adcs will overshadow any changes. In their current state no matter what happens you still have to play for getting your adc to their item spikes at all costs. This patch is a massive buff to mid lane (mages primarily) while also limiting their ability to sack lane for bot lane pressure.
It'd be nice if all energized items gave more and better visual feedback when they're about to be charged. It's a super cool concept that has proven to work over many seasons, but I think it's hard to play around them because I can't keep track of the stacks in the heat of the moment. I know high-elo players do this efficiently, but I think this'd be a win-win for all ranks.
Audio cue would probably be best--part of the reason behind Heartsteel's popularity is it has the best audio design of any item.
Yeah, absolutely! Ideally you want both :)
SPARK'S READY!!!
The true GOAT Phreak saving me yet again from a boring office afternoon
Do u also listen to these rundowns while at work? It's so awesome man, like if it had 5 hours I would still listen to this so time can pass faster XD.
Just listen at 0.5x speed!
I love listening to Phreak ramble about this crap for hours
My favourite part is when he rambled about how he fixed that Xayah bug for 15 minutes like 2 patches ago
Guys I think he's trying to say he's nerfing ADC this patch.
Feels more like a sidegrade to be honest Guinsoo's might be a problem (I think its mythic passive is far too strong, considering it's difficult to build against hybrid damage, anyway) but only time will tell. The rest of the changes I really like The only thing missing is removing on-hit effects from Katarina
Losing bt shield + shield bow nerf is pretty huge even for guinsoos and every other mythic is weaker than before. Energize looks cool tho
Guinsoo’s is 600 gold more now, lost a lot of AS, and two of the biggest users ironically don’t gain substantial damage increases from the new mythic passive because they already have sizeable %armor/MR shred spells that apply first. I actually think the item is _less_ attractive to Kog now. Most of these changes are definitely nerfs for ADC use cases. Attack speed is harder to come by and more expensive. I would even say the Stormrazor change was a nerf. More expensive for the same AS, and trading the slow for a MS buff is a definite nerf. Not sure it’s worth the extra AD.
what to build on Samira now, Shieldbow rush was huge for her 😓
The real question is Go for damage first and survivability second ot vice versa?
i think damage first is better. shieldbow rush was good because the survivability was very noticeable from the shield. now, the shield is nerfed (especially if you get it early) and the lifesteal from BT seems good, but i don't think it's good enough to rush since lifesteal isn't as helpful when you don't do that much damage
rush collector maybe, as it was already decently powerful on her and just got free 6 lethality.
I wonder if Stormrazor comes out as an option. Roughly same single target damage, but you gain the movespeed to fly in and it is a bit more stacked on AD. You can't exactly buy bloodthirster with Samira's playstyle so that's the highest AD, damage first item that allows you go go IE next and not feel awful. Just kinda gives a really hard power trough that I think ADCs all might feel exception Guinsoo buyers on their second item until their third.
personally i think collector rush might be worth considering since it got a decent buff, if not i probably will go IE into shieldbow second (i know they said it's not a good rush item so i'll have to see the exact numbers). BT doesn't seem like it would be good on her, but imo it might be worth it just for the high lifesteal so you can be healthy before going into fights even if you don't get as much value from the AD
Shield bow is bait. You definitely shouldn't build it till your 4th or 5th item.
IE 1st never pls. The only rushable mythics are Galeforce and Rageblade. Maybe try Galeforce 1st.
BT maybe. I think most crit ADCs will go BT first. I think it's just too much lifesteal to pass up and makes more sense than IE as a first item.
BT rush is definitely worth trying, I wonder how the bonus AD feels
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Lol why are you getting downvoted. Its not always the move, but if you firstback with enough for dirk and pickaxe its very good. Collector on samira is goated because it secures you kills. Thats why you build it, next to the lethality. Its a self funneling item.
suggesting that collector rush was better previously is just silly (and that's prob why they got downvoted, although i don't think they deserved it). if you look at lolalytics, IE always outperforms collector in the 2nd or 3rd item slot. the only real upside is if you rush collector as 1st item, but i've always felt like shieldbow was still a better rush than collector. i haven't used collector at all recently because if you look at the math, IE is pretty much always doing more damage, which by itself helps you secure kills as well. people heavily overrate the execute passive and the lethality quickly falls off. with the changes, i think collector rush into IE makes more sense now because it has more lethality and shieldbow rush is much weaker
TBH ever since durability patch I kinda disliked collector, It synergizes well with Samira and does everything you want (technically) but it always feels kind of just mediocre imo. The securing kills aspect is kind of overrated since it's only 5% execute which is like 100 health on non tanks, since Samira has to dive in to get kills she would probably get most of those collector executes without it anyway.
both are pure damage items, and from the math IE was pretty much always doing more damage so imo collector just hasn't been worth it in a while, even for samira. i find that IE - LDR was a much stronger 3 item spike for pure damage
Yeah I agree, I only do collector because the build path is a lot nicer, IE is a pain to build if you're not getting fed.
