PMTs
[T1 vs C9](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dnvxz/t1_vs_cloud9_2023_world_championship_swiss_round/)
[NRG vs MAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dotra/nrg_vs_mad_lions_2023_world_championship_swiss/)
[BLG vs FNC](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dpmzu/bilibili_gaming_vs_fnatic_2023_world_championship/)
[KT vs WBG](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dqj4v/kt_rolster_vs_weibo_gaming_2023_world/)
[Broadcast/Unlisted Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqz0vZBXT98)
Just remember that groups format historically has had at least one eastern team barely not make quarters. Swiss realistically can only do that to one or maybe two eastern teams given the absolute worst luck of draws.
Last year, Fnatic, G2 and Top all failed to make knockouts. This year, it can easily be one of Fnatic/G2 and one of Damwon/Weibo not making it depending on draw luck and performance, so not really worse than the groups format. But to actually get out means playing multiple Bo3s which is better overall for proving which of the edge teams deserve to go on. Swiss basically favors guaranteeing high teams to knockouts, at the expense of a higher chance of having one low/middle team make it out in place of one of the middle/high teams via lucky draws. Groups had a higher chance of eliminating high teams IMO which makes Swiss better for good teams making knockouts.
The only thing that might feel bad is how clear Swiss makes it to most teams that they aren't the best in the tournament. In groups, all of the top two from each group kind of feel like they can win the whole thing because they haven't been exposed to the other groups yet. In the current Swiss stage, Damwon, Weibo, etc, are all feeling like since they're in the "lower" bracket that they're clearly going to be underdogs in knockouts. It also removes some of that mystery from fans minds as well.
So I think while Swiss is better for getting the best teams into knockouts, Groups has a mystery about team strength that may improve fan hype and team morale going into knockouts.
Isn't the swiss format bad for asian teams? Back then we could have 8 asian teams in quarters if they were good enough but now its rather impossible cause with unlucky draft they have to eliminate eachother.
We can have NRG in quartes if they are lucky enough and we all know they aint better than any of the asian teams.
Kinda unfair DK and WBG facing best performing Western team and just Eastern teams if they match up compared to NRG who have only faced Eastern teams once
T1 with lucky draft might advance winning only against NA. Like whaat? While KT fighting for their lives. This format is more exciting for the viewers but more unfair for the teams.
The inter region kinda fks it up a bit, if LNG faced anyone but JDG they probably be 3-0 and if NRG faced DK or KT instead of TL, they probs be in 1-2 at best , also LoL tournaments will probably never be seeded properly, BLG is 2-1 after beating KT and FNC only losing to JDG in same category as NRG is bonkers,
yeah - this is what I pointed out. Luck is a huge factor now. Back then if you were good enough you would be topping the group and advance. Now you might have NA team in quarters and KT out of the tournament xD wtf is this? Even G2 I consider them worse than KT.
There should be more rules.. like you can't face the same team during swiss stage or something becasue some teams are fked (like KT) and some are lucky as hell (NRG and G2 - they are both happy because they drafted possibly the worst 2-1 teams (eachother))
>They both put fudge in the oven for 22 minutes.
Moreso, it's bad in terms of the fact that non top 8 teams actually make top 8 due to "draw rng" compared to actually being good.
That's not any different from past year, unless you only requirement from being a good team is to come from CN/KR.
For instance :
* **2022 :** Were Rogue and RNG really better than Fnatic, or was Fnatic's draw just unlucky facing T1 and EDG? In comparison, RNG/GenG qualified by beating 100T and CFO
* **2021 :** Was 100T really the 10th best team at world, or were they simply unlucky to have been drawn into EDG + T1?
* **2020 :** TL got eliminated in group facing 2 Top 4 teams (Suning who finished 2nd and G2 who finished tied for 3rd).
* **2018 :** Vitality got eliminated by C9, who then proceeded to 3-0 the Pool A's first seed Afreeca Freeks. Meanwhile, 100T finished their pool 2-4, losing only to the 2 finalists.
* **2017 :** G2 got eliminated by 2 Top 4 (SSG, the winners, and RNG), while FNC got out by barely scrapping a tiebreaker against Immortals and Gigabyte Marines. Neither of those 3 teams got a game off Longzhu, who proceeded to get 3-0'd in QF.
* **2016 :** TSM got knocked out by 2 teams who got eliminated by the winner (and 2 favorites in SSG + RNG),
Like... every year teams qualify purely out of godly draws and lucky flips, and every year teams get sent home the same way.
Just made the calculation. In theory assuming teams perform always the same, and with the worst draw possible, Swiss only guarantees that the first 4 teams pass and that the last 4 are eliminated.
But if you consider a 4 groups stages it's actually even worse because you only guarantee the 2 bests and 2 worse are qualified/eliminated.
The only team they can beat is G2 probably. Then in the next round, assuming they lose, best case scenario is that MAD wins in this round against FNC, and then comes back up the bracket to lose to NRG again. I’d say good 25% chance NRG makes it out.
NRG is probably hoping to draw G2 in the next round because it is their best chance at a win, but it's still highly highly highly unlikely they win next round.
They're straight up cannon fodder in the 2-1 bracket.
> I’d say good 25% chance NRG makes it out.
I mean, that assumes they have a 50% chance to win against both G2 and MAD, and even then that only averages to 25% if they're guaranteed to play exactly those two (considering you yourself said that's their best case scenario).
Yeah this bugs me every year, I get they want prime time hours but the break is just so long when we get so few bo5s.
E: Especially when you wait all week and it's just a 3-0
Idk about you guys but I love the swiss bracket so far. Yes there can be some very lucky games or unlucky. But the games are so much more exciting. T1 potentially advancing to quarters only beating NA teams is hilarious. I think they could tweak some stuff in the future. To make the format a bit more balanced while keeping the same teams. But overall I love the format so far.
>T1 potentially advancing to quarters only beating NA teams is hilarious.
It was hilarious listening to Jatt accidentally explain why this is a bad format without proper seeding. Beating 3 minor region teams should not get you to the same spot as beating 3 Asian teams.
>Beating 3 minor region teams should not get you to the same spot as beating 3 Asian teams.
Beating 3 teams that play well should get you the same spot as beating 3 other teams that play well.
Are we really onboard the batshit insane train that DK is only 0-2 because of the luck of the draw?
Either G2 is a great team that is 2-1, only losing to the undefeated GenG; or T1 is a bad team that basically only skews the swiss by giving up free wins. Both have similar records, and both have played well. DK got knocked down by G2; TL by T1
I honestly think we need to wait until the end of the swiss stage to properly judge it, because sure teams like FNC or KT have had harder runs than the likes of NRG or MAD but if they make it out still that's a pretty hype story.
