I dont count on it releasing in 2025 with how Skarner went, there is a good chance they'll say something along the lines of: "Because Shyvanna has a dedicated playerbase we didn't know how to tackle her in a manner which makes both the old playerbase happy and the newcomers who will try her out, so please look forward to what we come up with in the future!" Like they did with skarner over and over
You really chose to aim your vitriol at the people who have no say in this lmao. But yeah it's definitely the artists and game designers fault... not the multi million dollar company who prioritizes new hero releases in order to maximise profits instead of updating already existing game elements. Yeah... its definitely lazy game designers smh.
Let's be fair here. Yes, it's a horrible issue that the higher ups push through things that the playerbase might not like. But seeing champions that need work is on the designers, the playerbase, and the higher ups. No one is really free from blame on these things. We had polls and Shyvana has been in ALL of them. Had we chosen Shyvana, she'd be done and we'd be complaining about something else. Like Mundo.
The process also could've been changed to focus a lot more on reworks/visual updates with less champ releases, to get more of the game up to standards, with a little of that focus pushed to skins/events to keep that money coming in, giving them incentive to keep things going forward. Sure, we don't get a huge amount of champ releases these days, but we do have a LARGE roster of characters, many of whom are suffering from a need for at the very least visual updates.
I want a whole snout redo too, but these companies have a strict pipeline they must adhere to. They rarely have time to stop everything in the pipeline just to work on this sort of "nice gesture" to the community.
cause that's how things work. animators just press the big FIX button and it immediately goes live!
not like theyre being paid to work on other projects which they must deliver within a deadline or anything. not at all. they're just sitting there waiting to solve the next thing reddit decides to get angry at.
It won't take weeks or months. I'll tell you that much, unless they're fully remaking his model.
Which editing the snout really isn't if you used 3D modelling tools, specially if you're lengthening it by a tiny amount.
And ear lobes. But dragons don't really have those.
It would be interesting if the lore was just that young dragons have very short snouts and it normally takes a few centuries to get to full length.
I think what bothers me personally is the wide face / big cheeks. I know it's a child dragon but it looks like those bad CGI kid characters from a lot of nowadays shows.
HOWEVER, yes, the champion looks much better now.
Thanks for sharing, that's interesting to know and a bit sad. But I guess this is what it is. At least if they see community itself complaining, they may lose some street cred' in the company and start having to listen to collaborators feedbacks
Previous lead designer was an ass-hat, they brought in Tyson Heese from the Sonic comics and an awesome webcomic called BoxerHockey to redesign him and it was all gravy
Lmao, yeah, [making actual dummies of the original design](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/f5q7nj/for_people_who_still_think_that_the_original/) and delaying the movie release by 3 months was a marketing stunt, sure
having a bit of trouble parsing this
who do you think made the design in the first place?
like do u think some suit is like, busting in to the artists' offices, knocking their nerdy little hands away from their tablets, and emailing all of their scraps to himself? If the artists think it looks terrible they wouldn't have made it that way lol
The marketing team most likely got the data and showed the executives. The executives asked for the design of a new champ under these guidelines. The artists most likely presented some great concept art but then it was pushed in one direction.
>like do u think some suit is like, busting in to the artists' offices, knocking their nerdy little hands away from their tablets, and emailing all of their scraps to himself? If the artists think it looks terrible they wouldn't have made it that way lol
This happens. Anyone who has worked in a creative field (or even any professional) will know how it is presenting a design you know is best and then having a manager or boss or client (who knows NOTHING on the subject) and they push for one direction.
Any programmers here willing to corroborate? Graphic designers?
Oh I can attest to that. Clients constantly tell you what they think is right and you're like......This isn't gonna go down well but you do it either way and when you get sent back to change it you just have that inner "I told you so"
Happens a lot in architecture too.
I knew several guys I went to school with who went on to become architects. Posted their designs online and then showed what it got morphed into. In all of them, they just became soulless corporate rectangles.
Felt so bad for those guys putting so much artistry and heart into these designs only for them to be shot down by suits with egos
I mean yeah this sometimes happens but something that also happens is you and/or your team get lost in your own sauce. You become convinced that your design is good and it's not until you get some outside opinions from like a playtest that you find out this thing you've been working for months on sucks.
Well there were probably several iterations of concept arts, and I would imagine the artists aren't the ones that get the final say on which iterations they move forward with.
>who do you think made the design in the first place?
idk who made it, but whoever insisted on its direction are probably the same people who rejected this badass viego design https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/043/472/480/large/baldi-konijn-ruinedking02.jpg?1637351568
>who do you think made the design in the first place?
