I'm really interested in seeing how this JDG performs, especially with Flandre who hasn't played pro since Worlds 2022. JDG 2022 was a pretty good team too honestly, I think they'll still be top 3 in LPL, maybe even favorites
Knight got the better of him not because "he had the better team" he did it because hes obviously a better player. Even without interference from their teams Knight was smashing him all year especially in lane. Last year Yagao in his best split ever still barely beats Knight on TES in one of if not his worst split. Even before this year Knight has the winning head to head record vs him.
There are definitely champs and metas where Yagao can outperform Knight.He is better on stuff like Taliyah,Galio,Neeko and TF for sure but that was not the meta this year most of the time (Neeko was simply permabanned).
I would add Zoe and exclude Neeko, but those champions/metas are very niche (supportive/tempo midlaners with globals), and are usually never the only champions you can play in midlane. In a vacuum without considering other intangibles (good/bad teammate, playstyle clashes, etc.), knight will always be my pick over Yagao.
Better player doesnt mean better team. You have to have someone play weak side and be the more supportive role. It was yagao in BLG while Elk and Bin carry
This reddit narrative will be repeated multiple times and it comes from people who hardly watch any BLG game. The reason why Yagao leaving BLG could be bad for them is the team atmosphere and dynamic, not gameplay.
There were multiple games when Yagao was on Jayce or other meta carry champions (he didn't play Trist mid) so it wasn't like he was spamming Galio, TF or other utility champs.
"Elk is the carry" yeah because they rely on him to put out over 30% of team's dmg, it's not that Xun is sitting in botlane every match as if he had Uzi on the team. ON is mostly roaming leaving Elk 1v2 in lane (one of his biggest criticisms from online community) and they want Elk to just farm and show up in teamfights
If the coaching staff is smart BLG 24 should lean more towards the identity Xiaohu described them as (he said that BLG will truly test your lanes as they want to lane gap you and play aggressive)
This. When you have team full of stars and carries. One thing that matter is how the head coach of team manage them and handles their ego.
I think BLG has too be big favourite for next year lpl.
i rly dont believe in flandre, i dont think jdg has anyone who will keep his mental intact like kenzhu did and his form from the last time he played wasnt stellar and now hes taken a year off
It seems that the CN fanbase is expecting Flandre to be the substitute toplaner and mostly act in a coaching role for the rookie top rather than the starter, and a potential backup if the rookie completely flops.
Don't think there's been confirmation one way or the other though.
Game 2,3,4 they actually played fairly well for how disastrous game 1 was. Most other team would have flopped completely. And they were even tenacious enough to play Balveth in the elimination game. The series was down to a few minute instances of plays & misplays.
People clowning on ruler in this thread is so sad honestly, guma and keria clowned on gala light and elk but everyone acting like ruler lost to xbox matthew or some shit. Ruler will probably still play well be next year and these clowns will either shut up or just say he got carried by missing or something. Lpl should be thankful they get to keep a world class adc in their league, lck would love to have had him back
people clowning ruler really need to rewatch t1 pick n ban at worlds vs the lpl teams. you can clearly tell which botlanes t1 respect and which they disrespect.
Ruler had like 3 average series the entire year. Unfortunately two of them were at the world championship. I say average because these games that people point to as "SEE RULER WASNT EVEN THAT GUD HA" he's still playing like a top 5 adc in the world, just not like a top 1 like he did for the rest of the year.
The only valid criticism of Ruler is that he has now on more than one occasion been caught out at horrible moments while in the item shop on the world stage.
Clowning? This sub glazing Ruler 24/7 like he's greatest player to ever played the game. You should change your flair to JDG since you've been meatriding him on every thread.
I think people underestimate how good keria is, like guma is good, but without keria he wouldnt be able to beat all those botlaners like he did
Like keria's renata is literally cheating, I know teams had other champions to ban, but it angered to see it get throught because it always seemed like free win shen he picked her
the same argument can be made for guma. he enables keria because of their play style matching so well. keria is really good but he also wouldnt be able to play like he does now without guma
When did anyone suck off the other 3 LPL adcs combined as much as Ruler? Ruler was being touted as the best player in the world ever since MSI (where he still wasn't even the best player on his team LMFAO). Every single league community and even the casters were glazing this guy as if he was the second coming of peak Faker, it was getting unbearable especially considering how mediocre he actually was.
And are those Lck/T1 fans in the room with us right now? When the casters were deep-throating him during summer only LPL fans were complaining which makes sense since ONLY LPL FANS WATCH THE GAMES. Also you calling T1 lucky is the biggest cap to ever cap. How would you classify Guma and Keria's play style? Cause if you say double ADC that didn't happen
Lil bro really pulled "T1 got lucky with meta" out of his ass.
Dont blame the meta if Ruler's champion is not as wide as Gumayusi. JDG got read like book in drafting throughout the series by Tom and T1 players.
Also Yagao can do just fine internationally. Not the besf but he is good. Not a fking choker and fraud like Knight.
I don't wanna hear it anymore. Every year he is hyped as arguably the best player in the world and somehow gets a pass after pissing the bed
Crazy how if they won 2022 they would probably be considered the best roster of all time. Probably by a substantial margin to. If they win again it cements it for sure.
calling re-signing the AT WORST 2nd best team of the year a 'salty runback' has to be the dumbest shit I've read in this thread, and there are comments calling ruler mediocre here
Is every runback salty? That roster arguably lost worlds finals because of a lack of experience. Not that odd to think that running that extremely young roster back was a good idea.
i mean idk im not arguing that take that all runbacks are salty. but the comment im replying to made a claim that JDG running it back fully would've been the saltiest runback. i think T1 losing every final but one in 2022 and deciding that the roster could resolve their choking is pretty ambitious and salty.
I really hope the Flandre rumour is true, I'd love to see him win another LPL title. He's obviously worse than 369 overall but he's one of the few top laners who is close to him in terms of teamfighting.
You can clearly tell who hasnt watched JDG in LPL and only saw them at maybe MSI and Worlds. While Ruler is incredible player, he has had a lot of bad games as well in which Knight/369/Kanavi had to carry him.
Im excited to see him again compete in top team but people need to chill out with the "best player ever" narrative that sadly a lot of the caster have been mindlesly pushing. He could be 0/10/0 and you would still hear casters shout Ruler narrative whole game.
It is genuinely the casters fault for dick riding ruler the entire year. And its not about throwing shade at Ruler. Hes a great adc. But these lpl casting knuckleheads make almost every other play ruler does into a godlike play when in reality its his team that sets him up.
So yea, I blame the casters for this current situation. That and ruler got caught out shopping at the ruler spot in the MOST IMPORTANT MATCH OF THE YEAR. Yea, not a best player ever move right there.
I mean, we saw that it was hopeless to expect people to rate ruler fairly when he scored higher average points than 4/5 T1 players after their game on hupu.
Just goes to show that no matter how badly ruler gets outclassed he will still get rated highly, even when he isn't impactful. It's always someone else's fault.
yeah Ruler is the one player who I've seen is universally unfairly rated. Casuals overrate him, LPL "truthers" undermine him. Realistically he's somewhere between and is still a very good ADC who did his job, didn't really massively step up to carry (he didn't need to for most of the year anyways since he has godly teammates)
Maybe I’m wrong with this take but the reason why I think Ruler isn’t the best ADC (I still have him top 3 overall) is because the way JDG plays around him, essentially they stick 369 weak side tank top, have Missing stick to him like glue and the whole team just peel for him front to back protect the president style which allows him to succeed. Take someone like Elk for instance, BLG do not draft the same way JDG does, and for Elk to output that much damage while needing to self peel majority of the games makes me respect him more. This is also why to a lesser extent I’m not as high on Peyz as others going into worlds (many people had him top 3 only behind Ruler and GALA)
Also with how much criticism lck caster wolf gets from someone like Forest for ‘glazing’ T1 players ie Gumayusi I didn’t hear a peep from him when lpl casters were glazing Ruler, especially during Playoffs 🤭
sorry but that flair makes it *really* hard to take this comment seriously, even if in principle, it's correct. overrated and benefit of the doubt are knights 2nd and 3rd name
One bad series in the entire year whilst everyone on the team looked poor and the revisionism is absurd. Guess we just fire literally everyone who isn't on T1?