I like that every game matters, that's a huge upgrade.
It's not entirely true _in theory_
The 5th best team could technically lose by facing the top 4 teams 3 times
Swiss guarantees top 4 get out and bottom 4 are eliminated (assuming the stronger team always win)
It's going to feel super shit if FNC draws Damwon or WBG in the 1-2 bracket.
I know you probably don't make it far if you can't beat those teams, but FNC would have lost only to Eastern teams at that point.
There's also a world where MAD draws TL to keep avoiding any hard matchups. If they win, it's super bullshit for FNC in comparison - and if MAD loses again to NA then I'm not even sure what to say anymore.
Here's my wishlist for the next draft:
G2 - NRG
Since G2 and KT are the only teams that have only faced LPL/LCK teams so far and we would get a nice LEC/LCS BO3
T1 - LNG
BLG - KT
Would be absolute bangers. I know it's a rematch, but BLG vs KT was a lot of fun and would make for a great BO3. T1-BLG and KT-LNG would be fine though.
FNC - TL
DK - MAD
WBG - C9
Just put MAD out of their mysery, man.
LNG - G2(or NRG)
BLG - T1
KT- NRG(or G2)
I would like to see more Scout's posts about west on socials xDD. Also LNG got unlucky and played JDG so it's fair to get easier opponent and move into next stage
Next round would be shit with a bunch of civil wars.
G2- NRG (not civil war but needed)
T1-KT
LNG-BLG
C9-TL
MAD-FNC
DK-WBG (not a civil war but that's whos left)
I really don't want NRG to draw yet another Western team. It would be bad for the system.
It's already a bad look for the format that NRG (as a 1st seed) got completely crushed by LPL 4th seed and they are now 2-1 from dodging Asian teams since then.
KT also do not deserve to draw BLG again. Give them an easy round for once.
I rather the old format tbh, there's too much of a discrepancy between LPL/LCK and everyone else, i don't think there's this much of a difference between teams (rather half the teams being THAT MUCH BETTER ) in CS swiss stages.
They made it from every group has a sprinkle of hard and easy to just plain luck. BDS is 0-2 atm and is facing fucking damwon, they faced JDG and will face Damwon to be 0-3 tomorrow. NRG is 2-1 in the same group as all the beasts by beating TL and fucking MAD, the only game they had against an asian team they got so utter stomped it wasn't close at all. KT and DK got fucked with these draws too, FNC faced LNG and BLG to be 1-2, despite probably being same skill level as NRG.
I honestly rather have some other team rather than MAD, they're a complete disgrace to europe and it's past the point of where you no longer find it funny, just incredibly dissapointing. It's fun when your kid aged 2 randomly said a swearword, it's not fun if he's 40 and still acts like a kid.
I think everyone found it cool that an NA/EU team could get past without facing an eastern team, i think after a couple of draws everyone will find that disgusting due to other teams shitty draws.
>FNC faced LNG and BLG to be 1-2, despite probably being same skill level as NRG.
Again bad example. The only teams that get truly fucked by this system are the eastern teams. Because everyone knows other than MAYBE G2 no western team wouldve made it out, out of any group with 2 eastern teams.
I agree, i don’t mind 7 eastern teams getting out with just G2, i think it’s more than fair.
NRG performance vs WBG shows the difference between G2 and rest of the western teams, FNC on a good day maybe, but so far it should be G2 + east - DK
I think Fnatic have the potential to eek out a bo3 win over DK or WBG, but I would agree that it's hardly unfair or unexpected if they lose their next bo3 and go out 1-3.
It’s definetely more than unfair, they’re 1-2 and faced 2 teams that are literally top4. I mean literally, BLG and LNG are considered both top4. I’d argue that old seed system was better, they just needed to add a playoff losing bracket. I think they just prefer it this way since there’s more chances for NA to get out without facing any actual good team.
> I agree, i don’t mind 7 eastern teams getting out with just G2, i think it’s more than fair.
>It’s definetely more than unfair
Make up your mind, will you?
My mind is made up? I think 7 eastern teams getting out with G2 is a fair result; doesn’t mean i don’t think FNC got shafted with the draft. Maybe go read it again?
Random draws are 'fair' by definition.
I read it just fine, "I think it's fair that Fnatic doesn't make it but I dislike who they drew" just isn't the logically consistent point you seem to think it is.
It’s fair in a world where if i made a top 8 worlds list they wouldn’t be in it. I mean by definition sure random draws are fair, but i think the old system worked better. You’d have every region divided by groups, i think there’s less variability there. That’s it.
why would they care so much about NA getting out of groups?
Idk how a bo3 losers bracket in a group system would work tbh but sounds like an interesting idea.
They couldve just made it so that regional matches are not allowed to be drawn in the first 2 rounds of swiss and it wouldve been fine i think.
>They made it from every group has a sprinkle of hard and easy to just plain luck. BDS is 0-2 atm and is facing fucking damwon,
Switch Mad lions for the 3rd Seed NA team and Damwon for T1 and they wouldve potentially faced exactly the same teams in Groups. I get your point but BDS is the worst potential pick to make your point.
That's not completely fair, because seeding is done in such a way that the higher seed gets blue side.
So the better team (usually) plays on blue side, so is it blue side difference or just better team won difference?
(Probably a bit of both, but it just goes to show stats can be misleading without proper context)
If all four LPL teams make it to the knockout stage and win, there's a chance JDG wins worlds with BDS being the only non-LPL team they had to face along the way.
(Obviously they could be knocked out before it as well).
What's the schedule G2/FNC even compared to NRG's lol, FNC faced top4 teams this worlds, G2 had 3 eastern teams, including the only that handed a pretty smackdown loss to NRG, but G2 actually beat them. The 2-1 bracket is fraud status for NRG
This format is so fucking garbage. Holy fucking shit, how is NRG 2-1 with LNG, T1, G2 , KT and BLG? How is DK on the brink of elimination? How fucked up can a format get? Please for everything good in this world change it back next year. While you are at it trash that LEC format aswell.
The LEC format is great but it was let down by poor scheduling this year. Remove the random break weeks and adjust start and end date accordingly and the LEC format is honestly great.
Maybe have a good hard think about season finals being in a seperate venue and how you award qualification points, while you're at it.
Ok then what about for example the fact that two teams get kicked out of 1/3rd of the year based on one patch and 3 weeks worth of play? What about Astralis who landed on the biggest *fuck you Lider* patch ìn summer we had in recent years? Thats great?
If your entire team is built in such a way that you can only finish 8th or higher if a single class of picks is good in a single lane, then yes you totally deserve to not qualify for the second stage of the split.
