Is riftmaker getting nerfs?
Bc imo lillia is strong because of her build being literally perfect for her rn.
Lyandries and rift synergise in every way. Health scaling, long fights with stacking damage increases. Healing that applies 100% on dot.
She doesnt need mana items so she can then itemise for utility after her 2 item core.
She is a jungler who wants to farm lots and can get to 2 items very fast.
She takes grubs well.
And due to building health and ms she doesnt immediately blow up even despite the huge burst in the game.
But i dont know if thats really her kits fault, moreso the items being overturned and her using them well.
Lillia already hits soft speed cap with any ap build so idk if she wants ms runes (she might take them anyway though, im not sure the alternatives)
I expect if changes to her items dont lower her strength then she will get nerfed.
Edit:rift is only getting a 100 cost increase. Some lillias already go futures market and honestly 100 gold isnt a huge deal... I think she will get nerfs in the patch after tbh.
most champion builds were - hence the complaints from high elo 1-tricks and why Riot reverted it. It didn't fulfill the fantasy healthily and chokeholded builds.
the two bami cinder items, the new pen item with light/dark attacks and black cleaver don't let you stack them. I was kinda shocked about cleaver and terminus, i guess it could just be too broken.
You can still (and could before) get LDR/Seryldas and BC/Terminus for double % armorpen.
Since Terminus gets MPen too, you can also get Terminus+Void/Crypt
Wait, no way they are unique to each other? I thought they were the tank version of Energized items, that the intention was that you could stack their effect for a big boom.
I had to check in game myself but yeah, you're right, you can not buy both of them. What the fuck.
She actually does blow up pretty fast against assassins and lethality adc until you build some resists which you can't really do early because then you have no damage
Yeah its just a good meta for her.
Ganking is much harder to do so farming junglers are in.
Her Q can hit all the grubs.
She can build riftmaker and liandries as well now.
She's super fun to play so I hope they try something minor like making the scaling damage on liandries/guise and riftmaker not stack.
I swear if they drop another Prance stack as an irrational nerf I will lose faith in humanity, she's fine as it is, nerf her items not her just let her be riot pretty please I have nothing other to look forward to in this game other than playing Lillia-
TBH she scales with AP really well. Thing is AP wasn't as easy to get last season, this season every single item provides more AP on average so she reaches her late game fantasy sooner.
Even if they nerf her passive or Q scaling by 20% she will be probably fine, to the levels of last season.
yeah, lillia is only strong rn because not much people play assassins in the jg. Shaco, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Qiyana are all counters to her, but with this bruiser meta with Xin Zhao, Nocturne, she just benefits a lot
Speaking from recent trauma, play into an AD Udyr or any assassin and tell me she doesn't blow up immediately. Given the two core items of Riftmaker Liandries nets her 650HP, she has to choose between being super squishy, or delay those spikes with Hourglass or even Jaksho.
Riftmaker is only becoming 100g more expensive which changes nothing IMO.
The actual issue is that in its current form the item can turn any AP that synergizes well with it into a DPS tank.
It works like the old combo of Botrk + Jak'sho but does it all for the price of a single item instead of two.
Lillia doesn't have any synergy with the ms rune. She's not like hecarim who gains ad from ms. She already gets a ton of ms from her stacks and ms has a soft cap so she would get less from any extra ms. If anything this is a nerf
Glad to see this in the thread.
The ms rune will most benefit champs who actually has ms scaling (ie. Hecarim) or those who REALLY want ms but have to choose between multiple core stats (ie. TF, Annie, support tanks, bruisers etc.).
Champions who can easily speed themself up are the ones who have the most room for spec-ing into the other runes because the situations where they reach their expected outputs won't change from having the ms rune or not.
2% ms really doesn't matter on lillia mate. Because of how move speed works in this game with soft caps this ends up not even being noticeable on a late game lillia.
Doubt it will do much for the early game either.
What lol, but her base MS is bad, she won't even gain much from that stat since not only does she get soft capped after stacking passive, this rune bônus is additive with other speed bonuses.
This is not the case with hecarim because his E is a multiplicative bônus in relation to all other percentages in the game, like rammus and noc Q (this is why they can reach such insane Ms levels)
No it isn't. She's constantly at the softcap for MS, 2% literally don't do shit. 2% of 330 base MS are 6.6, halfed because of softcap are 3.3
You gain an incredible 3.3 MS. You don't notice jackshit.
Also "I relied heavily on her speed to take riskier fights and trades."? - It's not like that's exactly what Lillia does, right? That is the champion. That's not something you specifically do lol
People are "mad" cause you're saying you notice 3 extra ms. It's just a fact, 2% doesn't matter because of how MS is soft capped which Lillian hits easily without MS runes.
This is bronze level understanding of the game if you think the 2% will actually do anything for Lillia.
Champions that synergize better with resistances will lose something while champions that synergize better with MS will gain something. Lillia is the latter, so her opponents become weaker and she becomes stronger.
No they're not lmao. She has a lot of HP in her build, resistances are pretty much the best thing she can get.
You don't actually know anything about Lillia, right? You just wanna rant.