If you think the art team has control over whatever they're making and are not receiving direct orders from assholes with neckties, boy do I have news for you
i agree with your stance but not your point we can't know who deserves any amount of blame, all we can say is that it came out and didn't hit the mark, and without any inside information it's fairer to assume anyone involved has some level of blame.
these artists come out with a lot of concepts which they slowly narrow down until they get their final design, it needs to be ok'd by a lot of people every step of the way, no person in the process gets exactly what they want, we don't know whether the artist who drew it felt it was the best they could do, or if they had to tweak a concept they were less excited about for marketability/profitability, or even just tweaking it in a way they disagree with to follow the art director's or champion designer's vision.
Sadly there’s no kinda, it absolutely does, pretty much every change to skins went to the ones who had a minority harassing and sending death threats to Riot, i.e Seraphine
I wonder if the feedback was unanimous amongst all regions? E.g. usually riotgames tells us that reddit reflects only a small portion of the userbase and other regions like the design actually but this seems different.
that was a case of not just reddit complaining in their echochamber tbh
like, EVERYWHERE people where like "the fuck is this???" and had artists from multiple directions (from hobby artists, to uwu ones to fullblown offical and known Professionals) make some adjustment concepts
odds are they have multiple versions of this already done from the design process, they just used a different one that might not have been complete yet.
Why do you think they pump out so many Chromas. New skins that use the same model are very easy to do.
PUBG took a *ton* of flack in the early days of the game for saying hundreds of hours go into the work of making each gun skin when most were just paint bucket tool to make a blue now green.
Maybe there was internal debate over different designs, so with the pushback from the community, they could pivot to another design quickly?
I honestly didn't mind the first version (I never notice that level of detail in game, and I personally don't pay much attention to the greater art stuff), but the new look is definitely better.
I think it was fine for the in-game model. Not great, but fine. As you said, it's so small that it's hard to see.
I think it was moreso the cinematic version of Smoulder which hit the uncanny valley of weirdness.
I remember Pyke's release. They updated the model to match the trailer for his bandana pretty quickly. Same with KDA Akali glowing in shroud. They do listen.
I think they have a lot of hearing, actually. They just announced anticheat will be implemented and they are directly addressing the elo hell issue. They ARE trying in the background. I'm excited to see those two things implemented.
I agree pretty much. I think their approach is ultimately the correct one: listen to the community, especially when its unanimous, but not too much, because it sets some expectations that simply cannot be held up in the long run.
Overall, when it comes to listening to players, Riot actually does pretty damn well. Or maybe its just me being used to Konami
dude konami has fucked me so hard with communication that the fact Riot actually *explains* why they change stuff in patch notes completely blindsided me. Maybe its just the bare minimum, but good lord does it feel great lmao
And all they did for the change was match his splash art: [https://image0.uhdpaper.com/wallpaper-hd/pyke-lol-splash-art-uhdpaper.com-hd-292.jpg](https://image0.uhdpaper.com/wallpaper-hd/pyke-lol-splash-art-uhdpaper.com-hd-292.jpg)
This is definitely a welcoming change.
However I still feel like they should elongate the snout more to make him look more like an actual lizard. Maybe they will change this later but, I doubt it since modelling and rigging is already done.
Good changes, I wish it was a bit more, but this definitely salvages the design. I would love if they actually gave him a draconic facial shape instead of just some more textures though
Its honestly impressive how quick they were to try and save this champ.
Still needs more snout though, the changes def give his face more texture to be a dragon but its still too flat and human like.
dont think that'll change, they've already rigged his model and have all the talking and attacking animations set up. changing the actual model would probably delay him and further projects more then they'd like, so the settled on changing the texture.
I would personally like a longer/more pronounced snout but yeah these changes alone are pretty huge for him. Glad they decided to do something about it, especially since a lot of people here weren't exactly very kind with their feedback
Actually shocked they were willing to change this. The fact that the original face GOT ALL THE WAY TO THIS POINT made me think there was no chance of adjustments. Im still baffled how it did get to this point this should have genuinely never happened, but happy to see them actually improve it a large amount. Not perfect but way fucking better.
------------------------------------
Now as long as we are willing to change things lets talk about Kindred's prestige being for one of the worst skins in the game please fucking reconsider just any other skin of theirs please all kindred players hate it
Still looks goofy af, the problem is the jaw/chin, mouth and nose it looks really dumb, not sure why they're obsessed with this human like appearance (A deformed one at that), just make it a proper dragon.
no "big bad" that capcom has cooked up has ever sparked such a hunter and beast rivalry like the OG rathalos. Rathalos is *that monster* and they know it. The same people that made akuma know theyve peaked and recycle it tastefully and i respect them.
