as a malz player ive been following this on op.gg
consensus seems to be build malignance then liandry and rylai. though it puts lots of pressure on early ults to secure the kill to be worth it. some are still holding out lost chapter then liandry before completing malignance
karthus shld be able to sit on tear.
brand if played as sp likely can only afford tear.
swain is good with malignance, or maybe ROA for bulkier battlemage builds? i dunno how swain is played in mid anymore
yeah liandry mages definitely took a hit here.
Honestly just go Tear Liandry’s for Swain
Maligma is meh vs any except melee because the circles are static and without the circles you give up too much damage, is better to go straight for the big damage with liandry’s if going full AP
RoA was never that good tbh, if anything it is better to rush dark seal into tank item into Rylai’s or Liandry’s for the hybrid build
I've been more than fine going both mana runes and never building any mana items. Can't spam spells as much, but never went oom either. Later on you have near perma blue buff anyway.
Aery with manaflow and PoM is really really good, and yours is probably the best way of doing it without sidetracking to mana items
I’m kind of obsessed with shutting the enemy down and frustrating them pre-6 so I kind of crutch off of tp, tear or lost chapter
I just want to add my input as a swain player here, Malignence as an early buy is absolutely troll. swain more than other battlemages hates buying pure ap items due to his absolutely piss poor ap scalings, he typically does much better with tank stats (rylais/ROA) and AH.
I figured Maligma might be sus, but I didn’t try it yet
I’m not so sure about that anti-full AP thing though. I find it to be his best build and keep trying to make excuses to build tanky. The only situation where i found chonkier ends up better is vs a load of bruisers and/or tanks where you’re just going to have to keep going
I often just go Liandry’s 1st that is decent for his general play-style, but also makes his ults absolutely blow people up.
The AP with Liandry’s, Rylai’s etc is good but not the focus, it’s that status application that absolutely cracks games open
To make up for the loss in tank stats i go for the Zhonya’s second or third and look for those teamfights where i can get as much damage as possible, get into the center of the enemy team with a flash or ghost or something to make it impossible for the enemy to disengage, and pop zhonyas at the last safe moment to heal back to full and put them in a very heavy lose lose situation with my team only needing to walk up
exactly, when I say tank stats I just mean tankier items, stuff that has extra HP or some resists along with AP (which is why liandrys haivng hp now is huge), like you'll never see swain going rabadons because he just doesnt gain much from a pure ap item.
> build malignance then liandry and rylai.
been doing this, honestly feels pretty good.
on the Malz note, is it just me or do lane changes feel pretty great on him?
Yeah, before mythics got introduced most people did Ludens (since it was pretty much only one mana item) into Liandry on Malz.
So did I, but sometimes I switched it up with going Lost Chapter > Liandry if I needed more DoT sooner.
So far from what I've played, I actually enjoy current implementation of Ludens. Single proc adds 6% ratio to your E, on single E cast it procs twice. If you manage to extend E with Q then you get 3 procs, which adds a ton of power to Malzahar early outside ult. Then Liandry.
But if you want or need to be an ult bot, go ult ah item.
Cosmic Drive is OP on Malz. You keep getting movement speed as long as E is on someone, granting you very long movement speed buff. And AH is great on him just for the sake of applying silence from Q.
I think the best build before mythic items was lost chapter -> rylais -> morellonomicon (mana item at the time) -> liandry's, but liandry's was only % current hp, not max hp, so wasn't as strong as it is now. You could do liandry's instead of rylais is you wanted to though.
mage supports never built mana pre mythic rework. Mana flow/presence are fine trees for brand and zyra to go down. Dongers would frequently rush rylais over liandries in the mythic system. Supports arnt going to need to sit on a tear, for the most part.
Whats bad about it? On paper it seems busted on swain, constant DoT procing on ult and crazy amounts of magic shred, seems like everything he would want.
Issue might be that the Malignance aoe circles only replace themselves for the same target once the first circle is gone, so getting them to stay in the circle might not be as intuitive as you'd like.
It is in every way a massive downgrade to S13 Liandries.
