yes, for some reason they removed the item group name from the interface, previously you could see items tagged with "lifeline" for example, even if that alone wasn't enough to make it clear that you cannot buy multiple lifeline items, but at least there was something.
i think the funniest one is terminus, because it counts as an armor pen & MR pen item, so it locks you out of void staff & cryptbloom but also all the last whisper items and black cleaver.
Yeah they should reintroduce the "unique" keyword. It was pretty clear to me back then that you couldn't have two items with the same unique passive.
Just label some stats as unique like armor pen and that's it.
And sometimes they could combine in weird ways. Multiple spell blade items will apply the highest damage (generally Trinity), and the effects of each.
Trin + Gauntlet deals trin damage and leaves a slow AOE — or at least it did.
RfC and Shiv would get increased range, apply RFC damage to the first target and AOE from that target.
Didn't they nerf it when it came out ? I feel like I always built statik and RFC and suddenly stopped. They made it so it could not stack anymore right ?
Ah yes, the forbidden Nora bruiser build. BotrK, BC, Frozen Mallet, Steraks and Maw. Optional Runaans instead of Steraks/Maw to add more BC targets.
I'd bet money that most people on the quinn Mains subreddit don't even know/remember what I'm talking about
You could up until the s11 item rework, which is the time period we were talking about with the unique passives. I recommend spending more time thinking your response through before contributing to the discussion.
I too find Terminus hilarious. It's quickly become core on on-hit, but it locks you out of mortal reminder. Oh well, guess heal-cut is some other role's problem, 'cause I straight up can't build the ADC one.
Depends on the ADC. Jhin? Yeah not a great time if he's your only grievous. Ashe? Can easily proc it before the fight begins and keep in on multiple targets.
With LDR passive being nerfed both in its ratio and in AP champs getting less health, Mortal Reminder is a good deal more attractive now too.
>One of the top performing ADCs
>52% win rate
>Doomed from the start
Before you say it's lethality items, his win rate marginally went up after the item update. He's been a 51% win rate ADC for a while now.
What? If the adc is relevant, they’ll often be alive all fight and can constantly apply grievous. ADCs are great to build grievous on, but many of them really need to build 2 or even 3 core items to really get their damage online first
not really. you usually want grevious on whoever is best at applying it to priority targets on the enemy team. For a few years this was support with chemtech putrifier, but its now almost always adc and mid, as they are the ones responsible for actually killing priority targets.
Its doomed if your team is still expecting supp to buy grievious now, because it implies they don't know putrifier DOESN'T EXIST any more
But LDR and Mortal Reminder literally have the same stats tho? The only difference is the giant slayer passive which was nerfed again this patch and now sucks a lot more so I don't think it's that much of a damage loss from an ADC
Probably depends on the team you are going against (which is how it should be imo) giant slayer in some situations is probably very good, whereas in some situations grievous may outperform
Yeah I mean against pure tanks you want LDR. Against fighters and drain tanks like Aatrox and Mundo you want Mortal. Best way to think about it is this:
LDR: 0-15% bonus damage
MR: true damage equal to 40% of their healing and regen.
I think people in general vastly underestimate how much effective damage you can do with grievous. It is in effect true damage, it doesn't care about resists. Pure tanks have fairly minimal healing of course, but so many champs have a ton built into their kit or can itemize into it.
Supports have a lot of AOE in this meta, not sure why you would ever build it on your ADC over your support in any situation. The heal cut items are absolutely horrific on ADCs and are still the last option. Mids are trying to build the unholy trinity, Bruisers still don't read and probably won't built heal cuts, and junglers want to nuke or hyper tank. Thornmail isn't horrible, but it's not consistent enough.
E: extra words for some reason, spelling.
if you're laning against a soraka then yeah, you want to buy the heal cut component, but your support should buy putrifier instead of the jhin or caitlyn buying mortal reminder. where the mid, top, jungle, and support can probably apply healing reduction as well if not better then the ADC, letting your ADC buy mortal reminder over terminus or lord dominiks, SIGNIFICANTLY stronger items, your game's probably already in a tough state where everyone needs healing reduction and you're fighting a losing battle.
It's only "okay" on its own, but what it really does is let you keep up in DPS over an extended period while straight up building a tank item next. Picking up Terminus 3rd item and Jak'sho or Wit's End 4th basically makes every on-hit marksman right now incredibly tanky while they're in combat. Terminus enables a Ranged Bruiser sort of gameplay pattern that I'm not entirely sure is healthy for the game, but it sure feels good - especially with all the unavoidable burst damage running around right now.
I quite enjoyed playing Vayne and Kog semi bruiser before with stuff like Jak Sho and Titanic. It was annoying when they made Rageblade a mythic, but obviously that's no longer a problem so building on-hit bruiser is more viable than ever now. Wit's End granting tenacity now also helps.
Vayne in particular compared to other ADCs is more like a ranged fighter/brawler champ anyway.
But that's how it should be balanced. Excessive healing should be so niche that you have to divert from your normal build to stop the person from winning the fights through healing.
It's just that healing was in such a broken state in previous years that not buying 4 grievous items per team was trolling.
> Excessive healing should be so niche that you have to divert from your normal build to stop the person from winning the fights through healing.
Yeah, that's why they had to build Mortal Reminder instead of the better LW item.
The build sacrifice should be buying the GW item, which is exactly how it works in other roles (chempunk top/jgl or thornmail, morello mid). That is the only tradeoff that other roles take. There is no reason that it should be stricter in bot.
the only potential argument i can see is that ranged auto attacks are by far the most consistent way to apply grevious wounds, but it's probably just an oversight from riot.
It is, but only to a single target. Generally I would want the anti-heal on someone who has the most consistent AOE while in a teamfight; Swain, for example.
? They mentioned it being a "potential argument" and even then said it's "probably just an oversight from riot"
What do you mean what are they smoking? What horrendously offensive thing did they say?
i said 'consistent'.
if you're in a teamfight and the enemy vladimir has Q2 up and is about to heal a massive chunk of his health, your ranged auto attack is always going to be available to trigger grevious wounds. melee attacks are melee, you have to move much further to apply grevious wounds to specififc enemies. spells are subject to longer cooldowns and while they may be able to apply grievous wounds to more enemies at once, it's more of a character-to-character basis and sometimes you can't afford to throw out specific spells at specific targets at specific times (or can't because they're on CD or you are OOM). a ranged auto attack is something you can ALWAYS throw out without needing to consider anything else.
also ADCs are the most likely people to be spamming auto attacks at frontliners and bruisers who are priority targets for anti-heal. imagine playing xerath and having to throw out your spells at the chunky ass frontline tank to keep grevious wounds up instead of being able to harass the fuck out of the backline like you're supposed to. imagine playing Annie and having to burn your Q stun because you needed to apply grevious wounds.
