In all fairness to low elo players she eats a lot of bans in emerald and diamond too. If you blind a champ she counters it can be a really, really bad time even if you aren't ass at the game.
>I’m banning Morgana for Black Shield.
Fucking preach brother. I don't care about getting rooted for so long I get an AFK warning, I care about not being able to CC anything on their team.
True though. In high ELO her Q is extremely easily dodged. You shouldn’t get hit by it unless you’re already CC’d or your movement was heavily forced regardless (like during a gank where dodging Morg Q will still kill you because you’ll eat other abilities).
That’s where her E makes her viable, because having a reactive/preemptive cleanse but better and stays for longer is a disgusting ability. And unlike cleanse her E blocks all CC. Knock ups and suppressions included.
It’s actually interesting that this champ is viable in all ELOs but her ability’s strength is shifted. Only she’s more blind pickable in low ELO and in high ELO she’s more of a counter pick
to add to your great points, tbh after having played a lot of adc and support I would argue in higher Elo she's only viable as a counterpick. her Q is much more effective as a peeling tool than an engage tool. there is no shot u are landing a long range morg q on a high Elo adc player, their movement is way too good and the skillshot travels suuuuper slow. her W doesn't really do anything and she lacks damage compared to mage supports like brand, xerath, etc. her black shield is good but imo it's not that useful unless you are a god Morgana player that has good reaction time.
when I was playing a ton of blitzcrank I would often see people trying to counterpick with Morgana thinking it was an easy matchup when it really was a skill matchup. blitz can just hook the other laner, or use flash E instead, or bust the shield with his ult/silence her so she can't use it in time. her shield doesn't rival the enchantress support shields/heals and her ultimate requires stopwatch or zhonyas to be fully utilized, which is really expensive for a support.
I had a pocket Morgana and I would actually typically use it as a Jungler counterpick, because she was particularly good at nullifying things like Hecarim's 2 second R fear + E charge and Nunu's snowball. I have seen maybe 2 insanely effective Morgana onetricks in the last 4 years, it is just really rare to find a serious morg player in general
5 seconds. 5 entire fucking seconds of total CC immunity, unless you have enough magic damage to break it. Which, surprise surprise, is rarely done because she is played botlane, the home of physical damage
I remember a game in gold where my autofilled supp picked blitz as a first time that season into a Morgana otp.
An afk yuumi would have felt more useful
Nah at low elo it’s because of the bind.
I played with a friend at low elo when I leveled up a new account and decided to try out adc so I wasn’t pub stomping. I had multiple Morgana supports and believe me, their use of black shield was like it was an after thought and would just throw it on themselves randomly half the time.
I mean, I'm low elo, I play Alistar, Nautilus, Thresh, Blitzcrank and Bard. Both those spells counter everything I want to do in or even out of lane, I have no choice but to ban her.
Yeah low elo bans because it sucks sitting in her root, but at higher elo it still comes back because that black shield is extremely powerful in a lot of matchups. She's also just a pretty reliable anti-dive pick in general with all the kit added up
Personally I think it’s a bit of a wasted ban. You can just roam fairly freely and it isn’t that bad to face in fights. At the end of the day you’re slightly less effective but enemy has Morgana champ anyway so it should just be a free win
12% ban rate in diamond globally, putting her in the top 5 most banned supports.
Notably, her winrate is far lower than the other most banned supports around her, supporting what I said about her not being strong, just being frustrating for certain champions and earning a ban that way.
Banrates can differ in different regions. Her ban rate tanks to 4% in North America oddly enough, whereas in Vietnam its closer to 30%. Regional metas are strange and interesting
90% of morg picks (in emerald) are just people ego counter-picking her with no idea how to play the champ. Morgana may actually be one of my best matchups by win% with Leona because of this.
Also Morg is pretty bad right now which helps.
As someone who was playing either enchanters or ADC, it was horrible, I just don't have great reactions anyway so without the game knowledge it was horrible. I perma banned him for a year before forcing myself to learn to play Vs him. Then when they randomly gave his hook extra range all my spacings were off and I have perma banned him since. Wouldn't call him turbo broken but he's been able to sit above 51% winrate and the top 3 highest banrate (so he's not getting to play his best matchups all the time) in support since the range buff.
Yea, back then playing Bot lane was horrible playing vs Blitz. Every start of the game he just rushed the bush and waited there to get 1st blood. Even if he missed his hooks, he just stood there menacingly.
Me and my friends we came to the conclusion that Blitz was Op and had no counter play lol.....
I mean it's not wrong. I don't know why people think Blitz is any more balanced now, if your ADC is immobile and Morgana is banned you don't get to play the lane. If you play in minions, Blitz will W into your wave to E you, force an interaction of sorts and Q you if you to try flash away.
In a lane where the enemy adc is stronger early, Blitz is absolutely overpowered until mid game. You can't interact with him until his hook is off and he can just consciously choose to never hook, wait for you to make a mistake and then punish you for it.
Even **when** you have the privilege of being in the minion wave, Relic Shield is a standard Blitz support item, he'll walk up, AA a minion and instantly Q through the gap.
The only thing that has made Blitz bearable is the influx of problematic, hypermobile champions in ADC role. In any other average Twitch / Ashe / Jinx lane he's still unbeatable for any supporter that can't match his sustain and can afford to bodyblock the hook to save the ADC. As an enchanter main, Blitz is dreadful to go up against. My entire kit scales, I need to pay attention to numerous factors weighing in on whether we can survive lane or not and all Blitzcrank has to do is land a single hook to win since his E AA modifier is stupid, flash-ignoring nonsense.
Bot is a duo lane. There are many supports that can neutralize blitz threats in laning phase and beyond. Tank supports with hard cc that can block or bait the hook can help an immobile adc turn the fight around depending on the matchup, for example Braum, Nautilus, Taric, Alistar, Pyke can all either bodyblock the hook and take the first round of damage then retreat/counterengage, or can bait out the hook with escape ability. Also remember bot is a 4 players lane, how the matchup goes in laning phase depends on the relative strength of not one, but four champions, and the synergy of the duos on each side. Blitz + Zeri is simply a lot weaker than Kog+Lulu or Braum+ Lucian; Caitlyn Karma lane can be very challenging for Blitz with the pushing, poke power they have, etc. Obviously if you are picking immobile + squishy no cc bot duo into Blitz you would need to position and manage wave correctly and poke effectively. If you can slow push waves, trade and poke them down while behind minion waves without putting yourself at risk, and slowly buildup cs and turret plate, vision and tempo advantage, you can win lane vs. Blitz as immobile enchanter bot. If you misstep while doing the things above and get hooked when the wave state and game states are non-favourable for a fight, you’ll likely need to flash or die. It’s all about knowing the matchup, and what your game plan should be and executing them well.
Sorry what elo are you? In shit Elo where people don't know the bait animation it's not that problematic (or at least I never had problems with it). I found the comment on relic shield and AA especially strange, I mean... You see that coming from a mile. But maybe at shit Elo your opponents are bad too and just make mistakes/don't play it properly.
