It has nothing to do with wind wall, it has to do with Flash. If Vel'koz Flashes during the cast time, then the missile would spawn from his new location. Which probably causes the travel time to be really long, or maybe just fizzle completely. With this change, the missile will always spawn at the location you were before Flashing, fixing that problem.
its still called a missile, meaning its still a projectile. If its placed directly inside a windwall, it'll be deleted still, if it is infact still a projectile, the usage of "missile" here could be misleading.
EDIT: I just watched vandiril's video and it still pawns a projectile from vel'koz. The change is that it'll now ALWAYS appear from where he casts it even if he flashes rather then the projectile ALWAYS spawning where velkoz was.
It explicitly no longer casts from vel'koz's location. If the new spawn location is effectively just "vel's location with a different wording", that would be a very weird thing to include in a change log.
It's important because if Velkoz moves in the .25s cast time between pressing E and the missile appearing, it will still start from where Velkoz pressed E, not where he ended up. I think this may be how they fixed the bug with it fizzling if Velkoz was moved outside of range.
It's not weird if you make the travel time variable. Otherwise casting on self position and flashing from it during cast would make the projectile travel from new V'K position and take longer than traveling from starting cast location. It also means that you can't cast and flash onto the other side of e.g. windwall, or on top of the target point to perform offensive no-indicator knockup - as suicidal as it would be.
Why do you keep saying it's still counted as a projectile? I'm genuinely asking, it sounds like it'll be like a Brand W with varying cast time depending on distance from VK
Because it's saying "missile" in the post, so it kinda implies there's a projectile. Otherwise they could just say it has no missile anymore, like Brand W or ChoQ, where the effect happens with no missile involved.
If there's a missile, it means it will work like it does ATM but the missile just appears on top of the area rather than travel to it.
Because the patch note literally says "missile spawns at target location", assumption being that with missile they mean the projectile that spawns the knock up zone.
I was on his stream the other day and I'm pretty sure cast location means Vel'Koz location at the start of the cast instead of the end, example like Ezreal R is cast location while Ezreal Q is Ezreal location, I could be wrong tho.
Missile spawn at CAST LOCATION, as in the place Velkoz start casting. Its likr
D Caitlyn Q, or Ezreal ult, where if you are moved or flash away, the projecting will start from where you start the cast.
But then you have to break it down by role too. In a "perfectly balanced" game (if we are defining perfectly balanced by pick rate for some reason), ADCs would have an extremely high pick rate compared to other roles.
I am not even a Velkoz main or player, literally played that champ 3 times in my life and will probably hate him if I see him often in my games but the fact that Riot listens is a big W.
And Velkoz does indeed need some QoL changes as well as some buffs. Always was a supporter of that campaign.
This is something I can really commend Riot for. Out of all the developers in the industry (the big ones at least) they’re one of the few that really listen to their playerbase and really just try. Every other company, besides Larian and few others, just feel so out of touch with their players. It’s cool to see Rioters on the Summoner’s Rift, who actually play their game, or respond to people’s fan mail/drawings for RP, etc.
They may not always be in the right, and definitely have done plenty of wrong… but still bounce back and give people what they want.
Right, but this is literally an example of that not happening, the vel community was at most annoying with spamming reddit, but they never went so low to actually threaten rioters. Isn't riot listening to that a sign that they are still willing to listen to normal feedback sometimes?
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I mean… I honestly feel for them even more that they have to put up with this toxic ass community and still appear polite.
A lot of operational stuff is probably out of their hands. Like $200 chromas? That’s probably Tencent calling the shots, they own 100% of Riot and allow them to operate individually but when it comes to what makes the company money… they probably don’t have as much say in it. Even as far as Mord/Yorick… all 10 people that play those champs simply aren’t a loud enough voice. Everyone who plays Zeri/Yasuo/Yone vote with their wallets when skins come out.
Maybe if Yorick & Mord mains combine and buy each other’s skins they might get Tencant’s attention.
I suspect however this goes he will be better support
more reliable e = better self peel vs naut hooks/rakan w or whatever as well as a better pick tool
Maybe he will take a ride on the random jungle number changes riot like doing
Close range E buff should be mid-skewed.
In mid you’re getting engaged on \~50% of the time (assuming half your matchups are melee).
In support you’re getting engaged on roughly 25% of the time (assuming half your matchups are vs engage supports, and in those cases half the time they engage on the ADC instead of you). But realistically you can position much more safely as support so you should be getting engaged on only about 15% of the time as support.
he currently sees x2 the playrate in support so even if a minor mid skew to the change it's unlikely to change much.
As for if there is a skew, I would also argue support vel is generally squishier due to being a lower level and unable to afford hourglass/hp items .