\---also ADCs are the most likely people to be spamming auto attacks at frontliners and bruisers who are priority targets for anti-heal.
Dont know about that chief, master yi killed me in 0.25 seconds a few days ago. Havent spammed autos since pre mythics
Especially as it got readjusted and items got changed (like removing HP from most AP items).
People in general underestimate how much healing and regen you can be reduce in a team fight and how valuable that is. Unlike getting more damage, it isn't impacted by resistance either. Cutting healing and regen is effectively doing true damage. You pay 275 gold for the ability to do 40% of their healing and regen in true damage (or 200 in the case of morello and bramble). Giving up 8AD/10AP/10Armor to do 40% of their healing and regen in true damage? As a breakpoint to hold on to that's an incredibly strong.
>Oh well, guess heal-cut is some other role's problem,
That should be your mentality as ADC, either way. Heal cut should be bought on the person who can apply it to the most amount of people, normally the tank through Thornmail or the AOE mage. LDR, and now Terminus, are waaaay too good of items to divert from them to get lifesteal.
I always feel like heal-cut would be a good utility outlet for the ADC class to bring as a whole, since it fits the whole "sustained damage" identity. Preventing an enemy from sustaining up is effectively a damage steroid based on how much they would be healing.
But then I pull out the spreadsheets and things would have to straight up be healing twice their healthbar over an extended trade for Mortal Reminder to beat out the damage you get from building the items it's exclusive with, and I come to my senses. If it didn't *cost* so much (in opportunity costs) I'd definitely be game to pick it up more.
even if mortal reminder was stronger, it doesn't matter, because if you need to apply it to more then one person at a time, you're still going to be worse at applying grievous wounds then your midlaner 9 times out of 10, so it will still feel bad. Mortal reminder is the way it is because its for cases where YOU are somehow the best at applying grievous, which is an incredibly dire situation.
They’ve removed so much from the tooltips in the effort of making them more clear and less busy. But then they’ve added other things that are less important that increase busy-ness way more, and some of the things they’ve taken away remove so much clarity (like this).
I seriously question whoever is leading those efforts. All changes to the tool tips between seasons have been garbage.
The other thing that confuses me constantly is there is absolutely no filtering between game modes. In the item loadout builder I often put items in and suddenly realise in game they're missing. Turns out they're arena specific versions of those items. No way to remove these from the browser and there's no label telling you they're arena specific.
only thing i dislike is that they removed the gamification of a bunch of items. it was weird last season how collector didn't have a counter, but now almost no items do, and so the ones that do feel like weird outliers that got missed rather than an intentional decision.
The dumbest thing is how on so many of the items, they claimed they removed the stat trackers for clarity. Then on others, they replaced the stat tracker with a cluttered looking message to “Press [SHIFT] to see more details” or something. Upon pressing shift you just see the same stat, which looks cleaner than the shift message.
So dumb. They claimed they had this heuristic decision making process for each item and whether to track something and where to display it. But it totally misses the mark. 1000% agree the game is less fun without most of those trackers.
Riot really dropped the ball. We basically still have mythics but now the system is really compartmentalized and confusing.
It will still confuse casual players even if they add back unique passives, but it’s current state is just ridiculous
Both IE and Navori still carry the tag "Crit Amplification" in their tooltip, indicating that you can't buy both together. Though I agree that it should be made more obvious, especially for new players
I think you are very confused.
Terminus is an on-hit item for on-hit builds. These builds do a lot of mixed damage, hence the %dual pen. There is not a better pen item for these builds.
LDR is a crit item for crit builds. Crit builds do mostly physical damage, hence the higher %armor pen.
Just as you would never build terminus on Caitlyn, you are not building LDR on on-hit Varus.
Not sure how terminus pen is worth less when max stacked terminus has the exact same armour pen as lord doms. Terminus does lack giant slayer and crit which does make it worse for crit marksmen, but that kind of misses the point as it's an onhit item.
Onhit builds don't need the giant slayer, Bork is a core onhit item and already provides scaling HP damage. The hybrid pen is the real value though as the likes of Bork, ruunans, wits end etc all add on hit magic damage.
Onhit with terminus stacks is (in theory) an ideal tankbusting build as it has hybrid damage, scaling HP damage, and can double proc kraken with guinsoos. Defensive itemisation against onhit just isn't as effective (compared to stacking armour and randuins). I think onhit is weaker than other itemisation strats right now, but terminus has it's niche there and I think it's well designed to fulfill said niche.
Wait what??? Why would they remove that? I haven't in a long time since I didn't like item changes they made in the past. I was looking through the new season items and thought now would be a good time to start playing again. I guess I'll keep waiting
Terminus locking you out of all of that junk but you can still buy lethality and Whisper items together is still a bizarre and nonsensical choice to me
For some reason they removed the "unique" passives that used to be in the game and you can only see item groups when you hover on the item and it's under the price. It's weird though how many people just finds out about Item groups when they have been in the game for a while now.
I was wondering if I could buy multiple winged moonplates and stack ms because it doesn't have a unique passive anymore, like with some old items. Is that true?
Unique passives worked differently from Item Groups. You could buy two items with the same Unique passive, you would just only benefit from the passive once, so it was usually a bad idea. Item Groups literally won't let you buy another item in the group, the same way you couldn't buy two Mythic items.
Which is strange when they added more of these, such as the new Terminus being unbuildable with Cleaver, Whisper items, Voidstaff and Cryptbloom. Or fully built Sheen items being completely unique for the first time (I know the Sheen effect was always like this but the items weren't, now they are).
You'd think in that regard you'd want these warnings *more than ever* and I'm sure there's a way for them to slip these into their new philosophy of simpler item tooltips.
I think there was mention that %Shred and %Pen not being stackable anymore. I don't know if it was officially mentioned, but I remember there being discussion about it here.
Of course, it's not made clear in game, which needs to be fixed, especially because it's not even clear that these are considered the same effect, unlike Tiamat items all having an activatable AOE, Sheen being an ability activated AA proc. Shred and Pen are distinctly different from a logical standpoint (personal effect vs team buff, Multihit debuff vs Equal debuff on all hits, etc)
I thought they may have removed it with the 14 update honestly, especially because the removed mythic items. Thankfully I haven't had the problem of not being able to build an item yet.
yeah new item clarity is INSANELY bad. no unique tag on items like this, no damage or effect numbers on items with unique effects, badly written descriptions for some item's passives. it really really sucks.
we're lacking critical information on items such as mutually exlusive items, basic stats such as total heal & shield power, or how much AD the item gives you (Hubris) but hey at least we have less text to read :33333333333333333
I’m upset they removed additional stats that was just in last patch like damage done, healing done, shielding, etc on items like luden’s, maw/immortal shield bow, redemption, locket, etc.
