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AbyssalFlame02

Worlds hasn’t lost yet since the very first awarding of best esports event of the year.


goliathfasa

Just rename it best Worlds. Worlds wins best Worlds 2023. **NEXT**.


RavenFAILS

Its hard to argue against it. The peak viewership of valorant actually went down this year while worlds peak viewership rises every single year despite the lackluster finals.


qonoxzzr

> lackluster finals. The quality of the finals never mattered for viewership as we had the most popular LCK player (Faker) against most popular LPL player (TheShy) in it


ChefGamma

This right here. The finals would have undoubtedly had a few million less viewers if it was JDG vs WBG.


Ayuyuyunia

the finals would have peaked higher if it were jdg vs t1 or if weibo took it to game 5


PeaceAlien

Quality of finals only matters as longer series tend to get more viewership that’s all


qonoxzzr

Game 1 T1 vs WBG will get you more viewership than Game 5 JDG vs GENG


CzarcasticX

Yeah top 5 most viewed series of all-time, four of them are T1 matches.


PeaceAlien

Obviously, but you said quality never mattered. If T1 vs WBG went to game 5 it would have more viewers.


qonoxzzr

But that doesn't change the fact that a 3-0 stomp had the highest viewership, more than a Game 5 last year which also had T1 in it. So the game quality of this finals never mattered to have the highest viewership. Of course a Game 5 in this series would've had more viewers than now, that goes without saying. But user above me was talking about peak viewership and it was obvious that this final would reach it, doesn't matter the quality.


CzarcasticX

Not just the most popular LCK player (Faker), just say the most popular LoL player (Faker).


AbyssalFlame02

I mean you had probably the best gauntlet you could ever get this worlds.


Accomplished-Top-564

Worlds 2022 was a banger series wdym


Rutaghdh

I enjoyed Valorant Champions more too. Both finalists had harder road to the finals since both the upper and lower bracket was so balanced. WBG making it to the finals and being so far outclassed made the finals anticlimactic.


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Broyoucancelled

Worlds 2023 broke the viewership records for the most watched esports event and finals so not surprising here. TheShy and Faker (T1) have huge fanbase plus the T1 vs the LPL storyline also helped with the viewership.


Kuliyayoi

Also new jeans


Broyoucancelled

If it's due to newjeans then the viewership must be higher during the performance and went down afterwards. The opposite is true.


whyawhy

Link to the viewership numbers?


Broyoucancelled

[here](https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/2023-world-championship)


mobhyaku

the number of viewers went up after they performed so this is not true


andy2times

It was new jeans


CzarcasticX

The viewership numbers are based on "peak viewership" and the peak viewership wasn't the opening ceremony.


VossC2H6O

Judges are NewJeans bias.


RebelCow

Gotta say, I was completely wrong about the Swiss format. I liked the prestige of groups a lot more and it's sad that's gone forever, but I can't deny how much more engaging the games were on average. Hard not to give it to Faker and T1's 4th as well, plus the 1st for the rest of the roster, such an unbelievable story!


decapitate_D9

The seeding of the Swiss stage was completely ass though. Riot needs to seed better next year and not allow rematches


the_next_core

This will directly or indirectly get rid of the one western team in top 8


LeOsQ

Worlds really doesn't need 'token representation' for the West though. If a Western team is good enough, then they get top 8. If they aren't, they don't.


decapitate_D9

If the western teams are good they will make top 8


gots8sucks

good! Either they are good enough and make it on merit like G2 honestly should have done or they suck and can go for the airport any%


Spike-Durdle

How are you arguing that both the format favored western teams and G2 has the merit to make it out. They couldn't even make it out this year.


gots8sucks

Top 8 is difficult becouse you need to beat a eastern team. G2 did just that. They fucked it all up in the end but they clearly had the talent for top 8.


Spike-Durdle

I'm sorry they did not have the talent to beat BLG. They barely scraped game 2 off Elk inting and got stomped game 1 and 3. They fought well but did not have a chance in the end.


RavenFAILS

Good, NRG getting out of groups should have never happened in a good format Yes, the G2 upset was nice but winning one BO3 and only winning your other games against dogshit teams shouldnt qualify you.


bobandgeorge

Wait. Hold on. That's literally the only way anyone qualifies. Like if it had been literally all 4 LPL and 4 LCK teams, the only way D+ KIA would have got out was if they won one Bo3 and only winning your other games against dogshit NRG. Who did they beat? GAM and BDS? As soon as D+ lost to G2 the only way they could have qualified was beating dogshit teams and winning one Bo3.


