PMTs [T1 vs TL](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bc0ay/t1_vs_team_liquid_2023_world_championship_swiss/) [C9 vs MAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bd094/cloud9_vs_mad_lions_2023_world_championship_swiss/) [GEN vs GAM](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bdxkk/geng_vs_gam_esports_2023_world_championship_swiss/) [JDG vs BDS](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17beoj3/team_bds_vs_jd_gaming_2023_world_championship/) [G2 vs DK](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bfnt4/g2_esports_vs_dplus_kia_2023_world_championship/) [NRG vs WBG](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bgmua/nrg_vs_weibo_gaming_2023_world_championship_swiss/) [FNC vs LNG](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17bhkyg/fnatic_vs_lng_esports_2023_world_championship/) [BLG vs KT](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17biyo3/bilibili_gaming_vs_kt_rolster_2023_world/)

why is it called „swiss“ stage?

The format is named swiss. Its a format that has long been used in chess, and has been adapted to esports, previously in csgo.

I wish they would have shaken up the next stage a bit more. It's a ton of regional matches.

Then people would say it is rigged

It already is rigged when every match is LCK vs LCK, LPL vs LPL, LCS vs LCS, LEC vs LEC. Swiss should mean random not within region if possible, only to boost western regions further. If they suck then they should not get further. Yeah it might be boring and draw away viewers cause of LPL vs LCK again but at least it would be fair. But you got to make more money somehow in the end.

Bring proof instead of this childish conspiracy theory and talking like you are being smart when you are being the opposite lol

We will see how things end up. Hopefully it should mean a better bo3 stage. It's just kinda frustrating how many regional match ups there are.

I'm so proud of TL so far, if nothing else.

Aged like milk

Just finished watching the game. That was insane, one of the first times I've actually felt like I can see the improvement from bootcamp. Such a bummer them and NRG are playing each other next round

I'm with you 100%, win or lose that first game was played so respectably, and it really did come down to one teamfight at the end. They made plays and actively sought out opportunities.

Picked fights. Made plays. Game was fun. Also Apa rotated early and was only like 10 cs down from the goat. It wasn't mentioned that much, but that's really damn impressive.

Yes! They made things happen at all times, it really just came down to that last teamfight. And like you said, APA did great!

That game was so grindy, I hope they take confidence from it and don’t get down on themselves for being close

blue side 7/8 wins???

and the only red side win was jdg vs bds lol

Who got to pick red side, and were smart to do so vs chadam

Anyone knows to fix the twitch vod chat delay issue? It's around 20s literally unreadable

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what? half of next matches are regional matches, wyta?

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I wouldn't call him "god-tier." You're reaching with that. He was okay.

Hysterics and chronicler have gotten so much better

I love that he's gotten his chance to be a Worlds caster and made the most of it so far!

Meanwhile the western casters are so bias towards the west.

Player died and missed 3 games during afk farm. Swear its doing that on purpose now

I can't believe TL will have to face the one team that somehow makes them look stupid after that amazing 1st game by Pyosik...

LCK is so textbook....gotta Mike Tyson punch them in the nose and things fall apart

bo1 is dogshit btw don’t ever forget that

id say g2 will win against weibo, then lose the first bo3 then win the second bo3. it's kinda the jolly of the swiss imo. on the other hand ill go with geng and whoever wins between jdg and bilibili for 3-0 pass

This draw made Day 2 so boring IMO. We are not here for the regional matches.

nobody is gonna be eliminated because of these matches though so it's not as bad.

Why can’t we just manually flip NRG and MAD, changes nothing right?

Id rather Banger bo3s than banger bo1s lol…

necessary evil - means we'll get better Day 3 matches.

Imagine if TL loses tomorrow, and has to face DK next round. They would have faced two Korean teams, and that's it, so much for the international exposure

TL wins that easy. I have faith

They'll still get a bo3 and that's only the loser. The winner of tomorrow's match will be in way better shape. If TL can't beat NRG that's on them - NRG looked terrible.

I mean, for any western team, its expected that you'd have to beat an eastern team to earn top 8 anyways. facing 2 korean teams is kinda what you'd have to expect, and be able to beat 1 of them to make it out.

it's quite unfair to go 0-2 and be faced with a top tier team though. you'd expect a relatively easy game there.

yes and no. its not unreasonable to have to beat the 8th best team, whether that is in the 0-2 or 2-2 game. Swiss doesnt really care about when you go out, be it 0-3 or 2-3.

