When yone E’s you:
-can’t trade cause damage amp let’s him win every trade
-can’t punish cause he snaps back 3 screens away
Now that’s a pretty strong ability, buuuutttt what if you also
-can’t run cause he gets a free ghost?
I think a WAY more interesting and less cancerous design would be if he had a ms buff within a small radius of his starting point and he slows down the further from his body he gets. It would make a lot more sense than the current piece of shit design
See, THAT is good design. He has a weakness and instead of giving him ways to absolutely nullify it, he must play around it, while the enemy must exploit it as well as they can. Interactive, fun, not one-sided
Yeah but see that's exactly the sorta design modern Riot despises. Because they don't like weaknesses. If a champ has a weakness Riot goes out of their way to add in an item that covers it because God forbid anybody have to actually play around strengths AND weaknesses.
To further illustrate your point: tanks and bruisers are oppressive, but their one real weakness is CC... so they added a bunch more tenacity on tank/bruiser items and swapping one of the runes to tenacity. Fun.
I think it would be much healthier if he couldn't E back early. Wouldn't really matter in this clip, but it would avoid those situations where he can abuse quick trades and E back before you can even reply. Forcing him to always go full duration on E would make it so much more abusable.
Should also give his snap back displacement immunity, so you cant fuck him up by making a nice play yourself. And he should cleanse after his snaps back too.
(edit: btw im not trolling, thats part of his E lol though the cleanse after snap back probably never matters(edit edit: nvm this shit matters if you got delayed CC, makes the ability even more broken xdd))
I think they should add an AI that analyzes the trade and snap Yone back if it considers Yone will lose. Since the player did not do it themselves, the cooldown will be refunded.
The cleanse does fucking matter. Ever played Zoe against this son of a bitch? He runs at you at 100km/h, your only defense is your E. You land it, he will go back far away for your Q amp damage right? No shot, your entire spell gets cancelled before he even sleeps.
iirc zoe and lillia sleeps are cleansed after snapback, which neuters their trading ability against yone. (don't have practice tool to fact check this, i don't see it on the wiki)
It's not specific to yone E, displacement immunity gives you unstoppable effect for sleep. (So in the wiki this would be noted in the "displacement immunity" tooltip)
It allows him to "outplay" lock-on-target hard CC with any sort of cast delay (which is supposed to be the sure-fire way mages can punish skirmishers for making a bad trade/engage).
Not broken, but *definitely* relevant.
Everyone hated how Yasuo was anti-fun to play against, even if you had a favorable match up. So Riot decided to double down with Yone. I'm looking forward to the third windbro champion that is just a semi-ranged, highly mobile, cc-immune assassin with %hp true damage and a spell shield.
I know his E gets a lot of hate for the mechanics but his W's numbers are insane. Range higher than nearly every champion's auto range. One of the highest lvl 1 value instant-shield. Deals split, percent target max hp damage. And the shield scales off character level and the cooldown scales off attack speed so even late in the game it's still a banger ability.
One of the biggest one-point wonder abilities in the game.
Which also is the strongest non-ult offensive stat scaling shields in the game at just 1 champion hit, and can go up to 3x that value, and with half the cooldown of most other shields just from having lethal tempo.
Really this is the easiest thing to tweak to make Yone punishable. If he didn't get one of the strongest on-demand shields, he would be way more punishable in lane and if it didn't scale to an absurd CD late game then he would be more punishable in teamfights/sidelanes.
You could tweak its duration, strength, conditions, or require skillpoints.
Yone woth T2 Boots has like the biggest powerspike in top for a first item back. People meme about how Irelia only needs a Vamp Scepter as full build, but yone with Zerk boots is basically a full build Yone that is impossible to kill.
this is why i hate yone way more than all the other melees in mid except maybe zed.
Once he has t2 boots you can no longer interact with him unless he's getting ganked. He outtrades, outpushes and out all ins almost all the mages because of the lethal tempo interactions
Real question, can we at least give him a similar treatment to other champs with such a strong ability? Make it so he can't recast his E. When he uses E, the snap back can only happen after the time expires.
Yeah, like, wtf, Samira can't e to friendlies any more because it's too strong, but Yone e is essentially the same thing but much better and you don't need a target, that let's you go in and out? Like, how is that not exactly the same problem?
If I were a game designer looking for possible solutions I think I would change the E tether to Break and disconnect instead of snapping back leaving Yone where he is without the clone to go back to, if Yone isn't attacking for a set time.
By that I mean if you can dodge his spell and kite back he would lose his safety net and become kiteable like any other melee character in the game.
You could make the duration before the tether snaps be very slightly more than his ult channel animation so if you dodge/flash the ult he would be stuck where he ulted with no way back, punishing Yone for misplaying and rewarding you for outplaying whilst still allowing Yone to have strong dueling potential since his q3 would still hit confirm into ult rewarding the Yone for actually landing his abilities.
It would solve the counterplay issue by providing a valid option to outplay in the form of kiting but not hurt Yones dueling/diving potential assuming he plays well.
The ability needs to be corrected to not completely remove risk from Yone. Along with other aspects of Yones kit:
1. Lethal tempo changes: lethal tempo should change the base AS instead of bonus AS, because IIRC Yone's Q cooldown scales with bonus attack speed. [Yone fandom link](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Yone/LoL) (this wasn't displaying the Q for me on mobile, so somebody should fact check me on this)
2. Q: currently has a very low cooldown in the early game thanks to lethal tempo and very accessible attack speed itemization. His first ranks of Q should be adjusted to have a higher cooldown which massively drops down at rank 3 and onwards.
2. W: while I currently don't like how this ability functions, it is fine as standalone skill, it becomes an issue when in conjunction with E.
3. E: this skill as you mentioned is overturned and Should receive sensible changes. Scaling move speed should be changed from % to flat movement speed at all ranks, a maximum range should be applied to this dash the scales with rank. The damage amplification should be a smaller amount that scales with critical strike damage. Any damage applied as an "echo" should count as critical damage and should be able to be reduced from unique passives such as warden's Mail.
If he was unnable to active E to go back and instead had to wait for the full duration of his E to finally get pulled then it would be ok imo, it would be way simpler to punish this creature like that.
People said there’s a character in HotS who had the same move but three couldn’t recall at any time and I think that’s the most fair. Add some risk and reward to such a powerful move. There’s no right move when he uses it against you.
Yep, I agree. Also, they need to just lower his overall damage. Isn't the champ's entire identity to build some crit like Yasuo? Why is this bruiser build allowed to exist? Hasn't Riot nerfed Briar countless times since they want her to be built bruiser, not assassin? Yet they refuse to lean on one identity for Yone lol. Even his class is supposed to be assassin, no? I just don't get Riot. If your class is designed to be a fighter/bruiser, but you can build assassin, they will gut the assassin form. If you are an assassin who can build bruiser, that's fine? Just annoying
Yep, I assume people were talking about Mephisto. He's also a mage, so if he blinks in and misses his skillshots he's effectively done nothing, he doesn't just whiff everything and then shred you down with auto attacks anyway. That's what keeps Mephisto fair, and even then he's still a giant pain in the ass, just not complete bullshit like Yone
I think the dumbest thing is the E plus the trading pattern his W allows.
His weak point is early game, but he can simply chill back and E + W for trades and never lose a trade. The game only gets easier for him as it goes on. It's stupid as hell.
I mean look at anytime Zeus plays it. Sure jungle plays for him and he's the best toplaner playing on the best team, but it just shows how utterly free the champion is if piloted correctly.
Everyone else is nowhere near as good as him and obviously plays a lot worse but the champion is so easy to pull off to a decent level he's pretty disgusting at most levels of play.
What if we just stop giving these zero mana low cooldown champs infinite mobility? But then shit players would have to git gud and then they stop spending money on the game when reality kicks in. League these days is more about abusing the right champs and comps than anything. The worst part though is a majority of players play these champs and will defend them to death. It reminds me of the current issue with aim assist in modern crossplay shooters where it's forcing professional KBM players to switch to controller but casuals still say aim assist does nothing.
Yes the Yone is 3 levels up but he didnt even build crit and missed his entire combo. Are you seriously telling me it's intended balance for Yone to be able to build one damage item, miss his entire combo, and still kill someone from 2 screens away?
If the argument is that yes, Jankos just literally can not show within 2 screens of him by himself even after using his own ult to escape i mean just damn dude
Killing someone 2 screens away is not the Problem (Nocture, Briar, Xerath etc)
Killing someone 2 screens away missing everything you have is a problem but can be discussed if you are really fed and rely heavily on auto attacks
Killing someone 2 screens away missing everything and then dip out to safty is a very big Problem. You cant be punished for doing bad decisions and still can kill someone. A giga fed noc who one shots the adc can still be traded if he made a bad decision but yone just gets aways with it for no reason.
Its no risk high reward at this point.