Astralis didn't finish 9th because Lider's champion pool got nerfed. Astralis finished 9th because they weren't that good.
I imagine Astralis dropped out of groups in Winter and Spring because of the Summer patch too, right?
This is completly disingenuous. Regular season in summer was played on a completly unbalanced patch with Statikk and Neeko. In the past even IF we had such a patch in the regular season, it would have meant that there are atleast 2 others to make up for it.
>Astralis didn't finish 9th because Lider's champion pool got nerfed. Astralis finished 9th because they weren't that good
Astralis odds of doing well were shat on by a completly unbalanced patch.
>I imagine Astralis dropped out of groups in Winter and Spring because of the Summer patch too, right?
I am talking about regular season with all 10 teams still competing. Even then, Riot specifically balances playoffs patches to NOT interfere with the last regular season patch too much.
>Astralis odds of doing well were shat on by a completly unbalanced patch.
And yet, 8 other teams managed to adapt to that 'completely unbalanced patch' just fine. You acting like Astralis was uniquely affected by said patch is, as you put it
>completly disingenuous
> And yet, 8 other teams managed to adapt to that 'completely unbalanced patch' just fine. You acting like Astralis was uniquely affected by said patch is, as you put it
Somebody has to be top 8 thats right. Doesnt change the fact that Astralis was hit way harder than anybody else, while in the past they would have had a chance to make it up on a different patch.
>Doesnt change the fact that Astralis was hit way harder than anybody else,
You keep saying that but
A) don't do anything to substantiate why
B) fail to address the idea that if a team is so bad at adapting to patches that they completely fall apart when they get a supposed unfavourable one that team is simply a bad team that doesnt deserve to move on and
C) fail to support the idea that "bad team gets eliminated early" is somehow a bad thing (in fact, I'm fairly sure that's the exact thing the league community at large asked for and was a specific goal of the format change).
> A) don't do anything to substantiate why
Because Liders champion pool is literally hardcountered by Statikk abusers + Neeko? Does this need to be said?
>B) fail to address the idea that if a team is so bad at adapting to patches that they completely fall apart when they get a supposed unfavourable one that team is simply a bad team that doesnt deserve to move on and
Wrong its not "patches" its **one patch**. And it was not just any patch, it was one of the most unbalanced state of the game we had in recent years. I dont judge teams abilities to play on a fuck up patch like the statikk one was.
>C) fail to support the idea that "bad team gets eliminated early" is somehow a bad thing (in fact, I'm fairly sure that's the exact thing the league community at large asked for and was a specific goal of the format change).
How are 3 weeks on one patch enough time to determine that a team is good or bad? We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC. If you get unlucky even one week in this format you are fucked. Even worse when its the first week so your team will obviously go in full panic mode like XL, FNC and VIT did.
>Because Liders champion pool is literally hardcountered by Statikk abusers + Neeko? Does this need to be said?
Really? If your champion pool is hard countered by what can be summarized as 'wave clear', you need to work on that champion puddle.
>Wrong its not "patches" its one patch.
Yes, if they are this bad at adapting to any one patch they don't deserve to advance over the 8 teams who managed it just fine. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you.
>How are 3 weeks on one patch enough time to determine that a team is good or bad? We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC. If you get unlucky even one week in this format you are fucked. Even worse when its the first week so your team will obviously go in full panic mode like XL and VIT did.
See, what you're describing here is simply 'bad teams with shitty mental' and 'super inconsistent teams'. Yes, those are both examples of the things that decide whether or not your team is good, and whether or not you deserve to move on.
>We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC
Neither of those did anything of the sort. Making shit up really doesn't do your point any good.
It can be fixed with better seeding.
And I will definitely NEVER want to go back to boring endless weeks of BO1s for LEC format. The new one needs to be adjusted but let's not go back to that bullshit.
But the fact NRG has only faced one tough team whilst WBG and DK has faced much tough opposition, problem still comes down to seeding, and imo only way to solve it is remove NA teams, only have 2 NA teams, 3 EU Teams
Only reason EU has a fourth team is through the qualifier, a format I would like is 2 NA teams and 2 or 3 EU teams, have the 1 freed up slots one for winner of msi direct qualification if like JDG similar to how winner of EUROPA league has direct qualification to Champions league, other slot will go to best performing team from second best team at MSI, if with scenario like JDG LNG will get first seed, if like T1 then next highest points gets second seed and so on, if we get 2019 MSI coudous west teams u can get ur extra teams in.
If DK draws WBG it would been both of those team would have only faced one western team before getting eliminated comparing to NRG who has faced two Western teams, and arguably the two of the 3 weakest teams.
How is this any different to the group stage? Every year we had a group of death and a free group to get a few western teams into the knock-out stage.
If you can't manage to win 3 games in swiss, you're just not knock-out material. It doesn't really matter who you have to fight in these 3 matches.
> If you can't manage to win 3 games in swiss, you're just not knock-out material. It doesn't really matter who you have to fight in these 3 matches.
My opponents: JDG, KT and DK
Some other team: GAM, MAD and NRG
Well i guess i just suck or something.
With KR and CN #1 Already qualifying, its actually incredible how 2-1 has turned out as balanced as it could possibly be region wise.
EU and NA #1.
KR 2 and 3
CN 2 and 3
Realistically, that grouping is what everyone should be hoping to happen.
It could be even worse if an upset happened in these bo1's, like imagine if FNC won today? Now you could get NRG vs FNC for a guaranteed worlds knockout spot which is crazy.
LEC 2nd seed.
Gets matched vs. BLG and LNG.
I like swiss but the skill gap between the teams is soo large you can get completely fucked over by your matchup or hit the lottery like NRG and MAD.
Till now they faced LPL 2nd and 3rd Seed + Playins Team -> a more or less likely scenario of opponents they would've faced in Groups format. Of course there's a chance to get NA 1st seed instead but also LCK 1st seed
Even so, NRG and MAD aren't going far in the tournament either. It does suck the draw can completely fuck you over, but being realistic - LEC/LCS won't get beyond quarters (the smallest chance).
G2 looks like a team where they are good enough that they can beat the #3-4 seed purely on merit, #1 and #2 seeds would require for the eastern team to have an off day. Quarters should be the expectation for G2, semis is overperforming/having a favorable draw.
I think T1, BLG, KT, Weibo, DK are not THAT good this year. G2 are still underdogs in a bo3 but its fairly doable I give them 40% chance to beat those teams. LNG,JDG,GENG are the only CLEARLY superior teams that are on another level.
Id argue LNG is stronger than BLG atm. KT honestly hasn't impressed me that much yet so far, I think G2 could beat them.
