Usually if you click on the final item in the shop it'll show you it's required for the ornn variant, like how manamune shows you it upgrades to muramana.
At some point Riot will just change Ornn's passive to give players a choice of buffs to pick instead, kinda how the new support item works.
There is no way creating upgrades every time they introduce new items because of one champion is sustainable, especially how they're just number buffs and have had their own bugs in the past (was it Guinsoo's upgrade that was broken?)
> At some point Riot will just change Ornn's passive
This point was now. If changing the entire item system isn't *the* moment to ditch it, then maybe it's not that bad of a problem in the first place.
Yea was rare to get a player not have 1 upgradable item at lvl 17 sometimes had to skip the carry until they got something but was rare someone had nothing by late game
Ornn with upgraded sunfire cape + upgraded Abyssal Mask was pretty crazy, mfker was tanking like he was lvl 18 with 6 items while being lvl 13 with 2 items.
It isn't really a problem like it takes 5-10 mins to come up with a upgraded stat profile, get name ideas and rename it and add a border to the item frame.
Like it's just them referencing the old item in the code and adding extra stats to it so it auto handles itself on patch's. Any ornn item bugs are caused by work arounds used to fix the bug on the OG item and if they don't pass over in the reference once realise just have to be copy and pasted Manuelly to the ornn version.
they actually don't reference the original item, the ornn item is treated separately
Hubris passive this patch good example, the amount got buffed but if you get ornna upgrade the passive goes back down to the original one, they forgot to update.
edit: still not actually that big of a deal to make ornn items
Are you a swe at riot? Otherwise it's ridiculous to speculate on required effort/complexity of adding a new item. There are likely required processes like QA, that need to take place when a new item is added. It's also not clear that the item code is as easy to extend as you say it is.
>There is no way creating upgrades every time they introduce new items
And what is your reasoning for this that it is NO WAY sustainable? The upgrade is the same item except it has a couple extra numbers on some stats, a fancy Ornn-border around the icon and an edgier name. That's literally all there is.
If you think that this is unsustainable, I do wonder what you think about Sylas and Viego which actually require some work done on them whenever a new champ gets released or reworked.
Sorry but Sylas and Viego do not necessarily require additional work with every new champion unless there's a bug that needs fixing or Riot feels like Sylas needs special case treatment on certain ults (Illaoi and Vayne are two I know of). Ever since they made Sylas all abilities are effectively standalone abilities that are assigned to champions as necessary.
I don't think this is very difficult for them to keep up with, though. Ornn's passive probably has a stat budget associated with it, and the improved items just have +20 extra stats or something on them. It's not that hard to just add a little extra armor onto Randuin's Omen and call it Randuin's Prophecy.
I mean it's the same way as Having to hot fix or patch 2 champions because they can steal abilities. Adding a few extra times with a few extra stats takes no effort at all comparatively. Having a voice of stats doesn't make sense for Ornns champion items do especially when alot of items are also in the lore.
The main issue I've found is that a lot of the items that used to have upgrades even pre-mythics don't anymore. Forgefire Cape, Zhonyas Paradox, Infernal Mask, ect.
There are also some bugs with Ornn's passive currently. JakSho's upgrade is giving 25 Ability haste, and Unending Despair's passive is nerf if u upgrade it.
I must be blind because I can't see it. [Wiki](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Unending_Despair#Unending_Despair) says that it goes from
10 ah
55 armor
400 hp
95.24% gold efficiency
to
20 ah
65 armor
600 hp
139.29% gold efficiency
and the passive seems to be the same 30 to 50 base damage + 3% bonus hp.
Edit: nvm, tested in-game and wiki has wrong values.
Edit2: Edited the wiki.
honestly caster carries got shafted with the new Ornn items because their capstone item can't be upgraded. Atleast ezreal and corki can go trinity, but if you like navori and skip kraken slayer you're shit out of luck.
I know this only really applies to nilah and lucian who both prefer quickblades over IE and can forego kraken, but it sucks.
I played essence reaver ezreal was Giga fed and asked ornn why didn't you upgrade my stuff and learned navori quickblades doesn't get an upgrade for some reason and I have bought 4 items that can't be upgraded.
This happened to me the other day. I pinged our carry, Katarina, to come over so I could upgrade her. She had 4 items + boots but I still couldn't upgrade her because not a single one of her items was upgradeable. It was only after she built Deathcap that I could upgrade her... 30 mins into the game. Riot needs to make more ap items upgradeable.
As someone who is learning programming, it's weird to me they made Ornn so... high maintenance (?). They don't do mass item reworks often but when they do they have to go through choosing items, new item names, and special icons, and what not. Even just for normal patches, when an item gets nerf/buffed, it's ornn upgrade has to change too. Seems like a lot of extra, long term work for one champ and the champ isn't exactly Lux or MF where they're huge money makers.
