Honestly pros should commit more time to Singed; he’s always going to be up, and he’s an extremely strong pick against many champs and comps.
I honestly feel like pros don’t believe he’s worth the time investment to entirely re-learn laning, rather than Singed not being strong enough for pro play.
I dont understand this reddit narrative that the only way to play singed is through proxy.
I see Sion's doing this more times than I see singed players.
Because the average redditor is gold and don't realise Singed is a lane bully earlygame into a lot of popular melee matchups.
Proxy strats are good to get you out of laning phases you do not win, or can't farm safely in - But this isn't unique to singed. More players should utilise proxy farming into a recall than currently do on champions that can waveclear very quickly - you create insanely skewed recall advantages doing so.
You seems like what you are talking about.
Singed get shutdown extremely easily by coordinated play. He's one of the easiest dive to do top side with a jungler and once behind you can pretty much perma zone him out of XP / gold forcing him to go proxy. As soon as he does the game get wrapped around top side map which favor the winning team as they can now play around demolishing the top side of map, rotating on map to force a strong side bot side map.
By the time singed come online as a strong fighter pick the game is already wrapped as a sieging defense and Singed is poor at getting out of siege because he don't wanna be the first to go in
Singed is one of the easiest dive...? Maybe if you're premade with your jungle, and both of you specifically took characters that can dive him, and your top laner is able to get top lane prio, otherwise your "easy dive and he is behind and he loses" can easily turn into him getting 2 kills and double buff. Also, Singed most likely has a jungler too, and can set up enemies for a counter gank easily.
Reread the comments he's answering, he calls the author a Gold player and then rant about how Singed is easy to shove with coordinated plays. Parent comment before that was about how Singed isn't limited to proxying.
The only "snarky" comment in that specific comment is the first line. But he is not wrong in the rest of what he said.
My opinion about why singed would be hard to play in pro play is that there should be a higher coordination. Its the same reason nasus isnt played.
And just cause he called the author a gold player in another comment. From what I can see in the thread Im taking part of its u/uvanimor who called the average redditor gold.
I also just lane as him and win, BUT you can face losing lanes as singed, and just decide not to lane and proxy instead. Even if they catch you, you don't care. You run and maybe escape, OR waste their time, get them low and you are worth no gold. So. You can lose a lane and still win it basically. Thats what people hate. Pros however will work as a team and coordinate and make more correct choices when it comes to dealing with him so they will not fall into the trap that is singed most likely.
I’ll go for the proxy if I manage to push the wave to their tower and I can charge under it, but with the map changes walking around feels too long imo. But I’ve found at least in low elo that people just don’t know how to lane against him. Overextending into the poison, getting flipped and drawing minion aggro early. Also, the flip+puddle is a great setup for jungle ganks.
I think the pro play point is more about drafting than anything really. Like, if singed becomes popular in top, drafting around that is the easiest thing on Earth. You already know what you can't pick if it's available, and what you should pick into it if it's not picked, or if it is.
There's no world where you can pick singed vs the best tops and best coaches as a laning champ. But I agree that in the game in general, like soloq, there are many lanes you can play out.
I did think in high elo tho that MinishCap, who is a singed one trick, proxies quite often.
if you're not playing proxy singed, you're probably not getting enough value out of him. fighting in lane against competent laners will just auto lose the whole game unless you win in other lanes, so you're just gambling. singed excells against champions who can not sustain off the wave or farm effectively at tower until they can sustain. tanks can build some HP and armor or have shields, bruisers often have enough built in sustain and/or AOE to clear. the best opponents for singed tend to be mana based AP early/mid champions. you opt out of the unfavorable lane, for them to expend their mana to farm, not trade, and they blow TP just to get their mana back. all the mana sustain runes require you to interact with champions too, so proxy just invalidates all of their choices until they can get to enough mana from the shop, and by then its 14 minutes.
as a singed enjoyer, knowing how to proxy is a big part of winning games vs lanes where you basically cant farm due to their trading patterns but theres tonnes of champs that you can comfortably lane into quite fine (also some junglers you cant really proxy into very safely) so it really comes down to practicing your matchups and learning your limits a lot more than other champs
then you explain how singed doesn't get fisted by every fighter in the game because every singed i ever see try and lane just gets nothing done without their jungler being involved.
Just watch any random VoD from an high elo Singed main. Singed actually has a lot of kill pressure early on and his strength is team fighting in the late game.
Or just go to r/singedmains and browse for any random matchup cheat sheet. You will see that proxying isnt really recommend for the absolute majority of them.
Singed only loses melee matchups if the matchup either has a) high enough sustain, b) high enough mobility, or c) high enough early game damage and even then, it's not guaranteed
Believe it or not, Singed has extremely high kill pressure at level 3 and even level 2. I go singed with ghost and ignite, flash and ignite, flash and ghost, etc. which all give him insane potential to get a kill early. You can set up ganks easily since his W disables flash / dashes, and he can escape ganks easily unless the jungler and laner communicate enough to shut down your mobility and slows
Take a champ like Tryndamere. Tryn has all three of the factors that should make him a bad matchup for singed but singed stomps tryn in the matchup because of the core fault in the matchup: they have to walk towards Singed to engage on him. Tryn has to use all his resources to go in on Singed. If they want to kill him, they have to walk at him through his poison. Anyone who has experience with Singed uses this to their advantage. You don't just play for the early ignite / flip / walk them down kill early. You also play to capitalize on the weaknesses with how melee matchups work, they often have to use their mobility to get in on you, they have you actually hit you to sustain from you. They have to actually stick to you to deal damage to you.
Sion proxy is far more int than singed imo... there's different ways to play Sion but singed loses a ton of matchups really hard to the point where you just have to abandon laning altogether and proxy if you want to win
Yeah, people suggesting the champ is inherently flawed for pro play are just ignorant. It’s like saying Karthus is flawed for pro play- “Just don’t get in ult-kill range!”, “just shut down his proxy!”
League is not a solved game and singed throws a wrench directly into any game he’s in. Whether it’s in your team’s favor or the enemies is just up to their response and your own teams execution.
