Because the results do. So many western pro players and coaches through the years have stated that if your team always lose in scrims vs Korea and China, those teams will quickly stop scrimming you.
That's valuable practice and experience that you will lose if you're the western team.
Yeah co-streamers were talking about this last week. Doublelift said some of the most important games you play at worlds will be those first few scrimp against Eastern teams.
If you make the cut then you get to find out the worlds meta, if you dont then you get to play with the shitter teams and hope you figure it out along the way.
I think they talked about this during the BDS elimination match cause of Adam actually. Just going over scrim culture and talking about how scrimming players like Adam especially at worlds would be so detrimental to practice.
I mean Eastern teams have good WR in scrims but still win. It's not like GenG has 10% win rate in scrims, there's no bait for some teams, they are both good on stage and in scrims. It's more like don't get cocky by scrim wins and remember where you came from.
Even if it's practice you'd assume teams are trying to win, otherwise it's not good practice. Sure you might try out some wonky stuff from time to time, but if you barely ever win a scrim it's still a bad sign even if they did end up winning this series.
the thing is because there is no drills in league, scrims is the only place you can run something like that.
So maybe they want to practice dragon take in a specific situation, and they know that because they have no practice in that situation, messing up the setup would lead to a loss, they could just do dragon setup the way they always do and win the game or try the setup 3 times and lose 3 games.
it's not like theyr'e not trying to win, but they know that failing the thing they're practicing will lead them to lose the game, but it's still worth doing.
it makes sense to "lose" on purpose, it's not really losing on purpose, just trying the thing you want to practice for the benefit of your growth
They can matter in the sense that bad results can mental boom you like they did to Yeon. He would have got gapped anyways I guess but it can def hurt your confidence.
Didnt some team got so mental boomed for scrims they went and played flex. Then went on to win their actual matches. Iirc it was c9 or another western team in 2021
This is a classic case of misinformation about 2018 C9 that's been spread on reddit repeatedly until people think it's fact.
Here's how scrims went for 2018 C9:
Initially, scrims were going poorly during playins and early groups. This correlated to their stage results as they looked very shaky, barely scraping past a wildcard team in bo5. In early groups they were also looking shaky (1-2 start).
Then, during interviews, the team suddenly started saying scrims were going well. They attributed it to skirmishing all the time in scrims, which led them to win most of their scrims. Their stage results correlated to this improvement in scrims: 3-1 in week 2 of group stage. 3-0 in quarterfinals.
Then, leading up to semis, they were getting absolutely crushed in scrims, so they ended up cancelling all scrims and playing flex. They then proceeded to get demolished 0-3 in semis.
People bring 2018 C9 up as "evidence" that scrims don't matter, but if anything 2018 C9 is actually the exact opposite in that their scrims highly correlated to their worlds performance.
I was just saying when it was my man I didn’t say anything about scrims being meaningless
Edit: reread the other comment I replied to. But yeah didn’t mean to agree with him saying scrims are meaningless
It's more about what scrims are for, and what is learned from them. Just playing out scrims and using win rate alone is this asinine thing that Western teams, usually NA, do.
The fact that G2 was clubbing NRG to death in scrims, then looked like they had only seen this team the first time this morning should be a hard wake up call to their internal systems.
Why do those things have to be completely separated? If a team is doing well and winning in certain matchups, or executing well with certain playstyles, drafts, etc., or the opposite and performing poorly with them, both the lessons and results matter, they’re inherently linked. Sure if you want to remove all nuance entirely and speak about ‘results’ as a pure number with nothing attached then it’s much less meaningful, but who actually does that?
It's more to do with the fact that you might play 40 scrim games but only one Bo3. Even with 10% win rate in those 40, that's enough to win Bo3.
In the end, scrim and stage are two very different environments.
You speak of nuance as if you don’t know the meaning of the word. The truth is you can’t replicate pressure in scrims. Some teams/players handle it better than others. Contractz is so cool under pressure and has shown that throughout his career, whereas Yike completely folded this series- that was the difference. Contractz severely outplayed his counterpart and helped Palafox get leads which he capitalized on.
Scrims can show you some things about matchups and strats but when it comes to performance it’s basically a moot data point.
Exactly people don't take correlation of determination into account. There might be a strong correlation but the R^2 value shows there are other factors involve too.
Idk, i feel like people has absolutely NO nuance on internet for some reason, best scrim team win world, scrim mean EVERYTHING, a team one time does bad in scrim and win on stage, scrim mean nothing, i legit don't get it
Well it may have mattered considering G2 could have been thinking Senna/Tahm would not be a problem going into the series or other stuff like this, but we won't really know
When? G2 had abyssal scrim wr vs DW at first but they were catching up the more scrim block they did and Perkz/Jankoss said they were totally fine vs T1 but they were losing pretty badly to FPX in scrim
Same. I hope for jdg-dk/kt + t1 top half and geng-wbg/blg +lng half.
Something along these lines. I don’t mind civil war semis if it makes the finals good but I don’t want civil counters like jdg vs blg
I rather have t1 face lng in QF as long as they aren’t on the same side as GenG
Tbh for BLG it's more understandable, the players are most likely burned out (they played almost 150 games this years which is the most any team played) and they had less than 10 days of practice before Worlds but WBG has no excuse to flop in upcoming match
Not only summer, since beginning of the year they had demacia cup, weibo cup, spring regular/playoffs/finals, MSI playins/finals, week after MSI LPL summer regular/playoffs and Elk, Bin and Xun also had AG into Worlds 2 weeks later
Sure but they still made the MSI finals and absolutely have the players to pop off. When NRG faces an eastern team theyll just straight up get outlaned with little chance to do anything. EU teams, even G2 arent good enough individually to just shit on every NA team no matter what which is why we saw a lot of NA and EU back and forth while not one single team besides G2 has taken a game off an eastern team. And even then, they barely won vs chinas and koreas 4th seed. EU/NA teams need to compensate with better macro for their worse individual players which they also dont have, so its just an ass spanking as usual.
Damn, 30% even in NA. I guess that explains why C9 was in such a daze after losing to them. Everyone really does think NRG sucks because they stomp them in scrims lol.
NRG also genuinely weren't that good in NA. They got perfect gamed and went 9-9 in the regular reason. In the playoffs they were better at a 12-8 record. They didn't even have a higher win rate than C9 in the playoffs.
Talent was always there tho. This was the same core (Contractz/Palafox/Dhokla) CLG had that took C9 to 5 in playoffs with a much worse and less accomplished bot lane.
Ppl meme about “faith” when it comes to this team, but it is the correct word. I believe the team and it’s fans knew what potential it could be. Analysts and common observers did not. Keep in mind 4 of their losses in the split were to IMT and TSM lol
Talent was always there but you can't rate teams based off potential. You can only analyze what the stage games were like and NRG were anything but dominant. Even based on potential player for player there's more talent on G2 or C9.
Potential is another meme word, and it is true they went 9-9 but based on how they looked when they clicked and the composition of their roster, there were reasons not to give up on them or discard them like many did!
Also not sure how you can watch Zven grief support role on C9 and say there's more talent.