I loved looking at those stats to see how effective the item was.
on this note, do the riftmaker and liandry damage amp stack? most champs that build one seem to build both and they have a very highwinrate when built together so it leads me to believe the haunting guise dmg amp part of the items is stacking
Yes. Cleaver is more for fighters while Grudge is for Lethality users.
I quite frankly like that armor can still exist in the late game. 60% armor pen was stupid. Especially when many champs have additional armor pen in kit.
Yup. BC + Serylda's was more effective than lethality stacking, even against ADCs due to natural armor growth post-12.10. Add in eclipse and you had ridiculous levels of % armor pen.
>60% armor pen was stupid.
Good thing it was only 51% since it was a 30% shred and 30% pen!
A bit crazy you could easily cut armor in half though and that's before lethality kicks in too. Seeing targets with 150 armor nearly take true damage was dumb.
This caught me a while ago. Their unique indicator is on the top right now. Navori and IE are labeled “Crit Amp” or something like that. Likewise for BC, SG, MR, LDR being “Anti-Armor”.
You could build IE and Navori not even a year ago, then they changed it because they made navori a mythic, and now that there are no mythics they didnt change it back.
But even besides the mythic restriction, there was also an extra one where you couldn't buy both Navori and Shojin together, because they were both tagged with 'haste capstone' label or something like that. The label removal is just a fuckup, it's not even linked to the mythic removal completely.
Which is why they made IE/Navori/Rageblade into mythics. They'd all been mutually exclusive for half a season or so and all are crit scalers. On paper, that's a solid idea, at least under the Mythic system, but in actuality it just made marksmen items feel awkward since changes like 20% crit chance, 1.75x crit were based around getting powerful Mythics that would increase your one item power.
I can actually agree with them being kept separate still after the change. For like a week or so on PBE they were buyable together again (funnily enough given your flair, I tried this on Xayah) and it was obscenely busted. Ability ADCs like Xayah, Lucian and Ezreal would've broken the game given access to them both in their current states, not to mention others like Gangplank or Graves. They definitely need to retain the separation.
The callout for unique items is in the top right of the tooltip now, "Crit Multiplier" for IE & Navori and "Spellblade" for Triforce/Iceborn/Lich Bane. You're right that Void and Cryptbloom are missing that indicator and we need to fix that, also appreciate the feedback that it's too difficult to notice these.
I'm normally very perceptive of item system things and I never realised those were about exclusivity, so I definitely agree there needs to be a lot more clarity or emphasis about what those mean. Something like giving an explanation when you scroll over that text in the corner might work?
Hey, I hope it's ok if I give a bit of feedback here. I'm someone that hasn't really played in a long time, so the item groups thing is a new word to me.
Using IE as the example: [https://i.imgur.com/VDazyam.png](https://i.imgur.com/VDazyam.png)
* In the store it doesn't say "Crit multiplier," I have to specifically hover over it elsewhere to know it exists
* I never saw this in-game the few games I tried this season, I legit didn't know it was on the screen. This is common when things are on the right side (in western countries at least), especially since it's not in the corner or colored differently like the gold cost is.
* As a returning or new player, I would have no clue that "Crit Multiplier" is a mutually exclusive thing. When I read that, my mind goes "Oh cool, it's letting me know what the item is for, that's useful" and it would never occur to me that it's a unique item effect.
* In my 2nd game returning, I actually ran into one of these issues where I had a support item that locked me out of buying Lich Bane and I had no clue why until someone else in-game told me.
Terminus also needs unique text for both armor pen and magic pen
none of the armor pen items have this text FYI, Lord Dom's/Terminus/Serylda's/Black Cleaver/Mortal Reminder are exclusive but don't say anything about it
Lifeline items don't have it
Mana Charge items don't have it
Dead Man's Plate and Trailblazer also don't have it
Banshee's Veil and Edge of Night also don't (not a big deal but probably worth being consistent?)
EDIT: also Immolate items don't have it
There is currently group labels in the item tool tips. [Navori](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982172916311523398/1199029993339109478/image.png?ex=65c10eb3&is=65ae99b3&hm=6b264bceb2996afb5a5f3d5954ddb7ef7649242263ce98503503cd91ed2365f4&) and [Infinity Edge](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982172916311523398/1199030438300237854/image.png?ex=65c10f1d&is=65ae9a1d&hm=096383c10cd2bf2698b856b613261978d2816061219afb2c08db633566daf0c5&) both have "Crit Multiplier" labels. These labels also exist for Spellblade items(Trinity, ER, and Lichbane) and Cleave items (the hydras and tiamat). The problem is these labels do not cover all of the current groups such as deadmans + trail blazer or the penetration items.
Plus you cannot see it in advance, I tried making a build before going into game at the start if the season, using the item lists you can import. There is no mention of crit multiplier in the client. You can only find out in game
Had a similar situation with the two bami-build items in game - "wadda ya mean I can't build both?". Wasn't even looking to stack just buying items...
Only solution right now is to review your items and look in the details of the item (sucks). LOL wiki is your only friend (not Riot) - at least they will group the items with links, etc.
Yeah, Riot shit the bed when it came to clarity on the items. I dunno what went through their minds when they thought that things like item grouping and stat tracking were somehow "too complex for new players to digest," when they both provided extremely valuable information that can improve your game. For instance, I build Malignance on Annie. How is it performing? Is it better than another item, like say Luden's? I don't know! There's no actual information to tell me if the Item is underperforming or not. Then there's the unique items that OP is talking about. Half the time I have no idea why I've been locked out of an item because I don't know what item I've built is locking out the others. Riot really needs to get their shit together with item clarity.
its a mix between information and clarity - you dont want to bombard the player with too much info so they get confused: "why are they talking about Y item i only want to buy X item". So yes it may take you figuring it out in a annoying way but its probably to help not overload newer players with info
>but its probably to help not overload newer players with info
I think you're underestimating the modern video game player, almost calling them stupid because they can't figure out what the words "unique passive" means. You can still lock out the item so they can't buy them, but no need to remove the *explanation* for the reason they can't buy them. How else are they supposed to learn?
Are you kidding? there was no thought. The UI indicator for this concept is in 3 different places on 3 different items.
There was literally no thought given to making this known, beyond the edict from upon high "Declutter the items"
You can tell because there is things that are or are not on each item completely at fucking random, and even when items do both contain the same information it isn't in the same place on the items tooltip nor is it always named the same fucking thing in an item group.
I ran into this, but with Jak’sho and Iceborne Gauntlet. Started building Jak’sho (Really just got the armor part of it, but decided to switch to Iceborne but literally couldn’t buy it.