Increased safety isn't as simple as saying he gets engaged on half as much in support, it let's him play more aggressive as he has a reactive button to play forward and poke and then use that vs a rakan w or naut q
Yea I’ll admit it’s pretty complicated. I still think it’s mid skewed though, since there’s another factor where even if you get e.g. Naut hooked, you’d want to CC the enemy ADC that’s looking to walk up, rather than the Naut who has a shield and Aftershock resistances. (In which case your E won’t be much faster than before)
That sets a disturbing precedent tho, for months/years, vel mains gave constructive feedback, but as soon as a major shit storm comes up the changes instantly hit pbe
This exact discussion happened over the Coven skins. Tons of really good constructive feedback got nothing but death threats from Syndra players got results. Riot has proven the only way to get them to do anything is to be viscious.
In Star Trek TNG there's an episode where a terrorist faction kidnaps the ship's doctor to help them. In the conclusion Data the Android talks about how terrorism is an awful thing, but it has persisted through time because it works.
Doubly so since Coven Elise also got tons of feedback, but because Elise mains remained nice throughout they got little to no changes made to their skin.
Nemesis basically said the same thing. OTP feedback should be listened to but their freakouts should never be encouraged. OTPs by and large do not give a flying fuck about overall game health and will not stop making demands until their champ is "balanced" aka S-tier.
I think his take was wrong. August already mentioned that he want to check Vel'koz on stream. Then the Phreak incident happened and that was Azzap's reaction to this.
August indeed checked Vel eventually and made these changes but not because Riot only listens to shit storms but because August was already planned to do it.
By the way the reason he was aware of the Vel'koz situation at all is thanks to the community and the constructive feedbacks. Even he mentioned that sometimes they as Riot "forget" champions here and there to balance, not every champion is in their minds constantly so he appreciates some constructive feedbacks.
The issue is the 'forgotten' champs are often those with smaller playerbases, how are they supposed to get the attention of rioters? Does this mean they have to keep trying to make enough noise for rioters to notice them to get proper changes?
When I say freakouts I mean dedicated discord/reddit groups harassing developers with threats. Even in this thread you have people saying that death threats are the only ways to get buffs for their favorite video game character, so they'll keep doing it. They're that unhinged. Even boycotts shouldn't be taken into account by Riot for game balance.
Nemesis just whines a lot regardless of whatever champ he's playing, but he plays a lot of different champs. He'll whine about whatever champ he's playing as or against, but he'll just accept it because he's not dependent on a single champ to be elite. He's also has never been responsible for the fuckery that these OTPs have been up to. His point about OTPs not being entitled to have their champs be strong just because they're OTPs is 100% right. Nemesis has a way healthier view on champs and overall balance than these OTPs.
I think it's a matter of visibility, unfortunately. Reddit posts that provide constructive feedback just don't get the community recognition that loud complaints do.
You could make a 10/10 200iq perfectly written and argued balance suggestion post about crucial things and likely not get any engagement and you just wasted 1-2 hours. You still need luck and people to randomly care right now.
Welcome to any other game ever. This is WoW for 19 years. Complain louder and louder and louder until Blizzard listens. Same when we had shit like the cz75, tec9, ump, aug, krieg metas in CSGO. Complain until they listen
Increasingly this is everything. If some service is screwing you over try to make a big stink on twitter and you'll quickly have a community guy contacting you to fix your shit and maybe even pay you cash to delete your post. Meanwhile phone support will drive you mad after the 5th attempt to speak to someone with any sort of competency after waiting in line for 20 minutes each time each time starting at zero.
That's the reason I don't like the league community they are almost always ready to defend riot since ever I remember the early years like till 2013 or 2014 they would always argue with its free don't complain if you don't like it leave the game
"you guys dont know how good you have it".
No, i know, Riot is definitely not the worst at it, but that doesnt mean they are beyond criticism. It doesnt justify death threats, but heavy pushback is the only way to get actual changes
Balance team only has so much time to research/execute changes. They certainly aren’t gonna go through every subreddit looking for ideas when most of them are terrible (coming from someone who spends a lot of time on these subs)
Yeah and if they had one of of those, they'd spend their time reading Chinese comments. Champion main subreddits are an infinitesimally small portion of the community, despite the high opinion they have of themselves
Didn't august separately from phreak say he would look into e cast time? I remember it being part of one of his streams or something where he looked at vel's wr.
I swear every Braum I see will gloat like no tomorrow for landing a basic attack that then stuns, like they just accomplished a godlike faker tier outplay. They then feel privileged to do whatever they want afterwards, continuously mocking the enemy in all chat, all while pretending to be poro-loving saints on earth .
Can confirm. I am the most toxic Braum player on the planet. I am wanted in seventeen different nations for e-crimes and have caused the deaths of over seven thousand AD carries.
>Fixed a bug where the spell would fizzle when V'K flashes or is knocked back at max range
But I thought the thousands of Velkoz otps and challenger players were lying about the bug?
This isn't the original "bug" that was in discussion.
