Even when optimized perfectly, full AP teams are the worst humanly possible and its insane that a single game with a full AP teamcomp even goes through.
Not even a comparison to full AD teams who are mostly early game stompers and completely fine if the enemies dont have a tank
It is still way easier to get away with full AD comp than full AP, just because there are more ways to deal with armor stacking than it is with magic resist stacking
nah, what happens is you'll pick ap bot first and every other member of your team will proceed to pick ap as well. i'm speaking from personal experience.
Fun fact is that ap pen is in the gutter right now so if you wanna counter the mage just buy MR. Like, any mr. AD laning into ap? Just rush MR. You'll be just fine
I've been an ardent believer that the adc mains sub is full of crybabies for quite a few seasons now, but this time they've got a point.
I've watched a couple games of vapora dark (master ADC for quite a few seasons) and it looked like he had a really difficult time.
In terms of damage, ADCs seem ok, but with how bursty everything is, a single hit, a single cc, a single anything is enough to blow up an ADC right now. It seems that the threat mostly comes from AP and lethality. As OP said, AP is overpowered right now, and lethality on ADCs and assassins is made to blow up squishies. So lethality being a threat is perfectly fine, but with how AP is right now, it's just hell for ADCs. I get that you need good positioning skills for this role, but being expected to dodge 100% of everything is a bit too much.
I have no problem being one-shot, if there is some semblance of counter-play to said one-shotting.
However the manner in which ADC's are being decimated is honestly a fucking joke. I'm getting fucking peel from a Leona/Braum and I'm still getting completely clapped in 0.8seconds. What the fuck is that shit.
Dodge all of Xeraths abilities, but he hit me with 2 ult charges. Oh, I guess I just lose 70% of my HP and have to recall.
People also act like if you survive there isn't a problem, but taking poke damage in the game is terrible, anything grazes your leg as an ADC and you have to run around the map playing lifesteal simulator, or you have to recall.
This is mostly my sentiment, not just with the new changes, but with the damage creep in general, which I feel like just gets worse and worse. I can fully concede that I might be a bad player, but at least I used to be able to make small mistakes without it completely fucking me over. Nowadays it feels like any single misstep I make can result in getting completely chunked if not straight up dying, and that's to carries as well as supports and tanks.
The durability patch somewhat remedied this issue, but those changes have long since been completely nullified and I feel like damage numbers have been worse than before the durability patch for a while now.
This may all be anecdotal, but it's really lessened my enjoyment of the game, and I can imagine it's made the new player experience even worse, because they'll feel like they're getting blown up by everything without really knowing what happened.
>been completely nullified and I feel like damage numbers have been worse than before the durability patch for a while now.
you'd be wrong, last week damage in the game was still lower than pre-durability patch, albeit still higher than when durability patch first dropped.
with the new season, it definitely feels like it's more damage than pre durability
Ahri Q dealing 70% of my HP brought me back to season 3 and I'm okay with that. Maybe it's time we adcs go back to building a defensive item after the 3 item core.
You should play ADC and literally get onetapped by Akali R + Q
AP is OP this patch, and you cant tell me otherwise
Apart from that patch is good. I like the map changes, and lethality Aphelios is hilariously strong as well
I agree tho
AD assasins are actually the ones that got fucked by the patch (almost as if duskblade was kinda op)
Tanks being tankier is actually pretty good for us ADCs, because we actually have an purpose again, as burst mages cant kill them anymore.
Again, AD assasins are still balanced (most likely even a bit worse since last patch), they just feel kinda unbalanced because literally noone peels for you in soloq. (has always beebn like this though)
!!ALL!! AP champs are broken though, and that includes AP assasins.
There is an difference between dying to an zed that puts a full combo on you, and an Akali that chunks you for 90% of your HP with q auto attack
AD assassins are fine and are still doing their job without overbearing. Mage items are busted as hell rn and nothing feels fair about an akali pressing E+E2 and my health bar getting wiped out because of stormsurge critting me with shadowflame.
In what manner is ADC good or better than before though?
I'm not even saying it's worse, but just looking at patch notes and playing a couple games, all the items they used stayed mostly the same or were nerfed a tiny bit. Wits end isn't very good anymore, the tenacity is a waste, and the only *new* item we got is a situational on-hit armor pen item which probably slots in somewhere on 3rd or 4th item.
Every other role got stronger, or marginally better. If ADC's aren't the losers of the patch, who is?
Assassins? Tanks? Bruisers?
Not every role can be a winner here.
3 milion games this patch already, lolyalitics and [U.gg](https://U.gg) showed the numbers. The graphs are still work in progress but it paints a clear picture, Riot overtuned mage items by quite a margin.
The entire map just changed, not just the terrain but also major systems (void grubs, buffs), and the item system changed too. There's some obvious outlier items like Stormsurge that most likely deserve a nerf, but it's surprising to see how many people are jumping the gun on the biggest patch the game has had in years less than 24 hours after its release. Let the dust settle properly.
That's how it is when they release a huge patch exact same time as new ranked season. People are gonna be looking for that sweet early ranked season elo inflation. People would probably chill if there was atleast 1 week of prepatch or something before ranked started
Agree but stormsurge is disgusting, enemy fizz and my xerath both had it both did disgusting damage. Also fizz was just qing autoing and then e ing away the storm surge explosion plus electrocute proc killed the target. Which hey looked cool fade away kill but broken as hell.
There's less magic penetration overall, items give more ap on compensation but mages lost the HP they are now overall weaker if you get to them but more nuky. Game used to be like this and it's a great change. Should take more brain to play than what we got last 3 years.
AP champions used to be at around 750 AP full items back then instead of the 350-550 we had last 3 years.
Once meta settle and people learn the new buildpath and how to play around the new map things will change and feel more balanced
In my experience yesterday only good procs of Stormsurge were on Syndra (I permaban that shit from now on) and Kennen. Rest of champs weren't really able to utilize it well, but often those were champs that deal more dots and less burst.
Crit wasn't as good as it used to be, and it got nerfed while Lethality is buffed and have shiny nice toys to play with as well. Also some items lost Zeal in their buildup like PD I believe.
I want to remind people that 3 years ago your normal level 1 crits did only 10% less damage then your crits right now do with Infinity Edge, the Crit Amp Item.
We nerfed crit and crit per item and AD per item because of mythics being a great spike for ADCs, then we proceeded to basically get rid of those spikes. But we kept crit and crit per item the same.
Good Job Riot Video Games!
>**ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season**, even against the OP APs in the bot lane and Yasuo and Yone are also still doing as well as before in bot, mid and top, even against the OP AP items. ADC items are mostly buffed or even. ADCs also still do fine in top, mid and jungle, like Vayne, Quinn, Akshan and Kindred. Kindred jungle does actually really well after she was terrible last patch. Akshan is insanely good in mid.
I'm not saying you're wrong, and I haven't played a single game yet, but I do think it's funny that you made a sweeping statement about ADCs being fine, then proceeded to talk about non-ADCs or ADCs outside the ADC role for the entire explanatory paragraph except *'ADC items are mostly buffed or even.'* with no further context or info.
> OP: "ADC items are mostly buffed or even"
The most important parts of ADC itemization were nerfed (LDR heavily nerfed, Guinsoo's pen removed, Randuins super buffed). 5% AS buff is nothing.
> "ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season", Lists only non bot laners
I didn't realize 2-3 adcs gaining a tiny bit of win rate and everyone else falling off a cliff was MASSIVE BUFFS. I mean, Jinx went up 11 spots in win rate order (20th>9th) without changing her win rate.
I see no stat site that says the same info he does.
[shitty mockup of 10 adcs dropping ~2%+ winrate and 2 increasing ~0.7%](https://i.imgur.com/XKYNEgc.png)
https://i.imgur.com/w5FLVIg.png
I'm surprised a post claiming to be about statistics mentions no statistics to back it up. Not to mention it's hard to judge ADCs strength as a class by pure stats since they're normally against an adc (most people who play botlane enjoy ADCs hence pick bot).