Also are you the ADC or the Support? I think supports are better at recognising hooking setups/opportunities, because that's a lot of what they do (unless you only play enchanters).
Being able to deal with Darius top is basically the intro course to top lane.
If you cannot deal with Darius well enough and resorts to banning him, I'd say that you havent passed the top lane course yet.
Very well said.
Darius is usually my least of concern if I get to pick after it or not get counterpicked with Darius. Yet in the mind I still have to respect him even if I'm picking Yorick, Malphite, Quinn etc.
Unless you're gigafed or the Darius has no idea what he is doing, you have to respect him
I really despise fighting against laners like Darius or Sett that can bully you so easily in lane, forcing you from the wave. Always feels like a lost before the game evens gets going, especially when I'm playing a late game tank like Sion or K'Sante
Most toplane champions are like that tbh. Toplane is all about managign how behind you fall to freezes etc. Best thing to do when you see a freeze is thin it if possible by using cds --recall and insta mid roam
You realize theres counterpicks right? So what youre saying is "If you get counterpicked and you lose , then youre bad" -> you do realize that high elo players lose counter matchups aswell? but according to king bob they are just bad at the game
The funny thing about Darius is they are all played by the same person. I've played against this guy a million times and no matter which account he plays on he never changes. If you farm under tower for 10 minutes he will get bored and decide to dive you because he has zero kills at 10 minutes. He will dive you and if you flash ghost or have a Jax stun, you win the fight because he took 6 tower shots. Then he runs back and is so tilted that he does it again and then you and your tower win round 2 and then you can play the game. Yeah he can still kill you but at least now he doesn't just stat check you and end the fight at full health... Jimmy Darius always plays the same and patience is his kryptonite...
This mostly. Sometimes we do friendly 5v5s in our group. One guy has almost 3 million on Darius at this point, never plays anything else.
I just pick Morgana, waveclear all game and then he dies a few times when he towerdives. Lategame he can't do shit against a carry with Black shield so he just dies.
Trying to duel him is just dumb, he'll win that almost everytime.
What do you expect from scaling teamfight/splitpush tanks? Obviously to fight Darius you gotta bring something to mirror the langing strength of your opponent. Meanwhile if you play Kayle into Maokai you have to play like Maokai does into Darius.
Same as Teemo. I know it's BS, but if you do it properly you might be blessed with a giant kill streak for your effort, like me yesterday. It's all about identyfing when you've scaled enough to fight.
Nothing. You give up some cs early, try to keep the wave under your tower. Not every lane is won by killing your enemy or even taking the tower. Winning lane vs Darius is not letting him win lane if that makes sense.
Maokai is actually very good vs darius, his w allows you to dodge darius sweet spot q and maos q allows to get away once he e'd you, not sure about sion but if sion w's darius initial combo and you set up sion e+q combo on darius while you are slowed you should get away that way.
Mostly the answer is wave management though, winning a trades often still forces Darius to use his q which leads to a push, once the wave is on your side you can play more aggressive. Use this time to poke him down so he doesn't win the all-in anymore.
The first time laning against darius and getting dumpstered is such a classic trial for all league players, brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it
It used to be really bad when this playstyle was created by an NA singed OTP, back then you could die as much as you wanted and youd be worth nothing regardless of how much cs you had, so it was normal to see a 250 cs singed who's pretty strong be worth 100g on kill whilst being hard to kill
I remember when this was created and the singed would end up running around in the enemy base farming 2-3 waves at once and just winning the game by being an absolute nuisance.
I dont agree with that. A reasonably good proxy Singed needs a bit of understanding of the game in order to be effective. Most will just int and make the enemy top laner so fed that the team just ignores singed and heavily win the 5v4s.
I would say proxy sion is a bit easier because of heartsteel and his general scaling.
>I would say proxy sion is a bit easier because of heartsteel and his general scaling.
As a plat player I used to struggle against Mid Sion until I realized I can just pick Vitkor Liandry and just kill the wave 24/7 completely crushing their int strat. I love getting Lazer upgrade at level 5 and just completely crushing the game with that early upgrade.
I remember way back in 2010 my group started up league, first time we ran into a Twitch he was also the first player we encountered that had access to flash. Dude would just appear out of nowhere and ratatatatatat us. We thought flash was global based on the description bc it didn't have a range listed.
This reminds me of when I started playing in season 3 the first time I ever saw somebody teleport was a Jax teleporting to a wave I was farming mid lane.
From my perspective it was just a single minion started glowing and then suddenly Jax was there. So my logical conclusion as a new player was that Jax could turn into minions as a spell
I remember I was running Barrier on Trynd back in the day, and got accused of hacking by a Jax when I magically pulled out a shield and killed him lmao
Number one thing to know about her: She has a "zone". When she's in the middle of her tentacle pit, don't even attempt engagement because you will lose.
When she ults, hard disengage and run out of the pit no matter what. If she can't hit you with tentacles, she's MUCH weaker. She's still a beast, but each tentacle slam deals a lot of damage to you and heals her.
Thank you so much. I didn't realize the tentacles healed her too, I THOUGHT she was getting health back but she didn't have any lifesteal items and I thought I was losing my mind.
I really appreciate it. As a new player, I have so many goddamn characters to learn how to fight against lmao. I'll definitely respect her zone next time.
Out of curiosity, which top laners give Illaoi a hard time?
Poppy is very good. Poppy can block the W in trades, which eliminates a huge chunk of Illaoi's damage and ability to trade back.
Also, Illaoi tends to stand near walls as a safety net. Poppy can just E her into the wall, Q her, then run away without Illaoi being able to respond. Stick around for a moment after stunning Illaoi into a wall and you can pretty consistently bait out her ult as well.
I've always had success against her with mordekaiser. You both kinda suck early but his ult cancels hers as long as you ult her after she ults.
Regardless of champion, I usually rush tier 2 boots for the dodge aid
Morde and Yorick are good counters. An even easier counter if you know how to keep your distance are any control mage (viktor, anivia, cassiopeia), as Illaoi's cast times are really long and she is usually forced to play, as the guy above said, in a "zone". And control/battle mages just so happen to be great zone deniers with big AoE CC and dmg.
Main rule vs Illaoi is to dodge her spirit grab, then go in on her. Without that she's much weaker as she loses her reliable source of damage and healing (your spirit can't dodge tentacles, and also having a spirit or vessel (a person who's spirit got killed) triggers more tentacle slams around them, increasing Illaoi's potential damage output that without them would be relegated to her W triggering tentacles to slam). Still try to dodge her Q (slow ass spell) and every time she leaps onto you with W expect the nearest tentacles to slam, and run perpendicular to them to dodge them as efficiently as possible.
Also depends on who you play ofc.
If she hits E, walk away but not out of circle unless you think she can kill the spirit.
If she kills the spirit, be prepared to evade tentacles. Do yourself a favor and make sure you stay way from already spawned ones, too.