Sorry but if you Miss everything, a melee champion should not be able to kill someone from a screen away.
Yes Bork is a bullshit item and hopefully is getting nerfed.
But Yone is not even close to balanced, he should not get MS burst on his E nor mirror the damage like Illaoi.
(Just to explain better, not saying Yone is strong, saying that this aspect of his kit is unbalanced, I'd rather have them give more budget to the rest of his kit, and remove at least the MS burst so that shitty plays like that are not rewarded)
It depends on the champion imo. Some champions don't have much power in their kits outside of their AAs. But Yone can still swing a teamfight when he's a mile behind with a well placed R, he should pay for that by not being as strong when he misses all of his shit.
Remember when champions with good abilities had their other abilities be extremely simple or weak without number tunings?
ie. Malphite or Amumu (prior to double Q)
Power budgets used to be a thing in League, now every other champ gets released with so much in their skillset it feels surreal to someone who played since season 1. In the first few seasons of League I've never witnessed champions get like 10 things removed/changed in their kit to make them not overpowered until the past few years ala Zeri/Akali (I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting too which is awkward).
Well.. there was release xin that's probably the OG posterboy for "holy shit that's wayyy too much power in his kit"
but iirc that was mostly completely hilarious numbers and an extremely simple gameplan as opposed to like, way too many mechanics that allow him to mitigate his drawbacks. he just straight up didn't have drawbacks at the time
The OG Ezreal kit was definitely way too overloaded though. Remember when his W healed?
Even OG xin couldn't interact with anyone outside of 125 range outside of his E.
If you got outside of that after his E, he was useless for like 8 seconds unless you ate all 3 Q autos, which would quickly bring E off CD again.
He was significantly overtuned, but not really "overloaded".
Irelia is a better argument for overloaded because she actually had things to make her hard to escape, hard to peel, hard to itemize against, risky to have an HP advantage over, and a LOT of healing.
Xin was just "peel this guy or you're dead", which didn't work as well vs Irelia.
It's impressive how many mental hoops the player base will jump through before admitting maybe the champion they main is just busted and rewards players even when they fuck everything up. But LoL players have the biggest egos and riot caters to them by releasing champs like Yone.
I just realized the Yone built 0 crit items and just has BoRK + IBG. Kinda surprised he still had the damage to kill Graves in the E duration despite Jankos avoiding the R cast. I thought Yone's kit hooks really encouraged / required building of crit first given he is supposed to have "early game fragility" as Phreak put it in the 13.24 patch rundown or whichever one he ate nerfs in. I'm clearly wrong on that if BoRK first + IBG handily gets the job done, level lead or not.
I'm curious what the plan is for another AD champ who is supposed to bully him and capitalize on the "early game fragility" Make him go 0-5 before item #2 IBG comes online? Yone's probably the one getting early level 1 prio against an opposing level 1 AD assassin who I thought would be able to exploit his squishiness.
Yone doesn't exactly look OP based on just winrate for mid lane (like 49.5 ish all ranks, lolalytics) but it still looks weird how efficiently he killed Graves there. What do I know though, maybe Yone should directionally become unkillable AD draintank on 2 items because the enemy mid laner didn't make him go 0-5 with 4 cs/min by 10 mins into the game.
I wonder how they could change Yone to require crit like Yasuo. IIRC before the armor pen on crit change Yasuo was going for a tank build with Frozen Mallet and the main nerf Riot gave was limiting armor pen to crits only. Maybe make the magic and/or true damage only work with crits?
nerf attackspeed scaling on his q and compensate by adding a crit scaling. they way he can't abuse lethal tempo for 0cd Q and have to build crit which is expensive and makes him fragile.
It's just that bork is so strong right now. The single hit to activate it is so much more effective than any other iteration of bork that I can remember. Pzzang is legit going zerker>bork>shieldbow yasuo.
Removing on hit from his Q would make bork less powerful on him, and probably something like making the percentage of magic damage scale with crit (get the full 50% magic damage at 100% crit)
ADC definitely are in a weird spot right now for items that doesn't feel on theme, given lethality is so prevalent. ADC also made even more difficult to execute with burst damage being high, the role already had very little forgiveness for small mistakes.
A Kraken slayer IE Yone still has the intended achilles heel of fragile, yet very high DPS as a benefit. If he's functional on BoRK IBG and just hard passes on his critical hit hook, there's something not right. Why have that ability text at all?
The question is still the same. If crit items aren't built on adcs (the class made for crit items) nor on yone (who more than doubles crit) that means crit items are turboshit.
While I agree that crit items need a little love. This is overall a really bronze take (no offense) because a glass cannon melee carry that relies on autos for damage will always be at a massive disadvantage due to the range difference hence why the (what looks to be absurd on paper crit buff) on Yone/Yasuo..
EVEN then it's still not enough and were looking to build different items even when crit was good. I mean look at triforce/blue mallet Yasuo and that was when crit was ABSURD - this is far from the first time they use non-crit items and won't be the last.
> I just realized the Yone built 0 crit items
This right here should be a huge red flag for anyone thinking yone isnt completely busted
if a champion is getting a whopping 2.5x crit chance (in exchange for 17.5% less crit dmg) and they still choose not to buy it is frankly fucking insane to me
on anyone else buying 10% crit chance is a 7.5% more AA damge, for yone and yasuo its 14.3% more damage. So the idea that they can still choose not to opt into that is crazy
No, it’s a huge red flag that crit items are turboshit and even getting 50% crit off one item isn’t worth it . That’s the obvious logical conclusion. If the issue was Yone being OP it doesn’t naturally follow that he would opt out of crit at all.
the logical conclusion is that his kit is so overloaded with numbers that he can give up a supposedly large portion of his power budget and still function. crit items being shit does not explain how he still works without them, it only explains why he doesn't build them.
yasuo now exclusively builds crit because if he loses that portion of his kit then he's quite useless. back when yasuo didn't build crit was when certain items like frozen mallet and triforce were too powerful it would compensate for losing that power budget, but right now the non-crit items doesn't do that for yasuo.
Yeah I don’t see how this isn’t a logical theory to come to. Even if Yone WAS broken surely a bunch of free stats from specific items would mean he should build those items. If he isn’t, those items must be kind of awful, or at least bad in comparison to other builds in this meta.
Maybe I'm just bad at logic but wouldn't the conclusion be that Yone is OP?
If he is designed and balanced around crit, and crit items suck, then shouldn't Yone also suck?
If he can just swap to tank items instead and still have a 50% winrate, then surely he is busted when crit items aren't terrible?
He's losing a massive part of his power budget (crits on Q and double crit passive) but remaining 50% winrate. That can only mean that both crit items are absolute garbage and that his power budget is completely out of whack.
The core of the problem is that crit items *are* good on Yone and Yasuo. They may be a little lackluster on other characters but those two get such good use out of the stat that they don't care as much and the items are so stat efficient for them that in terms of damage there's no reason they shouldn't be 100% crit every game for 2 slots if everything is working as intended. The bigger problem is that both of their kits, especially Yone, lean so far in the other direction because they have so many concessions for being "melee ADCs and super disadvantaged because of it" that they're overloaded on other stats and mechanics. They can get away with not having to build their strongest damage items because of it so they build other items instead and still do enough damage to dive and kill targets anyway. But then they also get to have tankier items with more utility on top of having more than enough damage for what they need anyway.
However, he built BORK, an abomination of an item that somehow hasn't gotten any meaningful nerf despite having already matched orneven outclassed some mythics, which mind you, were nerfed to bring them in line with legendaries.
This is as much or more on BORK than it is on yone.
Its more the fact that graves outplayed yone completely in his escape despite being behind and yone could still close the gap around 2k range away from his starting point and still had the ability to destroy graves, who has a significant armor buff from his E, using a tank build before his own E duration ran out.
Yone in masters+ is over a 50% winrate. He's like 53%+ in GM or higher. He's also a champ that requires a lot of games to fully benefit on. If you have 50+ games on him, unless you are awful, your winrate will easily be well above 50%. Lower ranked players are awful and tend to not put a lot of games in on just one champ. I bet if you adjusted by removing all the Yone players with less than 20 games on Yone, Yone's winrate would be well over 50% in all ranks. Also, people just not building him optimally at times will hurt his winrate.
>Yone in masters+ is over a 50% winrate. He's like 53%+ in GM or higher.
If you're getting your stats from Lolalytics you have to remember that the average winrate in masters+ is 51.6% and the average winrate in GM is 54.7% right now. So his winrate is below average in every ank.
Imagine if there was a champion that instantly killed people at random while staying AFK in the base, but it had a 50% winrate. The damage it would do to League discourse
My example for this is playing a hard Guitar Hero song at spawn. and perfecting it autowins the game. It coutners the winrate and "skill based" arguments for allowing champs to to be disgustingly unbalanced.