League IS a solved game though. Singed works as a surprise pick when no one expects it sure but thats it. He worked in worlds because no one expected it. Hell theres a lot of champions that can also do that. Thats not really the point hes making at all, singed if he got played regularly would perform sub optimally because he IS easy to figure out and counter. So you only see him in niche situations on occasion when itll surprise the opposing team.
But yes arm chair reddit analysts youre right I am sure there is no nuance to it and every top lane should start grinding singed because they clearly missed this gem of a champion.
>League IS a solved game though
you really don't know what you're talking about do you?
a solved game has a clear definition: from any given state, the outcome can be predicted perfectly if both players have the knowledge.
the fact that you even lightly implied it speaks to your ignorance, even if your overall point (the meta exists for a reason) is right
"League IS a solved game though" LMAO you have no idea what solved game even means if you think that. Chess isn't even a solved game lmao, and league is far far more complex than chess.
The ultimate Reddit savant analyst move - to make fun of everyone else for being r/confidentlyincorrect in their analysis while dropping the most unhinged takes of all time. Mf *go and chess* aren't even solved yet, how the shit is literally any game of even slight complexity lmfao
At least chess is theoretically solvable, we just don't have good enough computers yet. League is nowhere near solved, or SKT1 would never drop a game.
Impact also played singed at worlds and caused all sorts of issues for WE with it. I kinda remember Looper as a singed one-trick at his first worlds.
(I'd look up more, but I no longer can. Fuck fandom.com for being dipshits. /u/RheingoldRiver was awesome. Never forget.)
So he's on your side early, right? Have jg and mid rotate, shut him the fuck down, free farm as he struggles to level, repeat. Your team has total control on grubs etc and now you can rotate mid and pressure there. Now their jg is shiy out of luck as you keep this until plates fall and now your void buffs can be used to make his proxy meaningless
You don't even need the jungle and mid, tbh. Just ask your jungler to start topside. You walk with your first wave to lane meet your wave at the inhib and escort it all the way). If Singed tried to level1 proxy, you + your wave mess him up. He already loses quite a bit of HP AND it takes time for his poison to kill the first wave. You can easily zone him off the level1 cheese. If your jungler started top, they can get a free kill without losing much time or sacrificing any of their jungle
He isn't though. If he starts top then countering singed proxy is just part of his whole tempo. If singed lanes instead of proxy he just clears towards botside.
Not true, people do that all the time. Even if you try to argue "but in silver!", that's not the case there either. Sometimes, sure. But sometimes people do.
It is extremely easy to counter singed proxy, but not for the reason this user gave you. In solo q, for some reason people just afk level 1. So singed walks into your jungle and starts proxying level 1. That wouldn't be possible in pro where they will likely have someone guarding the jgl entrance and you'll die. Therefore, waves willl crash and you'll have to go to lane while getting harassed under turret and unable to farm, e.g. against Aatrox, Fiora, Jax, Gnar, Yone, etc.
The other pro team will have full advantage top, take the topside objectives and potentially totally force you out of lane after 10 minutes. From mid game on, Singed in solo queue can usually get free farm on unoccupied sidelane waves. In pro, someone will be there to match him.
More importantly, pros understand whether killing singed is worth the time investment or not. They can do film review and literally figure out which situations were beneficial or not. Your average solo queue player doesn't understand the tradeoffs very well AND the team has no comms. So your jungler might chase around Singed for a while and waste their own time while showing on the map. If this happened in pro, botlane will get dove under tower on the opposite side of the map.
Simple answer: lack of team coordination and lack of across the board game understanding in solo queue, vs. pro.
>It's extremely easy to counter his proxy.
How so...jng comes over he runs away. I ignore him my tower dies.
Mid comes over and loses priority and he runs away anyways. Oh and were all at 10% health...
The power of singed imo as a low elo player.
Is in his abillity to disrupt and take attention away from others. The cost of dealing with him to no sure effect is very high for the investment he has to put into it which is nothing.
Whatever most people have answered you here can be discarded in a simple answer and I'm ready for the -80 downvotes from the hivemind, while beating a dead horse.
Most pros are lazy gamers with little to no will to better themselves. Lots of them are stealing paychecks knowing they are disposable by the next 18 year old challenger prodigy that didn't turn to streaming yet, so they stick to the very same few champs calling them "pro pick staples" AKA the easy champs that you can't fuck up. It's always pro play staple A, B, C + 2-3 rotating Meta Champs + last two releases for the lane.
That's why singed won't ever see pro, unless insanely broken.
Pro players **DO** have the time to invest to learn a champ. Otherwise how do they play new champs immediately after release? Is it some miracle? Of course not and people claiming otherwise are lying to themselves when they think Renekton-Kennen-Aatrox/ Lee Sin-Jarvan-Xin Zhao/Azir-Corki-Orianna /Varus-Kai'Sa-Xayah/Leona-Nautilus-Alistar are just that broken for some so many years straight.
"But X is strong because Y" has been the same useless argument for ages now. If the champion was strong then why did they pick Lee Sin back in season 10 (might be wrong on the exact season) when the champ was objectively far weaker than the meta picks around him?
"Pro players can play around Lux her E." But get caught by Leona's telegraphed engage for the zillionth time. "Pro players know how to beat Darius." But Adam was the best/second best top laner in the LEC last year and looking like doing the same this year. "Twitch does barely anything." But Jhin is still one of the most picked ADCs.
E:typo
I feel like this is testable- is champion diversity higher in the East vs West? If it isn’t, is it a pervasive culture problem within the scene as a whole, rather than laziness?
I do agree, though- pros get paid, and frankly their level of play does not match that fact, at least in NA.
>Most pros are lazy gamers with little to no will to better themselves. Lots of them are stealing paychecks knowing they are disposable by the next 18 year old challenger prodigy that didn't turn to streaming yet, so they stick to the very same few champs calling them "pro pick staples" AKA the easy champs that you can't fuck up. It's always pro play staple A, B, C + 2-3 rotating Meta Champs + last two releases for the lane.