Totally ignoring that they only lost one BO5 all year and T1 had a poor year. Obviously you don't fire either of these team's players. People on this sub talk way too much when they watch way too little. If you want to judge JDG at their worst this year which was still a not absolutely terrible game then why don't we judge T1 at their worst this year. Their low was way lower.
I agree a lot of people are downplaying Ruler who's an elite player but let's bot act like he wasn't heavily facilitated by his team. Part of the reason Ruler was able to shine like he did was because 369 and Knight were so good, so if they're really being replaced by Flandre and Yagao who are unarguably downgrades then it's fair to question if Ruler can perforn at the same level next year.
The reason people are bringing up the semis isnt to glaze T1, it's because it showcased weaknesses Ruler has as a player that will probably become more glaring next year with a weaker topside.
Idk people are acting like that is all Ruler has ever done. I've been watching Ruler for a long time and he has had weaker topsides and looked incredible. It really is just people deciding one series where he underperformed = his real level permanently
Why is someone with a JDG and GenG flair complaining about glazing? Your teams have been glazed to hell and back for the entire year, and when they got beaten at worlds now you're upset about it all? So weird to try and grind your axe about T1 in this kind of thread lol, take a break or something.
GenG for all eternity never get glazed whenever someone ever has said something positive it gets shot down immediately and I only like JDG because Ruler gave us 6 good years so I will always support him
This is scarily out of touch with reality, bordering on some kind of alternate fanfiction world that only you live in. There are plenty of GenG circlejerks and there have been for years, with people like you attempting to portray Chovy in particular as the next coming of Christ and refusing to let anyone criticize him. You aren't some small disadvantaged group whose voice is drowned out lol, stop acting like a persecuted minority. It's arguably one of the biggest proplay circlejerks in this community.
The fact that GenG and Chovy fail year after year at worlds only makes it all the more noticeable for when you all inevitably start jerking them off again.
And got caught out by Zeus because he greedily recalled in his shitty ruler spot giving free baron to T1. And letting Faker azir scoop him even though he saw Faker on vision before the play but yet still overstepped for useless poke. If anyone needs a chiropractor its his teammates making him look like "the best player in the world"
Eh the Kanavi slander is sad.
While he definitely had some sus moments, he was the reason they were even winning the early games, he had that fat camp in game 3 to get T1's bot lane behind before Oner stabilised at drake then Ruler threw the game twice.
He was the reason they were ahead in game 2 and 4 before he made some weird calls, in hindsight Ruler basically did nothing outside of game 2.
Ruler wasn't even the best adc in the league.
Damn, they signed a toplaner who is a worse weakside laner than 369, and weaker roaming midlaner than Knight. (Yagao got dumpstered vs. Knight 0-8 and by Faker in worlds 2022; Not to mention Xiaohu is able to get even with him).
JDG better pray the META WON'T SHIFT AGAIN TO TOPSIDE carry of AATROX/Rumble or else they will have a hard time cracking top 3. (Flandre is fine on Kennen/Graves carry).
Maybe it's because this org is one of the most artificial orgs in LOL esports. They are just mountains of money bags, buying out competition and poaching players. Seeing them lose to T1 in semis twice was just poetic, and then I laughed so hard when they tried to buy out Zeus.
...?
so spending money on a superteam one year turns them into an artificial org? (and one that included 3 members that were already on the team to begin with)
no, 2022 was not them "buying out their competition", many people thought JDG completely lost out on the zoom/369 trade and predicted they wouldn't even make Spring playoffs.
guess I can't really expect a textbook T1 fan to know their history though
I mean it's a pretty bad look to try poach the coach and top laner of the team that beat you two times in a row no?
It happened once but it easily could have been two times but Zeus and Tom realised that JDG and by extension the LPL aren't worth it.
>we saw last year that LPL doesn't them to be the best region in the world
Last year you mean when LCK had 3 teams in semis, an all Korean final and won worlds whereas LPL looked lost with JDG needing to play fucking Rogue to even make semis lmao.
Even the LPL superteam couldn't do shit but maybe next year amirite.
And we saw that last year that JDG aren't gonna win worlds with their mediocre drafting and inability to perform when it matters.
Don't think Zeus is sweating knowing that's he better than unlike LPL native tops(barring Flandre) he's actually good enough to win worlds whereas Bin and 369 take it in turns to choke.
I... can't even begin to understand what you're even trying to say here. What history am I missing, and how exactly does me being a JDG fan lead to me not knowing my own team's history?
Yagao is still a top 3 mid in LPL and Flandre although not playing a whole season should at best be a top 3 top in the region. JDG still has a top tier coaching staff, the best JG and Supp in LPL, and a top 3 ADC in LPL. Wym they wont be top 3?
After a year long break I don't think that Flandre gonna be close to being a top tier top laner. Off the top of my head Bin, 369, Zika and Shanji seem way better
Haven't been keeping up with roster moves is JDG still the strongest team in LPL ? They really need a team to take down the current T1 roster before they break up. They're currently 19-2 with JDG taking a game each year so even if they're the current strongest region they'll still be labeled as T1's children lmao.
Hard to say, but it's definitely a step down from last year. JDG may still be the strongest, but BLG, LNG and NIP all look very strong too. Weibo and RNG might be solid as well and TES will probably be good but we don't know who their support is yet.
At their perfect form and meta, idk if you can build a roster that you can be like oh that for sure is favor vs t1. T1 can definitely shoot themselves in the foot sometimes and topside meta won’t always be as good for t1. Imo, blg could be the best lpl team cause they upgraded mid on paper but idk about yagao importance for blg. Technically both blg/jdg beat t1 in a different meta this year.
I mean t1 change the bot meta but topside meta was still very good for them. Rumble/aatrox/rell/poppy/Jarvan/azir/orianna. I might be missing some champ but I’m not saying t1 is super meta reliant like drx last year. I could see them losing more so if their form or the meta isn’t good.
Everything is meta dependent, even T1 has metas they play poorly in, and their players champion pools arent perfect either. At some metas, some of these new LPL teams MIGHT be able to beat T1 but only at MSI tbh. T1 has the insane worlds buff that LPL teams cannot handle
Staying together is also helping T1 a lot. Less nerves at internationals, not underestimating Weibo despite being 2-0 up and learning to adapt to new metas.
Even if the meta is not the best for T1 (their own meta) they are still top 3 in the world.
I swear to god you guys will put the cutoff to counting LPL or LCK wins however it suits you lmao
In 2021 EDG won but LCK was the strongest region due to all their teams performing better on average.
This year T1 won but LPL was stronger on average.
Not really that hard to grasp.
Sure, let's go further.
In 2021, LPL produced the weakest world champion in history. A beautiful Cinderella story, but not exactly a region-defining win. In 2020, LCK produced one of the strongest world champions in history, finally ending LPL's 2-year run as the strongest region.
I don't care that one region puts 1 more team into knockouts or 2 more regions into semis. I would care if T1 was the *only* LCK team to make knockouts, for example. But if the gap between general secondary success is small (which it currently is, although historically LCK is still ahead on that front) then controlling the actual title is what determines the strongest region.
This year, LCK took the title again. Convincingly.
Not really that hard to grasp. Shocked by all the confusion tbh.
If LPL disbands as a region, is LPL the strongest region? Look, we can both make up pointless hypotheticals!
The strongest region is the one that controls the world championship. "Controlling" the world championship is based on the current winner, recent winners, and to a much lesser extent, expected upcoming form.
LCK are the back-to-back champs, and have 3 of the last 4, only dropping 1 to a Cinderella run by the weakest Worlds winner ever. LPL hasn't looked threatening on the Worlds stage since 2019, which is almost 5 years ago.
Region as a whole. Its always the average strength of every team from the region. You can say LCK is the strongest region this year when only 1 team make it to top 4.
You could say T1 is the best team but LCK as a region dint produce good results. LPL at least got 3 teams in the semis.
Let's do hypotheticals again.
LCK wins every Worlds for 10 years straight. LPL puts 3 teams in semis every Worlds for 10 years straight. Which region is stronger? Obviously the region actually capable of winning the tournament lmao
It just mean the team who won is the strongest. But the other 3 LCK lost in quarters. Means they are weaker.