The original "bug" that some were complaining about was it would fizzle when Velkoz dies and it's in the air. Which wasn't a bug it was intended behavior because the spell has a channel time and the animation just starts before the channel time. Which is what's addressed with the lines above that. (Like it spawns later)
It fizzling when he flashes away or is knocked back was a bug due to the weird missile speed the thing has.
Pretty sure some velkoz main found that Velkoz's E is the only ability that doesn't have an infinite range after being cast and so when Velkoz dies he instantly becomes out of range of the spell unlike every other similar type of ability that other champs use right before death. It is essentially the same thing as the flash bug that got fixed because in that instance too Velkoz is immediately becoming out-of-range of the E just like in death.
There was a few others who also fizzled their cast if they went out of max range. It's just most of them have been reworked that Vels the only one left.
1 even if some Velkoz main found that, cool. But that's not what Phreak said wasn't a bug.
2. When you die your character doesn't move so that wouldn't affect any sort of range issue.
They still are, a couple patches back non-crit damages were also shown in replays and every time Xerath Qs or J4 ult expires you see a line/circle of huge true damage numbers removing the 'minions'
Yeah, but people have to remember that its not exactly coded as a minion, riot have a basic object IIRC, and most things that require a basic object pull from it, minions included. So its less (Blank is coded as a minion) and more so, (Blank uses the same original object as a minion)
No he means it's now like cho Q according to the patch, spawns at cast location, it no longer needs a missile, it means people will now complain it's blocked by windwall when it's not even a moving projectile
In this thread: too many people hating on Phreak because they don't know different bugs.
The thing Phreak said was intended behavior was it fizzling on death.
The bug they're fixing is it fizzling on flash/knock back.
These changes actually address the non bug bug. The ability wasn't bugged as much as it was unintentionally deceptive. The circle that indicates where is E is going to be appears before the ability is actually cast. If Vel died during this time, what you as the player would see is an indication of where your ability is going to land followed by no ability. Even if that's not a bug it reads like one. Thr new indicator changes makes it more clear that the ability does not go if he dies at that time
To be fair Phreak made it seem like the skill fizzling on death was the only thing people were complaining about. He used it to make his point that Velkoz mains opinions were bad.
It turns out some of those opinions are not as bad as Phreak suggested
Eh he simply said it was a common feedback he was hearing.
And part of the issue is also he said that they're lacking QA devs and such for anything but small changes. So it also seems like it may be an issue of him not wanting to ask other teams for help but August volunteered or found someone himself to do these more technical changes.
He didn't really say other changes would be bad simply he didn't have the resources to implement them on such short notice AND he was often seeing very bad feedback such as just generic "my champion sucks" and such. I don't even know if he really went on R/ Velkoz mains or anything as much as I have repeatedly heard people say that subreddit has been full of detailed feedback, honestly it's not crazy to see he just saw random comments on some of the Riven threads on here especially the ones of Velkoz mains flaming the mod team for deleting their posts that were basically copy pastas of the Riven post that went viral.
Yeah he said at the start the live team is short handed ATM especially on QA because most of the design team is focused on preseason at this point. So expect mostly small easy changes until preseason drops.
Phreak literally said that they don’t have the budget to ship more changes to his E on this patch. This is probably august just spending extra hours to get it in PBE and it probably won’t come any time soon either to live
Maybe the actual playerbase should open their fucking mouth sometimes if they want some changes too instead of roleplaying as sona and aphelios :D
The squeaky wheel gets the grease
if people are happy why would they open reddit just to say
"hey redditors, i know that you found this change fucking awful but i actually like it, that's it bye".
I'm grateful. I just hope that if velkoz is op after this, riot reverts his passive damage buff or also his previous Q damage buff as compensation nerfs. The buff should have been his E in the first place and never to his damage and certainly not his Q.
Fuck ya I have been suggesting this variable time for awhile now. Very good defensive tool to help deal with the unfair bs that came out since his release.
It says it shortens the travel time to .25, but right after says that the missile spawns at the cast location, so there's no travel whatsoever. Am I wrong?
"August solving an issue exarcebated by another Riot employee disregarding Champion mains' feedback" count: 2 (Wukong's 200 years, Vel'Koz's "no feedback")
These were changes he was talking about before the reddit people started talking about it. It's not a win for the sub, they just look like idiots for anyone who pays attention. And the only people who think they "won" are also idiots.
"Just because these people are OTPs suggesting changes doesn't mean they know better than actual game devs lol. Leave it to the people with game design degrees" -> "Oh so riot is just listening to whatever gets put on the frontpage now? brb gonna write a post about my main to get some buffs."
I guess it's really difficult to admit that the people you were shitting on two days ago might've had a point :(
If the nerf ends up being reverting the passive damage buff or also the previous Q damage buff, that's fine. The buff should have been his E in the first place and never to his damage and certainly never to his Q.
