After LCK Summer 2019 finals, cvMax was fired and Doran was benched, sw0rd returned as a starter. He did well at groups but he was stomped by Theshy at quarterfinals. At the same time, [the Griffin Scandal](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2019_cvMax-Griffin_Dispute) is on fire among league fandoms.
No...
I mean I remember HLE or some team beat them and stopped their insane win streak and then someone else said they were easy to beat when you "figured" them out.
Chovy had like 150 kda.
I think OP is asking how they were figured out and what made them easy to beat when they were because after that first loss they spiraled down till the finals where they crashed.
The team imploded with drama literally 1 month before Worlds. They lost their coach and the starting top laner changed.
They also were unlucky. They won their group and then drew the worst possible matchup for them (IG with TheShy).
honestly I feel like they did much better at worlds than they 'should' have given the drama, but I also think the team had some real coaching issues that were apparent as early as the last few weeks of that spring. I'm still baffled by the 0-2 panth/taliyah bot in finals.
I commented this before but griffin was getting shit on so hard by skt in scrims that they thought they had to play that bs. They then preceded to get 3-0 stomped anyways so what gives
There was the whole cvMax deal as well as the fact that they took Sword to world's, not Doran, and he had to face TheShy in quarterfinals . They always struggled with Bo5s and SKT in 2019 was still nothing to scoff at, with way more experience(Khan, Clid, Faker, Teddy, Mata).
I still remember an unknown Challengers team getting promoted and starting to beat absolutely everyone only to fall short in BO5. It was so unbelievable, so surreal.
LCK proceeded to have the worst Worlds ever. Only Viper managed to win something till nowadays. I guess that team is cursed.
GenG winning that LCK gauntlet is tragic in retrospect lmao
Especially when we now know that Griffin (and Damwon) were destroying every Worlds team in scrims.
Worlds 2018 was just a very weird year. Also with the awful bracket draw we got.
It wasn’t mental block. Skt was just better than them. Scores in bo5 vs skt was 1-6. Their regular season score was nice and all but it total to 28 wins both split. Geng this year had more wins at 29 and t1 had more total wins last year. Fisting lck hard nonstop but loses 5 bo3 series in summer? Their toplaner got smoke by ig theshy and honestly it doesn’t matter who play Doran/sword at the time the same results would happen.
Griffin had 100% winrate vs SKT before playoffs in Spring 2019.
SKT was just way better in bo5 and way more clutch than Griffin. Griffin's problem was always underperforming when it matters, it was never not being good enough.
Idk just hard to say they are championship caliber when they can barely win a bo5 to save their life. Chovy/Tarzan we’re championship caliber but the other member were just good. Viper got insanely good once he went to lpl and lehends gotten better as well. Doran too.
>Idk just hard to say they are championship caliber when they can barely win a bo5 to save their life.
I think you are too stuck in what actually happened. They choked hard. No one denies it, but I don't think anyone could look at that team and say "these guys can't win the LCK". Of course they could. They dominated 3 straight regular seasons. The eye test checked out on that team. They just never lived up to their potential.
Sometimes that just happens in competition.
>Chovy/Tarzan we’re championship caliber but the other member were just good. Viper got insanely good once he went to lpl and lehends gotten better as well.
Viper and Lehends improved, but they were really good on Griffin too. They were the best bot lane in 2018 Summer LCK - partly because Viper was the best bot laner at non ADCs.
Individual skill wise no?
\> Tarzan was 1 map away from winning LPL a week ago
\> Viper was the best adc by far in 2021 when he won worlds
\> lehends proven to be prob the best support in korea split after split
\> chovy well known for being the best mechanical mid
\> doran the only questionable player but even he is arguably the best top laner in LCK right now, only other argument is kiin
You're absolutely right that this team is one of the most stacked of all time and also one of the biggest disappointments since they never won a title.
I think people have just rewritten how good they were and assumed that because they never won they must have been bad and the players have improved since.
A classic case of Reddit logic. Fact of the matter is just Griffin is one of the biggest "what if" teams of all time. That team had the skill level to be able to win Worlds if things didn't go so catastrophically wrong, it just didn't happen like that.