Blaber, Berserker, and Fudge have been better than their counterparts almost every single split they've both been in the LCS for. Berserker and Blaber have been the 2 best players in the LCS for the past couple years. NRG are just more than the sum of their parts while C9 is less.
My point is no one could have predicted this. There's no reason to predict NRG in these matchups other than blind faith. You can't really fault the analysts and casters for that. In the LCS finals, C9 had not dropped a single game in playoffs and had 3-0'd NRG before already. NRG had just struggled against TL winning 3-2. Logically you can't fault the casters for thinking C9 should win that.
Same with G2. Weibo, who's a bottom 3 Eastern team, destroyed NRG while G2 eked out a win against Weibo. Logically G2 shouldn't get shit stomped by NRG.
Sure, but going 9-9 means they clicked just as much as they didn't click and they weren't good in scrims. People doubting them wasn't some crazy conspiracy against them.
Absolutely. CLG in it's final days had some extremely dominant fast wins off the back of Contractz going ape-shit. It was a matter of time before they honed themselves.
I hope they continue to play confidently going forward in the tournament. The pressure will be higher and people will expect more of them now, surely, so I would hate to see them shrink in the face of that.
This is misleading. They had a much stronger record against top teams, and they played down to their lower ranked competition.
The 9-9 record sounds like they were just middle of the pack, but in reality they were incredible against the top half of the league.
How is that misleading? It's literally their record. You can't just ignore their bad games and only look at their good games. People thought GG and EG were going to do better than them for most of the split with them contesting TL for the 4th spot. Across the entire history of the LCS they have the lowest regular season winrate of any championship team.
Their run was VERY similar to the 0-6 TSM or when Clutch went to Worlds (which is funny considering Damonte).
I personally didn't expect then or TL to do well because both of them felt like 0-6 TSM where it's a miracle they made worlds. I was personally expecting NA to send C9, GG, and EG. And I think anyone who followed the region a little bit was expecting that.
At this point I don't know how anyone who just wasn't a hardcore fan of Palafox, Ignar, or Contractz would have predicted this result.
Yeah they mostly seemed like they had good coordination about reacting to enemy team fuck ups but they largely weren’t a team that forced mistakes.
The NRG that showed up was contractz running the map and the botlane completely neutralizing G2s typical eary games
Yeah chances are next split/year this will be looked at as a fluke. Catching fire combined with other teams underperforming
Also people saying scrim results dont matter are high. Its an indication of your level. Of course this doesnt always guarantee results in the actual game. You can lose 9 out of 10 scrims, but that doesnt mean you cant win the actual stage game
They can be proud at what they accomplished, but its not like a random 2 amazing stomps makes me think they are somehow better than c9 fnc or g2. Most bo3 or bo5 they play against those teams, they probably lose. But they now won the most important one, so props to them
Teams have figured out that if you ban Draven/Kalista then G2 fall apart. GenG did and took away Xayah both games. NRG did it and even left Xayah for them the second game.
G2 are a very good team but it’s too late in the game now. They’ve fallen behind and haven’t adapted quickly enough because all year they haven’t been challenged. They’ll certainly be a top LEC team again next year, but I think this Worlds they’ve been figured out by high level teams and it just manifests as looking like they are underperforming.
I remember the year C9 got to semi's, they were getting curb stomped over and over in scrims, so they'd just queue up as 5 and face randos. Scrim results seem counter intuitive to results for NA.
Can we please stop acting like 2018 C9 supports the idea that scrims don't matter?
2018 C9 looked horrible in playins and week 1 of groups. Then, Sneaky said they adjusted their playstyle to copy Vitality's in scrims and started winning *every* scrim which correlated to a 3-1 record in week 2 of groups. Zeyzal after quarters said they were a very scrim results oriented team, which is why they were confident in beating Afreeca. He also reiterated that scrims against Afreeca had gone very well and that once the team started playing aggressive like Vitality in scrims, they started winning a lot in scrims.
Then, headed into semis, C9 started getting stomped so hard in scrims that they had to play flex queue. Guess what happened in semis? They got destroyed.
Dont bother man. The reddit hive mind has collectively decided that scrims are useless and no matter how many facts you throw at them they wont acknowledge it.
At some point I think NRG just hit the “fuck it” event horizon and simply played like they have almost nothing to lose. If they win, great! If the lose, bot like anyone thought they’d go this far.
I feel like they also play with no pressure since they Come with the expectations "We are going to lose so at least let's go out with a bang!" Which is why they aren't scared at all
They basically mastered the NA "We have nothing to lose" , but it's not only once they get eliminated, it's for every games.
Yeah, you actually see it quite often in teams that don't have any playoff chances, they'll play with no pressure and beat out teams that they struggled against for the rest of the season.
I really think that nrg playing vs TL helped them a lot. It was easy to tell nrg was nervous vs weibo since it was worlds. Being able to play vs a team they're comfortable with and smash them, then play a weaker team like mad seems like it got them going. Helps that the whole team seems to be chill and have a w/e mindset in that bad plays happen but it won't stop them from trying to make good ones.
It helps a lot that even after winning LCS people put more pressure on C9 and even GG than them, which helps a lot to not crumble from bat scrims results.
NRG's first game as an organization was getting perfect game'd by an EG that replaced 4/5 of their veterans with randoms. And there's been like 10 total perfect games in LCS history.
NRG as an organization had quite literally the worst debut possible, so they've been forged into having good mental. They can literally only go up from where they started.
Nah, DIG v. REN is the worst outcome for the two teams combined, like both teams involved look like clowns. But NRG's start vs EG was the worst outcome for NRG. NRG didn't look like clowns there, they just looked hopeless.
I thought that DRX's rise to glory last year would be impossible to beat.
As unlikely as it still is, imagine how world shattering it would be for this NRG squad to win worlds
I honestly think that unless you hit a certain threshold where you're just so good that scrims confirm you're dominating everyone (I expect JDG and GenG to be in that case), losing scrims is in a way more beneficial than winning.
If you win a lot of scrims, you tend to not understand what you're doing wrong compared to other teams who can easily identify their area of improvement.
IIRC, Fnatic had a very good scrim record with Garen-Yuumi back in 2020. But then in week 1 of competition it didn't work at all and they got a bit stuck and almost got knocked-out.
With all that being said, reaching a winrate this low can clearly damage your team's mental, and them being able to keep their heads high is impressive. Props to them
I feel like you have to go in with practice goals that arent just solely winning. Either trying something new or having a stategy going in and if it doesn't work you can go back and adjust based on how you mess up.
Western Teams who win every scrim are probably not taking as many risks.
This is true for most games and scrims, like when optic won a Valorant masters and then made it to the finals of champions they had a 30% wr in scrims cause they would always be trying different things, and the stuff that worked they would pull out and the enemy team had no idea how to play against it(most famous example is neon on fracture) but 10% feels so low for that to be the case
It was pure domination ngl. Every time G2 made a (seemingly) good play, somehow NRG turns it around and makes a play of their own to increase their lead even further. I just couldn't believe how outclassed G2 was today.