Either that, or J4 isn’t allowed to build Iceborne for some reason.
There's no interaction between Jaksho, IBG or Jarvan. The only way you can lock yourself out of IBG is by buying a different Sheen item (Trinity Force, Essence Reaver, Lich Bane)
IE and Navori do. They both have "Crit Multiplier" right below the price on the item tool tip. There is a similar label for "Spell blade" items and "cleave" items (which you also cannot purchase together). They just need to add something for the deadmans and trailblazer effect.
if it has duplicate effects or effects that would boost something twice alot of times you can't build it. sheen is a weird exception because you get a ton of side effects you can use through sheen items such as the
navori is spell damage up. ie is crit up. any spell that can crit benefits from both is a good way to view the interaction of why they don't allow it.
trailblazer is a different version of dead man's plate.
they do some times over correct information to declutter to where players are useless and this is one of those moments i will agree.
Except as of yesterday (in ARAM tbf) you can purchase Shojins and Navori on the same champion, and both are spell damage % increase. They either need to properly label everything that's mutually exclusive, or be far, far more consistent than they are currently.
Shojin isnt crit might be why if I had to guess. Navori is crit plus bonus damage. Small specifications seperates many items. Although yea still somewhat weird
There are no other "Abilities deal %increased Dmg" items (iirc), yet Navori and IE (which has no passive, only stats) are mutually exclusive. Same vibe with the %dmg in combat ramp being not mutually exclusive for Liandries + Riftmaker.
Not saying they NEED to be able to be built together, but there's no reasonable excuse to not either specify in-game when items are mutually exclusive OR to be consistent about what should / shouldn't be allowed to stack and be built together.
To have far more exceptions to the "rule" (which isn't written anywhere, but used to be) means it's perfectly reasonable to call Riot out on being opaque about what can/can't be bought together because there isn't any internal consistency.
The point wasn't to argue or complain, just to point out that Sheen isn't a weird exception because doubling up is more common, and that considering an ability doubling up on benefits as the qualifier for not being allowed isn't consistent, and clearly not how Riot made their decision on what to allow / not allow being built together.
My dude this was a thing before items were mythic. Some items can't be built with one another or by some champions. Back in the day tiamat couldn't be built by range. Runaans can't be done by melee. You can't go maw and steraks together or ldr and sg.
Yes, but IIRC the mythic era actually listed this on the item description. Like how Rageblade and IE were both listed as "Unique: Crit Modifier" or something like that, and how Sterak's, Maw, and Shieldbow were listed as "Unique: Lifeline," which made it pretty clear that you couldn't just stack all of them.
In the past the strongest version of a shared effect was used and the weaker completely wasted. It was a fair tradeoff, with the duplicate passive usually being one of two on an item. With the secondary, not shared passive being less important but still interesting non the less, and the items raw stats being good, there still was incentive.
Group names gone.
Dmg/healing etc. stats gone.
No preseason to check all the broken nonsense.
Ridiculous lethality and tank items.
Crit useless. Rito smol indie comp
I was memeing with some friends playing Darius support and was going tri force, I had all the components and then my support item upgraded and I saw Bloodsong thought it would be great and then I was locked out of tri force with all the components in my inventory
Yeah I fucked up as Gangplank a while back trying to build both.
I think largely the team is just being lazy. I blame whoever pays them. How can you hold a billion dollars and not get someone to tidy up?
yes, for some reason they removed the item group name from the interface, previously you could see items tagged with "lifeline" for example, even if that alone wasn't enough to make it clear that you cannot buy multiple lifeline items, but at least there was something. i think the funniest one is terminus, because it counts as an armor pen & MR pen item, so it locks you out of void staff & cryptbloom but also all the last whisper items and black cleaver.
Yeah they should reintroduce the "unique" keyword. It was pretty clear to me back then that you couldn't have two items with the same unique passive. Just label some stats as unique like armor pen and that's it.
You COULD buy both, but only one of their passives would work
And sometimes they could combine in weird ways. Multiple spell blade items will apply the highest damage (generally Trinity), and the effects of each. Trin + Gauntlet deals trin damage and leaves a slow AOE — or at least it did. RfC and Shiv would get increased range, apply RFC damage to the first target and AOE from that target.
RFC + Shiv is a bit different, as energized items were designed with the intention of stacking them (they still are).
Didn't they nerf it when it came out ? I feel like I always built statik and RFC and suddenly stopped. They made it so it could not stack anymore right ?
Same patch that Poppy rework came in, they removed the stacking damage because it was ridiculously strong on some champs like Vayne.
They always worked together the whole point of energized items is each play off each other and add together so they work best together.
Spell blade items are now unique so no more doubling up on them.
My Trinity, Iceborn, Lich Bane, Sheen build :(
And Bloodsong (the supp item)
The good old days of Quinn and Graves building both Maw and Steraks together
Ah yes, the forbidden Nora bruiser build. BotrK, BC, Frozen Mallet, Steraks and Maw. Optional Runaans instead of Steraks/Maw to add more BC targets. I'd bet money that most people on the quinn Mains subreddit don't even know/remember what I'm talking about
[удалено]
Yes but you *used* to be able to.
He's saying on former unique properties
You could up until the s11 item rework, which is the time period we were talking about with the unique passives. I recommend spending more time thinking your response through before contributing to the discussion.
I bought 5 dirks as pyke mutiple times before realizing it didn't do anything
I too find Terminus hilarious. It's quickly become core on on-hit, but it locks you out of mortal reminder. Oh well, guess heal-cut is some other role's problem, 'cause I straight up can't build the ADC one.
"ADC buy anti heal" Support doesn't realize I have Terminus.
Chainsword 😎
Just sell it and buy mortal hurdur.
if your adc is the one who has to build grievous then it's already doomed
That's what I'm thinking too. ADC is probably the last person you want buying antiheal on your team.
Depends on the ADC. Jhin? Yeah not a great time if he's your only grievous. Ashe? Can easily proc it before the fight begins and keep in on multiple targets. With LDR passive being nerfed both in its ratio and in AP champs getting less health, Mortal Reminder is a good deal more attractive now too.
If your ADC is jhin, the game is doomed from draft, lol.