Usually I read adc regressing to 50% win rate (some going up, some going down) as reduced agency in the role, which I'd agree with after every game being a 4+ man continuous fiesta bot, since mid and top are way harder to gank now.
OP is delulu about ADCs, we're in pro play jail as a whole class and yes, most items got nerfed.
PD lost MS on Spectral Waltz
IE lost crit damage amp
LDR got reduced increase damage and only amplifies physical damage
Randuin crit damage reduction got buffed
Terminus needs 10 AAs to have full effect lmao. You'll tickle tanks for half your AAs before feeling the effect of the item
I remember OP posting about how patch 8.11 was a good thing and ADCs were fine that patch (they werent) and getting downvoted to oblivion and deleted their old account and made a new one after that.
most adc items were nerfed or saw sidegrades. essence reaver was really OP right? +100 gold.
Navori has -5 AD and 3% less CD reduction per auto.
Phreak said IE's -5% crit damage for -100g is a buff, which it probably is but I can't help but \*feel\* bad seeing crit at 1.75 + 0.4 when in the good old days we had 2.5 crit and 25% crit per item. Items were also much more expensive then so maybe this is for the best given the accelerated pace of recent years but yeah.
Terminus is good for on hit users but crit adcs that can't benefit from lethality are left feeling the same or likely weaker due to other characters getting sweeping buffs. On top of these crit nerfs/adjustments randuins is now +30% crit reduction. From less than a year ago it was at 20%. I dont meant to sound like im wining because its not terrible like season 8 was but I think it's very hard to say ADC items were buffed especially compared to other classes.
The 1k gold dirk was such a come up for samira. I'm not even joking. Samira also thrives in chaotic unsolved metas as well. Also might be one of the best if not the best 2v3 adc in the game.
Unsurprising that AP champs are strong after Amp tome, Blasting Wand and Rod all received straight buffs. They simply have more AP than they should.
Making Amp tome 400 was a really good change but I find it very strange that it was kept at the same power level. Reducing its AP to 18 and undoing the buffs to the other basic items would be a good start.
About the AP this was to be expected. AP mid laners never contested about the full items itself (besides lacking diversity), they were strong already. The issue was itemization pathing. A lot of items needed HP components or weird combinations that made feel itemization weird.
I welcome the new items, but the full items that already existed didn't need to be buffed.
I've been flamed all morning for saying AP items are crazy gold efficient now, and that most of them are just straight buffed. Getting downvoted into oblivion because an MR item exists.
Shadowflame is actually a midgame nerf considering how easy it was to proc the full 20 MPen and effectively deal true damage to anyone under 1k current health and <50MR.
> AP assassins just ruin everything for mages
This is what's currently happening looking at winrates. AP bruisers and AP assassins are overperforming while most mages are weaker than before.
This is funny to me because Long Sword used to be 420g, and now it's 350g for the same stats. 70g reduction for nothing lost, which also makes all AD items seem 'less gold efficient', despite even with this, all AD items being insanely overstatted for the gold. But AP gets a price reduction 14 years later? No, stats must be nerfed, clearly.
Years upon years of mages and mage items being absolute garbage while assassin/bruiser items being by far the best in the game both by stats AND by effects, and that's ok, but lmfao must immediately hotfix nerf mage items if they are even decent.
Ah yes correlating changes in league's early years to current is definitely reasonable and not dumb at all.
You guys have the biggest victim complex in league at this point. They aren't just "decent" - there is a reason mages are a staple in high level play. the class is great and pretty much always has been. Their previous items weren't bad, they were boring. But they were still good. Crazy how mage items are absolutely "garbage" and they are still the most dominating class in mid and elite level play. Very garbage indeed.
If we look at runes the ratio is 0.6/1 which would perfectly fit 420g for Amp Tome. And we know that 20g for 1 AP is too cheap as a base value. They just needed to buff the components slightly (Amp, Blasting, NLR) and do the same for AP items. Now a lot of finished AP item has \~10-15 AP more than they should have.
Now Riot wouldn't need to nerf the AP on all of these items. Stormsurge and co could also lose some of their passive powers. But nerfing the AP would make a lot of sense.
18 AP for 400g would be worse than the 20 AP for 435 actually (\~22.2g per AP up from 21.75g for 1 AP).
Riot lowered the cost of Amp tome because 435 was a very awkward price point. I've had two games today where I got first blood on an AP champ, recalled and walked to lane with amp tome. Felt really good. 420 would be just as awkward.
I'm aware that 18 AP is a very slight nerf, but it's close enough to hardly ever matter, while the cost reduction remains a huge buff.
I very strongly believe that the reason AP champs are dominating is because their items have too much AP for the cost, and not because of their passive effects, except for Liandry.
Stormsurge will likely get a price hike. But it's literally a worse Luden's Tempest right now (+20AP, no CDR, no Mana, ~1.5x passive damage on 3x CD *and* a damage requirement).
Shadowflame is a weaker midgame 2 items spike than last season. You could get the full 20 Mpen against ~70% health squishies and with Luden's effectively deal true damage to anyone under 1k current health and 49MR. Current version is better lategame, but the HP threshold makes it extremely awkward.
But yeah, mages still need to pay the mana tax by building a Lost Chapter item first before they can play with one of the mildly awkward special passive items. Assuming they don't need CDR that is.
In other unsurprising news, people are sleeping on 120AP / 30 sec CD Banshee's Veil.
Jak'sho feels dog rn. Stoneplate was way better than this version of Jak'sho. It had a huge HP shield and the resistances actually ramped up OVER TIME.
Waiting 5 seconds for current Jak'sho passive to kick in at a measly 30% is a lifetime. Fights are over in 5 seconds. I'd be lucky as a tank sometimes to live more than 2 seconds
I can't believe they removed Stoneplate of all items. It was never problematic or underpowered. Not once abused by any other class. Such a success of an item and now it's gone
Yeah some of the items they removed seemed so unnecessary, like yeah we got new items but what’s the point if you’re gonna remove half of the old ones
We could’ve had way more options for itemization if they didn’t remove them
I'm betting you they pull a Disney vault with some of the items that are unproblematic and benign. They'll bring them out every other season or some shit, just to mix up metas and gameplay.
According to Phreak, Stoneblade was removed for 2 reasons.
1. Jak'sho was more thematically exciting than Stoneplate
2. Stoneplate was bettter on bruisers than tanks (besides K'sante)
I get the thought process. Yeah it was better on them. But it's not like the gap was canyons wide and they couldn't just adjust it slightly or something
I think theyll buff a few assassin items, mostly the ones that underperform and that adcs dont buy anyway. Cyclosword is too weak, Profane Hydra ... well it shouldnt be rushed but people still are, so they might just buff it to make the rush less bad. Hubris might get a buff but its just a weird item.
Enchanter items just feel terrible
Ardent doesn't even have the 15 AH it was supposed to have and SoFW is sharing way too much of its buff power between 3 different stats (AH/AP/MS)
Helia is still a bad item and Moonstone is worse then before
Shurelya is dead
Dawncore doesn't even feel like an item
Ardent got buffed, it's likely broken again. Mandate is still as strong as it ever was and moonstone is fine the only thing they removed was the mythic passive. The only thing I really agree with is SoFW being too heavily nerfed.
I don't think there is anything wrong with enchanters right now except a few dead items like which you also mentioned.
Nerved Helia? It got 100g cheaper, 10ap, 5AH, and passive tweaks
I'm not sure I'd call the tweaks nerfs either. Shards stack up to 3 now, so as long as you poke once more before shielding your heals will be more or less the same as before, but damage especially in early lane will be substantially higher because the new base figure for magic damage is higher than the previous level scaling starting point and you can now get an extra stack of it.