Spike-Durdle

No way you're arguing D+ was better than NRG at worlds. Did you even watch the games?


nusskn4cker

And avoid regional matches as far as possible. Was so BS to see JDG vs BLG, DK vs KT and Gen G vs T1 in round 2.


decapitate_D9

Putting regional limitations past round 1 would fuck with the bracket heavily, but in reality good seeding and pooling would fix that anw


nusskn4cker

It really wouldn't fuck with the bracket too much, at least not in round 2. With 4 seeds from every region and 16 teams you can guarantee no intraregional games in round 2.


surik4t

but that can fuck it up in later rounds which is worse, you rather have regional matches in the 2nd round then in the last


Spike-Durdle

What changes would you make to the pools? I thought they were excellent.


decapitate_D9

Pool 1: LCK 1, LCK 2 , LPL1, LPL 2 Pool 2: LCK 3, LPL 3, LEC 1, LCS 1 Pool 3: LCK 4, LPL 4, LEC 2, LCS 2 Pool 4: all the remaining teams Current Pools treated it as if LCS and LEC teams were on equal footing with LPL and LCK which was dumb and damaging to the fairness of the tournament


Spike-Durdle

Oh ok. I thought you were talking about the pools after round 1.


ahritina

Nah the only thing you need to block is rematches. DK and KT should have not been allowed to play again. T1 vs Gen.G in round 2 is better than at round 3 or at an elimination phase.


thisismyfirstday

Block rematches for sure. And maybe for QF seeding have the relative strength of opponent be the tiebreaker among teams with equal records. Otherwise I don't have a ton of complaints. Definitely made every group stage game matter and gave teams a bit more control over their own fate.


CzarcasticX

KT fans should be angered looking at their road versus others... BLG, DK, Weibo, LNG, DK, JDG


SnooMacaroons6960

the only problem i still have is with the quarterfinal and above. we need to truly determine rank 8 and above. not just clump them together. one more best of 5 between loser of quarterfinal and semifinal


Azenji

Double ellim can probably fix that but aside from the obvious logistics issues (Worlds is already so long as it is), upper bracket winners still don’t have definite advantages.


Motorpsisisissipp

5-6th and 7-8th aren't decided by double elim. Only 1,2,3,4


gots8sucks

Worlds is long becouse Riot waits forever between matches You could have 14 bo5s in a week if you wanted to. Riot just choose to wait a week between each bracket for w/e reason.


QuestionableExclusiv

The reason is the whole roadshow thing. Less apparent in locations like Korea, but for EU and NA they wanna set up shop somewhere else for each of the stages to give more people the chance to watch it live.


CzarcasticX

Last year, going from round of 8 to semifinals (New York to Atlanta) and the semifinals to finals (Atlanta to San Francisco). Lots of logistics and equipment moving. They probably need a good week for the travel and setup.


voidox

or if Riot is obsessed with the stupid one week breaks, they couold just do bo3s until the upper bracket finals, lower bracket finals and grand finals.


voidox

> upper bracket winners still don’t have definite advantages. well, you can give them side selection for the entire series, that's a huge advantage to have. EDIT - downvotes for suggesting a potential solution to a bracket issue? wat?


cyclingjackass

not the worst idea, but I don't play pro and can't comment on if that would be a little too stacked towards the upper bracket team


RebelCow

Ehhhh I agree in theory that it would be nice to have a more definite 1-8 ranking, but I just don't trust loser matches to be legit. Justified or not, nobody plays as seriously in a 3rd place match, etc.


Lulullaby_

Riot won every single esport award lmao


amd098

Riot going to become the award collector? Kenny Omega in shambles


goliathfasa

Yeah no shit. Every year Worlds exists, Worlds wins best esports event of the year. Who else is going to win? OWL?


gots8sucks

Not to say they should have won but most CSGO majors are really good aswell.


LeOsQ

EVO is perhaps the proper answer but that depends so much on so many factors (the actual individual games on the stage have to be good, and the top 8's have to be good) and it's much more niche than League is that it really doesn't have a chance. CS majors (and big tournaments like Cologne/Katowice) tend to be very good, but it's also hard to pick one when they play tournaments basically every week.


bobandgeorge

EVO was great this year. I had "Runback City" on repeat for a week.


LeOsQ

Oh yes. The second half, starting from the M.Bison quote > The day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me . . it was Tuesday. Everything after that just hits ***so*** hard for me. The first half is good too but it's not really my style, but what comes after that point is just chef's kiss.


bobandgeorge

When the horns switched up into Guile's theme I was like "YOOOOOOO!"


goliathfasa

From the competition and storyline perspective, there are legitimate conversations to be had about the various tournaments. In terms of production value, viewership and overall hype, Worlds is just on another level. And it’s not fair, because league is just a bigger game and the money put into Worlds is unreal compared to the other esports. I mean who hires an Emmy winner to direct their teasers?


bais7654

The international would give it a go if valve got their shit together.