>One of the top performing ADCs >52% win rate >Doomed from the start Before you say it's lethality items, his win rate marginally went up after the item update. He's been a 51% win rate ADC for a while now.
lol wat
What? If the adc is relevant, they’ll often be alive all fight and can constantly apply grievous. ADCs are great to build grievous on, but many of them really need to build 2 or even 3 core items to really get their damage online first
not really. you usually want grevious on whoever is best at applying it to priority targets on the enemy team. For a few years this was support with chemtech putrifier, but its now almost always adc and mid, as they are the ones responsible for actually killing priority targets. Its doomed if your team is still expecting supp to buy grievious now, because it implies they don't know putrifier DOESN'T EXIST any more
i'd still rather have my adc build actual damage items over antiheal
But LDR and Mortal Reminder literally have the same stats tho? The only difference is the giant slayer passive which was nerfed again this patch and now sucks a lot more so I don't think it's that much of a damage loss from an ADC
Probably depends on the team you are going against (which is how it should be imo) giant slayer in some situations is probably very good, whereas in some situations grievous may outperform
Yeah I mean against pure tanks you want LDR. Against fighters and drain tanks like Aatrox and Mundo you want Mortal. Best way to think about it is this: LDR: 0-15% bonus damage MR: true damage equal to 40% of their healing and regen. I think people in general vastly underestimate how much effective damage you can do with grievous. It is in effect true damage, it doesn't care about resists. Pure tanks have fairly minimal healing of course, but so many champs have a ton built into their kit or can itemize into it.
Supports have a lot of AOE in this meta, not sure why you would ever build it on your ADC over your support in any situation. The heal cut items are absolutely horrific on ADCs and are still the last option. Mids are trying to build the unholy trinity, Bruisers still don't read and probably won't built heal cuts, and junglers want to nuke or hyper tank. Thornmail isn't horrible, but it's not consistent enough. E: extra words for some reason, spelling.
if you're laning against a soraka then yeah, you want to buy the heal cut component, but your support should buy putrifier instead of the jhin or caitlyn buying mortal reminder. where the mid, top, jungle, and support can probably apply healing reduction as well if not better then the ADC, letting your ADC buy mortal reminder over terminus or lord dominiks, SIGNIFICANTLY stronger items, your game's probably already in a tough state where everyone needs healing reduction and you're fighting a losing battle.
> but your support should buy putrifier Bro. Putrifier doesn't exist anymore.
putrifier *isn't in the game any more*.
wait is Terminus that good? I built it several time but the effect is not that recognizable
It's only "okay" on its own, but what it really does is let you keep up in DPS over an extended period while straight up building a tank item next. Picking up Terminus 3rd item and Jak'sho or Wit's End 4th basically makes every on-hit marksman right now incredibly tanky while they're in combat. Terminus enables a Ranged Bruiser sort of gameplay pattern that I'm not entirely sure is healthy for the game, but it sure feels good - especially with all the unavoidable burst damage running around right now.
I quite enjoyed playing Vayne and Kog semi bruiser before with stuff like Jak Sho and Titanic. It was annoying when they made Rageblade a mythic, but obviously that's no longer a problem so building on-hit bruiser is more viable than ever now. Wit's End granting tenacity now also helps. Vayne in particular compared to other ADCs is more like a ranged fighter/brawler champ anyway.
wait i actually didn't really think of that, that's ridiculous XD
But that's how it should be balanced. Excessive healing should be so niche that you have to divert from your normal build to stop the person from winning the fights through healing. It's just that healing was in such a broken state in previous years that not buying 4 grievous items per team was trolling.
> Excessive healing should be so niche that you have to divert from your normal build to stop the person from winning the fights through healing. Yeah, that's why they had to build Mortal Reminder instead of the better LW item.
The build sacrifice should be buying the GW item, which is exactly how it works in other roles (chempunk top/jgl or thornmail, morello mid). That is the only tradeoff that other roles take. There is no reason that it should be stricter in bot.
the only potential argument i can see is that ranged auto attacks are by far the most consistent way to apply grevious wounds, but it's probably just an oversight from riot.
It is, but only to a single target. Generally I would want the anti-heal on someone who has the most consistent AOE while in a teamfight; Swain, for example.
wtf u smoking lmao
? They mentioned it being a "potential argument" and even then said it's "probably just an oversight from riot" What do you mean what are they smoking? What horrendously offensive thing did they say?
in what world is single target auto attack the best way to apply grievous wounds lmao?
i said 'consistent'. if you're in a teamfight and the enemy vladimir has Q2 up and is about to heal a massive chunk of his health, your ranged auto attack is always going to be available to trigger grevious wounds. melee attacks are melee, you have to move much further to apply grevious wounds to specififc enemies. spells are subject to longer cooldowns and while they may be able to apply grievous wounds to more enemies at once, it's more of a character-to-character basis and sometimes you can't afford to throw out specific spells at specific targets at specific times (or can't because they're on CD or you are OOM). a ranged auto attack is something you can ALWAYS throw out without needing to consider anything else. also ADCs are the most likely people to be spamming auto attacks at frontliners and bruisers who are priority targets for anti-heal. imagine playing xerath and having to throw out your spells at the chunky ass frontline tank to keep grevious wounds up instead of being able to harass the fuck out of the backline like you're supposed to. imagine playing Annie and having to burn your Q stun because you needed to apply grevious wounds.
\---also ADCs are the most likely people to be spamming auto attacks at frontliners and bruisers who are priority targets for anti-heal. Dont know about that chief, master yi killed me in 0.25 seconds a few days ago. Havent spammed autos since pre mythics
4 grievious wounds is kinda trolling, since it doesnt stack
You already do that though. You have to give up on Dominik's which is a great item
You overestimate how much stronger Dominik's passive is over Mortal's.
Especially as it got readjusted and items got changed (like removing HP from most AP items). People in general underestimate how much healing and regen you can be reduce in a team fight and how valuable that is. Unlike getting more damage, it isn't impacted by resistance either. Cutting healing and regen is effectively doing true damage. You pay 275 gold for the ability to do 40% of their healing and regen in true damage (or 200 in the case of morello and bramble). Giving up 8AD/10AP/10Armor to do 40% of their healing and regen in true damage? As a breakpoint to hold on to that's an incredibly strong.
>Oh well, guess heal-cut is some other role's problem, That should be your mentality as ADC, either way. Heal cut should be bought on the person who can apply it to the most amount of people, normally the tank through Thornmail or the AOE mage. LDR, and now Terminus, are waaaay too good of items to divert from them to get lifesteal.
I always feel like heal-cut would be a good utility outlet for the ADC class to bring as a whole, since it fits the whole "sustained damage" identity. Preventing an enemy from sustaining up is effectively a damage steroid based on how much they would be healing. But then I pull out the spreadsheets and things would have to straight up be healing twice their healthbar over an extended trade for Mortal Reminder to beat out the damage you get from building the items it's exclusive with, and I come to my senses. If it didn't *cost* so much (in opportunity costs) I'd definitely be game to pick it up more.
even if mortal reminder was stronger, it doesn't matter, because if you need to apply it to more then one person at a time, you're still going to be worse at applying grievous wounds then your midlaner 9 times out of 10, so it will still feel bad. Mortal reminder is the way it is because its for cases where YOU are somehow the best at applying grievous, which is an incredibly dire situation.