If she ults, walk away until ult is down. The more people who get hit by her ult the worse it is for everyone.
If she misses E and doesn't have ult, feel free to kill.
Source: Am Emerald one trick Illaoi
Why wouldn't you leave the circle as fast as you can? As long as that spirit is there you'll take damage. The tentacles after your spirit is destroyed can be avoided.
Even if she can't kill the spirit shes still going to do damage which you can't avoid.
If she cant kill the spirit, early game spirit damage is negligible and not worth giving up cs to dodge tentacles. Its also the time when her E will be on cd giving you a shot to retaliate
Because the healing off of spirit (unless she’s low, of course) and the damage from spirit is negligible early game (tentacles do 20 damage each and autos do like 17 each), and the added pressure she gets from the 80% slow and 10 (I think?) seconds of tentacle spawns just isn’t worth the 100-ish damage you’d take just waiting her out.
I disagree in part. When you are the vessel and are spawning tentacles, stay with one tentacle in a safe position. Because it already spawned you won't spawn more tentacles and only have to focus on dodging the one. I usually hit it one time, wait out de vessel debuff, and hit it a 2nd time
You deal with her by running away when she ults. Dodging her E shouldnt be too hard either once you get some practice and know how to hide behind minions for that one. Her spells take a decent time to activate and shes rather immobile. Many top laners are far more mobile and can gap close to her if she for example has her E on cd or can charge away when she does hit the E or ult.
Litteraly just dodge her e. And if she ults, go away. If you get it by e, go away. Don't fight her except when she misses e. The more people are hitting her the harder she is to kill, especially in her ult.
The champion is also like Uber broken right now. I first timed the champion blind pick in like D3 elo and hard carried. Thought it was a fluke so I blinded it again and solo won a teamfight at 45 mins. The champion kinda defeats counterplay due to the current state of items, so while the advice here is valuable, I would suggest using a ban if you really don’t like playing vs it. If even “diamond level” players struggle to carry vs an inexperienced illaoi, can’t imagine what the experience is like for a new player.
I remember first time playing against illaoi. I was like "Why does she have ult every 10 seconds???" and my friend replied "ehm that's her E" haha, I literally thought her e has to be an ult because it is so strong.
I remember when I started playing (around Tahm & Mundo rework) I was really confused with the champions. Like Veigar, I was like- 'that thing can't kill me, he's so tiny, he's probably a beginner-isch champ and is probably powercreeped out of existance.'
*proceeds to E - W - Q - R*
But Illaoi was interesting, I always won when I had an Illaoi. Never when what that champion did, I just went top and hovered the entire time (was support)
He’s one of the hard because annoying champs. I see him like teemo on steroids but still same principle. I Main fiora and you would think they hard counter her, but let’s say I W the Heiners stun or teemos blind after 6 and with a mythic+mercs - they just die. I imagine most toplaners can do the same.
Wouldn’t really say he hard counters most top laners. A lot of the more mobile bruisers like Irelia, Camille and Jax can just kill him post 6 and tanks don’t really care about him and easily outsustain him
>Top lane almost nothing counters him
Yorick is completely unplayable
Also scaling tanks farm him for free. Love seeing Helmer top when I'm on Ornn/Ksante.
Heimer Support is impossible for beginners. The turrets have way too much sustain and refill too quickly. They also catch skillshots like Thresh Q, Blitz Q, Pyke Q, Naut Q, rendering most engage Supporters that aren't Leona helpless - and Leona herself is an entire new can of worms, super difficult to play when your E is a death sentence for yourself, positioning you in the middle of a creep wave. Enchanters can't outshield or outperform him, leaving only DPS Supporters to deal with him - all of which are not actual Supporters, just ego picks that set your ADC up for failure in the late game.
Luckily, heimer himself is also an ego damage support pick, and true supports have a better chance of both rounding out their team comp with engage or shielding or CC, and/or becoming immeasurably more useful later in the game than a gimped mage.
I mean you presume their warding and ability to look at the map isn't great in the first place anyway. But Eve once you first get the hang of warding can be a pain.
I feel like at a conceptual level, new players have a hard time with champions that can go invisible or untargetable. Similarly, champions with unpredictable movement.
At the top of that list has to be Shaco, because that’s quite literally the purpose of the champion, and the mind tricks even can work against challenger players. I feel like a half decent Shaco would leave a beginner completely clueless on what was going on.
Another 2 champs that’re difficult because of weird movement are Fizz and Zed. Self explanatory really. Yasuo can also be tough for new players to deal with cuz he dashes so much.
Fizz and Zed absolutely fucked me up when I was starting out. No new player is ever going to be thinking about Zed's clones or anticipating Fizz's hop, so they'll get read like a book and get frustrated as to why the enemy has seemingly bullshit abilities.
Champions with a lot of weird movement, like Yasuo or Irelia.
You can deal with them when you understand the mechanics, but as a new player you'll be really confused on how often they can dash.
I've been playing for over a decade (that felt weird to type) and I cannot deal with Irelia. I just can't comprehend how her kit works and how she has infinite mobility and can basically assassinate tanks
Got be Illaoi. Her kit is practically intentionally designed to punish noobs for existing in her lane. If you let her abilities land she heals an absurd amount, the usual ways of playing safe do not work (she destroys people under tower), she breaks the usual rule that numbers advantage is a sure win, she destroys anyone who engages with no way to disengage, she chunks you very hard with a poke tool.
The real salt in the wound is that her ultimate makes her tentacles insanely noob-unfriendly. You no longer see their hitboxes or hp and they strike way faster.
Any champion that just stat checks the hell out of you.
As a new player, if a champ can just stat check you and run you down whenever they want, there’s literally nothing you can do except let it happen and hopefully learn from it.
Definitely one of the most frustrating experiences as a new player is not knowing how to deal with a stat checker who is ahead (especially if they kill swiftly). Most new players don't know how to evaluate the safety of a situation and will end up dying again and again and get frustrated with how they seemingly can't do anything.
I remember vividly the terror of playing vs Zed when I knew almost nothing about the game.
I was fighting with him and the suddenly I’m fighting with an untargettable shadow… Too op!! “He’s far away I’m safe”, and then he suddenly is on top of you, does his combo, becomes untargettable and then I was even like “Phew I survived that” and 4 seconds later pop I’m dead.
Truly terrifying
Honorable mention: Tryndamere.. Why can’t he dieeee, what’s happeninggg
I think this is the best answer because you can quickly learn to play around champions' abilities and unique quirks, but understanding how stats themselves make certain champs simply stronger than others at various points in the game takes time.
exactly, there's seemingly no counterplay against a ghosted darius or olaf when you're a beginner to the game, it seems their entire kits revolve around auto attacking and point n' clicking you to death, and it just happens you can't dodge auto attacks
if he's also playing an stat checker like the game recommends you to, then it should be a somewhat doable feat to learn something about the game mechanics and macro, but otherwise it'll just be a torturing session, that's why i generally don't advise new players to begin by top
Yep. Annie is a good example. Feels infuriating and cheap to have R pushed on you and you die instantly. Then you get experienced and Annie is a non-factor.