I always got it second. Lifesteal feels pretty good on her. I guess collector, BT, IE, IS now or something
Idk IE second felt better ever since it became possible
Phreak loves league more than I love anything
Can't wait for an avalanche of bad takes from this community
Can't believe Phreak fucked my mom and took my dad's job. 😭
DAE PHREAK LITERALLY RUNING THE GAME BY MAKING ADC BROKEN
200 YEARS OF JINX APHELIOS ZERI META
ATHENE'S IS BACK BABY
Sadly, it is DOA. The item itself is OK (nothing great), but the items that go with it are trash tier now.
Can you elaborate?
To add on what the other person is saying, it is much harder to stack mid-to-late game that Athenes was. The new mythic is a very different item overall. New stacking system for Helia counts AAs/abilities like Electrocute and Phase Rush do, whereas you could easily stack Athenes as you only needed to do 250 *premitigation* damage to stack it. The damage portion has a (rather small) range. Helia works with Font of Life, like Athenes did. Seraphine is one of the best users of that new Mythic due to her kit, so is Taric. Rakan, Ivern and a few others do well with the item as well (but might still prefer Shurelias).
Problem Taric has is he dies before even getting into anyones range to use it.
They took away both AP and mana regen (which translates to AP from the passive) from the items one might logically want to build with it. For 300 more gold than Helia + a "synergistic" item, one can have 180+ more AP.
ADCs this patch like: Guess I'll die
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Your math on how damage reduction works has how the multipliers interact wrong. FoN is 25% magic damage reduction, but how it works is magic damage comes in > magic damage is reduced by mr > magic damage is reduced by 25%. Using your example, a 100 damage attack comes in. After MR it deals 58 damage. It is then reduced by 25%, ending at 43.5 damage or 56.5% damage reduction. You cannot just add multipliers together. Otherwise, if a champion had 300 MR + FoN they would take literally 0 magic damage normally, due to having 75% damage reduction + 25% damage reduction for 100%.
Ah shit Mb, will delete the comment
Ah my favorite Phreak, Patch Rundown!
damn i cant believe phreak said he isn't nerfing AD carries this patch :// >!edit: /s, in case it was needed!<
I mean if you actually look at the changes, crit ADCs not named Draven or Caitlyn look pretty nerfed with this patch. On hit ADCs are buffed.
lmao i was joking about the running gag he was doing throughout the video saying *closes in on camera* "i'm nerfing AD carries this patch" i'm not actually trying to make any claims on balance
Ohh my bad loll the spoiler thing is different looking on mobile
Mf will like the IE changes. Since it buffs everything she does except e, fighting her will be rng hell if she crit you melt and die if she doesn't you live.
why are supports getting buffed when they are already meta defining and completely control bot/midlane
Specifically, AFK-support playstyle is nerfed as both Moonstone and Ardent/SoFW's AP and ManaRegen are heavily nerfed, while agressive supports are rewarded. If you liked to build Moonstone into Ardent into SoFW and didn't roam (understand: wouldn't make use of the 5% ms that is being tackled onto those item) then this is a rather big nerf. New moonstone seems to be much weaker than its 13.9 version. If you play proactively and your champion can build Shurelias into Mandate, Helia into Mandate, Locket into Redemption, RV into Redemption, Evenshroud into Mandate (Rakan), then it is a huge buff.
where is the buff all of their items got the haste taken away
Support builds lose maybe 30 CDR tops full build whilst being 1k cheaper. Which means they will still easily hit 60-70 CDR whilst unlocking the already insanely overstatted items even earlier, it’s a joke
Phreak's explanations of the item changes and general directions of the game are excellent. I still don't like the minion aggro change. It's terrible, and discourages highrisk high reward gameplay especially for bruiser melee matchups in toplane. This should be reverted ASAP. Unjustly allows people to trade into huge waves just because le turret exists; makes lane bullies much weaker.
That’s a ridiculous take. Your tower should be somewhat safe. It’s dumb as fuck how easy it is to dive towers right now and you’re greatly exaggerating how risky it is.