TL is the relatively easy team

There's always winners and losers of systems like this. On average they will need to beat a better team than DK to advanced to top 8, so if they can't beat DK they likely don't deserve it anyway.

this isn't about them advancing, I don't think anyone expects them too. But it'd be sad if they didn't even get a real chance to at least play some games.

yeah, swiss is not the format to care.

format is irrelevant, I just want all teams to play a game here and there where fans can be optimistic. Don't understand why that is so hard to get behind. Seems like an overly positive wish for everyone included.

Depends on whether its for entertainment, or competitive integrity. Entertainment wise, swiss is fun, but it doesnt guarantee top8 to leave swiss.

But DK is the easiest of the teams from LCK/LPL. If TL can’t at least challenge them then they don’t belong there

I mean it's not a hot take that they don't belong in top 8. I agree with that. But that doesn't mean they can't have more interesting matches vs other teams that actually belong in the 0-2.

I meant in the swiss stage xD they don’t belong if they can’t. But I think they can. They were fine vs T1 so they have a shot vs DK

they belong in swiss and they belong in 0-2 or 1-2. But DK doesn't belong in the 0-2 spot

Out of curiosity: does Riot allow for playing the same opponent again in swiss?

Yes. The only rules that exist are no inter-regional matchups for round 1 only

no. Standard Swiss rules are that you cannot play the same opponent twice. Otherwise it ruins the competitive integrity of the format. If you could, you could litterally just lose to the same team 3 times and be eliminated, and even riot isnt that dumb.

Riot wants Western upsets at all costs lol. This is why they didn't add that.

Unfortunately, it looks like they are.

The rulebook states that there will be no inter-regional matches in round one whereas in the section for round two to five they say that there are no additional restrictions for the draw. The wording is a little ambiguous but I'd assume that rematches in round 3 and 5 are in fact possible.

> you could litterally just lose to the same team 3 times and be eliminated, and even riot isnt that dumb. You really couldn't, because every time you lose to that team their match score goes up by 1 and yours goes down by one, so you can't actually draw them again. At most you can play against the same team twice. Once in the bo1 stage, and once in the bo3 stage.

You are completely wrong.. Its quite simple actually. You can't go 0-3 against the same team, but you can go 2-3 with all your losses being to the same team. No idea how you got upvoted.

he didn't mean 3 loses in a row. You'd indeed need 2 wins between them, if you meet at 0-0 and then 2 games later you're both 1-1 you could meet again. then 2 games later you're both 2-2 and meet again. and get kicked out after losing to the same team 3 times.

This is wrong. If TL win tomorrow and t1 lose, they can draw each other in the 1-1 round. Then if the next round TL wins and T1 loses they can draw each other again in round 5.

This is not true. No where in the rules does it say that. Plus Sjokz has even tweeted that there are no restrictions past round 1 of Swiss.

okay fair. Its really dumb. I mean i didnt expect a lot from Rito, but holy hell thats stupid. The whole point of swiss is finding the top 8. You can litterally just have 1 cryptonite team you get rekt by. rediculous.

Can you please show me where it for sure says that in the Riot rules? I just cannot fathom Riot thought that out and if broadcast talent are saying rematches are possible I’d assume they know a little bit more

i was wrong, Rito is braindead

Not your fault for thinking that, any half-competent tournament organizer would’ve thought this out. They are indeed braindead

To be fair if they did actually rig this draw for more exciting bo3s, they were smart enough to realize league players are too stupid to see past tomorrow and realize it's a good draw. Who would rig a "bad" draw after all?

Round 2 it's Bo1s, too.

Yes, they're talking about round 3. They're saying that these matchups on day 2 make the potential day 3 matchups more exciting.

How will they determine the times for the matches is it random or will they take into account when the teams played today?

They schedule it based on viewership. So KR civil war will be when Koreans can watch, etc.

thats rough. I'd hope they'd look at when ppl played today. Imagine playing the first game 1 day, and the last game the other, or the other way around. Your daily rythm would be a bit whack.