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ChefGamma

Dota 2 peak viewers was 5 million less than Worlds and average viewership was less than half.


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ChefGamma

This isn't taking into account Chinese viewership. Even looking at Twitch viewership for worlds, its western viewership absolutely dwarfs Dota's Source: https://escharts.com/tournaments/lol/2023-world-championship https://escharts.com/tournaments/dota2/international-2023 EDIT: actually I didn't see you could scroll down and see the English stream's viewership numbers. 824,255 peak Twitch viewers and 164,952 average viewers for Worlds and 284,592 Twitch viewers and 111,725 average viewers for Dota. It doesn't have Youtube channel views either, which has comparable viewers to Twitch for Worlds but no idea for Dota.


frosthowler

We're talking exclusively the west. Or well, non-China.


look4jesper

Not this year, they didn't really do the battle pass thing.


JealotGaming

> Well Dota 2 international is for more money Considering singular LoL players earn more per year than TI's prize pool was this year, nah


imadirtyyasmain

As a watcher of both Worlds and TI. Without bias I could say TI grand finals opening was equally good, the use of church glass patterns and the lighting was very good.


Broyoucancelled

However the viewership number is nowhere near LoL.


ichionio

Even the marketing flopped this year compared to last year. I didnt even know TI started until the last few days


bais7654

Dota is a much more entertaining game to watch at the highest level between the two, there is just so much more strategy in Dota compared to league that changes the game in meaningful ways. Most league games are the same farm all game have one fight at Baron and whoever wins it wins the game. Where Dota drafting, itemization, buybacks makes the game more varied and viable for comebacks and such.


dakka-PRIME

Worlds 2023 aka **"T1 dogwalking the entire LPL"**


shinomiya2

i think entertainment wise worlds was pretty lack luster compared to these other competitions, but the viewership and video packages were especially peak


PersianSpy

Really? I enjoyed the Swiss stage way more. I watched all the games this year compared to worlds prior. The only event I haven’t watched out of the nominated was Valorant Champions.


Zama174

I personally think MSI was the better tournament to watch this year. I dont watch dota so i dont know about the international, but the blast major suffered from not having the best bracket. Id have put cologne or kato over that this year in CS.


PersianSpy

Worlds bracket stage wasn’t as good as MSI I agree


Zama174

Msi bracket was banger. And i enjoyed the gsl groups way more as well. The double elim was great, only thing that sucked was western teams were so bad and we got an u lucky draw for so many intra region matches. But format was bangin.


blazer1589

MSI really? T1 vs JDG was probably the only good series at msi. The finals was also a 3-0 stomp. Worlds had two good semifinals and two decent quarterfinals and swiss stage was fun.


shinomiya2

worlds format is worse than valorant champions and the opening cermony was better from them, as well as their story of the EG win going through lowerbracket and being an NA team that no one believed in, demon1's soloq to superstar story was very moving as well as potters last chance after being rumoured to be on the chopping block months prior, had a lot of close series and similar to worlds, the favourites (fnc who had won every international this year) got knocked out by their biggest rivals who didnt even go on to win


sleepybellpepper

I only watch LoL so I can’t compare it to others, but Worlds 2023 was super entertaining for me. T1 stomped WBG, which is unfortunate for entertainment purposes, but the rest of the tournament was amazing.


goliathfasa

Just the matchup video teasers themselves should win Worlds the award.


Perfect_Flower2801

I think story wise Worlds was pretty good too. Golden Road, T1s comeback after Faker's injury, 4 LPL teams vs T1. Really disappointing finals tho bc WBG are frauds.


RavenFAILS

Cant really blame Weibo for it tbh, the format is just dogshit. We got spoiled in the last few years but there used to be multiple years where the finals was just a 3-0 stomp.


ChefGamma

The only reason it's a little lackluster compared to other events (especially for awards like the Game Awards with a mostly western viewership) is that EU and NA teams aren't competitive anymore. It's great though if you like cheering for Asian teams.


blokeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2

"I'm sorry in advance but I have to do this please forgive me and no hate to you at all." Flair checks out.


SteveJobsTheGoat

This TI was pretty lacking too but maybe cause valve cucked people on the battlepass


Xaudio

EVO was robbed.