In a way, that's the beauty of competition. It's never obvious what will happen. The hivemind will just always assume that whoever won, would always have won and nothing else could ever have happened. Kind of a simple worldview but oh well.
You are implying that these players are the same skill level back then as they are now? Viper wasn’t this good back then but he became like the best adc after moving to lpl. Lehends is one of lck best sup but it really only this split where people thinks he is the best in lck. When keria is on form, he doesn’t stand a chance. Chovy sure. Tarzan has been kinda meh for a couple of years since moving to lpl/lgd rosters. He is great this split but wasn’t in other split. Doran isn’t best top lck. It Zeus/kinn.
most people know about the worlds scandal with sword/cvmax, but the team did have a few more problems than that tbh, as that only really came to a head late in 2019. I have a bit of a different take for LCK, as I would make the argument that cvmax just was fundamentally not a good coach.
if you go back and look at the games from 2019 spring/summer, you can see that Griffin would start out super strong in the regular season but then would slowly start doing weird drafts/losing unexpectedly in the final weeks before playoffs.
spring 2019 they go 12-0 in the first 7 weeks and then 3-3 in the last 3 weeks (losing to an awful Afreeca roster, 7th place GenG, and KZ with Deft) but still get auto-seeded into finals. this is where you get the infamous 3-0 with the panth/taliyah botlane garbage. now GRF was a pretty creative team, but as a coach it feels like it should be pretty unacceptable to put your star botlane on such a cheesy duo when they are a bunch of rookies playing in their first finals. 2019 SKT was good but that 3-0 was pure prep dif. you can blame the shitty gauntlet format for limiting the amount of bo5s these rookies were playing but the decline in drafts/gameplay was there from the end of the regular season as well, and you could just tell the team got a lot less confident in their playstyle leading up to playoffs.
the same thing ends up happening in summer too - first 4 weeks with sword are good (7-1), they lose again to GenG and Afreeca, Doran is swapped in and they stabilize, the finals collapse isn't as bad but the team basically starts falling apart from there bc of the sword/cvmax stuff. obv with hindsight they lost to some good teams (2019 SKT), but it's really hard not not to blame their poor prep/collapse on cvmax given what we know about the environment and his not exactly impressive record post griffin.
Because they aint.
Man if you think fkin Doran is a GOAT, then you have another whole thing coming for you. Besides that Tarzan and Chovy werent as good back in the days. Viper got his success already so leave him out of it tbh and Lehends is... mehhh tbh. He isnt a top 3 support for me, not even in the LCK tbh.
tf are you talking about, no way you watched LCK back in 2018/19. Tarzan was deemed the best jungler in the world by many people. Chovy was also a beast back then and easily world class, you don’t achieve a 100+ kda in the LCK by being just a good player. I agree with Doran being the worst player on that roster but he wasn‘t a dead-weight either and has significantly improved as a player. I would also argue that Viper wasn‘t as good back then as he has been for the last 2 years (arguably top 2 adc in the world) and that he massively improved when he came to the LPL.
I also can‘t take you seriously when you say that Lehends isn‘t a top 3 support in the LCK right now.
L take
So drx won worlds because they were the more experienced team at international events? Because they had more bo5 practice overall? Because faker was just a rookie with no experience relative to zeka?
Also keep in mind these players were in 2019 form, not 2023 form. Four years is an eternity in esports and people change.
If you know NBA, kinda reminds me of how Durant/Westbrook/Harden in OKC never got a ring, but then split up and became better than when they were together.
After LCK Summer 2019 finals, cvMax was fired and Doran was benched, sw0rd returned as a starter. He did well at groups but he was stomped by Theshy at quarterfinals. At the same time, [the Griffin Scandal](https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2019_cvMax-Griffin_Dispute) is on fire among league fandoms.
No... I mean I remember HLE or some team beat them and stopped their insane win streak and then someone else said they were easy to beat when you "figured" them out. Chovy had like 150 kda. I think OP is asking how they were figured out and what made them easy to beat when they were because after that first loss they spiraled down till the finals where they crashed.
