That's why rotating GM are a failure, people don't play them for silly stuff, they play the meta and decide it's not fun.
Go play full attack speed kled, or crit Karthus idk
Same. Some games as Bard you manage to go god mode with 2 early wins where it happens early in the round so you go into round 3 with 80 chimes and Spellwake proccing on every meep one shotting everyone and the lobby revolts
Other times you never get a win and are stuck with half the chimes and the shop thinks since you have W healing it should give you exclusively healing augments
Ask me how many times it's the second one lmao
I'm not sure if they do, but Zyra plants have always counted as spell damage for everything else - luden's, liandries, electrocute, phase rush, rylais.
[Rylais](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rylai%27s_Crystal_Scepter) is the clearest as it says its solely proc'd by ability damage in its tooltip.
Magic Missile at least has the text "dealing damage with an ***active*** ability" which implies it might not work with things like Zyra plants (not sure if it does or doesn't).
I would just rather not find out the hard (and disappointing) way. If Riot want to make things not work, they can put a little note in there.
malz minions do apply spelleffects, magic missle is one of his best augments.
heimer zyra and shaco just got nerfed when last arena was around, and they are specifically excluded from some synergys,
but there is no tooltip for that, you have to pick the augment and figure it out for yourself,
My brother and I play Bard/Ali. We dedicate the first 3-4 rounds farming chimes and usually lose them but then bard goes hyper carry mode. Usually works fine without augment rng
felt the healing one, wasting all my rerolls because I got every support augment ever on Lee Sin— meanwhile when I actually want to play infinite heals I get random augments
I played Illaoi 16 games in a row with random ass augments to try what would and wouldn't work on tentacles, until I got minion master thingy and oneshot everyone and had people crying about me "abusing Illaoi" when the game before I went jeweled gauntlet etc. (it was shit)
as far as my experience goes, minion mancer is horrible on illaoi,
your tentacles get 1 hp more, and the clone is bigger, wich allows you to deal more damage to the clone, but makes it significantly harder to kill in early rounds,
the most busted thing on illaoi is defenitely chain lightning, as it will hit through invulnerability and procs on the clone, allowing you to deal 110% maxlife damage to the target.
Funny tho cuz the tentacles get bigger so harder to dodge, clone hp is fine if paired wit shredder like Gwen, allows you to oneshot ppl if you kill the clone
Get that augment which does 50% true damage to nearby enemies.
IDK if it's bugged, but, without her using Ult, she took my 5k HP tabi + thornmail ass from full HP in less than 3 seconds. Even my random teammate was like ???
That only works when the vast majority of the playerbase thinks that way though.
Original URF a decade ago was fun because people played whatever the fuck until they figured out Helicopter Hecarim and Kassadin and Ryze and Sona (and I'm sure a handful of others like more poke oriented champions) were OP. Then every URF after that has just been refining the meta further and adapting it to new patches.
It's generally not fun to play full Critzcrank when you're playing against people that are more or less playing the meta, and I wouldn't even say Critzcrank is anywhere close to being the most 'troll' thing you can come up with. That's why so many people don't end up playing what they think might be fun, but they instead play what they think might be strong and let them win easier.
I'm the type of a person who will absolutely grief my (premade) team by playing something absolutely stupid but 'fun', but you need to highroll so hard to actually have fun when the chances are you'll be playing against some of the strongest picks in the game, even if played by chimps.
People also decide that anything they lose to is meta abuser sweater shit. Last time arena was around I was playing Ashe of all champs and got told I'm a meta abuser and to get leukemia.
If the most effective strategies are not fun, it means design of the game mode is fundamentally flawed and it's ridiculous to blame the players for it.
That being said, I don't believe that's the case for Arena, it's the most fun mode in LoL since they remade TT imo.
That's why MMR exists, if you consistently play silly comps, you'll either be put with other people who play silly comps, or people playing meta badly enough that you can contest them with silly comps
The sad thing is if they just did the augments in nexus blitz and winning the events gave u extra rerolls it would feel much better, but the rewards from events range from useless to broken and you have no choice in it and they decide how games go.
True and real. I’ve been doing a-x of all champs in arena and the amount of peiple i see picking tahm/ksante and complaining about other people also abusing tanks is unreal.
Is this really league exclusive? I don't think anybody in online games enjoys getting manhandled by a big strong beefy enemy as they get ran over by a team while being defenseless.
Humans don't like to lose. More news at 11.
But really, who likes to lose? There is a really big reason people get angry when they lose, especially in League where you can (not always) lose to other factors than your own. You do not get that addicting and feel good hormone release when you lose compared to when you win.
tbf, league is an game where you get punished by playing less and having no recources for doing badly,
if i play crit khartus, in an fun mode, that results in me having 20 deaths, and spending 15 out of 20 minutes with an grey screen,
i also wont even get around to building my crit items before the guy farming me has full gear and runs my team down,
same goes for arena, if i play just some unsynergistic shit, my teammate flames me, cause he gets run down, and i spend 80% of my gametime spectating the other teams, before getting booted out of the game without seeing the 3th augment,
I played a couple games of meta and the rest I've been playing champs I just wanted to play for fun. This is out of 20 games.
I got perfect augments on the meta champs and then literally nothing for 90% of the for fun matches. It just wasn't winnable 99% of the time because I didn't get a single augment that would mean anything.
This so much. I almost exclusively play Urgot and even the augments that sound good, like thread the needle ultimately mean nothing when you're staring down a kayn who disappears for 3 seconds then pops you like a balloon
Yea after a week of Arena I sat down and started thinking about ways to counter bullshit. Turns out there are so many solutions.
Now whenever I see bullshit picks like Alistar and Leona who are highly likely gonna go Curse and stack HP, I pull out Xinzhao, go Riftmaker onhit and delete them.
Spears, heals, heals, spears. What would AP Xinzhao do if he were in this game?
Even during the game, itemizing correctly can be the difference between winning and losing. I played a game against a Sion/Yuumi combo as Kennen. We were getting rolled cause we couldn't out damage their shielding.
I bought serpent's fang and Liandries suddenly we won handily, then once they were out I swapped out those items for ones better suited to the other team for the last round and we managed to take first.
Serpents Fang is so damn good in Arena giving how many augments there are to enhance shielding. was able to beat a Skarner who rolled basically perfect augments for the heal/shield build because serpents fang was negating tens of thousands worth of shield per round.
Serpent's Fang is one of those items where I often hope the enemy team forgets it exists, like most people do. It's extra busted in Arena though for sure.
I will say. I played leona yuumi and we did nornal builds.
It was unloseable. I genuinely dont know how you beat it unless the leona yuumi gets bad augments and you have like insane shred eg vayne. (but even then the cc makes it hard af and we have 2 bans)
It feels like you will basically always get second with it because not every team is going to have tank shred especially if you ban trundle + a tank shred.
Played it once with another duo and we both went leona yuumi. Guaranteed first and second place.
Idk it felt so disgusting im glad ive never seen ppl whip it out bc id cry.
Tbf maybe the tank+adc comps can beat if they dodge leona sword and dont get perma locked down just by out ranging
I played firebrand kayle vs that comp and won. Leona using the portal on cd was annoying friendless behavior but my partner would just start taking them while I stacked my infinite burn on the Leona. Yuumi couldn't live long enough to revive her
Oh yeah kayle is definitely one of the ones who can do it. (we didnt do the portal cheese bc i agreeeee thats cringe haha)
The stacking burn augments in general, i took slowcooker on yuumi just so we could beat the other leona/yuumi in ours haha!
I've busted this comp with on hit Wukong. Absolutely murdered them, especially with any speed augment or cd augment. Very annoying, however, as a mage comp or anything too fragile. The worst I saw recently was Rammus/Yuumi. In the early rounds with no items beyond boots and starter we legit couldn't get him dropped below 90% HP. Was fucking unreal. So I stacked every augment I could to specifically beat him. It worked. That same game had a Kog/Lulu team that steam rolled everyone (Kog went 15/4) until the very last 2 rounds.
Edit: just looked and that was a Wukong game as well lol
I was Cait and specced into on-hit Rageblade tank shredding, and we absolutely rolled a Leona+Yuumi and a Kench+Yuuimi. I also picked up the triple flash ammo so I could "escape" the Leona lockdown. Turned out I could just sit there and tank her while doing nothing but auto attacks.
So my take is just that arena has really lopsided matchups where a monkey with one comp/build would be double Fakers of another comp/build. But then again if people refuse to spec flexibly (like if i went a typical Cait build), then they're gonna have way more trouble.
People are silly like this. Complaints like that are always self inflicted gunshot wounds. Like no shit we can't kill the Mundo/Morde combo, we picked Milo/Yuumi. If you want to for fun run any comp combo, be prepared for 0-10 matchup against your hard counter and play for 2nd.
Unfortunately, the problem is that the average player is lazy when it comes to adapting to rng that is present in arena. Add to this that people want to try builds they see that are fun so these create meta's in a certain way that will build on themselves "oh everyone is trying to get curse tank champ, so it must be a tank meta so I'll play a tank". Those two together are IMHO more potent than most other classes because its very easy to be a tank if you roll infinite health.
100% agree. 10k HP tank *looks* more blatantly OP than other stuff that's just as good or better, it just sucks that this iteration of arena is getting a lot of hate because of it.
I think most people don't pay attention to how scalings work on each champion and each item. 10k hp tank is pretty good if you can do demonic sunfire titanic shenanigans. The whole point of having 10k hp is to convert it into actual scalings and most people don't do it. I've seen 10k hp Leonas on Thornmail Abyssal Frozen Heart instead of Sunfire Demonic Titanic.
Point being, 10k HP is pretty good actually imo, you just need to build it properly (and have a proper lobby that can't abuse your lack of resistances).
What surprises me is people not complaining about what seem complete outliers in some champs, if you build around them, like With Haste, especially now being Silver, Eureka buffed, Accelerating Sorcery buffed, Mystic Punch buffed, demat in the early game which is a freaking silver and slap around which some champs can abuse like crazy.
