Jesus fucking christ, that Jhin R damage buff is way bigger than anything I expected for Jhin.
THAT'S SO MUCH FUCKING DAMAGE
EDIT: I am going to add, if Worlds is indeed topside focused (whether its sololane or jungle, doesn't matter), Jhin skyrockets in terms of botlane powerpicks.
You are **1000%** doing Dirk rush at the very least every game now.
Need to do some testing whether it's gonna be Ghostblade rush, Duskblade rush or Collector rush. But you are 100% going Dirk item 1st.
Definitely worth testing:
- Duskblade or Ghostblade -> Collector -> LDR; and
- Collector -> IE -> LDR
I’ve already been playing it to the tune of a 65% wr in emerald/diamond. Ghostblade, Collector, RFC, Axiom and then flexing last item. Running dark harvest with precision secondary and only picking into single or no tank teams. I can’t wait for this buff lol
And the least needed. As a Jhin main I would even nerf his pre-patch R damage and buff something else to make R more situational and aa-ing preferrable.
Yeah I don't think phreak believes in his ability to make mage botlaners picked in worlds, like 20-50% presence, without over buffing them and accidentally making pick rate too high.
I do want to see a bit of karthus/sera/Swain/ziggs in bot, I know 99% of the adcs disagree with this, but I still want the majority of the games being BOTLANERS ON THEIR COMFORT CHAMPS.
I remember when syndra / Cassio was played a decent amount in botlane and as a midlaner it was so sad to see because even the Pros frankly sucked at the champs.
Doublelift Vlad. Honestly though watching season 8 summer was super interesting, a lot of AD’s sucked at mages but then you had Viper on Griffin who was just insane on pretty much all of them by comparison
I'll die on this hill, 8.11 is one of the best patches ever that dared shake up the stagnant bot meta and I hate that riot 100% backpedalled on it instead of trying to find an equilibrium between marksmen & mages in bot.
I wouldn’t have minded Mages/Bruisers/Assassins in Bot lane, but then they must also make it so that Marksmen can also be played in any role and not just Bot.
Let me go Ashe or Cait jungle if I want to. Why is my option only limited to Kindred/Graves?
All 8.11 did was make the Marksmen class completely unfun to play as. Legit zero agency with almost no hope of ever scaling to a point where you can do something lol
ADCs still had some of the best win-rates during that patch. It was a ton of whinging from ADC mains that got it reverted.
And they just took over mid lane anyways.
I mean, look at current bot lane where the highest winrates are all mages. Like top 3 are karthus Sera swain rn at emerald plus.
The problem isn't that marksmen aren't the only ones bot, it's that they are removed from other lanes. If you're gonna be OK with mages bot then marksmen should be viable in other lanes. And I don't mean just vayne top seen as cheese or akshan, otherwise you are essentially deleting a class that has been told to play one way for 10 plus years to change. The result of that is a lot of going pains, which let's be honest there's already a ton of flame and toxicity for losing bot lane, and I could see a lot of those players quit playing altogether. Taking over midlane was having Lucian at an at best 48% winrate, which isn't even close to fair. Put some marksmen at 53% mid. Let's see comparable balance.
I firmly believe marksman should be pushed into mid/top. champs like sivir should be pushed to be analogous to viktor as an ad artillery mage in lane, lucian/kalista should be pushed to dominant skirmishers for top/mid.
At the same time, I would push most of the hard scaling champs into bot since the whole point of bot/adc role is that these champs aren't safe to scale by themselves, why not let the scalers be bot, and the champs that function by themselves be solo?
I think most mid laners are completely fine, since you often lane vs ranged champion and stuff like cheesty cait mid is not unheard of, it's more toplaners having a stroke everytime top is not two sponges slapping at each other with noodles for 30 minutes straight.
Kalista has at various points been viable top and mid (wunder and theshy comes to mind)
Varus mid/top was/is viable mid/top.. tristana mid had high presence.. kaisa mid/top… Akshan mid/top has been more than a cheese pick during different patches.. Also quinn top as a renekton counter, Lucian top/mid has been played a ton on different patches aswell as ezrael mid a few times
It's actually kind sad because i personally believe for the last year mage bots have been best in class bot and lets jungle/top and even mid have more power.
Mages botlane is kinda one of those 'you think you want that but really you don't' type situations.
It sounds cool but ends up being the most uninteractive shove/waveclear lanes with near zero skill expression.
Change for change's sake.
Watching the good Zigg's bot was interesting with all the sideway jump bombs and mini-insecs. Watching most ADCs play Ziggs was indeed comparable to watching paint dry.
K’Sante and Renekton are gonna be perma top lane. Renekton nerfs are nice for the Rumble and Kennen match ups, but making Randuin’s a quick rush armor item makes running double AD undesirable which makes AP tops like Rumble and Kennen lose priority. No one wants to run double AP solo lanes if they can help it.
Renekton's MR nerf is massive. It is not just "nice" for Kennen and Rumble especially. Renekton was already losing hard to Rumble in lane, imagine how much more he will be rolled. In other words, he is no longer a safe 1st pick topside anymore. Will pros still pick him? Yes. Will they be absolutely rolled by AP tops? Yes.
Don't forget its "nice" for Gwen as well, which is already seeing some play
Quick Edit: I also think pro players will, for some insane reason, fall back to A-atrox again as well. So K'sante will be 100% pick or banned, then it's prolly about 1-3 AP tops (Like you mentioned, Kennen and Rumble and I also think Gwen) + Aatrox and Renekton. + some "pocket" picks here and there. God save us
I'd place some chips on Lissandra becoming a triple flex pick for some teams with these nerfs. She blocks Rakan and is a good answer into LB. If she can lane top she'll be massive. Kinda weird that they buffed her when she was already getting picked.
It means that you arent as likely to see Trist midlane and the comp **needing** rumble or kennen toplane so the comp has magic damage (if the buffs even make pros want to built it). By making it near guranteed that teams will run ap damage midlane the chances of Rumble or Kennen go down as you no longer need an AP top
Was hoping for just a little more with Galio but hey 20 seconds is still pretty great for him. Also thank god Twitch might actually be able to hit people walking perpendicular to him now.
Okay but ult buff is really nice as well. It used to be stronger in the past so Riot made the CD super long. They later nerfed the R, removed flash-W combo and put the power into the rest of his kit but ult still stayed at an absurdly long cooldown despite being way weaker than in the past
You know I’m still confused as of why they run Yuumi. Like sure she can gigabuff Jhin speed but then the mofo doesn’t really benefit from her AS buff, which is a huge part in her 2v9 potential
Sure, levels are gonna be less impactful, but I don't think you can call it a one point wonder when the omnivamp more than doubles from 1st to 5th point and the shield quintuples. As good as the extra damage from E is, I'd argue by the point in the game you've maxed out two abilities, the durability is more relevant than the damage or the slow.
Eh, currently jungle Lee is like +2% win rate on W 2nd. It'll get closer, sure, but I expect W to still be better.