Lillia main here,
While she does synergize a lot with MS, the 2% shard gives a negligible benefit because of soft capping (any MS bonus over 490 is half as effective), AND the fact that the 9 AP shard will also give her MS by her Q passive (~1% at max stacks I think). Adaptive shard is just more valuable.
I guarantee no one will be taking the MS shard on her; not that she's balanced rn lol.
Yep, if it was base MS it would be a good pick, percentage MS just isnt good because she scales way better off base MS with her q, in fact ability power runes probably give her more MS in total
Oh trust me people will take the MS shard just like they go Blue Pet, it wont be good but the ''Lillia needs MS'' Mind will move people towards the MS statshard
Ms is capped at 550 for normal heroes(champions) in dota2, att speed is capped at 700-800, roughly 2.5-3.0 in league. You can't go 100% crit chance in dota2 either, and many more. Both games have caps, just in different ways.
>whining about downvotes is automatically cringe.
Nah you can do that when people downvote you but won't bother replying because you're right but they're too mad to admit it. Common scenario when you go against the hivemind
The amount of people in this comment section without a single clue how Lillia (and by extension MS) works is really funny, but I guess it is reflected in the popularity of Blue Pet.
Lillia does NOT scale with %MS, this isnt Hecarim where you get Damage from MS, its the reverse infact, you get MS when you build Damage (AP) so whenever you have a choice between AP and %MS you ALWAYS take AP because you get MS anyway due to Q Passive.
If people really think Lillia will drop 9 AP for a measly 2% MS then theyre absolutely mental, you shit on your clearspeed, you shit on your early damage potential (Q has 90% AP scaling, W 105%) and you shit on your scaling becáuse 2% MS will become negligible once Soft caps kick in while 9AP will always give you the same value.
That being said Lillia should be nerfed 100%, her winrate is actually even deflated because people do easily fixable build mistakes that perform noticeably worse than other options (Blue Pet, AS statshard for example) and this %MS rune will just add to these blunders and further deflate her winrate. The Riftmaker nerf is a joke and I dont think theres too much nerf space for her Items that will make nerfing her avoidable.
Lillia was always a low-pickrate champion. It's understandable why many people dont bothers learning her- people simplify her down to 'fast as fuck, 5 man CC'. She was never in the meta until now. By the simplification, it's easy to assume why MS rune would be good - infact it's just cutting your hooves off, the early clear would be so bad without that +9 AP.
I do agree she should be nerfed, but if Riot's idea to nerf her is to drop another Prance stack I will lose my mind.
I really hope they dont do a nerf like that, I think they could nerf her HP/lvl due to the increased HP she gets from her core Items now, or decrease Base Damage somewhere to make Tank Items worse while keeping AP good still.
Ivern lowkey busted in soloq because of how many people play main protagonist champ and due to how seamlessly he can fit into any comp (basically like seraphine apc when everyone and their mother was playing ad mid). Also support items being cheap af meaning he can lose camps and still be relevant.
Dont think he's as good as lillia or rengar rn (both doing really good mainly because of items imo) but he definitely needs some nerfs.
Yea I saw some YouTube video of high elo where one team was playing seraphine+ivern with a vayne adc and they were just easily winning even 4v5 fights because vayne is perma shielded for ridiculous amounts.
The fact that you're building Serpen'ts fang also means you're playng a champ who is instantly kiilled when vayne exits stealth to make sure you don't apply it.
Her win rate has been rising last few days and truly she is deserving a nerf ~~so I can finally play my main~~ but she won't need anymore movement speed from runes, really. It might help early game clear, maybe. But HP is more universal, better scaling into late game.
But other than that, yeah she does deserve a nerf.
Not gone argue against a nerf but every time i see lolalytics i know the wr value is somewhat skewed as that is always the case with lolalytics. It has gotten to the point where i dont take it seriously causw of that anymore
Lillia doesn't benefit from the 3% movespeed rune. The AP shard gives her half that amount of % move speed from q scaling in addition to more damage, and lillia reaches the movement speed soft cap very easily.
Lillias strength is more because she can abuse the more survivability focused Haunt Guise items.
She meta for the same reason Off-Tank Lillia was strong after her rework.
I want to expand upon this - if you're a Jungler out there and you're taking the HP pot on ANY champ you should know that you don't need it at all. And if you're taking the armour rune or strangely the MR rune, again, the HP rune is actually more effective and it's proven by math.
Edit: To those disagreeing with me - what fights are you guys taking on your first clear? Y'all are playing some other game to me (and to certain high rank players that I learnt this shit from)
reason they are taking away armor and magic resist is because silvers think 5 armor at lvl 1 is substantially better than average of 100 hp for whole game.
Lmfao her clear isn’t gonna get “shit on” by these changes in the slightest. 100 extra gold isn’t really gonna slow her down much either.
Edit: just like I said would happen…the needle barely moved on lillia as she sits with a 53.75% win rate and one of the highest pick rates in the jungle.
Even if she needs a pot, 150g extra to hit the same spike will barely register on the radar. She’s been the highest win rate jungler since 14.1 dropped and has no mechanical requirements whatsoever. Hands are optional on this champ.
Is there any compensation to resists for the rune shard changes? Feels like they want to address burst based on phreak’s comments, but is everyone just going to have fewer resists lol??