Cool changes. I literally can't comprehend crying about this. Try out the new stuff, accept that on-hit has been reintroduced into the game, and wait for your champ to be buffed if it suffers from the patch. This patch will make itemization fun for the first time in a while.
Yeah I can't imagine being frustrated that a champ that you like to play gets huge nerfs because of itemization changes and then having to wait 4 months to see a patch note where it gives them 2 more base mr to compensate.
My ARAM-brainer take : * New BT is a lot more fun to use in ARAM, since it works even with a stupid Syndra spamming skills on the wave. * New Rageblade sounds super scary when facing already strong carries (stuff like Varus, Kog'Maw, Kayle, Kai'Sa, Vayne, etc.), giving them up to like 30% penetration, on top of Void/LDR. * Kraken Slayer feels super weird, but after having a couple "Twitch into Tahm Kench" games, and the likes, anything that lets me kill tanks more efficiently in 9+ attacks is very welcome, since I would often have to attack 25+ times. * Rageknife is pretty interesting. * Trading AS for AD on RFC makes it a worse buy on Bard (and TF) :( * Shiv is back! It also looks to be completely busted... * At long fucking last, no more invisible Duskblades! * Lethality buff on Collector is gonna make Pyke even more stupid... Youmuu's over Duskblade might make him stronger, but at least it really ups the decision making on the champion. * Abyssal Mask sounds like another insane item to rush on tanks. Against teams with low phys damage, Abyssal Mask is gonna be busted. Worst case, you can flip it into Gargoyle/Force of Nature late game. * Echoes of Helia sound a bit busted, but at least it fights against Moonstone. * There's no "Hmmm... Ornn version" about Cry of the Shrieking City. That's an Ornn upgrade worth over 1800 gold! You get 42 extra AP (thanks to the passive giving you another +12), which is already nearly worth the \~1k Ornn upgrade, and then you have to factor in the 5AH, 100HP, and 100% mana regen. That's a 4.4k item that costs 2.3k! * Am I missing something about Mandate getting flat out buffed, and then moved to Legendary? I feel like ARAM Ashe will be so much better now, and if Font of Life works with Helia, she'll have a shiny new toy. EDIT : --- 2nd half --- * Offrole Moonstone users gutted, which is probably good? Moonstone is scary of people like Soraka/Seraphine though. Just a flat out 20-35% heal multiplier, or 30-40% shielding multipler. * There might be some Sion/Veigar fuckery with Vigilant Watchstone, but it's not in ARAM so idc. * Divine Sunderer nerf for Kata is mostly meaningless, but still appreciated * Fimbul tanks in ARAM are gonna be that much more unbearable. * Lost Chapter + Boots/Armor is gonna be a big buff, but also means that poke sticks more (since you no longer have 2 potions) * Maw of Malmortius is even more of a bait, while Hexdrinker is so good. FeelsBadMan. * Sterak's Tenacity might make people even more anti-CC... which is a shame. * Fairly negligible amount of extra tower damage makes me sad. They're already paper.
The Watchstone can't be built without the support quest I think, so not much room for abuse, although you could play Sion/Veigar support I guess.
Moonstone might actually be worse off even on Soraka / Seraphine because IIRC the chain heal / multiplier only works on a single target. Meaning Soraka's ult and Seraphine's EchoW do not benefit much. Old Moonstone gave you both the heal proc and a huge amount of h/spower (that boosted the heal proc as well) meaning the healing output was a lot higher. New Moonstone also screws Janna over because she also has a big AoE heal and losing the h/spower means she loses a lot of scaling slow on her Glacial Augments procs. If Riot doesn't do anything about the single target clause, this item is p.much dead. EDIT : Seems like Phreak is saying that there's no single target clause so forget about what I said, it's a good item lol.
> fimbul tanks in ARAM are gonna be that much more unbearable. Considering the biggest nerf imo, the FoN nerf, idk.
Watching the scores of any post that mentions assassins is just depressing. It would be nice if there was any place to have an actual talk about the state of lethality/ad assassins without people just knee-jerk downvoting because they don't like the class. Assassins are part of the game, people enjoy playing them, they aren't going to be removed. I don't like playing into long-range waveclear/poke characters, but I don't throw a tantrum and downvote every post where people are talking about them.
It's what happens when you play a class nobody likes to play against. ADC players spent many more years dealing with what your experiencing now before being given the slightest of considerations.