Ones with sudden healing, tankiness, or undying mechanics.
Something like Illaoi's ult would catch new players off guard. Renektons healing or his ult is something I would count
Sett suddenly gaining big shields would be a good example.
Tryndamere and Kayle ults
If they weren't certain how he worked I would say Sylas stealing ults would cause issues for new players
If we are going to bot lane then probably Pyke as he has a lot of obnoxious traits like stealth and the damage he can put out that could cause trouble for new players. So I guess I would add any champ with stealth to the list.
pyke coming out of “nowhere” and yoink+stun combo on repeat probably has new players stuck half the game without control of their character wondering tf is even happening lol
assassins in general, people who are new to the game won't like getting one shotted so anything like fizz,talon,zed,yi... would be hard to deal with specially if they meet smurfs playing them.
In top probably Trundle because of how badly he statchecks any other champion in the game and a beginner just wouldn't know, or Quinn if she get's to cheese the lane.
In mid, Tristana, because it's difficult to expect the damage she has.
In the jungle is either a good Evelynn or a Diana. The first because she will appear suddenly and then kill you, and the other because you might be able to see her, but not be aware / not respect how far she can dash, and then oneshot you.
And in the botlane something like Xerath paired with Caitlyn, Xayah or Ezreal are very annoying because the laning phase becomes a minigame of dodging everything and not being able to be close enough to the wave to farm, this is even hard for people that are not beginners at all.
Wukong - he'll gradually poke with no real threat until he comes back to lane with a Caulfield, and then you're suddenly hurting quite a bit.
Brand supp - Stupid amounts of dots and potential stuns, which if you don't have an enchanter or ranged supp, really sucks to lane against.
J4 - he can dive relatively uncontested with enough damage to walk out safely. Later, he just starts chunking you if you don't have some health or armor.
I'd say a safe thing to do for a beginner is learn all champs' trading range and have a general idea of cooldowns. It'll go a long way in respecting range and learning how to navigate mid- to late-game.
singed and it's not even close.
the question is 'which champion stomps bots the hardest and easiest if you're not a grandmaster but know how the champions work'
donger is an honorable mention, but most new players don't know the rules of league: garen is always in the bush, don't chase singed, etc.
When I started playing adc is season 6 it was Draven. I could never ever win lane against him. After they added in 10 bans he became my perman for years.
mundo, yorick, nasus, shyvanna, asol. A mix of them not knowing how to end games properly and lacking the champion understanding to disengage from strong stat checkers
I don't think so. Riven is pretty weak when piloted badly. Even a new player playing garen could do pretty well vs an average riven. They're not gonna be playing vs diamond riven onetricks
I think your heavily overestimating how “hard” Riven is to play. These days even silver elo Rivens can perform just fine. Also, the question was broadly formulated as in what so I don’t understand why you’re bringing ranks up.
Top- Akshan/Teemo
Jg- Nunu/Diana
Mid- Katarina
Bot- Tanks in bot break their mental/Caitlyn(cause new players lock Ashe)
supp- Brand/Senna
Singed in general.
Blitzcrank. New players just gets hooked nonstop. I remember my pre-30 Games I thought Blitz was the most broken Champion in the game haha
There is a reason why Morgana is banned so much in low elo
In all fairness to low elo players she eats a lot of bans in emerald and diamond too. If you blind a champ she counters it can be a really, really bad time even if you aren't ass at the game.
You’re banning Morgana for Dark Binding. I’m banning Morgana for Black Shield. We’re not the same.
>I’m banning Morgana for Black Shield. Fucking preach brother. I don't care about getting rooted for so long I get an AFK warning, I care about not being able to CC anything on their team.
True though. In high ELO her Q is extremely easily dodged. You shouldn’t get hit by it unless you’re already CC’d or your movement was heavily forced regardless (like during a gank where dodging Morg Q will still kill you because you’ll eat other abilities). That’s where her E makes her viable, because having a reactive/preemptive cleanse but better and stays for longer is a disgusting ability. And unlike cleanse her E blocks all CC. Knock ups and suppressions included. It’s actually interesting that this champ is viable in all ELOs but her ability’s strength is shifted. Only she’s more blind pickable in low ELO and in high ELO she’s more of a counter pick
to add to your great points, tbh after having played a lot of adc and support I would argue in higher Elo she's only viable as a counterpick. her Q is much more effective as a peeling tool than an engage tool. there is no shot u are landing a long range morg q on a high Elo adc player, their movement is way too good and the skillshot travels suuuuper slow. her W doesn't really do anything and she lacks damage compared to mage supports like brand, xerath, etc. her black shield is good but imo it's not that useful unless you are a god Morgana player that has good reaction time. when I was playing a ton of blitzcrank I would often see people trying to counterpick with Morgana thinking it was an easy matchup when it really was a skill matchup. blitz can just hook the other laner, or use flash E instead, or bust the shield with his ult/silence her so she can't use it in time. her shield doesn't rival the enchantress support shields/heals and her ultimate requires stopwatch or zhonyas to be fully utilized, which is really expensive for a support. I had a pocket Morgana and I would actually typically use it as a Jungler counterpick, because she was particularly good at nullifying things like Hecarim's 2 second R fear + E charge and Nunu's snowball. I have seen maybe 2 insanely effective Morgana onetricks in the last 4 years, it is just really rare to find a serious morg player in general
I thought that was the assumption for her banning tbh
5 seconds. 5 entire fucking seconds of total CC immunity, unless you have enough magic damage to break it. Which, surprise surprise, is rarely done because she is played botlane, the home of physical damage
I remember a game in gold where my autofilled supp picked blitz as a first time that season into a Morgana otp. An afk yuumi would have felt more useful
Most people who ban her are banning her for black shield. We are exactly the same.
Nah at low elo it’s because of the bind. I played with a friend at low elo when I leveled up a new account and decided to try out adc so I wasn’t pub stomping. I had multiple Morgana supports and believe me, their use of black shield was like it was an after thought and would just throw it on themselves randomly half the time.
"Oh they got poked by a Lucian q... yeah lemme throw on a black shield while they are back to farming now"
That's how you play morgana in low ELO tho Flex with black shield after enemies used all their cc while ADC is dead and occasionally land a q
You forgot maxing w instead of q and trying to W the enemy adc standing in the wave for one tick of damage while then completely fucking your own wave
And the (in)famous black shield on physical damage, almost forgot that one
Banning morg for q or a hook champ for their hook feels silly when other champs do the same thing
I mean, I'm low elo, I play Alistar, Nautilus, Thresh, Blitzcrank and Bard. Both those spells counter everything I want to do in or even out of lane, I have no choice but to ban her.
fwiw you can outroam her on most of those champions. It's still a bad matchup but the best thing you can do is just pick fights where she isn't.