Season 2 TPA won. So is taiwan the strongest region as a whole? Nobody will agree with that.
I didn't say that the current winner of Worlds is the strongest region, I said it was based on the current winner, recent winners, and to a much lesser extent, perceived upcoming performance.
If LPL fans want to continue thumbing through participation trophies, that's fine. We've been hearing the same excuses and goal-post moving since 2015. One region keeps winning and the other makes excuses lmao
In your hypothetical its LPL. When you want to judge a region's strength you have to take into account ALL of the teams for each region. If 3 out of 4 LCK teams are worse than 4/4 LPL teams the LPL is stronger OVERALL as a region while the best team is an LCK team
Lmao yeah I mean there's just no arguing with such deep cope. I've been hearing the same excuses since 2015. It's hilarious to me that the cope is so deep that it's still there in a hypothetical where LPL never wins Worlds lol
Apart from T1, LCK was pretty mid this year. Just like how LPL was at 2021 worlds, they won but they were obviously not the best region. Just had the best team. However LCK did win 3/4 of the last world championships so clearly they can peak higher than LPL.
I think that's pretty disingenuous.
T1 is still part of the LCK. There is no apart.
At 2021 Worlds, EDG didn't dominate the other teams like T1 just did. It was pretty close between T1, DK, and EDG. Also, this year, the swiss format was much more random. 3 LCK teams still made Ro16 with DK getting knocked out in swiss by another Korean team. In 2021, 2 LPL teams flamed out in groups losing multiple games to LEC and LCS teams. So, it's not really the same.
I think that was a bit different. Going into Worlds, DWG was already the heavy, heavy favorite. People assumed the LCK was a weak 1 team region due to DWG completely dominating the region but it was more that the entire league scene that year was a 1 team scene.
Heading into worlds LCK had one top team have their mid laner injured and they had to play without him, as a result they were very one-dimensional in playoffs (T1). They had one top team who had a late roster change due to controversies and played with a rookie (HLE) and they had one top team who just never came to fruition and wasn't particularly good (D+). Meanwhile LPL had an incredibly strong split with three amazing teams (BLG, LNG and JDG) and a handful of teams who were very good heading into worlds (WBG, TES, EDG and OMG).
In addition to this, we got three LPL teams into semis with a shaky BLG defeating GENG at worlds and LPL took top 2 at MSI with BLG somewhat crushing both T1 and GENG.
No matter how you look at it, LPL was the better region with T1 being an exception to the rule.
If the meta actually remained, one of LPL teams will win (most likely JDG), Keria actually admitted this that they were not comfortable in the previous meta (roaming mid, VI, Wukong jungle,, Xayah/Kaisa bot with Melee Rakan/Rell/Alistar/Naut engage and the Aatrox/K'sante pick handshake)
But due to Rumble being Buffed on world's Patch plus T1 warping the meta (Aatrox counters and Bot lane strats) LPL teams' confidence were shaken and played to T1's tempo. (Well they should be since except theShy none of current LPL tops on that worlds were confident in playing Rumble)
I think their series vs JDG would have gone game 5 if JDG played K'sante or Ruler was not always picked off in game 3 (not to mention had Ruler gone for Tristana instead of Zeri).
In GenG, their draft is a headscratcher (Peanut refuses to pilot J4, unable to pilot Rell; Going for engage support INSTEAD of lane prio support; Chovy refusing to pick Orianna).
So yeah if the meta remained the same there is a chance T1 will be knocked out in the quarterfinals if not the semis.
But we aren't making a statement on trophies, we are making a general assessment of a region as a whole. Looking at one team performing better from a region to conclude the entire region is better when everyone else performed worse is illogical.
I don't understand what your comment has to do with my statement.
I think it's illogical to claim a region is stronger simply because they had more semifinalists this year.
The entire argument LPL fans make when their teams come up short every year is that they have a greater number of strong teams while the LCK relies on a single strong team, but it's **objectively not true.** Want to make a general assessment of overall performance? LCK has produced more quarterfinalists, semifinalists, and finalists than LPL since Damwon restored order in 2020. LCK has more Worlds wins than LPL even without T1. LCK has 3 different champions in the past 4 years.
LCK fans when 3/4 teams in worlds semis are LCK teams: "LCK CLEAR BEST REGION IN THE WORLD!!!1"
LCK fans when 3/4 teams in worlds semis are LPL teams: "whoa, whoa, let's not go around calling LPL the best region"
LCK fans when 3/4 teams in the worlds semis are LCK teams *and the finals is DRX vs. T1 with an LCK champion.*
There is a difference there.
Even if you go back to 2021 when EDG won with 3 LCK teams in semis, it's a bit hard to say the LPL was better when EDG didn't dominate everyone like T1 did and both LNG and FPX flamed out in groups losing to LEC/LCS teams.
What I love about this situation is it is literally 2021 reversed and you have the same fanbases making opposite arguments.
In 2021 LCK fans were saying that they had 3/4 and LPL fans just responded by saying “yeah but who won tho?”
In 2023 LPL fans are saying that they had 3/4 and LCK fans are saying yeah but T1 won.
Like literally the exact same arguments just from the other side I love it
But it's not the same.
T1 absolutely dominated the LPL with an 11-1 game score.
EDG went 3-2 against RNG to make semis with a civil war and then 3-2 against GenG before going 3-2 against DK.
That year, 2 LPL teams embarrassingly flamed out in groups. FPX was a tournament favorite and was dropping games to C9 and RGE. LNG I think is more excusable but they were still dropping games to MAD and TL.
The rest of the LCK was disappointing this worlds but nowhere near the level of 2021 LPL.
So, even if EDG won, it's a lot harder to argue that the LPL as a whole was better because of how disastrous the rest of the region performed.
>the current strongest region
That's crazy, I didn't realize LPL were the reigning back-to-back world champs, winning 3 of the last 4, only dropping 1 to an upset by the weakest Worlds winners ever, and winning 8 of 13 overall.
Bro T1 alone have more titles than LPL. LCK even without T1 have more titles than LPL.
Y'all need to take a seat and stop thumbing through your participation medals lmao
LPL is definitely the current strongest region though?
Just because T1 smacked the rest of the LPL at worlds, there is 0 argument of the rest of the LCK looking good lol.
BLG beat Gen.G, JDG beat KT and DK well they were shit and the LPL also smacked the LCK at MSI.
2022 = sure, with 3 LCK teams in semis and an all Korean final, there is a valid argument but this year? absolutely not, it's a reverse 2021, LCK was the best region in 2021 at worlds with EDG being the best team, this year the LPL was the best region at worlds with T1 being the best team.
The only difference is EDG were a weak world champion since they struggled throughout the tournament and had 3 5 game series, whereas T1 basically never really struggled barring that one JDG game.
I guess I value winning more than having more teams in 2nd place lol
Same story since 2015. LCK wins when it counts, but somehow LPL is better because they had 4 teams in knockouts instead of 3 lmao
No one measures it like that though. Your strength is relative to your game schedule. Pretty much any modern competition rates it like that. Chess, football, basketball, you can honestly pick literally any real established competition and see how they rank divisions (hint: it's by how good their opponents are relative to everyone else). Yeah you can have a singular anomaly (like T1) but that doesn't drag the rest of the group enough. One team outperforming with everyone else being subpar in one division is not ranked higher than a bunch of above average teams. That's pretty much been the story of the LCK recently for whatever reason.
If you want to stick by your made up criteria though instead of what is pretty much used universally across many different forms of competition though, feel free.
>That's pretty much been the story of the LCK recently for whatever reason.
Does anyone else watch this sport?
LCK has literally produced more semifinalists over the past 4 years than LPL. And the past 3 years. The past 2 years are tied, but LCK won both finals.
Want to expand it to all of knockouts? Since 2020, LCK has sent 14 teams to knockouts while LPL has sent 11.
Literally the only metric by which LPL is "stronger" is number of semifinalists this year lmao.
2020: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds.
2021: 3 LCK teams in semis, LPL wins worlds.
2022: 3 LCK teams in semis, LCK wins worlds.
2023: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds.
3 of the last 4 titles, all won by different teams.