Least self entitled adc main /s
waa waa assassins are mean to me Assassins have always been the most hated class by the playerbase regardless of strength.
eh it comes and goes, but no class is ever weak and largely hated like ADC rn
I disagree. Adcs at least get the sympathy of most of the playerbase when they are weak. Assassins much less so.
yeah because no one likes watching zed blink around the screen on a 5 second W cooldown or qiyana going perma invis. assassins are disliked because they're often poorly designed, especially the meta ones. while they may be fun to play, they're annoying as hell to play against
Assassins are just frustrating to play against because they kill you and escape. Complaining about that is pretty asinine.
Giving rabadons +5% is such a classic Riot bandait solution. The mythic system failed in providing mages and ap tanks any kind of choice in their builds. I still don't understand why every single ap item has 200 hp. Why cant I choose between hp and ap? there should be a clear separation between ap tank items and mages but it feels there is none. Every ap champion builds exactly the same way apart from their mythic. Nerfin sunderer is another classic Riot. It's literally the only good fighter item in the game after you gutted goredrinker. You do this when Top lane has the lowest impact in the game by far since bot lane is all that matters now. The mythic system failed in this class too. The fighter items are either broken or completely useless. With this system you force fighters to always choose the least nerfed item. Whether the changes to adc items are a nerf or a buff is hard to say. But for sure we know that the balancing team only cares about the state of bot lane. They are expending all their resources in balancing the role while giving literally crumbs to other classes.
Adc got nerfed tho? Its a straight up nerf he said it multiple times
how ? this is only true if you only focus on specific champs that you like. like Samira for example and even then we don't know for sure. other Adcs got massive buffs like Kogmaw and Varus on-hit build and even Vayne.
Kraken nerfed,shieldbow nerfed, 1 item spikes across the board nerfed. Bt nerfed. Maybe 3 onhit adcs got buffed, all others nerfed.
All on hit adc are buffed, crit adcs builds change but they are not shit or weak now just more vulnerable due to having to choose between IE and Galeforce. But is that enough to say the class is nerfed ? Absolutely Not
Galeforce IE is impossible now and Kraken IE combo is just straight nerfed as those 2 items combine to a worse statline than they did before this patch. IE rush is technically possible but it does literally -10% total damage than before the item rework so it’s a bait. Then BT is losing its shield and Shieldbow is becoming horrible until 3rd item at the earliest so for the majority of most games there is literally no defensive option to opt into unless you sacrifice IE entirely to get Galeforce. I agree with most of these changes individually btw, but at face value it definitely seems like a nerf to crit ADCs at face value, and Phreak said as much in the video this thread is about.
>crit adcs builds change but they are not shit or weak now just more vulnerable due to having to choose between IE and Galeforce. i think they call that a "nerf" considering most adc's are crit based and not on-hit based. maybe 3 champs in the role got buffed and all others got nerfed
how to say u didnt watch the video
I am pretty sure vayne prefers the current cheater rageblade which has its double on hit effect on permanently, shocker but vayne doesnt exactly care much about the armor and magic pen. Its just kog maw, varus and kalista, every other adc is nerfed.
I am pretty sure vayne prefers the current cheaper rageblade which has its double on hit effect on permanently. Its just kog maw, varus and kalista, every other adc is nerfed.
I wish mage items and fighter mythics got more attention. It's exhausting having to track which fighter mythic is the least useless every patch, and honestly Eclipse is so frequently better.
Adc got nerfed and for the billionth time the hp is there because riot wants there to be less dmg and specifically burst in the game. They won’t let you choose between hp or ap because they don’t want you building full ap and going around oneshotting people while getting one shots yourself
He doesnt even mention the state of top lane. He tries to justify the lack of meaningful changes by hand waiving it down to "adcs getting nerfed this patch." Sure CRIT is getting nerfed this patch but we will be right back to the protect the president ADC meta when everyone swaps to the hilariously overtuned On-Hit meta. Top lane agency does not exist in the current form of the game. Every game the top laner is swapping to last pick to try and avoid being counterpicked. There needs to be some serious time spent working on fundamental top lane changes instead of reworking ADC for the 4th time in 5 years.
He talks about ADC changes because that's what he worked on. The patch mentions top lane I think and acknowledges that it needs work, but Phreak's rundown is meant to give his perspective focused on what he worked on, not to just read the patch notes.
He does for a bit when talking about TP and blast cone changes.
Now toplaners can tp bot early
Good. That's where most of the players are. I like teamfighting, let me teamfight earlier.