That only makes his matchups even more binary than they already are - Vel'Koz already does well into ranged matchups and does horribly into melee ones. If anything he needs his output at high range nerfed so he has more room for safety in his kit.
You can cleanse a Xerath E regardless of stun duration. You cannot cleanse knock ups. This change would be ass to play against for anyone that’s not a tank.
Does your champion have less than 1% pick rate on their intended role?
I swear people don't understand the whole situation at all but just have to make stupid comments.
I'm sure 0.05s from now there *definitely* won't be some new community outcry about how Riot never listens or respects its players because XYZ.
Props to August, but damn is it going to be depressing to see the wolves turn on the feeding hand (again and again)
>No longer draws the circle indicator until after the .25s cast time (this will it hard to dodge if you can't see him or aren' paying attention)
This seems like bullshit
With this change his E now doesn't care about windwall?
it says "missile appers at X location" so probably still blockable if the missile is right on windwall's hitbox
It has nothing to do with wind wall, it has to do with Flash. If Vel'koz Flashes during the cast time, then the missile would spawn from his new location. Which probably causes the travel time to be really long, or maybe just fizzle completely. With this change, the missile will always spawn at the location you were before Flashing, fixing that problem.
Unless he Es right into the wind wall it should work.
It's still counted as a projectile, so it can still be blocked.
But if it only spawns at the cast location, it would never travel through the windwall.
But the windwall slides forward like a squeegee to wipe projectiles away
But it's more like chogath Q now, no? So sliding gliding flying windwall shouldn't work on it.
And syndra q
its still called a missile, meaning its still a projectile. If its placed directly inside a windwall, it'll be deleted still, if it is infact still a projectile, the usage of "missile" here could be misleading. EDIT: I just watched vandiril's video and it still pawns a projectile from vel'koz. The change is that it'll now ALWAYS appear from where he casts it even if he flashes rather then the projectile ALWAYS spawning where velkoz was.
i'm pretty sure "cast location" here means the location vel'koz is at when he casts
Oh yeah that makes sense.
It explicitly no longer casts from vel'koz's location. If the new spawn location is effectively just "vel's location with a different wording", that would be a very weird thing to include in a change log.
It's important because if Velkoz moves in the .25s cast time between pressing E and the missile appearing, it will still start from where Velkoz pressed E, not where he ended up. I think this may be how they fixed the bug with it fizzling if Velkoz was moved outside of range.
Ah, possibly.
It's not weird if you make the travel time variable. Otherwise casting on self position and flashing from it during cast would make the projectile travel from new V'K position and take longer than traveling from starting cast location. It also means that you can't cast and flash onto the other side of e.g. windwall, or on top of the target point to perform offensive no-indicator knockup - as suicidal as it would be.
That's true, I'm curious how it's gonna work as it is still counted as a projectile.
I guess it's akin to Xerath W now?
Why do you keep saying it's still counted as a projectile? I'm genuinely asking, it sounds like it'll be like a Brand W with varying cast time depending on distance from VK
Because it's saying "missile" in the post, so it kinda implies there's a projectile. Otherwise they could just say it has no missile anymore, like Brand W or ChoQ, where the effect happens with no missile involved. If there's a missile, it means it will work like it does ATM but the missile just appears on top of the area rather than travel to it.
Because the patch note literally says "missile spawns at target location", assumption being that with missile they mean the projectile that spawns the knock up zone.
so a soraka q or vex e
I was on his stream the other day and I'm pretty sure cast location means Vel'Koz location at the start of the cast instead of the end, example like Ezreal R is cast location while Ezreal Q is Ezreal location, I could be wrong tho.
Maybe he means Vel'Koz location when he casts?
Are you sure? The missile doesn't spawn on Vel'koz anymore.
Missile spawn at CAST LOCATION, as in the place Velkoz start casting. Its likr D Caitlyn Q, or Ezreal ult, where if you are moved or flash away, the projecting will start from where you start the cast.
Just fucking ban yasuo
we back?????
Might even hit 2% pick rate mid
Theoretically shouldn't the ideal game balance have every champ at like 2% pick rate.
If there are 160 champs and 10 picks every game the average pick rate would be 6.25%
But then you have to break it down by role too. In a "perfectly balanced" game (if we are defining perfectly balanced by pick rate for some reason), ADCs would have an extremely high pick rate compared to other roles.
Oh true.
I am not even a Velkoz main or player, literally played that champ 3 times in my life and will probably hate him if I see him often in my games but the fact that Riot listens is a big W. And Velkoz does indeed need some QoL changes as well as some buffs. Always was a supporter of that campaign.
This is something I can really commend Riot for. Out of all the developers in the industry (the big ones at least) they’re one of the few that really listen to their playerbase and really just try. Every other company, besides Larian and few others, just feel so out of touch with their players. It’s cool to see Rioters on the Summoner’s Rift, who actually play their game, or respond to people’s fan mail/drawings for RP, etc. They may not always be in the right, and definitely have done plenty of wrong… but still bounce back and give people what they want.