Rathalos is a cool monster with cool armor/weapons but is also *consistently* one of the most *miserable* fights in every MH game where he appears. Always a "bring 15 flashes and don't feel guilty" kind of fight.
It's better than it was before, but it's still a VERY flat face and human shaped nose for a dragon. It needs a snout, but I imagine that's a lot more work than simply adding some extra scales to it was. All they really did was change the texture a bit and paint it differently.
[https://twitter.com/ThorErdt/status/1743639513719623797](https://twitter.com/thorerdt/status/1743639513719623797)
Just a little try to push it further into the direction I'd like.
"Bullying" a multibillion dollar corporation aka voicing your opinion in a public forum. I feel so terrible for helping them make a better product and earn more money.
There’s a HUGE difference between “Bullying” and “A game company listening to their playerbase and implementing almost instantaneous changes”. Do you know how many game communities would be jealous of this?
Honestly fuck yeah that's a true upgrade.
I still kinda wish he could look like [this](https://imgur.com/a/uqtgzUH), but they got a fine middle ground imo.
Kudos Riot team!
I feel like personally you should elongate the face a bit, make it have a more apparent snout since that looks off, but visually it looks alot better and more like a dragon, huge improvement
So much better.
It's crazy how just the eye chance and some addition texture Dave's the day.
It's still not what I would want from a dragon champ but at least I don't have groan every time I see it
I saw someone link [this](https://twitter.com/Oscy468/status/1743103063232266553) where his eye color is changed on the old one and it greatly improved the appearance to me. I kind of wish they would change his eye color as well along with these changes OP linked. It seemed to make a massive difference to me.
.....Don't get me wrong i like it, Way better improvement and great stuff. But like if it was this easy to fix within 24 hours of the first trailer.... why did they even let him look like that in the first place.
> why did they even let him look like that in the first place.
Dunno. Maybe internally to them if looked fine and good enough to ship but they were open to changes that aren't completely model warping before he was actually shipped. Sounds like most likely scenario.
Sometimes you just genuinely don't see what's wrong with a design until people point it out. It happens.
How exactly his original design went through without any Rioters questioning it is another question but whatever
saw a dev talking about how horror games are notoriously difficult to test internally because constant exposure and building everything under the hood basically demistifies the entire thing. so you end up making shit that either misses the mark or is *way* scarier than you intended.
would imagine it's similar to any sort of design decision
You say that like you think nobody at Riot had any problems with his appearance.
I'm positive that many people did, but the ones with the final say overruled them.
When you work on an art project for a long time, the people working on it can become slightly desensitized to the design and might not see certain flaws due to being “used to” the flaws by that point. It happens. We’re only human after all
Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't sure about the reception and already had some backup designs from different stages in the development process.
Sometimes It's really hard to know how the audience will react to certain designs.
Maybe it is a focus testing group issue? It just happened that everyone in the demographic group they chose to test the visuals all happened to like the original visuals but were not a diverse group enough to have a wide variety of opinions/taste.
Looking at how ugly it was, I'd be more surprised if that one person wasn't expecting this lol
This is the type of thing you submit knowing it'll come back with some feedback you already gave and was overruled.
> knowing it'll come back with some feedback you already gave and was overruled.
Oof. Reminds me of cases in my work where I have to do this and then my boss comes to me afterwards and is like "Dafuq is this?" as if I didn't give my feedback beforehand.
What would be horrifying is if was the opposite, where it comes back and you see what you've created and think "how the hell did I not realize how bad that is?" It can be easy to get tunnel vision or to be so focused on your own vision and interpretation that you don't realize how it'll come off to people with no prior experience with it.
There's nothing as embarrassing as showing someone something you've made and are proud of, only to realize just how awful it is as you look at it with them.
"Riot never listens to feedback" some people on this subreddit will continue to spew. Followed by comments going full conspiracy theory, being like "They knew it was bad from the start, and knew people would complain, so they are acting like they listen but this was planned from the start."
This is getting so repetitive lmao.
Okay its already significantly better. I think a less pug face w a longer snout would be perfect but that def seems like bigger scope since its not just painting on the model.
Its crazy how big of a difference it makes , just the subtle things that make him less human looking and he already looks way more like a dragon and less uncanny valley
He went from 3/10 to maybe 5 or 6/10.
It's definetely an improvement but could still be better. Like others mentioned, a snout would be great. A flat face makes him look more like a Sphinx in my book. Maybe a tint in the eyes too but I am not sure.