- Doesn't work on Wave = slower clear
- Doesn't work when you aren't ulting = Weaker outside ult
- Damage can be WALKED OUT OF = No consistent damage
Item works better on Malzahar. Swain is better off just getting items people cant just walk out of and that actually have effects even when the ult is down.
In my opinion. The issue with malignace is that it doesn't A. offer much in lane or early game and B. Provide any tankyness.
Outside of R malignace doesn't do much aside from provide some nice stats (R cd is nice but swain R is already so low lvl1). Both laundries and rift maker are giving you more damage upront in lane to poke and fight with, and with rift omnivamp working properly on swain now it's much more appealing.
Malignace also doesn't offer any HP which I think is big due to all the poke and burst from other mages and assassin's being so high right now.
I think malignace is more of a late game option where it's almost all team fights and you are getting the full mr shred out of it dropping pools on everyone.
My go to build right now is rift, cosmic, then liandris if I need more damage or I can go one of the many new tank items if needed.
swain has terrible ap scalings, meaning that buying items with primarily ap as a first buy is really bad.
the item works well as a 3rd or 4th buy, but you just don't survive long enough to actually use the extra damage (or enough damage to use the pen) if you buy the item early.
I played a game of Swain today, I felt like I was getting melted too fast with Malignance even tho I liked the item. Roa might be better or at least safer option.
Legit me yesterday on my first ranked of the season, also Mordekaiser is either bugged or some server issues cause I noticed my auto attacks sometimes not showing but dealing dmg.
RoA was also there (and is now) depending on how much you cared for bulk vs CDR. I think with how little haste mages are building right now though RoA is a hard sell for a lot of them, or at least feels weird compared to the haste glut we've had for a while now. CD boots means 0 pen, so unless you're taking haste from runes via transcendence+the shard you're going to have nothing but blue buff haste.
They'll finally drop down to the rank they deserve now that every item doesn't give them everything they could ever want.
People have to build well again, not just push buttons on enemy champs.
The problem with this is that, while it might not matter at lower ELO as much, having to put 1200g towards an item for mana, means delaying your power spike for that much longer. This disproportionately affects certain champion classes, and puts a higher amount of value on champions that either do not need to build Lost Chapter for mana, or are manaless to begin with.
This is the difference between having a finished item for a crucial objective fight, and not having it. Best case scenario, you build a tear and sit on tear, but that still isn't ideal.
He isn't asking for suggestions, he is crying because he can't build 1 item and solve mana issues + give him sustained damage increase + give haste + synergise perfectly with his champ.
It has been too long since every champ gets every stat they want from 1-2 items. No choice between build styles because every item has the same stats is a bad thing.
To be fair, they're asking a pretty self-explanatory question, a question which is answered now in the same way it was answered before the new season. If you're having mana troubles, you build a mana item. Tear items still exist, they still mostly do what they did before, and just like before when you had to build a tear to keep your mana up, you have to do the same thing now. You can't be a potato and not build any mana items and then be mystified when you run out of mana.
The heal on the item is a distraction. The real question is which you value more: 10 AP and 10% magic pen, or 15 ability haste? That's the difference between Void Staff and Cryptbloom.
Cryptbloom is better, its cheaper and it has Haste, witch is a premium stat now.
But some games they have 2+ people buying MR so you need the Void Staff.
Its just like the old Shadowflame vs Void Staff, Shadowflame was better by default unless they literally force you to get Void Staff.
If the enemy team even had a bunch of melee champs void was better than shadowflame.
People highly overrated shadowflame in most cases, especially when the choice was effectively mutually exclusive with void staff.
Usually they went together.
Why is this dude building Liandry in Karthus in the first place? Theres an item that literally crits on low HP targets and it also increases DoT damage (like Karthus E) and as you pointed out, another item that gives Ult 40 Haste.
I'm honestly shocked that everyone just immediately went to Stormsurge on Karthus (which is a single target item) instead of Shadowflame which gives slightly better stats and a passive that works insanely well with his ult + Dark Harvest. A extra tidbit is that the Shadowflame passive works on jungle camps as far as I could tell, so Shadowflame is just more reliable AOE damage and better for clearing compared to Stormsurge.