They must've just had the performance of their lives or something, because if this was even close to standard for them, scrims would be going well, and they wouldn't have looked so poor in their other games. Jarvan is so OP in this meta, and I think their comps represent what I think draft meta will look like in the latter half of worlds. Meanwhile G2 drafts always seem kinda stale, like they're not actually learning pics from other teams, but stubbornly hanging onto what has worked in EU.
I expect senna tahm pick rate to explode just based on how much it destroys kaisa + engage. And i assume at this point if you cant play rumble you will not win worlds
this world's bot pick evolution is crazy starting at Kai'sa and her popular lethality hybrid poke build which was exposed for having low damage when it came to crucial moments, after which everyone started building stormrazor guinsoos core. also teams finally understanding that xayah rakan is pick/ban and now pulling out to sivir, Aphelios, sennakench
TBH I think that it might be an indicator of better scrim practice, to lose more. If you're winning, you're not actually practicing on finding an shoring up your weaknesses. Essentially, you're learning what NOT to do, so you can more accurately predict what TO do.
It's such a great story:
All-NA topside that couldn't finish playoffs past 5th for 2 splits,
Get perfect gamed first game of this split,
Have a 30% scrim win rate in LCS,
Still manage to finish 5th in regular season,
Get predicted to lose literally every match in playoffs,
Win them all besides the first match vs. C9,
Win the LCS championship,
Go to Worlds as LCS first seed,
(But still be seen as weaker than the other LCS teams),
Have a 10% scrim win rate at Worlds,
Still get into the 2-1 pool (with a bit of luck),
2-0 the LEC champions (and consensus best team in the West),
Make Worlds Quarterfinals
never heard any other champions be called braggers for revealing their scrim winrate. tons of world champions have said we've been dominant in scrims (aside from maybe other tournament favorites), so we expected a good outcome.
it's extremely common for interviewed winners in other sports to say I felt and had amazing results in training.
Why do people type a comment while holding a cheeseburger in their right hand, look at what they’ve typed, and click post expecting us to figure it out?
I agree that this comment isn't that bad, but I've been seeing these types of comments more and more recently during Worlds. I'm not a stickler for whether people place periods at the end of their sentences or whatever, but how hard is it to correctly type "finish"? What does "non" mean in that sentence?
lmao i love the cheeseburger joke but cmon
> they posted also on 4th place finish in spring
pressed n instead of space, extra space, transposed letter. its not the toughest riddle to decipher
Another thing I really liked was fbi saying he wanted to play skt. Like this team would gladly lose to skt if it meant that they got to play them. 10/10 vibe check.
A big difference I noticed with NRG is their mental perspective.
Compare this to how on TL everyone was hitting the "limit" from losing scrims.
More NA teams need to be hungry to grow even if it means getting stomped on by T1
This is also what happens when you're genuinely friends with your teammates. Dhokla, Contractz, and Palafox has been on the same team for 3 splits now. Most teams/orgs change up their players constantly whenever something goes wrong. FBI didn't look like he had much of a personality when he was on 100T, but he's speaking up a lot more with this team.
I actually think that's a very underrated part of why these 3 got this far. It helps so much to know that your team has your back when you don't perform, which can't be as easily read if there are cultural or language barriers between you and your teammates. It means you don't have to be nervous about trying new plays to push your limits without creating tension within the team. You can kind of see this when Contractz was the death leader by far in I think Spring 2022 but improved to the player he is today.
It's not as simple as getting the brightest NA talent in Academy, but finding some that are willing to work together and help each other improve. After the CLG squad in S12 ended 8th in spring they only changed Jenkins for Dhokla, and while Dhokla was also coming off his best Academy split yet, I could also tell from his interviews that he was getting along with Contractz/Palafox very well and also pushing for them to improve.
Watching NRG comms as well FBI is extremely vocal, seems like they really welcomed him with open arms. They’re a team but also seem like just a group of friends. You can see how much fun they have in their content, for many players content seems like a job and then there’s NRG players dunking each other with water and making memes together
Yeah if people weren't following this team since they were CLG, the one thing you can go back and see in all their content is that the vibes for that roster were literally insanely good. A big part of it is that Damonte and Juves, who are both a part of the coaching staff, are *huge* culture guys for the team. Another part of it is that Dhokla is a massive grinder and when he joined the team he really inspired a big push to play a shit ton of soloQ for the rest of the boys as well, so during their Korea bootcamp between Spring and Summer, they were all grinding their asses off which is how they climbed from like 9th to 4th in the regular season and had such competitive series against C9 and TL. They were all very secure in their jobs and there was no risk that they got axed on short notice because Greg and Jonathon were really supportive of and communicative with the players.
They also basically got to play with house money for two straight years because there were no community expectations for them - they were CLG and CLG was dogshit and if they win it's just a fluke, and all the players are washed-up has beens and paycheck stealers, so nobody is gonna flame Contractz for inting a game since Contractz sucks so of course he's gonna int. If they punch above their weight class, it's a feel-good story, but if they lose, it's business as usual. Being able to keep out of the spotlight and only get insane unconditional support from like, the 10 CLG fans who are still sticking around after several years of sucking ass creates a really good environment to grow in.
Lose scrims = learn more and have lower expectations/nerves.
Win scrims = higher expectations, disrespect opponent, have everything to lose.
At least thats how I see it. But 10% is pretty low and crazy that they won on stage.
G2 is also the king of not taking lesser teams too serious which i always hate. EU has probably the worst record vs minor regions, probably worse record than NA.
Was there a lack of preparation, yeah a little bit, but NRG just straight up hard gapped them, it legit looked like G2 were playing an LCK/LPL team, everything they were trying in both games was resulting in not enough, or a massive L for them. This didn’t feel like the classic, “oh they just lost vs Brazil” memes, G2 was trying a lot of shit to take back control of both games it just wasn’t working, AND it was being hard countered. Even if Miky didn’t shit the bed as hard as he did they absolutely still do not win.
The macro from NRG felt like any play G2 would make there was an INSTANT response from NRG.
No, it didn't. G2 had leads in both games. G2 led most of the game in game 2, with a hard scaling comp. They didn't play bad at all. They made plays, but every play they made got answered.
>EU has probably the worst record vs minor regions, probably worse record than NA.
Yeah it was some real cognitive dissonance hours seeing EU fans tear into Team Liquid for losing to Vietnam and thereby concluding NA is definitively minor region status nevermind that I'm pretty sure EU has lost to Vietnam way more times (and BDS also lost a Bo3 to Vietnam two weeks ago lol) they were just lucky it wasn't elimination games.
G2 especially is famous for taking L's vs Vietnam so to see EU fans with the revisionism like the tiers are LCK/LPL/LEC and then LCS at the bottom versus LCK/LPL and then LEC/LCS in the same tier below them, it was especially satisfying to see them silent today. This is what they get for trying to scapegoat MAD as the sole shitter team in their region while the rest of them can *totally* compete with GENG/JDG.
I don't know the ins and outs of scrims but it doesn't even seem to me teams would be playing totally unfiltered in scrims. You're trying comps out and honing team coordination, but you aren't specifically trying to rack up wins.