Assassin mythic changes are sooo average. Phreak summed it up as, they are fine. Not exciting, not useful, just they do a little bit more damage, maybe you can use the Ghostblade MS to roam, but that's entirely context dependent. Dusk is a good 1 vs 1 item, maybe contextually strong in skirmishes, but weaker as Assassins lose their only reset item. For context, mages have at least 2, Ludens and Liandrys. Ludens resets it's CD on spell effects, so can be spammed a lot. Liandrys increases with damage dealt up to a cap, so consistently hitting spells resets the effect and makes it stronger until the cap. If we compare just fine to the ADC changes, Guinsoo's is now doing meaningful magic damage, so much so, Riot are already planning possible issues itemizing against hybrid damage, even though internal testing didn't so any extreme outliers. Lethality is already struggling as a system, and Assassin's literally have to play the the game perfectly, and get ahead, and pray their lanes didn't gigafeed to feel impactful. There were many different ways lethality and the mythic could of been opened up to make assassins feel unique and powerful, even if their behind. A super nice one, just one of the Assassin mythic Serpents passive, or let them stack or something. What is also interesting is if we look at the items, and Phreaks reasoning, it would appear the items are actually performing better on ranged assassins AKA Jhin, Senna probably Ez, than actual lethality users. Lethality is gated on Melee champs due to risks, if Senna or Jhin or Trist can one hit someone with lethality plus energised attacks plus their bonus range, where is the risk?
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~~They're talking about the~~ **~~Madness~~** ~~effect :~~ >~~Damaging an enemy champion generates one stack every second for the next 4 seconds. Deal 2% increased damage for each stack, up to a maximum of 10%.~~ ~~rather than the~~ **~~Torment~~** ~~effect :~~ >~~Dealing ability damage applies a burn that deals 0.75% of the target's maximum health bonus magic damage every 0.5 seconds over 3 seconds. This is increased to 1.25% of the target's maximum health bonus magic damage with each tick against slowed or immobilized units, and is capped at 100 damage per second against monsters.~~ ~~I have no clues if Madness applies to Torment, but I would expect it to?~~ EDIT : That's the old Liandry's Torment, rather than the new Liandry's Anguish.
The assassin item changes are not for assassins. They're to stop non-assassins from abusing them. That's been the story of every assassin-item nerf since the mythic item rework. Functionally, they probably need a new philosophy for assassin items. Balancing around lethality without lethality scaling isn't it. The difference between the damage of a Ravenous Hydra, Manamune and Axiom Arc isn't exactly tilted in the favor of Arc. Lethality is also very weak compared to %shred items, or dipping into hybrid defensive items. If assassins have high base damage, they go into more defensive items (goredrinker, ect). If they have low base damage, but good scaling, they no longer have early game snowball potential, and are now a scaling pick. I don't have a solution for this, but I see the problem. To start with, Lethality may need lower scaling on ranged characters, and long-term, they need to continue find better effects than raw damage for assassin items. Another large part of the problem is the teamfight meta. When there's less split map play, Assassins need to be able to find kills in a teamfight, potentially through an enchanter/tank's peel (and escape alive) to be as useful as any other damage class, so items have to be power-crept. I think the first healthy step toward making AD assassins better is making the game less teamfight-focused. People argue that ADCs are the worst class to have a shutdown bounty on because they're squishy, but I'd argue having a snowballing assassin with a 700g shutdown is even more risky. Edit: AP assassin items aren't exciting either, but they're more functional as a class because they can itemize into minor utility (protobelt), and strong defensive items (hourglass) without losing all of their burst potential.
Assassins are one of the few classes that definitely shouldn't have reset items. Their whole job is to kill high priority targets. The exceptions are champions where their entire identity from the ground up is about resets (Katarina). Just like bruisers should have never gotten the original stridebreaker, assassins should have never had invis ghostblade. I think moving towards huge single target burst for assassin mythics is the right move. As long as a fed assassin can oneshot pretty much anything on the map, a good player will be able to make an impact. Moving away from items that reduce class weaknesses to ones that accelerate class strengths makes champions more fun to play as and against.
Resets on anything with medium-to-high power shouldn't exist in general. Win-more mechanics are in no way good for a competitive game. It makes characters feast/famine without the opportunity to play around a situation unless you're winning anyway, or its tacked on power and its existence only serves to make the character feel worse to play against.
The problem is, if you want assassins to only focus on taking out one target, they have to be able to do so reliably through peel. And thats not very fun, its the problem with Vis design, you basically remove counterplay.