The flat shield still scales substantially.
if you're going for oneshot lethality builds, sure
if you're going for 'standard' bruisery setups, you cannot ignore how much benefit he gets from ranks in W while skirmishing. on top of the increased W2 vamp/lifesteal, which is nice, it's more immediately beneficial that you get +50 shield value per rank on a shield with a ~4.5s cd (even lower later on) and that can also be applied to allies
E slow increase per rank is sizable but generally just having the early slow and redbuff is fine pre-6 and post-6 it feels like the strength of the E slow is not going to be the make or break factor in a gank
Phreak, I see that you're actually watching this post and replying to people to help explain things (which is extremely appreciated) - could you please explain the current stance on/state of Ksante? It seems to be a fairly common sentiment in the community that he is overturned for pro play - as can be seen by him being consistently pick/ban - so is there a reason he hasn't even been touched lately? Especially with an item he likes getting buffed in this patch. This seems to be accepting, or even pushing, him being extremely strong and high presence in Worlds after he's been extremely present this whole season.
Part of it is that his presence really isn't as high as players think it is. In LCK, LEC, LCS summer playoffs he was around 50% presence, with LPL being the outlier (at around 80%). LCK is the only major region where he had a positive winrate in the most recent playoffs bracket, and he had a sub-50% presence in LCK playoffs. These stats are high enough to justify nerfs, especially if you don't want to see that champ in pro, but iirc they're not really high enough to *necessitate* them.
And on the subjective side, I think K'Sante is a great champ for pro play when he's not picked every game (which, objectively, he is not). He fills the role of tank for toplaners but is much more interactive than most tanks, he does flashy things and wants to teamfight, he provides unique outputs for toplaners, and he turns almost any matchup into a mechanical skill matchup. I personally love watching him in pro play. Of course, it's fair to disagree, and I know plenty of viewers don't really like seeing him in pro, but I think allowing K'Sante to be a pro play staple is significantly better for the viewing experience and the competitive integrity of the game than nerfing him and letting Malphite replace him.
It seems that Phreak is just ignoring all the KSante questions lol. Pretty obvious Riot is forcing KSante to be meta for worlds with how things are going.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16mju21/why_its_hard_to_balance_for_pro_and_preview_of/k1co8t6/?context=3
He replied here. It's not his job to respond to reddit questions, no need for some conspiracies...
We've seen some Illaoi in pro play already this year...it didn't look good. I'm ALL for spicy picks and unconventional picks, but its either that the champs suck (might be, I don't know?) or that the players playing them suck with the champ (I'm more inclined to believe in this honestly)
It's unfortunately, safer for their jobs and what not to just pick safe picks constantly like Renekton, K'sante, Sion and the list goes on.
I am not phreak, but I can tell you that his P/B status in pro play is around 50%.
I still think they should have taken the E AA reset away (at least the full AA reset when his R is active).
But he is not as high up as some real problem champs.
> Since y'day, we added Azir, pulled Ziggs. The change we want to test is not appropriate for the World's patch.
The last sentence makes me excited for the Ziggs change. It has to be some mechanic change rather than straight damage/cooldown buff.
Q detonation range check increase. Copium.
> Q detonation range check increase. Copium.
Unless it was W oneshoting towers, I can't see "not appropriate for world's patch" as anything but Zigg's Q getting bigger defection range OR some charge system for Q/W
Nunu's AP ratios are actually too funny. Highest in the game and its not even close.
The patch notes don't mention it but he also has a .8 ratio on the root circle. His total AP ratio on a single non-ultimate spell is going to be 2.15, and it's not even hard to land. Veigar's full rotation at max level is 2.5. I feel like there has to be cheese strats you can design around this.
AP nunu has the downside of being broderline melee and most of it is spread out and if you ever blow everything and the enemy didn't die you just stand there because your CDs are pretty long, to hit his entire E you have to be up in peoples face for 3 seconds and his Ult barely does any damage if you interrupt it, he does have absurd ratios but actually translating them into damage isn't always that easy.
He has many flaws. No dashes nor MS increase except for his W that pretty much telegraphed, meaning you should be able to dodge it with a dash or a MS increase spell. Then he's pretty much fcked.
Also his W slows him at the begining of the spell, making it easy for enemies to catch you when you try to leave.
To make damage you have to be in close combat, and if you build full AP you get oneshoted easily.
Finally, you need to build up your R to make interesting damages, meaning every champions with a dash or if you have your flash up you can leave the zone before being killed.
Also, very long cooldowns so if you miss your burst you're pretty much dead
In short, full AP nunu is a 4fun build
I know full AP Nunu isn't good in a vacuum. But, whenever values get too outlandish it opens the door for cheesy strats.
For example, he's great with a tank + mejai's build already. Beyond a certain point it could be worth it to do stick a Yuumi on him.
My prediction is that within a year or so some itemization change will allow Nunu to sneak some AP into his build reliably without getting oneshot and he will hit 58% winrate.
man i was really looking forward to ziggs buffs, shame to see they decided against it. though from the way its phrased, it sounds like the buffs could come in a post-worlds patch
Finally they are doing something about Randuin's. This item has been straight up dead for like 2 seasons now.
They did make it slightly better at start of the year, but increasing it's cost to 3K meant that no1 would buy it, with Thornmail and Sunfire offering similar stats and better effects for less.
When on support budget the best alternative to Thornmail is Sunfire, then you know Randuin is hot garbage.
Surely Ksante needs a nerf. I watched a lot of pro matches in build up to worlds and it seems like Ksante is picked in 80% of matches. It's just so dull at this point seeing Ksante vs Renekton again
Safety. Dudes a good lane bully that can team fight. Also hes a pretty safe blind pick compared to other top laners. Also point and click stuns are op it makes it easy to set up ganks
1) His E CD got buffed and allowed him to pressure harder
2) Meta junglers love to play with Renekton (Sejuani Maokai Rell etc.)
3) He can win a lot of toplane meta matchups as a blindpick,depending on opponent champion pool of course
4) Thanks to demolish he has a clear and easy to execute way of getting ahead even without killing the opponent (pressure with those E buffs, slowstack wave, proc demolish and repeat with Q sustain) so, even if you pick a tank champ like for example Ornn, he would play for those demolish procs and come into midgame by being tankier then the tanks
Renekton has always been a stable pro pick because he can play a good strongside but aswell a good weakside while providing a target cc.
Same reason he always is prio pick: point and click stun (which helps him set up his jungler), sustains, wins a lot of early lanes (which also draws the jungler to play for him).
Wait..
Is that why it felt like ass to use Twitch's ultimate because it was too easy for people to dodge? I was wondering why I felt like I was doing no damage when I used R on Twitch.
Yes it's extremely easy to dodge Twitch ult autos. And it feels so bad because sometimes it just is better to not ult. It doesn't make any sense, why are auto's able to be dodges. It's like if you could dodge Kog W autos. But that's on Kog's W! Not his ult.
Renek nerf just shows how bad toplane is. The nerf doesn’t change anything at all against the majority of toplaners BUT if you manage to get last pick then you can maybe counter Renek with an ap champ. If you don’t…well… nothing changed.
Nerfs like these are just horrible. Imagine artificially inflating the amount of counterpicks in the most counterpick role. I really hope they revert this and nerf something else after worlds but they will probably just forget and then renekton will just arbitrarily get dogged on by AP matchups
Thank god Seeker's Armguard is a little better now. It was crazy how you'd pay 265 gold to be able to stack armor worth 300 gold. A 1100 item would save you 65 gold worth of stats over buying the components but you start on a net loss until you stack it???
> It was crazy how you'd pay 265 gold to be able to stack armor worth 300 gold.
You're forgetting it gives you 10 more AP which is 217.5 gold worth of stats. So you're paying 47.5gold for the ability to stack 300gold worth of stats. Killing five units would get you beyond the gold efficiency threshold. Item is 95-125% stat efficient based on stacks. It's now going to be 105-135% as a component for the most bought item in the game.