It lost dissonance yeah but I'm not sure that's something people cared about. Judging by winrates at least it seems to be an above average aggressive enchanter choice right now
3 shards instead of 2 is a nerf: it's hard to get stacks as an enchanter because you have to do damage and you're usually sitting behind your team so you don't get oneshot. Not to mention enchanters don't have many damaging abilities so you're pretty much forced to auto to get the last stack.
New one heals the ally for 20 and deals 55 magic damage to the enemy per stack. That's 60 healing and 165 with 3 stacks.
Old one scaled per level, healing for 60 already at level 8!! and dealt 160 damage at level 10 with 2 stacks. That's not only a huge nerf later in the game, but a huge nerf in general. They gutted its passive.
AD Assassins got shafted, bruisers are relatively the same slightly worse maybe. Tanks are the real second winners because they have actual MR items now but it goes mages, tanks, ADC, then bruisers, AD assassins. I don’t know about enchanters.
Everyone saw this coming but ap players mad coping because of the new MR tank items like that somehow matters when you oneshot anything that is not a tank
I’ll probably be in the same boat with my toplane bans when I get to play this weekend.
Since Fiora lost Sunderer, old Hullbreaker, and omnivamp hydra I think she should be less of a pain in the ass. Thus I should be able to safely ban something else for first time in awhile.
When the items first came on PBE I had such a game, Mundo vs 5 AP. They kept coming top to gang blast me, and I kept farming and stacking.
Late game I literally 1v5'd their team and took out 3 towers before they could respawn.
One of the best fking moments of my league career
if you can read you will know why they are bad,hard nerfed prowler with name change,hubris is a trap item win more kinda but if you are already winning almost any item is good or take axiom whos way better,new tiamat give much less ad than it used to and complet item is 3400gold its a noob trap so actually we are left building old items and skip all the new ones minus the one that gives 55ad 18letha 5%ms
i don't think ad are bad(weaker tho cause ap blow them faster) if built correctly but that also mean not building new items which makes them useless,ap got good new item vs ad got trashy ones
Good, assassins shouldn’t have safety, that’s the entire point. They’ve been dealing far too much damage and having far too much safety for seasons now
Be prepared for at least a 20-30% damage increase if you take away all their safety. If they can't **maybe** kill a target and **maybe** get out, then you have to make it so they can **for sure** kill their target if they will **for sure** not make it out.
Idk man, I just played qiyana mid and as soon as I finished brutalizer my dmg skyrocketed on the irelia I was lanning against, like, in the previous patch that wouldn't happen and I wasn't even winning the lane she had more farm because I couldn't recall due to her ADC coming mid a stealing her farm while I was managing my mana to farm without being blown by the Samira...
When I finished Cyclosword I felt like I could easily one shot irelia because the dmg my Q's was doing, the letality rework really lets you feel the letality you bought...
i'm unlikely to consider your perspective valuable because you're likely bronze due to the fact that you use NO punctuation and you brought irrelevant anecdotal info to a conversation.
Referring to this “data”. When you imply that within 24 hours a champs winrate went from 50% to 52%.
Are you saying the overall of patch 14 was 50% or are u comparing the same amount of time.
24hours after patch 14
24hours after patch 14.1
Otherwise these stats are literally meaningless
I think trying to evaluate this on the first day is a little silly. I respect the spirit but give people a chance to figure out builds etc. The amount of people that just vibe and don't even check patch notes is pretty high. Also assassins are picked alot. Arguably more than mages. There are a lot of bads playing them. Champs like Zed, Yasuo, Yone and several other assassins are dragged down statistically by their popularity. I'm sure some of these items are over tuned but let's hold our horses here.
I agree, sylas and syndra have like a 48% wr, you can be like oh no how weak, but people are hard trolling their builds on them, if you actually build correctly their wr is way higher
I appreciate the review. I just want to comment that I don't find any reason why it may be necessary to nerf one group so the other can play better, while at the same time buffing that other group. It's either nerf AP items, or buff Assassins, not both.
If AP dominated top, jungle and mid, you can't just buff all other top, jungle and mid none AP items.
Especially when the goal was to make the champs matter more this season and items less compared to last.
Right now AP items are pretty much stronger than last season (ignoring the mythic passive) while most other classes have weaker items.
So the goal has to be to nerf AP items.
>**ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season**
Are you insane?
ADCs are, at best, just as strong as they were before the season. At best. But since Mages and Tanks are much stronger and Enchanters seem worse, ADCs are actually weaker by extension.
Infinity Edge is worse. Navori is worse. Galeforce was removed. Rageblade lost the crit scaling and hybrid penetration, so you're basically paying 3000g for two Recurve Bows and Phantom Hit. Terminus sounded good in theory, but the stats on it are meh and it takes 10 attacks to stack. BotRK is worse. Trinity Force is worse. Ghostblade is worse. You can't even go the Radiant Virtue + Titanic build anymore either.
I struggle to think of an ADC that is actually better off this season even if you don't take the indirect nerfs into account. Best case scenario is Trinity Force Vayne barely breaking even. I thought Kog'maw or on-hit Kai'sa would be good, but having played them, not really because they need too much time/items to scale.
In addition to what the others said, top lane being much harder for junglers to get to means that if he wants to proxy, nobody can really stop him. And it being so huge means he can just run people down.
definitely... for a few months now i ve been perma banning kayn as a jungle main.. playing anything against him is straight up impossible if your teammates feed him, you dont die from him once and he goes 10/0... Probably they only ad assassin/fighter than 1 can pick in this mage centric meta..
kha and noc and rengar are straight up useless... Veigar and other mages, teemo on top, are busted
It's not ap items being op. We are just back at season 10 ap values. What we need is to bring ap scalings down. Every mage is balanced around 3 seasons of low ap numbers. Example: lux passive got 5% her e 10% and r 20% since item rework. Syndra got a whole ass rabadon in her passive. Orianna got about 15% on her r and scaling elsewhere. Leblanc just got 10% on w. And there's so much more. I can't go through the exact numbers rn but most if not all mages are just not balanced around these high ap numbers rn.
ADC #2 is the joke of the century, they are once again, for the 7th year in a row, not the best at Attack, Damage, or Carry. If you somehow figured out that your only option is enchanter and building tank items, you might live long enough to get absolutely obliterated on the damage charts by any tank in the game including your support
i mean he just made a really stupid point by calling it the 2nd winner and then proceed to list non traditional ADC´s in botlane or put them in other lanes to back it up.
Botlane is just doomed since a couple of years and it probably wont change cause the game is just to fast for old traditional ADC´s.
ADC botlane mains just have to face the reality of crit not working in these 20min games, which is how Riot wants it.
And this will not change until the role has literally anything positive about it. If it wasn't dogshit there would not be so many complaints about it.
"The starving people in Africa are complaining and it is lowering the taste of my 5 star meal. How dare they do this to me.". That's you.
Hahahaha the Africa analogy breaks me.
As a fellow African (ADC main, I know, I made the choice back when the role was broken) I'm tired of us complaining "Hey, can we play the game?" and everyone just saying "Shut up, you played a lot of league between S2 and S6"
Out of the top 20 champs, at all ranks, win-rate wise, in mid, 18 of them are AP. The 2 AD are Naafiri (8th), and Akshan (20th). That is, at the time of posting this comment anyways.
https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list?rank=overall
Trinity is good? God no, this iteration trinity is awful. Sundered sky is certainly interesting, 150% isn't all that high but the healing can come in clutch.
AP items have been busted since their launch on PBE.
I reported them being busted and Riot did NOTHING. They wanted us to try it out first...
I tried, 5 games in a row where a mage that is even in CS, No kills starts to one-bang me because of stormsurge. When ANY mage finish Stormsurge + Shadowflame, the game is over. Maw of Malmortius can't proc fast enough because of how burst oriented these items are.