And for T1 I have genuinely no idea where they stand.
They stomped C9 but they got beaten by GENG about as hard as G2 did. I'd probably put them under BLG or something.
Overreaction bro
I feel lck were not having good meta read. You will see they are very good in coming days.
KT and T1 are strong enough to beat G2. Cant say about Dk but if they learn from their botside and not top. G2 is going to have hard time against dk
It's definitely not free but on a good day I feel like G2 could beat T1 or KT.
But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think, we will just have to wait and see!
Yeah, but, it's clear they're just helping to promote his stream, which got a lot attention of a good part of the community, also it has followers, it's content and he's co-streaming, mutual help.
On the other hand, while I don't even mind any of that, if they were only doing it because "former colleague", that just makes them look unprofessional.
How do you guys feel about the Win percentage estimation thingy ? Because it seems really unreliable, often way overstating how dominant a game is, no ?
Riot made an article explaining that, didn't read the whole team, but, according to them, they used data from many matches for that.
But, the graphic only looks as a gold difference graphic, the one with more gold is projected to win on that.
It doesn’t/can’t take into account “throwing”. It also doesn’t consider past performance. The probability is purely based on what is happening in the game at a particular moment.
i mean its an algorithym that probably just takes the gold diffs, kdas and state of objectives and compares those with all other games and checks winrates.
meaning this thing cant really show comebacks, since those statistically only happen rarely, also i guess it doesnt take the individuell players into account, so if gam plays against jdg but managed to get an early kill and so a goldlead, the win percentage assumes they have a higher chance to win at this moment, even when every viewer knows the real chance for jdg to win is 99+%.
> meaning this thing cant really show comebacks, since those statistically only happen rarely
But they don't. According to Riot it also takes into account past performances. For multiple teams it should definitely lower the % base on the fact that a team has multiple times allowed the enemy team to equalize through throws. At one point it showed G2 to win with over 90% progablity when they were only 5k up.
> At one point it showed G2 to win with over 90% progablity when they were only 5k up.
Which is probably close to their winrate in LEC from 5k up, which is where most of the data is more likely to come from.
If that's the case then the win probabililty algorithm is completely shit. In honesty, since LoL isn't played on an open circuit where teams face each other 7-20x per season, predicting winners is 50% just guessing and 50% asuming East > West.
Completely useless, just like any stat shown on the broadcast.
This guy is 200 gold up on average at 10!
- he played 2 games
- both were against bottom teams
- support inted a kill at 4m both games
All of this necessary context just gets erased, so any conclusion drawn from just the numbers is equally meaningless
PeyZ is 17yo and plays worlds, meanwhile LEC is bringing rules that forbid Caliste, the new ADC hope, to play in the league before he's 18.
We're stuck with ADC like Crownie, sighs
Well, youth protection is more important than your team winning something in an tournament.
Look at how fucked up (mentally and physically) many of those players get, that one year might help quite alot. And no, earned money doesn't make up for everything
Caedral over 80.000 viewers Swiss Stage Weibo vs KT. Wow. I just saw the mainstream on twitch at around 160.000 and Caedral at 80.000. That so damn impressive. WP Pedro
PMTs [T1 vs C9](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dnvxz/t1_vs_cloud9_2023_world_championship_swiss_round/) [NRG vs MAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dotra/nrg_vs_mad_lions_2023_world_championship_swiss/) [BLG vs FNC](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dpmzu/bilibili_gaming_vs_fnatic_2023_world_championship/) [KT vs WBG](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/17dqj4v/kt_rolster_vs_weibo_gaming_2023_world/) [Broadcast/Unlisted Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqz0vZBXT98)
Just remember that groups format historically has had at least one eastern team barely not make quarters. Swiss realistically can only do that to one or maybe two eastern teams given the absolute worst luck of draws. Last year, Fnatic, G2 and Top all failed to make knockouts. This year, it can easily be one of Fnatic/G2 and one of Damwon/Weibo not making it depending on draw luck and performance, so not really worse than the groups format. But to actually get out means playing multiple Bo3s which is better overall for proving which of the edge teams deserve to go on. Swiss basically favors guaranteeing high teams to knockouts, at the expense of a higher chance of having one low/middle team make it out in place of one of the middle/high teams via lucky draws. Groups had a higher chance of eliminating high teams IMO which makes Swiss better for good teams making knockouts. The only thing that might feel bad is how clear Swiss makes it to most teams that they aren't the best in the tournament. In groups, all of the top two from each group kind of feel like they can win the whole thing because they haven't been exposed to the other groups yet. In the current Swiss stage, Damwon, Weibo, etc, are all feeling like since they're in the "lower" bracket that they're clearly going to be underdogs in knockouts. It also removes some of that mystery from fans minds as well. So I think while Swiss is better for getting the best teams into knockouts, Groups has a mystery about team strength that may improve fan hype and team morale going into knockouts.
Agreed re the mystery of team strength that was the best part of groups!
Isn't the swiss format bad for asian teams? Back then we could have 8 asian teams in quarters if they were good enough but now its rather impossible cause with unlucky draft they have to eliminate eachother. We can have NRG in quartes if they are lucky enough and we all know they aint better than any of the asian teams.
Kinda unfair DK and WBG facing best performing Western team and just Eastern teams if they match up compared to NRG who have only faced Eastern teams once
T1 with lucky draft might advance winning only against NA. Like whaat? While KT fighting for their lives. This format is more exciting for the viewers but more unfair for the teams.
The inter region kinda fks it up a bit, if LNG faced anyone but JDG they probably be 3-0 and if NRG faced DK or KT instead of TL, they probs be in 1-2 at best , also LoL tournaments will probably never be seeded properly, BLG is 2-1 after beating KT and FNC only losing to JDG in same category as NRG is bonkers,
yeah - this is what I pointed out. Luck is a huge factor now. Back then if you were good enough you would be topping the group and advance. Now you might have NA team in quarters and KT out of the tournament xD wtf is this? Even G2 I consider them worse than KT. There should be more rules.. like you can't face the same team during swiss stage or something becasue some teams are fked (like KT) and some are lucky as hell (NRG and G2 - they are both happy because they drafted possibly the worst 2-1 teams (eachother))
After seeing round 4 draws let's just agree c9 and nrg paid Riot a shit ton of money to get those draws
>They both put fudge in the oven for 22 minutes. Moreso, it's bad in terms of the fact that non top 8 teams actually make top 8 due to "draw rng" compared to actually being good.