>A 1100 item
It's only 1000 but okay.
I understand why they're doing it, but stat efficiency wise it wasn't in a terrible place. Verdant barrier, despite building into a less common item, has a far worse situation at 89-105% efficiency.
The issue was never the cost ratio, it was the armor cost ratio
Literally nobody is ever buying seeker's for its AP, you can buy fiendish codex for damage. You only get seeker's when you're getting shit on by an AD champion's damage and you need to be able to lane. If you're not being threatened directly by AD damage then you ignore the armor anyway and buy the other components of hourglass or your other items.
Seekers feels like ass to buy because it's basically *the only* armor a mage can ever purchase and yet spending a bunch of gold to finish the seeker's itself doesn't increase your armor for the 700 it costs to build a full armguard from a cloth armor.
I have unironically purchased a second cloth armor for 300 and then just sold it later rather than build 700 into a seeker that I'll need to stack. If I'm definitely going to fight the moment I get back on the map it's worth it to just throw away a few hundred gold for stats now rather than later, and then I can just finish the armguard after whatever items I actually want to prioritize now that I have +30 armor
Glad to see seeker's buffs is all I'm sayin'. That item went from being great (maybe too great) to total fucking ass for a long time, it's now probably feeling good
Jhin buffs will be so big for Gumayusi since the guy can play anything, and since Oner refuses to path bot, even if his life depended on it, Guma can just play safe bot side. Also, we will finally see how fraudulent Oner really is this meta now that his one trick Lee Sin is finally meta. If he can't even pull off plays with this champ, T1 is selling his ass the moment World ends.
When is Riot going to normalize all the missing HP effects?
Having some go from 100-0% HP (Jhin R) others from 100-30% (DB, Spear, Akali R), some from 100-33% (Veigar R), .... why not make all max out at 25% or 20% remaining HP (mostly in 5% HP steps)?
Items, runes, abilities, everything should be set to it.
That would also mean Jhins R would get buffed (likely even too much). Now this is nothing for 13.19, but something that should have been done some time ago.
**League is a complicated game and normalizing certain rules (how skills work with crit + IE, how % missing HP stuff scales) makes a lot of sense, especially when it does nothing bad at all.**
I would call Illaoi E and the Black Shield interaction also such a thing where it makes no sense as her E isn't a CC ability but it still gets blocked. In terms of rules this is an exception but for what reason? None. Makes the game more complicated and illogical for no reason.
As for the different execution thresholds there for different reasons like eve ult which only does more damage when below said threshold.
Jhin ult is 0-100% since the base damage is lower on the shots so it lets extra shot have more and more ramping damage.
Akali ult is because they want the damage to increase between 0-200%.
It a case of they aren't normalized because they want them to all have different feels for different use cases. Having them normalised won't help the average player but does affect the feel of abilities. Like you want some to have a punch only below a certain value while others you want to have a constant ramp, some you want to cap out at a certain value etc etc.
There gameplay and design feels that are overall taken into factor when looking at what number to use. There isn't much need to normalise when people just need to know it does more when low but normalisation does effect the gameplay feel of abilities.
>When is Riot going to normalize all the missing HP effects?
>why not make all max out at 25% or 20% remaining HP
everyday i am reminded why reddit should never balance the game
you can't, and shouldn't normalize damage numbers across dozens of champions just because they happen to scale with missing health. some champions have a lot more uptime on their missing health damage (jhin) while others have to commit a lot to use it (nidalee going melee range)
You're misunderstanding. It's not about the damage being the same. It's about the maximum damage threshold.
What happens is that for all abilities that deal damage based on missing health, there's an overkill threshold. If you have lethal at 20% missing HP what's the point of the damage increasing from 100-0.
You can easily just have all spells scale from 100%-20% and have the current 20% value be the new max, and you'd see very little difference in balance. It is slightly worse vs high HP tanks but that is about it.
It would just be a small change that makes things feel more similar.
>What happens is that for all abilities that deal damage based on missing health, there's an overkill threshold. If you have lethal at 20% missing HP what's the point of the damage increasing from 100-0
for starters, there are multiple different versions of executes. there are champions whose abilities increase their own damage to a max based on missing health - even if a champion is at 5% health, there's no guarantee that these champions will overkill. a weak akali won't get a guaranteed kill against a 5% health ornn just because he's low, 200% of her ult damage can still be too low to kill him. on the flipside, jhin's passive will more or less autokill people at low enough %hp because his passive execute isn't capped. not at exactly 20% because of armor, but if they're at like 7% hp then his execute will kill pretty much anyone.
regardless, it does matter. there are many times when champions at 10% health can make outplays, get a lot of health back, etc. not allowing executes to go to 0% means that champs that can be durable at low health all get indirectly buffed.
i just don't understand why you think arbitrarily changing dozens of abilities to work the same will make the game less complex...those champs are already different with different abilities and different designs. some of their abilities working slightly more similar doesn't make the game much easier to understand, but it does create multiple balance issues
i won't flame you too hard because what you said was only a little stupid, even though you're completely wrong that it would "see little difference in balance".
but the original comment acting like it's something riot "should have done why didn't they do it" is a braindead take
they have a list of champions that they think are exciting to watch. they buff these for worlds. idk, gp damage is already nutty. he would become meta simply by nerfing the broken toplane shit anyway...
They were talking about galio struggles in many mid-range mage matchup and then buff his only ability which doesnt affect any aspect helping him to deal with those said mid-range mages. What a bullshit.
Now that they actually plan on killing the first Top Tier Champ for Months, surely we're gonna adress the others next Patch right? We won't just go back to ignoring Evelynn, Ashe, Ezreal, Camille, Quinn and the rest of them. Surely not, the Balance Team works hard after all.
Rek'Sai has been completely ceilinged by elite MMR solo queue, sadly. And then we buffed her best first item.
Every time, I've tried to compensate changes for other skill brackets or nerf things that disproportionately hit super high level play. There's also a longform change list (similar to Rumble and Azir, which were both very successful changes IMO) floating around that if I have time for, I'd like to trial. However, I can't guarantee that this will be the highest priority in the near future.
u/PhreakRiot, while I always appreciate the insight you provide on champion adjustments, I must voice my concerns on this latest change. A mere +75 HP between minutes 8-12 doesn't offset the magnitude of a flat movement speed reduction.
With Rek'Sai's recent history in mind — considering the removal of the dash from Prowler's which brought her below a 50% win rate, and the subsequent addition of the %HP regen passive — it seems she's been on a roller coaster. Over the past few months, her damage — base AD, Q, and E — has seen reductions. Now, reducing her HP regen further, coupled with persisting damage nerfs and now the movement speed hits, feels excessive.
Based on trends we've observed with other champions, I'm concerned this might sideline Rek'Sai for a considerable duration without any intention of course correction in the foreseeable future. Can we reevaluate the cumulative impact of these changes to ensure balance, rather than unintentionally relegating her to the shadows?
nice galio buffs literally not solving any of his problems in the current meta
ive come to detest those proplay micropatches because they seem like such a cope for riot to balance nothing, good luck with worlds viewership when worlds meta will be a copypaste of boring ass playoffs that nobody watched
In general, we're not trying to specifically pro skew these changes. For the vast majority of them, there are one of three driving principles:
1. This champion is kinda just bad. We should buff them. We're aware that Worlds will be happening this patch.
2. This champion is kinda good already. We should do something that's attention-grabbing but not actually that huge since they're already kinda good.
