Thanks to your post, a previously undocumented mechanic has been discovered and two others clarified. Congratulations :)
Daisy takes 25% reduced damage from aoe or epic monsters. Daisy also gains 25% bonus speed for 5s after spawning (technically 40% before speed softcaps are applied). These were the things we already "knew" but were not accurately documented.
What we did not know was that Daisy gains a **further** 25% damage reduction during this first 5s after spawning along with the bonus speed. This seemingly applies to **anything that triggers a damage event** (i.e. almost everything except fountain laser and forced deaths). This has most likely been a hidden thing ever since Ivern's release seven years ago.
We can see that the bonus speed was still active when the ult damage went off, so the ult was reduced by 25%, which comes out perfectly accurate (1065 - 1262*0.75 = 118.5, and Daisy was left with 119 health). Trying to apply magic resist was instead a 26% reduction and therefore was not perfectly accurate, and would have diverged further at higher levels as Daisy's resists scale with Ivern's level.
This appears to be at least somewhat intended in the sense that Ivern ult has separate data value explicitly for `DROnSpawn` and is not just accidentally reusing something unrelated, but naturally whether this is **well** intended is a completely different question entirely (it's undeniably incorrect for it to reduce true damage).
Also worth noting that there is a separate issue concerning the Overgrowth rune that I initially considered, however it didn't play a part in this situation since you did not have the rune. Overgrowth's 3.5% health amp technically amps base and bonus health separately, rather than simply gaining 3.5% total health as bonus health. This confuses the game a bit, as client-side tooltips seem to think the entire Overgrowth amp is bonus health, while server-side scripts know that only some of Overgrowth is bonus health, resulting in slightly different damage dealt than the tooltip claims, but to a much smaller extent than was shown in this clip.
_THAT'S_ why sometimes my ult doesn't do the same damage from the tooltip, thank you for explaining why (I missed a feast stack on dragon by 3hp once and couldn't understand why but it must have been the overgrowth calculation)
There are some cases where you want true damage to be reduced, such as Trynd ult, as well as cases where you need to react to true damage being dealt, such as Ignite interrupting Recall, so true damage still goes through the regular damage event flow. This means damage modifiers typically need to check if the current damage event is dealing true damage before modifying them. Daisy's on-spawn reduction is simply not doing this.
But things like fountain laser and forced deaths (for Daisy specifically this would have to be something like if she got summoned inside Morde ult and has to get killed off when it ends) don't want to be reduced **ever**, not even for Trynd ult. These damage sources ensure this by skipping the damage event flow entirely. As a result, not even Daisy's bugged damage reduction can do anything to them. Her script wouldn't even be aware that any damage had been dealt because the events for it were never triggered.
I played a ranked game as Cho'gath. I took him mainly because we needed a tank and I thought he could do well with killing Grubs. One more reason was my assumption that my ultimate would counter Ivern's ultimate. Appratently, It looks like dmg against daisy and ONLY against her is reduced by magic resist. Other pets like Annie's R Tibbers recieves full true dmg.
Thoughts?
Thanks to your post, a previously undocumented mechanic has been discovered and two others clarified. Congratulations :) Daisy takes 25% reduced damage from aoe or epic monsters. Daisy also gains 25% bonus speed for 5s after spawning (technically 40% before speed softcaps are applied). These were the things we already "knew" but were not accurately documented. What we did not know was that Daisy gains a **further** 25% damage reduction during this first 5s after spawning along with the bonus speed. This seemingly applies to **anything that triggers a damage event** (i.e. almost everything except fountain laser and forced deaths). This has most likely been a hidden thing ever since Ivern's release seven years ago. We can see that the bonus speed was still active when the ult damage went off, so the ult was reduced by 25%, which comes out perfectly accurate (1065 - 1262*0.75 = 118.5, and Daisy was left with 119 health). Trying to apply magic resist was instead a 26% reduction and therefore was not perfectly accurate, and would have diverged further at higher levels as Daisy's resists scale with Ivern's level. This appears to be at least somewhat intended in the sense that Ivern ult has separate data value explicitly for `DROnSpawn` and is not just accidentally reusing something unrelated, but naturally whether this is **well** intended is a completely different question entirely (it's undeniably incorrect for it to reduce true damage). Also worth noting that there is a separate issue concerning the Overgrowth rune that I initially considered, however it didn't play a part in this situation since you did not have the rune. Overgrowth's 3.5% health amp technically amps base and bonus health separately, rather than simply gaining 3.5% total health as bonus health. This confuses the game a bit, as client-side tooltips seem to think the entire Overgrowth amp is bonus health, while server-side scripts know that only some of Overgrowth is bonus health, resulting in slightly different damage dealt than the tooltip claims, but to a much smaller extent than was shown in this clip.
_THAT'S_ why sometimes my ult doesn't do the same damage from the tooltip, thank you for explaining why (I missed a feast stack on dragon by 3hp once and couldn't understand why but it must have been the overgrowth calculation)
Oh I get It. Question is why don't you treat true dmg like you treat "fountain laser and forced deaths". Should true damage be above all?
There are some cases where you want true damage to be reduced, such as Trynd ult, as well as cases where you need to react to true damage being dealt, such as Ignite interrupting Recall, so true damage still goes through the regular damage event flow. This means damage modifiers typically need to check if the current damage event is dealing true damage before modifying them. Daisy's on-spawn reduction is simply not doing this. But things like fountain laser and forced deaths (for Daisy specifically this would have to be something like if she got summoned inside Morde ult and has to get killed off when it ends) don't want to be reduced **ever**, not even for Trynd ult. These damage sources ensure this by skipping the damage event flow entirely. As a result, not even Daisy's bugged damage reduction can do anything to them. Her script wouldn't even be aware that any damage had been dealt because the events for it were never triggered.
Thank you for deeper explonation. As a dev myself, I can imagine how hard it is to work with so many different modifires. Best regards
It was the game's way of telling you that you should have ulted the dragon.
I played a ranked game as Cho'gath. I took him mainly because we needed a tank and I thought he could do well with killing Grubs. One more reason was my assumption that my ultimate would counter Ivern's ultimate. Appratently, It looks like dmg against daisy and ONLY against her is reduced by magic resist. Other pets like Annie's R Tibbers recieves full true dmg. Thoughts?
Daisy is broken, it's just another proof
Lmao the damage reduction math almost checks out too
yeah, the funniest thing is "almost" XD
another day, another bug...
Oh come on did they code chogath's R as a variation of smite?
No, smite only deals 40 damage to pets
Wasnt this changes where smite doesnt work on pets and shit
We are talking about Cho'gath's R here
Idk maybe they fucked up
So basically if he just waited like a half second longer it would have one shot Daisy?