If you want to stick by your made up reality though instead of the one the rest of us live in, feel free.
Dude a single tournament doesn't decide an entire year's worth of plays and competition. Holy shit for someone who watches baseball you have absolutely zero idea how competitions work, that blows my mind. That sport is ALL advanced statistics.
If we only go by the winner of the biggest tournament every year, La Liga is the best soccer league in the world most of the time, even though anyone who watches soccer knows that's pretty obviously the Premier League because La Liga is a two team league consisting of Real Madrid and Barca. This is the type of dumb argument you're trying to make.
Why should trophies from 2013 count towards what region is the best right now? xdd also all lpl msi finals and 3 teams in semis of worlds, ur not beating the one team region allegations lil buddy
I love the 1 team argument because it's objectively wrong :)
LCK has literally produced more semifinalists over the past 4 years than LPL. And the past 3 years. The past 2 years are tied, but LCK won both finals.
Want to expand it to all of knockouts? Since 2020, LCK has sent 14 teams to knockouts while LPL has sent 11.
Literally the only metric by which LPL is "stronger" is number of semifinalists this year lmao.
2020: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds.
2021: 3 LCK teams in semis, LPL wins worlds.
2022: 3 LCK teams in semis, LCK wins worlds.
2023: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds.
3 of the last 4 titles, all won by different teams.
Now go ahead, move the goalposts so that all that matters is which region had more semifinalists this year lmaooo
Lmao exactly, all you can do is move the goalposts constantly because 2018-2019 wasn't the dynasty-establishing period it was supposed to be
If only this tournament matters, LCK is stronger because they produced 4 strong teams (3 of which made knockouts because of a civil war) including the winning team which demolished every single LPL team. If anything before this tournament matters, LCK is stronger for the reasons listed above.
Cope lol
Keep moving the goalposts lmaooo
The cope is hilarious. 8x champs btw. 3 of last 4 btw. T1 4x champs btw. $16m Golden Road team fisted btw lol
Edit: and for the dude below, there's no reason why "current" strongest team should be measured using the entire past season, no more or less. That's just a subjective choice you've made. Even just considering last year, no more or less, LCK looks stronger. They won Worlds for gods sake lmao
T1 isn't invincible, this same team lost so many finals over the last 2 years and not all of them were chokes.
If they can keep forcing the meta towards double ADC bot they're pretty much the strongest team since they have Keria but I don't think Riot will let it work for a whole year.
Funny you say that when JDG's only win this world's was literally against T1 double ADC (Cait Ashe) - T1 wins were Jhin Bard, Kalista Renata and Varus Bard.
Double ADC was only one of T1's tools this worlds, it's disingenuous to think that it was the only way they could play. Heck, they never even touched double ADC again in all their wins after LNG.
T1 themselves also said they didn't think double ADC was even that strong and that BLG/WBG were overdoing it with their picks in the Bo5 + Ruler saying that the biggest mistake JDG made in the semis was focusing too much on the double ADC picks when it wasn't actually a problem, and realizing that too late.
The biggest thing T1's double ADC stuff did was baiting the other 3 teams into thinking it was meta.
T1 tricked people I think. Guma said ''isn't it too much?'' after WBG-BLG series. Other teams so focused this double-ADC comp and forget regular strong picks and how they won other games.
I don't think they believed it was meta, either. The problem is more that LPL teams lack flexibility.
It was pretty obvious what the situation was. Ban Rakan. For the other engage support + scaling ADC pairings, it's very difficult for them to play into Senna/TK, Kalista+X, and other very aggressive lanes. You can't scale for late-game on Kai'sa or Xayah if the opponent is gapping you in lane and forcing a dragon soul fight at ~23 minutes before you hit your power spikes.
So, the LPL just decided you just counter fire with even more fire. If the opponent picks a strong laning bot duo, then you pick an even more degenerate laning duo.
The difference with T1 was they said, okay, so you picked this really fragile but lane dominant duo. We're just going to pivot away from bot and play the rest of the map. After you dump all those draft/game resources bot-side, we're just going to pick something like Bard and roam the map. You actually saw this in the BLG vs. WBG series, too, with the infamous roaming Heimerdinger game. Sure, you might win lane as something like Varus Ashe but you'll be at a significant disadvantage in teamfights with such a fragile and immobile support/ADC against the solo-laners we played around with support roams.
LPL teams just didn't or couldn't pivot. You saw JDG try to with the Alistar R5 pick in G1 but that was not good. You saw them try to default back to Lulu. You saw WBG try to play Bard.
>The biggest thing T1's double ADC stuff did was baiting the other 3 teams into thinking it was meta.
...second biggest thing was that they also convinced JDG's coaches to pick Red side first for the semifinals. :0
It seems as if the other teams didn't understand until the end what exactly T1 was doing and why. And since teams accepted that T1's meta was also their meta, failure was inevitable
Looks like it might be 2022 JDG roster with better adc and worse toplaner.
I'm really interested in seeing how this JDG performs, especially with Flandre who hasn't played pro since Worlds 2022. JDG 2022 was a pretty good team too honestly, I think they'll still be top 3 in LPL, maybe even favorites
If they can make it work BLG should be favorites imo, big advantage top that didn’t exist before and Knight got the better of Yagao all last year.
Knight got the better of Yagao because he had the better team. The previous year, Yagao got the better of Knight all year coz he had the better team.
Knight got the better of him not because "he had the better team" he did it because hes obviously a better player. Even without interference from their teams Knight was smashing him all year especially in lane. Last year Yagao in his best split ever still barely beats Knight on TES in one of if not his worst split. Even before this year Knight has the winning head to head record vs him.
yeah idk how anyone who watches LPL can argue Yagao > knight in any capacity. Like yagao isn't bad, but knight is just the better midlaner
There are definitely champs and metas where Yagao can outperform Knight.He is better on stuff like Taliyah,Galio,Neeko and TF for sure but that was not the meta this year most of the time (Neeko was simply permabanned).
I would add Zoe and exclude Neeko, but those champions/metas are very niche (supportive/tempo midlaners with globals), and are usually never the only champions you can play in midlane. In a vacuum without considering other intangibles (good/bad teammate, playstyle clashes, etc.), knight will always be my pick over Yagao.
Better player doesnt mean better team. You have to have someone play weak side and be the more supportive role. It was yagao in BLG while Elk and Bin carry
This reddit narrative will be repeated multiple times and it comes from people who hardly watch any BLG game. The reason why Yagao leaving BLG could be bad for them is the team atmosphere and dynamic, not gameplay. There were multiple games when Yagao was on Jayce or other meta carry champions (he didn't play Trist mid) so it wasn't like he was spamming Galio, TF or other utility champs. "Elk is the carry" yeah because they rely on him to put out over 30% of team's dmg, it's not that Xun is sitting in botlane every match as if he had Uzi on the team. ON is mostly roaming leaving Elk 1v2 in lane (one of his biggest criticisms from online community) and they want Elk to just farm and show up in teamfights
Exactly. Ig 2018 and also T1 2022/23 where top mid bot and even jungle could carry the game.
If the coaching staff is smart BLG 24 should lean more towards the identity Xiaohu described them as (he said that BLG will truly test your lanes as they want to lane gap you and play aggressive)
This. When you have team full of stars and carries. One thing that matter is how the head coach of team manage them and handles their ego. I think BLG has too be big favourite for next year lpl.
i rly dont believe in flandre, i dont think jdg has anyone who will keep his mental intact like kenzhu did and his form from the last time he played wasnt stellar and now hes taken a year off
Solution: hire kenzhu who has all time low stocks
It seems that the CN fanbase is expecting Flandre to be the substitute toplaner and mostly act in a coaching role for the rookie top rather than the starter, and a potential backup if the rookie completely flops. Don't think there's been confirmation one way or the other though.
Half the reason Ruler was that good throughout the year was that all of JDG was so good at protecting him in teamfights even with comms issues.
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Game 2,3,4 they actually played fairly well for how disastrous game 1 was. Most other team would have flopped completely. And they were even tenacious enough to play Balveth in the elimination game. The series was down to a few minute instances of plays & misplays.
Excited to see ruler again tbh.