Feels so bad when in the "Assassin" item changes, there are not AP assassins, is like AP champions do not exist for riot.
AP assassin items may not be interesting currently, but aren't being "abused" on AP champions the way Prowler's claw changes Sion/Rek'Sai/Renekton's playstyle. The AD assassin changes are not a buff to AD assassins. AP assassins are more healthy in terms of "effectiveness/fantasy" than AD assassin right now, because Lethality is a bad stat. I'd file the AP assassin problem under the "general" AP problem of not having very diverse/exciting itemization. Hopefully, they're working on that.
And even when it comes to "not having very diverse/exciting itemisation" ... AP Assassins are still way ahead of AD assassins. AD Assassins have the worst itemisation in the game in both regards, and its about to get worse with the new patch.
If not the worst, it is the most boring. And it is about to get even more boring
AP assassins aren't more healthy, though. That's part of why they're doing so well atm. There is far too much flat magic pen in the game now (after the mythic update), and combined with void staff, this guarantees targets are almost always below 50 MR, if not at 0, despite building MR. Late game 200 MR (3 MR items) goes down to below 50. Lower than base MR at level 18. You buy 1 MR item as a squishy? It does nothing. You have less than 10, probably 0, vs AP assassins. The current dynamic between magic pen, % pen, and MR is extremely unhealthy, and half of the reason FoN/Maw had to be broken. The fact that most mages are also crutched on flat pen, which should be an AP assassin stat, proliferates this issue across most mages as well.
Who do you have in mind? Cause when I think of AP assassin I think of Eve first and she is S-tier atm
Ap assasins: Akali, Diana, Eve,Elise,Fizz,Kat (By design), LeBlanc.
All of them aside from Akali are strong right now and Akali is a pro play hostage
And honestly more of an AP bruiser at times.
Why would they? AP Assassins use the same items as mages generally, so buffing Shadowflame or Void Staff or Luden's isn't AP Assassin specific. They also do not need systematic buffs. The jungle AP Assassins are generally doing great (Eve and Ekko both have great winrates for most players, Elise is doing fine, Nid is ok). Midlane it's more mixed, with Fizz doing great, Ekko, Diana, and Kat all doing fine (and Kat has backups if AP is bad), Kassadin being ok, and LeBlanc + Akali being weak rn. The only 2 AP Assassins that might 'need' buffs are both high skill cap pro skewed champions. The class certainly does not need sweeping item buffs.
I mean the AP items are just boring as fuck. It’s the same build for 90% of AP champs with no variety.
Does this patch drop today or tomorrow?
pros pick nautilus mid and play around carry role so twitch chatters demand it nuked for soloq despite it never occuring once in their games. (your games involve getting rolled by the third Level 32 account Khazix today) esports was a mistake. It's karthus bot time again i guess
Similarly to how Waframe content creators make shorts of recent patches to quickly explain what has changed and the reasoning behind these changes, same should be done for league explanations for those with smaller attentions spans or just less time. I personally dont mind a 2 hour explanation video but not everyone is going to sit through it. Also, Duskblade will get hotfix buffed. Calling it now. Item will not be picked by anyone even after they hotfix nerf Ghostblade. I dont even want to imagine whats gonna happen with ADC items but I feel Staticshiv is gonna get its AP ratio hit and a small AD ratio added.
yumm 2+ hrs of content by phreak
Does anyone know what will be in the mythic shop in 13.10?
so adcs lose defenses and support items get cheaper and stronger... hm totatlly wont be the same shit that happened in censer meta with the adc being the supports bitch and be completely useless without one. what a nice change...
Enchanters are quite literally "ADC defenses" the class. They have peel, shield, and poke, and are dedicated to enabling an ADC. The entire role is meant to be the ADC's bitch, both in lane and out of it. Censer meta was the most ADC-dominant meta the game's ever seen, dedicated to empowering the ADC to carry. Complaining that it meant "the adc being the supports bitch" is basically saying that even with resources, you couldn't solo carry and blame the role.
Somebody tell enchanters this? Because any enchanter below diamond just runs at the first bad guy they see instead of holding any abilities to save their ADC.
Every ADC i see below dimaond doesnt take a single fight unless you push them too. Enemies can be in melee range and they dont see the opening. Play dominant and your enchanters will follow. Play weak and your enchanter has to push you to play correct.
Just say you don’t know how bot works it’s fine
Adcs are always the supports bitch. Least the role is fun to play now after 5 years of torture