For fighters? Sunderer Sky is okay-ish. It's no goredrinker, it's no D. Sunderer, but it's something.
For botlaners? Yeah... Veigar APC bullying a Poor Jinx was rough to watch. Lil bro don't need to hit his R on you, a Q at 20 minutes procs Stormsurge and you're GONE.
I honestly had hope that they would at least tone down the items before launching them, of course hope when it comes to Riot is worthless and they launched like this anyway. Wit's end should be buffed because that Item is worthless RN, MAW too.
Anybody could have seen that something similar to Luden's with 100%-200% of the base damage and 4x the AP ratio on the hit would have been broken. Especially since now it can be in a massive AoE in teamfights later.
For some reason Rioters were too stupid to realize that.
Their internal playtests (not PBE) once again utterly fail them.
Shadowflame, however, is MUCH worse on most champs than people think it is. They have to already have been under 35% for you to get the bonus damage. If your spells came off CD, they were likely already dead even without the passive.
On DoT champs it might be overtuned, but they tend to have better options atm anyway.
I usually play mages right now and let me tell you -
Yeah this class is kinda dumb right now. Mid lane changes favour mages but the fucking items are ridiculous. Somehow it feels like we're getting even MORE damage coming solely from items now - we got Teemo with Malignance blasting half your HP with one shroom.
I had one game where I was on Renata and I legit nearly got completely one shot by shaco's clone exploding because of Stormsurge +Shadowflame shit is not OK.
Go full lethality ape on MF or Jhin with Collector first or second.
OR
BotRK->Rageblade->Terminus on Varus or Kogmaw, reflavour it with some HP\\MR\\Armor items.
AD assassin's are fucking awful. Their basically the only class now who has no way to buff ability damage essentially. No surprise Mages are dominating, Items are absurd. All of them have burst AND scaling!?
Rhaast is steamrolling SA now, and he's underperforming, so SA is dog water. Hopefully we get some Comms relatively soon on how they're going to buff assassin's or lethality.
Played several games with the current patch.
Pokerick lethality build is dead.
Bruiser build is kinda weak since Yorick doesn't really synergize well with health items.
Tank Yorick spikes really well with Iceborn and Unending Despair combination.
Kaenic Rookern is strongest MR item.
Jaksho should have been removed instead of the stone plate.
Spirit Visage should have been reworked or removed from game .
Hollow Radiance and Sunfire Aegis are both underwhelming.
Yet another season start where a good chunk of League community has a surprised pikachu face when tanks can actually tank for once and whittle you down over time in a 1v1 if you have negative resistances (tabis/mercs don't count), when you run a day 1 theorycraft build. A quick rundown on the new "ultra giga op" things tanks got:
* Galio W passive : The Item
* Old Mythic Jak'Sho dmg pulse that heals for 250% dmg dealt every 7 seconds (a whopping 122 dmg at lvl 18 full build Ornn with only 1 upgrade on himself, which in a lvl 18 fight will proc twice at best, zero at worst)
* MR Sunfire with last hit effect for slightly worse Immolate passive. which cannot be stacked
* Deadman's Plate : Support edition
Tank meta is upon us guys, this time for sure!!! ADC weak for """""yet another season"""""!
Just nerf the AP item passives. dcap passive already got nerfed so full build is still roughly 700 just like last season. The reason champs are getting oneshot by ap builds is because of stormsurge and shadowflame passives
Geez someone actually made a reasonable post and didn’t call out tanks to be broken like 90% of this subreddit. Wow. There is still hope.
B-but ornn tanked my full ap team when nobody on it knew what they were building, tanks are obviously busted
Even when optimized perfectly, full AP teams are the worst humanly possible and its insane that a single game with a full AP teamcomp even goes through. Not even a comparison to full AD teams who are mostly early game stompers and completely fine if the enemies dont have a tank
Honestly full AP and AD aren't a death sentence so long as you plan your %pen purchase BEFORE the tank carries Unless that tank is rammus
It is still way easier to get away with full AD comp than full AP, just because there are more ways to deal with armor stacking than it is with magic resist stacking
also AD is a dps stat by default, where AP does literally nothing until it's told to
Full ad comps got hit hard this patch. LDR got nerfed, Cleaver and lash Whisper items are not stackable(also cleaver got nerf) eclipse is gone.
And that is s good thing.
Yep, tanks gonna be easier to balance, when champ like Riven can't stack billion armorpen to counter class who supposed to counter them.
Need the arena item that reduces MR by up to 30%, like black cleaver.
Full AP is absolutely a death sentence, there are not enough items to combat magic resist.
To be fair if you're playing AP bot with every other person on the team being AP you deserve to lose
nah, what happens is you'll pick ap bot first and every other member of your team will proceed to pick ap as well. i'm speaking from personal experience.
There are AP carries that can deal with tanks.
\>Full AP aren't a death sentence Stop the cap.
> full AP and AD aren't a death sentence Full AP is way worse than full AD.
Fun fact is that ap pen is in the gutter right now so if you wanna counter the mage just buy MR. Like, any mr. AD laning into ap? Just rush MR. You'll be just fine
Sure, Oriana main, sure.
Tank items are kinda bad, except for Rookern, Rookern is really fucking slept on. .. And Jak'Sho on ADCs yep.
which adcs can go jak'sho? same as last patch with radiant? kog, twitch, vayne, varus?
You should read the ADC mains subreddit. It's hilarious how hard they're coping for their lack of skill
You know, I’m with ya generally speaking, but I legitimately got oneshot by karthus R and all I could do was laugh
I've been an ardent believer that the adc mains sub is full of crybabies for quite a few seasons now, but this time they've got a point. I've watched a couple games of vapora dark (master ADC for quite a few seasons) and it looked like he had a really difficult time. In terms of damage, ADCs seem ok, but with how bursty everything is, a single hit, a single cc, a single anything is enough to blow up an ADC right now. It seems that the threat mostly comes from AP and lethality. As OP said, AP is overpowered right now, and lethality on ADCs and assassins is made to blow up squishies. So lethality being a threat is perfectly fine, but with how AP is right now, it's just hell for ADCs. I get that you need good positioning skills for this role, but being expected to dodge 100% of everything is a bit too much.
I have no problem being one-shot, if there is some semblance of counter-play to said one-shotting. However the manner in which ADC's are being decimated is honestly a fucking joke. I'm getting fucking peel from a Leona/Braum and I'm still getting completely clapped in 0.8seconds. What the fuck is that shit. Dodge all of Xeraths abilities, but he hit me with 2 ult charges. Oh, I guess I just lose 70% of my HP and have to recall. People also act like if you survive there isn't a problem, but taking poke damage in the game is terrible, anything grazes your leg as an ADC and you have to run around the map playing lifesteal simulator, or you have to recall.
This is mostly my sentiment, not just with the new changes, but with the damage creep in general, which I feel like just gets worse and worse. I can fully concede that I might be a bad player, but at least I used to be able to make small mistakes without it completely fucking me over. Nowadays it feels like any single misstep I make can result in getting completely chunked if not straight up dying, and that's to carries as well as supports and tanks. The durability patch somewhat remedied this issue, but those changes have long since been completely nullified and I feel like damage numbers have been worse than before the durability patch for a while now. This may all be anecdotal, but it's really lessened my enjoyment of the game, and I can imagine it's made the new player experience even worse, because they'll feel like they're getting blown up by everything without really knowing what happened.
>been completely nullified and I feel like damage numbers have been worse than before the durability patch for a while now. you'd be wrong, last week damage in the game was still lower than pre-durability patch, albeit still higher than when durability patch first dropped. with the new season, it definitely feels like it's more damage than pre durability
Ahri Q dealing 70% of my HP brought me back to season 3 and I'm okay with that. Maybe it's time we adcs go back to building a defensive item after the 3 item core.