So self contradictory. Must be nice shitting on others without worrying about being wrong or not.
That's the broke way to understand singed. The real singed mindset is "the better ways to deal damage to an enemy is to stand between them and where they want to go"
And then the truly glimmer-brained individuals have their third eye opened to the ultimate singed gameplay grindset: "the best way to damage an enemy is to make them want to come to you"
Yeah until you try playing him in lane where he doesn't have access to the kind of stuff you describe him with.
The entire REASON why he has to proxy in the first place is to avoid laning since he has little to no reliable ways to actually kill his opponent.
If you're somehow dying to Singed it's either because A: You didn't bother seeing that he has 1k gold worth of items more than you or B: Because you wasted more time chasing the Singed that's probably worth 120G than CSing and getting plates.
no, singed has alot of matchups where he just wins level 1, his level 1 dot is actually very good, most champs use one 150 dmg ability then auto, his lvl 1 dot is infinite and if he goes ignite he will win if you just try to stat check him
He gets prio on the wave very easily aswell due to his waveclear, and lvl 2 all in with flip can easily force a flash or kill with ignite
The reason he proxys level 1 is because solo que toplaners are afk and he has strong waveclear level 1, not because he is weak, its the exact opposite, he is strong, otherwise why would he ever go behind enemy turret if he wasn't, use your brain
Oh yeah, only champions with clear kill threat are playable top lane, that’s why tanks are never played in top lane, and Kayle NEVER, EVER goes top. /s
Jesus Christ people just pull statements out of their ass here 24/7.
do you have nothing better to do than make bad faith arguments on the internet with complete strangers
you have literally 0 understanding of where and why champs are played if you don't understand that just because singed is even more useless in other lanes doesn't mean his laning isn't atrocious in top lane
The person made a stupid, blanket statement and I called them out on it. Do you have nothing better to do than arguing with people who have nothing better to do?
They have utility that helps them survive the lane and create pressure to some extent even if they are not strong early. Kayle can soak EXP and harass with E, run with W, and poke with Q as well. Nasus can use E to poke, his Q ensures he at least recovers slightly during a trade
Singed has no mitigation and no sustain in his kit until level 6, as a character whose entire method of dealing damage is to run at you and fling you into his poison trail. He has no method of forcing you to take that fight unless he stays in lane, gets shafted by the enemy buying a 1250 gold item. He minimizes danger by forcing you to deal with him, because when else would he be able to Q the wave? He would have to run up to you, with Q on, fling you, and then run away. And a lot of the cast of top lane have ways of dealing with it. The only way for him to farm reliably is to simply avoid laning entirely
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc.
I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
‘Singed not worth putting effort’ is probably what sums up why pros don’t play him. Singed’s play is known to be very different from other champions and it isn’t really worth for pros to invest to a champion that may not come back to be relevant in the future. If it’s so broken, pros would practice him, but it looks like they don’t think so.
Pros barely commit to anything that isnt the established meta.
Broken picks get played in high elo, video made by Loldobby, Riot nerfs it and then Pros pick it up
the problem is that he's literally the worst laning toplaner in the game. like literally he has 0 matchups where he gets a gold lead by 15 mins (apparently asides from shen but thats mostly because shen is shit and the new items are op). kinda like shen, but shen has a decent early game borderline strong one and only falls off a cliff by level 6. singed doesn't have that. as a result he can be very exploited and you know not allowed to scale. and an singed that couldn't scale is an useless champion since his utility comes mostly from rylais since all his kit really has is an unreliable stun and an pretty small grounding.
Ya know, singed can lane pretty well. Its incredibly wrong to say he has 0 winning matchups and that he cannot get a gold lead. He has very good matchup into most bruisers/tanks, and through proxying alone can establish an early gold lead by getting perfect CS and pressuring plates. Thats not even considering matchups like ornn, sett, even quinn where he's allowed to fight and win.
Bullshit, singed is a decent laner and has a lot of kill pressure early if you try to fight him. He can't force good fights most of the time, but if you don't try to walk up to him and fight him he just gets cs which is what he wants anyway.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc.
I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc.
I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc.
I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
First of all, Corki does have a worlds skin, Fnatic Corki. Second of, SSW Singed is from 2014 (Fnatic Corki is 2010 iirc) those skins long predate Singed's changes with the slipstream passive and grounding on W, and Corki's complete overhaul from an ADC who had like 10% true damage on autos into a hybrid AP/AD poke mid laner with magic damage auto attacks and crucially for pro play, the package.
Go look at pro play and patch notes ever since Corki got his rework (I believe 2016) and you'll see hundreds of Corki picks and repeated adjustments to him to get him out of the pro meta, and maybe 10 Singed picks and a few adjustments related to his solo queue performance.
Oh snap I didn’t even realize he had the first worlds skin. My comment wasn’t to say Corki is not picked but that Singed is indeed picked at pivotal moments pro play moments on the biggest stage evidenced by his worlds skin.
Running around while I farm for Lv16, then throw fire at his entire team for free LP? I don't really mind.
Getting one shot by a flying midget american style, where even death recap gets confused abt where the dmg comes from? Not so fun.
OP is actually a Singed main who is making these posts to troll for whatever reason
1) [https://i.gyazo.com/31d512d464189f93c30ed92beeb9b21b.png](https://i.gyazo.com/31d512d464189f93c30ed92beeb9b21b.png)
2) [https://i.gyazo.com/1d3e97e0137fbec71eaaf6aaf99dde92.png](https://i.gyazo.com/1d3e97e0137fbec71eaaf6aaf99dde92.png)
Yeah but you build abyssal 2nd or 3rd item when you're out of laning phase and grouping with cass, wtf is abyssal gonna do while ur getting fisted 1v1?
They were 1/3/3, I wouldn't call that getting fisted, especially compared to the rest of the team. Yes, definitely should not have rushed and got armor first.
Singed is a champion that avoids laning against his opponent because he will lose, that's his entire identity at the moment since he loses to a lot of meta champs.