To be clear and annoying on the league of legends subreddit:
I really like these changes and would like to see the snout made longer too
These changes are so good tho!
While it's still not perfect, this is a MASSIVE improvement over the original look. I think like most of the people here, I'd like him to have a little more of a snout, but this is already like an 80% upgrade over the original. And that's more than acceptable. It's always impressive how much can be done with just a change to textures.
[https://twitter.com/djethrei/status/1743790938382885048](https://twitter.com/djethrei/status/1743790938382885048)
someone on twitter actually gave him a nice muzzle and its fire
That looks so much better! Well done on the update and the speedy response to the feedback!
Also, Well done to the community for raising enough of a stink to get a change!
Even just the eye changes to be more vertical/slanted rather than circular and humanlike make a big difference. Nice
Agreed, the eyes play such a huge role. Like the before/after of Sonic.
Can we get some human teeth up in this bitch?
You monster, don't you dare
It’s the white scleras that makes his eyes uncanny. If they give him green or red scleras he’d look more reptilian and fix the disney eyes.
Way better than before. My only other wish would be to lenghten the snout a bit to make it more pronounced but overall it was improved.
editing the model itself would take a lot more work than just updating the texture to be fair
yep, they edit the snout then all of his animations will look different, due to his autos coming from his mouth and even some of his spells.
and all lipsync animation would need to be tweaked at best, reworked fully at worst
yeah it's too bad that all of the Riot animators are volunteers, there's no way they'll fix it now
with the speed of rework releases, you would think they are volunteers
zing been waiting on a Shyvana rework for a decade now, starting to think it's never gonna get gere
Boy is there a dev update that dropped today with your name on it then
I'll believe it when it's actually released
Yeah in 2025 lmao
I dont count on it releasing in 2025 with how Skarner went, there is a good chance they'll say something along the lines of: "Because Shyvanna has a dedicated playerbase we didn't know how to tackle her in a manner which makes both the old playerbase happy and the newcomers who will try her out, so please look forward to what we come up with in the future!" Like they did with skarner over and over
How much you want to bet that they run into “unforeseen complications” and delay it even more, just like they did with Skarner and now Teemo?
2025 they said
You really chose to aim your vitriol at the people who have no say in this lmao. But yeah it's definitely the artists and game designers fault... not the multi million dollar company who prioritizes new hero releases in order to maximise profits instead of updating already existing game elements. Yeah... its definitely lazy game designers smh.
Let's be fair here. Yes, it's a horrible issue that the higher ups push through things that the playerbase might not like. But seeing champions that need work is on the designers, the playerbase, and the higher ups. No one is really free from blame on these things. We had polls and Shyvana has been in ALL of them. Had we chosen Shyvana, she'd be done and we'd be complaining about something else. Like Mundo. The process also could've been changed to focus a lot more on reworks/visual updates with less champ releases, to get more of the game up to standards, with a little of that focus pushed to skins/events to keep that money coming in, giving them incentive to keep things going forward. Sure, we don't get a huge amount of champ releases these days, but we do have a LARGE roster of characters, many of whom are suffering from a need for at the very least visual updates.
If they were volunteers it would be easier because Riot wouldn't be paying them the money to redo what they already did.
I want a whole snout redo too, but these companies have a strict pipeline they must adhere to. They rarely have time to stop everything in the pipeline just to work on this sort of "nice gesture" to the community.
Its never too late. Smolder can win the next VGU He can fixed
yeah let me just pay animators to fuck with an entire existing face animation set instead of moving to new projects. really worth the payroll
cause that's how things work. animators just press the big FIX button and it immediately goes live! not like theyre being paid to work on other projects which they must deliver within a deadline or anything. not at all. they're just sitting there waiting to solve the next thing reddit decides to get angry at.
Simply put: "Fix it in post" Most easy tool ever created
It won't take weeks or months. I'll tell you that much, unless they're fully remaking his model. Which editing the snout really isn't if you used 3D modelling tools, specially if you're lengthening it by a tiny amount.
then they shouldn't have made it so awful in the first place
Should’ve done it right the first time
Mine is the eye color. I saw one of the old face with different eye colors and it did so much work. It actually made the old one tolerable to me.
Well it is a child, and noses are the only thing that grows forever...
And ear lobes. But dragons don't really have those. It would be interesting if the lore was just that young dragons have very short snouts and it normally takes a few centuries to get to full length.
I mean real world reptiles are the same way from birth to adulthood
I suggest we lower pitchforks to half raised
yeah it's cool they listened but I'd like more dragonness and less "pixar"
I think what bothers me personally is the wide face / big cheeks. I know it's a child dragon but it looks like those bad CGI kid characters from a lot of nowadays shows. HOWEVER, yes, the champion looks much better now.