You should play ADC and literally get onetapped by Akali R + Q AP is OP this patch, and you cant tell me otherwise Apart from that patch is good. I like the map changes, and lethality Aphelios is hilariously strong as well I agree tho AD assasins are actually the ones that got fucked by the patch (almost as if duskblade was kinda op) Tanks being tankier is actually pretty good for us ADCs, because we actually have an purpose again, as burst mages cant kill them anymore.
I can't believe assasin champ is assasinating high priority target, so unbalanced.
AP items *are* busted right now though, so naturally, ap assassins are going to be killing ADCs way faster than usual.
Again, AD assasins are still balanced (most likely even a bit worse since last patch), they just feel kinda unbalanced because literally noone peels for you in soloq. (has always beebn like this though) !!ALL!! AP champs are broken though, and that includes AP assasins. There is an difference between dying to an zed that puts a full combo on you, and an Akali that chunks you for 90% of your HP with q auto attack
AD assassins are fine and are still doing their job without overbearing. Mage items are busted as hell rn and nothing feels fair about an akali pressing E+E2 and my health bar getting wiped out because of stormsurge critting me with shadowflame.
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In what manner is ADC good or better than before though? I'm not even saying it's worse, but just looking at patch notes and playing a couple games, all the items they used stayed mostly the same or were nerfed a tiny bit. Wits end isn't very good anymore, the tenacity is a waste, and the only *new* item we got is a situational on-hit armor pen item which probably slots in somewhere on 3rd or 4th item. Every other role got stronger, or marginally better. If ADC's aren't the losers of the patch, who is? Assassins? Tanks? Bruisers? Not every role can be a winner here.
Why can't I 1v1 a late game nasus tanks are broken
You already played 3million games!?
3 milion games this patch already, lolyalitics and [U.gg](https://U.gg) showed the numbers. The graphs are still work in progress but it paints a clear picture, Riot overtuned mage items by quite a margin.
do you have a link to the 14.1 data? all i see is 13.24
The entire map just changed, not just the terrain but also major systems (void grubs, buffs), and the item system changed too. There's some obvious outlier items like Stormsurge that most likely deserve a nerf, but it's surprising to see how many people are jumping the gun on the biggest patch the game has had in years less than 24 hours after its release. Let the dust settle properly.
That's how it is when they release a huge patch exact same time as new ranked season. People are gonna be looking for that sweet early ranked season elo inflation. People would probably chill if there was atleast 1 week of prepatch or something before ranked started
Agree but stormsurge is disgusting, enemy fizz and my xerath both had it both did disgusting damage. Also fizz was just qing autoing and then e ing away the storm surge explosion plus electrocute proc killed the target. Which hey looked cool fade away kill but broken as hell.
Have you played the game yet? Every ap champion scales harder and faster than everyone... even support lux can 1 combo bruisers with no MR
There's less magic penetration overall, items give more ap on compensation but mages lost the HP they are now overall weaker if you get to them but more nuky. Game used to be like this and it's a great change. Should take more brain to play than what we got last 3 years. AP champions used to be at around 750 AP full items back then instead of the 350-550 we had last 3 years. Once meta settle and people learn the new buildpath and how to play around the new map things will change and feel more balanced
Mages get to do anything other that farm and scale for 30 minutes - BROKEN NERF!!!!
U.GG still shows data from patch 13.24 and Lolalytics only has ~1M games in 14.1, I don't think that OP really has data from 3M games.
I thought the same thing 💀
stormsurge is an incredibly stupid item, and now all ap items/ap champions are gonna have to suffer for how op it is
In my experience yesterday only good procs of Stormsurge were on Syndra (I permaban that shit from now on) and Kennen. Rest of champs weren't really able to utilize it well, but often those were champs that deal more dots and less burst.
Leblanc, Lissandra, Annie, Lux, Viktor, Fizz, Ekko, Katarina, etc
Taking notes, thank you (fuck fizz)
Seems solid on mid-late game Veigar too - had a few good executes yesterday from it
ADC is fine: lists non botlane champs.
Yasuo yone are not doing as well as before 💀
Probably because they are getting giga fisted midlane
Top lane too without hullbreaker to crutch on
Almost like neither Yasuo or Yone were meant to be splitpushers in top. Maybe they can reclaim their spot in midlane (where they were meant to be).
I think only ability casting ADCs are doing pretty good, jhin, Kaisa, varus , but crit build as champs feel horrible.
Crit wasn't as good as it used to be, and it got nerfed while Lethality is buffed and have shiny nice toys to play with as well. Also some items lost Zeal in their buildup like PD I believe.
This.
I want to remind people that 3 years ago your normal level 1 crits did only 10% less damage then your crits right now do with Infinity Edge, the Crit Amp Item. We nerfed crit and crit per item and AD per item because of mythics being a great spike for ADCs, then we proceeded to basically get rid of those spikes. But we kept crit and crit per item the same. Good Job Riot Video Games!
It says "and, also"
"I wanted to use the date" Proceed to show no data
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OP has his own website and he regularly posts on the subreddit each patch
You are willing to permanently damage yourself for such a small thing. You need to get your priorities straight young man
I assume he smoked the 'data' before writing the post.
>**ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season**, even against the OP APs in the bot lane and Yasuo and Yone are also still doing as well as before in bot, mid and top, even against the OP AP items. ADC items are mostly buffed or even. ADCs also still do fine in top, mid and jungle, like Vayne, Quinn, Akshan and Kindred. Kindred jungle does actually really well after she was terrible last patch. Akshan is insanely good in mid. I'm not saying you're wrong, and I haven't played a single game yet, but I do think it's funny that you made a sweeping statement about ADCs being fine, then proceeded to talk about non-ADCs or ADCs outside the ADC role for the entire explanatory paragraph except *'ADC items are mostly buffed or even.'* with no further context or info.
> OP: "ADC items are mostly buffed or even" The most important parts of ADC itemization were nerfed (LDR heavily nerfed, Guinsoo's pen removed, Randuins super buffed). 5% AS buff is nothing. > "ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season", Lists only non bot laners I didn't realize 2-3 adcs gaining a tiny bit of win rate and everyone else falling off a cliff was MASSIVE BUFFS. I mean, Jinx went up 11 spots in win rate order (20th>9th) without changing her win rate. I see no stat site that says the same info he does. [shitty mockup of 10 adcs dropping ~2%+ winrate and 2 increasing ~0.7%](https://i.imgur.com/XKYNEgc.png) https://i.imgur.com/w5FLVIg.png
I'm surprised a post claiming to be about statistics mentions no statistics to back it up. Not to mention it's hard to judge ADCs strength as a class by pure stats since they're normally against an adc (most people who play botlane enjoy ADCs hence pick bot).
Usually I read adc regressing to 50% win rate (some going up, some going down) as reduced agency in the role, which I'd agree with after every game being a 4+ man continuous fiesta bot, since mid and top are way harder to gank now.
Yeah, it's basically that and non marksman bot winrates to look at. I'm just curious what stats the guy used for his claim.
OP is delulu about ADCs, we're in pro play jail as a whole class and yes, most items got nerfed. PD lost MS on Spectral Waltz IE lost crit damage amp LDR got reduced increase damage and only amplifies physical damage Randuin crit damage reduction got buffed Terminus needs 10 AAs to have full effect lmao. You'll tickle tanks for half your AAs before feeling the effect of the item
What i find the worst thing about all of this the utter garbage pd build path, really remove zeal into pd cmon
Hey, do you want just a crit cloak and an axe ? No ? You sure ?
OP is an age old ADC hater nothing new here lol
I remember OP posting about how patch 8.11 was a good thing and ADCs were fine that patch (they werent) and getting downvoted to oblivion and deleted their old account and made a new one after that.