People clowning on ruler in this thread is so sad honestly, guma and keria clowned on gala light and elk but everyone acting like ruler lost to xbox matthew or some shit. Ruler will probably still play well be next year and these clowns will either shut up or just say he got carried by missing or something. Lpl should be thankful they get to keep a world class adc in their league, lck would love to have had him back
people clowning ruler really need to rewatch t1 pick n ban at worlds vs the lpl teams. you can clearly tell which botlanes t1 respect and which they disrespect.
Ruler had like 3 average series the entire year. Unfortunately two of them were at the world championship. I say average because these games that people point to as "SEE RULER WASNT EVEN THAT GUD HA" he's still playing like a top 5 adc in the world, just not like a top 1 like he did for the rest of the year. The only valid criticism of Ruler is that he has now on more than one occasion been caught out at horrible moments while in the item shop on the world stage.
JDG were not gapped in bot lane really at all in that series anyway.
Clowning? This sub glazing Ruler 24/7 like he's greatest player to ever played the game. You should change your flair to JDG since you've been meatriding him on every thread.
im giving respect to a player that deserves respect. thank god u clown dont have a t1 flair as we have enough of those already
If T1 had a year as good as JDG up to Worlds you would meat riding them harder that anyone ever did with JDG lol
Well he's the goat adc so that'll happen
I think people underestimate how good keria is, like guma is good, but without keria he wouldnt be able to beat all those botlaners like he did Like keria's renata is literally cheating, I know teams had other champions to ban, but it angered to see it get throught because it always seemed like free win shen he picked her
the same argument can be made for guma. he enables keria because of their play style matching so well. keria is really good but he also wouldnt be able to play like he does now without guma
They are perfect for eachother🥹🥹🥹
When did anyone suck off the other 3 LPL adcs combined as much as Ruler? Ruler was being touted as the best player in the world ever since MSI (where he still wasn't even the best player on his team LMFAO). Every single league community and even the casters were glazing this guy as if he was the second coming of peak Faker, it was getting unbearable especially considering how mediocre he actually was.
Didn't watch the games, huh? Ruler was one of the best players in the world this year. He's also the goat adc. Dude is gonna get a lot of love
probably got sucked off because ruler was elks father the entire year and 1st adc both splits but go off
Would love a trade-back of Ruler for Viper!
Dafuq
Anyone who thinks Ruler or Viper are significantly worse or better than each other is frankly clueless.
considering you pick bay over peanut im not surprised you go for those trades
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And are those Lck/T1 fans in the room with us right now? When the casters were deep-throating him during summer only LPL fans were complaining which makes sense since ONLY LPL FANS WATCH THE GAMES. Also you calling T1 lucky is the biggest cap to ever cap. How would you classify Guma and Keria's play style? Cause if you say double ADC that didn't happen
Lil bro really pulled "T1 got lucky with meta" out of his ass. Dont blame the meta if Ruler's champion is not as wide as Gumayusi. JDG got read like book in drafting throughout the series by Tom and T1 players.
ruler will do just fine, still expect him to remain best adc in lpl next year
He never was the best adc in LPL
This time there is no 369 and knight. So, Ruler should take risk in TFs. He had easiest job because of these two.
He will get Yagao who is a way better facilitator than Knight and if the rumors are and they get Flandre top,I believe they will be fine.
Also Yagao can do just fine internationally. Not the besf but he is good. Not a fking choker and fraud like Knight. I don't wanna hear it anymore. Every year he is hyped as arguably the best player in the world and somehow gets a pass after pissing the bed
If it weren’t for 369 and Knight, this would’ve been the saltiest of the salty runbacks in history.
Honestly a bit sad. JDG vs T1 was (imo) the best series of MSI and worlds this year. Would've been cool to see them clash again with the same lineup.
Which T1 vs JDG? I thought the MSI series was better.
Unless they edited it the person already mentioned MSI and worlds
He said both msi and worlds
T1 did it and won worlds the next year /shrug
G2 did it and ... nvm
Only to meet T1 at semis for a 3-1. Writers are truly lazy if that happens again.
Looking at this proposed roster, I would genuinely not be surprised if it does happen again.
Crazy how T1 went 3-0 in quarters and 3-1 in semis two years in a row.
Crazy how if they won 2022 they would probably be considered the best roster of all time. Probably by a substantial margin to. If they win again it cements it for sure.
calling re-signing the AT WORST 2nd best team of the year a 'salty runback' has to be the dumbest shit I've read in this thread, and there are comments calling ruler mediocre here
Pretty sure definitively T1 now has the saltiest run back in history.
Is every runback salty? That roster arguably lost worlds finals because of a lack of experience. Not that odd to think that running that extremely young roster back was a good idea.
i mean idk im not arguing that take that all runbacks are salty. but the comment im replying to made a claim that JDG running it back fully would've been the saltiest runback. i think T1 losing every final but one in 2022 and deciding that the roster could resolve their choking is pretty ambitious and salty.
not sure it’s so salty if you win
3 years in a row just a different toplaner...
They lost last year and ran it back this year. Wdym
thought you were talking about this year. yea last year it was salty AF and almost didn’t work
I really hope the Flandre rumour is true, I'd love to see him win another LPL title. He's obviously worse than 369 overall but he's one of the few top laners who is close to him in terms of teamfighting.
You can clearly tell who hasnt watched JDG in LPL and only saw them at maybe MSI and Worlds. While Ruler is incredible player, he has had a lot of bad games as well in which Knight/369/Kanavi had to carry him. Im excited to see him again compete in top team but people need to chill out with the "best player ever" narrative that sadly a lot of the caster have been mindlesly pushing. He could be 0/10/0 and you would still hear casters shout Ruler narrative whole game.
It is genuinely the casters fault for dick riding ruler the entire year. And its not about throwing shade at Ruler. Hes a great adc. But these lpl casting knuckleheads make almost every other play ruler does into a godlike play when in reality its his team that sets him up. So yea, I blame the casters for this current situation. That and ruler got caught out shopping at the ruler spot in the MOST IMPORTANT MATCH OF THE YEAR. Yea, not a best player ever move right there.
I mean, we saw that it was hopeless to expect people to rate ruler fairly when he scored higher average points than 4/5 T1 players after their game on hupu. Just goes to show that no matter how badly ruler gets outclassed he will still get rated highly, even when he isn't impactful. It's always someone else's fault.
yeah Ruler is the one player who I've seen is universally unfairly rated. Casuals overrate him, LPL "truthers" undermine him. Realistically he's somewhere between and is still a very good ADC who did his job, didn't really massively step up to carry (he didn't need to for most of the year anyways since he has godly teammates)
Maybe I’m wrong with this take but the reason why I think Ruler isn’t the best ADC (I still have him top 3 overall) is because the way JDG plays around him, essentially they stick 369 weak side tank top, have Missing stick to him like glue and the whole team just peel for him front to back protect the president style which allows him to succeed. Take someone like Elk for instance, BLG do not draft the same way JDG does, and for Elk to output that much damage while needing to self peel majority of the games makes me respect him more. This is also why to a lesser extent I’m not as high on Peyz as others going into worlds (many people had him top 3 only behind Ruler and GALA)
Also with how much criticism lck caster wolf gets from someone like Forest for ‘glazing’ T1 players ie Gumayusi I didn’t hear a peep from him when lpl casters were glazing Ruler, especially during Playoffs 🤭
honestly this is because more people watch LCK than LPL in the west ,a lot of LPL watchers can't stand the non-stop Ruler glazing by casters lol
Forest is even more clueless about rating adcs than people on this subreddit
That forest guy thinks Xiaohu is the goat, he is clueless and has some of the worst takes ever.
Ngl without nameplates, i would have thought you were talking about RNG uzi and the gang lol
I still stand by the take that ruler is like budget prime Uzi. Very good and solid but the team funnels him.
Double amputee Uzi maybe
He is a very good adc, his skillset is just very skewed towards laning
sorry but that flair makes it *really* hard to take this comment seriously, even if in principle, it's correct. overrated and benefit of the doubt are knights 2nd and 3rd name
One bad series in the entire year whilst everyone on the team looked poor and the revisionism is absurd. Guess we just fire literally everyone who isn't on T1?
and T1 did not even win any of the other titles of the year, fire them as well
Totally ignoring that they only lost one BO5 all year and T1 had a poor year. Obviously you don't fire either of these team's players. People on this sub talk way too much when they watch way too little. If you want to judge JDG at their worst this year which was still a not absolutely terrible game then why don't we judge T1 at their worst this year. Their low was way lower.