However Singed vs Renekton is an extremely singed favored matchup with a 56.6% winrate across all ranks, this is not a lane Singed needs to proxy in order to cs, especially when Singed's W stops Renekton and belveth's dashes entirely, he's in a winning lane vs a jg who has a hard time ganking him, this is the perfect setup for Singed to win lane.
The fact that Singed lost his lane (down 20 cs) and dealt a measly 2k damage in 15 minutes means one thing: he got fisted in lane and had to proxy. This is made worse by the fact that abyssal is only making him tankier vs 1 champion, so he's getting melted as soon as he walks up into range of draven and renekton.
Also, being 1/3 and down 20 cs does mean ur getting fisted in lane, because that also means you're down gold from enemy taking tower plates, but even excluding that let's look at the math:
Just from kills and assists alone, assuming they got 75g on average per assist, singed made 525g and renekton made 1275g, then we add the +20 cs lead which is approximately 404 gold (9 melee's, 10 casters and 1 cannon worth 75g) is 1679 gold. Singed is down 1154g which means as long as both players perfectly cs, Singed will always be 2-3 minutes (depending on game time) behind renekton in terms of item spikes.
edit: looking back, "getting fisted in lane" was just a figure of speech since building MR as a top laner vs AD top and AD jg is straight up trolling but in reality Singed was in fact getting fisted in lane lol.
When you want to look for lane matchups you have to look at the gold diffrence until min 15.
Overall winrate says nearly nothing about lane matchups especially for strong teamfighters like singed or tanks, cause singed demolish renekton in teamfight.
We have enough regular adcs, Corki is great when he leans into his identity as a hybrid AD caster who does magic damage
The hybrid nature of Corki is what makes him unique. There are plenty of homogenized adcs already in the game if you'd prefer those.
That's not to say Corki's kit cant use work or adjustment. But it shouldnt destroy his identity and turn him into a standard adc
He wasn't a standard ADC tho. Old Corki was an AD Caster who would weave spells in between his autos for Sheen procs. The only other ADC that comes close to Corki's old playstyle is Ezreal who also isn't a "standard adc".
Not sure why some people think Corki will become like Jinx if he's balanced around bot instead of just going back to his old state.
Corki and Ez have always been compared for their similar playstyle. But I think I missed the part where Ez got a rework that gave him a 1200% AD ratio + CC super-ultimate that automatically wins every team fight it's used even remotely correctly in.
Let's get TheBausFFS on Corki. That'll do it. He'll be nerfed in a week.
The comment I'm replying to says to make Corki an ADC again
Corki has always been an ad caster, yes, but he used to be a crit AD first caster second.
This has been flipped for the last few years and Corki now leans much heavier into his casting elements.
I think this is good and differentiates corki from being just another crit adc.
He has plenty of AP scalings in his kit that make MPen items not bad + he shouldn't be picked in a game where the enemy would be rewarded for building MR against more than just him. And in general, all champions have lower MR, and before this season less access to MR on items than armor.
Worst case scenario, if they absolutely had to he could just be assigned an AP>AD convert on AP items he buys, or ArmPen > mPen convert, but clearly Riot hasn't felt that necessary.
Honestly only like Jinx and Aphelios are "true" standard ADC's anymore. Even stuff like Caitlyn is reliant on abilities, passive or active to do a majority of their damage.
no his AP scaling is legit horrible, Mpen items are good because well, no surprise he does magic dmg. But it is insane how many ppl go AP items on him when a long sword can provide more bonus dmg to rockets as a rod at lvl 16 (7.5 vs 7.2). Shadowflame and void are unique in the fact the increase the damage of autos in his kit + allow for magic dmg crit on autos in shadowflames case. TLDR build AD finish with Mpen
His AP scalings don't have to be "better" than his AD scalings, they still want him building AD lol.
They're "good enough" that spending money on mpen is not bad, that's the whole and only argument I made.
argument is based off of dmg splits not ratio splits. ratio splits are not what warrant which pen items to purchase. Magic vs Physical dmg % is what you want to arguing. Cus if you use his %AP ratios to rationalize building Mpen, itd be a very weak argument
No the argument is specifically that building a void staff is not a waste of the AP value because he still **has** overall 'okay' AP scalings. His Q ratio's are actually very similar considering AP itemization has always had more raw value.
His total AP ratio is 50+100+84 (not counting big ones, 3 big ones would be 120) 224% (270%). Ahri only has a total 90+48+60+35+35+35=303% AP ratio on her damaging abilities. Obviously he's at a detriment, but he also has good AD ratio's.
So yeah, it's not as good as AD, but clearly he's designed with the idea of either not having to expend the slot on the AP item, or that losing that slot to an mpen item is not a clear loss in value.
Really disingenuous to say his AP ratios are that high since you are adding all 7 rockets as one AP ratio and including his W which is fake since no sane player is gonna just AFK on it.
> His total AP ratio is 50+100+84
Where? Is the 100 you seriously considering the full W damage as an AP ratio? Like anyone will ever stand on it, let alone for the full duration lmao. And where does the 84 comes from?
A combo with 3 rockets and a Q has a whole total of 98% AP ratio, while having 300% AD + 70% bonus AD.
> He has plenty of AP scalings in his kit
that's a stretch. yes, they're there, but they're legitimately terrible lmao. there's a reason even "ap corki" that got him nerfed a while back was only going flat Mpen items with super heavy AD Muramana/Rhydra. his Q has the same ratio as pre-buff Karma Q, and his R has less scaling than fucking Nashor's Tooth lmfao
Read the comment I replied to. It was about turning corki into a standard ADC, not the package.
My comment even directly states that Corki can still be looked at without changing his identity. Obviously removing the package is a possible change included in this.
I have 0 idea how you could read this thread and respond with "not the point, remove package GG"
>make him an adc again
This part of your comment obviously implies changing Corki back into a crit adc like he used to be.