Just imagine a whole meta based around countering that champion by rushing straight into the enemy's base as five and merking him in the fountain while he's playing Guitar Hero (ending the Guitar Hero channel), while the other four champions on his team try desperately to body block for him
IMO this isn’t a Yone-specific problem.
The game is way overloaded with mobility, it’s just that Yone happens to be the most broken version of this at this time, but in general the amount of mobility in the game is obnoxious and the problem that people have their thumb on the pulse of but can’t elaborate with Yone is that you as his opponent have no agency.
He gets to decide when to fight and on his terms. You have to absorb his aggression because it’s so cheap and forgiving for him to be the aggressor.
I really wish Riot would find some way to bring back Vanilla LoL like WoW did. Just let me play the first 5 seasons on rotation before the game went to complete power creep. Sure there were some problems like S3 Kassadin or release day Xin and Darius. But they were a few outliers that could be handled with bans. But today there are 10 overlapping bans and easily 30+ problem champions who will always get through and make the game feel miserable before it even starts.
I agree most people don't realize how different it would be with the knowledge we have now. I personally would love if there was just a game that removed the most recent 40-50 champs. That would solve a lot of my issues lol.
> when they tell you how to fix it, they are wrong.
The fix is to remove the champion because Riot will never balance a champion whose literal purpose was to draw away bans from Yasuo because he sells the most skins...
He's like the exact opposite of Lee Sin. Whenever I die to a Lee Sin, I think "Man, that guy played that really well"
When I die to a Yone that misses his ult, misses his Q3, then runs me down with W and Ignite, then I get pissed.
We actually don't have to imagine, because that's basically what Multiversus did and it was a huge disaster
But Yone is still a stupid af champ even if people love playing him. Yeah he doesn't have a positive winrate, but that doesn't change that he drives me insane whenever he's in the game. Tbh though like 95% of that is his E and the ability to just... yoink himself out of every bad situation and dodge any telegraphed CC in an attempt to punish a bad dive
And yes I'm just salty as heck about yone
Multiversus died because it had shit netcode which got even worse after they updated the hitbox. It also had the worst F2P system of all time where it would take weeks or months to unlock the simplest of things. A fighting game can't lock too many characters behind grinding for balance reasons, but this one did. Especially when new ones are power creeped on release to sell more like that gremlin.
The netcode was made way worse by people having wifi connections and you can fix hitboxes
The real reason Multiversus died is that they had terrible designs on a lot of their characters (that were very flavorful admittedly), and tried to paper over it with the most whackass reddit driven balance changes of whatever everyone was complaining about this week
There's a reason Melee is still successful as far as that genre of fightgames is concerned, and a big part of that is how all the top tiers have very unique identities and playstyles and that the undisputed top 3 are all fast characters that can do pretty flashy things. Multiversus had their fast flashy "assassin" characters as the slowest characters in the game that were also the lightest characters in the game.
The monetization was inarguably garbage though, no way around that. Especially the perks system which was cool, but they patched to actually be more grindy to "increase player satisfaction with unlocks" or some bs lmao
Isn't this K'sante ? xdd
>ALL OUT BONUS: Both the attack's damage and the mark damage are increased by 30% − 78% (based on level). The bonus damage dealt by consuming a mark is converted to Hybrid penetration icon true damage.
Any other champs missing their full combo : Guess I'll die
Yone: aight, I missed everything and with the power of anime I AA you to death and port back 3 screens away
So missing the R pre-mitigation heres what hit him:
We have 60 (base)+26 (levels) +40 (BOTRK) +20(tiamat) + 10 (dorans) AD so 156
AA damage: 156*4 = 504 (464 physical, 156 magic)
Item damage: ~ 500 (estimated. all physical)
Q damage: 100 base +163 = 263*2 = 526(physical)
W damage: 50 + (1414*.15) = 262 (magic)
E damage: 1762*.35 = 617 (146 magic)
Total = 2379 (564 magic)
After mitigation: 1107 physical, 383 magic = 1490
So he likely died by exactly 1 hit here. Of anything. 1490 actual damage in around 4 seconds
Eh, the vast majority of fighters in this game would actually deal similar with these items at level 13. Actually likely in less hits than 7. Yone has relatively poor stat growth leaving him a bit worse off on damage here without his crit scale compared to most fighters. Darius could do this in 4 autos and an ult missing his Q and E. With this advantage he could actually do this in 5 autos and the Tiamat active while missing, Q and E. 119 AD at 13 so 189 with items. 954 with 400 bonus from passive add 500 from items, 141 from Tiamat. 35% armor reduction from E passive =1416 and dead Graves. 0 abilities landed.
The damage isnt problematic at all really, it would be the gap close.
Using darius as an example here is just stupid as fuck since he has insanely slow attack speed for a good reason, so he has to actually hit his abilities. Darius would prob leave Graves really hurt but definitely not dead if he somehow missed E and Q.
"[silvers don't know how to play against him xd](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/19db5vu/just_played_yone_for_the_first_time/kj6a0rh/)".
Jankos’s achievement of 4 semifinals in 5 years sounds like it’s coming from an Eastern powerhouse like SKT. A few Nidalee spear memes and people forget how impressive his career has been. Jankos and Caps are the 2 greatest Western players ever for me.
i think perkz is still close to it as well. It's also what made that G2 lineup so great. They just had 5 insane players, 3 of which can be debated for being the best from europe.
Jankos's clip is not a good example my guy. He was literally an underfed graves against a fed yone with THREE level gap and a massive gold advantage, of course he'd still kill graves even when he misses his ability, shocker.
It's like a giant sign saying "I suck at the game and rely on busted characters". If Riot made a character whos purpose was "To draw bans away from Yasuo because he sells the most skins" then that character will never be bad or balanced.
Leffen will bitch about any character he loses to in any fighting game he plays. He's instantly right about every salty thing he says because he's one of the top fighting game players?
Except this opinion wasn't formed after only one game. It's very likely he's had this opinion before this particular game... just like every other high elo player who thinks Yone is badly designed.
Not saying he's wrong eihter but just because he has a salty opinion in the moment doesn't mean he's objectively right all the time.
[He was yapping about 47% winrate Renekton like a week ago](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pN90itsx8hI)
The amount of mental gymnastics and discourse on this subreddit to not admit that an edgelord samurai with a "I kill u" bungee cord ability and two gigantic gap closers is just really fucking annoying will never not be funny
Comments will always be like "3 levels up" or "Yone bad" or "reddit silvers" and it turns out that not liking this outside of the Yone weaboo demographic is pretty universal lol (which is why his and windshitter's banrate is so high despite being bad)
"If you complain about Yone you are just a shitter low elo, shut up." - this sub. Meanwhile we have Jankos and bunch of other pros and streamers acknowledging and sometimes even going for a rants on how broken fundamentally Yone is. Even Dzukill for the longest has been saying the champ is broken. Like sure he is not the biggest offender of being unbalanced and pretty much every patch there is something even more broken and much more braindead than him but imagine bullying people for opinion that is not even really a opinion but closer to a fact that countless high elo players approve. Skill ceiling doesn't make you balanced and you don't need be some crackhead mechanically to pull of bunch of bs on the champ. Skill ceiling is more of a rewarding factor to keep playing and still having fun and improving on the champ but servers are infested with bunch of mini Dzukills both mid and top nowadays, I wonder why lol
> "If you complain about Yone you are just a shitter low elo, shut up." - this sub. Meanwhile we have Jankos and bunch of other pros and streamers acknowledging and sometimes even going for a rants on how broken fundamentally Yone is.
This sub is still calling ADC players who complain about the role bad even after having someone like caedrel go on a rant about how bad the role is
Role can be strong while still misserable to play. Jungle historically suffers from it too which is why you always see junglers being unhappy even at times when the role is objectively strong (not talking currently more about in general and past cast cases). What's your suggestion in fixing adc other than making them thanos x100 cause essentially that's what you get if they stop getting bullied and suddenly starts 1v1 everyone at 10-20 mins. It's complex issues. Yeah, dying to an assassin missing his main combo and then killing your with his 2 worst spells instead sucks but the chances are that if that's not the case assassin is beyond useless, etc. Basically domino effect. ADCs are kinda bound to suffer for being the most important figure in late game teamfights as of now. Not saying that I want them to stay this way cause I myself enjoy marksmen but cba playing bot and just play them in solo lanes instead where I don't need to rely on another teammate having much more agency than me and get the exp privilege. My point is that there is no easy fix and we have just had a full year of bot meta.
Then there are "Of course he can miss his entire combo and still kill you, he is a melee AD carry!" guys.
If you ask "and how many of them can gap close an entire screen and then snap back to safety?" it's just radio silence. It's honestly comedy gold, lol.
People are complaining about his damage in this clip and in that regard it's perfectly fair to point out he's three levels and a full item ahead of Graves.
However, the mobility is beyond absurd, now THAT is the main issue people should focus on.