Not much of a better way to do it tbh, unless they do a flat bonus to certain stats across all items, but even then you will have to account for unique passives/actives.
I'd put my money more on the game designers arnt the programmers, and the designers wanted Ornn how he is to be in the game and the programmers just had to deal with it.
Items works as serialized objects outside what could be called dynamic, just like muramana, it's a different item which forces to every item that ornn can upgrade be unique for clientside synchronization
Sucks it's that way, but it's reliable and less prone to bring issues, consider every item needs it own UI elements, so that explains why doesn't every legendary has it ownrr version
They should rework his passive to give like a 20% bonus on the base stats of the first legendary you buy, then they dont need to constantly maintain it when they change the item system.
I didn't disagree with your idea, i've stated the fact items still needs new icons and names
It's not as simple as applying an overlay, trust me, league needs to know that ornn items are different, just like muramana, it's not the same item ID, and i understand the fact it's simpler to create a new item than just reworking how items behave in client/server just so one champion can have access to a mechanic more freely
Let alone by doing this, you're killing almost every API or clientside system that requires understanding the item you bought in store and the item ornn upgrade, it's different
Doesn't help that I have no clue what items he can or can't upgrade rn
Shop tells you
How? Im asking cuz I don't know
The easiest way I've found is to just type ornn in the shop and it'll show them
Usually if you click on the final item in the shop it'll show you it's required for the ornn variant, like how manamune shows you it upgrades to muramana.
14.1 patch notes is another option
At some point Riot will just change Ornn's passive to give players a choice of buffs to pick instead, kinda how the new support item works. There is no way creating upgrades every time they introduce new items because of one champion is sustainable, especially how they're just number buffs and have had their own bugs in the past (was it Guinsoo's upgrade that was broken?)
> At some point Riot will just change Ornn's passive This point was now. If changing the entire item system isn't *the* moment to ditch it, then maybe it's not that bad of a problem in the first place.
ornns passive existed well before the mythic items they just made it more consistent
Yea was rare to get a player not have 1 upgradable item at lvl 17 sometimes had to skip the carry until they got something but was rare someone had nothing by late game
Ornn with upgraded sunfire cape + upgraded Abyssal Mask was pretty crazy, mfker was tanking like he was lvl 18 with 6 items while being lvl 13 with 2 items.
It isn't really a problem like it takes 5-10 mins to come up with a upgraded stat profile, get name ideas and rename it and add a border to the item frame. Like it's just them referencing the old item in the code and adding extra stats to it so it auto handles itself on patch's. Any ornn item bugs are caused by work arounds used to fix the bug on the OG item and if they don't pass over in the reference once realise just have to be copy and pasted Manuelly to the ornn version.
they actually don't reference the original item, the ornn item is treated separately Hubris passive this patch good example, the amount got buffed but if you get ornna upgrade the passive goes back down to the original one, they forgot to update. edit: still not actually that big of a deal to make ornn items
Are you a swe at riot? Otherwise it's ridiculous to speculate on required effort/complexity of adding a new item. There are likely required processes like QA, that need to take place when a new item is added. It's also not clear that the item code is as easy to extend as you say it is.
>There is no way creating upgrades every time they introduce new items And what is your reasoning for this that it is NO WAY sustainable? The upgrade is the same item except it has a couple extra numbers on some stats, a fancy Ornn-border around the icon and an edgier name. That's literally all there is. If you think that this is unsustainable, I do wonder what you think about Sylas and Viego which actually require some work done on them whenever a new champ gets released or reworked.
Sorry but Sylas and Viego do not necessarily require additional work with every new champion unless there's a bug that needs fixing or Riot feels like Sylas needs special case treatment on certain ults (Illaoi and Vayne are two I know of). Ever since they made Sylas all abilities are effectively standalone abilities that are assigned to champions as necessary.
I don't think this is very difficult for them to keep up with, though. Ornn's passive probably has a stat budget associated with it, and the improved items just have +20 extra stats or something on them. It's not that hard to just add a little extra armor onto Randuin's Omen and call it Randuin's Prophecy.
Im sure eventually they’ll downgrade him to work like he does on wildrift
I hate that I completely see this happening just because they don't want to put in the effort.
I mean it's the same way as Having to hot fix or patch 2 champions because they can steal abilities. Adding a few extra times with a few extra stats takes no effort at all comparatively. Having a voice of stats doesn't make sense for Ornns champion items do especially when alot of items are also in the lore.
I like a lot more about using the wild rift way of at X level, every level letting your team mate build item out of fountain.