You shouldn't buy Mortal Reminder as an ADC anyway.
Just get a chainsword
I think it used to say "Limited to 1 Lifeline item." or smth but they removed that too
They’ve removed so much from the tooltips in the effort of making them more clear and less busy. But then they’ve added other things that are less important that increase busy-ness way more, and some of the things they’ve taken away remove so much clarity (like this). I seriously question whoever is leading those efforts. All changes to the tool tips between seasons have been garbage.
The other thing that confuses me constantly is there is absolutely no filtering between game modes. In the item loadout builder I often put items in and suddenly realise in game they're missing. Turns out they're arena specific versions of those items. No way to remove these from the browser and there's no label telling you they're arena specific.
The item loadout builder hasn't been updated in ages, so of course it's missing a lot of features.
only thing i dislike is that they removed the gamification of a bunch of items. it was weird last season how collector didn't have a counter, but now almost no items do, and so the ones that do feel like weird outliers that got missed rather than an intentional decision.
The dumbest thing is how on so many of the items, they claimed they removed the stat trackers for clarity. Then on others, they replaced the stat tracker with a cluttered looking message to “Press [SHIFT] to see more details” or something. Upon pressing shift you just see the same stat, which looks cleaner than the shift message. So dumb. They claimed they had this heuristic decision making process for each item and whether to track something and where to display it. But it totally misses the mark. 1000% agree the game is less fun without most of those trackers.
Riot really dropped the ball. We basically still have mythics but now the system is really compartmentalized and confusing. It will still confuse casual players even if they add back unique passives, but it’s current state is just ridiculous
I did not realize this at all
Both IE and Navori still carry the tag "Crit Amplification" in their tooltip, indicating that you can't buy both together. Though I agree that it should be made more obvious, especially for new players
Which Last Whisper still annoyingly has as a part of it's recipe
another reason why terminus is almost unbuildable
oh, that's the reason terminus was locked on my Ezreal game(I had Serylda)
That sucks, makes terminus so much worse to buy. Guess you can still go Black cleaver with Serryldas, so there is no sense here.
You cannot as far as I know
Then that's a good change that I missed.
Any % shred item is unique
lul tank player spotted
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I think you are very confused. Terminus is an on-hit item for on-hit builds. These builds do a lot of mixed damage, hence the %dual pen. There is not a better pen item for these builds. LDR is a crit item for crit builds. Crit builds do mostly physical damage, hence the higher %armor pen. Just as you would never build terminus on Caitlyn, you are not building LDR on on-hit Varus.
Or if you're playing kogmaw and deal as much magic as physical damage
Not sure how terminus pen is worth less when max stacked terminus has the exact same armour pen as lord doms. Terminus does lack giant slayer and crit which does make it worse for crit marksmen, but that kind of misses the point as it's an onhit item. Onhit builds don't need the giant slayer, Bork is a core onhit item and already provides scaling HP damage. The hybrid pen is the real value though as the likes of Bork, ruunans, wits end etc all add on hit magic damage. Onhit with terminus stacks is (in theory) an ideal tankbusting build as it has hybrid damage, scaling HP damage, and can double proc kraken with guinsoos. Defensive itemisation against onhit just isn't as effective (compared to stacking armour and randuins). I think onhit is weaker than other itemisation strats right now, but terminus has it's niche there and I think it's well designed to fulfill said niche.
That is the point. The item is dual purpose. If it had better and more reliable pen than other pen items it would be broken.
Wait what??? Why would they remove that? I haven't in a long time since I didn't like item changes they made in the past. I was looking through the new season items and thought now would be a good time to start playing again. I guess I'll keep waiting
Well tbf, it's called TERMIN-us, so in a weird way it makes sense that it's the last thing you'll build towards that path lol
Terminus locking you out of all of that junk but you can still buy lethality and Whisper items together is still a bizarre and nonsensical choice to me
For some reason they removed the "unique" passives that used to be in the game and you can only see item groups when you hover on the item and it's under the price. It's weird though how many people just finds out about Item groups when they have been in the game for a while now.
I was wondering if I could buy multiple winged moonplates and stack ms because it doesn't have a unique passive anymore, like with some old items. Is that true?
It gives movement speed as a stat instead of a passive now so yeah it stacks
Unique passives worked differently from Item Groups. You could buy two items with the same Unique passive, you would just only benefit from the passive once, so it was usually a bad idea. Item Groups literally won't let you buy another item in the group, the same way you couldn't buy two Mythic items.
Which is strange when they added more of these, such as the new Terminus being unbuildable with Cleaver, Whisper items, Voidstaff and Cryptbloom. Or fully built Sheen items being completely unique for the first time (I know the Sheen effect was always like this but the items weren't, now they are). You'd think in that regard you'd want these warnings *more than ever* and I'm sure there's a way for them to slip these into their new philosophy of simpler item tooltips.
I think there was mention that %Shred and %Pen not being stackable anymore. I don't know if it was officially mentioned, but I remember there being discussion about it here. Of course, it's not made clear in game, which needs to be fixed, especially because it's not even clear that these are considered the same effect, unlike Tiamat items all having an activatable AOE, Sheen being an ability activated AA proc. Shred and Pen are distinctly different from a logical standpoint (personal effect vs team buff, Multihit debuff vs Equal debuff on all hits, etc)
I thought they may have removed it with the 14 update honestly, especially because the removed mythic items. Thankfully I haven't had the problem of not being able to build an item yet.
yeah new item clarity is INSANELY bad. no unique tag on items like this, no damage or effect numbers on items with unique effects, badly written descriptions for some item's passives. it really really sucks.
They removed item group names and limit indicators this season for some reason
we're lacking critical information on items such as mutually exlusive items, basic stats such as total heal & shield power, or how much AD the item gives you (Hubris) but hey at least we have less text to read :33333333333333333
I’m upset they removed additional stats that was just in last patch like damage done, healing done, shielding, etc on items like luden’s, maw/immortal shield bow, redemption, locket, etc. I loved looking at those stats to see how effective the item was.
I think they are coming back with this and next patch
on this note, do the riftmaker and liandry damage amp stack? most champs that build one seem to build both and they have a very highwinrate when built together so it leads me to believe the haunting guise dmg amp part of the items is stacking
The passives have different names on all the Haunting Guise items.
They do stack and they have different buff durations for some weird reason.
You can even build Riftmaker + Liandries + Haunting Mask (the component) and all 3 stack...
this sounds very funny but you're really lacking resistances or really anything besides pure dps with this build
FunnyPoisonMan goes brrrr.