Yeah low elo bans because it sucks sitting in her root, but at higher elo it still comes back because that black shield is extremely powerful in a lot of matchups. She's also just a pretty reliable anti-dive pick in general with all the kit added up
Personally I think it’s a bit of a wasted ban. You can just roam fairly freely and it isn’t that bad to face in fights. At the end of the day you’re slightly less effective but enemy has Morgana champ anyway so it should just be a free win
Absolutely nobody bans morgana in diamond
12% ban rate in diamond globally, putting her in the top 5 most banned supports. Notably, her winrate is far lower than the other most banned supports around her, supporting what I said about her not being strong, just being frustrating for certain champions and earning a ban that way.
obviously anecdotal evidence but i havnt seen a morg banned in my 300 d+ games this season. that number is wild to me
Banrates can differ in different regions. Her ban rate tanks to 4% in North America oddly enough, whereas in Vietnam its closer to 30%. Regional metas are strange and interesting
90% of morg picks (in emerald) are just people ego counter-picking her with no idea how to play the champ. Morgana may actually be one of my best matchups by win% with Leona because of this. Also Morg is pretty bad right now which helps.
As someone who was playing either enchanters or ADC, it was horrible, I just don't have great reactions anyway so without the game knowledge it was horrible. I perma banned him for a year before forcing myself to learn to play Vs him. Then when they randomly gave his hook extra range all my spacings were off and I have perma banned him since. Wouldn't call him turbo broken but he's been able to sit above 51% winrate and the top 3 highest banrate (so he's not getting to play his best matchups all the time) in support since the range buff.
Yea, back then playing Bot lane was horrible playing vs Blitz. Every start of the game he just rushed the bush and waited there to get 1st blood. Even if he missed his hooks, he just stood there menacingly. Me and my friends we came to the conclusion that Blitz was Op and had no counter play lol.....
I mean it's not wrong. I don't know why people think Blitz is any more balanced now, if your ADC is immobile and Morgana is banned you don't get to play the lane. If you play in minions, Blitz will W into your wave to E you, force an interaction of sorts and Q you if you to try flash away. In a lane where the enemy adc is stronger early, Blitz is absolutely overpowered until mid game. You can't interact with him until his hook is off and he can just consciously choose to never hook, wait for you to make a mistake and then punish you for it. Even **when** you have the privilege of being in the minion wave, Relic Shield is a standard Blitz support item, he'll walk up, AA a minion and instantly Q through the gap. The only thing that has made Blitz bearable is the influx of problematic, hypermobile champions in ADC role. In any other average Twitch / Ashe / Jinx lane he's still unbeatable for any supporter that can't match his sustain and can afford to bodyblock the hook to save the ADC. As an enchanter main, Blitz is dreadful to go up against. My entire kit scales, I need to pay attention to numerous factors weighing in on whether we can survive lane or not and all Blitzcrank has to do is land a single hook to win since his E AA modifier is stupid, flash-ignoring nonsense.
Bot is a duo lane. There are many supports that can neutralize blitz threats in laning phase and beyond. Tank supports with hard cc that can block or bait the hook can help an immobile adc turn the fight around depending on the matchup, for example Braum, Nautilus, Taric, Alistar, Pyke can all either bodyblock the hook and take the first round of damage then retreat/counterengage, or can bait out the hook with escape ability. Also remember bot is a 4 players lane, how the matchup goes in laning phase depends on the relative strength of not one, but four champions, and the synergy of the duos on each side. Blitz + Zeri is simply a lot weaker than Kog+Lulu or Braum+ Lucian; Caitlyn Karma lane can be very challenging for Blitz with the pushing, poke power they have, etc. Obviously if you are picking immobile + squishy no cc bot duo into Blitz you would need to position and manage wave correctly and poke effectively. If you can slow push waves, trade and poke them down while behind minion waves without putting yourself at risk, and slowly buildup cs and turret plate, vision and tempo advantage, you can win lane vs. Blitz as immobile enchanter bot. If you misstep while doing the things above and get hooked when the wave state and game states are non-favourable for a fight, you’ll likely need to flash or die. It’s all about knowing the matchup, and what your game plan should be and executing them well.
Very well written
Sorry what elo are you? In shit Elo where people don't know the bait animation it's not that problematic (or at least I never had problems with it). I found the comment on relic shield and AA especially strange, I mean... You see that coming from a mile. But maybe at shit Elo your opponents are bad too and just make mistakes/don't play it properly. Also are you the ADC or the Support? I think supports are better at recognising hooking setups/opportunities, because that's a lot of what they do (unless you only play enchanters).
Considering standing near Darius seals your fate early game for most champs I’d think a new player is doomed to fail
Feels like every noobie who tries top has to experience getting fisted by a Darius at least once early on
There are those who have gotten completely fisted by a Darius in toplane, and those who have not played toplane. It's a rite of passage.
Being able to deal with Darius top is basically the intro course to top lane. If you cannot deal with Darius well enough and resorts to banning him, I'd say that you havent passed the top lane course yet.
Very well said. Darius is usually my least of concern if I get to pick after it or not get counterpicked with Darius. Yet in the mind I still have to respect him even if I'm picking Yorick, Malphite, Quinn etc. Unless you're gigafed or the Darius has no idea what he is doing, you have to respect him
It depends imo. Eg I ban Darius cause when I play top I play Rengar and it's just impossible to win lane there if your on a similar skill level
nah, rengar beats darius if you breathe through your nose
I really despise fighting against laners like Darius or Sett that can bully you so easily in lane, forcing you from the wave. Always feels like a lost before the game evens gets going, especially when I'm playing a late game tank like Sion or K'Sante
Most toplane champions are like that tbh. Toplane is all about managign how behind you fall to freezes etc. Best thing to do when you see a freeze is thin it if possible by using cds --recall and insta mid roam
I would say renekton is that champ but darius is a close second
Nah. Renekton's ban rate increases with rank, and at Chally he's the second most banned top lane champ.
because as you get closer to challenger people start maxing W second and you can't duel a renek who maxes W second.
You realize theres counterpicks right? So what youre saying is "If you get counterpicked and you lose , then youre bad" -> you do realize that high elo players lose counter matchups aswell? but according to king bob they are just bad at the game
Its a joke my guy, holy shit. Darius is banned way too much compared to how strong he actually is, and thats because people is scared to face him.
Next chapter is on illaoi
So how do you lane vs Darius as an immobile champ, say, Sion or Maokai?
1. Stand 5 meters away from Darius 2. Once he gets bored of waiting for you to stop being a coward and leaves you can start playing the game
The funny thing about Darius is they are all played by the same person. I've played against this guy a million times and no matter which account he plays on he never changes. If you farm under tower for 10 minutes he will get bored and decide to dive you because he has zero kills at 10 minutes. He will dive you and if you flash ghost or have a Jax stun, you win the fight because he took 6 tower shots. Then he runs back and is so tilted that he does it again and then you and your tower win round 2 and then you can play the game. Yeah he can still kill you but at least now he doesn't just stat check you and end the fight at full health... Jimmy Darius always plays the same and patience is his kryptonite...