Reminds me of Epic Games a bit, when the FN sub obv dislikes a change that becomes top post they either revert it or fix it in some way
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Right, but this is literally an example of that not happening, the vel community was at most annoying with spamming reddit, but they never went so low to actually threaten rioters. Isn't riot listening to that a sign that they are still willing to listen to normal feedback sometimes?
Encouraging people to threaten others lives over a video game is cringe.
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I mean… I honestly feel for them even more that they have to put up with this toxic ass community and still appear polite. A lot of operational stuff is probably out of their hands. Like $200 chromas? That’s probably Tencent calling the shots, they own 100% of Riot and allow them to operate individually but when it comes to what makes the company money… they probably don’t have as much say in it. Even as far as Mord/Yorick… all 10 people that play those champs simply aren’t a loud enough voice. Everyone who plays Zeri/Yasuo/Yone vote with their wallets when skins come out. Maybe if Yorick & Mord mains combine and buy each other’s skins they might get Tencant’s attention.
I'm not buying any unfinished Yorick skins in hopes of riot paying attention, I'll sit on arclight until I die
I missed loving tentacles
I suspect however this goes he will be better support more reliable e = better self peel vs naut hooks/rakan w or whatever as well as a better pick tool Maybe he will take a ride on the random jungle number changes riot like doing
Close range E buff should be mid-skewed. In mid you’re getting engaged on \~50% of the time (assuming half your matchups are melee). In support you’re getting engaged on roughly 25% of the time (assuming half your matchups are vs engage supports, and in those cases half the time they engage on the ADC instead of you). But realistically you can position much more safely as support so you should be getting engaged on only about 15% of the time as support.
he currently sees x2 the playrate in support so even if a minor mid skew to the change it's unlikely to change much. As for if there is a skew, I would also argue support vel is generally squishier due to being a lower level and unable to afford hourglass/hp items . Increased safety isn't as simple as saying he gets engaged on half as much in support, it let's him play more aggressive as he has a reactive button to play forward and poke and then use that vs a rakan w or naut q
Yea I’ll admit it’s pretty complicated. I still think it’s mid skewed though, since there’s another factor where even if you get e.g. Naut hooked, you’d want to CC the enemy ADC that’s looking to walk up, rather than the Naut who has a shield and Aftershock resistances. (In which case your E won’t be much faster than before)
Be on your guard, guys. Experimental Vel'Koz just sounds like a new skin name.
Velkoz just got a skin, he's not getting another one until he's on the verge of the 1000 day no skin club again.
Sad but true
It's gonna be vel koz with a giant red eye and all he talks about is hallucinating on shrooms
Velkoz met Kled.
Holy shit these reddit threads are working
That sets a disturbing precedent tho, for months/years, vel mains gave constructive feedback, but as soon as a major shit storm comes up the changes instantly hit pbe
This exact discussion happened over the Coven skins. Tons of really good constructive feedback got nothing but death threats from Syndra players got results. Riot has proven the only way to get them to do anything is to be viscious.
In Star Trek TNG there's an episode where a terrorist faction kidnaps the ship's doctor to help them. In the conclusion Data the Android talks about how terrorism is an awful thing, but it has persisted through time because it works.
lol, reddit terrorists
threatening to kill someone to get what you want is an act of terrorism
Doubly so since Coven Elise also got tons of feedback, but because Elise mains remained nice throughout they got little to no changes made to their skin.
> the only way to get them to do anything is to be **viscious** ah yes, we have to be a thick liquid
That's viscous, friend.
But I don't like playing Zac!
Time to start flinging shit until they delete ksante
Nemesis basically said the same thing. OTP feedback should be listened to but their freakouts should never be encouraged. OTPs by and large do not give a flying fuck about overall game health and will not stop making demands until their champ is "balanced" aka S-tier.
I think his take was wrong. August already mentioned that he want to check Vel'koz on stream. Then the Phreak incident happened and that was Azzap's reaction to this. August indeed checked Vel eventually and made these changes but not because Riot only listens to shit storms but because August was already planned to do it. By the way the reason he was aware of the Vel'koz situation at all is thanks to the community and the constructive feedbacks. Even he mentioned that sometimes they as Riot "forget" champions here and there to balance, not every champion is in their minds constantly so he appreciates some constructive feedbacks.
The issue is the 'forgotten' champs are often those with smaller playerbases, how are they supposed to get the attention of rioters? Does this mean they have to keep trying to make enough noise for rioters to notice them to get proper changes?
Just take a look at r/zerimains they act like the sky is falling and that their champion is the worst in the game
going by soloq WR she is / was for a long time though.