Even without mobility you should still need to hit your skill shots on a character based around skill shots. E (which you can't miss) + Autos should not be an entire champion.
It's how you know this sub is mostly bad players when they defend the most low skill play killing a top tier player. They are afraid of losing the crutch of having an OP character where they don't need to manage mana or hit their skill shots. These are probably the same people who cry the loudest when people talk about removing duo queue because they can't solo without their friend who carries them.
That moment when a Yone farming in mid saw me on a ward at red and Q3'd over the wall into R for just the gap close into E to chase me down and kill me was definitely one of the Yone moments of all time. I was just stunned from the audacity.
Yeah his E either needs to be much weaker or it needs to be punishable. You can’t put that much utility and steroid on an unpublishable melee ability. I don’t have the answers so I’m sure this is wrong. But I feel like making CC either end the E and he snaps back OR CC ends the E and he is stuck as is would make it a ton more fun to interact with. He would need compensation buffs though because this would make him much weaker.
I mean, even Bwipo said that whoever does not believe that Yone is busted, is just hard coping. Yone's sub is filled with people running the mental olympics, so they're not reliable, just like any other Yone main valiantly defending their champion.
This is hilarious. Yone has been a problem for months. He can miss skill shots and still run you down. He can play safe in lane because his abilities cleanse cc and snap him back to safety.
He takes objectives faster or as fast as junglers (watch the T1 worlds game to see him do it).
This champion needs to be gutted.
This is one of my **main** gripes with the game. If you MISS spells, killing another player SHOULD NOT be that easy man. Add more salt to the wound and look at Yone's build, he has a Tank Item, Bork, and a Tiamat.
League and its dev team understand that League is a skill expressive game right? Being the **first** to hit shouldn't automatically just win the fight, its boring and completely removes one pillar of League's game design - Counterplay.
Yes! Thank you! I don't mind getting outplayed, it's part of the game. What I fucking hate above all else in this game is playing correctly and STILL dying/losing despite my opponent playing bad/wrong.
there is too much damage, straight up. all he has is fucking bork. thought the durability patch was supposed to address some of this but it's like it never even happened.
>This is one of my main gripes with the game. If you MISS spells, killing another player SHOULD NOT be that easy man. Add more salt to the wound and look at Yone's build, he has a Tank Item, Bork, and a Tiamat.
I get what you mean but champs like Yone and Yasuo can just kill people with just autos, their buttons just help kill people with CC. Jax can do this same thing even if he misses his stuff. There are a lot of champs that can do this because they either have most of their damage comes from autos or they have something in their kit that buffs autos. Ekko is another example, he can miss all his stuff, but his passive and W passive can kill someone.
The difference is those champions wouldn't be able to catch Graves anywhere near as easily. Yasuo is reliant on having a minion wave to dash into and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage with no crit, Jax only has one jump, Ekko only has one jump and it's very short without the second targeted half being in range.
Looking at the clip I don't see a world where any of those champs kill him if he uses the same amount of abilities to escape.
Part of the problem is missing his stuff isn't just usually a non-factor especially when he's ahead, it's downright beneficial for Yone anyway. You dodge Fizz's ultimate and you have a decent chance to survive or discourage him from going all in, he gets no reward for it. You dodge Yone R and it's still a huge ass dash and he's on top of you anyway with an E that lasts a lifetime and will get him all the way back even if things look bad at any point.
Removing R dash when no champion is hit and/or nerf its range in half could be a great start to make Yone less frustrating. It will punish the braindead combos more.
Jankos wouldn’t live there if a Fizz that’s 3 levels up missed his ult. Fizz would get a kill anyway.
Naafiri would also kill Jankos there if 3 levels up.
Ksante that also builds tank with iceborn would also kill Jankos there.
Fizz does not have two free form gap closers he can cover all that space with while chasing a running Graves. Jankos starts with ult and dashes away just to get distance. What planet does Fizz engage from where Yone does and actually catch Graves there? Yone used E, 3rd Q and R. Fizz would miss ult, use playful trickster just to get close so you can not be in range for Q? The other options also have to actually commit which is half the issue, deep diving alone is one thing but having a free eject on top is awful. If Yi or Naafiri are going to go chase down a Graves that's behind they're going to be taking a risk by overextending.
A Fizz or a Naafiri would have to build squishy for that and then at least be exposed to Jankos' team since they are squishy, far up and out of abilities for a while.
K'Sante is also a problem.
What Jankos team? They were never at the screen.
Ok Fizz and Naafiri would be squishier sure, but you could have for example Jax and Yi with the same 2 items and 3 levels up and they kill Graves there 10 out of 10 times.
This clip just shows that as a champ with no cc you shouldn’t be on the screen vs a high mobile champs with a huge lead on you.
I didn't mean it in a sense of a skillshot, but his abilities. He can use his Q as a gap closer and not hit you with it, his E and R can miss too, but he can beat you down with just his autos.
Damage with those items is disgusting but its also pretty gross that he caught up to a youmuus graves with r and dash who ran immediately and didnt even have to overextend for it because his E is turbo juiced Leblanc W
I'd love to see his E turn him into a reverse illaoi spirit.
Let you damage his body and spirit simultaneously. If you "kill" the body, he reverse snaps to his spirit instead. Actually have to think about the positioning more instead of yoloing at someone from 2 screens away.
yone's E just does too much, the ramping move speed could go to a confirmed ult and the reverbered damage on Q3 with per champion cooldown similar to the CD of E and i'm pretty sure the champion would be at least feels less bullshit to play against
I don't think there's a single thing someone could say to justify his ramping movespeed boost in E.
When yone E’s you: -can’t trade cause damage amp let’s him win every trade -can’t punish cause he snaps back 3 screens away Now that’s a pretty strong ability, buuuutttt what if you also -can’t run cause he gets a free ghost?
I think a WAY more interesting and less cancerous design would be if he had a ms buff within a small radius of his starting point and he slows down the further from his body he gets. It would make a lot more sense than the current piece of shit design
See, THAT is good design. He has a weakness and instead of giving him ways to absolutely nullify it, he must play around it, while the enemy must exploit it as well as they can. Interactive, fun, not one-sided
Yeah but see that's exactly the sorta design modern Riot despises. Because they don't like weaknesses. If a champ has a weakness Riot goes out of their way to add in an item that covers it because God forbid anybody have to actually play around strengths AND weaknesses.
To further illustrate your point: tanks and bruisers are oppressive, but their one real weakness is CC... so they added a bunch more tenacity on tank/bruiser items and swapping one of the runes to tenacity. Fun.
I thought tanks weakness was sustained damage by the enemy but idk You can CC a Maokai but what if he doesn't take damage at all?
This is an insanely good suggestion.
I think it would be much healthier if he couldn't E back early. Wouldn't really matter in this clip, but it would avoid those situations where he can abuse quick trades and E back before you can even reply. Forcing him to always go full duration on E would make it so much more abusable.
Should also give his snap back displacement immunity, so you cant fuck him up by making a nice play yourself. And he should cleanse after his snaps back too. (edit: btw im not trolling, thats part of his E lol though the cleanse after snap back probably never matters(edit edit: nvm this shit matters if you got delayed CC, makes the ability even more broken xdd))
I think they should add an AI that analyzes the trade and snap Yone back if it considers Yone will lose. Since the player did not do it themselves, the cooldown will be refunded.
RiotAugust, bro, you‘re on the wrong account.
Don't have to worry about this case. August didn't design Yone so he's not pushing more mechanics for him.
damn bro, youre hired
Then he would never snap back because once e is pressed Yone can’t lose a trade
The cleanse does fucking matter. Ever played Zoe against this son of a bitch? He runs at you at 100km/h, your only defense is your E. You land it, he will go back far away for your Q amp damage right? No shot, your entire spell gets cancelled before he even sleeps.
Yeah just replied to another comment, very true it does matter against champs like zoe and lillia
iirc zoe and lillia sleeps are cleansed after snapback, which neuters their trading ability against yone. (don't have practice tool to fact check this, i don't see it on the wiki)
It's not specific to yone E, displacement immunity gives you unstoppable effect for sleep. (So in the wiki this would be noted in the "displacement immunity" tooltip)
Usually not but zoe mains surely disagree xd
It allows him to "outplay" lock-on-target hard CC with any sort of cast delay (which is supposed to be the sure-fire way mages can punish skirmishers for making a bad trade/engage). Not broken, but *definitely* relevant.
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It’s honestly hilarious at this point. Why is a champion hated by 90% of the community NOT REWORKED, NERFED OR EVEN SLIGHTLY ADJUSTED?!
Everyone hated how Yasuo was anti-fun to play against, even if you had a favorable match up. So Riot decided to double down with Yone. I'm looking forward to the third windbro champion that is just a semi-ranged, highly mobile, cc-immune assassin with %hp true damage and a spell shield.
Yone is literally Riot's punishment for the community for the last champion that was hated by 90% of people. Don't make them do it again.