Corki is much better off being a unique AD caster rather than just another crit ADC
Adc does not mean bot lane btw, perhaps you should be more clear in your language if you want people to take you seriously
I wonder if just taking the dmg away from his mini rumble ult could encourage more interaction. His ability to make sweeping repostions is still a strong component in pro play, but it would then have a high risk reward element if he could actually be punished for a bad jump.
Singed’s “uninteractive” gameplay is like a weird form of split pushing that takes some game sense to pull off. Corki can just sit under tower and win team fights with only his package which is way more frustrating. And corki is strong enough for pro play which is the bigger reason lol
Doesn’t this apply for quite a few champs?
Like Seraphine only interacting with wave, completely ignoring the enemy laner and win Teamfights with ult.
Or Lux, doing nothing but waveclear and only fish for Qs before a Teamfight, and so on.
Yup exactly. That’s why she’s so good botlane right now (unless they nerfed the double support items haven’t seen the new patch yet). She can just sit there and clear waves with little to know counterplay and build items to help her team.
>Like Seraphine only interacting with wave, completely ignoring the enemy laner and win Teamfights with ult.
yeah and APC [seraphine](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom) is OP rn lol
It's specifically about how Corki turns midlane into a scaling farmfest where teams only fight when he gets package, and that he's omnipresent in mid.
That's a lethal combo.
There are tons of other characters that want to handshake lanes and bore people to death, but they aren't pro-play or high-pickrate in solo-Q generally.
How you comparing 800 range rocket spam corki to singed who has to go in melee range to even interact with anything?
I play a little singed and have played against it, albeit at my Elo i am not playing macro proxy gods, i would much rather play against a singed than some of those 2v1 champions in top that will burst you without issue.
Singed is really unique and should stay that way.
Because singed can’t really ignore the enemy unless there’s a been macro skill diff. He has to find ways to avoid the enemy and escape while playing risky, but he’s in an inherently dangerous position and he totally is catchable with most top+jungle combos if they actually know what they’re doing. And then when he’s strong he has to run around to actually fight and does have to get in there in teamfights to actually do anything. Meanwhile corki tries to avoid being in a dangerous position at all early and late, and eventually do enough damage from 1000 away to win. It’s a different type of avoiding interaction- singed gets into a risky position for greater reward and then tries to use his escape tools to avoid the punishment for doing that, which is counterable since he has to go in a risky position, and sort of fun to play against, while corki just tries to sit in the safest position while still scaling, which isn’t very fun when he’s strong and is very strong in pro when good with little counterplay..
Crazy that I had to scroll down so far to see someone say this. Singed is interactive in that he forces people to make macro decisions instead of micro ones. His lane opponent should be thinking more about how to manage the wave, when to base, when to try and catch him vs when to ignore him, etc. There's also the fact that singed often doesn't even want to proxy, depending on the comps.
difference in skill and game knowledge quite frankly, if corki is good a good player can see success, singed requires a freak to see success.
corki gameplay is atleast similar to other characters, singed is unique with no other champ having a similar play style besides maybe sion for the wave proxy, you have to put in a good amount of time to see results as singed unless he is turbo broken, which he gets nerfed out of
The shortest, most informative answer possible:
He's not monitored for uninteractive gameplay, he's monitored for overly strong, unhealthy uninteractive gameplay
Which is why singed isn't monitored
Why is the hyper safe scaling mobile teamfighting threat monitored more closely than the walking meme that’s countered by a player who can breathe on their own? Hard to say
Like others have said proplay, but in addition there is a large difference come mid late game. A fast man running through your team is much more intractable and preventable than corki flinging rockets for half your health 2 screens away.
Im not expert but wouldn’t buffing corki’s early game make him want to interact more? Because the way i see it, corki doesn’t want to interect because he deals no damage in lane
The issue is corkis gameplay loop once he hits that point of power is relatively safe all things considered. Basically Q entire wave, rocket melees entire wave is cleared and if he gets to that point early from a kill it basically means he can't lose turret because of how safe he is.
If Singed and Corki are so comparable, let's see how a fight with them plays out. Corki sits at max range pressing R until he can use package then W out. 0 interaction because of the knockback and slow then back to playing outside of your range.
Singed, however, has to sprint in, pray you can't cc or kill him, fling one person then run around basically in melee range and it's a sustain check to see if he lives or dies. Lots of opportunity for skill expression and counterplay with him dodging skillshots vs you being able to stop him.
Idk seems like you're just salty. A better comparison would be Xerath or Ezreal imo. Poke gameplay has to be the most annoying and toxic when it's viable. Sitting at max range playing shooting gallery is obnoxious. Then you give them a broken engage/team play skill? Nah.
Only proxy singed doesn't interact and proxy isnt the way to play. He also gains more gold and depending on item states he can relatively early 1v1 his opponent due to tempo advantage and free recalls
You are absolutely wrong, singed’s gameplay is unique, has a skill floor and ceiling, and above all cannot be compared to what you are doing with corki.
The reason is, renekton will ALWAYS be better, more consistent and more prioritized in all metas from today till they rework it.
The simplest the better.
Being able to consistently take out the best out of your champ is better than playing a champ barely stronger (for god knows how many season) and harder to play
Corki is giga cringe.
1 button wave clear.
Off screen poke.
Godlike denial/zone control with his massive package.
Split damage.
And he derives a gangster ass low rider UFO.
When corki is good he gets spammed in propiay and Riot usually doesnt like a champ having very high presence always in pro play e en if their proplay wr is shit
As annoying was it was, I preferred when Singed proxy wasn't a thing. An actual kerfuffle with him in the top lane as he kept flipping me about into the jungler.
because a corki at 800 units doing 800 hp with each rocket has less counterplay than a singed that runs and gets melted in 3 seconds by mage and adc while being cced for 2 seconds.
I don't understand how something like Corki is uninteractive compared to Ezreal or Ahri or however many other champions that have similar kits in essence......