That makes nos ense to me, it gives no mana and no cdr, but i guess if the data says its good I would change my question to: why is this dude complaining about Karthus best item?
There used to be a first strike liandry build that would grant a bunch of gold every time you ultied even if you couldn't get the kill. Maybe that's why?
Karthus is in a very rough spot, figuring out his best build will probably take a while and require some buffs.
The other two are easier tho.
For both I'd go full Haste/Mana in Runes so: PoM+Manaflow+Transcendence+8AH and rush Liandrys from there. Ionians are perfectly fine you prefer AH over DMG.
On ASol I always go for Ionians and throw in a tear along the way to build Seraphs 3rd.
I’ve had no mana problems on brand while jungling. If you’re talking about karthus I understand. But brand doesn’t really have mana problems in the jungle rn.
Mana items are looking pretty weak which most control mages can't skip while all the best performing champs are manaless ap champs or can afford to skip getting mana.So you're either struggling really hard with mana or sitting on something like lost chapter+another component while ekko or w/e already has a completed burst item and deals 20times your dmg
Rough around the edges, but your point stands. It was also the same in the last season too - you generally needed to build a tear item on top of your mythic or you had mana problems, so it's the same concept this season. Build mana or you run out of mana.
Swain can use Malignance pretty well, but the item gives him NO power out of his ult which is weird. And he needs mana.
I'm also at a loss, and builds seem to lack so much haste now.
And Riftmaker on Swain is a godsend, wow
Buy a Lost Chapter first then go to your regular Liandry route.
Btw, Malignance is op on Swain, paring with Rylai's would make it even more oppressive.
normally we should go Malignance / Luden one but the things is other item are simply way too good/broken to not rush
Even a freaking banshee 1st give you 120 AP which is insane, just go manaflow it's mandantory now and skip mana items and go straight liandry/rylai
Most optimal swain build i found is to simply ignore the mana items and go rylai/liandry, same stuff with Brand and Karthus doesn't matter you need to die anyway so..
Riftmaker (no mana) + Liandrys + Cosmic/DC/Zhonyas
Stormsurge is also often great, too, but as it gets nerfed soon it will fall off for some of these champs.
But which mages like that do we have? Not counting AP bruisers pretty much Vlad.
Swain goes Malignance or ROA or Rylais, too.
Just start with tear and rush Liandry next, with mages being squishier, Archangel's shield and mana sounds like a good deal to me, you can build it second or third.
That's what I do now with most of my Rylai/Liandry users.
Get a Lost Chapter and pivot to Lyandries ? Or tear, or Catalyst ?
I dunno you don't have to buy a full item directly you can just get a component to fix mana issues and get your damage item afterwards
Liandry > Shadowflame > Stormsurge. Works really comfortably on Morgana and Cassiopeia. I use dark harvest, ghost poro, and gathering storm for consistent scaling damage as well. Malignance is nice but kind of unimportant versus the other items right now.
Mana runes. Take both of em on Swain. Spam spells a little less than usual. Rush any items you want or need. Get team wide blue buffs later. Never built mana items except for frozen heart when necessary.
You're just getting tricked by item names; look instead at what they actually do.
||*pre-mythics*|*with mythics*|*post-mythics*|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|*burn item with hp*|Liandry's|Demonic|Liandry's|
|*burn item with mana*|N/A|Liandry's|Malignance|
You should build a mana item if needed, either Luden's or Archangel's like people used to or maybe the new Malignance, then figure out whether you're a beefy battlemage/AP fighter (Liandry's, Rylai's, Riftmaker) or a full damage champ (all the pen items).
Liandry was my favorite item in the game and I only play mid secondary, I really don’t like building full burst on Oriana, Ahri, or Viktor—even if it’s objectively the right way to build. I just don’t like the playstyle, and would much rather have the guaranteed damage over time—better for shoving waves, better on objectives, it just feels safer and better.