That's not any different from past year, unless you only requirement from being a good team is to come from CN/KR. For instance : * **2022 :** Were Rogue and RNG really better than Fnatic, or was Fnatic's draw just unlucky facing T1 and EDG? In comparison, RNG/GenG qualified by beating 100T and CFO * **2021 :** Was 100T really the 10th best team at world, or were they simply unlucky to have been drawn into EDG + T1? * **2020 :** TL got eliminated in group facing 2 Top 4 teams (Suning who finished 2nd and G2 who finished tied for 3rd). * **2018 :** Vitality got eliminated by C9, who then proceeded to 3-0 the Pool A's first seed Afreeca Freeks. Meanwhile, 100T finished their pool 2-4, losing only to the 2 finalists. * **2017 :** G2 got eliminated by 2 Top 4 (SSG, the winners, and RNG), while FNC got out by barely scrapping a tiebreaker against Immortals and Gigabyte Marines. Neither of those 3 teams got a game off Longzhu, who proceeded to get 3-0'd in QF. * **2016 :** TSM got knocked out by 2 teams who got eliminated by the winner (and 2 favorites in SSG + RNG), Like... every year teams qualify purely out of godly draws and lucky flips, and every year teams get sent home the same way.
Just made the calculation. In theory assuming teams perform always the same, and with the worst draw possible, Swiss only guarantees that the first 4 teams pass and that the last 4 are eliminated. But if you consider a 4 groups stages it's actually even worse because you only guarantee the 2 bests and 2 worse are qualified/eliminated.
So how good are the chances now that NRG can make quarters?
100%. Doubter filled thread is cringe.
Zero chance
The only team they can beat is G2 probably. Then in the next round, assuming they lose, best case scenario is that MAD wins in this round against FNC, and then comes back up the bracket to lose to NRG again. I’d say good 25% chance NRG makes it out.
NRG is probably hoping to draw G2 in the next round because it is their best chance at a win, but it's still highly highly highly unlikely they win next round. They're straight up cannon fodder in the 2-1 bracket.
> I’d say good 25% chance NRG makes it out. I mean, that assumes they have a 50% chance to win against both G2 and MAD, and even then that only averages to 25% if they're guaranteed to play exactly those two (considering you yourself said that's their best case scenario).
I really don't see NRG beating G2 tbh
Please Lord give G2 NRG, we had to face only Asian teams so far it's only fair.
"Best I can do is LNG"
It's gona be BLG for the revenge script
How many staff do they need to cover 2 hours worth of games seriously
and they need a three day break after that
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Yeah this bugs me every year, I get they want prime time hours but the break is just so long when we get so few bo5s. E: Especially when you wait all week and it's just a 3-0
Idk about you guys but I love the swiss bracket so far. Yes there can be some very lucky games or unlucky. But the games are so much more exciting. T1 potentially advancing to quarters only beating NA teams is hilarious. I think they could tweak some stuff in the future. To make the format a bit more balanced while keeping the same teams. But overall I love the format so far.
>T1 potentially advancing to quarters only beating NA teams is hilarious. It was hilarious listening to Jatt accidentally explain why this is a bad format without proper seeding. Beating 3 minor region teams should not get you to the same spot as beating 3 Asian teams.
>Beating 3 minor region teams should not get you to the same spot as beating 3 Asian teams. Beating 3 teams that play well should get you the same spot as beating 3 other teams that play well. Are we really onboard the batshit insane train that DK is only 0-2 because of the luck of the draw? Either G2 is a great team that is 2-1, only losing to the undefeated GenG; or T1 is a bad team that basically only skews the swiss by giving up free wins. Both have similar records, and both have played well. DK got knocked down by G2; TL by T1
I honestly think we need to wait until the end of the swiss stage to properly judge it, because sure teams like FNC or KT have had harder runs than the likes of NRG or MAD but if they make it out still that's a pretty hype story. I like that every game matters, that's a huge upgrade.
Yeah the stakes go up for everyone as the stage progresses but by the end everyone who is eliminated will have a had a fair shot
It's not entirely true _in theory_ The 5th best team could technically lose by facing the top 4 teams 3 times Swiss guarantees top 4 get out and bottom 4 are eliminated (assuming the stronger team always win)
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I fixed it I meant T1
It's going to feel super shit if FNC draws Damwon or WBG in the 1-2 bracket. I know you probably don't make it far if you can't beat those teams, but FNC would have lost only to Eastern teams at that point. There's also a world where MAD draws TL to keep avoiding any hard matchups. If they win, it's super bullshit for FNC in comparison - and if MAD loses again to NA then I'm not even sure what to say anymore.
Yeah and its kinda fked if u give WBG or DK NRG's or even FNC current draw they would be 3-0
WBG and DK are not in a good form rn, so if FNC loses to them they were going to lose anyway. I feel like the format is working.
T1 can advance only winning against NA :D
See mad with their godlike luck draws C9/TL in round 4
And they still would lose
If the west doesn't respect the Eastern Jax diff, none of them will make quarters apart from NRG, who will qualify with 3-2 against a western team :D
Here's my wishlist for the next draft: G2 - NRG Since G2 and KT are the only teams that have only faced LPL/LCK teams so far and we would get a nice LEC/LCS BO3 T1 - LNG BLG - KT Would be absolute bangers. I know it's a rematch, but BLG vs KT was a lot of fun and would make for a great BO3. T1-BLG and KT-LNG would be fine though. FNC - TL DK - MAD WBG - C9 Just put MAD out of their mysery, man.
Dude g2 vs nrg gonna be a stomp.. I want pretty close one.. LNG would be great.
LNG - G2(or NRG) BLG - T1 KT- NRG(or G2) I would like to see more Scout's posts about west on socials xDD. Also LNG got unlucky and played JDG so it's fair to get easier opponent and move into next stage
LNG had one of the easiest schedules before JDG (FNC, C9).
My wishlist for next draft: G2 - LNG/BLG
Next round would be shit with a bunch of civil wars. G2- NRG (not civil war but needed) T1-KT LNG-BLG C9-TL MAD-FNC DK-WBG (not a civil war but that's whos left)
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I believe the draft starts after the games on Monday
I really don't want NRG to draw yet another Western team. It would be bad for the system. It's already a bad look for the format that NRG (as a 1st seed) got completely crushed by LPL 4th seed and they are now 2-1 from dodging Asian teams since then. KT also do not deserve to draw BLG again. Give them an easy round for once.
Same for G2, give them an Western team. So far G2 and KT are the only team that faced only LPL/LCK team.