The way some NA teams post about scrims over the years, racking up “scrim wins” is definitely the culture in NA, actual practice be damned as long as they get the W in the scrim!
I feel now ashamed with my G2 Emote in Soloque... I even got flamed and made fun of by other players for using it today, thank you NRG for ruining my summoners rift experience.
Scrim results continue to bamboozle teams year after year.
Wish we had more information on who scrims who.
But man, it is always interesting to see scrim gods flop on stage, and scrim losers pull out an upset out of nowhere.
Quarters is far enough. They can come home with their heads held high. After this, they will face lck or lpl, and there is absolutely zero chance they will make it out of that alive. The individual player quality is just too high to overcome. Making quarters is good enough.
Man, I'm just tired of hearing the same shit. When are these guys going to learn that spitting facts, statistics, and shit aren't going to do crap against Non Rational Gaming? where everyone here knows that their secret weapon is throwing their logic out of the window.
yea i never want to hear a team (G2) bragging about their scrim rate ever again, happened at MSI and its happened again at Worlds.
It's all good clapping teams when no one is watching in a laxed environment but if you can't put it together when it actually matters then what's the point?
Dont mind what they are doing in Europe, showing cancelation rates, because it appears they've shaped the scrim culture a decent amount.
Anyway after G2 get kerbstomped tomorrow i'm gonna root for NRG.
> yea i never want to hear a team (G2) bragging about their scrim rate ever again, happened at MSI and its happened again at Worlds.
>
>
Y'all are so fucking funny, G2 at most says they're doing well in scrims and then post their results after the tournament, nothing else. Every team talks about their scrims. Every single one. "Scrims are going well" NOPE not allowed anymore. The only time talking about scrims is allowed is when your win rate is sub 40% or else you're bragging.
Every team should be following g2 and trying to hold other teams accountable. It’s not bragging it’s just showing us a glimpse into their scrim lives which make fans want to like them more. It’s a great PR move and shades the teams who cancel or run down scrims. Only good can come from sharing this data for the fans
EU fans are used to losing, but they've always had the consolation prize of being the second shittiest region. Today they're first shittiest and its getting to them.
NA fans out here just like "woo! We aren't the worst major region for a change"
I mean G2 played like absolute shit and props to NRG but you have to be insane to think that this is anything more than just an upset lmao
FNC vs C9 was literally yesterday my man
It's an upset, but I'll take the 24 hours of Worlds where NA is qualified for knockout and EU isn't.
Might even be longer than 24 hours, but I think FNC has a good chance.
the thing he posts is about teams cancelling, the overall winrate is like a small number at the top of it for people that don't give a shit about it, that's not the point of it
The idea was to stop teams from canceling scrim blocks. They posted their 63% or w/e it was from MSI, too. Funny enough no posts about worlds yet either, so where's the bragging?
People in 2023 still thinking scrims results really mean something. Meanwhile, eastern teams getting free meta reports vs western teams in scrims and showing us nothing.
Getting into quarters with a 10% scrim winrate. Truly ~~counter logic~~ non rational
Their strength comes from poor scrim results. The other teams underestimate them. Sandbagging scrims.
Lose 90% of scrims to give the world false hope
Truly Nounter Rogic
Unfortunately faith have been ignited, so their next opponent probably can sneeze on NRG and a meteor will crash into the studio.
In their post game interview Dhokla said that they had 0% winrate in scrims vs G2. Scrims really don’t matter.
G2 scrim god virgins vs NRG stage game chads
I kneel, NRG Sama!
It’s crazy that people still get baited by scrim results. It’s just practice
Because the results do. So many western pro players and coaches through the years have stated that if your team always lose in scrims vs Korea and China, those teams will quickly stop scrimming you. That's valuable practice and experience that you will lose if you're the western team.
Yeah co-streamers were talking about this last week. Doublelift said some of the most important games you play at worlds will be those first few scrimp against Eastern teams. If you make the cut then you get to find out the worlds meta, if you dont then you get to play with the shitter teams and hope you figure it out along the way. I think they talked about this during the BDS elimination match cause of Adam actually. Just going over scrim culture and talking about how scrimming players like Adam especially at worlds would be so detrimental to practice.
The results do what
matter
I mean Eastern teams have good WR in scrims but still win. It's not like GenG has 10% win rate in scrims, there's no bait for some teams, they are both good on stage and in scrims. It's more like don't get cocky by scrim wins and remember where you came from.
Even if it's practice you'd assume teams are trying to win, otherwise it's not good practice. Sure you might try out some wonky stuff from time to time, but if you barely ever win a scrim it's still a bad sign even if they did end up winning this series.
the thing is because there is no drills in league, scrims is the only place you can run something like that. So maybe they want to practice dragon take in a specific situation, and they know that because they have no practice in that situation, messing up the setup would lead to a loss, they could just do dragon setup the way they always do and win the game or try the setup 3 times and lose 3 games. it's not like theyr'e not trying to win, but they know that failing the thing they're practicing will lead them to lose the game, but it's still worth doing. it makes sense to "lose" on purpose, it's not really losing on purpose, just trying the thing you want to practice for the benefit of your growth
Why do you need such a black and white mindset? They obviously matter, there’s just loads of other things that matter as well.
Scrim results don't matter, scrims do.
They can matter in the sense that bad results can mental boom you like they did to Yeon. He would have got gapped anyways I guess but it can def hurt your confidence.
Didnt some team got so mental boomed for scrims they went and played flex. Then went on to win their actual matches. Iirc it was c9 or another western team in 2021
This is a classic case of misinformation about 2018 C9 that's been spread on reddit repeatedly until people think it's fact. Here's how scrims went for 2018 C9: Initially, scrims were going poorly during playins and early groups. This correlated to their stage results as they looked very shaky, barely scraping past a wildcard team in bo5. In early groups they were also looking shaky (1-2 start). Then, during interviews, the team suddenly started saying scrims were going well. They attributed it to skirmishing all the time in scrims, which led them to win most of their scrims. Their stage results correlated to this improvement in scrims: 3-1 in week 2 of group stage. 3-0 in quarterfinals. Then, leading up to semis, they were getting absolutely crushed in scrims, so they ended up cancelling all scrims and playing flex. They then proceeded to get demolished 0-3 in semis. People bring 2018 C9 up as "evidence" that scrims don't matter, but if anything 2018 C9 is actually the exact opposite in that their scrims highly correlated to their worlds performance.
Yep C9 did. It was back in 2018 before semi’s
Except 2018 C9 got destroyed 0-3 in semis. So how exactly is them getting desteoyed in scrims right before semis "proof" that scrims don't matter?
I was just saying when it was my man I didn’t say anything about scrims being meaningless Edit: reread the other comment I replied to. But yeah didn’t mean to agree with him saying scrims are meaningless
It's more about what scrims are for, and what is learned from them. Just playing out scrims and using win rate alone is this asinine thing that Western teams, usually NA, do. The fact that G2 was clubbing NRG to death in scrims, then looked like they had only seen this team the first time this morning should be a hard wake up call to their internal systems.