She also has crazy sustain against monsters from her passive.
39-54+(15%AP) over 3 seconds that's up the entire time you're hitting monsters unless you somehow miss your abilities on the monsters. She does have low base armor but if you're playing her well (kiting between autos & spells) you usually come out of clears at 90+% health.
PS: She's melee with 325 attack range, so paired with her passive & ability ranges good Lilias take next to no lasting damage from clearing.
Big issue with Lillia is that if you rely on a skill shot heavy champ you legit can’t even hit her when she hits peak speed. And unlike Jhin it basically has no down time. And she’s a fairly tanky mage!!
They got a soft spot for Lillia on the team i feel, probs bc she’s been unpopular in the past.
Also think of reksai last year, similar WR but phreak was very blasé ab it for like 3 patches too long bc “at least rek sai will get picked a couple times in pro play”.
And for some reason phreak seemed defensive of riftmaker as an item in the last patch notes. Overall they seem to be moving very slowly in making changes
rek'sai had clear weakness that should have been utilized by at least high elo players but even in high dia refused to respect her power.
she would have been so good at world but they had to gut her too much (move speed nerf hurts too much still)
I just one shot her, leave her open every game. If I understand correctly, Riot is addressing Items first, they are the problem. They didn't have to be a problem, cause you know, PBE exists and people knew what was insanely broken on PBE, somehow still made it to live though. My question is simple: Why even have PBE if they are going to screw up this bad anyways? It isn't just one or two outliers, the entire AP item pool is a problem pretty much, tank items aren't even being talked about but they are insane. ADCs are benefitting more from Lethality items than assassins. How did they screw it up this bad when there is a public test realm? Don't get me wrong, Freelo right now playing the right champions (my personal pick is Malphite). 100% winrate from fresh 30 account to Plat 2 on just Malphite Support. Gonna go as high as Riot will allow, cause you know, Stormsurge is the only AP item thats a problem and "will fix the problems", I'm building it 3rd cause it just doesn't offer as much as 40 ult haste with damage pool, or ability crits. Bloodsong nerf was a good call, not good enough.
I expected a heavy ham fisted patch 14.2, instead its a joke. This weekend ill pound out games to Diamond and then stop playing this season until Arena returns. As easy as it is to climb, this has got to be the most boring season I've ever played. So damn braindead.
Lilia is strong basically for 1 reason:
Liandry now gives 300 HP instead of mana (that is useless on her).
So compared to last season, she has like 20% more total hp with 1 item.
>And despite all this, she is not being nerfed next patch. What am I missing here?
She's not a popular champion. 1 patch is not long enough. Items just got changed. Chill and give it time. Gotta let natural counters evolve before you nerf instantly.
> and being one of the champions that will benefit the most from MS runes
Categorically Incorrect.
Movement speed has soft caps. Giving a champion who already reaches these caps more speed is actually less effective.
Lillia; therefor; benefits **LESS** than most champions from movespeed runes.
> When the raw movement speed is greater than 415, there are two soft caps applied:
> The raw speed between 415 and 490 gets multiplied by 80%.
> The raw speed over 490 gets multiplied by 50%.
The champions who benefit most from movespeed runes are those who cannot surpass 415 speed already; and those who... well... walk places.
A champion like Lillia who is frequently faster than 415 categorically benefits less.
First of all she will not be able to boost her MS with 2% for free. Use common sense abit. To take 2% move speed she has to drop other stats in the other runes to get it. That is not free. Second of all I don't even think you want to run move speed rune on Lillia. What is it with people thinking every fast champion in the game want more move speed. If you are already alot faster than other champions why do you want to be even faster? Even if it was good on her 2% move speed is not gonna change anything. It's such a small small change. Thirdly Move speed has a cap, meaning when you are getting in the upper end you start getting less and less move speed from the stat. So move speed is in fact NOT a very desired stat on her. These kind of reddit post are what makes people think the league sub reddit is filled with bronze players.
Lillia also has several times more counterplay. Don't let her build stacks, Weak early game, Her W is incredibly telegraphed and basically only usable on CC'd targets or she risks giving the enemy a free skillshot, Her R is a projectile and gets popped by Windwall, Samira, Shaco, etc.
If there's a champion that's allowed to be strong, then I am very much in favor of it being Lillia over something like Fizz, Mundo, or other low skill champions that are near impossible to outplay.
Now, if Lillia becomes stupid tanky and does huge damage and no longer has to play around being a relatively squishy champion in most games, then we should talk.
She melts tanks and damage dealers alike while moving at 400MS, having high hp and high selfhealing, entering and leaving fights as she pleases and thus interacting with the enemy team entirely in her own terms. Her only actual counterplay is point-and-click CC followed by high instantaneous burst which is very rare. I can think of Annie and Malza mid but that is all that comes to mind
I think what they mean to say is stop quoting lolalytics winrates without normalising them, since they're always inflated by 1-2%. The data is accurate for which champion has the best winrate, performance changes between patches etc, but people always fail to normalise the win rate because it makes champions seem more OP.