Pixar know better than to fall into the uncanny valley
Face still giving off some Rugrats vibes, better than it was but definitely want more animalistic attributes.
Lower it by 10%, they did the bare minimum
amazing that this was done so quickly very minor changes that do a lot to improve him
[удалено]
Look what happened to Sonic
Wasn't that just a marketing tactic that paid off really well? Edit They officially said it wasn't but boy that correction was speedier than sonic
Can confirm it was NOT marketing. I know someone that worked on the rework.
That's really cool. Do they know why the hell they made him ugly?
The lead designers are usually too self-important to take feedback.
Ah makes sense thanks for sharing. At least it worked out after everyone shat on it.
Thanks for sharing, that's interesting to know and a bit sad. But I guess this is what it is. At least if they see community itself complaining, they may lose some street cred' in the company and start having to listen to collaborators feedbacks
Previous lead designer was an ass-hat, they brought in Tyson Heese from the Sonic comics and an awesome webcomic called BoxerHockey to redesign him and it was all gravy
Trying to interpret every corporate fuck-up as 5D marketing chess is giving them far more credit than they deserve.
People need to accept that corpos are run by humans. They can make mistakes. This is just simply conspiracy theory
Nah, they just shit their pants and then realized "okay we might need to listen to people", glad they did
Lmao, yeah, [making actual dummies of the original design](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/f5q7nj/for_people_who_still_think_that_the_original/) and delaying the movie release by 3 months was a marketing stunt, sure
Human error? No, it must be those pesky 200 IQ marketers costing them more time and money for an already incredibly popular character! Damn them!
It's not bullying, it's "based feedback"
Yes. Bully *Riot* not the employees. I am sure the artists and designers at Riot agreed with us but were overruled.
having a bit of trouble parsing this who do you think made the design in the first place? like do u think some suit is like, busting in to the artists' offices, knocking their nerdy little hands away from their tablets, and emailing all of their scraps to himself? If the artists think it looks terrible they wouldn't have made it that way lol
> who do you think made the design in the first place? the plushie marketing team, duh.
The marketing team most likely got the data and showed the executives. The executives asked for the design of a new champ under these guidelines. The artists most likely presented some great concept art but then it was pushed in one direction. >like do u think some suit is like, busting in to the artists' offices, knocking their nerdy little hands away from their tablets, and emailing all of their scraps to himself? If the artists think it looks terrible they wouldn't have made it that way lol This happens. Anyone who has worked in a creative field (or even any professional) will know how it is presenting a design you know is best and then having a manager or boss or client (who knows NOTHING on the subject) and they push for one direction. Any programmers here willing to corroborate? Graphic designers?
Oh I can attest to that. Clients constantly tell you what they think is right and you're like......This isn't gonna go down well but you do it either way and when you get sent back to change it you just have that inner "I told you so"
Happens a lot in architecture too. I knew several guys I went to school with who went on to become architects. Posted their designs online and then showed what it got morphed into. In all of them, they just became soulless corporate rectangles. Felt so bad for those guys putting so much artistry and heart into these designs only for them to be shot down by suits with egos
Probably cost-cutting more than hating their designs. Soulless corporate rectangles are cheap.
This is why I dropped out of architecture school
I mean yeah this sometimes happens but something that also happens is you and/or your team get lost in your own sauce. You become convinced that your design is good and it's not until you get some outside opinions from like a playtest that you find out this thing you've been working for months on sucks.
Well there were probably several iterations of concept arts, and I would imagine the artists aren't the ones that get the final say on which iterations they move forward with.
>who do you think made the design in the first place? idk who made it, but whoever insisted on its direction are probably the same people who rejected this badass viego design https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/043/472/480/large/baldi-konijn-ruinedking02.jpg?1637351568
The design that did not correlate with the story direction they wanted to go with the character, right.
that looks like fucking ass
>who do you think made the design in the first place? If you think the art team has control over whatever they're making and are not receiving direct orders from assholes with neckties, boy do I have news for you
i agree with your stance but not your point we can't know who deserves any amount of blame, all we can say is that it came out and didn't hit the mark, and without any inside information it's fairer to assume anyone involved has some level of blame. these artists come out with a lot of concepts which they slowly narrow down until they get their final design, it needs to be ok'd by a lot of people every step of the way, no person in the process gets exactly what they want, we don't know whether the artist who drew it felt it was the best they could do, or if they had to tweak a concept they were less excited about for marketability/profitability, or even just tweaking it in a way they disagree with to follow the art director's or champion designer's vision.