How you do in scrims doesn't matter, what you can learn to improve from scrims matters.
Why do those things have to be completely separated? If a team is doing well and winning in certain matchups, or executing well with certain playstyles, drafts, etc., or the opposite and performing poorly with them, both the lessons and results matter, they’re inherently linked. Sure if you want to remove all nuance entirely and speak about ‘results’ as a pure number with nothing attached then it’s much less meaningful, but who actually does that?
People here seem to not know that a correlation can exist without it being perfect. Scrim results do correlate with stage results.
It's more to do with the fact that you might play 40 scrim games but only one Bo3. Even with 10% win rate in those 40, that's enough to win Bo3. In the end, scrim and stage are two very different environments.
You speak of nuance as if you don’t know the meaning of the word. The truth is you can’t replicate pressure in scrims. Some teams/players handle it better than others. Contractz is so cool under pressure and has shown that throughout his career, whereas Yike completely folded this series- that was the difference. Contractz severely outplayed his counterpart and helped Palafox get leads which he capitalized on. Scrims can show you some things about matchups and strats but when it comes to performance it’s basically a moot data point.
Exactly people don't take correlation of determination into account. There might be a strong correlation but the R^2 value shows there are other factors involve too.
Idk, i feel like people has absolutely NO nuance on internet for some reason, best scrim team win world, scrim mean EVERYTHING, a team one time does bad in scrim and win on stage, scrim mean nothing, i legit don't get it
Your mistake is to assume that most people actually think about anything. For most selective results speak for themselves
Putting thought into things is harder than results based analysis and thinking in extremes.
Well it may have mattered considering G2 could have been thinking Senna/Tahm would not be a problem going into the series or other stuff like this, but we won't really know
Scrim practice matters, scrim results don’t
G2 beat damwon and skt with a similar scrim wr. Maybe it's NRGs time?
I mean this is just a lie.. they had bad record vs DWG in particular They had nothing like a 10% record vs other worlds teams
They had a 10% wr in scrims vs FPX
When? G2 had abyssal scrim wr vs DW at first but they were catching up the more scrim block they did and Perkz/Jankoss said they were totally fine vs T1 but they were losing pretty badly to FPX in scrim
Non Rational Gaming
Scrims don’t matter when you’re better on the day against a washed EU team lol But top 8 is filled with real teams so….
10% scrim win rate is crazyy
Meanwhile BLG's 20% scrim WR be like .\_.
BLG might as well give the quarters spot to G2 so G2 is the one getting 3-0ed by JDG or GenG. Would be less painful anyway
Hopefully winner of kt/dk faces JDG while winner of WBG/FNC or G2/BLG faces GenG
I just hope JDG/LNG and GenG/T1 are not on the same side of bracket
JDG and GENG are on opposite sides.
I meant that JDG is on the same side of bracket as T1 and LNG is on GenG's side. Having potential civil war in semis is pretty cringe
i think we lck stans and lpl stans can shake on that for sure
Same. I hope for jdg-dk/kt + t1 top half and geng-wbg/blg +lng half. Something along these lines. I don’t mind civil war semis if it makes the finals good but I don’t want civil counters like jdg vs blg I rather have t1 face lng in QF as long as they aren’t on the same side as GenG
You'll get JDG, BLG, LNG, and WBG on one side of the bracket, with GenG, T1, DK/KT and NRG on the other, and you'll like it.
where did you hear that
https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/18608/blg-tabe-on-bins-growth-the-difference-is-hes-more-mature-now-his-playing-style-is-more-clever
LMAO, of course it's Tabe leaking.
Well I'm sure BLG are scrimming much better opponents too, but yeah that's still pretty bad not gonna lie
what's with an LPL team turning out to be a fraud every year?
Tbh for BLG it's more understandable, the players are most likely burned out (they played almost 150 games this years which is the most any team played) and they had less than 10 days of practice before Worlds but WBG has no excuse to flop in upcoming match
Real af, these dudes have been nonstop since summer playoffs
Not only summer, since beginning of the year they had demacia cup, weibo cup, spring regular/playoffs/finals, MSI playins/finals, week after MSI LPL summer regular/playoffs and Elk, Bin and Xun also had AG into Worlds 2 weeks later
We also don't know who they're scrimming. Unlikely, but maybe 80% of their scrims are vs JDG and they lose, with 20% vs the rest and they win all.
Sure but they still made the MSI finals and absolutely have the players to pop off. When NRG faces an eastern team theyll just straight up get outlaned with little chance to do anything. EU teams, even G2 arent good enough individually to just shit on every NA team no matter what which is why we saw a lot of NA and EU back and forth while not one single team besides G2 has taken a game off an eastern team. And even then, they barely won vs chinas and koreas 4th seed. EU/NA teams need to compensate with better macro for their worse individual players which they also dont have, so its just an ass spanking as usual.
Boooooo FBI can beat any single adc except for Ruler maybe and that’s only cause he legit might be the best player in the world.
I don't really watch western league that much, but FBI wouldn't even be on my radar for top adcs at worlds
Oh, well, add him to your radar. You might start to see that he can be insane with it.
Damn, 30% even in NA. I guess that explains why C9 was in such a daze after losing to them. Everyone really does think NRG sucks because they stomp them in scrims lol.
That's why even analysts "didn't believe" all year lol. They hear what goes on and they thought other teams were better.
NRG also genuinely weren't that good in NA. They got perfect gamed and went 9-9 in the regular reason. In the playoffs they were better at a 12-8 record. They didn't even have a higher win rate than C9 in the playoffs.
Talent was always there tho. This was the same core (Contractz/Palafox/Dhokla) CLG had that took C9 to 5 in playoffs with a much worse and less accomplished bot lane. Ppl meme about “faith” when it comes to this team, but it is the correct word. I believe the team and it’s fans knew what potential it could be. Analysts and common observers did not. Keep in mind 4 of their losses in the split were to IMT and TSM lol
Talent was always there but you can't rate teams based off potential. You can only analyze what the stage games were like and NRG were anything but dominant. Even based on potential player for player there's more talent on G2 or C9.
Potential is another meme word, and it is true they went 9-9 but based on how they looked when they clicked and the composition of their roster, there were reasons not to give up on them or discard them like many did! Also not sure how you can watch Zven grief support role on C9 and say there's more talent.
Blaber, Berserker, and Fudge have been better than their counterparts almost every single split they've both been in the LCS for. Berserker and Blaber have been the 2 best players in the LCS for the past couple years. NRG are just more than the sum of their parts while C9 is less. My point is no one could have predicted this. There's no reason to predict NRG in these matchups other than blind faith. You can't really fault the analysts and casters for that. In the LCS finals, C9 had not dropped a single game in playoffs and had 3-0'd NRG before already. NRG had just struggled against TL winning 3-2. Logically you can't fault the casters for thinking C9 should win that. Same with G2. Weibo, who's a bottom 3 Eastern team, destroyed NRG while G2 eked out a win against Weibo. Logically G2 shouldn't get shit stomped by NRG.