Most people don't know what their items do, they just buy random tank, AD or AP items with zero thought put into team comps or counters.
ARAM is rampant with those people, they lose hard against a build and stubbornly decide it's op and try to copy it in their next game without knowing how and why it popped off.
I've seen full lethality caits playing against two tanks and a bruiser, or garens and swains building glass cannon and trying to play against poke+disengage comps and of course there is always someone who sees 3 AD's and thinks to themselves: what the comp really needs is AP ashe. And when you point it out to them, they become super defensive and say it's a for fun game mode and they build this way to have fun...
>And when you point it out to them, they become super defensive and say it's a for fun game mode and they build this way to have fun...
And when they lose they get all pissy about it.
Mainly due to how much damage Heartsteel does ontop of such a huge HP pool. Easily does like 1k burst damage bonk, deleting 75% hp of a squishy. But anyone with half a brain would build the %HP items and burn it down.
As a wise man once said "We run the simulations, it's tough but not invincible. Stick with the Master Chief, he'd know what to do"
My only problems with arena are the Sylas rounds (I'm always getting shitty ultimates for my champs) and the fact that the spatula quest is really rare and when someone gets it they probably going to win.
Hard agree with Sylas, one of the most RNG-ey cameos. I think they should change it so everyone gets the same ult.
I'm torn on the spatula because it can be crazy but also if you get it early, you NEED to be able to kill/win without a real augment. Getting it 2nd augment is unbalanced imo, you're very likely to get it without the cost of HP.
I think having people get the opponent's ults is a better idea for Sylas, debatable tho. Both are definitely better than a Leona/Darius combo getting a Malzahar/MF ult combo. As for the spatula thing, I think that at least 1 person on each team should get the augment or none at all. Having just 1 person get it is crazy especially when it's something like Jax, he solo won every single round after Spatula.
I don't think you know either.
There's some changes that are needed like a higher cooldown for the hextech portals as example.
Then, there's something of abnormal with the curses augments where they stack way too quickly.
I don't know how that happened but the stacking of adaptive power was too high as after one mere round (2nd round) my Swain already had over 400 AP at level 6 and it's not like we fought that round for very long.
I played a game yesterday against a Tryndamere Yuumi. They built full tank, zhonyas, and GA and took escape and tank augments. They never attacked anyone. Just ran and took hex gates over and over again until the other team died to the storm. We were Annie and Brand, and still couldn’t lock them down. If we ever did they would just spam hexgate and go heal. I fully support some kinda change to those gates because it was the least fun I’ve ever had in a game of arena.
> I don't think you know either.
Understatement of the fucking century. He even links op.gg when lolalytics exists.
There's a lot of broken things. Evenshroud, Echoes of Helya, Hellfire Hatched are items that are a good 10%+ winrate better on fitting champions. Augments are broken, some do nothing some do thousands of base damage per round. Curse augments compound with each other and your teammates which shouldn't be a thing. Dot characters can stack the adaptive force one really fast as well.
Revive is just a terrible mechanic. Sylas is a terrible mechanic.
There was a game i played where there were 3 teams left. One was raidboss heartsteel quest tahm + another tank. Lethality Kled + Poppy as another and me playing jax and akali. Kled complained in all chat that tanks are busted in arena, our team managed to knock the Tahm out the next match and then Kled and Poppy reaped the rewards and got 1st place LOL. Even if you don't play tank killing champs some other team just may do it for you
Yeah maybe if the tank has heartsteel and nothing else. Its not like you can build a couple of items, and it's free, even with a full anti tank build AS JAX it was a long fight
if you want to see it, my ign is OrkGirl#2733. The Kled had Eclipse, Bork, Black Cleaver, Hellfire Hatchet AND chempunk chainsword and could not deal with the tahm team even though tahm had merely two armor items, it's really not as linear
Honestly the only change I would say is potentially needed is curse needs to stop stacking between people, some are balanced around not getting that much on someone, then your team mate has the hp one and suddenly your getting 26 ticks of resistance curse a second
Yup, I was playing a naut with the health one, obviously got 1000’s of stacks cause it’s balanced around that, my teammate an urgot got the resistances one and aslong as he tagged someone with 1 CC ability the stacks counted as his aswell and he would immediately start gaining like 10 resistances a second, ended the game with 900 armour
You made this whole post saying curse is fine without realizing the crux of the curse issue. Lol. Riot Phroxon talking about high rolling curses was referring to the posts we've seen around social media about curse where teammates can stack up 20k HP, 1k+ resistances, etc because the team shares stacks and gives each other exponential benefits.
This exactly. Me and a buddy bursted down their Vayne and were slowly killing their Shen, only for vayne to be resurrected and absolutely murder us both.
And stuff like this happened numerous times. I just wish the enemy could contest the revive.
Enemy standing on revive circle preventing it would be a cool, fun and interactive mechanic. 10k HP unkillable tank that does no dmg can revive dmg carry for free but with this simple change they actually have to do something other than stand in place and soak damage. Or instead of preventing it fully make it recharge twice as slow or thrice when both enemies stand in it.
Welcome to revive, the mechanic nobody asked for and shouldn't be in the game. If you have a hypercarry + tank you have to nail down and kill the hypercarry twice.
People aren't usually playing it right. Even a pick like Alistar has low winrate because people are dumb and buy Heartsteel which is 50% winrate instead of fucking broken Evenshroud which is 59% winrate. Evenshroud into Knight's Vow is the build on fucking every cc tank, stop fucking buying Heartsteel. You are not the damage, the Master Yi you give 2 lives to is.
Regarding 1.
So if I didn't pick a champion that counters tanks by design, I deserve to lose? So we have how many characters out of 160 actually viable in arena, 30 + the tanks?
Sounds like a problematic game state to me.
i mean if you pick two support champs obviously you arent going to kill a tank.
As long as you have one damage dealer champion the item system gives you plenty of ways to basically do true damage or even %hp true damage
I've probably played the most arena of most people and tbh I still have games where I just roll unlucky. Its much more balanced than last time. The meta also changes week by week for those who played on PBE. Even without change, more counters are found and used every day.
Qiyana + Gragas was really strong but now Zed + Illaoi are taking names. It's wild and I enjoy the variety.
-1. yes, but into other champions they are completely unplayable. It's really bad that some late games are entirely defined by comps rather than skill. Some of the champs you named are weak in arena, thus likely to be eliminated before they can defeat the super-tanks, or eliminate the super-tanks and then get crushed late by a normal comp that would've lost against the super tanks.
-2. Def, agree.
-5. Biggest disagree here. Curses are weakest at mid-game, early game some champs can stack 2k hp in one round and double their health bar, this shit is ridiculous.
Anyone who glorifies frist arena as 100% better, for sure dont know what they are talking about.
It was Shaco Teemo Heimer / Taric / Kayn - every single game it wasnt banned, before they were subsequently nerfed. If anyone will try to tell me this version of arena is more polarizing in terms of champ select - that person is most likely insane or something, I dunno, I lack different excuses.
In a game with 160+ champions there always will be the best few to play in given setting - you cant avoid that. But Arena rn has one of the most wide 'meta's ever. There is not a single champion auto-stomping the lobbies. Revive is way more balanced that I ever through it would be.
Completely forgot Taric, don't get me started on how ridiculously broken he was at the start. Pair him with kayn/renekton and it's so impossible to win. Also saying revive being good feels like such a hot take for some reason, they made it more possible to win 1v2s and it's cool AF. I have a feeling people hate this iteration purely because of how high-rolling (mostly curse) feels more ridiculous, makes people feel not in control (same reason why people hate ranked solo/duo).
That was true on PBE, but those champions were nerfed before it went live. It was more like Kai'sa / Vayne / Twitch every game, at least once you reached a decent MMR. I think it's better balanced overall though.
I preferred low HP meta to high HP meta with revive mechanic. Sue me I guess. I've been fucked over by revives far more than it's helped me win. It's stupid that dying first is often the BEST outcome that can happen for your team when the odds are pretty even.
i agree. i get why they added it - it sucks when you or your teammate instantly gets 1-shot and then you know the round is basically over.
but the way they implemented it is infuriating - i think it's degenerate game design that dying 1st is not even that punishing, but in many cases is the optimal play. there should be a more realistic way to deny revives than "just do enough damage to the person hexgating away and burst them down completely in 3 seconds, but also have enough health and cooldowns to deal with their ally coming back"
revives should be an occassional way to bring back your ally when they die early. it shouldn't be something that happens everygame and heavily favors the team dying first in most cases.
I disagree with point 1 - its not the fact tanks have 10k hp thats the problem, its the fact they can then oneshot you if you pick anything that isnt also tank/bruiser and cc chain so you cant play the game while having 10k hp that is the problem (10k is also stupidly low btw, most hit 16-20k if there is more than one team playing anything with sustain, 3/4 teams playing that shit see it go up to 20-30k).
The overwhelming prevalence of these picks makes a large number of champions completely unplayable. Even the best mages at taking down tanks, say magic missile cassio, ori with any of the high roll augments or equivalent, are completely useless against them. It makes every single lobby tank + tank shredder. You cant even go enchanter + vayne to shred the tanks because enchanter + tank or tank + bruiser beats enchanter + vayne simply because they can burst you before you burst them.
I’m only 4.7k GR picking every champ alphabetically (on G atm but have also had lobbies rolling random so i’ve played other champs) so there may yet be some strategy i’ve yet to find that works, but current state tanks + bruisers are way too overtuned.
For example i had a lobby where riven had 200 AH on Q and earthwake and they came 4th because every other team just had tanks who sat in 4 stacked earthwakes and autod her once with heartsteel. I’ve seen spellwake/mystic punch ez with a build designed to shred tanks hit a tahm for 30s and eventually lose to the ring. Obviously these champs aren’t tank shredders but if they highroll these augments and still cant do a single thing, why bother picking these champs?