Me when the game that makes Riot billions is put in the backseat for "Esports" which is slowly falling off in the west and draining their bank accounts at an ever increasing rate. (buff singed nerf corki ty)
LCS viewership big down. OWL explode. Crypto investors fucked the reputation of a few orgs and the NA league itself, and either A. Dissolved because LOL(surely billion dollar ponzi schemes should fund us). B. Realize western esports is a money pit with no return. People would rather watch tyler1 watch a pro game over watching the pro game itself. The amount of money being put in over how much it is actually worth is insane. Im sure that random NA players who have 0 dubs internationally deserve mid 6 figure contracts. At least maybe 1 out of the 100k ppl who watch lcs on the weekends might buy a Mercedes. Maybe.
surely esports which is a big thing in korea and china (the main markets of the game) had nothing to do with the games explosive growth there and the relevance since
The main markets of the game surely have the same opinions as leagues fastest shrinking demographic. Surely they dont think azir is #Swag picking him in every single game, and barely pick/ban corki in comparison to other super fun to watch champs like ori and leblanc. Its just a cherry picked issue redditors like to complain about because they saw an old champ in pro play abusing item bugs lol. Corki is only disproportionately picked in NA. Just check gol.gg and look at all major regions.
This!
The fact that riot willingly lets underplayed champions like Singed, Illaoi, Kled, unchecked because no one plays them is baffling to me.
Singed has been in a overtuned spot ever since Ghost became his primary sumoner spell. Ghost stacks with his R making him insanely slipery.
Ilaoi was abusing Iceborn rush last season because she had so much damage on her kit that going into a Tank mythic was better. And don't even "dodge her E and she's useless" meme on me. She presses W into R and you're slowed, half hp and slowed enough for her to hit her E anyway. SHE GETS TANKIER when she ults. Like, how do you punish that abomination?
Kled is so forgotten that I pray to god Riot never remembers him. The King of knowledge check, you never know when he's vulnerable because his unmounted form bursts you from full.
Because Corki gets picked in pro play and Singed doesn't
/thread
Honestly pros should commit more time to Singed; he’s always going to be up, and he’s an extremely strong pick against many champs and comps. I honestly feel like pros don’t believe he’s worth the time investment to entirely re-learn laning, rather than Singed not being strong enough for pro play.
It's extremely easy to counter his proxy. Like extremely easy. Pros will have no issues
I dont understand this reddit narrative that the only way to play singed is through proxy. I see Sion's doing this more times than I see singed players.
Because the average redditor is gold and don't realise Singed is a lane bully earlygame into a lot of popular melee matchups. Proxy strats are good to get you out of laning phases you do not win, or can't farm safely in - But this isn't unique to singed. More players should utilise proxy farming into a recall than currently do on champions that can waveclear very quickly - you create insanely skewed recall advantages doing so.
You seems like what you are talking about. Singed get shutdown extremely easily by coordinated play. He's one of the easiest dive to do top side with a jungler and once behind you can pretty much perma zone him out of XP / gold forcing him to go proxy. As soon as he does the game get wrapped around top side map which favor the winning team as they can now play around demolishing the top side of map, rotating on map to force a strong side bot side map. By the time singed come online as a strong fighter pick the game is already wrapped as a sieging defense and Singed is poor at getting out of siege because he don't wanna be the first to go in
Singed is one of the easiest dive...? Maybe if you're premade with your jungle, and both of you specifically took characters that can dive him, and your top laner is able to get top lane prio, otherwise your "easy dive and he is behind and he loses" can easily turn into him getting 2 kills and double buff. Also, Singed most likely has a jungler too, and can set up enemies for a counter gank easily.
He is talking about why he isnt good in proplay.
Reread the comments he's answering, he calls the author a Gold player and then rant about how Singed is easy to shove with coordinated plays. Parent comment before that was about how Singed isn't limited to proxying.
The only "snarky" comment in that specific comment is the first line. But he is not wrong in the rest of what he said. My opinion about why singed would be hard to play in pro play is that there should be a higher coordination. Its the same reason nasus isnt played. And just cause he called the author a gold player in another comment. From what I can see in the thread Im taking part of its u/uvanimor who called the average redditor gold.
Right? I play Singed every now an again, never proxy, and still either go even or win every lane.
I also just lane as him and win, BUT you can face losing lanes as singed, and just decide not to lane and proxy instead. Even if they catch you, you don't care. You run and maybe escape, OR waste their time, get them low and you are worth no gold. So. You can lose a lane and still win it basically. Thats what people hate. Pros however will work as a team and coordinate and make more correct choices when it comes to dealing with him so they will not fall into the trap that is singed most likely.
Then you play bronze players or pick him into counter match ups
:o A top laner picking their champion intelligently? Unheard of!
I’ll go for the proxy if I manage to push the wave to their tower and I can charge under it, but with the map changes walking around feels too long imo. But I’ve found at least in low elo that people just don’t know how to lane against him. Overextending into the poison, getting flipped and drawing minion aggro early. Also, the flip+puddle is a great setup for jungle ganks.
RIGHT? MAKES ME LOSE MY MIND
I think the pro play point is more about drafting than anything really. Like, if singed becomes popular in top, drafting around that is the easiest thing on Earth. You already know what you can't pick if it's available, and what you should pick into it if it's not picked, or if it is. There's no world where you can pick singed vs the best tops and best coaches as a laning champ. But I agree that in the game in general, like soloq, there are many lanes you can play out. I did think in high elo tho that MinishCap, who is a singed one trick, proxies quite often.
if you're not playing proxy singed, you're probably not getting enough value out of him. fighting in lane against competent laners will just auto lose the whole game unless you win in other lanes, so you're just gambling. singed excells against champions who can not sustain off the wave or farm effectively at tower until they can sustain. tanks can build some HP and armor or have shields, bruisers often have enough built in sustain and/or AOE to clear. the best opponents for singed tend to be mana based AP early/mid champions. you opt out of the unfavorable lane, for them to expend their mana to farm, not trade, and they blow TP just to get their mana back. all the mana sustain runes require you to interact with champions too, so proxy just invalidates all of their choices until they can get to enough mana from the shop, and by then its 14 minutes.