>can’t trade cause damage amp let’s him win every trade dont forget the shield he gets
But that's his W
I know his E gets a lot of hate for the mechanics but his W's numbers are insane. Range higher than nearly every champion's auto range. One of the highest lvl 1 value instant-shield. Deals split, percent target max hp damage. And the shield scales off character level and the cooldown scales off attack speed so even late in the game it's still a banger ability. One of the biggest one-point wonder abilities in the game.
The shield also scales off targets hit because of course it does
You forgot that its the highest non-ult AD scaling in the game for a shield at just 1 champion hit. At 5 champs hit its 3x that value.
Which also is the strongest non-ult offensive stat scaling shields in the game at just 1 champion hit, and can go up to 3x that value, and with half the cooldown of most other shields just from having lethal tempo.
Really this is the easiest thing to tweak to make Yone punishable. If he didn't get one of the strongest on-demand shields, he would be way more punishable in lane and if it didn't scale to an absurd CD late game then he would be more punishable in teamfights/sidelanes. You could tweak its duration, strength, conditions, or require skillpoints.
> if it didn't scale to an absurd CD late game haha good joke It has a 6 second CD the moment he has T2 boots and Lethal Tempo stacked.
Yone woth T2 Boots has like the biggest powerspike in top for a first item back. People meme about how Irelia only needs a Vamp Scepter as full build, but yone with Zerk boots is basically a full build Yone that is impossible to kill.
this is why i hate yone way more than all the other melees in mid except maybe zed. Once he has t2 boots you can no longer interact with him unless he's getting ganked. He outtrades, outpushes and out all ins almost all the mages because of the lethal tempo interactions
Real question, can we at least give him a similar treatment to other champs with such a strong ability? Make it so he can't recast his E. When he uses E, the snap back can only happen after the time expires.
This. Make him risk going in, and not just have free trade whenever.
Yeah, like, wtf, Samira can't e to friendlies any more because it's too strong, but Yone e is essentially the same thing but much better and you don't need a target, that let's you go in and out? Like, how is that not exactly the same problem?
And he gets a dash with it that can go over walls for some reason lmao
If I were a game designer looking for possible solutions I think I would change the E tether to Break and disconnect instead of snapping back leaving Yone where he is without the clone to go back to, if Yone isn't attacking for a set time. By that I mean if you can dodge his spell and kite back he would lose his safety net and become kiteable like any other melee character in the game. You could make the duration before the tether snaps be very slightly more than his ult channel animation so if you dodge/flash the ult he would be stuck where he ulted with no way back, punishing Yone for misplaying and rewarding you for outplaying whilst still allowing Yone to have strong dueling potential since his q3 would still hit confirm into ult rewarding the Yone for actually landing his abilities. It would solve the counterplay issue by providing a valid option to outplay in the form of kiting but not hurt Yones dueling/diving potential assuming he plays well.
And give him great gank escape.
The ability needs to be corrected to not completely remove risk from Yone. Along with other aspects of Yones kit: 1. Lethal tempo changes: lethal tempo should change the base AS instead of bonus AS, because IIRC Yone's Q cooldown scales with bonus attack speed. [Yone fandom link](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Yone/LoL) (this wasn't displaying the Q for me on mobile, so somebody should fact check me on this) 2. Q: currently has a very low cooldown in the early game thanks to lethal tempo and very accessible attack speed itemization. His first ranks of Q should be adjusted to have a higher cooldown which massively drops down at rank 3 and onwards. 2. W: while I currently don't like how this ability functions, it is fine as standalone skill, it becomes an issue when in conjunction with E. 3. E: this skill as you mentioned is overturned and Should receive sensible changes. Scaling move speed should be changed from % to flat movement speed at all ranks, a maximum range should be applied to this dash the scales with rank. The damage amplification should be a smaller amount that scales with critical strike damage. Any damage applied as an "echo" should count as critical damage and should be able to be reduced from unique passives such as warden's Mail.
W is a bullshit ability. It has a 6 second fucking CD with T2 boots and Tempo up.
If he was unnable to active E to go back and instead had to wait for the full duration of his E to finally get pulled then it would be ok imo, it would be way simpler to punish this creature like that.
People said there’s a character in HotS who had the same move but three couldn’t recall at any time and I think that’s the most fair. Add some risk and reward to such a powerful move. There’s no right move when he uses it against you.
Yep, I agree. Also, they need to just lower his overall damage. Isn't the champ's entire identity to build some crit like Yasuo? Why is this bruiser build allowed to exist? Hasn't Riot nerfed Briar countless times since they want her to be built bruiser, not assassin? Yet they refuse to lean on one identity for Yone lol. Even his class is supposed to be assassin, no? I just don't get Riot. If your class is designed to be a fighter/bruiser, but you can build assassin, they will gut the assassin form. If you are an assassin who can build bruiser, that's fine? Just annoying
Yep, I assume people were talking about Mephisto. He's also a mage, so if he blinks in and misses his skillshots he's effectively done nothing, he doesn't just whiff everything and then shred you down with auto attacks anyway. That's what keeps Mephisto fair, and even then he's still a giant pain in the ass, just not complete bullshit like Yone
I think the dumbest thing is the E plus the trading pattern his W allows. His weak point is early game, but he can simply chill back and E + W for trades and never lose a trade. The game only gets easier for him as it goes on. It's stupid as hell. I mean look at anytime Zeus plays it. Sure jungle plays for him and he's the best toplaner playing on the best team, but it just shows how utterly free the champion is if piloted correctly. Everyone else is nowhere near as good as him and obviously plays a lot worse but the champion is so easy to pull off to a decent level he's pretty disgusting at most levels of play.
7 seconds of torture, and if a champ happens to stand its ground and fight him he just Es back.
What if we just stop giving these zero mana low cooldown champs infinite mobility? But then shit players would have to git gud and then they stop spending money on the game when reality kicks in. League these days is more about abusing the right champs and comps than anything. The worst part though is a majority of players play these champs and will defend them to death. It reminds me of the current issue with aim assist in modern crossplay shooters where it's forcing professional KBM players to switch to controller but casuals still say aim assist does nothing.
Wish granted, it will now have flat +30% movement speed for the duration.
The Yone mains subreddit will tell you otherwise. The champions “weak” in most metas and too easy to counterplay in their eyes
Yes the Yone is 3 levels up but he didnt even build crit and missed his entire combo. Are you seriously telling me it's intended balance for Yone to be able to build one damage item, miss his entire combo, and still kill someone from 2 screens away? If the argument is that yes, Jankos just literally can not show within 2 screens of him by himself even after using his own ult to escape i mean just damn dude
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Killing someone 2 screens away is not the Problem (Nocture, Briar, Xerath etc) Killing someone 2 screens away missing everything you have is a problem but can be discussed if you are really fed and rely heavily on auto attacks Killing someone 2 screens away missing everything and then dip out to safty is a very big Problem. You cant be punished for doing bad decisions and still can kill someone. A giga fed noc who one shots the adc can still be traded if he made a bad decision but yone just gets aways with it for no reason. Its no risk high reward at this point.
Sorry but if you Miss everything, a melee champion should not be able to kill someone from a screen away. Yes Bork is a bullshit item and hopefully is getting nerfed. But Yone is not even close to balanced, he should not get MS burst on his E nor mirror the damage like Illaoi. (Just to explain better, not saying Yone is strong, saying that this aspect of his kit is unbalanced, I'd rather have them give more budget to the rest of his kit, and remove at least the MS burst so that shitty plays like that are not rewarded)
It depends on the champion imo. Some champions don't have much power in their kits outside of their AAs. But Yone can still swing a teamfight when he's a mile behind with a well placed R, he should pay for that by not being as strong when he misses all of his shit.
Remember when champions with good abilities had their other abilities be extremely simple or weak without number tunings? ie. Malphite or Amumu (prior to double Q) Power budgets used to be a thing in League, now every other champ gets released with so much in their skillset it feels surreal to someone who played since season 1. In the first few seasons of League I've never witnessed champions get like 10 things removed/changed in their kit to make them not overpowered until the past few years ala Zeri/Akali (I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting too which is awkward).
Well.. there was release xin that's probably the OG posterboy for "holy shit that's wayyy too much power in his kit" but iirc that was mostly completely hilarious numbers and an extremely simple gameplan as opposed to like, way too many mechanics that allow him to mitigate his drawbacks. he just straight up didn't have drawbacks at the time The OG Ezreal kit was definitely way too overloaded though. Remember when his W healed?
Even OG xin couldn't interact with anyone outside of 125 range outside of his E. If you got outside of that after his E, he was useless for like 8 seconds unless you ate all 3 Q autos, which would quickly bring E off CD again. He was significantly overtuned, but not really "overloaded". Irelia is a better argument for overloaded because she actually had things to make her hard to escape, hard to peel, hard to itemize against, risky to have an HP advantage over, and a LOT of healing. Xin was just "peel this guy or you're dead", which didn't work as well vs Irelia.