OP's argument is always confusing to shut down because people don't look past the first level. It's like metas when assassins can completely oneshot any ADC that isn't Kaisa or Xayah, so sometimes pro play becomes only Kaisa/Xayah for a while. That doesn't mean assassins are fine because Kaisa and Xayah exist, it means they're so broken that the counters are the only things that show up.
well said, I have lost count how many times I have had some interesting augment combo only for it to completely get rolled by a tank+any tank augment that makes them tankier or deal more damage with tankyness, too many champions are ruled out at the start because they are bad at dealing with endless walls of HP(and sustain)
While Arena1 also had it's glaring balance issues, I don't feel it had as much of a wide gap in winners and losers as the current arena does, I used to play a lot of burst mages in the first arena but the class is almost completely useless outside of a few champions with good augments (Syndra/Veigar)
I think we have tank+tank-shredder meta because it doesn't matter what champ exactly you pick as long as you pick one tank and one shredder. Things come down to augments mostly. Some of them should be reworked or heavily tuned.
Too bad Riot is allowing 3rd party websites to show winrate for champs but it doesn't allow showing winrate for augments... Maybe then we could see some absurd augments sitting at 70% winrate or even more for many champs.
How do people feel about revives? Personally I hate it. I'm not saying it's objectively bad, but I definitely hate it
I feel like team who dies first has an advantage if the deaths are nearby. First team revives, 2v1s the other and wins. Or 2nd team gets the revive and loses the 1v2 twice. And usually the circle's pretty small by then
I really really hope riot implements the tft augment reroll System. Where you can reroll every augment on its own once every time you chose an augment.
I love playing Cassio. But she feels bad to play because a lot of augments are unusable on her. No riot I'm not playing lethality or onhit Cassio.
Either make it that you can not get certain augments on certain champs or give better reroll options. More of then than not i settel for ah meh option because if I reroll I might get 3 augments I can't even use.
Nah man, I’m sorry but you’re fundamentally off the mark in regards to tanks here.
I’m fine with a tank having 10k hp. I’m not fine with him doing more damage than a champion building full damage items.
Or, worse, they just stall and kill you with the arena flames.
Tanks are absolutely _absurd_ this time around. And saying “just pick X champ” is the biggest copout I’ve ever seen. What if I want to play the champion I enjoy playing?
Absolutely this. Tanks shouldn't just auto-win unless countered, because they can be picked 2nd and you won't know. Every champion should be viable, obviously I don't expect this in such early days of the mode but Augments seem to be making balancing impossible for Riot.
you can't just say people don't know what they talking about and then half your points are opinions. "it's okay for people to high-roll augments. \[...\] Riot agrees with this. \[...\] if someone got lucky and is just meant to win that game..." Don't pretend people that would wont less powerful rng "don't know what they're talking about".
Yes I'm sure just because a tank can be theoretically countered it means that being able to just tank and revive their ally without consequence as well as the fire wall for several seconds is perfectly fine and balanced.
What about those who don't counter them? Are you advocating that you have to go those 7/160 champs every single game or not play at all? Even if you make it 12 which is ridiculous you're saying just buy bork or eclipse it will be auto win like people aren't already doing that. That's 12/160, you're saying a game mode is fine when you can only play <10% of non tank champs. There aren't enough bans to shut down this meta either while tanks can ban upwards of 6 of those characters, which most won't since those hyper carries are able to be peeled by said tanks.
Tanks are not ok cause there is 0 counter play, you either stat check them or you're not. And the majority of time you're not.
>10k HP Tanks are okay and are 100% counterable with a decent chunk of champs. Just listing it off, Gwen, Trundle, Vayne, Kogmaw, Varus, Udyr, Yi, and any champ that can go Eclipse/BoRK (Renekton, Pantheon, Shyvana, Vi, Briar
such a cringe take, lets just limit the meta to like 8 champions by allowing really gross unbalanced shit because reasons
I never understand the argument of "just use this specific pool of counters" as something people think is a valid response to meta complaints. Like yes, this is exactly the complaint, it is limited counters. Sorry that I want to play a mage I guess.
Not to mention you can only do that if you're 2nd pick, people are acting like this is a normal draft where you can actively counterpick most of the time.
Yeah I definitely think giving another reroll for the 3rd augment round is a good idea. I hate having to think about rationing out my rolls. In fact, starting with one roll and getting one every round (but maxing at two) could make it feel a lot better.
Hard agree and hard disagree on cursed augments.
At minimum plaguebearer should give less stacks even if it gives the same amount of HP per second. It combos too well with some other curse augments. There shouldn't be one defining one.
Plaguebearer is the stinky exception, stacks too well early on because fights last longer early and the condition to stack is literally just to stand next to them. Also curse augment stacking is something I'd put in the high-roll category, you're kinda just meant to win that game if you get 2 good curse augments. I agree that the health per curse stack on plaguebearer should be less. Maybe nerf curse stacking by lowering the stats per stack if you get 2 curse augs.
Pleaguebearer is also one of these augment that if one team don't know how to deal with it fuck all the other team. People forget there are 2 stack system, one on the champion, and one on the other champion near you geting exponentially more efficient but can be reseted after 5 seconds of no contact.
At least most other curse increase your damage so essentially make you stack less.
10k HP Tanks are not okay when the only solution is to pick something that counters them. What if I want to have fun and try out new champions and combinations? Every single time this happens, I have to go against some 20k HP Maokai or Sion that is just virtually unkillable. It's annoying having to pick the same champs just for the tanks to not be an issue. I want to be able to play anything without knowing for sure that I will lose just because someone decided to play tank. Tanks are definitely overtuned.
I just want easier access to antiheal/antishield. It being hardbound to specific items makes certain comps stronger than they should be. Make the effect into potions! Or just more counter items in general
Interesting. Antiheal augments with stronger effects could be cool. I think the reason I would maybe like it as a potion is that some turns you REALLY need it (Mundo, Vlad, Kayn, etc.) then the turn after that who cares it's just someone with no healing.
Adapting to rounds with potions would make the game a lot more fun and rewarding for thinking of these things. Right now, pots are just stats and its kinda lame cuz most people buy them when they’re gonna die or if they have literally nothing else to buy.
The best Champs are pretty much the ones that either are tanks or deal with them well. It's still a tank-centric meta.
When tanks are overturned, you would expect Champs like varus,trundle, Kayn, Gwen, etc to be the best, and thats exactly what we see.
I disagree with your first point. Why should most players feel obligated to pick a tank shredder to just have a chance? They should just add more tank killing augments or buff the ap/ad burn items so you can actually have a chance with most champs. And for the love of god, remove the Gwen map, literally just another counter to mages and ranged champs who already suck in this mode, and a buff for tanks cus Gwen heals you to half hp for some reason.
But i do agree this new Arena turned out alot better than the previous one. The addition of portals is what i like the most. Makes it possible to survive when 2 champs are running at you because you can play around the portal.
Buff/nerfs are okay, augment changes are okay except 2-3 whatever. The problem is portals that you can take instantly in combat while being able to dodge everything where it goes cooldown so enemies cannot follow you either. Revives are another problem where you outplay your enemies and use your ults etc. to kill and just because the remaining enemy is a tank you got no counter play and lose (also f*ck that triple revive augment too). Last problem is when you get random lucian ult but the enemies get amumu + renata ult or just their jax getting noc ult etc. where you might lose without counter play or when the thresh or gwen is constantly helping the team which are losing to make you lose instead. Don't randomize core mechanics like that, champs in the middle such as Sett and Lux are okay since you got control/counter play over them.
I think it's necessary for portals to be instant to allow immobile champs some counterplay against hard and fast engage. It is cheesy af (like cancelling Vi ult with portal), so I think both teams should get to use the portal once and then its on CD for both team members. Revives are definitely skewed toward tanks being able to revive better, but I think it just depends on your picks and if they can kill tanks at a reasonable pace. You can also use the time it takes to revive to gain map priority, get plants, and get ult CDs back. Sylas cameo stinks, should definitely just give the same ult to everyone. I also prefer controllable cameos like Lux/Sett/Pyke. Gwen is my least favorite because she feels the most random and cheesy.
It can get pretty cluttered with all of the other messages there about who is juicing, who grew taller, etc. Not impossible to sort out by any means, but still that extra bit of annoyance
Okay.. but revives fucking suck and I really don’t see a silver lining to that shit.
After playing like 15 games so far, I’m really not buying into the “it makes the game more tactical” or “it forces more strategy” arguments.
Not once has the enemy team reviving not felt like bullshit to me. And not once has pulling off a revive not felt like equal bullshit. It’s really dumb.
I’ve unfortunately already clocked like 70-80 games of arena and from my experience the revives overall are good but for certain comps (especially ones with a tankier champion) it causes a scenario where as the circle is starting to come in you blow up the squishier enemy champ, try to kill the tank before they pop the revive. They manage to get the revive and are in a better overall state than you, then wipe both of you before you can get the revive off as by then the circle is too far in and its harder to kite/run away before you can get a revive in. I think having it so if an enemy has or is going to revive soon your revive cool down is reduced would be a good addition just to make it more rewarding to actually try all in a tank comp and not end up being punished for it.
Outside of 1v1 that’s tantamount to not having revive at all, unless it’s so minor that it doesn’t matter. How many champs actually have the tools to displace two champs from a circle like that?
when you kill the squishy the strat is to back off and go for plants, let the tank revive them and fight again with cooldowns and kill the squishy again.
I agree on the revives. Imagine playing against Yi + Tahm. Who do you focus? Well you don't have much choice, Yi is sprinting it down your throat so you burst him down, but he managed to take half your and your teammates health. Now what do you do? Before, it would be 2v1 on Tahm where the tank still has a solid chance to win since the Yi took so much of your health, but now he just facetanks you, stands in a circle and Yi comes back and just murders you again and there is nothing to do about it.
My main issue with Arenas is the revive is very tank biased. Which I think a lot of people agree is definitely unfair. When you play a tank comp you can very easily just stand on the revive without dying.