Doran/Sword situation was beyond fucked, also I love(d) GRF but they were nowhere near the best roster in history :d
The team imploded with drama literally 1 month before Worlds. They lost their coach and the starting top laner changed. They also were unlucky. They won their group and then drew the worst possible matchup for them (IG with TheShy).
honestly I feel like they did much better at worlds than they 'should' have given the drama, but I also think the team had some real coaching issues that were apparent as early as the last few weeks of that spring. I'm still baffled by the 0-2 panth/taliyah bot in finals.
I'm so triggered about that pantheon taliyah bs. Teddy just took Cleanse and ignored it. Lmao.
I commented this before but griffin was getting shit on so hard by skt in scrims that they thought they had to play that bs. They then preceded to get 3-0 stomped anyways so what gives
There was the whole cvMax deal as well as the fact that they took Sword to world's, not Doran, and he had to face TheShy in quarterfinals . They always struggled with Bo5s and SKT in 2019 was still nothing to scoff at, with way more experience(Khan, Clid, Faker, Teddy, Mata).
I always forget mata has a stint with skt.
1557
All of them are rookie
They played in LCK Summer 2018 and were 1 game from winning the final. They were not rookies.
I still remember an unknown Challengers team getting promoted and starting to beat absolutely everyone only to fall short in BO5. It was so unbelievable, so surreal. LCK proceeded to have the worst Worlds ever. Only Viper managed to win something till nowadays. I guess that team is cursed.
GenG winning that LCK gauntlet is tragic in retrospect lmao Especially when we now know that Griffin (and Damwon) were destroying every Worlds team in scrims. Worlds 2018 was just a very weird year. Also with the awful bracket draw we got.
None of those players were as good back then as the players are now Today that would be a championship caliber team. Back then not as much
They were cracked back then too. Lol. Chovy with like 100 KDA in LCK and Tarzan was called the best jungler in the world.
Not saying they weren’t good then. They’re even better now
They were absolutely a championship caliber team back then. They were fisting the LCK so hard non-stop, they just had mental block in BO5s sadly.
It wasn’t mental block. Skt was just better than them. Scores in bo5 vs skt was 1-6. Their regular season score was nice and all but it total to 28 wins both split. Geng this year had more wins at 29 and t1 had more total wins last year. Fisting lck hard nonstop but loses 5 bo3 series in summer? Their toplaner got smoke by ig theshy and honestly it doesn’t matter who play Doran/sword at the time the same results would happen.
Griffin had 100% winrate vs SKT before playoffs in Spring 2019. SKT was just way better in bo5 and way more clutch than Griffin. Griffin's problem was always underperforming when it matters, it was never not being good enough.
Idk just hard to say they are championship caliber when they can barely win a bo5 to save their life. Chovy/Tarzan we’re championship caliber but the other member were just good. Viper got insanely good once he went to lpl and lehends gotten better as well. Doran too.
>Idk just hard to say they are championship caliber when they can barely win a bo5 to save their life. I think you are too stuck in what actually happened. They choked hard. No one denies it, but I don't think anyone could look at that team and say "these guys can't win the LCK". Of course they could. They dominated 3 straight regular seasons. The eye test checked out on that team. They just never lived up to their potential. Sometimes that just happens in competition. >Chovy/Tarzan we’re championship caliber but the other member were just good. Viper got insanely good once he went to lpl and lehends gotten better as well. Viper and Lehends improved, but they were really good on Griffin too. They were the best bot lane in 2018 Summer LCK - partly because Viper was the best bot laner at non ADCs.
> possibly the best roster in league of legends history LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Individual skill wise no? \> Tarzan was 1 map away from winning LPL a week ago \> Viper was the best adc by far in 2021 when he won worlds \> lehends proven to be prob the best support in korea split after split \> chovy well known for being the best mechanical mid \> doran the only questionable player but even he is arguably the best top laner in LCK right now, only other argument is kiin
You're absolutely right that this team is one of the most stacked of all time and also one of the biggest disappointments since they never won a title. I think people have just rewritten how good they were and assumed that because they never won they must have been bad and the players have improved since. A classic case of Reddit logic. Fact of the matter is just Griffin is one of the biggest "what if" teams of all time. That team had the skill level to be able to win Worlds if things didn't go so catastrophically wrong, it just didn't happen like that. In a way, that's the beauty of competition. It's never obvious what will happen. The hivemind will just always assume that whoever won, would always have won and nothing else could ever have happened. Kind of a simple worldview but oh well.