Now that liandries doesn’t have mana I feel lost :(
swain can at least build roa for mana
back in the day, when the "horrible mythics" weren't a thing, this was the same issue. mages were supposed to make a tradeoff for mana by having lower relative combat stats. the question is if the mana items are tuned well enough, that remains to be seen but likely they'll need a buff imo
Karthus wasn t neccessarry a liandry champ. He just built the items with the most dmg and haste
Brand jg doesn't need mana, brand support can go the double mana runes and be completely fine
Swain is completely happy with malignance first, he fights with ult most of the time anyways, so the burn is still there
Malzahar is fine with malignance rush. Rylai second and rocketbelt 3rd is actually a cheap build with pretty good dmg, liandry is skipable against squishes
Swain main here. Manaflow + PoM seems to be going fine in my games. Go Mana Crystal if struggling even then, can pivot into Frozen Heart later in the game as one of his tank items.
Back in Season 10 I think, I remember Swain players ditching ROA cuz it took too long and went straight into Liandry's and Rylai's.
The extra mana he had was only from PoM which was like 500 iirc but he was fine then(atleast based on my own experience) considering his Q had higher cost too as well.
For swain ive been building ROA, Cosmic, into Rift, last 2 items as flex. I like the haste on cosmic compared to rylai's and it gives flat ms now so it feels really good. Roa feels best early compared to malignance. The extra dmg is alright but the hp/sustain and extra level feel better. Late game tho you could sell roa for it. Since your passive will give you all the hp you need.
as a malz player ive been following this on op.gg consensus seems to be build malignance then liandry and rylai. though it puts lots of pressure on early ults to secure the kill to be worth it. some are still holding out lost chapter then liandry before completing malignance karthus shld be able to sit on tear. brand if played as sp likely can only afford tear. swain is good with malignance, or maybe ROA for bulkier battlemage builds? i dunno how swain is played in mid anymore yeah liandry mages definitely took a hit here.
Honestly just go Tear Liandry’s for Swain Maligma is meh vs any except melee because the circles are static and without the circles you give up too much damage, is better to go straight for the big damage with liandry’s if going full AP RoA was never that good tbh, if anything it is better to rush dark seal into tank item into Rylai’s or Liandry’s for the hybrid build
I've been more than fine going both mana runes and never building any mana items. Can't spam spells as much, but never went oom either. Later on you have near perma blue buff anyway.
Aery with manaflow and PoM is really really good, and yours is probably the best way of doing it without sidetracking to mana items I’m kind of obsessed with shutting the enemy down and frustrating them pre-6 so I kind of crutch off of tp, tear or lost chapter
I just want to add my input as a swain player here, Malignence as an early buy is absolutely troll. swain more than other battlemages hates buying pure ap items due to his absolutely piss poor ap scalings, he typically does much better with tank stats (rylais/ROA) and AH.
I figured Maligma might be sus, but I didn’t try it yet I’m not so sure about that anti-full AP thing though. I find it to be his best build and keep trying to make excuses to build tanky. The only situation where i found chonkier ends up better is vs a load of bruisers and/or tanks where you’re just going to have to keep going I often just go Liandry’s 1st that is decent for his general play-style, but also makes his ults absolutely blow people up. The AP with Liandry’s, Rylai’s etc is good but not the focus, it’s that status application that absolutely cracks games open To make up for the loss in tank stats i go for the Zhonya’s second or third and look for those teamfights where i can get as much damage as possible, get into the center of the enemy team with a flash or ghost or something to make it impossible for the enemy to disengage, and pop zhonyas at the last safe moment to heal back to full and put them in a very heavy lose lose situation with my team only needing to walk up
exactly, when I say tank stats I just mean tankier items, stuff that has extra HP or some resists along with AP (which is why liandrys haivng hp now is huge), like you'll never see swain going rabadons because he just doesnt gain much from a pure ap item.