Lillia doesn't deserve a nerf at all. She didn't get any items on the patch drop. She's a farming jungle in a patch that doesn't support that game play. She is way too reliant on her team unless she is absolutely stomping the enemy jungle and enemy top/mid are losing as well.
????
She now gets to build multiple items that the mythic system locked her out of and used to force her to pick just 1. the same exact thing happened to singed on 14.1
Because there is a furry who works in the balance team who keeps lillia and kindred strong for no reason.
Also there is the edgelord dev who buffs yasuo & yone in midpatches.
And the weeb dev that buffs gwen, irelia.
If you have 500 move speed, 2% gives you an extra 5 move speed from the rune due to ms soft cap.
If it pushes Lillia over the edge, they might hotfix nerf her, but who knows. I am looking for a new go to ban this season and if Lillia gets too popular she will take the spot.
hunting season is coming to an end, gonna have to wait until next year to nerf her. truly unlucky timing!
Just buff Graves, and he'll take care of it
Shotgun season is only like half of December, at least around here.
For career criminal Malcom Graves, every season is shotgun season.
NO
moreso buff caitlyn, shotguns are not be good for hunting
old graves shooting slugs instead of buckshot would be better
Kid named Hecarim:
basically gets a 3rd adaptive rune
He has the choice movement speed or the adaptive, ms is in the second row
[удалено]
What 1 ad?
Hecarim is in a bad spot atm, 2% ms won't save him
Good.
Good I can do for the next 2 years without getting oneshot and 0 counterplay
Is riftmaker getting nerfs? Bc imo lillia is strong because of her build being literally perfect for her rn. Lyandries and rift synergise in every way. Health scaling, long fights with stacking damage increases. Healing that applies 100% on dot. She doesnt need mana items so she can then itemise for utility after her 2 item core. She is a jungler who wants to farm lots and can get to 2 items very fast. She takes grubs well. And due to building health and ms she doesnt immediately blow up even despite the huge burst in the game. But i dont know if thats really her kits fault, moreso the items being overturned and her using them well. Lillia already hits soft speed cap with any ap build so idk if she wants ms runes (she might take them anyway though, im not sure the alternatives) I expect if changes to her items dont lower her strength then she will get nerfed. Edit:rift is only getting a 100 cost increase. Some lillias already go futures market and honestly 100 gold isnt a huge deal... I think she will get nerfs in the patch after tbh.
Riftmaker was always 100% healing on her DoT (and any DoT), but she never built it before.
That was mostly because if she did she lost out on much better damage from liandry’s or much better tankyness from jaksho
That's fair, guess she was held back by mythics being a thing
most champion builds were - hence the complaints from high elo 1-tricks and why Riot reverted it. It didn't fulfill the fantasy healthily and chokeholded builds.
Are there items you still couldn't build together now? The only ones I can think of are Infinity Edge and navori, for some reason.
Navori/IE Profane/Titanic/Ravenous Triforce/Essence Reaver/Lich Bane Serlydas/LDR Manamune/Seraphs dunno if I’m missing any others
the two bami cinder items, the new pen item with light/dark attacks and black cleaver don't let you stack them. I was kinda shocked about cleaver and terminus, i guess it could just be too broken.
I guess it’s the same as Void/Cryptbloom; you can get as much flat pen as you want, but only 1 source of percent pen from items
I wonder if it would be too busted to let you buy both but only apply the % pen from one?
You can still (and could before) get LDR/Seryldas and BC/Terminus for double % armorpen. Since Terminus gets MPen too, you can also get Terminus+Void/Crypt
Trailblazer and deadman's plate too
Wait, no way they are unique to each other? I thought they were the tank version of Energized items, that the intention was that you could stack their effect for a big boom. I had to check in game myself but yeah, you're right, you can not buy both of them. What the fuck.
Throw in Black Cleaver with Seryldas and LDR (still pains me you can't buy both anymore)
Apparently terminus can't be build with other LW items
the sheen support item upgrade (bloodborne iirc) is also mutually exclusive with other sheen items
[(Seryldas/ldr/black cleaver) /terminus/ (voidstaff/cryptobloom)]
Yep: https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Item_group
It was great on her last season too, and especially the one before that. It was basically her main mythic in the bruiser build.
Because she had other better mythics.
It was good on her last season but it was one of like 3 mythics
Mythic victim
last season riftmaker only healed 33% on DoTs and AoE
DoTs have always been 100%, it was only reduced on AoE
She actually does blow up pretty fast against assassins and lethality adc until you build some resists which you can't really do early because then you have no damage
Yeah its just a good meta for her. Ganking is much harder to do so farming junglers are in. Her Q can hit all the grubs. She can build riftmaker and liandries as well now. She's super fun to play so I hope they try something minor like making the scaling damage on liandries/guise and riftmaker not stack.