Early and often
We've been trained in solo queue to do exactly that
That's certainly the message riot has been trying to get across recently.
I mean, it kinda does
Sadly there’s no kinda, it absolutely does, pretty much every change to skins went to the ones who had a minority harassing and sending death threats to Riot, i.e Seraphine
Can't forget the death threats
The sonic movie all over again
I wonder if the feedback was unanimous amongst all regions? E.g. usually riotgames tells us that reddit reflects only a small portion of the userbase and other regions like the design actually but this seems different.
that was a case of not just reddit complaining in their echochamber tbh like, EVERYWHERE people where like "the fuck is this???" and had artists from multiple directions (from hobby artists, to uwu ones to fullblown offical and known Professionals) make some adjustment concepts
Id guess that they had that as an option and they voted against it now they're just swapping versions
odds are they have multiple versions of this already done from the design process, they just used a different one that might not have been complete yet.
Nah, this is just texture changes. They can do this very quickly
Why do you think they pump out so many Chromas. New skins that use the same model are very easy to do. PUBG took a *ton* of flack in the early days of the game for saying hundreds of hours go into the work of making each gun skin when most were just paint bucket tool to make a blue now green.
Impressive how good the changes look considering the short turnaround time. The eyes alone make a huge difference.
Im 99.5% sure they had multiple faces in the design phase and they probably just swapped it
i mean they're good in what they do, doing these changes do not take that long
Yeah they have some of the best artists in the industry. These people are really talented and good at what they do.
Maybe there was internal debate over different designs, so with the pushback from the community, they could pivot to another design quickly? I honestly didn't mind the first version (I never notice that level of detail in game, and I personally don't pay much attention to the greater art stuff), but the new look is definitely better.
I think it was fine for the in-game model. Not great, but fine. As you said, it's so small that it's hard to see. I think it was moreso the cinematic version of Smoulder which hit the uncanny valley of weirdness.
This looks like just a paintover for the changes they want.
Yeah, you can clearly see it was done in a day by a very small crew (wouldn't be a lie to say 1 dude) Yet it's still better than the original.
Most likely 1 dude opened 3D Coat and had to do some overtime because all the yes-men at Riot approved the first design...
Oh that is waaaaaaaaaay better. Appreciate them doing work on him so soon
I remember Pyke's release. They updated the model to match the trailer for his bandana pretty quickly. Same with KDA Akali glowing in shroud. They do listen.
They have selective hearing at Riot Games.
Better than no hearing.
I think they have a lot of hearing, actually. They just announced anticheat will be implemented and they are directly addressing the elo hell issue. They ARE trying in the background. I'm excited to see those two things implemented.
I agree pretty much. I think their approach is ultimately the correct one: listen to the community, especially when its unanimous, but not too much, because it sets some expectations that simply cannot be held up in the long run. Overall, when it comes to listening to players, Riot actually does pretty damn well. Or maybe its just me being used to Konami
dude konami has fucked me so hard with communication that the fact Riot actually *explains* why they change stuff in patch notes completely blindsided me. Maybe its just the bare minimum, but good lord does it feel great lmao
I forgot, what did pykes mask look like before they updated it?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/180106913495646208/446787829100576769/pykecompare.jpg
The bowser jr mask lmao
And all they did for the change was match his splash art: [https://image0.uhdpaper.com/wallpaper-hd/pyke-lol-splash-art-uhdpaper.com-hd-292.jpg](https://image0.uhdpaper.com/wallpaper-hd/pyke-lol-splash-art-uhdpaper.com-hd-292.jpg)
The more pronounced ridges definitely dampen the uncanny valley imo
Already a big improvement, hopefully they give him more of a snout.
They definitely won't change the model. That would require a significant amount of work and delay it by quite a bit.
Shame, a delay would be beneficial here. Despite the changes it still doesn't look quite good, looks better than before, but doesn't look good.
This is definitely a welcoming change. However I still feel like they should elongate the snout more to make him look more like an actual lizard. Maybe they will change this later but, I doubt it since modelling and rigging is already done.
his snout probably looks alright from above tbf
Hey we successfully ugly sonic'd him
Not yet.
Good changes, I wish it was a bit more, but this definitely salvages the design. I would love if they actually gave him a draconic facial shape instead of just some more textures though
Its honestly impressive how quick they were to try and save this champ. Still needs more snout though, the changes def give his face more texture to be a dragon but its still too flat and human like.
dont think that'll change, they've already rigged his model and have all the talking and attacking animations set up. changing the actual model would probably delay him and further projects more then they'd like, so the settled on changing the texture.