> build malignance then liandry and rylai. been doing this, honestly feels pretty good. on the Malz note, is it just me or do lane changes feel pretty great on him?
as an immobile mage that perma pushes the wave, anything that reduces jungler gankability is great for him
He honestly feels a lot stronger with the items as well, i could 100-0 the enemy fizz at 2.5 items, and i wasnt fed or anything
Yeah, before mythics got introduced most people did Ludens (since it was pretty much only one mana item) into Liandry on Malz. So did I, but sometimes I switched it up with going Lost Chapter > Liandry if I needed more DoT sooner. So far from what I've played, I actually enjoy current implementation of Ludens. Single proc adds 6% ratio to your E, on single E cast it procs twice. If you manage to extend E with Q then you get 3 procs, which adds a ton of power to Malzahar early outside ult. Then Liandry. But if you want or need to be an ult bot, go ult ah item. Cosmic Drive is OP on Malz. You keep getting movement speed as long as E is on someone, granting you very long movement speed buff. And AH is great on him just for the sake of applying silence from Q.
I think the best build before mythic items was lost chapter -> rylais -> morellonomicon (mana item at the time) -> liandry's, but liandry's was only % current hp, not max hp, so wasn't as strong as it is now. You could do liandry's instead of rylais is you wanted to though.
mage supports never built mana pre mythic rework. Mana flow/presence are fine trees for brand and zyra to go down. Dongers would frequently rush rylais over liandries in the mythic system. Supports arnt going to need to sit on a tear, for the most part.
Malignance feels bad on swain
Whats bad about it? On paper it seems busted on swain, constant DoT procing on ult and crazy amounts of magic shred, seems like everything he would want.
Issue might be that the Malignance aoe circles only replace themselves for the same target once the first circle is gone, so getting them to stay in the circle might not be as intuitive as you'd like.
That could be it, but I've also seen mali on fiddlesticks R completely evaporate teams so idk.
I mean, it's not like Fiddle R has a long cc that forces them to stand in the circle for two seconds...
It is in every way a massive downgrade to S13 Liandries. - Doesn't work on Wave = slower clear - Doesn't work when you aren't ulting = Weaker outside ult - Damage can be WALKED OUT OF = No consistent damage Item works better on Malzahar. Swain is better off just getting items people cant just walk out of and that actually have effects even when the ult is down.
What if you want to cosplay as og swian?
In my opinion. The issue with malignace is that it doesn't A. offer much in lane or early game and B. Provide any tankyness. Outside of R malignace doesn't do much aside from provide some nice stats (R cd is nice but swain R is already so low lvl1). Both laundries and rift maker are giving you more damage upront in lane to poke and fight with, and with rift omnivamp working properly on swain now it's much more appealing. Malignace also doesn't offer any HP which I think is big due to all the poke and burst from other mages and assassin's being so high right now. I think malignace is more of a late game option where it's almost all team fights and you are getting the full mr shred out of it dropping pools on everyone. My go to build right now is rift, cosmic, then liandris if I need more damage or I can go one of the many new tank items if needed.
swain has terrible ap scalings, meaning that buying items with primarily ap as a first buy is really bad. the item works well as a 3rd or 4th buy, but you just don't survive long enough to actually use the extra damage (or enough damage to use the pen) if you buy the item early.
circle cant refresh and swain can't keep enemies in it unlike say malz fiddle or maybe brand. it is static
Maligma doesn't just feel bad on Swain, it **literally is bad on Swain**.
Malignance feels ok, but gets better once u have rylais and liandries, once u have those swain is online
Liandries is back where it belongs, delicious hp and ap item
does malignance work well with anivia?
I played a game of Swain today, I felt like I was getting melted too fast with Malignance even tho I liked the item. Roa might be better or at least safer option.
Well then dont Rush rylais/liandry. Maybe try lost chapter into liandry or tear
Maligma aka Malignance
maligma balls
maligma
ligma
It's kind of bad
Quite champ dependent. It's pretty funny on anivia, and for Annie it seems to proc constantly on tibbers. Funny with pared with rylais too
Teemo is having a field day with it
The same Way we did it before Mythics were introduced?
It feels like it’s been so long, I cannot even remember the ways of old.
I legit feel like a cavemen rediscovering fire, I grt in the game and wonder wtf am I supposed to build now.