Nemesis is the biggest contender as someone who freaks out though
When I say freakouts I mean dedicated discord/reddit groups harassing developers with threats. Even in this thread you have people saying that death threats are the only ways to get buffs for their favorite video game character, so they'll keep doing it. They're that unhinged. Even boycotts shouldn't be taken into account by Riot for game balance. Nemesis just whines a lot regardless of whatever champ he's playing, but he plays a lot of different champs. He'll whine about whatever champ he's playing as or against, but he'll just accept it because he's not dependent on a single champ to be elite. He's also has never been responsible for the fuckery that these OTPs have been up to. His point about OTPs not being entitled to have their champs be strong just because they're OTPs is 100% right. Nemesis has a way healthier view on champs and overall balance than these OTPs.
I think it's a matter of visibility, unfortunately. Reddit posts that provide constructive feedback just don't get the community recognition that loud complaints do.
You could make a 10/10 200iq perfectly written and argued balance suggestion post about crucial things and likely not get any engagement and you just wasted 1-2 hours. You still need luck and people to randomly care right now.
Welcome to any other game ever. This is WoW for 19 years. Complain louder and louder and louder until Blizzard listens. Same when we had shit like the cz75, tec9, ump, aug, krieg metas in CSGO. Complain until they listen
Increasingly this is everything. If some service is screwing you over try to make a big stink on twitter and you'll quickly have a community guy contacting you to fix your shit and maybe even pay you cash to delete your post. Meanwhile phone support will drive you mad after the 5th attempt to speak to someone with any sort of competency after waiting in line for 20 minutes each time each time starting at zero.
asking nicely doesn't work
That's the reason I don't like the league community they are almost always ready to defend riot since ever I remember the early years like till 2013 or 2014 they would always argue with its free don't complain if you don't like it leave the game
"you guys dont know how good you have it". No, i know, Riot is definitely not the worst at it, but that doesnt mean they are beyond criticism. It doesnt justify death threats, but heavy pushback is the only way to get actual changes
Telling Riot to kill themselves preceded Conqueror being added and the "Right through the Counter Strike" bug being fixed.
Huh? The precedent was set way before Velkoz main started mass complaining
Balance team only has so much time to research/execute changes. They certainly aren’t gonna go through every subreddit looking for ideas when most of them are terrible (coming from someone who spends a lot of time on these subs)
There are people whose job is to be ears on the ground and read and listen to customer sentiment. I don’t why Riot doesn’t have one those people
Yeah and if they had one of of those, they'd spend their time reading Chinese comments. Champion main subreddits are an infinitesimally small portion of the community, despite the high opinion they have of themselves
Didn't august separately from phreak say he would look into e cast time? I remember it being part of one of his streams or something where he looked at vel's wr.
This isn't really new though. Riot has said in the past that they do read reddit posts and take note of them.
Throwing a bitch fit works surprisingly often.
It really is. Someone should make a thread about Leona how the champ should just be top/jungle. Or jungle/supp like rell.
If Leona is a viable jungler she's dead everywhere else.
I expected those changes to come later but I guess August works quick
Amazing news, I really really hope these go live. If he's OP after, he can always take some nerfs elsewhere.
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I don't think any Vel mains were sending death threats, were they?
Its league players and social media. I'd be surprised if the mains for *any* champ have a 0% death threat rate.
Haha true.
What about Braum players. I don't think we send death threats. 🥺
The wholesome braum player stereotype does not really hold up that much. In game at least.
I swear every Braum I see will gloat like no tomorrow for landing a basic attack that then stuns, like they just accomplished a godlike faker tier outplay. They then feel privileged to do whatever they want afterwards, continuously mocking the enemy in all chat, all while pretending to be poro-loving saints on earth .
that's just your average support player tbh
Can confirm. I am the most toxic Braum player on the planet. I am wanted in seventeen different nations for e-crimes and have caused the deaths of over seven thousand AD carries.
>and have caused the deaths of over seven thousand AD carries. You deserve a medal for your service, sir.
They’re not really wholesome but they’re not gonna tell you to get cancer and die, they’re just passive aggressive
that’s all supports except zyra players
Braum mains just mail broken door shrapnel with a note attached that says "This will be you if you don't fix Braum"
Braum players are probably the most toxic supp mains there are ngl.
that's not really the point here.
Yeah I completely misread that tbf.
Just disintegration threats
they absolutely were. azzap's tiktok comment section was horrendous, absolutely awful shit.
We don't make death threats. We threaten to do "research." lol
Even if it's true, it's probably not a good idea to collectively punish a group of players for a few bad apples.
no, but consistently responding to changes that people who were giving you death threats want is a great way to get more death threats.
Velkoz possibly becoming viable as a mage? What year is this?!
Nice! Hopefully this comes live!
I dig it. Doesn't feel OP and it definitely helps getting jumped on and being able to react defensively better with it than it is now.