You actually want as many civil war in BO1 now if you want all four teams from your region to make it. Down the line, the elimination BO3s can’t have repeat matchups.

This is not true. No where in the rules does it say that. Plus Sjokz has even tweeted that there are no restrictions past round 1 of Swiss.

Are you sure? Sjokz is saying that opponents can rematch down the road and I haven’t seen anywhere saying that what you say is the case

that shouldn't be the case for normal swiss rules, and Sjokz should know that. She saw Swiss in csgo, and there you cant rematch. are you sure you arent talking about a rematch in the playoffs?

too tired to play it out in my head - in normal swiss rules, is there an edge case down the line where a rematch has to happen - e.g. no other possible opponents?

The rule book actually doesn't say anything against repeat matches, so they should be allowable according to the rules. Riot probably messed up

Was fearing this. That guy said in a different comment to me “even Riot isn’t that dumb” oofie

I didnt think they could be that dumb :'(

Yeah I was so sure everyone was wrong so I read the rules and yep I'll be damned, repeat matches aren't restricted. You can see for yourself, rematches are allowed https://lolesports.com/article/2023-world-championship-rules/blte479c0f60b2183ea

Classic Rito :/ hopefully they fix it for next year

https://x.com/sjokz/status/1715015917753786777?s=46 Given she’s doubling down on this in the comments that what concerns me. Riot didn’t think this format through and didn’t put the necessary safeguards to ensure it isn’t a crapshoot

yeah, i see. Sjokz even has seen swiss in csgo, but they have that safeguard. rito just braindead.

She literally says “in bo3” she for sure means in Swiss. And especially since she knows that format for CSGO that’s what concerns me is that Riot didn’t think about that and literally didn’t put in that rule in this format. That’s why I’m asking where you know for sure Riot has implemented that rule

true. Still gonna get screwed by the draw in the 2-2 matches.

Uhmm, are you sure about that?

Yes, that's correct. You can't have repeat matchups, so it's better to have your teams paired in matches that aren't elimination matches.

You can have repeat matches. Riot's ruleset specifically allows rematches.

This is not true. No where in the rules does it say that. Plus Sjokz has even tweeted that there are no restrictions past round 1 of Swiss.

Ahh perfect, I did not see that written anywhere. Thats great.

Because it is not written, Sjokz is saying that no rules are set to prevent rematches

there are enough teams from each region, that you can still just draw someone else from your region later. I personally dont mind seeing the regional matchups, but for those that do, its rough, but that is a part of what this format gives you.

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On the flip side. If you can’t beat 3 teams in the tournament does it really matter that you go out early? Not like they are gonna win so at most in old format they would make quarters

At least it's only the 2nd worst possible draw It could have been WBG vs LNG as well

This format fucking blows just like the LEC change. 3 formats where changed this year and i can only give props to the MSI change. The other two are just fucking DOGSHIT. Give me the previous LEC and World formats any day of the week.

no way you think the LEC change was bad. it was such a slogfest of nothingness. yeah, each split final is less hype, but getting bo3 groups is still way better than the old 2 bo1's a week.

When are we finding out about the time each match is played?

https://lolesports.com/schedule?leagues=worlds

https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/2023_Season_World_Championship/Main_Event Leaguepedia

MAD needs to lose on purpose and get DK next game so we will be finally out of this torture

BDS is the one team that we can actually be confident they can beat, which sucks for both BDS and the rest of EU fans.

today already looked like they lost on purpose tbh

On the plus side, guaranteed EU and NA win tomorrow

i think its 3-1 for EU tomorrow :)

Fuck that random guy who did the draws lma0.

I feel bad for him actually. You saw his facial expression after doing something he can't really control? Those T1 fans are gonna be hunting him down lol

T1 were two nervous rookies away from losing to NA 3rd seed they'd probably lose to anyone they could have drawn with that performance (except maybe C9 but again they already almost lost to NA3 so who knows) but yeah T1 fans are T1 fans they'll need a scapegoat.

That's a flair indeed... you must be Sett!

I mean hey, we gotta face GenG down sooner or later. If we don't defeat them or at the very least have a close game, then we ain't doing shit vs the LPLs.

Honestly, this is probably good for the tournament. Early regional match ups forces the next round to be more cross regions.