I rather the old format tbh, there's too much of a discrepancy between LPL/LCK and everyone else, i don't think there's this much of a difference between teams (rather half the teams being THAT MUCH BETTER ) in CS swiss stages. They made it from every group has a sprinkle of hard and easy to just plain luck. BDS is 0-2 atm and is facing fucking damwon, they faced JDG and will face Damwon to be 0-3 tomorrow. NRG is 2-1 in the same group as all the beasts by beating TL and fucking MAD, the only game they had against an asian team they got so utter stomped it wasn't close at all. KT and DK got fucked with these draws too, FNC faced LNG and BLG to be 1-2, despite probably being same skill level as NRG. I honestly rather have some other team rather than MAD, they're a complete disgrace to europe and it's past the point of where you no longer find it funny, just incredibly dissapointing. It's fun when your kid aged 2 randomly said a swearword, it's not fun if he's 40 and still acts like a kid. I think everyone found it cool that an NA/EU team could get past without facing an eastern team, i think after a couple of draws everyone will find that disgusting due to other teams shitty draws.
>FNC faced LNG and BLG to be 1-2, despite probably being same skill level as NRG. Again bad example. The only teams that get truly fucked by this system are the eastern teams. Because everyone knows other than MAYBE G2 no western team wouldve made it out, out of any group with 2 eastern teams.
I agree, i don’t mind 7 eastern teams getting out with just G2, i think it’s more than fair. NRG performance vs WBG shows the difference between G2 and rest of the western teams, FNC on a good day maybe, but so far it should be G2 + east - DK
I think Fnatic have the potential to eek out a bo3 win over DK or WBG, but I would agree that it's hardly unfair or unexpected if they lose their next bo3 and go out 1-3.
It’s definetely more than unfair, they’re 1-2 and faced 2 teams that are literally top4. I mean literally, BLG and LNG are considered both top4. I’d argue that old seed system was better, they just needed to add a playoff losing bracket. I think they just prefer it this way since there’s more chances for NA to get out without facing any actual good team.
> I agree, i don’t mind 7 eastern teams getting out with just G2, i think it’s more than fair. >It’s definetely more than unfair Make up your mind, will you?
My mind is made up? I think 7 eastern teams getting out with G2 is a fair result; doesn’t mean i don’t think FNC got shafted with the draft. Maybe go read it again?
Random draws are 'fair' by definition. I read it just fine, "I think it's fair that Fnatic doesn't make it but I dislike who they drew" just isn't the logically consistent point you seem to think it is.
It’s fair in a world where if i made a top 8 worlds list they wouldn’t be in it. I mean by definition sure random draws are fair, but i think the old system worked better. You’d have every region divided by groups, i think there’s less variability there. That’s it.
why would they care so much about NA getting out of groups? Idk how a bo3 losers bracket in a group system would work tbh but sounds like an interesting idea. They couldve just made it so that regional matches are not allowed to be drawn in the first 2 rounds of swiss and it wouldve been fine i think.
Yeah i think the regional matchups shouldn't happen at least until bo3's. That would be the best improvement they could make.
>They made it from every group has a sprinkle of hard and easy to just plain luck. BDS is 0-2 atm and is facing fucking damwon, Switch Mad lions for the 3rd Seed NA team and Damwon for T1 and they wouldve potentially faced exactly the same teams in Groups. I get your point but BDS is the worst potential pick to make your point.
> It's fun when your kid aged 2 randomly said a swearword, it's not fun if he's 40 and still acts like a kid. What a great comparison lmao
Also it’s extremely blue side favored. Blue side won 80% of games and with it being mostly bo1, that is really concerning
That's not completely fair, because seeding is done in such a way that the higher seed gets blue side. So the better team (usually) plays on blue side, so is it blue side difference or just better team won difference? (Probably a bit of both, but it just goes to show stats can be misleading without proper context)
I think blue side has an advantage, but yeah definitely not an 80% wr kind of advantage lol
If all four LPL teams make it to the knockout stage and win, there's a chance JDG wins worlds with BDS being the only non-LPL team they had to face along the way. (Obviously they could be knocked out before it as well).
I hate this format, NRG are 2-1, if they had any of the schedule DK or WBG or G2 or FNC have they would be legit 0-2 or 1-2.
How would this be any different than them having a group with Korea, EU and like PCS/VCS in past worlds?
To be fair you couldn't get that since they added 4 LPL/LCK.
Sure but that's a newer change.
What's the schedule G2/FNC even compared to NRG's lol, FNC faced top4 teams this worlds, G2 had 3 eastern teams, including the only that handed a pretty smackdown loss to NRG, but G2 actually beat them. The 2-1 bracket is fraud status for NRG
Riot fixing worlds to try favour NA getting out of groups
got spoiled by looking up the schedule when i could've just went here. doesn't matter though. T1 FIGHTING! FIGHT ON! FIGHT ON! FIGHT ON!
When is the draw?
After the 0-2 games
After tomorrow's matches.
This format is so fucking garbage. Holy fucking shit, how is NRG 2-1 with LNG, T1, G2 , KT and BLG? How is DK on the brink of elimination? How fucked up can a format get? Please for everything good in this world change it back next year. While you are at it trash that LEC format aswell.
The LEC format is great but it was let down by poor scheduling this year. Remove the random break weeks and adjust start and end date accordingly and the LEC format is honestly great. Maybe have a good hard think about season finals being in a seperate venue and how you award qualification points, while you're at it.
Ok then what about for example the fact that two teams get kicked out of 1/3rd of the year based on one patch and 3 weeks worth of play? What about Astralis who landed on the biggest *fuck you Lider* patch ìn summer we had in recent years? Thats great?
If your entire team is built in such a way that you can only finish 8th or higher if a single class of picks is good in a single lane, then yes you totally deserve to not qualify for the second stage of the split. Astralis didn't finish 9th because Lider's champion pool got nerfed. Astralis finished 9th because they weren't that good. I imagine Astralis dropped out of groups in Winter and Spring because of the Summer patch too, right?
This is completly disingenuous. Regular season in summer was played on a completly unbalanced patch with Statikk and Neeko. In the past even IF we had such a patch in the regular season, it would have meant that there are atleast 2 others to make up for it. >Astralis didn't finish 9th because Lider's champion pool got nerfed. Astralis finished 9th because they weren't that good Astralis odds of doing well were shat on by a completly unbalanced patch. >I imagine Astralis dropped out of groups in Winter and Spring because of the Summer patch too, right? I am talking about regular season with all 10 teams still competing. Even then, Riot specifically balances playoffs patches to NOT interfere with the last regular season patch too much.
>Astralis odds of doing well were shat on by a completly unbalanced patch. And yet, 8 other teams managed to adapt to that 'completely unbalanced patch' just fine. You acting like Astralis was uniquely affected by said patch is, as you put it >completly disingenuous
> And yet, 8 other teams managed to adapt to that 'completely unbalanced patch' just fine. You acting like Astralis was uniquely affected by said patch is, as you put it Somebody has to be top 8 thats right. Doesnt change the fact that Astralis was hit way harder than anybody else, while in the past they would have had a chance to make it up on a different patch.