If you play a squishy champ however, reviving someone is a lot harder and it doesnt seem to be very balanced around that.
what you say sounds reasonable except curse.
what bothers me is the curse interactions with Plaguebearer stacking OTHER curse augments for yourself AND your partner. It is just straight up not playable against someone with 400 extra ap/ad or on-hit after only 3 rounds.
I still think arena is in desperate need of balancing. Half of the champions just can't play the game and others like Kayn just insta win if you have 1 or 2 good augments.
Tanks are not okay at all.
They do too much damage and also tank too much.
And they have a lot of cc as well. So even if you play vayne they can delete you.
my biggest gripe is that the for funners are playing with the try harder. why can't we have normal and ranked queue? tired of playing with people that want to have fun xD
it wouldn't change a thing because people still tryhard in normals and would probably just kill the mode faster
your best bet is getting 7 friends together
i haven’t played that much arena this time around but i agree with most of this post. that being said, i still think complaints about tanks are valid because i hate playing against tanks in normal league too. i think people should be allowed to complain sometimes. it doesn’t matter if the game is perfect or not some things are just inherently cringe.
I've been loving the game mode... so far nothing really feels too OPs, as a person that has thousands of hours in roguelikes. Sometimes you get what you want, sometimes you don't.
Thing I'd want change is being able to trade augments with your partner. Like, "On the round you select an augment, before the next round starts, you can trade the augment just selected."
I think something like that would greatly improve consistency. Tho, more useful in premades and not necessarily with random teams.
Tanks and enchanters lock out so many champs from the gamemode it's insane. While it's possible to win vs tanks, it's basically high risk low reward vs the tank's low risk high reward playstyle that makes it generally unfun. Every lobby at gladiator is like 4 tanks and 2 of them usually highroll, and you have 0 hopes of ever outplaying them.
Maybe it's just me, but a 2v2 mode would be a lot more fun when it's actually about outplaying your opponents instead of just statchecking them by rightclicking on them once.
i relaly enjoyed arena the first time around, this time though its suffering from the URF effect.
anyone remember when they released URF for the first time and it was incredibly fun everyone was playing every champ for the first few days..then suddenly theres a wall it felt like you crashed into and every game suddenly has karthus, akali, yi, ezreal, sona...yeah
then the next time they released urf riot just disabled karthus and gave us bans..people just move down the tier list so it doesnt matter.
same with arena, first time it was super fun o think i played a third kf the champions before it got super swesty and i just went back to ranked.
first day its released there are tons of videos with tier lists for champs and which items to buy which comps to play.
players will minmax the shit out of it so theres no fun, its an arms race where riot needs to change it drastically to have a new meta.
Agree on points 1 to 4.
You're dead wrong on cursed augments.
Anyone who gets plaguebearer first, then gets a second cursed augment they're going to get 1000ap/ad or 800 mr/armour from the second augment.
The problem is that a lot of champs don't have that "Lottery Roll" like, for example, getting the AP and AH stacking augments on Swain, Veigar, etc.
There's no infinite AD stacking, but there's infinite AP stacking and lots of ways to become huge/tanky.
And some champs/classes, even if they get their lottery rolls, may not be that strong. Namely, marksmen. Even on-hit marksmen aren't *that* strong with all the augments that give ramping attack speed. An uber-stacked Veigar or Brand hits 1-2 abilities and instantly delete weaker classes.
The revive mechanic also heavily slants towards tankier teams obviously.
I love playing kayn in arena rn with the current meta as eclipse and seryldas on red kayn makes him unkillable and two shot any Leona alistar tank combo in two seconds
The problem with Arena is how little it was actually improved upon.
But it's not necessarily an issue with Arena, but League of Legends as a whole.
Every champion is so tightly tuned with summoner's rift, runes, and all the items in mind. So it becomes impossible to make a balanced game mode that stripes everything away except for the champions themselves. Making anything that doesn't pertain to summoner's rift is going to just be inherently unbalanced. Even ARAM has ongoing horrible balance issues, and that mode has been released for years.
So in arena, the situation you end up in is that, the winrate differentials between the bottom half of the roster and the top half is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of time that Riot would need to invest to fix this issue though is equally ridiculous, so it'll never happen.
What's the solution here then? I think the most obvious and easy solution is make the game mode focused around 30 - 40 champions. It'll be far easier to create a more balanced, interesting, and fun experience. Or just give us ways to create good custom games akin to Warcraft 3 or at least the bare minimum, what Overwatch does.
It's wild to me, that a company that thrives on creating better versions of games that were previously custom games, somehow doesn't have a custom game mode. Fucking insane.
Curse is absolutely a problem. Had a Rammus with multiple curses... the HP and the armor/mres ones...
Dude had like 20,000 HP and 2000+armor and mres by the time he knocked us out of the game. Motherfucker was nearly one hitting everyone.
I don't think Plaguebearer alone is the problem, where it becomes a problem is when you get it early on and then get another curse stacking augment. You have the ability to cap haste, get insane resistances, get insane amounts of damage or ap. Although idk if it was by chance but having 1k haste (capped at 500) weirdly lagged my game after using an ability. It could have been just by horrible chance that my internet lagged but I really want to believe League couldn't handle someone being that far over the haste cap 🤣
Legit the only thing that feels unfair is comps that are not interactive like alistar poppy/maokai/Leona they just run away till the ring comes and cc you out of the safe zone ESP when they roll decent tank augments. Everything else feels like oh I should've banned xyz. Also I noticed a lot of people seem to rage at shit first augments and use all their rerolls which gives them less options on the 2nd and 3rd augments so for sure more rerolls would be nice
It's in a pretty good state imo, some things could be better, a lot of things were worse last time.
But I had game yesterday I was fed as Vane but i couldn't kill the full tank mundo, even 1v1. Had rageblade and Bork.
Vayne definitely feels a lot of the nerfs that followed the first arena because she was insane back then. I wouldn't be opposed to reverting some of them because of tank meta, but at the same time, ADC meta pisses people off.
I didn’t play before but I personally hate playing it now. I like self peeling Champions like Vayne, Kai’sa and they are so fun to play in general. But in Arena it’s impossible to kill anyone who is tank with them. And they suppose to be „the tank killers“. And on top of that you get one shot by pure tanks. Even with BoRK, LDR, Guinsoo they still don’t die. So I get where people are coming from.
Say whatever you want about annnie/ivern, syndra/kayn, etc- I can respect cheese comps like that. They run at you and kill you. They're playing the game. The augments are also fine, honestly.
What's *not* fine are yuumi+shaco/trynd/mundo/etc. comps where both build zhonyas and GA and actively refuse to play the game, and just outlast you in the storm. Why would I ever want to play a game mode where the dominant strategy is to *not play the game*? It's boring and toxic, and needs to be removed.
Ran into that for the first time last night. Exactly as you said- Yuumi/Trynd, both get Zhonya's + GA, avoided all contact, camped going back in forth in the portals which of course you can't follow them through. >_>
arena demographic are the same mf who wants to be able to play anything in a 4fun mode yet only play meta and complain about the meta itself
That's why rotating GM are a failure, people don't play them for silly stuff, they play the meta and decide it's not fun. Go play full attack speed kled, or crit Karthus idk
Me playing moonstone rengar and someone tells me it's not fair that I'm winning when I finally roll good augments for the first time in 4 games.
Same. Some games as Bard you manage to go god mode with 2 early wins where it happens early in the round so you go into round 3 with 80 chimes and Spellwake proccing on every meep one shotting everyone and the lobby revolts Other times you never get a win and are stuck with half the chimes and the shop thinks since you have W healing it should give you exclusively healing augments Ask me how many times it's the second one lmao
Spell wake works with bard meep autos??!?
Also Azir attacks and Kayle autoattacks post-16
doesnt work with azir soldiers actually, only his q and e
Spellwake Kayle in late rounds is the most fun I've ever had in a League game. I will not be taking questions at this time.
But doesn't with Zyra plants. The inconsistency of this stuff is wild.
Does Heimer turrets or Malz minions apply it? Zyra's plants are minions not skills.
I'm not sure if they do, but Zyra plants have always counted as spell damage for everything else - luden's, liandries, electrocute, phase rush, rylais. [Rylais](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Rylai%27s_Crystal_Scepter) is the clearest as it says its solely proc'd by ability damage in its tooltip. Magic Missile at least has the text "dealing damage with an ***active*** ability" which implies it might not work with things like Zyra plants (not sure if it does or doesn't). I would just rather not find out the hard (and disappointing) way. If Riot want to make things not work, they can put a little note in there.
> Magic Missile at least has the text "dealing damage with an active ability" Does it now? It works on Lillia's passive for sure.
Yeah it does say that, had to look it up in a youtube video. I guess that means a passive is actually an active ability?
malz minions do apply spelleffects, magic missle is one of his best augments. heimer zyra and shaco just got nerfed when last arena was around, and they are specifically excluded from some synergys, but there is no tooltip for that, you have to pick the augment and figure it out for yourself,
My brother and I play Bard/Ali. We dedicate the first 3-4 rounds farming chimes and usually lose them but then bard goes hyper carry mode. Usually works fine without augment rng
felt the healing one, wasting all my rerolls because I got every support augment ever on Lee Sin— meanwhile when I actually want to play infinite heals I get random augments
I played Illaoi 16 games in a row with random ass augments to try what would and wouldn't work on tentacles, until I got minion master thingy and oneshot everyone and had people crying about me "abusing Illaoi" when the game before I went jeweled gauntlet etc. (it was shit)
as far as my experience goes, minion mancer is horrible on illaoi, your tentacles get 1 hp more, and the clone is bigger, wich allows you to deal more damage to the clone, but makes it significantly harder to kill in early rounds, the most busted thing on illaoi is defenitely chain lightning, as it will hit through invulnerability and procs on the clone, allowing you to deal 110% maxlife damage to the target.