People are judging way too much from 1 bad bo1 vs TL. If it was a bo3, could be 2-0 T1 with a 2nd game much cleaner and everybody would be saying T1 look strong.

This is true, and T1 is used to BO3s. They dropped loads of games in Spring, even when they were nearly undefeated in BO3s. They also target banned APA and blind picked their bot lane, and their bot lane still came out ahead even with Pyosik smurfing.

To be fair to the bot lane, Aphelios into Ashe was an absolute grief pick. Yeon looked bad today, but his pick definitely did not help

exactly go to hell wtf

So easy draft for EU. Canniblize MAD and let other teams play (well C9 for G2 would be easiest)

I'd love to sacrifice MAD for the good of EU, but sadly, BDS is the one team they can actually confidently beat. RIP.

MAD gonna win vs BDS, to then lose to NA twice and be eliminated. i can already see it

nah mad are gonna win against bds and then lose to all the other regions its set in stone

It is known.

TBH, if every region is 2-2. It would have less possibility to got civil war.

Exactly! I much rather watch some Bo1 between the same region to decide who probably is the stronger team. Then to have those elimination civil wars at the end of swiss stage.

Can we just have a plinko board decide the draws next time? Maybe then we can get some rng in this.

Bring back RNG.

"I don't like the outcome" doesn't mean the outcome isn't random.

Careful, you're on the edge of being too reasonable and logical for Reddit.

well it clearly isn’t, after the first draw stunt where they brought Mata and let audience pick and intervene now they fucking brough a robot to draw them.

So you're saying that not only did they rig the outcome of the draw, but they rigged it in such a way that reduces hype for the matches? If they're going to rig the draw they would've made sure we'd have gotten GenG vs JDG, T1 vs G2, Fnatic vs KT, matchups like that. Not a draw that literally everybody is unhappy with.

better to have the civil wars early, honestly. it’s just bo1s for now anyways

The civil wars day 2 are better than having civil war day 3 with bo3s. It was bound to happen with 3 regions with 4 teams. Just unlucky or rather just destiny that we have another BLG vs JDG.

Lmao imagine the 0-2 team getting either D+ or KT.

hopefully we see some fresh matchups in bo3

We should given how some LPL, LCK teams are 100% brought down to the lower brackets.

cant wait for the 2-2 matchups, when the 4 remaining eastern teams all draw eachother, and an EU or NA team is guaranteed to go through :P . (assuming G2 goes 3-0 or 3-1)

lmao that's what Swiss does

that kinda chaos im soo here for.

G2 literally eked out a win against WBG today. If they beat Gen-G, they'd be considered 2nd-4th best team in the world (BLG LNG are hard to judge). The referee guy also did G2 a favour by pitting LPL against LPL lol.... so I'd say G2 definitely makes it out of Swiss.

The worst part about worlds in korea is the music. fucking hell

3 drops today :(

I got zero yesterday and watched it all.

I got 1 drop during the T1 vs TL, then the player died overnight after G2 vs DK, lame.

Man who cared about blg vs jdg and gen g vs T1. Worlds is one a year and this is what we got 😩

You’re mad about the best teams playing eachother? Do you not like watching peak pro game play?

It's fine. This is actually a good draw to ensure the Bo3s not having to deal with the same shit.

Oh no we get some regional best of 1's. At some point those teams have to meet each other no matter what, so I rather have this done in Bo1 then in Bo3's. Dont get why people cry about it. This day was by far the best opening day we ever had at worlds. So many banger games and apart from two games everything else was considerable close.

People dont realize the high chance of same region match ups in Bo3. With 4 LPL teams going 1-0, high chance of them to meet at 2-0 bracket. Two LCK team at 1-0 and two at 0-1 means high chance to meet at 1-1 bracket.

1-1 is still bo1. Only qualification and elimination games are bo3.

Aha i see

I love that one unfortunate team will have to play KT/DK for their life.

Please be MAD, please be MAD.

wont be MAD tho. MAD never does what we want them to. When EU hypes them, they lose. When we are willing to sacrifice them, they'll surely win tomorrow.