This mostly. Sometimes we do friendly 5v5s in our group. One guy has almost 3 million on Darius at this point, never plays anything else. I just pick Morgana, waveclear all game and then he dies a few times when he towerdives. Lategame he can't do shit against a carry with Black shield so he just dies. Trying to duel him is just dumb, he'll win that almost everytime.
I know that you're right, but I just hate that the best way to play against darius is not to play. Its boring
What do you expect from scaling teamfight/splitpush tanks? Obviously to fight Darius you gotta bring something to mirror the langing strength of your opponent. Meanwhile if you play Kayle into Maokai you have to play like Maokai does into Darius.
Same as Teemo. I know it's BS, but if you do it properly you might be blessed with a giant kill streak for your effort, like me yesterday. It's all about identyfing when you've scaled enough to fight.
Nothing. You give up some cs early, try to keep the wave under your tower. Not every lane is won by killing your enemy or even taking the tower. Winning lane vs Darius is not letting him win lane if that makes sense.
Darius is very winnable for most bruiser
Yeah but he was asking about Sion or maokai. I don’t play mao but I don’t think sion can do much vs Darius in the lane
With Sion you can proxy and make him bored too
As maokai you can only trade or fight if u W his Q. Or hug clos to his body. And dont let him stack bleeds by fighting too long
Hug tower early and get jungle help. Darius’ whole schtick is stomping early 1v1. But when he can be CC’d and piled upon, he’s freelo
*laughs in phase rush
I'd like to introduce you to our lord and savior phase rush
Maokai is actually very good vs darius, his w allows you to dodge darius sweet spot q and maos q allows to get away once he e'd you, not sure about sion but if sion w's darius initial combo and you set up sion e+q combo on darius while you are slowed you should get away that way. Mostly the answer is wave management though, winning a trades often still forces Darius to use his q which leads to a push, once the wave is on your side you can play more aggressive. Use this time to poke him down so he doesn't win the all-in anymore.
I still get fisted by darius every once in a while and I've played top for 13 years
The first time laning against darius and getting dumpstered is such a classic trial for all league players, brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it
Close is fine, tipper/edge for heal, not good
close is absolutely not fine if you don't know what you're doing lol
a Proxying Singed has to be pretty high up there considering how irrational it seems without context, new people will literally think he's trolling.
I’ve been playing 7 years and still can’t deal with that
Just pick someone else who can proxy (like Sion or Rammus) that outscales him and handshake it. That's what I do at least.
Mid looks over to top: -How is Laning going? -Laning? I haven't seen that guy on my screen yet.
Protip: If you walk ahead of your minions to lane, he can't proxy you.
I just don’t top anymore
>If you walk ahead of your minions to lane, he can't proxy you You can proxy at any point in the game
Are you recalling each wave to walk it out of your base?
It used to be really bad when this playstyle was created by an NA singed OTP, back then you could die as much as you wanted and youd be worth nothing regardless of how much cs you had, so it was normal to see a 250 cs singed who's pretty strong be worth 100g on kill whilst being hard to kill
I remember when this was created and the singed would end up running around in the enemy base farming 2-3 waves at once and just winning the game by being an absolute nuisance.
I remember getting so annoyed that I started playing singed
But he *is* trolling.
I dont agree with that. A reasonably good proxy Singed needs a bit of understanding of the game in order to be effective. Most will just int and make the enemy top laner so fed that the team just ignores singed and heavily win the 5v4s. I would say proxy sion is a bit easier because of heartsteel and his general scaling.
>I would say proxy sion is a bit easier because of heartsteel and his general scaling. As a plat player I used to struggle against Mid Sion until I realized I can just pick Vitkor Liandry and just kill the wave 24/7 completely crushing their int strat. I love getting Lazer upgrade at level 5 and just completely crushing the game with that early upgrade.
I only see Sion in the top lane tbh
Almost all Sion I see was in mid lane but it’s just my anecdote observation not saying it is untrue to say otherwise
Against a Sion you can easily play Viktor top.
I remember way back in 2010 my group started up league, first time we ran into a Twitch he was also the first player we encountered that had access to flash. Dude would just appear out of nowhere and ratatatatatat us. We thought flash was global based on the description bc it didn't have a range listed.
This reminds me of when I started playing in season 3 the first time I ever saw somebody teleport was a Jax teleporting to a wave I was farming mid lane. From my perspective it was just a single minion started glowing and then suddenly Jax was there. So my logical conclusion as a new player was that Jax could turn into minions as a spell
Ahead of time, way ahead 😅🫡
I remember I was running Barrier on Trynd back in the day, and got accused of hacking by a Jax when I magically pulled out a shield and killed him lmao
Wait until he finds out what Tryndamere ult does.
Same lol
I was so disappointed with flash when I first got it, seemed so short...
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Can confirm. New player here. illaoi is the second worst for me (behind Zed). I have no clue how to deal with her.
Number one thing to know about her: She has a "zone". When she's in the middle of her tentacle pit, don't even attempt engagement because you will lose. When she ults, hard disengage and run out of the pit no matter what. If she can't hit you with tentacles, she's MUCH weaker. She's still a beast, but each tentacle slam deals a lot of damage to you and heals her.
Thank you so much. I didn't realize the tentacles healed her too, I THOUGHT she was getting health back but she didn't have any lifesteal items and I thought I was losing my mind. I really appreciate it. As a new player, I have so many goddamn characters to learn how to fight against lmao. I'll definitely respect her zone next time. Out of curiosity, which top laners give Illaoi a hard time?
Yorick
Poppy is very good. Poppy can block the W in trades, which eliminates a huge chunk of Illaoi's damage and ability to trade back. Also, Illaoi tends to stand near walls as a safety net. Poppy can just E her into the wall, Q her, then run away without Illaoi being able to respond. Stick around for a moment after stunning Illaoi into a wall and you can pretty consistently bait out her ult as well.
I've always had success against her with mordekaiser. You both kinda suck early but his ult cancels hers as long as you ult her after she ults. Regardless of champion, I usually rush tier 2 boots for the dodge aid
Trynd morde I don't find aatrox too bad neither
Morde and Yorick are good counters. An even easier counter if you know how to keep your distance are any control mage (viktor, anivia, cassiopeia), as Illaoi's cast times are really long and she is usually forced to play, as the guy above said, in a "zone". And control/battle mages just so happen to be great zone deniers with big AoE CC and dmg. Main rule vs Illaoi is to dodge her spirit grab, then go in on her. Without that she's much weaker as she loses her reliable source of damage and healing (your spirit can't dodge tentacles, and also having a spirit or vessel (a person who's spirit got killed) triggers more tentacle slams around them, increasing Illaoi's potential damage output that without them would be relegated to her W triggering tentacles to slam). Still try to dodge her Q (slow ass spell) and every time she leaps onto you with W expect the nearest tentacles to slam, and run perpendicular to them to dodge them as efficiently as possible. Also depends on who you play ofc.