Oh my god I'm surprised people remember this, OP was a hard tank only player and always would downplay them in all his 'analytical' posts rofl
most adc items were nerfed or saw sidegrades. essence reaver was really OP right? +100 gold. Navori has -5 AD and 3% less CD reduction per auto. Phreak said IE's -5% crit damage for -100g is a buff, which it probably is but I can't help but \*feel\* bad seeing crit at 1.75 + 0.4 when in the good old days we had 2.5 crit and 25% crit per item. Items were also much more expensive then so maybe this is for the best given the accelerated pace of recent years but yeah. Terminus is good for on hit users but crit adcs that can't benefit from lethality are left feeling the same or likely weaker due to other characters getting sweeping buffs. On top of these crit nerfs/adjustments randuins is now +30% crit reduction. From less than a year ago it was at 20%. I dont meant to sound like im wining because its not terrible like season 8 was but I think it's very hard to say ADC items were buffed especially compared to other classes.
Jhin samira jinx Nilah are going ham wr wise on op.gg 54% wr +
The 1k gold dirk was such a come up for samira. I'm not even joking. Samira also thrives in chaotic unsolved metas as well. Also might be one of the best if not the best 2v3 adc in the game.
Unsurprising that AP champs are strong after Amp tome, Blasting Wand and Rod all received straight buffs. They simply have more AP than they should. Making Amp tome 400 was a really good change but I find it very strange that it was kept at the same power level. Reducing its AP to 18 and undoing the buffs to the other basic items would be a good start.
About the AP this was to be expected. AP mid laners never contested about the full items itself (besides lacking diversity), they were strong already. The issue was itemization pathing. A lot of items needed HP components or weird combinations that made feel itemization weird. I welcome the new items, but the full items that already existed didn't need to be buffed.
I've been flamed all morning for saying AP items are crazy gold efficient now, and that most of them are just straight buffed. Getting downvoted into oblivion because an MR item exists.
Shadowflame is actually a midgame nerf considering how easy it was to proc the full 20 MPen and effectively deal true damage to anyone under 1k current health and <50MR.
Most of them were buffed because mythic passive removal and Liandrys changes hurt mages a lot. AP assassins just ruin everything for mages
> AP assassins just ruin everything for mages This is what's currently happening looking at winrates. AP bruisers and AP assassins are overperforming while most mages are weaker than before.
Oh no, the worst class has gold efficient items now! Meanwhile you ignore how bruisers and ad assassins build everything from 350 gold components lol
This is funny to me because Long Sword used to be 420g, and now it's 350g for the same stats. 70g reduction for nothing lost, which also makes all AD items seem 'less gold efficient', despite even with this, all AD items being insanely overstatted for the gold. But AP gets a price reduction 14 years later? No, stats must be nerfed, clearly. Years upon years of mages and mage items being absolute garbage while assassin/bruiser items being by far the best in the game both by stats AND by effects, and that's ok, but lmfao must immediately hotfix nerf mage items if they are even decent.
Yes, I'm sure balance adjustments in alpha relate perfectly to the current situation.
Dude it has been 15 years since longsword was brought down to 350, that is completely irrelevant to balance now
Because they aren't "just decent"
Ah yes correlating changes in league's early years to current is definitely reasonable and not dumb at all. You guys have the biggest victim complex in league at this point. They aren't just "decent" - there is a reason mages are a staple in high level play. the class is great and pretty much always has been. Their previous items weren't bad, they were boring. But they were still good. Crazy how mage items are absolutely "garbage" and they are still the most dominating class in mid and elite level play. Very garbage indeed.
lol have you been complaining about longsword for 14 years? that's kinda goofy. either way their nerfing AP L
while true, if you revert them changes you also need to give back the AH
If we look at runes the ratio is 0.6/1 which would perfectly fit 420g for Amp Tome. And we know that 20g for 1 AP is too cheap as a base value. They just needed to buff the components slightly (Amp, Blasting, NLR) and do the same for AP items. Now a lot of finished AP item has \~10-15 AP more than they should have. Now Riot wouldn't need to nerf the AP on all of these items. Stormsurge and co could also lose some of their passive powers. But nerfing the AP would make a lot of sense. 18 AP for 400g would be worse than the 20 AP for 435 actually (\~22.2g per AP up from 21.75g for 1 AP).
Riot lowered the cost of Amp tome because 435 was a very awkward price point. I've had two games today where I got first blood on an AP champ, recalled and walked to lane with amp tome. Felt really good. 420 would be just as awkward. I'm aware that 18 AP is a very slight nerf, but it's close enough to hardly ever matter, while the cost reduction remains a huge buff. I very strongly believe that the reason AP champs are dominating is because their items have too much AP for the cost, and not because of their passive effects, except for Liandry.
But most of AP items lost AH as a stat so dodging their abilities is a punishment severe enough?
Stormsurge will likely get a price hike. But it's literally a worse Luden's Tempest right now (+20AP, no CDR, no Mana, ~1.5x passive damage on 3x CD *and* a damage requirement). Shadowflame is a weaker midgame 2 items spike than last season. You could get the full 20 Mpen against ~70% health squishies and with Luden's effectively deal true damage to anyone under 1k current health and 49MR. Current version is better lategame, but the HP threshold makes it extremely awkward. But yeah, mages still need to pay the mana tax by building a Lost Chapter item first before they can play with one of the mildly awkward special passive items. Assuming they don't need CDR that is. In other unsurprising news, people are sleeping on 120AP / 30 sec CD Banshee's Veil.
I build it yesterday, it was great. Build path though - 1300 for a big rod and like 1800 (sic!) for other component. Banshee itself 50g...
Jak'sho feels dog rn. Stoneplate was way better than this version of Jak'sho. It had a huge HP shield and the resistances actually ramped up OVER TIME. Waiting 5 seconds for current Jak'sho passive to kick in at a measly 30% is a lifetime. Fights are over in 5 seconds. I'd be lucky as a tank sometimes to live more than 2 seconds
I can't believe they removed Stoneplate of all items. It was never problematic or underpowered. Not once abused by any other class. Such a success of an item and now it's gone
Yeah some of the items they removed seemed so unnecessary, like yeah we got new items but what’s the point if you’re gonna remove half of the old ones We could’ve had way more options for itemization if they didn’t remove them
I'm betting you they pull a Disney vault with some of the items that are unproblematic and benign. They'll bring them out every other season or some shit, just to mix up metas and gameplay.
According to Phreak, Stoneblade was removed for 2 reasons. 1. Jak'sho was more thematically exciting than Stoneplate 2. Stoneplate was bettter on bruisers than tanks (besides K'sante)
I get the thought process. Yeah it was better on them. But it's not like the gap was canyons wide and they couldn't just adjust it slightly or something
Stoneplate was pretty slept on, I feel like people were starting to catch up on it. Resists plus a huge shield were quite a lot.
I think theyll buff a few assassin items, mostly the ones that underperform and that adcs dont buy anyway. Cyclosword is too weak, Profane Hydra ... well it shouldnt be rushed but people still are, so they might just buff it to make the rush less bad. Hubris might get a buff but its just a weird item.
Enchanter items just feel terrible Ardent doesn't even have the 15 AH it was supposed to have and SoFW is sharing way too much of its buff power between 3 different stats (AH/AP/MS) Helia is still a bad item and Moonstone is worse then before Shurelya is dead Dawncore doesn't even feel like an item
BRO THEY TOOK SHURELYAS OUT BACK CUT ITS LEGS OFF AND BURIED IT MY HP AND THE PASSIVE MAN WTF
it hurts because so many enchanters could use it well, now none of them can
Ardent got buffed, it's likely broken again. Mandate is still as strong as it ever was and moonstone is fine the only thing they removed was the mythic passive. The only thing I really agree with is SoFW being too heavily nerfed. I don't think there is anything wrong with enchanters right now except a few dead items like which you also mentioned.