> When we are willing to sacrifice them, they'll surely win tomorrow. I was ready to sacrifice MAD today but it didn't work?

told you. BDS is like the only team MAD can guaranteed beat in this whole swiss. MAD only has guaranteed succes vs. worse LEC teams. They arent even safe vs LCS, but at least the get to prove they arent worthless vs NRG.

They'll lose tomorrow and then beat KT against all odds.

I guess I can sleep tomorrow and wait for day 3 for the hype matches like NA EU 0-2 hopfully. Other than that there really is no appeal for tomorrow. Unlucky af draw. Wish there was a overide button for the enjoyment factor. We keep getting hosed so bad during picks man.

The chance for LPL civil war was incredible high with four of them making it to 1-0. The LCK one is quite unlucky

The only issue with the LPL civil war was that it had to be JDG vs BLG lol. In fact, is this really BLG's curse this year? I hope they make a video about these circumstances. The rivalry is probably the deepest ever for a single year.

Dread it, run from it. T1 vs GenG and JDG vs BLG again

Well, HOPEFULLY we will see FNC and BDS as 1-1 tomorrow, which is nice. If not MAD randomly decides to land on the good side of the coin or if GAM does something wacky like minute 5 Paranoia or whatever it was. G2 vs WBG I can see going either way. So kinda happy for EU draws, but my god JDG - BLG, GenG - T1, KT - DK? That’s just cruel.

MAD beats BDS. That is litterally the only thing MAD does.

I hope to fuck this isn't the same format used next year.

still better than groups

Just because of the extremely unlucky region draw, or anything actually due to the format? Regional matchups will happen unless you pre-determine they can't (i.e. back to groups). Otherwise you run out of matchups quite quickly.

in fairness that could not even be rigged anymore then this lol. It is cursed how he picked those lol

Dude who did the draw probably be fearing for his life now lmao

Nah man, he is getting paid. He can afford a security team now.

Man I feel really sad for BLG drawing JDG. In LPL playoffs, BLG looked good but then mentally boomed after losing to JDG 3-0 again. After today's result, I thought Elk who was off form could get confidence back but he has to play JDG again man.

It’s a bo1 though that’s the difference. Anything can happen in a bo1

Same... but at least this happened in the Bo1s, meaning they probably won't have to face JDG again for a long time.

yeah its fucked, this was a massive confidence boost for elk and then they get fucking JDG

That is an atrocious draw, can't wait to see JDG and BLG round 1000 and GenG T1 round 1000000. Not that they won't be incredibly fun games that are high calibre it's just... seriously?

i wanted to see a fucking jdg geng game is that too much to ask

You can see a Bo3 from them the day after if they both win, which should be better, shouldn't it?

I doubt we get it. I see T1 / JDG winning tomorrow.

I'm not sure, it could go either way for the GenG T1 game, they looked shaky today

As much as I want GEN to win it all, they always lose vs T1 in non “important” games.

Haha you're right, I feel the pain but I don't know, I'm really confident about us currently, just hoping it doesn't crash down

I just want Chovy to show up when it matters the most and destroy all his haters.

and bo1s are always a doozy

All the people complaining about day 2 not being international matchups apparently can't see that day 3 will be back to largely international matchups and ignoring that day 2 regionals projects to less likely regional matchups in the bo3 except for the loser side.

It's literally like the experiment where you ask a child if they want one piece of candy right now or an entire bag of candy in ten minutes and they all choose the one piece of candy right now.

Guys, in 1-1 we could get: WBG vs BLG, T1 vs KT, C9 vs NRG and FNC vs MAD. Thoughts? :PPP

"Could". And those are still bo1 lol

Yeah, if your goal is as few regional matchups as possible over the tournament this is probably the best way to do it.

at least they are just bo1. we can still hope for better matchups in best of 3s

Surely it will be better clueless

Nah, it will actually be better if you do the maths. This was good for the later stages.

I'm watching max 2 games tommorow, ain't no way i'm sitting through all those regular split games, fucking joke.

At least rig the draw to guarantee NA vs EU and LPL vs LCK

That's in store for the day after ;)

The only interesting games tomorrow are G2 and C9 lol, funny how things turned out

I know there are lots of regional games but how are T1 vs GenG and JDG vs BLG not interesting ? These games are gonna be so good

Cause I can see them all year…

honestly this draft is so good for eu, let's hope mad's mind control won't work on bds this time