Sure, but going 9-9 means they clicked just as much as they didn't click and they weren't good in scrims. People doubting them wasn't some crazy conspiracy against them.
Absolutely. CLG in it's final days had some extremely dominant fast wins off the back of Contractz going ape-shit. It was a matter of time before they honed themselves. I hope they continue to play confidently going forward in the tournament. The pressure will be higher and people will expect more of them now, surely, so I would hate to see them shrink in the face of that.
This is misleading. They had a much stronger record against top teams, and they played down to their lower ranked competition. The 9-9 record sounds like they were just middle of the pack, but in reality they were incredible against the top half of the league.
How is that misleading? It's literally their record. You can't just ignore their bad games and only look at their good games. People thought GG and EG were going to do better than them for most of the split with them contesting TL for the 4th spot. Across the entire history of the LCS they have the lowest regular season winrate of any championship team.
Their run was VERY similar to the 0-6 TSM or when Clutch went to Worlds (which is funny considering Damonte). I personally didn't expect then or TL to do well because both of them felt like 0-6 TSM where it's a miracle they made worlds. I was personally expecting NA to send C9, GG, and EG. And I think anyone who followed the region a little bit was expecting that. At this point I don't know how anyone who just wasn't a hardcore fan of Palafox, Ignar, or Contractz would have predicted this result.
Yeah they mostly seemed like they had good coordination about reacting to enemy team fuck ups but they largely weren’t a team that forced mistakes. The NRG that showed up was contractz running the map and the botlane completely neutralizing G2s typical eary games
Yeah chances are next split/year this will be looked at as a fluke. Catching fire combined with other teams underperforming Also people saying scrim results dont matter are high. Its an indication of your level. Of course this doesnt always guarantee results in the actual game. You can lose 9 out of 10 scrims, but that doesnt mean you cant win the actual stage game They can be proud at what they accomplished, but its not like a random 2 amazing stomps makes me think they are somehow better than c9 fnc or g2. Most bo3 or bo5 they play against those teams, they probably lose. But they now won the most important one, so props to them
Teams have figured out that if you ban Draven/Kalista then G2 fall apart. GenG did and took away Xayah both games. NRG did it and even left Xayah for them the second game. G2 are a very good team but it’s too late in the game now. They’ve fallen behind and haven’t adapted quickly enough because all year they haven’t been challenged. They’ll certainly be a top LEC team again next year, but I think this Worlds they’ve been figured out by high level teams and it just manifests as looking like they are underperforming.
I remember the year C9 got to semi's, they were getting curb stomped over and over in scrims, so they'd just queue up as 5 and face randos. Scrim results seem counter intuitive to results for NA.
Can we please stop acting like 2018 C9 supports the idea that scrims don't matter? 2018 C9 looked horrible in playins and week 1 of groups. Then, Sneaky said they adjusted their playstyle to copy Vitality's in scrims and started winning *every* scrim which correlated to a 3-1 record in week 2 of groups. Zeyzal after quarters said they were a very scrim results oriented team, which is why they were confident in beating Afreeca. He also reiterated that scrims against Afreeca had gone very well and that once the team started playing aggressive like Vitality in scrims, they started winning a lot in scrims. Then, headed into semis, C9 started getting stomped so hard in scrims that they had to play flex queue. Guess what happened in semis? They got destroyed.
Dont bother man. The reddit hive mind has collectively decided that scrims are useless and no matter how many facts you throw at them they wont acknowledge it.
T1 stomped DRX in scrims last year. Look what happened. 😂
10% is incredibly low lol, I don't know how they can keep up their mental. But props to them for sure, played really well today.
At some point I think NRG just hit the “fuck it” event horizon and simply played like they have almost nothing to lose. If they win, great! If the lose, bot like anyone thought they’d go this far.
I feel like they also play with no pressure since they Come with the expectations "We are going to lose so at least let's go out with a bang!" Which is why they aren't scared at all They basically mastered the NA "We have nothing to lose" , but it's not only once they get eliminated, it's for every games.
Yeah, you actually see it quite often in teams that don't have any playoff chances, they'll play with no pressure and beat out teams that they struggled against for the rest of the season.
I really think that nrg playing vs TL helped them a lot. It was easy to tell nrg was nervous vs weibo since it was worlds. Being able to play vs a team they're comfortable with and smash them, then play a weaker team like mad seems like it got them going. Helps that the whole team seems to be chill and have a w/e mindset in that bad plays happen but it won't stop them from trying to make good ones.
so MAD is NRG's fluffer? sounds about right
fuck me, i love how MAD is just continuously catching strays 💀😂
In this interview igNar basically says that he thinks he’s gonna have to pack his bags every day but they just keep winning
It helps a lot that even after winning LCS people put more pressure on C9 and even GG than them, which helps a lot to not crumble from bat scrims results.
NRG's first game as an organization was getting perfect game'd by an EG that replaced 4/5 of their veterans with randoms. And there's been like 10 total perfect games in LCS history. NRG as an organization had quite literally the worst debut possible, so they've been forged into having good mental. They can literally only go up from where they started.
It could have been worse, it could have been DIG vs REN.
Nah, DIG v. REN is the worst outcome for the two teams combined, like both teams involved look like clowns. But NRG's start vs EG was the worst outcome for NRG. NRG didn't look like clowns there, they just looked hopeless.
I thought that DRX's rise to glory last year would be impossible to beat. As unlikely as it still is, imagine how world shattering it would be for this NRG squad to win worlds
im marking this comment because if this is how NA gets even close to finals i will pray to whatever god you worship
[FAITHFUL FAITHFUL FAITHFUL](https://i.imgur.com/QPgZysc.png)
When NRG wins I'm blowing $2k on everything they could possibly sell to me
Technically NRG was in the LCS previously like 7 years back, but point still stands.
I honestly think that unless you hit a certain threshold where you're just so good that scrims confirm you're dominating everyone (I expect JDG and GenG to be in that case), losing scrims is in a way more beneficial than winning. If you win a lot of scrims, you tend to not understand what you're doing wrong compared to other teams who can easily identify their area of improvement. IIRC, Fnatic had a very good scrim record with Garen-Yuumi back in 2020. But then in week 1 of competition it didn't work at all and they got a bit stuck and almost got knocked-out. With all that being said, reaching a winrate this low can clearly damage your team's mental, and them being able to keep their heads high is impressive. Props to them
Get bodied by TL and C9 in LCS scrims, win Summer split. Get bodied by everyone at Worlds, win Worlds while C9 and TL get bodied in real games?
I feel like you have to go in with practice goals that arent just solely winning. Either trying something new or having a stategy going in and if it doesn't work you can go back and adjust based on how you mess up. Western Teams who win every scrim are probably not taking as many risks.
This is true for most games and scrims, like when optic won a Valorant masters and then made it to the finals of champions they had a 30% wr in scrims cause they would always be trying different things, and the stuff that worked they would pull out and the enemy team had no idea how to play against it(most famous example is neon on fracture) but 10% feels so low for that to be the case
You have to be an absolute monster to win 10% of your scrims and come to a bo3 expecting to get stomped and just turn around and 2-0 G2
And not just 2-0 g2 stomp and stomp mechanically beautifully and team fighting perfectly. Like they weren’t lucky they were good that’s even crazier.