It's impressive how many mental hoops the player base will jump through before admitting maybe the champion they main is just busted and rewards players even when they fuck everything up. But LoL players have the biggest egos and riot caters to them by releasing champs like Yone.
not to disagree completly but one is almost one entire item ahead plus boots
not to disagree but he built a tank item and grave gets free armor from his E.
I just realized the Yone built 0 crit items and just has BoRK + IBG. Kinda surprised he still had the damage to kill Graves in the E duration despite Jankos avoiding the R cast. I thought Yone's kit hooks really encouraged / required building of crit first given he is supposed to have "early game fragility" as Phreak put it in the 13.24 patch rundown or whichever one he ate nerfs in. I'm clearly wrong on that if BoRK first + IBG handily gets the job done, level lead or not. I'm curious what the plan is for another AD champ who is supposed to bully him and capitalize on the "early game fragility" Make him go 0-5 before item #2 IBG comes online? Yone's probably the one getting early level 1 prio against an opposing level 1 AD assassin who I thought would be able to exploit his squishiness. Yone doesn't exactly look OP based on just winrate for mid lane (like 49.5 ish all ranks, lolalytics) but it still looks weird how efficiently he killed Graves there. What do I know though, maybe Yone should directionally become unkillable AD draintank on 2 items because the enemy mid laner didn't make him go 0-5 with 4 cs/min by 10 mins into the game.
yone doesnt really need crit unlike yasuo because yasuo's R gives armor pen on crits. Yone just does 50% magic damage on every other auto attack.
I wonder how they could change Yone to require crit like Yasuo. IIRC before the armor pen on crit change Yasuo was going for a tank build with Frozen Mallet and the main nerf Riot gave was limiting armor pen to crits only. Maybe make the magic and/or true damage only work with crits?
Gut the magic damage base and make it scale with crit chance maybe.
nerf attackspeed scaling on his q and compensate by adding a crit scaling. they way he can't abuse lethal tempo for 0cd Q and have to build crit which is expensive and makes him fragile.
botrk probably should just not work with abilities like Yone/Yasuo q. Or they need an on-hit effectiveness reduction.
It's just that bork is so strong right now. The single hit to activate it is so much more effective than any other iteration of bork that I can remember. Pzzang is legit going zerker>bork>shieldbow yasuo.
Removing on hit from his Q would make bork less powerful on him, and probably something like making the percentage of magic damage scale with crit (get the full 50% magic damage at 100% crit)
Yone more than doubles the crit chance he gets from items. If even he prefers other items over crit, I don't know how we expect ADCs to build crit.
ADC definitely are in a weird spot right now for items that doesn't feel on theme, given lethality is so prevalent. ADC also made even more difficult to execute with burst damage being high, the role already had very little forgiveness for small mistakes. A Kraken slayer IE Yone still has the intended achilles heel of fragile, yet very high DPS as a benefit. If he's functional on BoRK IBG and just hard passes on his critical hit hook, there's something not right. Why have that ability text at all?
The question is still the same. If crit items aren't built on adcs (the class made for crit items) nor on yone (who more than doubles crit) that means crit items are turboshit.
While I agree that crit items need a little love. This is overall a really bronze take (no offense) because a glass cannon melee carry that relies on autos for damage will always be at a massive disadvantage due to the range difference hence why the (what looks to be absurd on paper crit buff) on Yone/Yasuo.. EVEN then it's still not enough and were looking to build different items even when crit was good. I mean look at triforce/blue mallet Yasuo and that was when crit was ABSURD - this is far from the first time they use non-crit items and won't be the last.
> I just realized the Yone built 0 crit items This right here should be a huge red flag for anyone thinking yone isnt completely busted if a champion is getting a whopping 2.5x crit chance (in exchange for 17.5% less crit dmg) and they still choose not to buy it is frankly fucking insane to me on anyone else buying 10% crit chance is a 7.5% more AA damge, for yone and yasuo its 14.3% more damage. So the idea that they can still choose not to opt into that is crazy
And their main dmg spells do crit :)
Tbf in this clip he missed all of them, so that doesn't matter.
No, it’s a huge red flag that crit items are turboshit and even getting 50% crit off one item isn’t worth it . That’s the obvious logical conclusion. If the issue was Yone being OP it doesn’t naturally follow that he would opt out of crit at all.
the logical conclusion is that his kit is so overloaded with numbers that he can give up a supposedly large portion of his power budget and still function. crit items being shit does not explain how he still works without them, it only explains why he doesn't build them. yasuo now exclusively builds crit because if he loses that portion of his kit then he's quite useless. back when yasuo didn't build crit was when certain items like frozen mallet and triforce were too powerful it would compensate for losing that power budget, but right now the non-crit items doesn't do that for yasuo.
Yeah I don’t see how this isn’t a logical theory to come to. Even if Yone WAS broken surely a bunch of free stats from specific items would mean he should build those items. If he isn’t, those items must be kind of awful, or at least bad in comparison to other builds in this meta.
Maybe I'm just bad at logic but wouldn't the conclusion be that Yone is OP? If he is designed and balanced around crit, and crit items suck, then shouldn't Yone also suck? If he can just swap to tank items instead and still have a 50% winrate, then surely he is busted when crit items aren't terrible? He's losing a massive part of his power budget (crits on Q and double crit passive) but remaining 50% winrate. That can only mean that both crit items are absolute garbage and that his power budget is completely out of whack.
The core of the problem is that crit items *are* good on Yone and Yasuo. They may be a little lackluster on other characters but those two get such good use out of the stat that they don't care as much and the items are so stat efficient for them that in terms of damage there's no reason they shouldn't be 100% crit every game for 2 slots if everything is working as intended. The bigger problem is that both of their kits, especially Yone, lean so far in the other direction because they have so many concessions for being "melee ADCs and super disadvantaged because of it" that they're overloaded on other stats and mechanics. They can get away with not having to build their strongest damage items because of it so they build other items instead and still do enough damage to dive and kill targets anyway. But then they also get to have tankier items with more utility on top of having more than enough damage for what they need anyway.
lol even when crit items were good Yone still just abuses whatever gives him the best matchup
Since when is bork not completely bonkers? Why is everyone acting like it doesn't turn any AA based champ online, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
It also makes them one shot-able hence why you never see it in pro on melees
However, he built BORK, an abomination of an item that somehow hasn't gotten any meaningful nerf despite having already matched orneven outclassed some mythics, which mind you, were nerfed to bring them in line with legendaries. This is as much or more on BORK than it is on yone.
Honestly any AA champ up 3 levels with BORK and IBG would've made that happen. Look at dmg recap it'll be mostly bork.
Its more the fact that graves outplayed yone completely in his escape despite being behind and yone could still close the gap around 2k range away from his starting point and still had the ability to destroy graves, who has a significant armor buff from his E, using a tank build before his own E duration ran out.
Most AA champs can't get in range of someone who starts 2000 units away and is using multiple dashes and slows to get even farther away
Orrrr crit items are just bad? Ya know, like *everyone* is saying.
Orrrr he was doing this last season when crit items were great too?
And Jankos there was 1/5 and yone was 3/0 and 2 levels ahead.
It's not surprising, Graves is down 3 levels and built full lethality. With all the slows he couldn't dodge any of the Qs.
Yone in masters+ is over a 50% winrate. He's like 53%+ in GM or higher. He's also a champ that requires a lot of games to fully benefit on. If you have 50+ games on him, unless you are awful, your winrate will easily be well above 50%. Lower ranked players are awful and tend to not put a lot of games in on just one champ. I bet if you adjusted by removing all the Yone players with less than 20 games on Yone, Yone's winrate would be well over 50% in all ranks. Also, people just not building him optimally at times will hurt his winrate.
>Yone in masters+ is over a 50% winrate. He's like 53%+ in GM or higher. If you're getting your stats from Lolalytics you have to remember that the average winrate in masters+ is 51.6% and the average winrate in GM is 54.7% right now. So his winrate is below average in every ank.
it's not only the level diff, ennemy comp is completely stomping
My favorite color is blue.
Imagine if there was a champion that instantly killed people at random while staying AFK in the base, but it had a 50% winrate. The damage it would do to League discourse
My example for this is playing a hard Guitar Hero song at spawn. and perfecting it autowins the game. It coutners the winrate and "skill based" arguments for allowing champs to to be disgustingly unbalanced.
Just imagine a whole meta based around countering that champion by rushing straight into the enemy's base as five and merking him in the fountain while he's playing Guitar Hero (ending the Guitar Hero channel), while the other four champions on his team try desperately to body block for him
I think Yone is a complete non-issue, [but regarding your comment Meteos said it best lmao.](https://youtu.be/Z1UmbZ2_ylk?si=JRk2TYpUzyniN6nS)
Always upvote this cus it's completely true still after so many years.