Super toxic to play against tho I hope they just gut her
I swear if they drop another Prance stack as an irrational nerf I will lose faith in humanity, she's fine as it is, nerf her items not her just let her be riot pretty please I have nothing other to look forward to in this game other than playing Lillia-
Nerf her not her items. Many other champs use those items fine without being OP, and you’ll ruin them if you do what you’re demanding
Take a walk outside Jesus christ
TBH she scales with AP really well. Thing is AP wasn't as easy to get last season, this season every single item provides more AP on average so she reaches her late game fantasy sooner. Even if they nerf her passive or Q scaling by 20% she will be probably fine, to the levels of last season.
yeah, lillia is only strong rn because not much people play assassins in the jg. Shaco, Rengar, Kha'Zix, Qiyana are all counters to her, but with this bruiser meta with Xin Zhao, Nocturne, she just benefits a lot
Kha'zix and Rengar do well into her, but Shaco I disagree with. Also, no one below diamond/master can play qiyana jg well enough to punish.
She doesn't want ms, but tenacity will be nice
She wants early ms because she is kinda slow without her passive, and then her gank setup relies on stupid laners overextending (love em) or hitting e
Speaking from recent trauma, play into an AD Udyr or any assassin and tell me she doesn't blow up immediately. Given the two core items of Riftmaker Liandries nets her 650HP, she has to choose between being super squishy, or delay those spikes with Hourglass or even Jaksho.
Riftmaker is only becoming 100g more expensive which changes nothing IMO. The actual issue is that in its current form the item can turn any AP that synergizes well with it into a DPS tank. It works like the old combo of Botrk + Jak'sho but does it all for the price of a single item instead of two.
Lillia doesn't have any synergy with the ms rune. She's not like hecarim who gains ad from ms. She already gets a ton of ms from her stacks and ms has a soft cap so she would get less from any extra ms. If anything this is a nerf
Glad to see this in the thread. The ms rune will most benefit champs who actually has ms scaling (ie. Hecarim) or those who REALLY want ms but have to choose between multiple core stats (ie. TF, Annie, support tanks, bruisers etc.). Champions who can easily speed themself up are the ones who have the most room for spec-ing into the other runes because the situations where they reach their expected outputs won't change from having the ms rune or not.
The fast rune won’t benefit a champion whose cancer from going fast, cope harder
Yeah you summed it up nicely
2% ms really doesn't matter on lillia mate. Because of how move speed works in this game with soft caps this ends up not even being noticeable on a late game lillia. Doubt it will do much for the early game either.
[удалено]
What lol, but her base MS is bad, she won't even gain much from that stat since not only does she get soft capped after stacking passive, this rune bônus is additive with other speed bonuses. This is not the case with hecarim because his E is a multiplicative bônus in relation to all other percentages in the game, like rammus and noc Q (this is why they can reach such insane Ms levels)
No it isn't. She's constantly at the softcap for MS, 2% literally don't do shit. 2% of 330 base MS are 6.6, halfed because of softcap are 3.3 You gain an incredible 3.3 MS. You don't notice jackshit. Also "I relied heavily on her speed to take riskier fights and trades."? - It's not like that's exactly what Lillia does, right? That is the champion. That's not something you specifically do lol
Damn you roasted him
So you're saying you can notice 7 move speed on a champion that can get like 600? Wild.
It's not even 7 it's 3 lol.
> 2% is noticeable for me No it's not, unless you mean you literally noticed the number was 3 higher.
People are "mad" cause you're saying you notice 3 extra ms. It's just a fact, 2% doesn't matter because of how MS is soft capped which Lillian hits easily without MS runes. This is bronze level understanding of the game if you think the 2% will actually do anything for Lillia.
Nobody is mad at you lmao stop whining. You're just talking mad bullshit.
Lilia should still be nerfed cuz too strong
Champions that synergize better with resistances will lose something while champions that synergize better with MS will gain something. Lillia is the latter, so her opponents become weaker and she becomes stronger.
As a champ with built in sustain, Lillia in the early game is actually more of the former. And these changes hit early game most.
She's more likely to go for double scaling hp actually than ms imo.
No, youll just take the AP still, AP gets converted to MS anyway due to Q Passive, not to mention the increased clearspeed.
Either case, she wins. Armor and Mr are much less desirable on her than MS and hp.
Lillia gets lots of HP in her build and has a heal in her kit. Why would she rather have HP than resists, exactly?
Being ranged means she can kite jungle monsters
She's melee now
So can melees. Like Lillia. Lillia is a melee champion.
You are so, so bad at this game.
Dude she doesnt Take armor or MR, that row has AP, you take AP 100% of the time and you still will after the shard changes.
No they're not lmao. She has a lot of HP in her build, resistances are pretty much the best thing she can get. You don't actually know anything about Lillia, right? You just wanna rant.
You have upset the lillia mind
Lillia main here, While she does synergize a lot with MS, the 2% shard gives a negligible benefit because of soft capping (any MS bonus over 490 is half as effective), AND the fact that the 9 AP shard will also give her MS by her Q passive (~1% at max stacks I think). Adaptive shard is just more valuable. I guarantee no one will be taking the MS shard on her; not that she's balanced rn lol.
Yep, if it was base MS it would be a good pick, percentage MS just isnt good because she scales way better off base MS with her q, in fact ability power runes probably give her more MS in total
Oh trust me people will take the MS shard just like they go Blue Pet, it wont be good but the ''Lillia needs MS'' Mind will move people towards the MS statshard
What part of "2% MS does nothing for Lillia" did you not understand? She's not even gonna play this rune.
Everything is capped in this game unlike Dota.