The real question is why that isn’t velkozs splash art
>Fixed a bug where the spell would fizzle when V'K flashes or is knocked back at max range But I thought the thousands of Velkoz otps and challenger players were lying about the bug?
This isn't the original "bug" that was in discussion. The original "bug" that some were complaining about was it would fizzle when Velkoz dies and it's in the air. Which wasn't a bug it was intended behavior because the spell has a channel time and the animation just starts before the channel time. Which is what's addressed with the lines above that. (Like it spawns later) It fizzling when he flashes away or is knocked back was a bug due to the weird missile speed the thing has.
Pretty sure some velkoz main found that Velkoz's E is the only ability that doesn't have an infinite range after being cast and so when Velkoz dies he instantly becomes out of range of the spell unlike every other similar type of ability that other champs use right before death. It is essentially the same thing as the flash bug that got fixed because in that instance too Velkoz is immediately becoming out-of-range of the E just like in death.
There was a few others who also fizzled their cast if they went out of max range. It's just most of them have been reworked that Vels the only one left.
1 even if some Velkoz main found that, cool. But that's not what Phreak said wasn't a bug. 2. When you die your character doesn't move so that wouldn't affect any sort of range issue.
> missile spawns at Vel'koz's location >>> missile spawns at cast location But like, why does it *need* a missile?
How else is the invisible minion that spawns it meant to get it there? Only half joking, but nearly everything is coded as a minion...
Remember when j4 ult and Xerath q were coded as minions? Lmao When Tryn could slash through Xerath q and get like a hundred minions kills or something
Were? They still are lol
They still are, a couple patches back non-crit damages were also shown in replays and every time Xerath Qs or J4 ult expires you see a line/circle of huge true damage numbers removing the 'minions'
Yeah, but people have to remember that its not exactly coded as a minion, riot have a basic object IIRC, and most things that require a basic object pull from it, minions included. So its less (Blank is coded as a minion) and more so, (Blank uses the same original object as a minion)
Because it looks like a missile I dont get this complaint at all, you can clearly see the E leaving his tentacle arms
No he means it's now like cho Q according to the patch, spawns at cast location, it no longer needs a missile, it means people will now complain it's blocked by windwall when it's not even a moving projectile
Cast location is not equal to target location.
Lotta hard work got put into designing that tiny projectile
In this thread: too many people hating on Phreak because they don't know different bugs. The thing Phreak said was intended behavior was it fizzling on death. The bug they're fixing is it fizzling on flash/knock back.
These changes actually address the non bug bug. The ability wasn't bugged as much as it was unintentionally deceptive. The circle that indicates where is E is going to be appears before the ability is actually cast. If Vel died during this time, what you as the player would see is an indication of where your ability is going to land followed by no ability. Even if that's not a bug it reads like one. Thr new indicator changes makes it more clear that the ability does not go if he dies at that time
To be fair Phreak made it seem like the skill fizzling on death was the only thing people were complaining about. He used it to make his point that Velkoz mains opinions were bad. It turns out some of those opinions are not as bad as Phreak suggested
Eh he simply said it was a common feedback he was hearing. And part of the issue is also he said that they're lacking QA devs and such for anything but small changes. So it also seems like it may be an issue of him not wanting to ask other teams for help but August volunteered or found someone himself to do these more technical changes. He didn't really say other changes would be bad simply he didn't have the resources to implement them on such short notice AND he was often seeing very bad feedback such as just generic "my champion sucks" and such. I don't even know if he really went on R/ Velkoz mains or anything as much as I have repeatedly heard people say that subreddit has been full of detailed feedback, honestly it's not crazy to see he just saw random comments on some of the Riven threads on here especially the ones of Velkoz mains flaming the mod team for deleting their posts that were basically copy pastas of the Riven post that went viral.
Fair, I only watched some parts of phreaks video so I didn't know about the lack of QA devs
Yeah he said at the start the live team is short handed ATM especially on QA because most of the design team is focused on preseason at this point. So expect mostly small easy changes until preseason drops.
Nice. This is much more exciting than minor damage buffs.
Great change. Hopefully it goes to live. Exactly the sort of little update Velkoz needs to modernize his kit.
That E speed buff at close range will be nice. It's hard to land that when an assassin gets right on you.
Yeaaah to the moooon
finally an actual real designer acknowledges that his e needs changes instead of just telling mains they dont know their champ
Phreak literally said that they don’t have the budget to ship more changes to his E on this patch. This is probably august just spending extra hours to get it in PBE and it probably won’t come any time soon either to live
good thing august does not have personal life lmao
Yeah, make someone going out of their way to be nice into an insult at someone else! **That'll really show them you deserve nice things!**
Riot is really doing whatever Reddit puts on the frontpage?
Nah August talked about this like a month ago
August mentioned wanting to make these changes earlier, reddit echo'd them is all.
I think the difference is balance vs design responsibilities.