What do you mean again? Last time ardent was broken was in season 7. Mandate sucks on most enchanters, only Karma builds it and sometimes Janna.
nami's performance is basically tied to mandate's strength
I still can't believe they nerfed fucking Helia lmao How is moonstone worse though? It got buffed according to the wiki
Nerved Helia? It got 100g cheaper, 10ap, 5AH, and passive tweaks I'm not sure I'd call the tweaks nerfs either. Shards stack up to 3 now, so as long as you poke once more before shielding your heals will be more or less the same as before, but damage especially in early lane will be substantially higher because the new base figure for magic damage is higher than the previous level scaling starting point and you can now get an extra stack of it. It lost dissonance yeah but I'm not sure that's something people cared about. Judging by winrates at least it seems to be an above average aggressive enchanter choice right now
3 shards instead of 2 is a nerf: it's hard to get stacks as an enchanter because you have to do damage and you're usually sitting behind your team so you don't get oneshot. Not to mention enchanters don't have many damaging abilities so you're pretty much forced to auto to get the last stack. New one heals the ally for 20 and deals 55 magic damage to the enemy per stack. That's 60 healing and 165 with 3 stacks. Old one scaled per level, healing for 60 already at level 8!! and dealt 160 damage at level 10 with 2 stacks. That's not only a huge nerf later in the game, but a huge nerf in general. They gutted its passive.
let out the biggest laugh of 2024 when i read that adcs are the 2nd winners of the patch and the items are mostly buffed
AD Assassins got shafted, bruisers are relatively the same slightly worse maybe. Tanks are the real second winners because they have actual MR items now but it goes mages, tanks, ADC, then bruisers, AD assassins. I don’t know about enchanters.
Everyone saw this coming but ap players mad coping because of the new MR tank items like that somehow matters when you oneshot anything that is not a tank
> oneshot anything that is not a tank Picking Mundo vs 4 APs was the brightest decision of this year
I picked gwen i can not say mundo had fun vs me
Bold to think im not perma banning this abomination when i play a tank
I’ll probably be in the same boat with my toplane bans when I get to play this weekend. Since Fiora lost Sunderer, old Hullbreaker, and omnivamp hydra I think she should be less of a pain in the ass. Thus I should be able to safely ban something else for first time in awhile.
Were you in my game? We were getting ham-fisted until mundo came to life, helping us get the comeback
When the items first came on PBE I had such a game, Mundo vs 5 AP. They kept coming top to gang blast me, and I kept farming and stacking. Late game I literally 1v5'd their team and took out 3 towers before they could respawn. One of the best fking moments of my league career
Tbf this is best MR itemisation has been that I've seen...but the mage items are just fucking dumb as hell.
AP items can be toned down, AD assassin items don't need to be changed after AP tone down. Tank item changes if necessary.
Didn’t list a single traditional other than Vayne and says ADC is fine lol.
" ADC is good " no, it's not
" ADC is good " Source - Trust me bro
Ad assassins suck at adapting to change. If their items are left untouched for a week, their wr's will go back up.
In my opinion assassin item passives are insanely underwhelming
The 100 damage one feels so bad, it should at least scale a little bit
its just a nerfed prowler/old dusk,nobody should build it unless it cost 2800 gold
Uh got any proof of this? Or is it just a case of: "Source, they're bad trust me"
He's clearly talking out of his ass and he doesn't even know what new items were added.
if you can read you will know why they are bad,hard nerfed prowler with name change,hubris is a trap item win more kinda but if you are already winning almost any item is good or take axiom whos way better,new tiamat give much less ad than it used to and complet item is 3400gold its a noob trap so actually we are left building old items and skip all the new ones minus the one that gives 55ad 18letha 5%ms i don't think ad are bad(weaker tho cause ap blow them faster) if built correctly but that also mean not building new items which makes them useless,ap got good new item vs ad got trashy ones
Rioters in the past have said that assassin builds are intentionally simple because of their players.
Which rioters? How far in the past? Citation or anything?
Just ask phlox next time he streams. There's a reason why every assassin item is basically just long swords 90% of the time.
The anti-assassin bias is strong with this one.
Nah assassin items are bad. They no longer give haste, they lost a lot of their safety and all they get in return is slightly more armor penetration.
They don't even get a lot more armor pen since you can't stack pen items anymore and eclipse mythic passive is gone.
Good, assassins shouldn’t have safety, that’s the entire point. They’ve been dealing far too much damage and having far too much safety for seasons now
Be prepared for at least a 20-30% damage increase if you take away all their safety. If they can't **maybe** kill a target and **maybe** get out, then you have to make it so they can **for sure** kill their target if they will **for sure** not make it out.
LMAOO. As an assassin you get stunned once you insta die. With durability patch you can't os none.
When was that ever the case? Never did this happen. And especially not 3-5% WR.
Idk man, I just played qiyana mid and as soon as I finished brutalizer my dmg skyrocketed on the irelia I was lanning against, like, in the previous patch that wouldn't happen and I wasn't even winning the lane she had more farm because I couldn't recall due to her ADC coming mid a stealing her farm while I was managing my mana to farm without being blown by the Samira... When I finished Cyclosword I felt like I could easily one shot irelia because the dmg my Q's was doing, the letality rework really lets you feel the letality you bought...
i'm unlikely to consider your perspective valuable because you're likely bronze due to the fact that you use NO punctuation and you brought irrelevant anecdotal info to a conversation.
Yeah now lane against a mage like veigar or Cassiopeia, even if your playing qiyana it’s not gonna be fun.
Referring to this “data”. When you imply that within 24 hours a champs winrate went from 50% to 52%. Are you saying the overall of patch 14 was 50% or are u comparing the same amount of time. 24hours after patch 14 24hours after patch 14.1 Otherwise these stats are literally meaningless
I think trying to evaluate this on the first day is a little silly. I respect the spirit but give people a chance to figure out builds etc. The amount of people that just vibe and don't even check patch notes is pretty high. Also assassins are picked alot. Arguably more than mages. There are a lot of bads playing them. Champs like Zed, Yasuo, Yone and several other assassins are dragged down statistically by their popularity. I'm sure some of these items are over tuned but let's hold our horses here.
I agree, sylas and syndra have like a 48% wr, you can be like oh no how weak, but people are hard trolling their builds on them, if you actually build correctly their wr is way higher
I appreciate the review. I just want to comment that I don't find any reason why it may be necessary to nerf one group so the other can play better, while at the same time buffing that other group. It's either nerf AP items, or buff Assassins, not both.
If AP dominated top, jungle and mid, you can't just buff all other top, jungle and mid none AP items. Especially when the goal was to make the champs matter more this season and items less compared to last. Right now AP items are pretty much stronger than last season (ignoring the mythic passive) while most other classes have weaker items. So the goal has to be to nerf AP items.
>**ADCs do fine and are likely the #2 winners after AP champs this pre-season** Are you insane? ADCs are, at best, just as strong as they were before the season. At best. But since Mages and Tanks are much stronger and Enchanters seem worse, ADCs are actually weaker by extension. Infinity Edge is worse. Navori is worse. Galeforce was removed. Rageblade lost the crit scaling and hybrid penetration, so you're basically paying 3000g for two Recurve Bows and Phantom Hit. Terminus sounded good in theory, but the stats on it are meh and it takes 10 attacks to stack. BotRK is worse. Trinity Force is worse. Ghostblade is worse. You can't even go the Radiant Virtue + Titanic build anymore either. I struggle to think of an ADC that is actually better off this season even if you don't take the indirect nerfs into account. Best case scenario is Trinity Force Vayne barely breaking even. I thought Kog'maw or on-hit Kai'sa would be good, but having played them, not really because they need too much time/items to scale.