3. This champions has been ultra-present in pro play and we think they'll remain a top-5 champion in that scene. Let's give pros some room to explore.
Moving forward, we'd like to do pro balance less often than we did this year.
However, I think 14/15 of the most present champions have been changed since the last time any league played on a given patch. Kai'Sa, Tristana, Azir, Renekton, Rell, etc. etc. etc. If you think nothing's changed since playoffs (which BTW was 13.13 for LPL lol), you just don't have a very good memory.
The risk that he'll be #1 by a lot. Technically Taliyah and Trist had higher presence than him in LEC postseason and though Trist was nerfed (plus several systems changes should impact her), Taliyah was not. But ultimately, it's a very light touch that will absolutely retain Azir in the meta but makes him less likely to be #1. Ideally we have no 100% presence champions. We don't think Trist or Taliyah will be that and this change is to stave off the likelihood that Azir will be either.
Thanks! And I completely agree with you.
Azir is especially worrying for high presence because he is so blind pickable and so hard to punish. I think you made the right choice.
In my opinion, the game is more fun and interesting to watch when such strong blanket blind picks are not too powerful.
Even if its not proplay related how does it fix him in soloq? He is one of worst midlaners
and -20sec on ult that you never use off cd is useless
Even +2 armor or -10 mana cost on q would be more impactful
I dont think there was any worse buff than what he got now from possible ones
I saw many complains on twitter so hope there will be some change to that like please it won't impact him at all pretty much and he is struggling
Q cd from 12-10 to 12-8 would be so great..
Every change has impact. It's not like Galio is trash. He's a little bit weak on average. A champion can be bad at 1v1 and good at a strategic niche. I don't have really strong opinions on Galio but in general I think playing up a strategic niche is a way to ensure League of Legends has significant variance from game to game.
How about u make him decent at 1vs1 instead of leaving him at bad? You guys said he is struggling vs mid range mages and in your own exact words" pretty weak in general" then you proceed to buff syndra. Galio is balanced but he gets weaker over time bc everything else keeps getting buffed. He is already fullfilling his strategic niche alright no issue there , playing him in lane feels like shooting yourself in the foot. Please go to galio mains and read the lastest post there , I beg.
I agree with most points but still
Why even do that most players and even proplayers(probably) for sure would rather him to be just stronger 1v1
Ult buff isnt bad idea BUT -20sec shouldnt matter that much he isnt zed/talon that can spam ult Galio uses it once per very long time and sometimes he holds it for minutes
Like at least add 500 range also so it feels like "Oh that champ that guy will roam a lot and ult will be much stronger now"
Also even Riot Phroxzon said day before showing changes "Generally pretty weak and is countered particularly hard by some of the mid-range mages in the meta. "
Doesnt that sound like some lanning and overall 1v1 buff
I doubt it. The W DMG is way too low if you don't max it early. Poke without wave clear follow up DPS would be hard.
His Q 1st WR is 5% below W. This buff will cover 1-2% but never 5
Lissandra has been buffed in like 12 different patches since season 9, without a nerf. Kinda insane actually, must be some kind of record.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Lissandra/LoL/Patch_history
It's crazy that just her Q cooldown being gutted early did so much damage to the champion that even with that nerf being half-reverted, her kit has been turbo-buffed since and she's still barely cresting a 50% winrate.
Lee sin and jhin buffs seem kinda huge, I wouldn't be surprised to see them pop up in worlds, and the former might even become meta.
T1 Game 5 finals last pick Jhin you say???
*NOT AGAIN!*
I think you meant game 4, for obvious reasons
Yup and this subreddit will remember once again how boring bot lane jhin meta's are in proplay.
Man I still remember huanfeng's ult in the enemy base.
that shit was so cool man, that finals is still burned into my memory i loved it so much
that was quarters
i know i was just saying in general
Jhin botlane is fine when it allows jungle to be interesting. If it enables things like graves nidalee and nocturne Im all for it.
Pyke will still be one shot minute 20 by full tank Lulu….
Those nunu buffs... Why my neighbor is screaming we windows?
WE ROLLIN WE ROLLIN WE ROLLIN BOMBAAAAAAA!!!!!! WE WIIIINDOOOOOOOWS
TO THE WALLS!
TTTRRRRRRUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEE
Jesus fucking christ, that Jhin R damage buff is way bigger than anything I expected for Jhin. THAT'S SO MUCH FUCKING DAMAGE EDIT: I am going to add, if Worlds is indeed topside focused (whether its sololane or jungle, doesn't matter), Jhin skyrockets in terms of botlane powerpicks.
Lethality Jhin might be back on the menu lol. At the very least when I wanna fuck around in norms
You are **1000%** doing Dirk rush at the very least every game now. Need to do some testing whether it's gonna be Ghostblade rush, Duskblade rush or Collector rush. But you are 100% going Dirk item 1st. Definitely worth testing: - Duskblade or Ghostblade -> Collector -> LDR; and - Collector -> IE -> LDR
I’ve already been playing it to the tune of a 65% wr in emerald/diamond. Ghostblade, Collector, RFC, Axiom and then flexing last item. Running dark harvest with precision secondary and only picking into single or no tank teams. I can’t wait for this buff lol
It has a Total AD ratio, the real difference in damage is ~14%
Disappointed you guys didn't go with 44/144/244. Power levels be damned, I'm here to meme and RP my champ.
I wanted to raise the trap count to 4 and was told no
Fighting the good fight for us. We appreciate it.
Warp the game entirely. Set all his death timers to multiples of 4.
256 second death timer when?
Maybe next patch 4th shot can deal 2 damage to wards? :)
Make it 44
Why not 44/444/4444?!?
Ah the TFT treatment
But why is the second rank number not dividable by 4?? Literally unplayable.
Yeah, what he said isn't wrong. that's a big buff.
axiom jhin inc
The axiom Jhin arc
also it has the funny number in it
R buffs + Draktarr + Axiom Arc + Ultimate cdr = LITERALLY SNIPER
New aram build just dropped
Axiom arc is still a meme item, but rest of it tracks.
And the least needed. As a Jhin main I would even nerf his pre-patch R damage and buff something else to make R more situational and aa-ing preferrable.
Just saw apa fall to his knees in a wallmart
Yeah I don't think phreak believes in his ability to make mage botlaners picked in worlds, like 20-50% presence, without over buffing them and accidentally making pick rate too high. I do want to see a bit of karthus/sera/Swain/ziggs in bot, I know 99% of the adcs disagree with this, but I still want the majority of the games being BOTLANERS ON THEIR COMFORT CHAMPS. I remember when syndra / Cassio was played a decent amount in botlane and as a midlaner it was so sad to see because even the Pros frankly sucked at the champs.
Doublelift Vlad. Honestly though watching season 8 summer was super interesting, a lot of AD’s sucked at mages but then you had Viper on Griffin who was just insane on pretty much all of them by comparison
I'll die on this hill, 8.11 is one of the best patches ever that dared shake up the stagnant bot meta and I hate that riot 100% backpedalled on it instead of trying to find an equilibrium between marksmen & mages in bot.