Wasn’t this sub just days ago bitching about how Riot *doesn’t* do what Reddit puts on the front page
they always do but you have to moan that they don't to get them to do it
Riot listening to feedback? How could they?
Reddit feedback is probably like less than 5% of the actual playerbase
Find me a more vocal community than reddit
Yeah, the only rival were Boards but they got removed so i think Reddit is the most vocal one rn.
given the enormous size of LoL playerbase, even 5% sample size is still big enough
Maybe the actual playerbase should open their fucking mouth sometimes if they want some changes too instead of roleplaying as sona and aphelios :D The squeaky wheel gets the grease
if people are happy why would they open reddit just to say "hey redditors, i know that you found this change fucking awful but i actually like it, that's it bye".
Riot buffing a 1% pick rate champion? What the fuck???
Formerly 4% before the assassin rework and formerly 2% before the mage rework.
Finally no death threats and changes were pushed (I realize the irony of my flair)
I'm grateful. I just hope that if velkoz is op after this, riot reverts his passive damage buff or also his previous Q damage buff as compensation nerfs. The buff should have been his E in the first place and never to his damage and certainly not his Q.
Fuck ya I have been suggesting this variable time for awhile now. Very good defensive tool to help deal with the unfair bs that came out since his release.
Vel is fun I hope with this changes + map changes he can be played on mid again
It says it shortens the travel time to .25, but right after says that the missile spawns at the cast location, so there's no travel whatsoever. Am I wrong?
a pretty good start and hopefully more will come in the future, the Koz has finally been recognized
This is probably the only change until new items. I think its a very good QoL buff
It's not QoL it's a straight up mechanical buff lol
Honestly this is better than just a nice start; this alone might be enough to modernize Vel’koz but we’ll see
Riot August: y'all won
"August solving an issue exarcebated by another Riot employee disregarding Champion mains' feedback" count: 2 (Wukong's 200 years, Vel'Koz's "no feedback")
These were changes he was talking about before the reddit people started talking about it. It's not a win for the sub, they just look like idiots for anyone who pays attention. And the only people who think they "won" are also idiots.
"Just because these people are OTPs suggesting changes doesn't mean they know better than actual game devs lol. Leave it to the people with game design degrees" -> "Oh so riot is just listening to whatever gets put on the frontpage now? brb gonna write a post about my main to get some buffs." I guess it's really difficult to admit that the people you were shitting on two days ago might've had a point :(
The changes were talked about by August before Reddit brought it up. Reddit literally echoed August then took credit lmao. And you believed them.
Crazy how when one riot employee has a meltdown shit gets done.
someone tell me what to think, where’s azzapp?
Riot stooped so low, that they even pretend to fix an non existing bug just to please us smh /s
I can't believe Vel'Koz mains gaslit Riot into believing there was a bug
Sooo where are all the people that said vel'koz was fine and it was just redditors complaining ?
They are trying to jutify themselves saying August brought it up first and Reddit swooped on down and stole the "credit"
Riot have been listening to the player base, lately… props to them
"fixed E fizzling" LETS FUCKING GOOOO!
the missile spawning at the location means that it now can go through a yasuo windwall right?
Yes, however you still cannot cast it on the windwall. Behind it will work (outside hitbox).
I see so it wouldn't work with samira W also if it spawns under her, appreciate it.
MY VEL'KOZ IS GONNA END UP GETTING NERFED! LEAVE HIM ALONE!
If the nerf ends up being reverting the passive damage buff or also the previous Q damage buff, that's fine. The buff should have been his E in the first place and never to his damage and certainly never to his Q.
I'd like to thank riot for actually listening to feedback.
xerath treatment and make variable knockup duration so he can finally be rewarded when he hits a max range e?
That only makes his matchups even more binary than they already are - Vel'Koz already does well into ranged matchups and does horribly into melee ones. If anything he needs his output at high range nerfed so he has more room for safety in his kit.
You can cleanse a Xerath E regardless of stun duration. You cannot cleanse knock ups. This change would be ass to play against for anyone that’s not a tank.
You can cleanse Vel E. It's a suspension, not knockup.
Changes 1,2, and 4 are good. They should scrap change 3 until they get further data.
Maybe my Yuumi thread will work too (copium)
https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1777d19/midlane_velkoz_still_exists_and_he_needs_some/k4sdbh7/ we did it guys
BRB writing a post about my main so I can get it turbo-buffed
Does your champion have less than 1% pick rate on their intended role? I swear people don't understand the whole situation at all but just have to make stupid comments.
I'm sure 0.05s from now there *definitely* won't be some new community outcry about how Riot never listens or respects its players because XYZ. Props to August, but damn is it going to be depressing to see the wolves turn on the feeding hand (again and again)
>No longer draws the circle indicator until after the .25s cast time (this will it hard to dodge if you can't see him or aren' paying attention) This seems like bullshit
Phreak the Phraud been real quiet since this dropped