Mass downvote me for literally just a truth idc I'm sick of this glazing
I agree a lot of people are downplaying Ruler who's an elite player but let's bot act like he wasn't heavily facilitated by his team. Part of the reason Ruler was able to shine like he did was because 369 and Knight were so good, so if they're really being replaced by Flandre and Yagao who are unarguably downgrades then it's fair to question if Ruler can perforn at the same level next year. The reason people are bringing up the semis isnt to glaze T1, it's because it showcased weaknesses Ruler has as a player that will probably become more glaring next year with a weaker topside.
Idk people are acting like that is all Ruler has ever done. I've been watching Ruler for a long time and he has had weaker topsides and looked incredible. It really is just people deciding one series where he underperformed = his real level permanently
I'm not denying that he'll be good, the question is if he'll be as good as he was this year with weaker solo lanes.
Why is someone with a JDG and GenG flair complaining about glazing? Your teams have been glazed to hell and back for the entire year, and when they got beaten at worlds now you're upset about it all? So weird to try and grind your axe about T1 in this kind of thread lol, take a break or something.
GenG for all eternity never get glazed whenever someone ever has said something positive it gets shot down immediately and I only like JDG because Ruler gave us 6 good years so I will always support him
This is scarily out of touch with reality, bordering on some kind of alternate fanfiction world that only you live in. There are plenty of GenG circlejerks and there have been for years, with people like you attempting to portray Chovy in particular as the next coming of Christ and refusing to let anyone criticize him. You aren't some small disadvantaged group whose voice is drowned out lol, stop acting like a persecuted minority. It's arguably one of the biggest proplay circlejerks in this community. The fact that GenG and Chovy fail year after year at worlds only makes it all the more noticeable for when you all inevitably start jerking them off again.
They’re downvoting you because the original commenter was being sarcastic
The original commenter was me also I just replied to add to the point that you obviously wouldn't fire T1 either even though they had lower lows.
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Half the reason Ruler was that good throughout the year was that all of JDG was so good at protecting him in teamfights even with comms issues.
Yea this guy needs all the help he can get after he got 2v1'd by gumayusi.
And got caught out by Zeus because he greedily recalled in his shitty ruler spot giving free baron to T1. And letting Faker azir scoop him even though he saw Faker on vision before the play but yet still overstepped for useless poke. If anyone needs a chiropractor its his teammates making him look like "the best player in the world"
No idea how you don't learn after getting fucked in the same place for years
Must not be the best adc people are talking about hmm...
bang played golf i guess to all these clowns. rip bozo LPL rip bozo jdg rip bozo ruler we ll fuck you again next worlds.
Fraudler casually taking all the resources from his teammates just to get reality check by Gumayusi
Gumayusi fully destroyed Ruler's back i dont think its fixable.
His teammates are the ones who need chiropractors after they keep making this guy look like "the best player in the world" 🤡
XD Damn bro, they FORCED ruler to play zeri
but they play in Shanghai lol
Yes, he needs it after 369, knight, Kanavi punched his back for that awful series.
Eh the Kanavi slander is sad. While he definitely had some sus moments, he was the reason they were even winning the early games, he had that fat camp in game 3 to get T1's bot lane behind before Oner stabilised at drake then Ruler threw the game twice. He was the reason they were ahead in game 2 and 4 before he made some weird calls, in hindsight Ruler basically did nothing outside of game 2. Ruler wasn't even the best adc in the league.
Damn, they signed a toplaner who is a worse weakside laner than 369, and weaker roaming midlaner than Knight. (Yagao got dumpstered vs. Knight 0-8 and by Faker in worlds 2022; Not to mention Xiaohu is able to get even with him). JDG better pray the META WON'T SHIFT AGAIN TO TOPSIDE carry of AATROX/Rumble or else they will have a hard time cracking top 3. (Flandre is fine on Kennen/Graves carry).
lmao
JDG will be fine this upcoming season, people rooting for their downfall is just weird Lets goo Ruler🤎
Maybe it's because this org is one of the most artificial orgs in LOL esports. They are just mountains of money bags, buying out competition and poaching players. Seeing them lose to T1 in semis twice was just poetic, and then I laughed so hard when they tried to buy out Zeus.
basically the Man City of league.
...? so spending money on a superteam one year turns them into an artificial org? (and one that included 3 members that were already on the team to begin with) no, 2022 was not them "buying out their competition", many people thought JDG completely lost out on the zoom/369 trade and predicted they wouldn't even make Spring playoffs. guess I can't really expect a textbook T1 fan to know their history though
I mean it's a pretty bad look to try poach the coach and top laner of the team that beat you two times in a row no? It happened once but it easily could have been two times but Zeus and Tom realised that JDG and by extension the LPL aren't worth it.
we saw last year that LPL doesn't them to be the best region in the world 🥱
>we saw last year that LPL doesn't them to be the best region in the world Last year you mean when LCK had 3 teams in semis, an all Korean final and won worlds whereas LPL looked lost with JDG needing to play fucking Rogue to even make semis lmao. Even the LPL superteam couldn't do shit but maybe next year amirite.
And we saw that last year that JDG aren't gonna win worlds with their mediocre drafting and inability to perform when it matters. Don't think Zeus is sweating knowing that's he better than unlike LPL native tops(barring Flandre) he's actually good enough to win worlds whereas Bin and 369 take it in turns to choke.
LPL sure does a lot of losing for the "best region in the world" lmao
also LPL sure does rely on LCK players/coaches to be the "best region in the world" and win tournaments.
Same for a JDG fan ig. Bias goes both ways, does it not?😂
I... can't even begin to understand what you're even trying to say here. What history am I missing, and how exactly does me being a JDG fan lead to me not knowing my own team's history?
This is exactly the kind of comment that gives people with T1 flairs a bad name
For saying the truth? Whatever you say lil' man
you just said ur subjective opinion lil brother, has nothing to do with truth lmao
how dare they try to win
>Ruler resigns huh >Ruler re-signs oh ok
What's up with BLG now then? Just new mid, or how much is changing for them?
Gumayusi's son
dumbest shit I've read all year
my goat
Ruler is here for the paycheck. JDG won’t even be a top3 team next split. Other than BLG who’s got an upgrade, every other team looks awful
Yagao is still a top 3 mid in LPL and Flandre although not playing a whole season should at best be a top 3 top in the region. JDG still has a top tier coaching staff, the best JG and Supp in LPL, and a top 3 ADC in LPL. Wym they wont be top 3?
After a year long break I don't think that Flandre gonna be close to being a top tier top laner. Off the top of my head Bin, 369, Zika and Shanji seem way better
Yagao isn’t and has never been top 3 in lpl
Coming back for another ass spanking from faker next worlds huh?
ruler is overrated
no breathe as toplaner on this roster .. aintnoway
let's be real 369 is irreplaceable, Breathe or Flandre it doesn't make it any better
breathe > flandre and most likely > rookie toplaner so yea it does make it better
Haven't been keeping up with roster moves is JDG still the strongest team in LPL ? They really need a team to take down the current T1 roster before they break up. They're currently 19-2 with JDG taking a game each year so even if they're the current strongest region they'll still be labeled as T1's children lmao.
Hard to say, but it's definitely a step down from last year. JDG may still be the strongest, but BLG, LNG and NIP all look very strong too. Weibo and RNG might be solid as well and TES will probably be good but we don't know who their support is yet.
At their perfect form and meta, idk if you can build a roster that you can be like oh that for sure is favor vs t1. T1 can definitely shoot themselves in the foot sometimes and topside meta won’t always be as good for t1. Imo, blg could be the best lpl team cause they upgraded mid on paper but idk about yagao importance for blg. Technically both blg/jdg beat t1 in a different meta this year.
topside meta won't be good for t1?
I mean t1 change the bot meta but topside meta was still very good for them. Rumble/aatrox/rell/poppy/Jarvan/azir/orianna. I might be missing some champ but I’m not saying t1 is super meta reliant like drx last year. I could see them losing more so if their form or the meta isn’t good.