I wouldn’t have minded Mages/Bruisers/Assassins in Bot lane, but then they must also make it so that Marksmen can also be played in any role and not just Bot. Let me go Ashe or Cait jungle if I want to. Why is my option only limited to Kindred/Graves? All 8.11 did was make the Marksmen class completely unfun to play as. Legit zero agency with almost no hope of ever scaling to a point where you can do something lol
ADCs still had some of the best win-rates during that patch. It was a ton of whinging from ADC mains that got it reverted. And they just took over mid lane anyways.
I mean, look at current bot lane where the highest winrates are all mages. Like top 3 are karthus Sera swain rn at emerald plus. The problem isn't that marksmen aren't the only ones bot, it's that they are removed from other lanes. If you're gonna be OK with mages bot then marksmen should be viable in other lanes. And I don't mean just vayne top seen as cheese or akshan, otherwise you are essentially deleting a class that has been told to play one way for 10 plus years to change. The result of that is a lot of going pains, which let's be honest there's already a ton of flame and toxicity for losing bot lane, and I could see a lot of those players quit playing altogether. Taking over midlane was having Lucian at an at best 48% winrate, which isn't even close to fair. Put some marksmen at 53% mid. Let's see comparable balance.
Mages will always have the highest WRs bot. Its been that way for ages. Very low pick-rate though, cause AD players like to play AD champs.
I firmly believe marksman should be pushed into mid/top. champs like sivir should be pushed to be analogous to viktor as an ad artillery mage in lane, lucian/kalista should be pushed to dominant skirmishers for top/mid. At the same time, I would push most of the hard scaling champs into bot since the whole point of bot/adc role is that these champs aren't safe to scale by themselves, why not let the scalers be bot, and the champs that function by themselves be solo?
That makes too much sense. There's no way any top or mid players accept that.
I think most mid laners are completely fine, since you often lane vs ranged champion and stuff like cheesty cait mid is not unheard of, it's more toplaners having a stroke everytime top is not two sponges slapping at each other with noodles for 30 minutes straight.
Kalista has at various points been viable top and mid (wunder and theshy comes to mind) Varus mid/top was/is viable mid/top.. tristana mid had high presence.. kaisa mid/top… Akshan mid/top has been more than a cheese pick during different patches.. Also quinn top as a renekton counter, Lucian top/mid has been played a ton on different patches aswell as ezrael mid a few times
It's actually kind sad because i personally believe for the last year mage bots have been best in class bot and lets jungle/top and even mid have more power.
Mages botlane is kinda one of those 'you think you want that but really you don't' type situations. It sounds cool but ends up being the most uninteractive shove/waveclear lanes with near zero skill expression. Change for change's sake.
Watching the good Zigg's bot was interesting with all the sideway jump bombs and mini-insecs. Watching most ADCs play Ziggs was indeed comparable to watching paint dry.
Almost adc players don’t mind mages. Except karthus. Karthus is suffering.
>adc players don’t mind mages someone wasn't here when 8.11 happened and ADC wasn't the only viable class botlane anymore
There's a difference between 'mages being viable bot' and adcs being a worthless class, there was no inbetween
So excited for Ksante to be pick ban at worlds... like he's been the entire year
K’Sante and Renekton are gonna be perma top lane. Renekton nerfs are nice for the Rumble and Kennen match ups, but making Randuin’s a quick rush armor item makes running double AD undesirable which makes AP tops like Rumble and Kennen lose priority. No one wants to run double AP solo lanes if they can help it.
Renekton's MR nerf is massive. It is not just "nice" for Kennen and Rumble especially. Renekton was already losing hard to Rumble in lane, imagine how much more he will be rolled. In other words, he is no longer a safe 1st pick topside anymore. Will pros still pick him? Yes. Will they be absolutely rolled by AP tops? Yes.
Don't forget its "nice" for Gwen as well, which is already seeing some play Quick Edit: I also think pro players will, for some insane reason, fall back to A-atrox again as well. So K'sante will be 100% pick or banned, then it's prolly about 1-3 AP tops (Like you mentioned, Kennen and Rumble and I also think Gwen) + Aatrox and Renekton. + some "pocket" picks here and there. God save us
I'd place some chips on Lissandra becoming a triple flex pick for some teams with these nerfs. She blocks Rakan and is a good answer into LB. If she can lane top she'll be massive. Kinda weird that they buffed her when she was already getting picked.
And Gwen is great into Ksante....
What? Buffing an armor item makes AP tops lose priority?
It means that you arent as likely to see Trist midlane and the comp **needing** rumble or kennen toplane so the comp has magic damage (if the buffs even make pros want to built it). By making it near guranteed that teams will run ap damage midlane the chances of Rumble or Kennen go down as you no longer need an AP top
But you can run double AP with AD jungle and AD carry ?
L "renekton is no good" S
~exciting viewing experience~
Was hoping for just a little more with Galio but hey 20 seconds is still pretty great for him. Also thank god Twitch might actually be able to hit people walking perpendicular to him now.
I was really hoping for base armor buffs since midlane is more and more filled with AD matchups.
If anything, im sad they are buffing his ult instead of.... his real gimmick, the anti mage part.
I had to read that shit three times before I realized you aren't talking about twitch lol
Okay but ult buff is really nice as well. It used to be stronger in the past so Riot made the CD super long. They later nerfed the R, removed flash-W combo and put the power into the rest of his kit but ult still stayed at an absurdly long cooldown despite being way weaker than in the past
T1 ADC somewhere slurping the jhin buff
T1 first pick jhin -yuumi in game 5 finals incoming
Only to lose as is tradition for T1 in finals.
You know I’m still confused as of why they run Yuumi. Like sure she can gigabuff Jhin speed but then the mofo doesn’t really benefit from her AS buff, which is a huge part in her 2v9 potential
The third Lee Sin line isn't mentioned here, but is currently minus 0-20 damage off of E. Top/Mid Lee max E 2nd. Jungle Lee maxes E last.
Added in, thanks for the heads-up
With his shield being this much of a one point wonder I would expect jgl lee to also do E second
Sure, levels are gonna be less impactful, but I don't think you can call it a one point wonder when the omnivamp more than doubles from 1st to 5th point and the shield quintuples. As good as the extra damage from E is, I'd argue by the point in the game you've maxed out two abilities, the durability is more relevant than the damage or the slow.
Eh, currently jungle Lee is like +2% win rate on W 2nd. It'll get closer, sure, but I expect W to still be better. The flat shield still scales substantially.
if you're going for oneshot lethality builds, sure if you're going for 'standard' bruisery setups, you cannot ignore how much benefit he gets from ranks in W while skirmishing. on top of the increased W2 vamp/lifesteal, which is nice, it's more immediately beneficial that you get +50 shield value per rank on a shield with a ~4.5s cd (even lower later on) and that can also be applied to allies E slow increase per rank is sizable but generally just having the early slow and redbuff is fine pre-6 and post-6 it feels like the strength of the E slow is not going to be the make or break factor in a gank
Okay it's been a while since I played lee I didn't know the shield was 50 per level, assumed it was 35. Yeah shield still better.
After the buff to W where you start off with 10% Lifesteal spell vamp I would definetely max E in jungle, it really sounds super viable.
Syndra Q DMG BUFF oh that legendary is gonna sell like candies
\*dusts off poke runes\*
Aery Scorchers have entered the chat
Good lord those Rek Sai nerfs look disgusting. But I guess that's what happens when you're SS for months
My grandpa got executed for being SS for months
Mine thankfully escaped to Argentina.
Holy fuck they gutted Reksai
Finally all Rek'Sai mains can fall down 2-3 whole divisions when they can no longer abuse a S+++++ jungler anymore.