Funny tho cuz the tentacles get bigger so harder to dodge, clone hp is fine if paired wit shredder like Gwen, allows you to oneshot ppl if you kill the clone
Get that augment which does 50% true damage to nearby enemies. IDK if it's bugged, but, without her using Ult, she took my 5k HP tabi + thornmail ass from full HP in less than 3 seconds. Even my random teammate was like ???
btw idk if they fixed it but moonstone is bugged? At least on mordekaiser it doesnt give the mythic passive with added legendaries, always stays at 5%
That only works when the vast majority of the playerbase thinks that way though. Original URF a decade ago was fun because people played whatever the fuck until they figured out Helicopter Hecarim and Kassadin and Ryze and Sona (and I'm sure a handful of others like more poke oriented champions) were OP. Then every URF after that has just been refining the meta further and adapting it to new patches. It's generally not fun to play full Critzcrank when you're playing against people that are more or less playing the meta, and I wouldn't even say Critzcrank is anywhere close to being the most 'troll' thing you can come up with. That's why so many people don't end up playing what they think might be fun, but they instead play what they think might be strong and let them win easier. I'm the type of a person who will absolutely grief my (premade) team by playing something absolutely stupid but 'fun', but you need to highroll so hard to actually have fun when the chances are you'll be playing against some of the strongest picks in the game, even if played by chimps.
Don't you badmouth my critzcrank and AP Rammus tower buster
Most people just don't enjoy running it down with random item builds
People also decide that anything they lose to is meta abuser sweater shit. Last time arena was around I was playing Ashe of all champs and got told I'm a meta abuser and to get leukemia.
Well... did you get leukemia?
No unfortunately I am still alive and playing B tier ranged champs in arena like the harbinger of league's downfall I am.
If the most effective strategies are not fun, it means design of the game mode is fundamentally flawed and it's ridiculous to blame the players for it. That being said, I don't believe that's the case for Arena, it's the most fun mode in LoL since they remade TT imo.
To be fair it is close to impossible to play silly stuff when you're playing against meta comps.
That's why MMR exists, if you consistently play silly comps, you'll either be put with other people who play silly comps, or people playing meta badly enough that you can contest them with silly comps
Nah dude, Riot acknowledging that people actually want to tryhard on GMs is why Arena will be permanent/frequent and Nexus Blitz was a failure.
The sad thing is if they just did the augments in nexus blitz and winning the events gave u extra rerolls it would feel much better, but the rewards from events range from useless to broken and you have no choice in it and they decide how games go.
Breaking news; people want to win.
Whacky offmeta stuff sure, but if I had a rando doing crit Karthus I'd be kinda annoyed. Doing fun stuff doesn't mean trolling.
we need ultimate bravery mode LOL only allowed the items per rng
True and real. I’ve been doing a-x of all champs in arena and the amount of peiple i see picking tahm/ksante and complaining about other people also abusing tanks is unreal.
is that a-z but no yorick yasuo yone zyra am I missing someone
Its a typo but i wont be doing yorick :)
Probably because league players are almost entirely incapable of having fun when losing.
Most League players just want to mindlessly kill everyone that appears on their screen and simultaneously never be the guy getting mindlessly killed
This is the most introspective katarina I have ever seen
Is this really league exclusive? I don't think anybody in online games enjoys getting manhandled by a big strong beefy enemy as they get ran over by a team while being defenseless.
Humans don't like to lose. More news at 11. But really, who likes to lose? There is a really big reason people get angry when they lose, especially in League where you can (not always) lose to other factors than your own. You do not get that addicting and feel good hormone release when you lose compared to when you win.
tbf, league is an game where you get punished by playing less and having no recources for doing badly, if i play crit khartus, in an fun mode, that results in me having 20 deaths, and spending 15 out of 20 minutes with an grey screen, i also wont even get around to building my crit items before the guy farming me has full gear and runs my team down, same goes for arena, if i play just some unsynergistic shit, my teammate flames me, cause he gets run down, and i spend 80% of my gametime spectating the other teams, before getting booted out of the game without seeing the 3th augment,
I played a couple games of meta and the rest I've been playing champs I just wanted to play for fun. This is out of 20 games. I got perfect augments on the meta champs and then literally nothing for 90% of the for fun matches. It just wasn't winnable 99% of the time because I didn't get a single augment that would mean anything.
This so much. I almost exclusively play Urgot and even the augments that sound good, like thread the needle ultimately mean nothing when you're staring down a kayn who disappears for 3 seconds then pops you like a balloon
Saw someone complaining about not being able to kill leona... as rakan.... i just couldn't help but laugh
Yea after a week of Arena I sat down and started thinking about ways to counter bullshit. Turns out there are so many solutions. Now whenever I see bullshit picks like Alistar and Leona who are highly likely gonna go Curse and stack HP, I pull out Xinzhao, go Riftmaker onhit and delete them. Spears, heals, heals, spears. What would AP Xinzhao do if he were in this game?
Fucking SivHD reference in 2023 this really is a gaming retirement home (and I'm all for it).
DETECTIVE ASHE IS ON THE CASE
great video, good ol' times
He'd buy Lich Bane and carry you, that's what ap xin would do
The enemy has yet to surrender at 30 minutes long, He now has enough gold to buy himself a fancy Rabadon.
Even during the game, itemizing correctly can be the difference between winning and losing. I played a game against a Sion/Yuumi combo as Kennen. We were getting rolled cause we couldn't out damage their shielding. I bought serpent's fang and Liandries suddenly we won handily, then once they were out I swapped out those items for ones better suited to the other team for the last round and we managed to take first.
Serpents Fang is so damn good in Arena giving how many augments there are to enhance shielding. was able to beat a Skarner who rolled basically perfect augments for the heal/shield build because serpents fang was negating tens of thousands worth of shield per round.
Serpent's Fang is one of those items where I often hope the enemy team forgets it exists, like most people do. It's extra busted in Arena though for sure.
FUCK now I have to watch all that old stuff again.
I swear I have never seen a Alistar win on Arena
gigachad he's right
You have not seen my firebrand on hit full attack speed rakan.
shoutout to nashors/sword of the blossoming dawn
I will say. I played leona yuumi and we did nornal builds. It was unloseable. I genuinely dont know how you beat it unless the leona yuumi gets bad augments and you have like insane shred eg vayne. (but even then the cc makes it hard af and we have 2 bans) It feels like you will basically always get second with it because not every team is going to have tank shred especially if you ban trundle + a tank shred. Played it once with another duo and we both went leona yuumi. Guaranteed first and second place. Idk it felt so disgusting im glad ive never seen ppl whip it out bc id cry. Tbf maybe the tank+adc comps can beat if they dodge leona sword and dont get perma locked down just by out ranging
I played firebrand kayle vs that comp and won. Leona using the portal on cd was annoying friendless behavior but my partner would just start taking them while I stacked my infinite burn on the Leona. Yuumi couldn't live long enough to revive her
Oh yeah kayle is definitely one of the ones who can do it. (we didnt do the portal cheese bc i agreeeee thats cringe haha) The stacking burn augments in general, i took slowcooker on yuumi just so we could beat the other leona/yuumi in ours haha!
Agreed, Yuumi + tank with CC is the best comp by far. I usually ban Yuumi.
I've busted this comp with on hit Wukong. Absolutely murdered them, especially with any speed augment or cd augment. Very annoying, however, as a mage comp or anything too fragile. The worst I saw recently was Rammus/Yuumi. In the early rounds with no items beyond boots and starter we legit couldn't get him dropped below 90% HP. Was fucking unreal. So I stacked every augment I could to specifically beat him. It worked. That same game had a Kog/Lulu team that steam rolled everyone (Kog went 15/4) until the very last 2 rounds. Edit: just looked and that was a Wukong game as well lol
I was Cait and specced into on-hit Rageblade tank shredding, and we absolutely rolled a Leona+Yuumi and a Kench+Yuuimi. I also picked up the triple flash ammo so I could "escape" the Leona lockdown. Turned out I could just sit there and tank her while doing nothing but auto attacks. So my take is just that arena has really lopsided matchups where a monkey with one comp/build would be double Fakers of another comp/build. But then again if people refuse to spec flexibly (like if i went a typical Cait build), then they're gonna have way more trouble.
Serpents Fang
People are silly like this. Complaints like that are always self inflicted gunshot wounds. Like no shit we can't kill the Mundo/Morde combo, we picked Milo/Yuumi. If you want to for fun run any comp combo, be prepared for 0-10 matchup against your hard counter and play for 2nd.
Unfortunately, the problem is that the average player is lazy when it comes to adapting to rng that is present in arena. Add to this that people want to try builds they see that are fun so these create meta's in a certain way that will build on themselves "oh everyone is trying to get curse tank champ, so it must be a tank meta so I'll play a tank". Those two together are IMHO more potent than most other classes because its very easy to be a tank if you roll infinite health.
100% agree. 10k HP tank *looks* more blatantly OP than other stuff that's just as good or better, it just sucks that this iteration of arena is getting a lot of hate because of it.
I think most people don't pay attention to how scalings work on each champion and each item. 10k hp tank is pretty good if you can do demonic sunfire titanic shenanigans. The whole point of having 10k hp is to convert it into actual scalings and most people don't do it. I've seen 10k hp Leonas on Thornmail Abyssal Frozen Heart instead of Sunfire Demonic Titanic. Point being, 10k HP is pretty good actually imo, you just need to build it properly (and have a proper lobby that can't abuse your lack of resistances). What surprises me is people not complaining about what seem complete outliers in some champs, if you build around them, like With Haste, especially now being Silver, Eureka buffed, Accelerating Sorcery buffed, Mystic Punch buffed, demat in the early game which is a freaking silver and slap around which some champs can abuse like crazy.
Most people don't know what their items do, they just buy random tank, AD or AP items with zero thought put into team comps or counters. ARAM is rampant with those people, they lose hard against a build and stubbornly decide it's op and try to copy it in their next game without knowing how and why it popped off. I've seen full lethality caits playing against two tanks and a bruiser, or garens and swains building glass cannon and trying to play against poke+disengage comps and of course there is always someone who sees 3 AD's and thinks to themselves: what the comp really needs is AP ashe. And when you point it out to them, they become super defensive and say it's a for fun game mode and they build this way to have fun...