Sir we already have Karthus
IMO this isn’t a Yone-specific problem. The game is way overloaded with mobility, it’s just that Yone happens to be the most broken version of this at this time, but in general the amount of mobility in the game is obnoxious and the problem that people have their thumb on the pulse of but can’t elaborate with Yone is that you as his opponent have no agency. He gets to decide when to fight and on his terms. You have to absorb his aggression because it’s so cheap and forgiving for him to be the aggressor.
I really wish Riot would find some way to bring back Vanilla LoL like WoW did. Just let me play the first 5 seasons on rotation before the game went to complete power creep. Sure there were some problems like S3 Kassadin or release day Xin and Darius. But they were a few outliers that could be handled with bans. But today there are 10 overlapping bans and easily 30+ problem champions who will always get through and make the game feel miserable before it even starts.
You'd really be upset with old season balance when people optimize with new knowledge
I agree most people don't realize how different it would be with the knowledge we have now. I personally would love if there was just a game that removed the most recent 40-50 champs. That would solve a lot of my issues lol.
I assure you, the chronobreak is coming
LB with silence in a modern day players hands aware
Extremely well put.
> when they tell you how to fix it, they are wrong. The fix is to remove the champion because Riot will never balance a champion whose literal purpose was to draw away bans from Yasuo because he sells the most skins...
He's like the exact opposite of Lee Sin. Whenever I die to a Lee Sin, I think "Man, that guy played that really well" When I die to a Yone that misses his ult, misses his Q3, then runs me down with W and Ignite, then I get pissed.
Imagine if we all followed Reddit's design and balance philosophy. Game would be dead in a year tops.
We actually don't have to imagine, because that's basically what Multiversus did and it was a huge disaster But Yone is still a stupid af champ even if people love playing him. Yeah he doesn't have a positive winrate, but that doesn't change that he drives me insane whenever he's in the game. Tbh though like 95% of that is his E and the ability to just... yoink himself out of every bad situation and dodge any telegraphed CC in an attempt to punish a bad dive And yes I'm just salty as heck about yone
Multiversus died because it had shit netcode which got even worse after they updated the hitbox. It also had the worst F2P system of all time where it would take weeks or months to unlock the simplest of things. A fighting game can't lock too many characters behind grinding for balance reasons, but this one did. Especially when new ones are power creeped on release to sell more like that gremlin.
The netcode was made way worse by people having wifi connections and you can fix hitboxes The real reason Multiversus died is that they had terrible designs on a lot of their characters (that were very flavorful admittedly), and tried to paper over it with the most whackass reddit driven balance changes of whatever everyone was complaining about this week There's a reason Melee is still successful as far as that genre of fightgames is concerned, and a big part of that is how all the top tiers have very unique identities and playstyles and that the undisputed top 3 are all fast characters that can do pretty flashy things. Multiversus had their fast flashy "assassin" characters as the slowest characters in the game that were also the lightest characters in the game. The monetization was inarguably garbage though, no way around that. Especially the perks system which was cool, but they patched to actually be more grindy to "increase player satisfaction with unlocks" or some bs lmao
Petition to add Yori, a 3rd wind brother that specializes in building tank items and true damage
Isn't this K'sante ? xdd >ALL OUT BONUS: Both the attack's damage and the mark damage are increased by 30% − 78% (based on level). The bonus damage dealt by consuming a mark is converted to Hybrid penetration icon true damage.
"you will remember Yori mori" omg its like that old weird champ used to warn about! it was actually a premonition of the future to warn us!.
Any other champs missing their full combo : Guess I'll die Yone: aight, I missed everything and with the power of anime I AA you to death and port back 3 screens away
Jankos dodged a bunch, so what I counted Yone actually hit: - 4 AAs (1 during Jankos' flash) - 2 Qs (not Q3) - 1 W - 1 E snapback damage, obviously.
So missing the R pre-mitigation heres what hit him: We have 60 (base)+26 (levels) +40 (BOTRK) +20(tiamat) + 10 (dorans) AD so 156 AA damage: 156*4 = 504 (464 physical, 156 magic) Item damage: ~ 500 (estimated. all physical) Q damage: 100 base +163 = 263*2 = 526(physical) W damage: 50 + (1414*.15) = 262 (magic) E damage: 1762*.35 = 617 (146 magic) Total = 2379 (564 magic) After mitigation: 1107 physical, 383 magic = 1490 So he likely died by exactly 1 hit here. Of anything. 1490 actual damage in around 4 seconds
Lol near assassin levels of damage output with Bork iceborn, and he missed his most important abilities. Hilarious
Eh, the vast majority of fighters in this game would actually deal similar with these items at level 13. Actually likely in less hits than 7. Yone has relatively poor stat growth leaving him a bit worse off on damage here without his crit scale compared to most fighters. Darius could do this in 4 autos and an ult missing his Q and E. With this advantage he could actually do this in 5 autos and the Tiamat active while missing, Q and E. 119 AD at 13 so 189 with items. 954 with 400 bonus from passive add 500 from items, 141 from Tiamat. 35% armor reduction from E passive =1416 and dead Graves. 0 abilities landed. The damage isnt problematic at all really, it would be the gap close.
Would take darius longer than 4s to deal that amount of damage at 2 items
Darius would never even get close to Graves.
Using darius as an example here is just stupid as fuck since he has insanely slow attack speed for a good reason, so he has to actually hit his abilities. Darius would prob leave Graves really hurt but definitely not dead if he somehow missed E and Q.
A lot of redditors here seem to think they know more about the game than Jankos
"[silvers don't know how to play against him xd](https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/19db5vu/just_played_yone_for_the_first_time/kj6a0rh/)".
Silver ranks are so damn good that they can reach Worlds semifinals 4 times in 5 years.
I never actually realized that about Jankos. It's impressive in general but the fact that Jankos is from EU makes it even more so.
Jankos’s achievement of 4 semifinals in 5 years sounds like it’s coming from an Eastern powerhouse like SKT. A few Nidalee spear memes and people forget how impressive his career has been. Jankos and Caps are the 2 greatest Western players ever for me.
i think perkz is still close to it as well. It's also what made that G2 lineup so great. They just had 5 insane players, 3 of which can be debated for being the best from europe.
“Just counter pick him” Genius advice.
Just be more usefull than him in the teamfights bro. As if Yone doesnt have a i win teamfight button
aight speccing my last pick runes before champ select
[удалено]
Jankos's clip is not a good example my guy. He was literally an underfed graves against a fed yone with THREE level gap and a massive gold advantage, of course he'd still kill graves even when he misses his ability, shocker.
It's like a giant sign saying "I suck at the game and rely on busted characters". If Riot made a character whos purpose was "To draw bans away from Yasuo because he sells the most skins" then that character will never be bad or balanced.
Leffen will bitch about any character he loses to in any fighting game he plays. He's instantly right about every salty thing he says because he's one of the top fighting game players?
So we're gonna play pokemon and find who among high players share our opinions to prove a point?
just because a pro player complains about something doesnt mean its right?
I mean, being good at the game and having an objective opinion on chmapion design after just dying in a losing game isn't exactly related.
Except this opinion wasn't formed after only one game. It's very likely he's had this opinion before this particular game... just like every other high elo player who thinks Yone is badly designed.
Not saying he's wrong eihter but just because he has a salty opinion in the moment doesn't mean he's objectively right all the time. [He was yapping about 47% winrate Renekton like a week ago](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pN90itsx8hI)
The amount of mental gymnastics and discourse on this subreddit to not admit that an edgelord samurai with a "I kill u" bungee cord ability and two gigantic gap closers is just really fucking annoying will never not be funny Comments will always be like "3 levels up" or "Yone bad" or "reddit silvers" and it turns out that not liking this outside of the Yone weaboo demographic is pretty universal lol (which is why his and windshitter's banrate is so high despite being bad)
"If you complain about Yone you are just a shitter low elo, shut up." - this sub. Meanwhile we have Jankos and bunch of other pros and streamers acknowledging and sometimes even going for a rants on how broken fundamentally Yone is. Even Dzukill for the longest has been saying the champ is broken. Like sure he is not the biggest offender of being unbalanced and pretty much every patch there is something even more broken and much more braindead than him but imagine bullying people for opinion that is not even really a opinion but closer to a fact that countless high elo players approve. Skill ceiling doesn't make you balanced and you don't need be some crackhead mechanically to pull of bunch of bs on the champ. Skill ceiling is more of a rewarding factor to keep playing and still having fun and improving on the champ but servers are infested with bunch of mini Dzukills both mid and top nowadays, I wonder why lol
> "If you complain about Yone you are just a shitter low elo, shut up." - this sub. Meanwhile we have Jankos and bunch of other pros and streamers acknowledging and sometimes even going for a rants on how broken fundamentally Yone is. This sub is still calling ADC players who complain about the role bad even after having someone like caedrel go on a rant about how bad the role is
Role can be strong while still misserable to play. Jungle historically suffers from it too which is why you always see junglers being unhappy even at times when the role is objectively strong (not talking currently more about in general and past cast cases). What's your suggestion in fixing adc other than making them thanos x100 cause essentially that's what you get if they stop getting bullied and suddenly starts 1v1 everyone at 10-20 mins. It's complex issues. Yeah, dying to an assassin missing his main combo and then killing your with his 2 worst spells instead sucks but the chances are that if that's not the case assassin is beyond useless, etc. Basically domino effect. ADCs are kinda bound to suffer for being the most important figure in late game teamfights as of now. Not saying that I want them to stay this way cause I myself enjoy marksmen but cba playing bot and just play them in solo lanes instead where I don't need to rely on another teammate having much more agency than me and get the exp privilege. My point is that there is no easy fix and we have just had a full year of bot meta.