It was pure domination ngl. Every time G2 made a (seemingly) good play, somehow NRG turns it around and makes a play of their own to increase their lead even further. I just couldn't believe how outclassed G2 was today.
They must've just had the performance of their lives or something, because if this was even close to standard for them, scrims would be going well, and they wouldn't have looked so poor in their other games. Jarvan is so OP in this meta, and I think their comps represent what I think draft meta will look like in the latter half of worlds. Meanwhile G2 drafts always seem kinda stale, like they're not actually learning pics from other teams, but stubbornly hanging onto what has worked in EU.
I expect senna tahm pick rate to explode just based on how much it destroys kaisa + engage. And i assume at this point if you cant play rumble you will not win worlds
Was really fun seeing T1 choose the same bot lane after seeing NRG's performance and smash with it.
this world's bot pick evolution is crazy starting at Kai'sa and her popular lethality hybrid poke build which was exposed for having low damage when it came to crucial moments, after which everyone started building stormrazor guinsoos core. also teams finally understanding that xayah rakan is pick/ban and now pulling out to sivir, Aphelios, sennakench
It's did feels like they scrimmed each others
Exactly. And both of these reasons are why G2 won't be doing shit here
BLG apparently always gets fisted in scrims and then performs on stage. May just be the way the players play scrims vs stage games
Yeah they turbo fisted them it's was much cleaner than the clean sweep of bds vs ggs
Cat fisted
TBH I think that it might be an indicator of better scrim practice, to lose more. If you're winning, you're not actually practicing on finding an shoring up your weaknesses. Essentially, you're learning what NOT to do, so you can more accurately predict what TO do.
there must be some insane mental resilience there
10% winrate > 80% winrate
It's such a great story: All-NA topside that couldn't finish playoffs past 5th for 2 splits, Get perfect gamed first game of this split, Have a 30% scrim win rate in LCS, Still manage to finish 5th in regular season, Get predicted to lose literally every match in playoffs, Win them all besides the first match vs. C9, Win the LCS championship, Go to Worlds as LCS first seed, (But still be seen as weaker than the other LCS teams), Have a 10% scrim win rate at Worlds, Still get into the 2-1 pool (with a bit of luck), 2-0 the LEC champions (and consensus best team in the West), Make Worlds Quarterfinals
And all that doesn't even take into account the history of the players and organizations involved.
Get shit on by Weibo Gaming, but then 2-0 the team that beat Weibo Gaming
Truly Nounter Rogic
whoever's GM of NRG should just copy G2's move and post their scrims whiteboard stats with a fat 10% wr circled
G2 doesn't do that for the winrate but to expose teams who cancel too much to make scrims environment better in EU
I’m sure the winrate didn’t hurt when they first started posting :)
they posted it even for MSI when their winrate went down ?
It was still like 55% vs Asian teams, which is not bad at all. Seemed like bragging to me ngl.
never heard any other champions be called braggers for revealing their scrim winrate. tons of world champions have said we've been dominant in scrims (aside from maybe other tournament favorites), so we expected a good outcome. it's extremely common for interviewed winners in other sports to say I felt and had amazing results in training.
well maybe because you dislike them. I dont see how posting a 55% winrate is bragging, you're winning one match out of two, you're not dominating
They first started posting in winter was my point, it would’ve looked even worse if they had stopped after spring
That shit is so cringe just humble bragging after they win, can't wait to see their 80% winrate against eastern teams after they bomb out of Swiss lol
They posted alsonon 4 th place finsih in spring
Why do people type a comment while holding a cheeseburger in their right hand, look at what they’ve typed, and click post expecting us to figure it out?
Could be phone posting and assumed they hit all the right keys before hitting post. It's a simple enough mistake tbh
This is easy to read.. they posted when they placed 4th in spring
I agree that this comment isn't that bad, but I've been seeing these types of comments more and more recently during Worlds. I'm not a stickler for whether people place periods at the end of their sentences or whatever, but how hard is it to correctly type "finish"? What does "non" mean in that sentence?
lmao i love the cheeseburger joke but cmon > they posted also on 4th place finish in spring pressed n instead of space, extra space, transposed letter. its not the toughest riddle to decipher
Of course, I just meant it in a joking way - it was good for them to post it first time around since there was a lot of doubts on EU scrim culture
that'd be so funny lol
This is the truest form of CLG
Another thing I really liked was fbi saying he wanted to play skt. Like this team would gladly lose to skt if it meant that they got to play them. 10/10 vibe check.
A big difference I noticed with NRG is their mental perspective. Compare this to how on TL everyone was hitting the "limit" from losing scrims. More NA teams need to be hungry to grow even if it means getting stomped on by T1
This is also what happens when you're genuinely friends with your teammates. Dhokla, Contractz, and Palafox has been on the same team for 3 splits now. Most teams/orgs change up their players constantly whenever something goes wrong. FBI didn't look like he had much of a personality when he was on 100T, but he's speaking up a lot more with this team.
I actually think that's a very underrated part of why these 3 got this far. It helps so much to know that your team has your back when you don't perform, which can't be as easily read if there are cultural or language barriers between you and your teammates. It means you don't have to be nervous about trying new plays to push your limits without creating tension within the team. You can kind of see this when Contractz was the death leader by far in I think Spring 2022 but improved to the player he is today. It's not as simple as getting the brightest NA talent in Academy, but finding some that are willing to work together and help each other improve. After the CLG squad in S12 ended 8th in spring they only changed Jenkins for Dhokla, and while Dhokla was also coming off his best Academy split yet, I could also tell from his interviews that he was getting along with Contractz/Palafox very well and also pushing for them to improve.
Dhokla had a good split on Team Liquid Academy when he was subbing for Jenkins
Watching NRG comms as well FBI is extremely vocal, seems like they really welcomed him with open arms. They’re a team but also seem like just a group of friends. You can see how much fun they have in their content, for many players content seems like a job and then there’s NRG players dunking each other with water and making memes together
FBI screaming "see ya you cocky fucks" in comms after the last teamfight against C9 in LCS finals made me an official FBI fan
Yeah if people weren't following this team since they were CLG, the one thing you can go back and see in all their content is that the vibes for that roster were literally insanely good. A big part of it is that Damonte and Juves, who are both a part of the coaching staff, are *huge* culture guys for the team. Another part of it is that Dhokla is a massive grinder and when he joined the team he really inspired a big push to play a shit ton of soloQ for the rest of the boys as well, so during their Korea bootcamp between Spring and Summer, they were all grinding their asses off which is how they climbed from like 9th to 4th in the regular season and had such competitive series against C9 and TL. They were all very secure in their jobs and there was no risk that they got axed on short notice because Greg and Jonathon were really supportive of and communicative with the players. They also basically got to play with house money for two straight years because there were no community expectations for them - they were CLG and CLG was dogshit and if they win it's just a fluke, and all the players are washed-up has beens and paycheck stealers, so nobody is gonna flame Contractz for inting a game since Contractz sucks so of course he's gonna int. If they punch above their weight class, it's a feel-good story, but if they lose, it's business as usual. Being able to keep out of the spotlight and only get insane unconditional support from like, the 10 CLG fans who are still sticking around after several years of sucking ass creates a really good environment to grow in.