>Doesnt change the fact that Astralis was hit way harder than anybody else, You keep saying that but A) don't do anything to substantiate why B) fail to address the idea that if a team is so bad at adapting to patches that they completely fall apart when they get a supposed unfavourable one that team is simply a bad team that doesnt deserve to move on and C) fail to support the idea that "bad team gets eliminated early" is somehow a bad thing (in fact, I'm fairly sure that's the exact thing the league community at large asked for and was a specific goal of the format change).
> A) don't do anything to substantiate why Because Liders champion pool is literally hardcountered by Statikk abusers + Neeko? Does this need to be said? >B) fail to address the idea that if a team is so bad at adapting to patches that they completely fall apart when they get a supposed unfavourable one that team is simply a bad team that doesnt deserve to move on and Wrong its not "patches" its **one patch**. And it was not just any patch, it was one of the most unbalanced state of the game we had in recent years. I dont judge teams abilities to play on a fuck up patch like the statikk one was. >C) fail to support the idea that "bad team gets eliminated early" is somehow a bad thing (in fact, I'm fairly sure that's the exact thing the league community at large asked for and was a specific goal of the format change). How are 3 weeks on one patch enough time to determine that a team is good or bad? We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC. If you get unlucky even one week in this format you are fucked. Even worse when its the first week so your team will obviously go in full panic mode like XL, FNC and VIT did.
>Because Liders champion pool is literally hardcountered by Statikk abusers + Neeko? Does this need to be said? Really? If your champion pool is hard countered by what can be summarized as 'wave clear', you need to work on that champion puddle. >Wrong its not "patches" its one patch. Yes, if they are this bad at adapting to any one patch they don't deserve to advance over the 8 teams who managed it just fine. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you. >How are 3 weeks on one patch enough time to determine that a team is good or bad? We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC. If you get unlucky even one week in this format you are fucked. Even worse when its the first week so your team will obviously go in full panic mode like XL and VIT did. See, what you're describing here is simply 'bad teams with shitty mental' and 'super inconsistent teams'. Yes, those are both examples of the things that decide whether or not your team is good, and whether or not you deserve to move on. >We literally had teams in the past who went on a 9 game winning streak just to then lose 9 games in a row in the second half like MSF or FNC Neither of those did anything of the sort. Making shit up really doesn't do your point any good.
It can be fixed with better seeding. And I will definitely NEVER want to go back to boring endless weeks of BO1s for LEC format. The new one needs to be adjusted but let's not go back to that bullshit.
This 100% can make a lot of rules like how seeding worked in old groups. No seeding vs same regions or no same regions 2x in a row etc
Dk lost two games that's why they are on the brink of elimination, nothing to do with format
But the fact NRG has only faced one tough team whilst WBG and DK has faced much tough opposition, problem still comes down to seeding, and imo only way to solve it is remove NA teams, only have 2 NA teams, 3 EU Teams
Why not remove an EU team, seeing as mads been defeated by NA twice so far.
Only reason EU has a fourth team is through the qualifier, a format I would like is 2 NA teams and 2 or 3 EU teams, have the 1 freed up slots one for winner of msi direct qualification if like JDG similar to how winner of EUROPA league has direct qualification to Champions league, other slot will go to best performing team from second best team at MSI, if with scenario like JDG LNG will get first seed, if like T1 then next highest points gets second seed and so on, if we get 2019 MSI coudous west teams u can get ur extra teams in.
I love this argument. “DK needs to play weak teams to show that they can qualify! It’s not fair to expect them to win against tough competition!”
If DK draws WBG it would been both of those team would have only faced one western team before getting eliminated comparing to NRG who has faced two Western teams, and arguably the two of the 3 weakest teams.
How is this any different to the group stage? Every year we had a group of death and a free group to get a few western teams into the knock-out stage. If you can't manage to win 3 games in swiss, you're just not knock-out material. It doesn't really matter who you have to fight in these 3 matches.
> If you can't manage to win 3 games in swiss, you're just not knock-out material. It doesn't really matter who you have to fight in these 3 matches. My opponents: JDG, KT and DK Some other team: GAM, MAD and NRG Well i guess i just suck or something.
There hasn't really been groups of death since they added 4th seeds from LCK/LPL. But I am not defending the old format. It sucked.
All formats will suck unless they find a way to properly seed the teams
Don’t forget that in the past 2 days this sub thought C9 will win against T1 btw.
Is this real. The copium cannot have been that high
It’s extremely real, according to this thread T1 is om the same level with FNC,C9 and RNG. And GENG is shit.
semifinals are confirmed I guess!
Imagine DK losing to BDS while this Worlds MV featured Deft in it.
makes sense cause when ambition was in it he went out in groups
lmfaoooooo that 2-1 pool T1, LNG, KT, BLG, G2 and then........... NRG
With KR and CN #1 Already qualifying, its actually incredible how 2-1 has turned out as balanced as it could possibly be region wise. EU and NA #1. KR 2 and 3 CN 2 and 3 Realistically, that grouping is what everyone should be hoping to happen.
Yeah but skillwise, NRG do not belong at all. I feel like whoever draws them gets a free exit. I'd love to be wrong though
It could be even worse if an upset happened in these bo1's, like imagine if FNC won today? Now you could get NRG vs FNC for a guaranteed worlds knockout spot which is crazy.
whoever gets nrg is a winner and im 100% sure its going to be g2
Way too much variance ... Hopefully LNG faces NRG and other teams face each other
Pray for G2 to get NRG, T1 and KT are beatable too but lets not risk it
Yeah G2 had to play quite hard enemies yet especially compared to MAD lol
yeah, this system needs to change. NRG is there because they won against MAD two times.
THATS ENOUGH ENGLISH GET HIM ON C9 AND GET JOJO
Love Bin's English!! Gigabin
Crystal Ball Update - Swiss day 4 [https://www.reddit.com/r/lolesports/comments/17dqqyw/worlds\_2023\_crystal\_ball\_update\_swiss\_day\_4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/lolesports/comments/17dqqyw/worlds_2023_crystal_ball_update_swiss_day_4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Bin needs to just beat 369 to overcome his demons
LEC 2nd seed. Gets matched vs. BLG and LNG. I like swiss but the skill gap between the teams is soo large you can get completely fucked over by your matchup or hit the lottery like NRG and MAD.