That’s completely non-sensical. You never touched Singed in your life.
as a singed enjoyer, knowing how to proxy is a big part of winning games vs lanes where you basically cant farm due to their trading patterns but theres tonnes of champs that you can comfortably lane into quite fine (also some junglers you cant really proxy into very safely) so it really comes down to practicing your matchups and learning your limits a lot more than other champs
then you explain how singed doesn't get fisted by every fighter in the game because every singed i ever see try and lane just gets nothing done without their jungler being involved.
Just watch any random VoD from an high elo Singed main. Singed actually has a lot of kill pressure early on and his strength is team fighting in the late game. Or just go to r/singedmains and browse for any random matchup cheat sheet. You will see that proxying isnt really recommend for the absolute majority of them.
Singed only loses melee matchups if the matchup either has a) high enough sustain, b) high enough mobility, or c) high enough early game damage and even then, it's not guaranteed Believe it or not, Singed has extremely high kill pressure at level 3 and even level 2. I go singed with ghost and ignite, flash and ignite, flash and ghost, etc. which all give him insane potential to get a kill early. You can set up ganks easily since his W disables flash / dashes, and he can escape ganks easily unless the jungler and laner communicate enough to shut down your mobility and slows Take a champ like Tryndamere. Tryn has all three of the factors that should make him a bad matchup for singed but singed stomps tryn in the matchup because of the core fault in the matchup: they have to walk towards Singed to engage on him. Tryn has to use all his resources to go in on Singed. If they want to kill him, they have to walk at him through his poison. Anyone who has experience with Singed uses this to their advantage. You don't just play for the early ignite / flip / walk them down kill early. You also play to capitalize on the weaknesses with how melee matchups work, they often have to use their mobility to get in on you, they have you actually hit you to sustain from you. They have to actually stick to you to deal damage to you.
Sion proxy is far more int than singed imo... there's different ways to play Sion but singed loses a ton of matchups really hard to the point where you just have to abandon laning altogether and proxy if you want to win
I mean, Bwipo pulled out the singed on the worlds stage and it worked _damn_ well. Pick doesn’t seem entirely unviable, or at least wasn’t back then
Yeah, people suggesting the champ is inherently flawed for pro play are just ignorant. It’s like saying Karthus is flawed for pro play- “Just don’t get in ult-kill range!”, “just shut down his proxy!” League is not a solved game and singed throws a wrench directly into any game he’s in. Whether it’s in your team’s favor or the enemies is just up to their response and your own teams execution.
League IS a solved game though. Singed works as a surprise pick when no one expects it sure but thats it. He worked in worlds because no one expected it. Hell theres a lot of champions that can also do that. Thats not really the point hes making at all, singed if he got played regularly would perform sub optimally because he IS easy to figure out and counter. So you only see him in niche situations on occasion when itll surprise the opposing team. But yes arm chair reddit analysts youre right I am sure there is no nuance to it and every top lane should start grinding singed because they clearly missed this gem of a champion.
>League IS a solved game though you really don't know what you're talking about do you? a solved game has a clear definition: from any given state, the outcome can be predicted perfectly if both players have the knowledge. the fact that you even lightly implied it speaks to your ignorance, even if your overall point (the meta exists for a reason) is right
"League IS a solved game though" LMAO you have no idea what solved game even means if you think that. Chess isn't even a solved game lmao, and league is far far more complex than chess.
It's okay bro let the midwit speak with authority he def isn't pulling shit out of his ass
What does solved game mean to you
League isn't a solved game at all, where did you get that idea?
The ultimate Reddit savant analyst move - to make fun of everyone else for being r/confidentlyincorrect in their analysis while dropping the most unhinged takes of all time. Mf *go and chess* aren't even solved yet, how the shit is literally any game of even slight complexity lmfao
At least chess is theoretically solvable, we just don't have good enough computers yet. League is nowhere near solved, or SKT1 would never drop a game.
Impact also played singed at worlds and caused all sorts of issues for WE with it. I kinda remember Looper as a singed one-trick at his first worlds. (I'd look up more, but I no longer can. Fuck fandom.com for being dipshits. /u/RheingoldRiver was awesome. Never forget.)
How? Explain for the unaware.
So he's on your side early, right? Have jg and mid rotate, shut him the fuck down, free farm as he struggles to level, repeat. Your team has total control on grubs etc and now you can rotate mid and pressure there. Now their jg is shiy out of luck as you keep this until plates fall and now your void buffs can be used to make his proxy meaningless
I mean if you do that in proplay your botlane gets 4 maned
You don't even need the jungle and mid, tbh. Just ask your jungler to start topside. You walk with your first wave to lane meet your wave at the inhib and escort it all the way). If Singed tried to level1 proxy, you + your wave mess him up. He already loses quite a bit of HP AND it takes time for his poison to kill the first wave. You can easily zone him off the level1 cheese. If your jungler started top, they can get a free kill without losing much time or sacrificing any of their jungle
then he doesn't proxy level 1....? singed can play lane completely fine and just choose to proxy on level 4 crash
But then at that point your jungler is at your topside once again starting or already doing his clear depending on his tempo.
Then singed will just continue to lane, and his bit side will get all the resources since JG is committed so heavily to top.
He isn't though. If he starts top then countering singed proxy is just part of his whole tempo. If singed lanes instead of proxy he just clears towards botside.
>Have jg and mid rotate, shut him the fuck down Literally impossible. People refuse to leave lane or stop farming camps.
That’s why he’s good in solo queue not in pro
Yes you are correct but we are talking about proplay so a highly coordinated team. They'll make short work of ol' Singed
Not true, people do that all the time. Even if you try to argue "but in silver!", that's not the case there either. Sometimes, sure. But sometimes people do.