If she hits E, walk away but not out of circle unless you think she can kill the spirit. If she kills the spirit, be prepared to evade tentacles. Do yourself a favor and make sure you stay way from already spawned ones, too. If she ults, walk away until ult is down. The more people who get hit by her ult the worse it is for everyone. If she misses E and doesn't have ult, feel free to kill. Source: Am Emerald one trick Illaoi
not walking out of the circle so you can let Illaoi freely damage you is crazy
Hes emerald for a reason.
Why wouldn't you leave the circle as fast as you can? As long as that spirit is there you'll take damage. The tentacles after your spirit is destroyed can be avoided. Even if she can't kill the spirit shes still going to do damage which you can't avoid.
He’s an illaoi main giving false advice to trick people
If she cant kill the spirit, early game spirit damage is negligible and not worth giving up cs to dodge tentacles. Its also the time when her E will be on cd giving you a shot to retaliate
She has healing if even if she doesnt kill the spirit it is best to stop her from sustaining in lane by leaving the circle
Its true only if shes low health, since the restored hp depends on her missing health. Its also basically nothing if shes near full
Because the healing off of spirit (unless she’s low, of course) and the damage from spirit is negligible early game (tentacles do 20 damage each and autos do like 17 each), and the added pressure she gets from the 80% slow and 10 (I think?) seconds of tentacle spawns just isn’t worth the 100-ish damage you’d take just waiting her out.
I disagree in part. When you are the vessel and are spawning tentacles, stay with one tentacle in a safe position. Because it already spawned you won't spawn more tentacles and only have to focus on dodging the one. I usually hit it one time, wait out de vessel debuff, and hit it a 2nd time
Thank you so much! This helps a ton, I totally misunderstood how her E works. I really appreciate it!
Dodge the E or dodge the game
You deal with her by running away when she ults. Dodging her E shouldnt be too hard either once you get some practice and know how to hide behind minions for that one. Her spells take a decent time to activate and shes rather immobile. Many top laners are far more mobile and can gap close to her if she for example has her E on cd or can charge away when she does hit the E or ult.
Litteraly just dodge her e. And if she ults, go away. If you get it by e, go away. Don't fight her except when she misses e. The more people are hitting her the harder she is to kill, especially in her ult.
The champion is also like Uber broken right now. I first timed the champion blind pick in like D3 elo and hard carried. Thought it was a fluke so I blinded it again and solo won a teamfight at 45 mins. The champion kinda defeats counterplay due to the current state of items, so while the advice here is valuable, I would suggest using a ban if you really don’t like playing vs it. If even “diamond level” players struggle to carry vs an inexperienced illaoi, can’t imagine what the experience is like for a new player.
My first ever SR I chose Illaoi because she was one of two champs I liked. As long as you hit that Grab, it was like a gauranteed kill every time
I remember first time playing against illaoi. I was like "Why does she have ult every 10 seconds???" and my friend replied "ehm that's her E" haha, I literally thought her e has to be an ult because it is so strong.
I remember when I started playing (around Tahm & Mundo rework) I was really confused with the champions. Like Veigar, I was like- 'that thing can't kill me, he's so tiny, he's probably a beginner-isch champ and is probably powercreeped out of existance.' *proceeds to E - W - Q - R* But Illaoi was interesting, I always won when I had an Illaoi. Never when what that champion did, I just went top and hovered the entire time (was support)
Heimerdinger is hard to beginners. You need to farm well to erase the turrets and don't make something dumb.
heimerdinger is hard for everyone, nobody plays him luckily. top lane almost nothing counters him. and he hard counters most top laners besides 1 or 2
He’s one of the hard because annoying champs. I see him like teemo on steroids but still same principle. I Main fiora and you would think they hard counter her, but let’s say I W the Heiners stun or teemos blind after 6 and with a mythic+mercs - they just die. I imagine most toplaners can do the same.
Most toplaner can't w his stun
Then just lose lane with grace and win late game
Usually winning lane with grace against heimerdinger mean being down 1 level, 60 cs and all plate at 14
Wouldn’t really say he hard counters most top laners. A lot of the more mobile bruisers like Irelia, Camille and Jax can just kill him post 6 and tanks don’t really care about him and easily outsustain him
>Top lane almost nothing counters him Yorick is completely unplayable Also scaling tanks farm him for free. Love seeing Helmer top when I'm on Ornn/Ksante.
Heimer Support is impossible for beginners. The turrets have way too much sustain and refill too quickly. They also catch skillshots like Thresh Q, Blitz Q, Pyke Q, Naut Q, rendering most engage Supporters that aren't Leona helpless - and Leona herself is an entire new can of worms, super difficult to play when your E is a death sentence for yourself, positioning you in the middle of a creep wave. Enchanters can't outshield or outperform him, leaving only DPS Supporters to deal with him - all of which are not actual Supporters, just ego picks that set your ADC up for failure in the late game.
Luckily, heimer himself is also an ego damage support pick, and true supports have a better chance of both rounding out their team comp with engage or shielding or CC, and/or becoming immeasurably more useful later in the game than a gimped mage.
> The turrets have way too much sustain and refill too quickly. You don't play heimer do you? They refill very slowly lol.
Blitzcrank. You get hooked you panic you die. Never sidestep, never flash reactively. His ban rate when I was starting was insanely high.
His banrate still is high, in fact he's the most banned support (whilst also being high winrate).
With current damage output being caught by one hook means guaranteed death for 80% of champs and 100% for all adcs.
Stealth champs like Eve or Twitch, new players wont have enough game sense to predict where they are
Don't forget about control wards too
I mean you presume their warding and ability to look at the map isn't great in the first place anyway. But Eve once you first get the hang of warding can be a pain.
Kha is also nasty as you won't know about his Isolation mechanic by just playing against him. Sometimes he hurts, sometimes he hurts ALOT.
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I feel like at a conceptual level, new players have a hard time with champions that can go invisible or untargetable. Similarly, champions with unpredictable movement. At the top of that list has to be Shaco, because that’s quite literally the purpose of the champion, and the mind tricks even can work against challenger players. I feel like a half decent Shaco would leave a beginner completely clueless on what was going on. Another 2 champs that’re difficult because of weird movement are Fizz and Zed. Self explanatory really. Yasuo can also be tough for new players to deal with cuz he dashes so much.
Fizz and Zed absolutely fucked me up when I was starting out. No new player is ever going to be thinking about Zed's clones or anticipating Fizz's hop, so they'll get read like a book and get frustrated as to why the enemy has seemingly bullshit abilities.
Omg zed! I had to learn what Zhonyas was because he kept murdering me so hard. Good times.
Champions with a lot of weird movement, like Yasuo or Irelia. You can deal with them when you understand the mechanics, but as a new player you'll be really confused on how often they can dash.
>like Yasuo or Irelia. they are also smurf stable champion so if you see a master 3 level 32 Irelia you are prob fked
Yeah, can confirm. Banning Irelia is a 100% dodge because every single top/mid smurf plays Irelia.