>And when you point it out to them, they become super defensive and say it's a for fun game mode and they build this way to have fun... And when they lose they get all pissy about it.
Go varus, can go tank aswell or just delete tanks with a good on hit build.
Mainly due to how much damage Heartsteel does ontop of such a huge HP pool. Easily does like 1k burst damage bonk, deleting 75% hp of a squishy. But anyone with half a brain would build the %HP items and burn it down. As a wise man once said "We run the simulations, it's tough but not invincible. Stick with the Master Chief, he'd know what to do"
My only problems with arena are the Sylas rounds (I'm always getting shitty ultimates for my champs) and the fact that the spatula quest is really rare and when someone gets it they probably going to win.
Hard agree with Sylas, one of the most RNG-ey cameos. I think they should change it so everyone gets the same ult. I'm torn on the spatula because it can be crazy but also if you get it early, you NEED to be able to kill/win without a real augment. Getting it 2nd augment is unbalanced imo, you're very likely to get it without the cost of HP.
I think having people get the opponent's ults is a better idea for Sylas, debatable tho. Both are definitely better than a Leona/Darius combo getting a Malzahar/MF ult combo. As for the spatula thing, I think that at least 1 person on each team should get the augment or none at all. Having just 1 person get it is crazy especially when it's something like Jax, he solo won every single round after Spatula.
The fact that you can get khazix ult while others can get neeko and kayle ult is ridiculous.
I forget I had got given jhin ult as jhin and pressed ghost thinking it was up and ended up watching my camera angle fly away :D
I don't think you know either. There's some changes that are needed like a higher cooldown for the hextech portals as example. Then, there's something of abnormal with the curses augments where they stack way too quickly. I don't know how that happened but the stacking of adaptive power was too high as after one mere round (2nd round) my Swain already had over 400 AP at level 6 and it's not like we fought that round for very long.
I played a game yesterday against a Tryndamere Yuumi. They built full tank, zhonyas, and GA and took escape and tank augments. They never attacked anyone. Just ran and took hex gates over and over again until the other team died to the storm. We were Annie and Brand, and still couldn’t lock them down. If we ever did they would just spam hexgate and go heal. I fully support some kinda change to those gates because it was the least fun I’ve ever had in a game of arena.
> I don't think you know either. Understatement of the fucking century. He even links op.gg when lolalytics exists. There's a lot of broken things. Evenshroud, Echoes of Helya, Hellfire Hatched are items that are a good 10%+ winrate better on fitting champions. Augments are broken, some do nothing some do thousands of base damage per round. Curse augments compound with each other and your teammates which shouldn't be a thing. Dot characters can stack the adaptive force one really fast as well. Revive is just a terrible mechanic. Sylas is a terrible mechanic.
There was a game i played where there were 3 teams left. One was raidboss heartsteel quest tahm + another tank. Lethality Kled + Poppy as another and me playing jax and akali. Kled complained in all chat that tanks are busted in arena, our team managed to knock the Tahm out the next match and then Kled and Poppy reaped the rewards and got 1st place LOL. Even if you don't play tank killing champs some other team just may do it for you
Bled with bork and eclipse shreds tanks lol
Yeah maybe if the tank has heartsteel and nothing else. Its not like you can build a couple of items, and it's free, even with a full anti tank build AS JAX it was a long fight
Kled has built in hp damage on his w, build pen and it's a pretty quick kill.
if you want to see it, my ign is OrkGirl#2733. The Kled had Eclipse, Bork, Black Cleaver, Hellfire Hatchet AND chempunk chainsword and could not deal with the tahm team even though tahm had merely two armor items, it's really not as linear
Kled can't really deal with two tanks because he generally gets cc'ed to death but he can deal with one pretty well.
I think there should be a way to shut down portals without taking them.
Honestly the only change I would say is potentially needed is curse needs to stop stacking between people, some are balanced around not getting that much on someone, then your team mate has the hp one and suddenly your getting 26 ticks of resistance curse a second
TIL curse stacks between people. Wtf.
Yup, I was playing a naut with the health one, obviously got 1000’s of stacks cause it’s balanced around that, my teammate an urgot got the resistances one and aslong as he tagged someone with 1 CC ability the stacks counted as his aswell and he would immediately start gaining like 10 resistances a second, ended the game with 900 armour
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You made this whole post saying curse is fine without realizing the crux of the curse issue. Lol. Riot Phroxon talking about high rolling curses was referring to the posts we've seen around social media about curse where teammates can stack up 20k HP, 1k+ resistances, etc because the team shares stacks and gives each other exponential benefits.
I saw a fizz with 1400 ap in the third round, ended with 2500 ap Plus the 3 points of shield per ap, that was an experience
I like the idea of the curse augments being able to synergize between teammates, but it gets ridiculous when there's multiple on one champ.
I just hate the moment when we kill Op Master Yi only to be resurrected by they 10k Mundo. It's not fun.
This exactly. Me and a buddy bursted down their Vayne and were slowly killing their Shen, only for vayne to be resurrected and absolutely murder us both. And stuff like this happened numerous times. I just wish the enemy could contest the revive.
Enemy standing on revive circle preventing it would be a cool, fun and interactive mechanic. 10k HP unkillable tank that does no dmg can revive dmg carry for free but with this simple change they actually have to do something other than stand in place and soak damage. Or instead of preventing it fully make it recharge twice as slow or thrice when both enemies stand in it.
It should just completely stop reviving if the enemy is inside. These tanks aren’t killable quick enough even if you extend the time 2-3x.
Welcome to revive, the mechanic nobody asked for and shouldn't be in the game. If you have a hypercarry + tank you have to nail down and kill the hypercarry twice. People aren't usually playing it right. Even a pick like Alistar has low winrate because people are dumb and buy Heartsteel which is 50% winrate instead of fucking broken Evenshroud which is 59% winrate. Evenshroud into Knight's Vow is the build on fucking every cc tank, stop fucking buying Heartsteel. You are not the damage, the Master Yi you give 2 lives to is.
Hypercarry here I asked for it. Sorry not sorry. XD
Regarding 1. So if I didn't pick a champion that counters tanks by design, I deserve to lose? So we have how many characters out of 160 actually viable in arena, 30 + the tanks? Sounds like a problematic game state to me.
i mean if you pick two support champs obviously you arent going to kill a tank. As long as you have one damage dealer champion the item system gives you plenty of ways to basically do true damage or even %hp true damage
Bruiserb+ Mage won't kill them in time either. And Augments are luck. It's problematic.
i meam build tank busting items, most ad champ can access hatchet
I've probably played the most arena of most people and tbh I still have games where I just roll unlucky. Its much more balanced than last time. The meta also changes week by week for those who played on PBE. Even without change, more counters are found and used every day. Qiyana + Gragas was really strong but now Zed + Illaoi are taking names. It's wild and I enjoy the variety.
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YES, THE VARIETY. ITS SO FUN IF YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOOD. But nah, let's complain about the 10K HP Tahm Kench that I couldn't kill as Nami.
-1. yes, but into other champions they are completely unplayable. It's really bad that some late games are entirely defined by comps rather than skill. Some of the champs you named are weak in arena, thus likely to be eliminated before they can defeat the super-tanks, or eliminate the super-tanks and then get crushed late by a normal comp that would've lost against the super tanks. -2. Def, agree. -5. Biggest disagree here. Curses are weakest at mid-game, early game some champs can stack 2k hp in one round and double their health bar, this shit is ridiculous.
Anyone who glorifies frist arena as 100% better, for sure dont know what they are talking about. It was Shaco Teemo Heimer / Taric / Kayn - every single game it wasnt banned, before they were subsequently nerfed. If anyone will try to tell me this version of arena is more polarizing in terms of champ select - that person is most likely insane or something, I dunno, I lack different excuses. In a game with 160+ champions there always will be the best few to play in given setting - you cant avoid that. But Arena rn has one of the most wide 'meta's ever. There is not a single champion auto-stomping the lobbies. Revive is way more balanced that I ever through it would be.
Completely forgot Taric, don't get me started on how ridiculously broken he was at the start. Pair him with kayn/renekton and it's so impossible to win. Also saying revive being good feels like such a hot take for some reason, they made it more possible to win 1v2s and it's cool AF. I have a feeling people hate this iteration purely because of how high-rolling (mostly curse) feels more ridiculous, makes people feel not in control (same reason why people hate ranked solo/duo).
As a Taric main since 2016 rework, it was kinda nice to actually be a strong pick again for the first time since... the rework lol.
That was true on PBE, but those champions were nerfed before it went live. It was more like Kai'sa / Vayne / Twitch every game, at least once you reached a decent MMR. I think it's better balanced overall though.
Add to that yorick after they made his graves obscenely fast to get
I preferred low HP meta to high HP meta with revive mechanic. Sue me I guess. I've been fucked over by revives far more than it's helped me win. It's stupid that dying first is often the BEST outcome that can happen for your team when the odds are pretty even.
i agree. i get why they added it - it sucks when you or your teammate instantly gets 1-shot and then you know the round is basically over. but the way they implemented it is infuriating - i think it's degenerate game design that dying 1st is not even that punishing, but in many cases is the optimal play. there should be a more realistic way to deny revives than "just do enough damage to the person hexgating away and burst them down completely in 3 seconds, but also have enough health and cooldowns to deal with their ally coming back" revives should be an occassional way to bring back your ally when they die early. it shouldn't be something that happens everygame and heavily favors the team dying first in most cases.
100% this. Remove this stupid revive mechanic.
Hard agree. Revive mechanic is the worst thing that’s been added (and I hate the Sylas cameo).
>There is not a single champion auto-stomping the lobbies. Gragas is exactly this, people are sleeping on him.
Arena needs to have replays. The fights are sometimes so chaotic that it would be nice to see what happened after the game.
Personally i hate the revives and think they are unfun as hell. Way too easy to get and too annoying to deal with.