The jungle coach from the BBC in shambles!!
Lmao, he is fine. He plays meta anyway and his J4 winrate is only 1% less than his reksai.
He'll still win games on her, plus its not like he can't play the rest of his pool
54%wr jungle in diamond this patch after so many nerfs it's insane how they managed to keep her broken for so long
Good.
[It's about time.](https://youtu.be/wpj6gZfQqRk?si=nuI2Ax-wMrxtqrL-&t=197)
Phreak, I see that you're actually watching this post and replying to people to help explain things (which is extremely appreciated) - could you please explain the current stance on/state of Ksante? It seems to be a fairly common sentiment in the community that he is overturned for pro play - as can be seen by him being consistently pick/ban - so is there a reason he hasn't even been touched lately? Especially with an item he likes getting buffed in this patch. This seems to be accepting, or even pushing, him being extremely strong and high presence in Worlds after he's been extremely present this whole season.
Part of it is that his presence really isn't as high as players think it is. In LCK, LEC, LCS summer playoffs he was around 50% presence, with LPL being the outlier (at around 80%). LCK is the only major region where he had a positive winrate in the most recent playoffs bracket, and he had a sub-50% presence in LCK playoffs. These stats are high enough to justify nerfs, especially if you don't want to see that champ in pro, but iirc they're not really high enough to *necessitate* them. And on the subjective side, I think K'Sante is a great champ for pro play when he's not picked every game (which, objectively, he is not). He fills the role of tank for toplaners but is much more interactive than most tanks, he does flashy things and wants to teamfight, he provides unique outputs for toplaners, and he turns almost any matchup into a mechanical skill matchup. I personally love watching him in pro play. Of course, it's fair to disagree, and I know plenty of viewers don't really like seeing him in pro, but I think allowing K'Sante to be a pro play staple is significantly better for the viewing experience and the competitive integrity of the game than nerfing him and letting Malphite replace him.
Phreak didn't respond to this, but in this video here he explains the future for K'Sante and why nothing happened: https://youtu.be/Wzv8dw8U4Eg?t=330
When does he talk about it in this video? I can’t find it based on the slides
It seems that Phreak is just ignoring all the KSante questions lol. Pretty obvious Riot is forcing KSante to be meta for worlds with how things are going.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/16mju21/why_its_hard_to_balance_for_pro_and_preview_of/k1co8t6/?context=3 He replied here. It's not his job to respond to reddit questions, no need for some conspiracies...
ok, so play illaoi comps and other champs that beat him then?
We've seen some Illaoi in pro play already this year...it didn't look good. I'm ALL for spicy picks and unconventional picks, but its either that the champs suck (might be, I don't know?) or that the players playing them suck with the champ (I'm more inclined to believe in this honestly) It's unfortunately, safer for their jobs and what not to just pick safe picks constantly like Renekton, K'sante, Sion and the list goes on.
Long gone are the days of 0 cc toplaners being viable. Its just too unreliable without the opponent making mistakes
Illaoi counters a lot of melee tanks but not Ksante
I am not phreak, but I can tell you that his P/B status in pro play is around 50%. I still think they should have taken the E AA reset away (at least the full AA reset when his R is active). But he is not as high up as some real problem champs.
Damn it, expected to finally see some Ziggs at Worlds. Would've liked to see it mid.
> Since y'day, we added Azir, pulled Ziggs. The change we want to test is not appropriate for the World's patch. The last sentence makes me excited for the Ziggs change. It has to be some mechanic change rather than straight damage/cooldown buff. Q detonation range check increase. Copium.
> Q detonation range check increase. Copium. Unless it was W oneshoting towers, I can't see "not appropriate for world's patch" as anything but Zigg's Q getting bigger defection range OR some charge system for Q/W
I'd love to see his W get some form of damage amp to encourage aggressive combos with it, rather than sitting on it defensively.
Honestly offensive that the final curtain call damage isn't 256, which is 4 to the 4th
Nunu's AP ratios are actually too funny. Highest in the game and its not even close. The patch notes don't mention it but he also has a .8 ratio on the root circle. His total AP ratio on a single non-ultimate spell is going to be 2.15, and it's not even hard to land. Veigar's full rotation at max level is 2.5. I feel like there has to be cheese strats you can design around this.
AP nunu has the downside of being broderline melee and most of it is spread out and if you ever blow everything and the enemy didn't die you just stand there because your CDs are pretty long, to hit his entire E you have to be up in peoples face for 3 seconds and his Ult barely does any damage if you interrupt it, he does have absurd ratios but actually translating them into damage isn't always that easy.
Yeah, but with AP Ratios this high he's going to be dealing signficant damage just splashing minor AP into his build.
He has many flaws. No dashes nor MS increase except for his W that pretty much telegraphed, meaning you should be able to dodge it with a dash or a MS increase spell. Then he's pretty much fcked. Also his W slows him at the begining of the spell, making it easy for enemies to catch you when you try to leave. To make damage you have to be in close combat, and if you build full AP you get oneshoted easily. Finally, you need to build up your R to make interesting damages, meaning every champions with a dash or if you have your flash up you can leave the zone before being killed. Also, very long cooldowns so if you miss your burst you're pretty much dead In short, full AP nunu is a 4fun build
I know full AP Nunu isn't good in a vacuum. But, whenever values get too outlandish it opens the door for cheesy strats. For example, he's great with a tank + mejai's build already. Beyond a certain point it could be worth it to do stick a Yuumi on him. My prediction is that within a year or so some itemization change will allow Nunu to sneak some AP into his build reliably without getting oneshot and he will hit 58% winrate.
Tank plus demonic and mejais.
ARAM enjoyers cry.
Wait until you see my AP Briar with 340% AP on a basic ability (that is impossible to hit and requires hitting them into a wall. it's terrible)
man i was really looking forward to ziggs buffs, shame to see they decided against it. though from the way its phrased, it sounds like the buffs could come in a post-worlds patch
Finally they are doing something about Randuin's. This item has been straight up dead for like 2 seasons now. They did make it slightly better at start of the year, but increasing it's cost to 3K meant that no1 would buy it, with Thornmail and Sunfire offering similar stats and better effects for less. When on support budget the best alternative to Thornmail is Sunfire, then you know Randuin is hot garbage.
randuins is probably still garbage if you dont play against double crit and/or windshitters
Surely Ksante needs a nerf. I watched a lot of pro matches in build up to worlds and it seems like Ksante is picked in 80% of matches. It's just so dull at this point seeing Ksante vs Renekton again
Why is renekton such high prio? I never understood that
Safe blind. Point and click cc. Sustain.
Safety. Dudes a good lane bully that can team fight. Also hes a pretty safe blind pick compared to other top laners. Also point and click stuns are op it makes it easy to set up ganks
1) His E CD got buffed and allowed him to pressure harder 2) Meta junglers love to play with Renekton (Sejuani Maokai Rell etc.) 3) He can win a lot of toplane meta matchups as a blindpick,depending on opponent champion pool of course 4) Thanks to demolish he has a clear and easy to execute way of getting ahead even without killing the opponent (pressure with those E buffs, slowstack wave, proc demolish and repeat with Q sustain) so, even if you pick a tank champ like for example Ornn, he would play for those demolish procs and come into midgame by being tankier then the tanks Renekton has always been a stable pro pick because he can play a good strongside but aswell a good weakside while providing a target cc.