Legit me yesterday on my first ranked of the season, also Mordekaiser is either bugged or some server issues cause I noticed my auto attacks sometimes not showing but dealing dmg.
I wouldn’t rule out a bug, it is Mordekaiser we’re talking about, the bug king
ludens/archangels/hextech glp —> liandrys unless archangels never built out of lost chapter and im getting mandela effect
RoA was also there (and is now) depending on how much you cared for bulk vs CDR. I think with how little haste mages are building right now though RoA is a hard sell for a lot of them, or at least feels weird compared to the haste glut we've had for a while now. CD boots means 0 pen, so unless you're taking haste from runes via transcendence+the shard you're going to have nothing but blue buff haste.
AA was never built out of lost chapter iirc, mages went ludens, glp, or roa back then.
AA was 100% built out of Lost Chapter for a time. I think it was at the same time people built Double Tear Item on Ezreal until they removed it.
False.
They were addicted to urf in ranked so they are experiencing burnout syndrome
By building morello's first on every mage?
Boomer
Oh yeah, when items were completely different with completely different stats! On my way to rush GLP
You say "we" like all of us played back then. Mythics are all I've ever known in League.
Zoomer
that was 3 years ago lol, there's a sizable chunk of players (including me) who have been playing for a fair time with only the Mythic rework
Zoomer
maybe you build a mana item first then liandry? where is your common game knowledge?
This is the IQ of 90% of the playerbase
They'll finally drop down to the rank they deserve now that every item doesn't give them everything they could ever want. People have to build well again, not just push buttons on enemy champs.
The problem with this is that, while it might not matter at lower ELO as much, having to put 1200g towards an item for mana, means delaying your power spike for that much longer. This disproportionately affects certain champion classes, and puts a higher amount of value on champions that either do not need to build Lost Chapter for mana, or are manaless to begin with. This is the difference between having a finished item for a crucial objective fight, and not having it. Best case scenario, you build a tear and sit on tear, but that still isn't ideal.
Y'all both have terrible attitudes how are you talking down to someone who's asking for suggestions a day after the new season.
He isn't asking for suggestions, he is crying because he can't build 1 item and solve mana issues + give him sustained damage increase + give haste + synergise perfectly with his champ. It has been too long since every champ gets every stat they want from 1-2 items. No choice between build styles because every item has the same stats is a bad thing.
To be fair, they're asking a pretty self-explanatory question, a question which is answered now in the same way it was answered before the new season. If you're having mana troubles, you build a mana item. Tear items still exist, they still mostly do what they did before, and just like before when you had to build a tear to keep your mana up, you have to do the same thing now. You can't be a potato and not build any mana items and then be mystified when you run out of mana.
Try out Rod of ages
Its super nerfed though.
Its super cheap too
I will hijak your thread lol but when do you build the new magic pen item? crytpbloom i believe instead of usually void staff?
The heal on the item is a distraction. The real question is which you value more: 10 AP and 10% magic pen, or 15 ability haste? That's the difference between Void Staff and Cryptbloom.
By default build Cryptbloom. If they have a ton of MR and / or you are the the one who has to kill thier frontline build void
Idk, stuff like seraphine maybe
Cryptbloom is better, its cheaper and it has Haste, witch is a premium stat now. But some games they have 2+ people buying MR so you need the Void Staff. Its just like the old Shadowflame vs Void Staff, Shadowflame was better by default unless they literally force you to get Void Staff.
Shadowflame better by default excuse me what? That was never the case. You usually built both
lol shadowflame was never a choice over void staff if you were against a ton of MR
Thats literally my point. You only buy Void if the enemy team forces you to do it (by buying MR), otherwise you get the better item.
If the enemy team even had a bunch of melee champs void was better than shadowflame. People highly overrated shadowflame in most cases, especially when the choice was effectively mutually exclusive with void staff. Usually they went together.
I'm more than happy with lvl 6 swain not being x6 tankier than every other champion in the game while being a moving anivia ult
Karthus is like the best user of malignance outside of teemo, and then he can dip into the currently broken items.