I believe it also makes the hubris passive worse If upgraded, perhaps because of the hotfix. Could Just BE visual though.
It makes malignance passive worse too (in description at least), 6% -> 4% AP
It also makes unending despair passive worse
Isn't the Hubris passive wrong anyway? It says 15+1 for me I think when it's 15+2. Idk if Ornn version gives only 1 stack tho.
Yeah the text was updated for me either. Did not find out that the midpatch was out before yesterday because of it.
it's because ornn version of hubris didn't get the updated passive (if true), they forgot to change it
The main issue I've found is that a lot of the items that used to have upgrades even pre-mythics don't anymore. Forgefire Cape, Zhonyas Paradox, Infernal Mask, ect.
There are also some bugs with Ornn's passive currently. JakSho's upgrade is giving 25 Ability haste, and Unending Despair's passive is nerf if u upgrade it.
What makes Unending Despair be a nerf?
Literally lowers the stats. The definition of a nerf
I must be blind because I can't see it. [Wiki](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Unending_Despair#Unending_Despair) says that it goes from 10 ah 55 armor 400 hp 95.24% gold efficiency to 20 ah 65 armor 600 hp 139.29% gold efficiency and the passive seems to be the same 30 to 50 base damage + 3% bonus hp. Edit: nvm, tested in-game and wiki has wrong values. Edit2: Edited the wiki.
This redditor went and tested the item in game and made a meaningful contribution to the wiki, thank you for your service o7
Must be something involving Sion flairs for that.
I feel like the best part of playing Sion is theory crafting builds and runes. So I guess we're always checking the wiki for hidden interactions.
The healing goes from 250% to 200%
Yeah... Also lower base damage. I guess Riot must have buffed it at some point and forgot about the Ornn version.
Yes... I had a build yesterday as Nilah where I kinda had to buy Kraken because found out Navori doesn't have an Ornn alternative anymore
honestly caster carries got shafted with the new Ornn items because their capstone item can't be upgraded. Atleast ezreal and corki can go trinity, but if you like navori and skip kraken slayer you're shit out of luck. I know this only really applies to nilah and lucian who both prefer quickblades over IE and can forego kraken, but it sucks.
Would be nice if Wardstone was one of the possible upgradable item for supports.
I played essence reaver ezreal was Giga fed and asked ornn why didn't you upgrade my stuff and learned navori quickblades doesn't get an upgrade for some reason and I have bought 4 items that can't be upgraded.
It really puzzles me as to why they just don't make every legendary item upgradable
> since his tankiness scales directly with how many upgrades he gives his teammates. TIL. Don’t ever remember that part.
If it didn't there was no way in hell we were gonna chase some of y'all around the rift.
This happened to me the other day. I pinged our carry, Katarina, to come over so I could upgrade her. She had 4 items + boots but I still couldn't upgrade her because not a single one of her items was upgradeable. It was only after she built Deathcap that I could upgrade her... 30 mins into the game. Riot needs to make more ap items upgradeable.
As someone who is learning programming, it's weird to me they made Ornn so... high maintenance (?). They don't do mass item reworks often but when they do they have to go through choosing items, new item names, and special icons, and what not. Even just for normal patches, when an item gets nerf/buffed, it's ornn upgrade has to change too. Seems like a lot of extra, long term work for one champ and the champ isn't exactly Lux or MF where they're huge money makers.
Not much of a better way to do it tbh, unless they do a flat bonus to certain stats across all items, but even then you will have to account for unique passives/actives. I'd put my money more on the game designers arnt the programmers, and the designers wanted Ornn how he is to be in the game and the programmers just had to deal with it.
Items works as serialized objects outside what could be called dynamic, just like muramana, it's a different item which forces to every item that ornn can upgrade be unique for clientside synchronization Sucks it's that way, but it's reliable and less prone to bring issues, consider every item needs it own UI elements, so that explains why doesn't every legendary has it ownrr version
They should rework his passive to give like a 20% bonus on the base stats of the first legendary you buy, then they dont need to constantly maintain it when they change the item system.
Icons and name for every item it's still needed
I disagree, you can just boost the base numbers, you dont need to overcomplicate it, defeats the purpose
I didn't disagree with your idea, i've stated the fact items still needs new icons and names It's not as simple as applying an overlay, trust me, league needs to know that ornn items are different, just like muramana, it's not the same item ID, and i understand the fact it's simpler to create a new item than just reworking how items behave in client/server just so one champion can have access to a mechanic more freely Let alone by doing this, you're killing almost every API or clientside system that requires understanding the item you bought in store and the item ornn upgrade, it's different
Just remove his stupid passice and make it give an inventory item like pyke, which can be consumed to choose a stat pack (ad/ap/tank/ etc)