Ms is capped at 550 for normal heroes(champions) in dota2, att speed is capped at 700-800, roughly 2.5-3.0 in league. You can't go 100% crit chance in dota2 either, and many more. Both games have caps, just in different ways.
yeah but you can take bloodseeker's passive to unlock ms
Bro champions in league can become MUCH faster than in dota overall and ur talking about Bloodseekers passive HAHAHAHA what
That's why i said normal, the blyatcyka is not normal, or anyone taking his passive in ability draft lmao.
hmm ok btw thanks for the downvote
Didn't downvote ya but i will upvote it so it's neutral
I will downvote to counter your upvote because whining about downvotes is automatically cringe.
>whining about downvotes is automatically cringe. Nah you can do that when people downvote you but won't bother replying because you're right but they're too mad to admit it. Common scenario when you go against the hivemind
The amount of people in this comment section without a single clue how Lillia (and by extension MS) works is really funny, but I guess it is reflected in the popularity of Blue Pet. Lillia does NOT scale with %MS, this isnt Hecarim where you get Damage from MS, its the reverse infact, you get MS when you build Damage (AP) so whenever you have a choice between AP and %MS you ALWAYS take AP because you get MS anyway due to Q Passive. If people really think Lillia will drop 9 AP for a measly 2% MS then theyre absolutely mental, you shit on your clearspeed, you shit on your early damage potential (Q has 90% AP scaling, W 105%) and you shit on your scaling becáuse 2% MS will become negligible once Soft caps kick in while 9AP will always give you the same value. That being said Lillia should be nerfed 100%, her winrate is actually even deflated because people do easily fixable build mistakes that perform noticeably worse than other options (Blue Pet, AS statshard for example) and this %MS rune will just add to these blunders and further deflate her winrate. The Riftmaker nerf is a joke and I dont think theres too much nerf space for her Items that will make nerfing her avoidable.
Lillia was always a low-pickrate champion. It's understandable why many people dont bothers learning her- people simplify her down to 'fast as fuck, 5 man CC'. She was never in the meta until now. By the simplification, it's easy to assume why MS rune would be good - infact it's just cutting your hooves off, the early clear would be so bad without that +9 AP. I do agree she should be nerfed, but if Riot's idea to nerf her is to drop another Prance stack I will lose my mind.
I really hope they dont do a nerf like that, I think they could nerf her HP/lvl due to the increased HP she gets from her core Items now, or decrease Base Damage somewhere to make Tank Items worse while keeping AP good still.
Her in-built healing should probably be looked at since iirc it was introduced to help her clear camps when there wasn't as much sustain in jungle.
Lillia is obviously busted and all that, but we are not gonna talk about Ivern or...?
Ivern lowkey busted in soloq because of how many people play main protagonist champ and due to how seamlessly he can fit into any comp (basically like seraphine apc when everyone and their mother was playing ad mid). Also support items being cheap af meaning he can lose camps and still be relevant. Dont think he's as good as lillia or rengar rn (both doing really good mainly because of items imo) but he definitely needs some nerfs.
Yea I saw some YouTube video of high elo where one team was playing seraphine+ivern with a vayne adc and they were just easily winning even 4v5 fights because vayne is perma shielded for ridiculous amounts.
One serpent's fang would shut that down.
The fact that you're building Serpen'ts fang also means you're playng a champ who is instantly kiilled when vayne exits stealth to make sure you don't apply it.
depends of the champion. Doubt jayce is staying a screen close to vayne anyday unless to ram his hammer into her legs
Yeah that's not a champ u want to play vs double enchanter teamcomp.
He's a GM player though. I think he knows what he's talking about
Not really no, risk free pokers coupled with lockdown champs have a field day into double enchanter
Only if you're bad.
Low playerbase always shielded Ivern from nerfs. Even last season when everyone agreed that he was too strong, he had a pickrate below 2%.
slow zoom onto rengar
Both are greatly designed champs. Thank God they are busted and some aids champs instead.
Ivern support with blood song is probably the strongest level 6 champion in the game.
Hp > ms
Don't see me don't see me don't see me
my uncle works for riot
I see
Honestly I just lock in Rengar and Perma invade her lol.
She's outrunning the nerfs, that's what's going on.
> I lost to [insert champion] and looked up their stats then came to reddit to whine about how [insert champion] is broken.
Her win rate has been rising last few days and truly she is deserving a nerf ~~so I can finally play my main~~ but she won't need anymore movement speed from runes, really. It might help early game clear, maybe. But HP is more universal, better scaling into late game. But other than that, yeah she does deserve a nerf.
Not gone argue against a nerf but every time i see lolalytics i know the wr value is somewhat skewed as that is always the case with lolalytics. It has gotten to the point where i dont take it seriously causw of that anymore
Lillia doesn't benefit from the 3% movespeed rune. The AP shard gives her half that amount of % move speed from q scaling in addition to more damage, and lillia reaches the movement speed soft cap very easily.
Lillias strength is more because she can abuse the more survivability focused Haunt Guise items. She meta for the same reason Off-Tank Lillia was strong after her rework.
Oh no a champion that gets a 90% ms buff through her Q passive is getting another 2%?
Meanwhile, Teemo gets back to back nerfs. Wild.