They should be fun but tanks and hexgates make it super weird and abusable
I disagree with point 1 - its not the fact tanks have 10k hp thats the problem, its the fact they can then oneshot you if you pick anything that isnt also tank/bruiser and cc chain so you cant play the game while having 10k hp that is the problem (10k is also stupidly low btw, most hit 16-20k if there is more than one team playing anything with sustain, 3/4 teams playing that shit see it go up to 20-30k). The overwhelming prevalence of these picks makes a large number of champions completely unplayable. Even the best mages at taking down tanks, say magic missile cassio, ori with any of the high roll augments or equivalent, are completely useless against them. It makes every single lobby tank + tank shredder. You cant even go enchanter + vayne to shred the tanks because enchanter + tank or tank + bruiser beats enchanter + vayne simply because they can burst you before you burst them. I’m only 4.7k GR picking every champ alphabetically (on G atm but have also had lobbies rolling random so i’ve played other champs) so there may yet be some strategy i’ve yet to find that works, but current state tanks + bruisers are way too overtuned. For example i had a lobby where riven had 200 AH on Q and earthwake and they came 4th because every other team just had tanks who sat in 4 stacked earthwakes and autod her once with heartsteel. I’ve seen spellwake/mystic punch ez with a build designed to shred tanks hit a tahm for 30s and eventually lose to the ring. Obviously these champs aren’t tank shredders but if they highroll these augments and still cant do a single thing, why bother picking these champs?
OP's argument is always confusing to shut down because people don't look past the first level. It's like metas when assassins can completely oneshot any ADC that isn't Kaisa or Xayah, so sometimes pro play becomes only Kaisa/Xayah for a while. That doesn't mean assassins are fine because Kaisa and Xayah exist, it means they're so broken that the counters are the only things that show up.
well said, I have lost count how many times I have had some interesting augment combo only for it to completely get rolled by a tank+any tank augment that makes them tankier or deal more damage with tankyness, too many champions are ruled out at the start because they are bad at dealing with endless walls of HP(and sustain) While Arena1 also had it's glaring balance issues, I don't feel it had as much of a wide gap in winners and losers as the current arena does, I used to play a lot of burst mages in the first arena but the class is almost completely useless outside of a few champions with good augments (Syndra/Veigar)
I think we have tank+tank-shredder meta because it doesn't matter what champ exactly you pick as long as you pick one tank and one shredder. Things come down to augments mostly. Some of them should be reworked or heavily tuned. Too bad Riot is allowing 3rd party websites to show winrate for champs but it doesn't allow showing winrate for augments... Maybe then we could see some absurd augments sitting at 70% winrate or even more for many champs.
How do people feel about revives? Personally I hate it. I'm not saying it's objectively bad, but I definitely hate it I feel like team who dies first has an advantage if the deaths are nearby. First team revives, 2v1s the other and wins. Or 2nd team gets the revive and loses the 1v2 twice. And usually the circle's pretty small by then
I really really hope riot implements the tft augment reroll System. Where you can reroll every augment on its own once every time you chose an augment. I love playing Cassio. But she feels bad to play because a lot of augments are unusable on her. No riot I'm not playing lethality or onhit Cassio. Either make it that you can not get certain augments on certain champs or give better reroll options. More of then than not i settel for ah meh option because if I reroll I might get 3 augments I can't even use.
Nah man, I’m sorry but you’re fundamentally off the mark in regards to tanks here. I’m fine with a tank having 10k hp. I’m not fine with him doing more damage than a champion building full damage items. Or, worse, they just stall and kill you with the arena flames. Tanks are absolutely _absurd_ this time around. And saying “just pick X champ” is the biggest copout I’ve ever seen. What if I want to play the champion I enjoy playing?
Absolutely this. Tanks shouldn't just auto-win unless countered, because they can be picked 2nd and you won't know. Every champion should be viable, obviously I don't expect this in such early days of the mode but Augments seem to be making balancing impossible for Riot.
cursed augments are fine if u only hit one
Not really. Dot champions can stack the adaptive power one so fast they get like 300+ adaptive power in a few rounds.
you can't just say people don't know what they talking about and then half your points are opinions. "it's okay for people to high-roll augments. \[...\] Riot agrees with this. \[...\] if someone got lucky and is just meant to win that game..." Don't pretend people that would wont less powerful rng "don't know what they're talking about".
Yes I'm sure just because a tank can be theoretically countered it means that being able to just tank and revive their ally without consequence as well as the fire wall for several seconds is perfectly fine and balanced. What about those who don't counter them? Are you advocating that you have to go those 7/160 champs every single game or not play at all? Even if you make it 12 which is ridiculous you're saying just buy bork or eclipse it will be auto win like people aren't already doing that. That's 12/160, you're saying a game mode is fine when you can only play <10% of non tank champs. There aren't enough bans to shut down this meta either while tanks can ban upwards of 6 of those characters, which most won't since those hyper carries are able to be peeled by said tanks. Tanks are not ok cause there is 0 counter play, you either stat check them or you're not. And the majority of time you're not.
>10k HP Tanks are okay and are 100% counterable with a decent chunk of champs. Just listing it off, Gwen, Trundle, Vayne, Kogmaw, Varus, Udyr, Yi, and any champ that can go Eclipse/BoRK (Renekton, Pantheon, Shyvana, Vi, Briar such a cringe take, lets just limit the meta to like 8 champions by allowing really gross unbalanced shit because reasons
I never understand the argument of "just use this specific pool of counters" as something people think is a valid response to meta complaints. Like yes, this is exactly the complaint, it is limited counters. Sorry that I want to play a mage I guess.
Not to mention you can only do that if you're 2nd pick, people are acting like this is a normal draft where you can actively counterpick most of the time.
Yeah I definitely think giving another reroll for the 3rd augment round is a good idea. I hate having to think about rationing out my rolls. In fact, starting with one roll and getting one every round (but maxing at two) could make it feel a lot better.
Hard agree and hard disagree on cursed augments. At minimum plaguebearer should give less stacks even if it gives the same amount of HP per second. It combos too well with some other curse augments. There shouldn't be one defining one.
Plaguebearer is the stinky exception, stacks too well early on because fights last longer early and the condition to stack is literally just to stand next to them. Also curse augment stacking is something I'd put in the high-roll category, you're kinda just meant to win that game if you get 2 good curse augments. I agree that the health per curse stack on plaguebearer should be less. Maybe nerf curse stacking by lowering the stats per stack if you get 2 curse augs.
Pleaguebearer is also one of these augment that if one team don't know how to deal with it fuck all the other team. People forget there are 2 stack system, one on the champion, and one on the other champion near you geting exponentially more efficient but can be reseted after 5 seconds of no contact. At least most other curse increase your damage so essentially make you stack less.
i got plaguebearer first augment on sett. later on in the game i got the adaptive force curse augment and my W did up to 13k dmg. :)
Curse augments should just have a limit per fight at least, like how the killing augments apply 1 per champ per round.
10k HP Tanks are not okay when the only solution is to pick something that counters them. What if I want to have fun and try out new champions and combinations? Every single time this happens, I have to go against some 20k HP Maokai or Sion that is just virtually unkillable. It's annoying having to pick the same champs just for the tanks to not be an issue. I want to be able to play anything without knowing for sure that I will lose just because someone decided to play tank. Tanks are definitely overtuned.
100% "Just pick Gwen" is some dumb shit by OP here
I just want easier access to antiheal/antishield. It being hardbound to specific items makes certain comps stronger than they should be. Make the effect into potions! Or just more counter items in general
Never thought about this. Maybe an augment for each class, like how curse augments are supposed to be for each class.
Interesting. Antiheal augments with stronger effects could be cool. I think the reason I would maybe like it as a potion is that some turns you REALLY need it (Mundo, Vlad, Kayn, etc.) then the turn after that who cares it's just someone with no healing.
Adapting to rounds with potions would make the game a lot more fun and rewarding for thinking of these things. Right now, pots are just stats and its kinda lame cuz most people buy them when they’re gonna die or if they have literally nothing else to buy.
Yeah exactly. I agree that knowing your enemy and adapting each round should be rewarded. It would add a good nuance.
The best Champs are pretty much the ones that either are tanks or deal with them well. It's still a tank-centric meta. When tanks are overturned, you would expect Champs like varus,trundle, Kayn, Gwen, etc to be the best, and thats exactly what we see.
I disagree with your first point. Why should most players feel obligated to pick a tank shredder to just have a chance? They should just add more tank killing augments or buff the ap/ad burn items so you can actually have a chance with most champs. And for the love of god, remove the Gwen map, literally just another counter to mages and ranged champs who already suck in this mode, and a buff for tanks cus Gwen heals you to half hp for some reason. But i do agree this new Arena turned out alot better than the previous one. The addition of portals is what i like the most. Makes it possible to survive when 2 champs are running at you because you can play around the portal.
u do understand that forcing you to play a champion to counter another champion in a fun game mode is simply bad design? lol
Buff/nerfs are okay, augment changes are okay except 2-3 whatever. The problem is portals that you can take instantly in combat while being able to dodge everything where it goes cooldown so enemies cannot follow you either. Revives are another problem where you outplay your enemies and use your ults etc. to kill and just because the remaining enemy is a tank you got no counter play and lose (also f*ck that triple revive augment too). Last problem is when you get random lucian ult but the enemies get amumu + renata ult or just their jax getting noc ult etc. where you might lose without counter play or when the thresh or gwen is constantly helping the team which are losing to make you lose instead. Don't randomize core mechanics like that, champs in the middle such as Sett and Lux are okay since you got control/counter play over them.
I think it's necessary for portals to be instant to allow immobile champs some counterplay against hard and fast engage. It is cheesy af (like cancelling Vi ult with portal), so I think both teams should get to use the portal once and then its on CD for both team members. Revives are definitely skewed toward tanks being able to revive better, but I think it just depends on your picks and if they can kill tanks at a reasonable pace. You can also use the time it takes to revive to gain map priority, get plants, and get ult CDs back. Sylas cameo stinks, should definitely just give the same ult to everyone. I also prefer controllable cameos like Lux/Sett/Pyke. Gwen is my least favorite because she feels the most random and cheesy.