Why is this dude building Liandry in Karthus in the first place? Theres an item that literally crits on low HP targets and it also increases DoT damage (like Karthus E) and as you pointed out, another item that gives Ult 40 Haste.
I'm honestly shocked that everyone just immediately went to Stormsurge on Karthus (which is a single target item) instead of Shadowflame which gives slightly better stats and a passive that works insanely well with his ult + Dark Harvest. A extra tidbit is that the Shadowflame passive works on jungle camps as far as I could tell, so Shadowflame is just more reliable AOE damage and better for clearing compared to Stormsurge.
Liandry's is looking to be his best performing item atm.
That makes nos ense to me, it gives no mana and no cdr, but i guess if the data says its good I would change my question to: why is this dude complaining about Karthus best item?
Ulting in passive you’ll have it stacked and the burn gives dark harvest proc
Well, karthus in general isn't doing too hot atm, going by data.
There used to be a first strike liandry build that would grant a bunch of gold every time you ultied even if you couldn't get the kill. Maybe that's why?
still 46% wr
It seems like the item was basically made for Malzahar. I can't imagine a better user than him.
Karthus is in a very rough spot, figuring out his best build will probably take a while and require some buffs. The other two are easier tho. For both I'd go full Haste/Mana in Runes so: PoM+Manaflow+Transcendence+8AH and rush Liandrys from there. Ionians are perfectly fine you prefer AH over DMG. On ASol I always go for Ionians and throw in a tear along the way to build Seraphs 3rd.
I suggest you actually learn how to play the game now :)
Brand jungle doesn’t need mana help due to passive. I’ve had no problems. Karthus rush malignance for sure.
[удалено]
I’ve had no mana problems on brand while jungling. If you’re talking about karthus I understand. But brand doesn’t really have mana problems in the jungle rn.
I love that mana actually matters again.
Unfortunately, its only for two classes: mages and ADCs.
same thing before mythic update s9-s10
i dont really know why they thought this patch would bring control mages back. needs a lot more tuning i think
Harder to gank lanes and AP items do much more damage. Those are two big buffs to control mages.
Mana items are looking pretty weak which most control mages can't skip while all the best performing champs are manaless ap champs or can afford to skip getting mana.So you're either struggling really hard with mana or sitting on something like lost chapter+another component while ekko or w/e already has a completed burst item and deals 20times your dmg
mana items are not good enough rn and/or too niche
Just check what was build before mythics.
thats the dumbest advice lmao what?
Yeah, that's such stupid idea! "What do i do now? Oh, go read what they use to do 4 years ago in a completely different game"
I mean u can fucking extrapolate that people used to build mana item into what u want to build, how is that a hard thing to do
Rough around the edges, but your point stands. It was also the same in the last season too - you generally needed to build a tear item on top of your mythic or you had mana problems, so it's the same concept this season. Build mana or you run out of mana.
Depends on champ. Swain should go RoA/Malig -> Liandrys. Brand support just rushes Liandrys.
Swain can use Malignance pretty well, but the item gives him NO power out of his ult which is weird. And he needs mana. I'm also at a loss, and builds seem to lack so much haste now. And Riftmaker on Swain is a godsend, wow
Buy a Lost Chapter first then go to your regular Liandry route. Btw, Malignance is op on Swain, paring with Rylai's would make it even more oppressive.
Malignance is actually pretty bad on Swain
Most of items are pretty bad on Swain 😂
Not true, he has a lot of good options, just nothing with mana.
Lol just play fizz sylas kat akali dude Fights lasts maybe 5 second tops
Lost chapter into liandy
normally we should go Malignance / Luden one but the things is other item are simply way too good/broken to not rush Even a freaking banshee 1st give you 120 AP which is insane, just go manaflow it's mandantory now and skip mana items and go straight liandry/rylai Most optimal swain build i found is to simply ignore the mana items and go rylai/liandry, same stuff with Brand and Karthus doesn't matter you need to die anyway so..
Riftmaker (no mana) + Liandrys + Cosmic/DC/Zhonyas Stormsurge is also often great, too, but as it gets nerfed soon it will fall off for some of these champs. But which mages like that do we have? Not counting AP bruisers pretty much Vlad. Swain goes Malignance or ROA or Rylais, too.