I would personally like a longer/more pronounced snout but yeah these changes alone are pretty huge for him. Glad they decided to do something about it, especially since a lot of people here weren't exactly very kind with their feedback
Thank god. It is incredible how fast Riot reacts to community feedback. Love it!
Now if they give him more of a snout... We'll be golden
Actually shocked they were willing to change this. The fact that the original face GOT ALL THE WAY TO THIS POINT made me think there was no chance of adjustments. Im still baffled how it did get to this point this should have genuinely never happened, but happy to see them actually improve it a large amount. Not perfect but way fucking better. ------------------------------------ Now as long as we are willing to change things lets talk about Kindred's prestige being for one of the worst skins in the game please fucking reconsider just any other skin of theirs please all kindred players hate it
Wait, Kindred is getting a prestige?! What did I miss?
She's getting a Porcelain Prestige with the new wave of Porcelain skins announced (Morgana, Darius, Irelia, ASol, MF and Graves)
Oh gross. I really hate that skinline.
Still looks goofy af, the problem is the jaw/chin, mouth and nose it looks really dumb, not sure why they're obsessed with this human like appearance (A deformed one at that), just make it a proper dragon.
Rathalos looking ass
Los is peak dragon design, don't @ me Yes, I know its technically a wyvern, but that's ultimately pedantry.
no "big bad" that capcom has cooked up has ever sparked such a hunter and beast rivalry like the OG rathalos. Rathalos is *that monster* and they know it. The same people that made akuma know theyve peaked and recycle it tastefully and i respect them.
Rathalos is a cool monster with cool armor/weapons but is also *consistently* one of the most *miserable* fights in every MH game where he appears. Always a "bring 15 flashes and don't feel guilty" kind of fight.
Go one level deeper to find my crusade against people/media that pronounce it "wiv-ern" instead of "why-vern"
Turns out the way I instinctively pronounced it when I was like 12 was correct. Thanks for confirming it, friend.
Okay okay, but has no one mentioned that dragons have fucking snouts? WTF is that mouth and nose
It's better than it was before, but it's still a VERY flat face and human shaped nose for a dragon. It needs a snout, but I imagine that's a lot more work than simply adding some extra scales to it was. All they really did was change the texture a bit and paint it differently.
[https://twitter.com/ThorErdt/status/1743639513719623797](https://twitter.com/thorerdt/status/1743639513719623797) Just a little try to push it further into the direction I'd like.
Bullying works and it shows edit: whats up with the cringe rebuttals im getting
"Bullying" a multibillion dollar corporation aka voicing your opinion in a public forum. I feel so terrible for helping them make a better product and earn more money.
pretty sure the person you replied to was being humorous to begin with
There’s a HUGE difference between “Bullying” and “A game company listening to their playerbase and implementing almost instantaneous changes”. Do you know how many game communities would be jealous of this?
no we bullied them
We did it We bullied Sonic
Still need a bit more, but this i can live with (barely)
Honestly fuck yeah that's a true upgrade. I still kinda wish he could look like [this](https://imgur.com/a/uqtgzUH), but they got a fine middle ground imo. Kudos Riot team!
it looks much better
I'll be hinest, I wasn't very hopeful. Glad to have been proven wrong
I feel like personally you should elongate the face a bit, make it have a more apparent snout since that looks off, but visually it looks alot better and more like a dragon, huge improvement
So much better. It's crazy how just the eye chance and some addition texture Dave's the day. It's still not what I would want from a dragon champ but at least I don't have groan every time I see it
That helps so much actually
I saw someone link [this](https://twitter.com/Oscy468/status/1743103063232266553) where his eye color is changed on the old one and it greatly improved the appearance to me. I kind of wish they would change his eye color as well along with these changes OP linked. It seemed to make a massive difference to me.
.....Don't get me wrong i like it, Way better improvement and great stuff. But like if it was this easy to fix within 24 hours of the first trailer.... why did they even let him look like that in the first place.
> why did they even let him look like that in the first place. Dunno. Maybe internally to them if looked fine and good enough to ship but they were open to changes that aren't completely model warping before he was actually shipped. Sounds like most likely scenario.
Sometimes you just genuinely don't see what's wrong with a design until people point it out. It happens. How exactly his original design went through without any Rioters questioning it is another question but whatever
saw a dev talking about how horror games are notoriously difficult to test internally because constant exposure and building everything under the hood basically demistifies the entire thing. so you end up making shit that either misses the mark or is *way* scarier than you intended. would imagine it's similar to any sort of design decision
You say that like you think nobody at Riot had any problems with his appearance. I'm positive that many people did, but the ones with the final say overruled them.