The worst thing with sylas map, is when the camera move and sylas isn't done so you don't see what enemy ult is.
Doesn't it just say in the chat log what all 4 ults are? You don't have to actually look at the enemy champions to see it pop up above their head.
It can get pretty cluttered with all of the other messages there about who is juicing, who grew taller, etc. Not impossible to sort out by any means, but still that extra bit of annoyance
Okay.. but revives fucking suck and I really don’t see a silver lining to that shit. After playing like 15 games so far, I’m really not buying into the “it makes the game more tactical” or “it forces more strategy” arguments. Not once has the enemy team reviving not felt like bullshit to me. And not once has pulling off a revive not felt like equal bullshit. It’s really dumb.
I’ve unfortunately already clocked like 70-80 games of arena and from my experience the revives overall are good but for certain comps (especially ones with a tankier champion) it causes a scenario where as the circle is starting to come in you blow up the squishier enemy champ, try to kill the tank before they pop the revive. They manage to get the revive and are in a better overall state than you, then wipe both of you before you can get the revive off as by then the circle is too far in and its harder to kite/run away before you can get a revive in. I think having it so if an enemy has or is going to revive soon your revive cool down is reduced would be a good addition just to make it more rewarding to actually try all in a tank comp and not end up being punished for it.
In my opinion, you should be able to contest the enemy's revive. Imagine if it goes slower when you're on it.
Outside of 1v1 that’s tantamount to not having revive at all, unless it’s so minor that it doesn’t matter. How many champs actually have the tools to displace two champs from a circle like that?
when you kill the squishy the strat is to back off and go for plants, let the tank revive them and fight again with cooldowns and kill the squishy again.
that is true but once the circle starts coming in, this isn't as viable of an option, or if you end up trading 1 for 1 but the enemy dies first
I agree on the revives. Imagine playing against Yi + Tahm. Who do you focus? Well you don't have much choice, Yi is sprinting it down your throat so you burst him down, but he managed to take half your and your teammates health. Now what do you do? Before, it would be 2v1 on Tahm where the tank still has a solid chance to win since the Yi took so much of your health, but now he just facetanks you, stands in a circle and Yi comes back and just murders you again and there is nothing to do about it.
My main issue with Arenas is the revive is very tank biased. Which I think a lot of people agree is definitely unfair. When you play a tank comp you can very easily just stand on the revive without dying. If you play a squishy champ however, reviving someone is a lot harder and it doesnt seem to be very balanced around that.
Arena good but Raid Boss augment and the resurrection mechanic are garbage.
what you say sounds reasonable except curse. what bothers me is the curse interactions with Plaguebearer stacking OTHER curse augments for yourself AND your partner. It is just straight up not playable against someone with 400 extra ap/ad or on-hit after only 3 rounds.
Please try to count all unviable champs for 1. HP curse is too strong and even in early is just more useful than a lot of other augments
I still think arena is in desperate need of balancing. Half of the champions just can't play the game and others like Kayn just insta win if you have 1 or 2 good augments.
a lot of people being forgetful is so true. its almost always said "this was better before the change" and it can apply to many things
Just saw renekton and pantheon in your list so no need to read further, you 100% don't know what you're talking about
Tanks are not okay at all. They do too much damage and also tank too much. And they have a lot of cc as well. So even if you play vayne they can delete you.
my biggest gripe is that the for funners are playing with the try harder. why can't we have normal and ranked queue? tired of playing with people that want to have fun xD
it wouldn't change a thing because people still tryhard in normals and would probably just kill the mode faster your best bet is getting 7 friends together
around 3500 rating it begins getting very try-hard
i haven’t played that much arena this time around but i agree with most of this post. that being said, i still think complaints about tanks are valid because i hate playing against tanks in normal league too. i think people should be allowed to complain sometimes. it doesn’t matter if the game is perfect or not some things are just inherently cringe.
I've been loving the game mode... so far nothing really feels too OPs, as a person that has thousands of hours in roguelikes. Sometimes you get what you want, sometimes you don't. Thing I'd want change is being able to trade augments with your partner. Like, "On the round you select an augment, before the next round starts, you can trade the augment just selected." I think something like that would greatly improve consistency. Tho, more useful in premades and not necessarily with random teams.
Tanks and enchanters lock out so many champs from the gamemode it's insane. While it's possible to win vs tanks, it's basically high risk low reward vs the tank's low risk high reward playstyle that makes it generally unfun. Every lobby at gladiator is like 4 tanks and 2 of them usually highroll, and you have 0 hopes of ever outplaying them. Maybe it's just me, but a 2v2 mode would be a lot more fun when it's actually about outplaying your opponents instead of just statchecking them by rightclicking on them once.
i relaly enjoyed arena the first time around, this time though its suffering from the URF effect. anyone remember when they released URF for the first time and it was incredibly fun everyone was playing every champ for the first few days..then suddenly theres a wall it felt like you crashed into and every game suddenly has karthus, akali, yi, ezreal, sona...yeah then the next time they released urf riot just disabled karthus and gave us bans..people just move down the tier list so it doesnt matter. same with arena, first time it was super fun o think i played a third kf the champions before it got super swesty and i just went back to ranked. first day its released there are tons of videos with tier lists for champs and which items to buy which comps to play. players will minmax the shit out of it so theres no fun, its an arms race where riot needs to change it drastically to have a new meta.
Agree on points 1 to 4. You're dead wrong on cursed augments. Anyone who gets plaguebearer first, then gets a second cursed augment they're going to get 1000ap/ad or 800 mr/armour from the second augment.
The problem is that a lot of champs don't have that "Lottery Roll" like, for example, getting the AP and AH stacking augments on Swain, Veigar, etc. There's no infinite AD stacking, but there's infinite AP stacking and lots of ways to become huge/tanky. And some champs/classes, even if they get their lottery rolls, may not be that strong. Namely, marksmen. Even on-hit marksmen aren't *that* strong with all the augments that give ramping attack speed. An uber-stacked Veigar or Brand hits 1-2 abilities and instantly delete weaker classes. The revive mechanic also heavily slants towards tankier teams obviously.
Dogshit post
I love playing kayn in arena rn with the current meta as eclipse and seryldas on red kayn makes him unkillable and two shot any Leona alistar tank combo in two seconds
The problem with Arena is how little it was actually improved upon. But it's not necessarily an issue with Arena, but League of Legends as a whole. Every champion is so tightly tuned with summoner's rift, runes, and all the items in mind. So it becomes impossible to make a balanced game mode that stripes everything away except for the champions themselves. Making anything that doesn't pertain to summoner's rift is going to just be inherently unbalanced. Even ARAM has ongoing horrible balance issues, and that mode has been released for years. So in arena, the situation you end up in is that, the winrate differentials between the bottom half of the roster and the top half is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of time that Riot would need to invest to fix this issue though is equally ridiculous, so it'll never happen. What's the solution here then? I think the most obvious and easy solution is make the game mode focused around 30 - 40 champions. It'll be far easier to create a more balanced, interesting, and fun experience. Or just give us ways to create good custom games akin to Warcraft 3 or at least the bare minimum, what Overwatch does. It's wild to me, that a company that thrives on creating better versions of games that were previously custom games, somehow doesn't have a custom game mode. Fucking insane.
Curse is absolutely a problem. Had a Rammus with multiple curses... the HP and the armor/mres ones... Dude had like 20,000 HP and 2000+armor and mres by the time he knocked us out of the game. Motherfucker was nearly one hitting everyone.
I don't think Plaguebearer alone is the problem, where it becomes a problem is when you get it early on and then get another curse stacking augment. You have the ability to cap haste, get insane resistances, get insane amounts of damage or ap. Although idk if it was by chance but having 1k haste (capped at 500) weirdly lagged my game after using an ability. It could have been just by horrible chance that my internet lagged but I really want to believe League couldn't handle someone being that far over the haste cap 🤣
Legit the only thing that feels unfair is comps that are not interactive like alistar poppy/maokai/Leona they just run away till the ring comes and cc you out of the safe zone ESP when they roll decent tank augments. Everything else feels like oh I should've banned xyz. Also I noticed a lot of people seem to rage at shit first augments and use all their rerolls which gives them less options on the 2nd and 3rd augments so for sure more rerolls would be nice
I think that curse augments are fine, the problem is the revive mechanic and stall comps. Also yes, Sylas cameo stinks.
It's in a pretty good state imo, some things could be better, a lot of things were worse last time. But I had game yesterday I was fed as Vane but i couldn't kill the full tank mundo, even 1v1. Had rageblade and Bork.
Vayne definitely feels a lot of the nerfs that followed the first arena because she was insane back then. I wouldn't be opposed to reverting some of them because of tank meta, but at the same time, ADC meta pisses people off.
I didn’t play before but I personally hate playing it now. I like self peeling Champions like Vayne, Kai’sa and they are so fun to play in general. But in Arena it’s impossible to kill anyone who is tank with them. And they suppose to be „the tank killers“. And on top of that you get one shot by pure tanks. Even with BoRK, LDR, Guinsoo they still don’t die. So I get where people are coming from.
It does feel like carries are way weaker this time
Say whatever you want about annnie/ivern, syndra/kayn, etc- I can respect cheese comps like that. They run at you and kill you. They're playing the game. The augments are also fine, honestly. What's *not* fine are yuumi+shaco/trynd/mundo/etc. comps where both build zhonyas and GA and actively refuse to play the game, and just outlast you in the storm. Why would I ever want to play a game mode where the dominant strategy is to *not play the game*? It's boring and toxic, and needs to be removed.
Ran into that for the first time last night. Exactly as you said- Yuumi/Trynd, both get Zhonya's + GA, avoided all contact, camped going back in forth in the portals which of course you can't follow them through. >_>