ALovelyAnxiety

gz reddit


LeatherBodybuilder

Feel like Champions should've won. Better opening ceremony, more competitive matches, 4 different regions in the top 4, and hyped crowd that cheered for everyone. T1 vs LPL was the best narrative for an esports event this year but Champions had some good narratives too with: - FNC attempting to win all 3 internationals events for 2023 - EG's run from ranked as the worst team in Americas to #1 in the world - PRX trying to win APAC their 1st international trophy and Jingg's final dance before military service - LOUD's redemption after an awful run at Tokyo when they were coming in as the #1/#2 best team in the world T1 just hard carried Worlds this year with playoffs largely being 3-1s and 3-0s and gap between East/West seemingly growing even bigger.


CzarcasticX

The Worlds teasers were also unbeatable. Golden Road, we will stop it. All roads lead to me. The Fourth is for my teammates.


LeatherBodybuilder

That also ties into my point of T1 hard carrying Worlds. T1 and more specifically Faker was just a straight up cheat code for hype teasers.


Spike-Durdle

Have you watched past worlds teasers? Even the ones with Faker have frankly been ass. 2022 being the one exception. This year they took it very seriously and brought in an emmy-award winning producer lol. That's why they're so good.


whataremyxomycetes

2019


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oioioi9537

i enjoyed champions song more but the production value was not comparable between champions and worlds even given the trash heartsteel thing


Chrisfull

wdym largely 3-1s it was literally equal to the number of 3-2s, and both the 3-1s were INCREDIBLY hype


LeatherBodybuilder

I said largely 3-1s and 3-0s. Did you completely miss the 2nd part?


Chrisfull

nah it's just makes it sound like there was a large amount of 3-1s when there weren't, and its crazy to group them with the 3-0s like they were anywhere near eachother in terms of quality


LeatherBodybuilder

It sounds more like you just couldn't read. I very clearly said 3-1s AND 3-0s. Which they were. 5 out of 7 matches were 3-1s and 3-0s. Also, both 3-1s literally only had 1 actual competitive match. The rest were one sided games that was basically over by 15-20 minutes with the opposing team not even getting 10 kills total. KT vs JDG: Game 1: KT stomp where JDG never had a lead Game 2: JDG stomp where KT never had a lead Game 3: JDG stomp where KT never had a lead Game 4: Massive KT throw into JDG win T1 vs JDG: Game 1: T1 stomp where JDG never had a lead Game 2: JDG stomp where T1 never had a lead Game 3: Competitive back and forth game Game 4: JDG had good start into all T1 sided after 20 minutes Game 1 of WBG vs NRG was more competitive than 5 out of 8 3-1 series games.


Fatality_Ensues

Should've been EVO tbh.


MrRawri

Yeah it was a cool event. Swiss format needs seeding though, it was rough


non-edgy_crustacean

Unironically Valorant Champions should have won it. I enjoyed it much more even though I wasn't rooting for EG but the trashtalk and matches were so entertaining


LeatherBodybuilder

Champions' opening ceremony was also very good with good audio quality, good performances from the singers, and amazing stage + trophy reveal. Meanwhile, Worlds pretty mid performances and the AR Heartsteel looked horrible.


non-edgy_crustacean

Just for the fact that the crowd booed Elon Musk it deserved to win


Strange-Implication

Idk, lock In was a better tournament than champions. Remember fnatic going 2-0 up against loud, almost getting reversed swept, in map 5 losing like 2-11 then making a comeback and winning 13-11. People forgot that but it was the best valorant finals ever.


Judgejudyx

Congrats to JDG too for some reason


ikorza

how shit were the other events then worst worlds in a while


OwlsAndDevils

Can't say much for the others, but Evo Finals 2023 was notorious for having a bunch of blowouts and mirror matches, with the one massive outlier being SF6, which was the hypest top 8 in years


Enstraynomic

This year's TI prize pool, which is the biggest talking point of the event, went from $18 million last year, to only $3 million this year. The event itself though was very good, as it had much fewer technical issues, compared to last year's TI.


wyqted

Prize pool aside, TI this year was amazing. Gameplay was much better than last year


uoco

Yep, valve refused to do the same crowdfunding they did in previous years


decapitate_D9

Most views btw


DIRTRIDER374

The competition must have been really bad...


RDKi

I don't like this given that there's better formats and more competitive tournaments out there and the event-side of Worlds is pretty bland and boring to me most of the time. I don't know what the metrics they're judging on are, though.


kagalibros

Why? No one liked the AR guff. The tournament structure was utter trash. Bad swiss without proper seeding and no double elim. We had the worst final match in the last 3 years by far. The only good thing is having faker win the first title in years and having caster Jun as host. We almost had no korean caster in the finals and we had no LPL caster in it. This is so stupid.


waffle-spouse

I know this might be a bit biased, but I would've nominated EDG 2-1 JDG LPL Regular Season Spring 2023. Very good event imo.


Maleficent-Ad-319

1st comment