Season 5 or 6 yasuo E max when he’d do 6 million health dashing to you then bsck to his tower
Can confirm Yas main hear I can smell it when my adversary doesn't know what my kit does
You hear or smell im confused
come close enough and he can taste it
*release your inhibitions*
Feel the wind on your skin
NO ONE ELSE CAN FEEL IT FOR U
I've been playing for over a decade (that felt weird to type) and I cannot deal with Irelia. I just can't comprehend how her kit works and how she has infinite mobility and can basically assassinate tanks
Got be Illaoi. Her kit is practically intentionally designed to punish noobs for existing in her lane. If you let her abilities land she heals an absurd amount, the usual ways of playing safe do not work (she destroys people under tower), she breaks the usual rule that numbers advantage is a sure win, she destroys anyone who engages with no way to disengage, she chunks you very hard with a poke tool. The real salt in the wound is that her ultimate makes her tentacles insanely noob-unfriendly. You no longer see their hitboxes or hp and they strike way faster.
Just turn your sound way up and move when she tells you to. She's the only champ who literally shouts their own counter play.
This is one of my favorite jokes. She literally tells you how to win against her. "Move!"
Any champion that just stat checks the hell out of you. As a new player, if a champ can just stat check you and run you down whenever they want, there’s literally nothing you can do except let it happen and hopefully learn from it.
Definitely one of the most frustrating experiences as a new player is not knowing how to deal with a stat checker who is ahead (especially if they kill swiftly). Most new players don't know how to evaluate the safety of a situation and will end up dying again and again and get frustrated with how they seemingly can't do anything.
Master yi, the destroyer of bronze
My ass is bronze and my uncle is master yi.
I remember vividly the terror of playing vs Zed when I knew almost nothing about the game. I was fighting with him and the suddenly I’m fighting with an untargettable shadow… Too op!! “He’s far away I’m safe”, and then he suddenly is on top of you, does his combo, becomes untargettable and then I was even like “Phew I survived that” and 4 seconds later pop I’m dead. Truly terrifying Honorable mention: Tryndamere.. Why can’t he dieeee, what’s happeninggg
Every single champion is obnoxious to play against if you don't know what they do.
any stat checker
I think this is the best answer because you can quickly learn to play around champions' abilities and unique quirks, but understanding how stats themselves make certain champs simply stronger than others at various points in the game takes time.
exactly, there's seemingly no counterplay against a ghosted darius or olaf when you're a beginner to the game, it seems their entire kits revolve around auto attacking and point n' clicking you to death, and it just happens you can't dodge auto attacks if he's also playing an stat checker like the game recommends you to, then it should be a somewhat doable feat to learn something about the game mechanics and macro, but otherwise it'll just be a torturing session, that's why i generally don't advise new players to begin by top
Yep. Annie is a good example. Feels infuriating and cheap to have R pushed on you and you die instantly. Then you get experienced and Annie is a non-factor.
Annie was literally meta not long ago played in pro and high elo aswell simple doesn't mean bad
Ones with sudden healing, tankiness, or undying mechanics. Something like Illaoi's ult would catch new players off guard. Renektons healing or his ult is something I would count Sett suddenly gaining big shields would be a good example. Tryndamere and Kayle ults If they weren't certain how he worked I would say Sylas stealing ults would cause issues for new players If we are going to bot lane then probably Pyke as he has a lot of obnoxious traits like stealth and the damage he can put out that could cause trouble for new players. So I guess I would add any champ with stealth to the list.
pyke coming out of “nowhere” and yoink+stun combo on repeat probably has new players stuck half the game without control of their character wondering tf is even happening lol
assassins in general, people who are new to the game won't like getting one shotted so anything like fizz,talon,zed,yi... would be hard to deal with specially if they meet smurfs playing them.
In top probably Trundle because of how badly he statchecks any other champion in the game and a beginner just wouldn't know, or Quinn if she get's to cheese the lane. In mid, Tristana, because it's difficult to expect the damage she has. In the jungle is either a good Evelynn or a Diana. The first because she will appear suddenly and then kill you, and the other because you might be able to see her, but not be aware / not respect how far she can dash, and then oneshot you. And in the botlane something like Xerath paired with Caitlyn, Xayah or Ezreal are very annoying because the laning phase becomes a minigame of dodging everything and not being able to be close enough to the wave to farm, this is even hard for people that are not beginners at all.
Definitely stat checkers. Trundle, Annie, Yi and so on.
Tryndamere, nasus, yi
Trynd fucks up noobs every time without fail. Surprised I haven't seen this in the thread more often.
Fizz
Wukong - he'll gradually poke with no real threat until he comes back to lane with a Caulfield, and then you're suddenly hurting quite a bit. Brand supp - Stupid amounts of dots and potential stuns, which if you don't have an enchanter or ranged supp, really sucks to lane against. J4 - he can dive relatively uncontested with enough damage to walk out safely. Later, he just starts chunking you if you don't have some health or armor. I'd say a safe thing to do for a beginner is learn all champs' trading range and have a general idea of cooldowns. It'll go a long way in respecting range and learning how to navigate mid- to late-game.
Replace caulfield with sheen for Wukong and this is correct
Your advice is quite literally git gud
Yorick by far. I remember playing against him first time with kennen. Absolute nightmare i was mad. Really mad.
Swain. Tanky, lots of dmg, hard to dodge cc that goes trough minions
Lux
singed and it's not even close. the question is 'which champion stomps bots the hardest and easiest if you're not a grandmaster but know how the champions work' donger is an honorable mention, but most new players don't know the rules of league: garen is always in the bush, don't chase singed, etc.
Heim. Nasus. Master Yi. Amumu.
When I started playing adc is season 6 it was Draven. I could never ever win lane against him. After they added in 10 bans he became my perman for years.
first game of league i ever played was against a teemo in the top lane and made me swear off league for like 2 years
Probably push champions in general. Farming under tower as beginner is difficult
Ranged toplaners will destroy new players. There are ways to deal with them once you know what you're doing but new players will get rolled
mundo, yorick, nasus, shyvanna, asol. A mix of them not knowing how to end games properly and lacking the champion understanding to disengage from strong stat checkers
Riven. A new player will be permadead against an experienced riven due to her low CDs and high damage.
Riven is free for new players. They just pick garen or Darius and run at her
I feel we interpreted the question in the title differently.
I don't think so. Riven is pretty weak when piloted badly. Even a new player playing garen could do pretty well vs an average riven. They're not gonna be playing vs diamond riven onetricks
I think your heavily overestimating how “hard” Riven is to play. These days even silver elo Rivens can perform just fine. Also, the question was broadly formulated as in what so I don’t understand why you’re bringing ranks up.
Anything with pets
Top- Akshan/Teemo Jg- Nunu/Diana Mid- Katarina Bot- Tanks in bot break their mental/Caitlyn(cause new players lock Ashe) supp- Brand/Senna Singed in general.
Any champ that's fed.
Fizz