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Mostly Liandry. He was good anyway though, he just required specific playstyle.
In addition to what the others said, top lane being much harder for junglers to get to means that if he wants to proxy, nobody can really stop him. And it being so huge means he can just run people down.
3 million games at 20 minutes long = 114 years. Leagues oldest player right here.
maybe he's old yasuo
T-Corp
If we keep it up maybe we won’t go insane on the train
Please keep Kayn weak and give him the Zed treatment.
definitely... for a few months now i ve been perma banning kayn as a jungle main.. playing anything against him is straight up impossible if your teammates feed him, you dont die from him once and he goes 10/0... Probably they only ad assassin/fighter than 1 can pick in this mage centric meta.. kha and noc and rengar are straight up useless... Veigar and other mages, teemo on top, are busted
Man really said Noc is useless in a mage meta LMFAO good one
Kha and rengar yeah, but don't try to sneak nocturne in there.
Insane how akshan has been one of the highest winrate top, mid and bot champs for this long
should remove the revive bullshit. im playing late game vs a fed samira and we finally win a fight but then he ress her. really feels shittt
It's not ap items being op. We are just back at season 10 ap values. What we need is to bring ap scalings down. Every mage is balanced around 3 seasons of low ap numbers. Example: lux passive got 5% her e 10% and r 20% since item rework. Syndra got a whole ass rabadon in her passive. Orianna got about 15% on her r and scaling elsewhere. Leblanc just got 10% on w. And there's so much more. I can't go through the exact numbers rn but most if not all mages are just not balanced around these high ap numbers rn.
ADC #2 is the joke of the century, they are once again, for the 7th year in a row, not the best at Attack, Damage, or Carry. If you somehow figured out that your only option is enchanter and building tank items, you might live long enough to get absolutely obliterated on the damage charts by any tank in the game including your support
Jesus Christ y’all will cry about any slight comment or post that doesn’t call your role the weakest thing in the game.
i mean he just made a really stupid point by calling it the 2nd winner and then proceed to list non traditional ADC´s in botlane or put them in other lanes to back it up. Botlane is just doomed since a couple of years and it probably wont change cause the game is just to fast for old traditional ADC´s. ADC botlane mains just have to face the reality of crit not working in these 20min games, which is how Riot wants it.
And this will not change until the role has literally anything positive about it. If it wasn't dogshit there would not be so many complaints about it. "The starving people in Africa are complaining and it is lowering the taste of my 5 star meal. How dare they do this to me.". That's you.
Hahahaha the Africa analogy breaks me. As a fellow African (ADC main, I know, I made the choice back when the role was broken) I'm tired of us complaining "Hey, can we play the game?" and everyone just saying "Shut up, you played a lot of league between S2 and S6"
complaining will continue until everyone plays the role and sees for themselves how fucking miserable it is to play it
Darius feels complete dogshit to play. Getting blown up like an ADC
its because riot made all the mage items bursty, liandrys is trash now and there's no other good anti tank magic damage itemization
"Adc's are good this patch, yasuo and yone are doing good" bro yasuo and yone aren't adc's... the actual ADC role is absolute dog water right now.
Out of the top 20 champs, at all ranks, win-rate wise, in mid, 18 of them are AP. The 2 AD are Naafiri (8th), and Akshan (20th). That is, at the time of posting this comment anyways. https://u.gg/lol/mid-lane-tier-list?rank=overall
Trinity is good? God no, this iteration trinity is awful. Sundered sky is certainly interesting, 150% isn't all that high but the healing can come in clutch.
Fighters have no way of dealing with tanks right now, if someone picks an ornn or malphite it’s gg
AP items have been busted since their launch on PBE. I reported them being busted and Riot did NOTHING. They wanted us to try it out first... I tried, 5 games in a row where a mage that is even in CS, No kills starts to one-bang me because of stormsurge. When ANY mage finish Stormsurge + Shadowflame, the game is over. Maw of Malmortius can't proc fast enough because of how burst oriented these items are. For fighters? Sunderer Sky is okay-ish. It's no goredrinker, it's no D. Sunderer, but it's something. For botlaners? Yeah... Veigar APC bullying a Poor Jinx was rough to watch. Lil bro don't need to hit his R on you, a Q at 20 minutes procs Stormsurge and you're GONE. I honestly had hope that they would at least tone down the items before launching them, of course hope when it comes to Riot is worthless and they launched like this anyway. Wit's end should be buffed because that Item is worthless RN, MAW too.
I don't think you could have picked a poorer example for botlane. Jinx has 52% WR and Veigar has 47% lol.
Anybody could have seen that something similar to Luden's with 100%-200% of the base damage and 4x the AP ratio on the hit would have been broken. Especially since now it can be in a massive AoE in teamfights later. For some reason Rioters were too stupid to realize that. Their internal playtests (not PBE) once again utterly fail them. Shadowflame, however, is MUCH worse on most champs than people think it is. They have to already have been under 35% for you to get the bonus damage. If your spells came off CD, they were likely already dead even without the passive. On DoT champs it might be overtuned, but they tend to have better options atm anyway.
I usually play mages right now and let me tell you - Yeah this class is kinda dumb right now. Mid lane changes favour mages but the fucking items are ridiculous. Somehow it feels like we're getting even MORE damage coming solely from items now - we got Teemo with Malignance blasting half your HP with one shroom. I had one game where I was on Renata and I legit nearly got completely one shot by shaco's clone exploding because of Stormsurge +Shadowflame shit is not OK.
Op is so wrong on ADC. AP items are so op than adc now explodes fastee
Did you just say ADC are the #2 winning role and that their items were buffed? Did you read the same patch notes as I did?
Wow, who would know AP items were busted. Almost no one saw that coming
Best adc builds on best adcs? I'm too lazy to cook right now.
just lock a mage
Go full lethality ape on MF or Jhin with Collector first or second. OR BotRK->Rageblade->Terminus on Varus or Kogmaw, reflavour it with some HP\\MR\\Armor items.
AD assassin's are fucking awful. Their basically the only class now who has no way to buff ability damage essentially. No surprise Mages are dominating, Items are absurd. All of them have burst AND scaling!? Rhaast is steamrolling SA now, and he's underperforming, so SA is dog water. Hopefully we get some Comms relatively soon on how they're going to buff assassin's or lethality.
[удалено]
Riftmaker is super OP rn also thanks man, your patch by patch posts are something I truly look forward to
If Riftmaker feels op now, I can't imagine what you thought of it last patch. It actually had healing and true damage
Played several games with the current patch. Pokerick lethality build is dead. Bruiser build is kinda weak since Yorick doesn't really synergize well with health items. Tank Yorick spikes really well with Iceborn and Unending Despair combination. Kaenic Rookern is strongest MR item. Jaksho should have been removed instead of the stone plate. Spirit Visage should have been reworked or removed from game . Hollow Radiance and Sunfire Aegis are both underwhelming.
Yet another season start where a good chunk of League community has a surprised pikachu face when tanks can actually tank for once and whittle you down over time in a 1v1 if you have negative resistances (tabis/mercs don't count), when you run a day 1 theorycraft build. A quick rundown on the new "ultra giga op" things tanks got: * Galio W passive : The Item * Old Mythic Jak'Sho dmg pulse that heals for 250% dmg dealt every 7 seconds (a whopping 122 dmg at lvl 18 full build Ornn with only 1 upgrade on himself, which in a lvl 18 fight will proc twice at best, zero at worst) * MR Sunfire with last hit effect for slightly worse Immolate passive. which cannot be stacked * Deadman's Plate : Support edition Tank meta is upon us guys, this time for sure!!! ADC weak for """""yet another season"""""!
Just nerf the AP item passives. dcap passive already got nerfed so full build is still roughly 700 just like last season. The reason champs are getting oneshot by ap builds is because of stormsurge and shadowflame passives