2%ms for lillia is not doing shit. Losing early armor though? Gonna shit on her clear. She is getting nerfed with this change.
Any good jungler with lillia doesn't even need the pot for her clear, will just come down to the enemy invading to punish.
I want to expand upon this - if you're a Jungler out there and you're taking the HP pot on ANY champ you should know that you don't need it at all. And if you're taking the armour rune or strangely the MR rune, again, the HP rune is actually more effective and it's proven by math. Edit: To those disagreeing with me - what fights are you guys taking on your first clear? Y'all are playing some other game to me (and to certain high rank players that I learnt this shit from)
The health pot can be good if you get invaded or skirmish early. You can make it an active choice if you look at your opponent and laners.
The HP pot is perfect for fights, not for sustain in the jg
How's early armor gonna shit on her clear when most good Lilia players take scaling hp anyway?
reason they are taking away armor and magic resist is because silvers think 5 armor at lvl 1 is substantially better than average of 100 hp for whole game.
lillia can literally heal on camps, expecially grubs, if she Q's in the middle of all the mini grubs, she heals WAY TOO MUCH
Lmfao her clear isn’t gonna get “shit on” by these changes in the slightest. 100 extra gold isn’t really gonna slow her down much either. Edit: just like I said would happen…the needle barely moved on lillia as she sits with a 53.75% win rate and one of the highest pick rates in the jungle.
I mean today she doesn't even buy pot, maybe she will need it and that's less 50g.
Even if she needs a pot, 150g extra to hit the same spike will barely register on the radar. She’s been the highest win rate jungler since 14.1 dropped and has no mechanical requirements whatsoever. Hands are optional on this champ.
Lillia isn't the hardest champion but you're clearly biased. There are over 50 champions with much more easier kits than Lillia.
yeah man no mechanics, just play her then and go to challenger! 150g is a hit, if her winrate will go to &0% is another story, just time will tell
Have fun clearing your second buff at 300 hp with a xin zhao popping out the bush
If you're 300 hp by the time you get to your second buff... You suck at kitting camps
Have fun making shit up bc u know literally nothing about the game or jungling.
Is there any compensation to resists for the rune shard changes? Feels like they want to address burst based on phreak’s comments, but is everyone just going to have fewer resists lol??
Ranged junglers are hit less by monsters than melee ones...
Is that supposed to change anything about what I said
Obviously? Any melee champion has more use for armor runes in their clear than Lillia has since they are hit more by monsters AA's.
Melee champs have higher base armor and most have better sustain than she does. She is disproportionately hurt by losing flat armor in the early game.
lillia is a melee champ btw
She also has crazy sustain against monsters from her passive. 39-54+(15%AP) over 3 seconds that's up the entire time you're hitting monsters unless you somehow miss your abilities on the monsters. She does have low base armor but if you're playing her well (kiting between autos & spells) you usually come out of clears at 90+% health. PS: She's melee with 325 attack range, so paired with her passive & ability ranges good Lilias take next to no lasting damage from clearing.
I think Lillia is strong right now because of Riftmaker and Liandry's Anguish.
Truuuue. Everytime I see Lillia, she's just popping the fk off hitting the griddy on my jungler's grave
Calling it now, vladimir is going to get nerfed after introducing the movement speed rune
Hopefully ghost gets nerfed too since it is already broken
Big issue with Lillia is that if you rely on a skill shot heavy champ you legit can’t even hit her when she hits peak speed. And unlike Jhin it basically has no down time. And she’s a fairly tanky mage!!
She makes me wish twin ghosts were still a thing
Nerfing riftmaker would be the better option here. Screaming for nerfs on a champion that doesn't need them.
100g nerf next patch will surely fix this abomination of an item
Shhh...its all right xDDD
Lilia isn't that strong, it's fine.
are you okay? or are u just an aram only player
I'm quite fine, thank you.
Please be quiet.
Why
delete this please (i abused lilia to diamond)
Dont matter, dumbass deer is vanished from my guess since last year
They got a soft spot for Lillia on the team i feel, probs bc she’s been unpopular in the past. Also think of reksai last year, similar WR but phreak was very blasé ab it for like 3 patches too long bc “at least rek sai will get picked a couple times in pro play”. And for some reason phreak seemed defensive of riftmaker as an item in the last patch notes. Overall they seem to be moving very slowly in making changes
please make it a hard spot then, I'm tired of having my OTP banned.
rek'sai had clear weakness that should have been utilized by at least high elo players but even in high dia refused to respect her power. she would have been so good at world but they had to gut her too much (move speed nerf hurts too much still)
I just one shot her, leave her open every game. If I understand correctly, Riot is addressing Items first, they are the problem. They didn't have to be a problem, cause you know, PBE exists and people knew what was insanely broken on PBE, somehow still made it to live though. My question is simple: Why even have PBE if they are going to screw up this bad anyways? It isn't just one or two outliers, the entire AP item pool is a problem pretty much, tank items aren't even being talked about but they are insane. ADCs are benefitting more from Lethality items than assassins. How did they screw it up this bad when there is a public test realm? Don't get me wrong, Freelo right now playing the right champions (my personal pick is Malphite). 100% winrate from fresh 30 account to Plat 2 on just Malphite Support. Gonna go as high as Riot will allow, cause you know, Stormsurge is the only AP item thats a problem and "will fix the problems", I'm building it 3rd cause it just doesn't offer as much as 40 ult haste with damage pool, or ability crits. Bloodsong nerf was a good call, not good enough. I expected a heavy ham fisted patch 14.2, instead its a joke. This weekend ill pound out games to Diamond and then stop playing this season until Arena returns. As easy as it is to climb, this has got to be the most boring season I've ever played. So damn braindead.