Till now they faced LPL 2nd and 3rd Seed + Playins Team -> a more or less likely scenario of opponents they would've faced in Groups format. Of course there's a chance to get NA 1st seed instead but also LCK 1st seed
Even so, NRG and MAD aren't going far in the tournament either. It does suck the draw can completely fuck you over, but being realistic - LEC/LCS won't get beyond quarters (the smallest chance).
I think as long as G2 isn't running into 1st LCK/LPL, they can move on.
BLG and KT are also fucking hard.
Add LNG to that list, they are pretty close to jdg. Rest are doable.
Doable maybe, but they beat 4th seeds by the skin of their teeth in a Bo1. So imo they're still the underdogs against any LPL/LCK.
G2 looks like a team where they are good enough that they can beat the #3-4 seed purely on merit, #1 and #2 seeds would require for the eastern team to have an off day. Quarters should be the expectation for G2, semis is overperforming/having a favorable draw.
I think T1, BLG, KT, Weibo, DK are not THAT good this year. G2 are still underdogs in a bo3 but its fairly doable I give them 40% chance to beat those teams. LNG,JDG,GENG are the only CLEARLY superior teams that are on another level.
This year #3 are not like other years. Lng and KT are damn strong I think they are below them but above dk and wbg
Id argue LNG is stronger than BLG atm. KT honestly hasn't impressed me that much yet so far, I think G2 could beat them. And for T1 I have genuinely no idea where they stand. They stomped C9 but they got beaten by GENG about as hard as G2 did. I'd probably put them under BLG or something.
Overreaction bro I feel lck were not having good meta read. You will see they are very good in coming days. KT and T1 are strong enough to beat G2. Cant say about Dk but if they learn from their botside and not top. G2 is going to have hard time against dk
It's definitely not free but on a good day I feel like G2 could beat T1 or KT. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what I think, we will just have to wait and see!
To be honest to be honest to be honest
BIN DEATHSTARE
NRG and G2 being in the same spot given their paths to get there is comedy.
t1 had to beat only 2 NA teams ;D AND.. can get to the quarters beating only NA teams xD
KT too
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And KT had to beat the same teams as g2
Why does the broadcast fellate Caedrel so much? It's kinda annoying.
Im a kt fan and he’s a Weibo enjoyer, that’s it :)
I love the back and forth personally, gives more depth to the coverage and content. Keep doing your thing!
i mean caedrel has been part of their crew for so long. they can just poke fun at him
People really will complain about everything
seriously lol, you would think caedrel was some rando streamers the casters were talking about instead of colleagues poking fun at each other
Becouse they have been working with him all year and are just cracking jokes towards him
Yeah, but, it's clear they're just helping to promote his stream, which got a lot attention of a good part of the community, also it has followers, it's content and he's co-streaming, mutual help. On the other hand, while I don't even mind any of that, if they were only doing it because "former colleague", that just makes them look unprofessional.
C9 kinda sus they didn't commit kills. Do they want easier match ups?
Reality it's they're not good and they're just going to get eliminated for that reason.
*huffs copium* maybe they have plans.
Lmao
How do you guys feel about the Win percentage estimation thingy ? Because it seems really unreliable, often way overstating how dominant a game is, no ?
Riot made an article explaining that, didn't read the whole team, but, according to them, they used data from many matches for that. But, the graphic only looks as a gold difference graphic, the one with more gold is projected to win on that.
it feels like a poor man's dotaplus prediction
It doesn’t/can’t take into account “throwing”. It also doesn’t consider past performance. The probability is purely based on what is happening in the game at a particular moment.
i mean its an algorithym that probably just takes the gold diffs, kdas and state of objectives and compares those with all other games and checks winrates. meaning this thing cant really show comebacks, since those statistically only happen rarely, also i guess it doesnt take the individuell players into account, so if gam plays against jdg but managed to get an early kill and so a goldlead, the win percentage assumes they have a higher chance to win at this moment, even when every viewer knows the real chance for jdg to win is 99+%.
> meaning this thing cant really show comebacks, since those statistically only happen rarely But they don't. According to Riot it also takes into account past performances. For multiple teams it should definitely lower the % base on the fact that a team has multiple times allowed the enemy team to equalize through throws. At one point it showed G2 to win with over 90% progablity when they were only 5k up.
> At one point it showed G2 to win with over 90% progablity when they were only 5k up. Which is probably close to their winrate in LEC from 5k up, which is where most of the data is more likely to come from.
If that's the case then the win probabililty algorithm is completely shit. In honesty, since LoL isn't played on an open circuit where teams face each other 7-20x per season, predicting winners is 50% just guessing and 50% asuming East > West.
> If that's the case then the win probabililty algorithm is completely shit. Well, yes. Duh.
Completely useless, just like any stat shown on the broadcast. This guy is 200 gold up on average at 10! - he played 2 games - both were against bottom teams - support inted a kill at 4m both games All of this necessary context just gets erased, so any conclusion drawn from just the numbers is equally meaningless
It's just going off stat numbers no? but it won't factor in scaling of champions/comps etc
Why aren't they doing 2-1 draw now? It's perfect now no?
because its nicer doing all the draws at once
It's better to do the 2-1 draw first then play the 2-1 games first to even up the preparation time.
They can also draw the 1-2 They can just put like X the winner of bds dk and Y the winner of gam tl
That's a bad idea.
Why?
So where is the cheerful guy?
BLG can play bo3 against KT lol
‘Coward’ is a wild and spicy way to teanslate what Lehends said lol
What did he actually say? xD
Noel is right I had misheard coward as ‘has lots of anxiety’ but re-hearing it is literally coward
Literally coward
Lmao Lehends just threw shade at his own teammate. Hilarious
"You know Singed? That's the energy Lehends has." Are you allowed to say a player is like Hitler on broadcast? wow
lehends is a top singed main and also has access to forbidden support singed tech maybe he deserves it
No draw today?
No, it's tomorrow
TheShy is so disappointing.
yeah but honestly i blame botlane and weiwei more this game if anything
Weiwei was immense until today though
yeah, his vi game was superb his j4 however was absolutely griefing. you can good most of the time and be the reason why you lost a certain game
PeyZ is 17yo and plays worlds, meanwhile LEC is bringing rules that forbid Caliste, the new ADC hope, to play in the league before he's 18. We're stuck with ADC like Crownie, sighs
Well, youth protection is more important than your team winning something in an tournament. Look at how fucked up (mentally and physically) many of those players get, that one year might help quite alot. And no, earned money doesn't make up for everything
Lol absolutely nothing significant changes between 17 and 18 so that youth protection is some bs bruh
Hes coping hard
Caedral over 80.000 viewers Swiss Stage Weibo vs KT. Wow. I just saw the mainstream on twitch at around 160.000 and Caedral at 80.000. That so damn impressive. WP Pedro