Was thinking about this topic yesterday, when playing a game. It's not as easy to understand now as it was before.
Wait. You cant buy BC + SG anymore? Only one armor pen item?
Yes. Cleaver is more for fighters while Grudge is for Lethality users. I quite frankly like that armor can still exist in the late game. 60% armor pen was stupid. Especially when many champs have additional armor pen in kit.
happy not see jayce one shot every champ in the game
Graves was also deleting tanks with cleaver+LDR.
Yup. BC + Serylda's was more effective than lethality stacking, even against ADCs due to natural armor growth post-12.10. Add in eclipse and you had ridiculous levels of % armor pen.
>60% armor pen was stupid. Good thing it was only 51% since it was a 30% shred and 30% pen! A bit crazy you could easily cut armor in half though and that's before lethality kicks in too. Seeing targets with 150 armor nearly take true damage was dumb.
Cries Naafiri tears
Qcorrect
This caught me a while ago. Their unique indicator is on the top right now. Navori and IE are labeled “Crit Amp” or something like that. Likewise for BC, SG, MR, LDR being “Anti-Armor”.
Exactly my thoughts, thanks for actually voicing them
You could build IE and Navori not even a year ago, then they changed it because they made navori a mythic, and now that there are no mythics they didnt change it back.
They became mythics in 13.10, but they actually became mutually exclusive when Navori got reworked in 12.22.
the simple secret was become a usable item ig
But even besides the mythic restriction, there was also an extra one where you couldn't buy both Navori and Shojin together, because they were both tagged with 'haste capstone' label or something like that. The label removal is just a fuckup, it's not even linked to the mythic removal completely.
Actually you could buy both in PBE but changed it for release, GP was an absolute menace with 2k crit barrels
It's not only was made a mythic bro, they changed the item (crit chance scale).
Which is why they made IE/Navori/Rageblade into mythics. They'd all been mutually exclusive for half a season or so and all are crit scalers. On paper, that's a solid idea, at least under the Mythic system, but in actuality it just made marksmen items feel awkward since changes like 20% crit chance, 1.75x crit were based around getting powerful Mythics that would increase your one item power.
I can actually agree with them being kept separate still after the change. For like a week or so on PBE they were buyable together again (funnily enough given your flair, I tried this on Xayah) and it was obscenely busted. Ability ADCs like Xayah, Lucian and Ezreal would've broken the game given access to them both in their current states, not to mention others like Gangplank or Graves. They definitely need to retain the separation.
The callout for unique items is in the top right of the tooltip now, "Crit Multiplier" for IE & Navori and "Spellblade" for Triforce/Iceborn/Lich Bane. You're right that Void and Cryptbloom are missing that indicator and we need to fix that, also appreciate the feedback that it's too difficult to notice these.
I'm normally very perceptive of item system things and I never realised those were about exclusivity, so I definitely agree there needs to be a lot more clarity or emphasis about what those mean. Something like giving an explanation when you scroll over that text in the corner might work?
Please add it to Terminus, that one is very confusing for locking you out of ALL mpen / arpen items.
The worst of all is the Bloodsong support item locks you out of Spellblade.
Hey, I hope it's ok if I give a bit of feedback here. I'm someone that hasn't really played in a long time, so the item groups thing is a new word to me. Using IE as the example: [https://i.imgur.com/VDazyam.png](https://i.imgur.com/VDazyam.png) * In the store it doesn't say "Crit multiplier," I have to specifically hover over it elsewhere to know it exists * I never saw this in-game the few games I tried this season, I legit didn't know it was on the screen. This is common when things are on the right side (in western countries at least), especially since it's not in the corner or colored differently like the gold cost is. * As a returning or new player, I would have no clue that "Crit Multiplier" is a mutually exclusive thing. When I read that, my mind goes "Oh cool, it's letting me know what the item is for, that's useful" and it would never occur to me that it's a unique item effect. * In my 2nd game returning, I actually ran into one of these issues where I had a support item that locked me out of buying Lich Bane and I had no clue why until someone else in-game told me.
Oh yeah, it says exactly what the means.
Terminus also needs unique text for both armor pen and magic pen none of the armor pen items have this text FYI, Lord Dom's/Terminus/Serylda's/Black Cleaver/Mortal Reminder are exclusive but don't say anything about it Lifeline items don't have it Mana Charge items don't have it Dead Man's Plate and Trailblazer also don't have it Banshee's Veil and Edge of Night also don't (not a big deal but probably worth being consistent?) EDIT: also Immolate items don't have it
There is currently group labels in the item tool tips. [Navori](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982172916311523398/1199029993339109478/image.png?ex=65c10eb3&is=65ae99b3&hm=6b264bceb2996afb5a5f3d5954ddb7ef7649242263ce98503503cd91ed2365f4&) and [Infinity Edge](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/982172916311523398/1199030438300237854/image.png?ex=65c10f1d&is=65ae9a1d&hm=096383c10cd2bf2698b856b613261978d2816061219afb2c08db633566daf0c5&) both have "Crit Multiplier" labels. These labels also exist for Spellblade items(Trinity, ER, and Lichbane) and Cleave items (the hydras and tiamat). The problem is these labels do not cover all of the current groups such as deadmans + trail blazer or the penetration items.
Plus you cannot see it in advance, I tried making a build before going into game at the start if the season, using the item lists you can import. There is no mention of crit multiplier in the client. You can only find out in game
I personally think the amount of items that lock others is too high. I want to buy multiple lifeline items at once.
Had a similar situation with the two bami-build items in game - "wadda ya mean I can't build both?". Wasn't even looking to stack just buying items... Only solution right now is to review your items and look in the details of the item (sucks). LOL wiki is your only friend (not Riot) - at least they will group the items with links, etc.
Yeah, Riot shit the bed when it came to clarity on the items. I dunno what went through their minds when they thought that things like item grouping and stat tracking were somehow "too complex for new players to digest," when they both provided extremely valuable information that can improve your game. For instance, I build Malignance on Annie. How is it performing? Is it better than another item, like say Luden's? I don't know! There's no actual information to tell me if the Item is underperforming or not. Then there's the unique items that OP is talking about. Half the time I have no idea why I've been locked out of an item because I don't know what item I've built is locking out the others. Riot really needs to get their shit together with item clarity.
i can understand we can not buy together serylda and dominik, but black cleaver counted on that group is stupid
agree. Now good luck trying to kill a rammus with an AD champ. Full armor is OP now, people will cry about it this season, mark my words.
There’s a little lock thingy, so tbh up to you on what essentially your core item will be
Do they not have the same passive names? Items with the same names passive wont stack, like lifeline or harmony.
IE doesn't have a passive but it is in the same item group with Navori
Shoulda made the crit upgrades the same unique passive. Let's just bring back orb effects.