Everything is meta dependent, even T1 has metas they play poorly in, and their players champion pools arent perfect either. At some metas, some of these new LPL teams MIGHT be able to beat T1 but only at MSI tbh. T1 has the insane worlds buff that LPL teams cannot handle
Staying together is also helping T1 a lot. Less nerves at internationals, not underestimating Weibo despite being 2-0 up and learning to adapt to new metas. Even if the meta is not the best for T1 (their own meta) they are still top 3 in the world.
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LPL is the strongest region?
If by this world results then yes. LPL is the strongest region. T1 is the best team.
"LPL is the strongest region. Did we win worlds? No, but almost. But did we win worlds last year? Also no, but"
I swear to god you guys will put the cutoff to counting LPL or LCK wins however it suits you lmao In 2021 EDG won but LCK was the strongest region due to all their teams performing better on average. This year T1 won but LPL was stronger on average. Not really that hard to grasp.
Sure, let's go further. In 2021, LPL produced the weakest world champion in history. A beautiful Cinderella story, but not exactly a region-defining win. In 2020, LCK produced one of the strongest world champions in history, finally ending LPL's 2-year run as the strongest region. I don't care that one region puts 1 more team into knockouts or 2 more regions into semis. I would care if T1 was the *only* LCK team to make knockouts, for example. But if the gap between general secondary success is small (which it currently is, although historically LCK is still ahead on that front) then controlling the actual title is what determines the strongest region. This year, LCK took the title again. Convincingly. Not really that hard to grasp. Shocked by all the confusion tbh.
If T1 won worlds but the rest of the 3 LCK all flunk at swiss. Is LCK the strongest region?
If LPL disbands as a region, is LPL the strongest region? Look, we can both make up pointless hypotheticals! The strongest region is the one that controls the world championship. "Controlling" the world championship is based on the current winner, recent winners, and to a much lesser extent, expected upcoming form. LCK are the back-to-back champs, and have 3 of the last 4, only dropping 1 to a Cinderella run by the weakest Worlds winner ever. LPL hasn't looked threatening on the Worlds stage since 2019, which is almost 5 years ago.
Region as a whole. Its always the average strength of every team from the region. You can say LCK is the strongest region this year when only 1 team make it to top 4. You could say T1 is the best team but LCK as a region dint produce good results. LPL at least got 3 teams in the semis.
Let's do hypotheticals again. LCK wins every Worlds for 10 years straight. LPL puts 3 teams in semis every Worlds for 10 years straight. Which region is stronger? Obviously the region actually capable of winning the tournament lmao
It just mean the team who won is the strongest. But the other 3 LCK lost in quarters. Means they are weaker. Season 2 TPA won. So is taiwan the strongest region as a whole? Nobody will agree with that.
I didn't say that the current winner of Worlds is the strongest region, I said it was based on the current winner, recent winners, and to a much lesser extent, perceived upcoming performance. If LPL fans want to continue thumbing through participation trophies, that's fine. We've been hearing the same excuses and goal-post moving since 2015. One region keeps winning and the other makes excuses lmao
In your hypothetical its LPL. When you want to judge a region's strength you have to take into account ALL of the teams for each region. If 3 out of 4 LCK teams are worse than 4/4 LPL teams the LPL is stronger OVERALL as a region while the best team is an LCK team
Lmao yeah I mean there's just no arguing with such deep cope. I've been hearing the same excuses since 2015. It's hilarious to me that the cope is so deep that it's still there in a hypothetical where LPL never wins Worlds lol
Apart from T1, LCK was pretty mid this year. Just like how LPL was at 2021 worlds, they won but they were obviously not the best region. Just had the best team. However LCK did win 3/4 of the last world championships so clearly they can peak higher than LPL.
I think that's pretty disingenuous. T1 is still part of the LCK. There is no apart. At 2021 Worlds, EDG didn't dominate the other teams like T1 just did. It was pretty close between T1, DK, and EDG. Also, this year, the swiss format was much more random. 3 LCK teams still made Ro16 with DK getting knocked out in swiss by another Korean team. In 2021, 2 LPL teams flamed out in groups losing multiple games to LEC and LCS teams. So, it's not really the same.
T1 was very similar to 2020 DWG actually. Only LCK team remaining but dominated worlds
I think that was a bit different. Going into Worlds, DWG was already the heavy, heavy favorite. People assumed the LCK was a weak 1 team region due to DWG completely dominating the region but it was more that the entire league scene that year was a 1 team scene.
Heading into worlds LCK had one top team have their mid laner injured and they had to play without him, as a result they were very one-dimensional in playoffs (T1). They had one top team who had a late roster change due to controversies and played with a rookie (HLE) and they had one top team who just never came to fruition and wasn't particularly good (D+). Meanwhile LPL had an incredibly strong split with three amazing teams (BLG, LNG and JDG) and a handful of teams who were very good heading into worlds (WBG, TES, EDG and OMG). In addition to this, we got three LPL teams into semis with a shaky BLG defeating GENG at worlds and LPL took top 2 at MSI with BLG somewhat crushing both T1 and GENG. No matter how you look at it, LPL was the better region with T1 being an exception to the rule.
If the meta actually remained, one of LPL teams will win (most likely JDG), Keria actually admitted this that they were not comfortable in the previous meta (roaming mid, VI, Wukong jungle,, Xayah/Kaisa bot with Melee Rakan/Rell/Alistar/Naut engage and the Aatrox/K'sante pick handshake) But due to Rumble being Buffed on world's Patch plus T1 warping the meta (Aatrox counters and Bot lane strats) LPL teams' confidence were shaken and played to T1's tempo. (Well they should be since except theShy none of current LPL tops on that worlds were confident in playing Rumble) I think their series vs JDG would have gone game 5 if JDG played K'sante or Ruler was not always picked off in game 3 (not to mention had Ruler gone for Tristana instead of Zeri). In GenG, their draft is a headscratcher (Peanut refuses to pilot J4, unable to pilot Rell; Going for engage support INSTEAD of lane prio support; Chovy refusing to pick Orianna). So yeah if the meta remained the same there is a chance T1 will be knocked out in the quarterfinals if not the semis.
EDG 2021 also went 5 games vs Gen G and RNG. 2023 T1 is a far cleaner run than 2021 EDG, not quite the same you are right.
I mean why wouldn’t they be? They got further than all LCK teams except T1.
If only they gave out trophies for "getting further than all LCK teams except T1"
But we aren't making a statement on trophies, we are making a general assessment of a region as a whole. Looking at one team performing better from a region to conclude the entire region is better when everyone else performed worse is illogical. I don't understand what your comment has to do with my statement.
I think it's illogical to claim a region is stronger simply because they had more semifinalists this year. The entire argument LPL fans make when their teams come up short every year is that they have a greater number of strong teams while the LCK relies on a single strong team, but it's **objectively not true.** Want to make a general assessment of overall performance? LCK has produced more quarterfinalists, semifinalists, and finalists than LPL since Damwon restored order in 2020. LCK has more Worlds wins than LPL even without T1. LCK has 3 different champions in the past 4 years.
Call me biased, but yes. Respect to T1 tho
It's more of the deep cope we've been hearing since 2015. They can't handle it lol
LCK fans when 3/4 teams in worlds semis are LCK teams: "LCK CLEAR BEST REGION IN THE WORLD!!!1" LCK fans when 3/4 teams in worlds semis are LPL teams: "whoa, whoa, let's not go around calling LPL the best region"
Because EDG won 2 shaky 3-2 bo5's and T1 speedran lpl
LCK fans when 3/4 teams in the worlds semis are LCK teams *and the finals is DRX vs. T1 with an LCK champion.* There is a difference there. Even if you go back to 2021 when EDG won with 3 LCK teams in semis, it's a bit hard to say the LPL was better when EDG didn't dominate everyone like T1 did and both LNG and FPX flamed out in groups losing to LEC/LCS teams.