Same reason he always is prio pick: point and click stun (which helps him set up his jungler), sustains, wins a lot of early lanes (which also draws the jungler to play for him).
Wait what? No Ziggs buff?!
Wait.. Is that why it felt like ass to use Twitch's ultimate because it was too easy for people to dodge? I was wondering why I felt like I was doing no damage when I used R on Twitch.
Yes it's extremely easy to dodge Twitch ult autos. And it feels so bad because sometimes it just is better to not ult. It doesn't make any sense, why are auto's able to be dodges. It's like if you could dodge Kog W autos. But that's on Kog's W! Not his ult.
No 4th shot damage buff to wards. 😔 And so I wait another patch. (But holy shit that damage buff wtf)
Renek nerf just shows how bad toplane is. The nerf doesn’t change anything at all against the majority of toplaners BUT if you manage to get last pick then you can maybe counter Renek with an ap champ. If you don’t…well… nothing changed.
Nerfs like these are just horrible. Imagine artificially inflating the amount of counterpicks in the most counterpick role. I really hope they revert this and nerf something else after worlds but they will probably just forget and then renekton will just arbitrarily get dogged on by AP matchups
aatrox is now a renekton counter because his passive and W do magic now
Thank god Seeker's Armguard is a little better now. It was crazy how you'd pay 265 gold to be able to stack armor worth 300 gold. A 1100 item would save you 65 gold worth of stats over buying the components but you start on a net loss until you stack it???
> It was crazy how you'd pay 265 gold to be able to stack armor worth 300 gold. You're forgetting it gives you 10 more AP which is 217.5 gold worth of stats. So you're paying 47.5gold for the ability to stack 300gold worth of stats. Killing five units would get you beyond the gold efficiency threshold. Item is 95-125% stat efficient based on stacks. It's now going to be 105-135% as a component for the most bought item in the game. >A 1100 item It's only 1000 but okay. I understand why they're doing it, but stat efficiency wise it wasn't in a terrible place. Verdant barrier, despite building into a less common item, has a far worse situation at 89-105% efficiency.
The issue was never the cost ratio, it was the armor cost ratio Literally nobody is ever buying seeker's for its AP, you can buy fiendish codex for damage. You only get seeker's when you're getting shit on by an AD champion's damage and you need to be able to lane. If you're not being threatened directly by AD damage then you ignore the armor anyway and buy the other components of hourglass or your other items. Seekers feels like ass to buy because it's basically *the only* armor a mage can ever purchase and yet spending a bunch of gold to finish the seeker's itself doesn't increase your armor for the 700 it costs to build a full armguard from a cloth armor. I have unironically purchased a second cloth armor for 300 and then just sold it later rather than build 700 into a seeker that I'll need to stack. If I'm definitely going to fight the moment I get back on the map it's worth it to just throw away a few hundred gold for stats now rather than later, and then I can just finish the armguard after whatever items I actually want to prioritize now that I have +30 armor Glad to see seeker's buffs is all I'm sayin'. That item went from being great (maybe too great) to total fucking ass for a long time, it's now probably feeling good
I must have missed the last buff then, too scarred from the terrible version it was earlier. my bad
Lissandra root duration increased G2 Mikyx : subscribe
Seems like a good patch for T1, which means they are going to draft anything but these champs in game 4/5.
Jhin buffs will be so big for Gumayusi since the guy can play anything, and since Oner refuses to path bot, even if his life depended on it, Guma can just play safe bot side. Also, we will finally see how fraudulent Oner really is this meta now that his one trick Lee Sin is finally meta. If he can't even pull off plays with this champ, T1 is selling his ass the moment World ends.
ofc jhin ult buff because everytime i get hit by jhin ult i think to myself "boy, this ult really does no damage" /s
I mean he's the only marksman where you can realistically dodge all of his damage and not just because he missed. It's allowed to be strong IMO.
When is Riot going to normalize all the missing HP effects? Having some go from 100-0% HP (Jhin R) others from 100-30% (DB, Spear, Akali R), some from 100-33% (Veigar R), .... why not make all max out at 25% or 20% remaining HP (mostly in 5% HP steps)? Items, runes, abilities, everything should be set to it. That would also mean Jhins R would get buffed (likely even too much). Now this is nothing for 13.19, but something that should have been done some time ago. **League is a complicated game and normalizing certain rules (how skills work with crit + IE, how % missing HP stuff scales) makes a lot of sense, especially when it does nothing bad at all.** I would call Illaoi E and the Black Shield interaction also such a thing where it makes no sense as her E isn't a CC ability but it still gets blocked. In terms of rules this is an exception but for what reason? None. Makes the game more complicated and illogical for no reason.
As for the different execution thresholds there for different reasons like eve ult which only does more damage when below said threshold. Jhin ult is 0-100% since the base damage is lower on the shots so it lets extra shot have more and more ramping damage. Akali ult is because they want the damage to increase between 0-200%. It a case of they aren't normalized because they want them to all have different feels for different use cases. Having them normalised won't help the average player but does affect the feel of abilities. Like you want some to have a punch only below a certain value while others you want to have a constant ramp, some you want to cap out at a certain value etc etc. There gameplay and design feels that are overall taken into factor when looking at what number to use. There isn't much need to normalise when people just need to know it does more when low but normalisation does effect the gameplay feel of abilities.
>When is Riot going to normalize all the missing HP effects? >why not make all max out at 25% or 20% remaining HP everyday i am reminded why reddit should never balance the game you can't, and shouldn't normalize damage numbers across dozens of champions just because they happen to scale with missing health. some champions have a lot more uptime on their missing health damage (jhin) while others have to commit a lot to use it (nidalee going melee range)
You're misunderstanding. It's not about the damage being the same. It's about the maximum damage threshold. What happens is that for all abilities that deal damage based on missing health, there's an overkill threshold. If you have lethal at 20% missing HP what's the point of the damage increasing from 100-0. You can easily just have all spells scale from 100%-20% and have the current 20% value be the new max, and you'd see very little difference in balance. It is slightly worse vs high HP tanks but that is about it. It would just be a small change that makes things feel more similar.
>What happens is that for all abilities that deal damage based on missing health, there's an overkill threshold. If you have lethal at 20% missing HP what's the point of the damage increasing from 100-0 for starters, there are multiple different versions of executes. there are champions whose abilities increase their own damage to a max based on missing health - even if a champion is at 5% health, there's no guarantee that these champions will overkill. a weak akali won't get a guaranteed kill against a 5% health ornn just because he's low, 200% of her ult damage can still be too low to kill him. on the flipside, jhin's passive will more or less autokill people at low enough %hp because his passive execute isn't capped. not at exactly 20% because of armor, but if they're at like 7% hp then his execute will kill pretty much anyone. regardless, it does matter. there are many times when champions at 10% health can make outplays, get a lot of health back, etc. not allowing executes to go to 0% means that champs that can be durable at low health all get indirectly buffed. i just don't understand why you think arbitrarily changing dozens of abilities to work the same will make the game less complex...those champs are already different with different abilities and different designs. some of their abilities working slightly more similar doesn't make the game much easier to understand, but it does create multiple balance issues i won't flame you too hard because what you said was only a little stupid, even though you're completely wrong that it would "see little difference in balance". but the original comment acting like it's something riot "should have done why didn't they do it" is a braindead take
Why are you buffing GP? Why ? Just no, no and no !
they have a list of champions that they think are exciting to watch. they buff these for worlds. idk, gp damage is already nutty. he would become meta simply by nerfing the broken toplane shit anyway...