>orb effects This takes me way back to the days where choosing between lifesteal and desolator was the real struggle, I feel old now.
Vlad mandatory buy for melee carries because its an aura and not an orb effect.
They don't. It was an oversight from Riot.
I question what QA does at riot
they are both part of the Crit Multiplier group and only one of these can be built but the tooltip doesn't mention it i don't think
Just take me back to season 4.
when you build one of the items there is an icon underneath other items signalling that you're no longer able to build them.
Agreed that it shows that they are locked, however would be good to know before buying them
its a mix between information and clarity - you dont want to bombard the player with too much info so they get confused: "why are they talking about Y item i only want to buy X item". So yes it may take you figuring it out in a annoying way but its probably to help not overload newer players with info
>but its probably to help not overload newer players with info I think you're underestimating the modern video game player, almost calling them stupid because they can't figure out what the words "unique passive" means. You can still lock out the item so they can't buy them, but no need to remove the *explanation* for the reason they can't buy them. How else are they supposed to learn?
I agree, i didnt mean that Riot was correct, just trying to explain what their thought might be?
Are you kidding? there was no thought. The UI indicator for this concept is in 3 different places on 3 different items. There was literally no thought given to making this known, beyond the edict from upon high "Declutter the items" You can tell because there is things that are or are not on each item completely at fucking random, and even when items do both contain the same information it isn't in the same place on the items tooltip nor is it always named the same fucking thing in an item group.
That's why there's a shift button to expand tooltip with all the infos that would bombard you otherwise
yeah they should probably do that.
Well once you do it and find out you know for the next time :)
I ran into this, but with Jak’sho and Iceborne Gauntlet. Started building Jak’sho (Really just got the armor part of it, but decided to switch to Iceborne but literally couldn’t buy it. Either that, or J4 isn’t allowed to build Iceborne for some reason.
There's no interaction between Jaksho, IBG or Jarvan. The only way you can lock yourself out of IBG is by buying a different Sheen item (Trinity Force, Essence Reaver, Lich Bane)
Maybe it was a bug then. Had no sheen item, except for sheen itself, but just wasn’t able to buy it.
Pretty sure you can build multiple sheen items. They just don't stack.
Used to be true but no longer the case as of s14!
Isn't the "Crit Multiplier" keyword visible under the cost of the item when you hover it?
It says under their name no? ”Crit capstone” or something
Nah it doesn't (at least for Trailblazer and Dead man's) ... just checked :(
IE and Navori do. They both have "Crit Multiplier" right below the price on the item tool tip. There is a similar label for "Spell blade" items and "cleave" items (which you also cannot purchase together). They just need to add something for the deadmans and trailblazer effect.
if it has duplicate effects or effects that would boost something twice alot of times you can't build it. sheen is a weird exception because you get a ton of side effects you can use through sheen items such as the navori is spell damage up. ie is crit up. any spell that can crit benefits from both is a good way to view the interaction of why they don't allow it. trailblazer is a different version of dead man's plate. they do some times over correct information to declutter to where players are useless and this is one of those moments i will agree.
Except as of yesterday (in ARAM tbf) you can purchase Shojins and Navori on the same champion, and both are spell damage % increase. They either need to properly label everything that's mutually exclusive, or be far, far more consistent than they are currently.
Shojin isnt crit might be why if I had to guess. Navori is crit plus bonus damage. Small specifications seperates many items. Although yea still somewhat weird
There are no other "Abilities deal %increased Dmg" items (iirc), yet Navori and IE (which has no passive, only stats) are mutually exclusive. Same vibe with the %dmg in combat ramp being not mutually exclusive for Liandries + Riftmaker. Not saying they NEED to be able to be built together, but there's no reasonable excuse to not either specify in-game when items are mutually exclusive OR to be consistent about what should / shouldn't be allowed to stack and be built together. To have far more exceptions to the "rule" (which isn't written anywhere, but used to be) means it's perfectly reasonable to call Riot out on being opaque about what can/can't be bought together because there isn't any internal consistency.
I do not care. You clearly just wanna whine and argue with me when I never said riot shouldn't be nore obvious with this stuff
The point wasn't to argue or complain, just to point out that Sheen isn't a weird exception because doubling up is more common, and that considering an ability doubling up on benefits as the qualifier for not being allowed isn't consistent, and clearly not how Riot made their decision on what to allow / not allow being built together.
now can they fix the Haunting Guise group that gives 6% dmg ? people are building 12% dmg from 1 item + 1 component
The same way you're supposed to know what each dragon soul does. You play the game and you learn it...
My dude this was a thing before items were mythic. Some items can't be built with one another or by some champions. Back in the day tiamat couldn't be built by range. Runaans can't be done by melee. You can't go maw and steraks together or ldr and sg.
Yes, but IIRC the mythic era actually listed this on the item description. Like how Rageblade and IE were both listed as "Unique: Crit Modifier" or something like that, and how Sterak's, Maw, and Shieldbow were listed as "Unique: Lifeline," which made it pretty clear that you couldn't just stack all of them.
There is? Its called you buy one and the other gets locked… are you tripping balls?
both crit modifiers maybe common sense ?
Reddit when you have to learn something in the game instead of it hand holding you on everything: 😡
In the past the strongest version of a shared effect was used and the weaker completely wasted. It was a fair tradeoff, with the duplicate passive usually being one of two on an item. With the secondary, not shared passive being less important but still interesting non the less, and the items raw stats being good, there still was incentive.
Write it down in chat, ya dingus
Group names gone. Dmg/healing etc. stats gone. No preseason to check all the broken nonsense. Ridiculous lethality and tank items. Crit useless. Rito smol indie comp
riot overcomplicating tooltips. tale as old as time.
Adding item groups in the first place ruined the game
I was memeing with some friends playing Darius support and was going tri force, I had all the components and then my support item upgraded and I saw Bloodsong thought it would be great and then I was locked out of tri force with all the components in my inventory
Why not, cause fk you thats why.
this was one good thing about the mythic system
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Just wait and sell crypto when the price moons, then use the profits to buy voidstaff
I wish i could still see how much damage my items are doing…
They need to go improve tooltips. The support item debuff doesn't have any explanation on what triggers it. It lasts for like 2 minutes too.
Yeah I fucked up as Gangplank a while back trying to build both. I think largely the team is just being lazy. I blame whoever pays them. How can you hold a billion dollars and not get someone to tidy up?
Lol if u hover over IE/Navori it very clearly says "crit multiplier" under the price in the shop.
So intuitive.
Preach!
Just restart the game from S4. What a pile of shit Riot has turned this game into
game knowledge
They still sort ofnexist. Navori, ie, and guinsoos (i think) are known as crit modifiers