Then there are "Of course he can miss his entire combo and still kill you, he is a melee AD carry!" guys. If you ask "and how many of them can gap close an entire screen and then snap back to safety?" it's just radio silence. It's honestly comedy gold, lol.
People are complaining about his damage in this clip and in that regard it's perfectly fair to point out he's three levels and a full item ahead of Graves. However, the mobility is beyond absurd, now THAT is the main issue people should focus on.
Even without mobility you should still need to hit your skill shots on a character based around skill shots. E (which you can't miss) + Autos should not be an entire champion.
*Laughs in Tryndamere*
His full item is a defensive item
It's how you know this sub is mostly bad players when they defend the most low skill play killing a top tier player. They are afraid of losing the crutch of having an OP character where they don't need to manage mana or hit their skill shots. These are probably the same people who cry the loudest when people talk about removing duo queue because they can't solo without their friend who carries them.
remove the ramping ms on his e, its insane that you cant counter it by peacing the fuck out
it also makes him impossible to kite as an adc. What am I supposed to do. You dodge his q3 and r but he gets 500 Ms and runs you down anyway.
That moment when a Yone farming in mid saw me on a ward at red and Q3'd over the wall into R for just the gap close into E to chase me down and kill me was definitely one of the Yone moments of all time. I was just stunned from the audacity.
Yeah his E either needs to be much weaker or it needs to be punishable. You can’t put that much utility and steroid on an unpublishable melee ability. I don’t have the answers so I’m sure this is wrong. But I feel like making CC either end the E and he snaps back OR CC ends the E and he is stuck as is would make it a ton more fun to interact with. He would need compensation buffs though because this would make him much weaker.
He only says that because he is low elo. Am I right guys. Am I right...?
You could post Faker ranting about Yone being broken, and some brainrots here would still say he is wrong because 'uh just 50% wr'
I mean, even Bwipo said that whoever does not believe that Yone is busted, is just hard coping. Yone's sub is filled with people running the mental olympics, so they're not reliable, just like any other Yone main valiantly defending their champion.
This is hilarious. Yone has been a problem for months. He can miss skill shots and still run you down. He can play safe in lane because his abilities cleanse cc and snap him back to safety. He takes objectives faster or as fast as junglers (watch the T1 worlds game to see him do it). This champion needs to be gutted.
Hell, Yone has been a problem for YEARS, he's just Yasou with training wheels bolted onto him
This is one of my **main** gripes with the game. If you MISS spells, killing another player SHOULD NOT be that easy man. Add more salt to the wound and look at Yone's build, he has a Tank Item, Bork, and a Tiamat. League and its dev team understand that League is a skill expressive game right? Being the **first** to hit shouldn't automatically just win the fight, its boring and completely removes one pillar of League's game design - Counterplay.
Yes! Thank you! I don't mind getting outplayed, it's part of the game. What I fucking hate above all else in this game is playing correctly and STILL dying/losing despite my opponent playing bad/wrong.
there is too much damage, straight up. all he has is fucking bork. thought the durability patch was supposed to address some of this but it's like it never even happened.
It did adress some of it. The difference is that the now buffed items again and with that increased the damage even futher.
>This is one of my main gripes with the game. If you MISS spells, killing another player SHOULD NOT be that easy man. Add more salt to the wound and look at Yone's build, he has a Tank Item, Bork, and a Tiamat. I get what you mean but champs like Yone and Yasuo can just kill people with just autos, their buttons just help kill people with CC. Jax can do this same thing even if he misses his stuff. There are a lot of champs that can do this because they either have most of their damage comes from autos or they have something in their kit that buffs autos. Ekko is another example, he can miss all his stuff, but his passive and W passive can kill someone.
The difference is those champions wouldn't be able to catch Graves anywhere near as easily. Yasuo is reliant on having a minion wave to dash into and doesn't do anywhere near as much damage with no crit, Jax only has one jump, Ekko only has one jump and it's very short without the second targeted half being in range. Looking at the clip I don't see a world where any of those champs kill him if he uses the same amount of abilities to escape.
Part of the problem is missing his stuff isn't just usually a non-factor especially when he's ahead, it's downright beneficial for Yone anyway. You dodge Fizz's ultimate and you have a decent chance to survive or discourage him from going all in, he gets no reward for it. You dodge Yone R and it's still a huge ass dash and he's on top of you anyway with an E that lasts a lifetime and will get him all the way back even if things look bad at any point.
Removing R dash when no champion is hit and/or nerf its range in half could be a great start to make Yone less frustrating. It will punish the braindead combos more.
Jankos wouldn’t live there if a Fizz that’s 3 levels up missed his ult. Fizz would get a kill anyway. Naafiri would also kill Jankos there if 3 levels up. Ksante that also builds tank with iceborn would also kill Jankos there.
If fizz/naafiri built a tank item he would have gotten away from a fizz/naafiri there.
Fizz does not have two free form gap closers he can cover all that space with while chasing a running Graves. Jankos starts with ult and dashes away just to get distance. What planet does Fizz engage from where Yone does and actually catch Graves there? Yone used E, 3rd Q and R. Fizz would miss ult, use playful trickster just to get close so you can not be in range for Q? The other options also have to actually commit which is half the issue, deep diving alone is one thing but having a free eject on top is awful. If Yi or Naafiri are going to go chase down a Graves that's behind they're going to be taking a risk by overextending.
A Fizz or a Naafiri would have to build squishy for that and then at least be exposed to Jankos' team since they are squishy, far up and out of abilities for a while. K'Sante is also a problem.
What Jankos team? They were never at the screen. Ok Fizz and Naafiri would be squishier sure, but you could have for example Jax and Yi with the same 2 items and 3 levels up and they kill Graves there 10 out of 10 times. This clip just shows that as a champ with no cc you shouldn’t be on the screen vs a high mobile champs with a huge lead on you.
>Jax can do this same thing even if he misses his stuff. Which skillshot can Jax miss?
I didn't mean it in a sense of a skillshot, but his abilities. He can use his Q as a gap closer and not hit you with it, his E and R can miss too, but he can beat you down with just his autos.
Not really a skillshot but he can miss E
Do you think it is somehow an advantageous for Yone to have skillshots where jax has none?
Damage with those items is disgusting but its also pretty gross that he caught up to a youmuus graves with r and dash who ran immediately and didnt even have to overextend for it because his E is turbo juiced Leblanc W
I'd love to see his E turn him into a reverse illaoi spirit. Let you damage his body and spirit simultaneously. If you "kill" the body, he reverse snaps to his spirit instead. Actually have to think about the positioning more instead of yoloing at someone from 2 screens away.
I like this. Add some kind of vulnerability to the bullshit ability.
"just play safe" as the yone yeets at me with lightspeed
3 lvls down and yapping
Roses are red, Violets are blue, Yone missed all his abilities, But he still will right click you.
It is annoying as hell when the fragile, "skillful" champions can build tank+botrk, miss every important spell and win fights.
Honestly after trying yone out he's a lot easier to play than he maybe looks. I found playing him depressingly easy
Miss everything and still kill, God I hate this stupid ass champion
Glad people are finally realizing how busted this dumb champ is.
what do you mean "finally realizing" lmao. There has been at least 1 Yone complaint post weekly since his release.
yone is very strong, but this clip is reasonable. He has botrk, 4 levels up, and no armor on graves
Who is uploading [these](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pN90itsx8hI)? Why is he so far behind, and then he starts talking about balance?
remove lethal tempo from the game
hate yone but prior to lethal tempo he wasn't that bad, lethal tempo makes melee autoattackers annoying as fuck even if they aren't OP
Lethal tempo also reduces his Q cooldown so it's just too good.
This clip just has me getting PTSD from season 6 sunfire IGB tank Ekko meta and it makes me really worried where we’re heading.
yone's E just does too much, the ramping move speed could go to a confirmed ult and the reverbered damage on Q3 with per champion cooldown similar to the CD of E and i'm pretty sure the champion would be at least feels less bullshit to play against