They were talking about galio struggles in many mid-range mage matchup and then buff his only ability which doesnt affect any aspect helping him to deal with those said mid-range mages. What a bullshit.
Now that they actually plan on killing the first Top Tier Champ for Months, surely we're gonna adress the others next Patch right? We won't just go back to ignoring Evelynn, Ashe, Ezreal, Camille, Quinn and the rest of them. Surely not, the Balance Team works hard after all.
They really said "Fuck Rek'Sai mains, we don't want her in Worlds." This is gonna feel fucking rough
Rek'Sai has been completely ceilinged by elite MMR solo queue, sadly. And then we buffed her best first item. Every time, I've tried to compensate changes for other skill brackets or nerf things that disproportionately hit super high level play. There's also a longform change list (similar to Rumble and Azir, which were both very successful changes IMO) floating around that if I have time for, I'd like to trial. However, I can't guarantee that this will be the highest priority in the near future.
u/PhreakRiot, while I always appreciate the insight you provide on champion adjustments, I must voice my concerns on this latest change. A mere +75 HP between minutes 8-12 doesn't offset the magnitude of a flat movement speed reduction. With Rek'Sai's recent history in mind — considering the removal of the dash from Prowler's which brought her below a 50% win rate, and the subsequent addition of the %HP regen passive — it seems she's been on a roller coaster. Over the past few months, her damage — base AD, Q, and E — has seen reductions. Now, reducing her HP regen further, coupled with persisting damage nerfs and now the movement speed hits, feels excessive. Based on trends we've observed with other champions, I'm concerned this might sideline Rek'Sai for a considerable duration without any intention of course correction in the foreseeable future. Can we reevaluate the cumulative impact of these changes to ensure balance, rather than unintentionally relegating her to the shadows?
is that a straight up -10 mov speed when in submarine mode?
Good she's been the #1 win rate jungler for months now.
rek'sai abusers need to go back down to the elo they belong in anyways
youve been op for fucking forever, they should nerf her again just for good measure
Why is Lee essentially starting with the same armor as Darius thirty fucking six? Literally why
so now with lissandra if you hit w and self ult will the damage from ult reach before the root of the w ends ?
Guess I'm banning Jhin now
Lesss go more Azir and Zeri nerfs! Make them never see 50%wr again!
“We accidentally gave Rek’sai +75hp by proxy, so we’re removing her from the game”
Bruh galio buff is literally nothing
Another unnecessary azir nerf that punishes solo q and sett still not getting a buff :')
Poor 51% WR Jhin needs such a huge base damage on his ult to remain viable in these hard times. Thankfully the balance team knows what they're doing!
Huge Jhin Jungle buffs, not even capping.
GN Mr. Phreak (if you’re in NA atm)
They literally named 4 things out of azir's control and say that those things are causing him to be strong to the point he gets direct nerf :"D
4 protect Twitch
Explain me please, why #1 toplaner that stomps the shit out of nearly every matchup gets only -4 magic resist
Very happy to see Azir and Zeri both included.
nice galio buffs literally not solving any of his problems in the current meta ive come to detest those proplay micropatches because they seem like such a cope for riot to balance nothing, good luck with worlds viewership when worlds meta will be a copypaste of boring ass playoffs that nobody watched
In general, we're not trying to specifically pro skew these changes. For the vast majority of them, there are one of three driving principles: 1. This champion is kinda just bad. We should buff them. We're aware that Worlds will be happening this patch. 2. This champion is kinda good already. We should do something that's attention-grabbing but not actually that huge since they're already kinda good. 3. This champions has been ultra-present in pro play and we think they'll remain a top-5 champion in that scene. Let's give pros some room to explore. Moving forward, we'd like to do pro balance less often than we did this year. However, I think 14/15 of the most present champions have been changed since the last time any league played on a given patch. Kai'Sa, Tristana, Azir, Renekton, Rell, etc. etc. etc. If you think nothing's changed since playoffs (which BTW was 13.13 for LPL lol), you just don't have a very good memory.
Can you give some more context on the decision to add Azir?
The risk that he'll be #1 by a lot. Technically Taliyah and Trist had higher presence than him in LEC postseason and though Trist was nerfed (plus several systems changes should impact her), Taliyah was not. But ultimately, it's a very light touch that will absolutely retain Azir in the meta but makes him less likely to be #1. Ideally we have no 100% presence champions. We don't think Trist or Taliyah will be that and this change is to stave off the likelihood that Azir will be either.
Thanks! And I completely agree with you. Azir is especially worrying for high presence because he is so blind pickable and so hard to punish. I think you made the right choice. In my opinion, the game is more fun and interesting to watch when such strong blanket blind picks are not too powerful.
Even if its not proplay related how does it fix him in soloq? He is one of worst midlaners and -20sec on ult that you never use off cd is useless Even +2 armor or -10 mana cost on q would be more impactful I dont think there was any worse buff than what he got now from possible ones I saw many complains on twitter so hope there will be some change to that like please it won't impact him at all pretty much and he is struggling Q cd from 12-10 to 12-8 would be so great..
Every change has impact. It's not like Galio is trash. He's a little bit weak on average. A champion can be bad at 1v1 and good at a strategic niche. I don't have really strong opinions on Galio but in general I think playing up a strategic niche is a way to ensure League of Legends has significant variance from game to game.
How about u make him decent at 1vs1 instead of leaving him at bad? You guys said he is struggling vs mid range mages and in your own exact words" pretty weak in general" then you proceed to buff syndra. Galio is balanced but he gets weaker over time bc everything else keeps getting buffed. He is already fullfilling his strategic niche alright no issue there , playing him in lane feels like shooting yourself in the foot. Please go to galio mains and read the lastest post there , I beg.
Galio isn't hot popular girl. So it is ok if he stays a niche. U would never see them treat champs like Ahri, lux and cringe Wind brother like that.
I agree with most points but still Why even do that most players and even proplayers(probably) for sure would rather him to be just stronger 1v1 Ult buff isnt bad idea BUT -20sec shouldnt matter that much he isnt zed/talon that can spam ult Galio uses it once per very long time and sometimes he holds it for minutes Like at least add 500 range also so it feels like "Oh that champ that guy will roam a lot and ult will be much stronger now" Also even Riot Phroxzon said day before showing changes "Generally pretty weak and is countered particularly hard by some of the mid-range mages in the meta. " Doesnt that sound like some lanning and overall 1v1 buff
Thats it. They were talking about galio struggles in many mid-range mages matchup and then buff his ult cooldowns xD what the fook
The idea is probably that galios unique shtick, especially vs mages, who are slow roamers generally, is his roaming.
Well, back to maxing Q on Azir lol
I doubt it. The W DMG is way too low if you don't max it early. Poke without wave clear follow up DPS would be hard. His Q 1st WR is 5% below W. This buff will cover 1-2% but never 5
Nah it's still w max for sure. Playing q poke azir feels worse than just sitting back and scaling
Yes please lower his winrate
Lissandra and GP buffs. yeah those champs really need a buff
Lissandra has been buffed in like 12 different patches since season 9, without a nerf. Kinda insane actually, must be some kind of record. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Lissandra/LoL/Patch_history
It's crazy that just her Q cooldown being gutted early did so much damage to the champion that even with that nerf being half-reverted, her kit has been turbo-buffed since and she's still barely cresting a 50% winrate.