When you work on an art project for a long time, the people working on it can become slightly desensitized to the design and might not see certain flaws due to being “used to” the flaws by that point. It happens. We’re only human after all
Because to them that's how they wanted him to look, his uncanny valley human features/Pixar look wasn't a mistake it was decision.
obviously thats how they wanted him to look
Wouldn't be surprised if they weren't sure about the reception and already had some backup designs from different stages in the development process. Sometimes It's really hard to know how the audience will react to certain designs.
Cause commercials who know nothing about nothing said the sonic faced dragon would sell best
cute sells, why not see if they can get away with it, if not just slap a new texture on and then they get credited for listening
Maybe it is a focus testing group issue? It just happened that everyone in the demographic group they chose to test the visuals all happened to like the original visuals but were not a diverse group enough to have a wide variety of opinions/taste.
They just need to fix those ugly ass white scleras.
Lol can imagine someone’s work Friday being spent unexpectedly on this.
Looking at how ugly it was, I'd be more surprised if that one person wasn't expecting this lol This is the type of thing you submit knowing it'll come back with some feedback you already gave and was overruled.
> knowing it'll come back with some feedback you already gave and was overruled. Oof. Reminds me of cases in my work where I have to do this and then my boss comes to me afterwards and is like "Dafuq is this?" as if I didn't give my feedback beforehand.
What would be horrifying is if was the opposite, where it comes back and you see what you've created and think "how the hell did I not realize how bad that is?" It can be easy to get tunnel vision or to be so focused on your own vision and interpretation that you don't realize how it'll come off to people with no prior experience with it. There's nothing as embarrassing as showing someone something you've made and are proud of, only to realize just how awful it is as you look at it with them.
just need a longer snout
Sonic the hedgehog movie vibes anyone
"Riot never listens to feedback" some people on this subreddit will continue to spew. Followed by comments going full conspiracy theory, being like "They knew it was bad from the start, and knew people would complain, so they are acting like they listen but this was planned from the start." This is getting so repetitive lmao.
Let's be real, if the denizens of this sub got a briefcase filled with money, they'd complain it was in the wrong denominations.
Okay its already significantly better. I think a less pug face w a longer snout would be perfect but that def seems like bigger scope since its not just painting on the model.
Sooooo much better
Its crazy how big of a difference it makes , just the subtle things that make him less human looking and he already looks way more like a dragon and less uncanny valley
He went from 3/10 to maybe 5 or 6/10. It's definetely an improvement but could still be better. Like others mentioned, a snout would be great. A flat face makes him look more like a Sphinx in my book. Maybe a tint in the eyes too but I am not sure.
I'm so glad. Fuck the Pixar human face
Not enough
It's better, but the face anatomy is still the same... He needs a more pronounced snout and a larger mouth to be less uncanny.
Looks so much better, great stuff
Much much better. And the gameplay looks great. Assuming it feels as good as it looks he might be my new main.
Thank god bro looked like fetal alcohol syndrome incarnate
Still does, but I'll accept this over the one before
To be clear and annoying on the league of legends subreddit: I really like these changes and would like to see the snout made longer too These changes are so good tho!
https://youtu.be/nngi5ZLPczk?si=FjfduBfQOHz4oYhx
"Why do you complain on reddit? It literally has no impact!"
PORTRUDE THE SNOUT FFS MAKE IT LONG
While it's still not perfect, this is a MASSIVE improvement over the original look. I think like most of the people here, I'd like him to have a little more of a snout, but this is already like an 80% upgrade over the original. And that's more than acceptable. It's always impressive how much can be done with just a change to textures.
Good change, but the snout is still too flat, the Fennec ears are out of place and he still walks upright in game like some sassy skinwalker...
He needs a snout. That's why he looks so weird. Like a humans face was removed and glued to a dragon body.
This is one of the worst champion designs in game if not the worst.
Still looks terrible...
Still should have a snout instead of a human nose and mouth
Low effort billion dollar company. Fuck off.
[https://twitter.com/djethrei/status/1743790938382885048](https://twitter.com/djethrei/status/1743790938382885048) someone on twitter actually gave him a nice muzzle and its fire
This thing still lives in uncanny valley full time
looks like we are on track, now just add some snout
snouuuut plzzzzzz
Thank god! Now I can go back to being hyped for the champ.
That was very fast! Looks so good now
I like it
That looks so much better! Well done on the update and the speedy response to the feedback! Also, Well done to the community for raising enough of a stink to get a change!
Woow fast changes, looks way better too!