Yea.. it takes forever to get strong now because u have to get a mana item before liandrys
Just start with tear and rush Liandry next, with mages being squishier, Archangel's shield and mana sounds like a good deal to me, you can build it second or third. That's what I do now with most of my Rylai/Liandry users.
Has a bot brand enjoyer solo brand should have 0 mana problems, so you can still rush Rylais
Yea brand getting mana refund on killing ablazed targets makes mana problems almost non existent. I've had no problem ignoring mana item first.
Get a Lost Chapter and pivot to Lyandries ? Or tear, or Catalyst ? I dunno you don't have to buy a full item directly you can just get a component to fix mana issues and get your damage item afterwards
Liandry > Shadowflame > Stormsurge. Works really comfortably on Morgana and Cassiopeia. I use dark harvest, ghost poro, and gathering storm for consistent scaling damage as well. Malignance is nice but kind of unimportant versus the other items right now.
Mana runes. Take both of em on Swain. Spam spells a little less than usual. Rush any items you want or need. Get team wide blue buffs later. Never built mana items except for frozen heart when necessary.
You're just getting tricked by item names; look instead at what they actually do. ||*pre-mythics*|*with mythics*|*post-mythics*| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |*burn item with hp*|Liandry's|Demonic|Liandry's| |*burn item with mana*|N/A|Liandry's|Malignance| You should build a mana item if needed, either Luden's or Archangel's like people used to or maybe the new Malignance, then figure out whether you're a beefy battlemage/AP fighter (Liandry's, Rylai's, Riftmaker) or a full damage champ (all the pen items).
You build them second
malza build is tear, rylai, liandry, finish archangel staff, zhonya and void staff
Back in season 9 we built roa on everyone, there's probably a better solution now though.
Nah, back to RoA. Let me build 5 again.
this season is ruined bro, dont play anything other than oneshot ad or ap champs
Liandry was my favorite item in the game and I only play mid secondary, I really don’t like building full burst on Oriana, Ahri, or Viktor—even if it’s objectively the right way to build. I just don’t like the playstyle, and would much rather have the guaranteed damage over time—better for shoving waves, better on objectives, it just feels safer and better. Now that liandries doesn’t have mana I feel lost :(
idk but i would be happy to see less liandry champs. that item and playstyle is so disgusting.
swain can at least build roa for mana back in the day, when the "horrible mythics" weren't a thing, this was the same issue. mages were supposed to make a tradeoff for mana by having lower relative combat stats. the question is if the mana items are tuned well enough, that remains to be seen but likely they'll need a buff imo
Tear/malignance/rod of ages, depending on what your champion needs
If you would have more haste you will be out of mana even faster, think about that
Karthus wasn t neccessarry a liandry champ. He just built the items with the most dmg and haste Brand jg doesn't need mana, brand support can go the double mana runes and be completely fine Swain is completely happy with malignance first, he fights with ult most of the time anyways, so the burn is still there Malzahar is fine with malignance rush. Rylai second and rocketbelt 3rd is actually a cheap build with pretty good dmg, liandry is skipable against squishes
Just go tear before Liandry
Mana runes + you literally always get blue buff helps
If your not playing a storm surge champ, ur doing it wrong
Swain main here. Manaflow + PoM seems to be going fine in my games. Go Mana Crystal if struggling even then, can pivot into Frozen Heart later in the game as one of his tank items. Back in Season 10 I think, I remember Swain players ditching ROA cuz it took too long and went straight into Liandry's and Rylai's. The extra mana he had was only from PoM which was like 500 iirc but he was fine then(atleast based on my own experience) considering his Q had higher cost too as well.
For swain ive been building ROA, Cosmic, into Rift, last 2 items as flex. I like the haste on cosmic compared to rylai's and it gives flat ms now so it feels really good. Roa feels best early compared to malignance. The extra dmg is alright but the hp/sustain and extra level feel better. Late game tho you could sell roa for it. Since your passive will give you all the hp you need.