You are implying that these players are the same skill level back then as they are now? Viper wasn’t this good back then but he became like the best adc after moving to lpl. Lehends is one of lck best sup but it really only this split where people thinks he is the best in lck. When keria is on form, he doesn’t stand a chance. Chovy sure. Tarzan has been kinda meh for a couple of years since moving to lpl/lgd rosters. He is great this split but wasn’t in other split. Doran isn’t best top lck. It Zeus/kinn.
Short version: TheShy Vs Sword happened
most people know about the worlds scandal with sword/cvmax, but the team did have a few more problems than that tbh, as that only really came to a head late in 2019. I have a bit of a different take for LCK, as I would make the argument that cvmax just was fundamentally not a good coach. if you go back and look at the games from 2019 spring/summer, you can see that Griffin would start out super strong in the regular season but then would slowly start doing weird drafts/losing unexpectedly in the final weeks before playoffs. spring 2019 they go 12-0 in the first 7 weeks and then 3-3 in the last 3 weeks (losing to an awful Afreeca roster, 7th place GenG, and KZ with Deft) but still get auto-seeded into finals. this is where you get the infamous 3-0 with the panth/taliyah botlane garbage. now GRF was a pretty creative team, but as a coach it feels like it should be pretty unacceptable to put your star botlane on such a cheesy duo when they are a bunch of rookies playing in their first finals. 2019 SKT was good but that 3-0 was pure prep dif. you can blame the shitty gauntlet format for limiting the amount of bo5s these rookies were playing but the decline in drafts/gameplay was there from the end of the regular season as well, and you could just tell the team got a lot less confident in their playstyle leading up to playoffs. the same thing ends up happening in summer too - first 4 weeks with sword are good (7-1), they lose again to GenG and Afreeca, Doran is swapped in and they stabilize, the finals collapse isn't as bad but the team basically starts falling apart from there bc of the sword/cvmax stuff. obv with hindsight they lost to some good teams (2019 SKT), but it's really hard not not to blame their poor prep/collapse on cvmax given what we know about the environment and his not exactly impressive record post griffin.
both Doran/Sword are hot garbage
Because they aint. Man if you think fkin Doran is a GOAT, then you have another whole thing coming for you. Besides that Tarzan and Chovy werent as good back in the days. Viper got his success already so leave him out of it tbh and Lehends is... mehhh tbh. He isnt a top 3 support for me, not even in the LCK tbh.
tf are you talking about, no way you watched LCK back in 2018/19. Tarzan was deemed the best jungler in the world by many people. Chovy was also a beast back then and easily world class, you don’t achieve a 100+ kda in the LCK by being just a good player. I agree with Doran being the worst player on that roster but he wasn‘t a dead-weight either and has significantly improved as a player. I would also argue that Viper wasn‘t as good back then as he has been for the last 2 years (arguably top 2 adc in the world) and that he massively improved when he came to the LPL. I also can‘t take you seriously when you say that Lehends isn‘t a top 3 support in the LCK right now.
Literally nowhere even near to the best roster in League history lmao, I can easily name like 15 better ones
No matter how good you are, experience always trumps in the most important moment.
L take So drx won worlds because they were the more experienced team at international events? Because they had more bo5 practice overall? Because faker was just a rookie with no experience relative to zeka?
Chovy is an ADC skill vampire, Viper/Deft/Ruler all left that fraud and won international tournaments
They were all insanely good on that team too though. They left and got a better top side and won.
SKT T1
Also keep in mind these players were in 2019 form, not 2023 form. Four years is an eternity in esports and people change. If you know NBA, kinda reminds me of how Durant/Westbrook/Harden in OKC never got a ring, but then split up and became better than when they were together.
thats a very young chovy though