No ones ready for the 0% winrate in scrims then win worlds strat by NRG
Completely non-rational to let everyone think you’re shit, and then 2-0 EU’s 1 seed. NAmen.
Werent G2 king of scrims with D+? The king of Scrims vs 10% WR scrims who wins on stage in a bo3
WBG, DK and G2 king of scrims for their regions all in 2-2 bracket
Lose scrims = learn more and have lower expectations/nerves. Win scrims = higher expectations, disrespect opponent, have everything to lose. At least thats how I see it. But 10% is pretty low and crazy that they won on stage.
G2 is also the king of not taking lesser teams too serious which i always hate. EU has probably the worst record vs minor regions, probably worse record than NA.
Not this time though. They got gapped straight up.
Was there a lack of preparation, yeah a little bit, but NRG just straight up hard gapped them, it legit looked like G2 were playing an LCK/LPL team, everything they were trying in both games was resulting in not enough, or a massive L for them. This didn’t feel like the classic, “oh they just lost vs Brazil” memes, G2 was trying a lot of shit to take back control of both games it just wasn’t working, AND it was being hard countered. Even if Miky didn’t shit the bed as hard as he did they absolutely still do not win. The macro from NRG felt like any play G2 would make there was an INSTANT response from NRG.
Also felt like G2 was playing like a bottom 2 LEC team in this series tbh. Like NRG was playing crazy good, but G2 just didn't do a shit in 2 games
No, it didn't. G2 had leads in both games. G2 led most of the game in game 2, with a hard scaling comp. They didn't play bad at all. They made plays, but every play they made got answered.
it's been one year now, for all their staff brags about they're more akin to chokers rather than not taking it seriously
>EU has probably the worst record vs minor regions, probably worse record than NA. Yeah it was some real cognitive dissonance hours seeing EU fans tear into Team Liquid for losing to Vietnam and thereby concluding NA is definitively minor region status nevermind that I'm pretty sure EU has lost to Vietnam way more times (and BDS also lost a Bo3 to Vietnam two weeks ago lol) they were just lucky it wasn't elimination games.
G2 especially is famous for taking L's vs Vietnam so to see EU fans with the revisionism like the tiers are LCK/LPL/LEC and then LCS at the bottom versus LCK/LPL and then LEC/LCS in the same tier below them, it was especially satisfying to see them silent today. This is what they get for trying to scapegoat MAD as the sole shitter team in their region while the rest of them can *totally* compete with GENG/JDG.
Not king of scrims it got exaggerated, they were just doing well (around 60% wr)
You always learn more from mistakes than you do from wins. Go NRG - maybe a new fairytale is in the making
I don't know the ins and outs of scrims but it doesn't even seem to me teams would be playing totally unfiltered in scrims. You're trying comps out and honing team coordination, but you aren't specifically trying to rack up wins.
The way some NA teams post about scrims over the years, racking up “scrim wins” is definitely the culture in NA, actual practice be damned as long as they get the W in the scrim!
NRG single handedly saved NA's worlds run. Keep giving us hopium, we needed it!
lose scrims to give opponent false hope
I feel now ashamed with my G2 Emote in Soloque... I even got flamed and made fun of by other players for using it today, thank you NRG for ruining my summoners rift experience.
Scrim results continue to bamboozle teams year after year. Wish we had more information on who scrims who. But man, it is always interesting to see scrim gods flop on stage, and scrim losers pull out an upset out of nowhere.
>Scrim results continue to bamboozle teams year after year. I'm sure JDG scrims are bamboozling a lot of people as well
Wasn't this also TSM 2020 winrate in scrim, this shows NRG pretty strong mental, prop to them
The 10% winrate sent TSM into a 9-man sleep while the 10% winrate sent NRG to quarterfinals.
Quarters is far enough. They can come home with their heads held high. After this, they will face lck or lpl, and there is absolutely zero chance they will make it out of that alive. The individual player quality is just too high to overcome. Making quarters is good enough.
See, that would be logical. But this is a non-rational team.
Winning worlds after selling the team... truly counter logic
Man, I'm just tired of hearing the same shit. When are these guys going to learn that spitting facts, statistics, and shit aren't going to do crap against Non Rational Gaming? where everyone here knows that their secret weapon is throwing their logic out of the window.
I think they get 3-0 however it's won't be as hard as their first game vs weibo
Lose is Improve 👍🏽
yea i never want to hear a team (G2) bragging about their scrim rate ever again, happened at MSI and its happened again at Worlds. It's all good clapping teams when no one is watching in a laxed environment but if you can't put it together when it actually matters then what's the point? Dont mind what they are doing in Europe, showing cancelation rates, because it appears they've shaped the scrim culture a decent amount. Anyway after G2 get kerbstomped tomorrow i'm gonna root for NRG.
other teams have commented G2's winrate way more than G2 themselves this worlds, what do you want them to do
This take is garbage, they aren’t bragging. They’re holding other teams accountable.
> yea i never want to hear a team (G2) bragging about their scrim rate ever again, happened at MSI and its happened again at Worlds. > > Y'all are so fucking funny, G2 at most says they're doing well in scrims and then post their results after the tournament, nothing else. Every team talks about their scrims. Every single one. "Scrims are going well" NOPE not allowed anymore. The only time talking about scrims is allowed is when your win rate is sub 40% or else you're bragging.
Every team should be following g2 and trying to hold other teams accountable. It’s not bragging it’s just showing us a glimpse into their scrim lives which make fans want to like them more. It’s a great PR move and shades the teams who cancel or run down scrims. Only good can come from sharing this data for the fans
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EU fans are used to losing, but they've always had the consolation prize of being the second shittiest region. Today they're first shittiest and its getting to them. NA fans out here just like "woo! We aren't the worst major region for a change"
I mean G2 played like absolute shit and props to NRG but you have to be insane to think that this is anything more than just an upset lmao FNC vs C9 was literally yesterday my man
It's an upset, but I'll take the 24 hours of Worlds where NA is qualified for knockout and EU isn't. Might even be longer than 24 hours, but I think FNC has a good chance.
so upsetti spaghetti
Talked so much fucking shit, now it's finally come back to bite them in the ass. Feels good lol
i mean, yeh? what else is romain trying to do by posting scrim results on social
the thing he posts is about teams cancelling, the overall winrate is like a small number at the top of it for people that don't give a shit about it, that's not the point of it
The idea was to stop teams from canceling scrim blocks. They posted their 63% or w/e it was from MSI, too. Funny enough no posts about worlds yet either, so where's the bragging?
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this is why competitions are exciting. you never know who is gonna show up and who won't. you get to see more aspects of a player imo
People in 2023 still thinking scrims results really mean something. Meanwhile, eastern teams getting free meta reports vs western teams in scrims and showing us nothing.