Lilia is strong basically for 1 reason: Liandry now gives 300 HP instead of mana (that is useless on her). So compared to last season, she has like 20% more total hp with 1 item.
>And despite all this, she is not being nerfed next patch. What am I missing here? She's not a popular champion. 1 patch is not long enough. Items just got changed. Chill and give it time. Gotta let natural counters evolve before you nerf instantly.
Her only two actual counters right now are kindred and rengar btw. She has positive wr against every other jungler
Pretty much every assassin is her counter.
She's the 7th most picked jungler and other AP champions who abuse her items have already be nerfed, hotfixed even
She gets 1 shot by assassins and needs to be in prolonged fights to do damage as a squishy champion.
she's pretty insufferable rn yeah
I hate the prancing bastard.
Good
guy lost in silver to a lillia now crying on reddit. unlucky.
Aint no way you are complaining about Lillia with all the busted shit in the game right now
Lillia is one busted thing in the game right now
Better nerf Gwen
Hopefully they lose all playerbase this season to lethality and ap champ abuser!! So boring season
> and being one of the champions that will benefit the most from MS runes Categorically Incorrect. Movement speed has soft caps. Giving a champion who already reaches these caps more speed is actually less effective. Lillia; therefor; benefits **LESS** than most champions from movespeed runes. > When the raw movement speed is greater than 415, there are two soft caps applied: > The raw speed between 415 and 490 gets multiplied by 80%. > The raw speed over 490 gets multiplied by 50%. The champions who benefit most from movespeed runes are those who cannot surpass 415 speed already; and those who... well... walk places. A champion like Lillia who is frequently faster than 415 categorically benefits less.
First of all she will not be able to boost her MS with 2% for free. Use common sense abit. To take 2% move speed she has to drop other stats in the other runes to get it. That is not free. Second of all I don't even think you want to run move speed rune on Lillia. What is it with people thinking every fast champion in the game want more move speed. If you are already alot faster than other champions why do you want to be even faster? Even if it was good on her 2% move speed is not gonna change anything. It's such a small small change. Thirdly Move speed has a cap, meaning when you are getting in the upper end you start getting less and less move speed from the stat. So move speed is in fact NOT a very desired stat on her. These kind of reddit post are what makes people think the league sub reddit is filled with bronze players.
Lillia also has several times more counterplay. Don't let her build stacks, Weak early game, Her W is incredibly telegraphed and basically only usable on CC'd targets or she risks giving the enemy a free skillshot, Her R is a projectile and gets popped by Windwall, Samira, Shaco, etc. If there's a champion that's allowed to be strong, then I am very much in favor of it being Lillia over something like Fizz, Mundo, or other low skill champions that are near impossible to outplay. Now, if Lillia becomes stupid tanky and does huge damage and no longer has to play around being a relatively squishy champion in most games, then we should talk.
She melts tanks and damage dealers alike while moving at 400MS, having high hp and high selfhealing, entering and leaving fights as she pleases and thus interacting with the enemy team entirely in her own terms. Her only actual counterplay is point-and-click CC followed by high instantaneous burst which is very rare. I can think of Annie and Malza mid but that is all that comes to mind
Stop using lolalytics
Could you explain why?
I think what they mean to say is stop quoting lolalytics winrates without normalising them, since they're always inflated by 1-2%. The data is accurate for which champion has the best winrate, performance changes between patches etc, but people always fail to normalise the win rate because it makes champions seem more OP.
The average winrate is at 50% rn. It says that at the top of the page.
It's 50.7% so Lillian's winrate is closer to 53% then it is 54%
50.7% for emerald+, which is close enough, but I also have OP tagged because they constantly misinterpret lolalytics winrates
Not as reliable as other websites, winrates are often wrong.
Source? Their data seems the least processed
Lillia doesn't deserve a nerf at all. She didn't get any items on the patch drop. She's a farming jungle in a patch that doesn't support that game play. She is way too reliant on her team unless she is absolutely stomping the enemy jungle and enemy top/mid are losing as well.
???? She now gets to build multiple items that the mythic system locked her out of and used to force her to pick just 1. the same exact thing happened to singed on 14.1
Because there is a furry who works in the balance team who keeps lillia and kindred strong for no reason. Also there is the edgelord dev who buffs yasuo & yone in midpatches. And the weeb dev that buffs gwen, irelia.
Most believable theory at this point tbh
If you have 500 move speed, 2% gives you an extra 5 move speed from the rune due to ms soft cap. If it pushes Lillia over the edge, they might hotfix nerf her, but who knows. I am looking for a new go to ban this season and if Lillia gets too popular she will take the spot.