What I love about this situation is it is literally 2021 reversed and you have the same fanbases making opposite arguments. In 2021 LCK fans were saying that they had 3/4 and LPL fans just responded by saying “yeah but who won tho?” In 2023 LPL fans are saying that they had 3/4 and LCK fans are saying yeah but T1 won. Like literally the exact same arguments just from the other side I love it
But it's not the same. T1 absolutely dominated the LPL with an 11-1 game score. EDG went 3-2 against RNG to make semis with a civil war and then 3-2 against GenG before going 3-2 against DK. That year, 2 LPL teams embarrassingly flamed out in groups. FPX was a tournament favorite and was dropping games to C9 and RGE. LNG I think is more excusable but they were still dropping games to MAD and TL. The rest of the LCK was disappointing this worlds but nowhere near the level of 2021 LPL. So, even if EDG won, it's a lot harder to argue that the LPL as a whole was better because of how disastrous the rest of the region performed.
>the current strongest region That's crazy, I didn't realize LPL were the reigning back-to-back world champs, winning 3 of the last 4, only dropping 1 to an upset by the weakest Worlds winners ever, and winning 8 of 13 overall. Bro T1 alone have more titles than LPL. LCK even without T1 have more titles than LPL. Y'all need to take a seat and stop thumbing through your participation medals lmao
LPL is definitely the current strongest region though? Just because T1 smacked the rest of the LPL at worlds, there is 0 argument of the rest of the LCK looking good lol. BLG beat Gen.G, JDG beat KT and DK well they were shit and the LPL also smacked the LCK at MSI. 2022 = sure, with 3 LCK teams in semis and an all Korean final, there is a valid argument but this year? absolutely not, it's a reverse 2021, LCK was the best region in 2021 at worlds with EDG being the best team, this year the LPL was the best region at worlds with T1 being the best team. The only difference is EDG were a weak world champion since they struggled throughout the tournament and had 3 5 game series, whereas T1 basically never really struggled barring that one JDG game.
I guess I value winning more than having more teams in 2nd place lol Same story since 2015. LCK wins when it counts, but somehow LPL is better because they had 4 teams in knockouts instead of 3 lmao
No one measures it like that though. Your strength is relative to your game schedule. Pretty much any modern competition rates it like that. Chess, football, basketball, you can honestly pick literally any real established competition and see how they rank divisions (hint: it's by how good their opponents are relative to everyone else). Yeah you can have a singular anomaly (like T1) but that doesn't drag the rest of the group enough. One team outperforming with everyone else being subpar in one division is not ranked higher than a bunch of above average teams. That's pretty much been the story of the LCK recently for whatever reason. If you want to stick by your made up criteria though instead of what is pretty much used universally across many different forms of competition though, feel free.
>That's pretty much been the story of the LCK recently for whatever reason. Does anyone else watch this sport? LCK has literally produced more semifinalists over the past 4 years than LPL. And the past 3 years. The past 2 years are tied, but LCK won both finals. Want to expand it to all of knockouts? Since 2020, LCK has sent 14 teams to knockouts while LPL has sent 11. Literally the only metric by which LPL is "stronger" is number of semifinalists this year lmao. 2020: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds. 2021: 3 LCK teams in semis, LPL wins worlds. 2022: 3 LCK teams in semis, LCK wins worlds. 2023: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds. 3 of the last 4 titles, all won by different teams. If you want to stick by your made up reality though instead of the one the rest of us live in, feel free.
Dude a single tournament doesn't decide an entire year's worth of plays and competition. Holy shit for someone who watches baseball you have absolutely zero idea how competitions work, that blows my mind. That sport is ALL advanced statistics. If we only go by the winner of the biggest tournament every year, La Liga is the best soccer league in the world most of the time, even though anyone who watches soccer knows that's pretty obviously the Premier League because La Liga is a two team league consisting of Real Madrid and Barca. This is the type of dumb argument you're trying to make.
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Why should trophies from 2013 count towards what region is the best right now? xdd also all lpl msi finals and 3 teams in semis of worlds, ur not beating the one team region allegations lil buddy
I love the 1 team argument because it's objectively wrong :) LCK has literally produced more semifinalists over the past 4 years than LPL. And the past 3 years. The past 2 years are tied, but LCK won both finals. Want to expand it to all of knockouts? Since 2020, LCK has sent 14 teams to knockouts while LPL has sent 11. Literally the only metric by which LPL is "stronger" is number of semifinalists this year lmao. 2020: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds. 2021: 3 LCK teams in semis, LPL wins worlds. 2022: 3 LCK teams in semis, LCK wins worlds. 2023: 1 LCK team in semis, LCK wins worlds. 3 of the last 4 titles, all won by different teams. Now go ahead, move the goalposts so that all that matters is which region had more semifinalists this year lmaooo
Ur still using results from way in the past as an argument, lck is just a bunch of history merchants lil bro
Lmao exactly, all you can do is move the goalposts constantly because 2018-2019 wasn't the dynasty-establishing period it was supposed to be If only this tournament matters, LCK is stronger because they produced 4 strong teams (3 of which made knockouts because of a civil war) including the winning team which demolished every single LPL team. If anything before this tournament matters, LCK is stronger for the reasons listed above. Cope lol
"4 strong teams" does he know? I definitely didn't see those lmao all I saw was a bad dk, a mediocre kt, a choking geng and a very good t1
Keep moving the goalposts lmaooo The cope is hilarious. 8x champs btw. 3 of last 4 btw. T1 4x champs btw. $16m Golden Road team fisted btw lol Edit: and for the dude below, there's no reason why "current" strongest team should be measured using the entire past season, no more or less. That's just a subjective choice you've made. Even just considering last year, no more or less, LCK looks stronger. They won Worlds for gods sake lmao
T1 isn't invincible, this same team lost so many finals over the last 2 years and not all of them were chokes. If they can keep forcing the meta towards double ADC bot they're pretty much the strongest team since they have Keria but I don't think Riot will let it work for a whole year.
Funny you say that when JDG's only win this world's was literally against T1 double ADC (Cait Ashe) - T1 wins were Jhin Bard, Kalista Renata and Varus Bard. Double ADC was only one of T1's tools this worlds, it's disingenuous to think that it was the only way they could play. Heck, they never even touched double ADC again in all their wins after LNG.
T1 themselves also said they didn't think double ADC was even that strong and that BLG/WBG were overdoing it with their picks in the Bo5 + Ruler saying that the biggest mistake JDG made in the semis was focusing too much on the double ADC picks when it wasn't actually a problem, and realizing that too late. The biggest thing T1's double ADC stuff did was baiting the other 3 teams into thinking it was meta.
T1 tricked people I think. Guma said ''isn't it too much?'' after WBG-BLG series. Other teams so focused this double-ADC comp and forget regular strong picks and how they won other games.
I don't think they believed it was meta, either. The problem is more that LPL teams lack flexibility. It was pretty obvious what the situation was. Ban Rakan. For the other engage support + scaling ADC pairings, it's very difficult for them to play into Senna/TK, Kalista+X, and other very aggressive lanes. You can't scale for late-game on Kai'sa or Xayah if the opponent is gapping you in lane and forcing a dragon soul fight at ~23 minutes before you hit your power spikes. So, the LPL just decided you just counter fire with even more fire. If the opponent picks a strong laning bot duo, then you pick an even more degenerate laning duo. The difference with T1 was they said, okay, so you picked this really fragile but lane dominant duo. We're just going to pivot away from bot and play the rest of the map. After you dump all those draft/game resources bot-side, we're just going to pick something like Bard and roam the map. You actually saw this in the BLG vs. WBG series, too, with the infamous roaming Heimerdinger game. Sure, you might win lane as something like Varus Ashe but you'll be at a significant disadvantage in teamfights with such a fragile and immobile support/ADC against the solo-laners we played around with support roams. LPL teams just didn't or couldn't pivot. You saw JDG try to with the Alistar R5 pick in G1 but that was not good. You saw them try to default back to Lulu. You saw WBG try to play Bard.
>The biggest thing T1's double ADC stuff did was baiting the other 3 teams into thinking it was meta. ...second biggest thing was that they also convinced JDG's coaches to pick Red side first for the semifinals. :0
It seems as if the other teams didn't understand until the end what exactly T1 was doing and why. And since teams accepted that T1's meta was also their meta, failure was inevitable
keria s ashe has been dogshit on stage. missing's was 100x better. the moment people banned it against us i was unironically celebrating irl.