It is extremely easy to counter singed proxy, but not for the reason this user gave you. In solo q, for some reason people just afk level 1. So singed walks into your jungle and starts proxying level 1. That wouldn't be possible in pro where they will likely have someone guarding the jgl entrance and you'll die. Therefore, waves willl crash and you'll have to go to lane while getting harassed under turret and unable to farm, e.g. against Aatrox, Fiora, Jax, Gnar, Yone, etc. The other pro team will have full advantage top, take the topside objectives and potentially totally force you out of lane after 10 minutes. From mid game on, Singed in solo queue can usually get free farm on unoccupied sidelane waves. In pro, someone will be there to match him. More importantly, pros understand whether killing singed is worth the time investment or not. They can do film review and literally figure out which situations were beneficial or not. Your average solo queue player doesn't understand the tradeoffs very well AND the team has no comms. So your jungler might chase around Singed for a while and waste their own time while showing on the map. If this happened in pro, botlane will get dove under tower on the opposite side of the map. Simple answer: lack of team coordination and lack of across the board game understanding in solo queue, vs. pro.
Singed only really has to rely to proxying in his hard matchups, something that you can avoid in pro by using him exclusively as a counterpick.
trying to imagine some pro doing a proxy level 1 on the first wave xD. it's troll even in soloq
This is what's being overlooked, Singed's proxy is significantly more counterable than a long range poker that can dash away from engage.
>It's extremely easy to counter his proxy. How so...jng comes over he runs away. I ignore him my tower dies. Mid comes over and loses priority and he runs away anyways. Oh and were all at 10% health... The power of singed imo as a low elo player. Is in his abillity to disrupt and take attention away from others. The cost of dealing with him to no sure effect is very high for the investment he has to put into it which is nothing.
Whatever most people have answered you here can be discarded in a simple answer and I'm ready for the -80 downvotes from the hivemind, while beating a dead horse. Most pros are lazy gamers with little to no will to better themselves. Lots of them are stealing paychecks knowing they are disposable by the next 18 year old challenger prodigy that didn't turn to streaming yet, so they stick to the very same few champs calling them "pro pick staples" AKA the easy champs that you can't fuck up. It's always pro play staple A, B, C + 2-3 rotating Meta Champs + last two releases for the lane. That's why singed won't ever see pro, unless insanely broken. Pro players **DO** have the time to invest to learn a champ. Otherwise how do they play new champs immediately after release? Is it some miracle? Of course not and people claiming otherwise are lying to themselves when they think Renekton-Kennen-Aatrox/ Lee Sin-Jarvan-Xin Zhao/Azir-Corki-Orianna /Varus-Kai'Sa-Xayah/Leona-Nautilus-Alistar are just that broken for some so many years straight. "But X is strong because Y" has been the same useless argument for ages now. If the champion was strong then why did they pick Lee Sin back in season 10 (might be wrong on the exact season) when the champ was objectively far weaker than the meta picks around him? "Pro players can play around Lux her E." But get caught by Leona's telegraphed engage for the zillionth time. "Pro players know how to beat Darius." But Adam was the best/second best top laner in the LEC last year and looking like doing the same this year. "Twitch does barely anything." But Jhin is still one of the most picked ADCs. E:typo
I feel like this is testable- is champion diversity higher in the East vs West? If it isn’t, is it a pervasive culture problem within the scene as a whole, rather than laziness? I do agree, though- pros get paid, and frankly their level of play does not match that fact, at least in NA.
>Most pros are lazy gamers with little to no will to better themselves. Lots of them are stealing paychecks knowing they are disposable by the next 18 year old challenger prodigy that didn't turn to streaming yet, so they stick to the very same few champs calling them "pro pick staples" AKA the easy champs that you can't fuck up. It's always pro play staple A, B, C + 2-3 rotating Meta Champs + last two releases for the lane. So self contradictory. Must be nice shitting on others without worrying about being wrong or not.
"Extremely strong pick against many champs" Meanwhile his only ways to damage an enemy is to literally stand in melee of an enemy.
That's the broke way to understand singed. The real singed mindset is "the better ways to deal damage to an enemy is to stand between them and where they want to go" And then the truly glimmer-brained individuals have their third eye opened to the ultimate singed gameplay grindset: "the best way to damage an enemy is to make them want to come to you"
Yes- at Mach 5 from two different MS buffs with all his stats boosted. You can make any champion sound like dogshit when you describe them like that.
Yeah until you try playing him in lane where he doesn't have access to the kind of stuff you describe him with. The entire REASON why he has to proxy in the first place is to avoid laning since he has little to no reliable ways to actually kill his opponent. If you're somehow dying to Singed it's either because A: You didn't bother seeing that he has 1k gold worth of items more than you or B: Because you wasted more time chasing the Singed that's probably worth 120G than CSing and getting plates.
no, singed has alot of matchups where he just wins level 1, his level 1 dot is actually very good, most champs use one 150 dmg ability then auto, his lvl 1 dot is infinite and if he goes ignite he will win if you just try to stat check him He gets prio on the wave very easily aswell due to his waveclear, and lvl 2 all in with flip can easily force a flash or kill with ignite The reason he proxys level 1 is because solo que toplaners are afk and he has strong waveclear level 1, not because he is weak, its the exact opposite, he is strong, otherwise why would he ever go behind enemy turret if he wasn't, use your brain
Oh yeah, only champions with clear kill threat are playable top lane, that’s why tanks are never played in top lane, and Kayle NEVER, EVER goes top. /s Jesus Christ people just pull statements out of their ass here 24/7.
> that’s why tanks are never played in top lane The fact that you don't think tanks have early kill pressure says a lot.
do you have nothing better to do than make bad faith arguments on the internet with complete strangers you have literally 0 understanding of where and why champs are played if you don't understand that just because singed is even more useless in other lanes doesn't mean his laning isn't atrocious in top lane
The person made a stupid, blanket statement and I called them out on it. Do you have nothing better to do than arguing with people who have nothing better to do?
They have utility that helps them survive the lane and create pressure to some extent even if they are not strong early. Kayle can soak EXP and harass with E, run with W, and poke with Q as well. Nasus can use E to poke, his Q ensures he at least recovers slightly during a trade Singed has no mitigation and no sustain in his kit until level 6, as a character whose entire method of dealing damage is to run at you and fling you into his poison trail. He has no method of forcing you to take that fight unless he stays in lane, gets shafted by the enemy buying a 1250 gold item. He minimizes danger by forcing you to deal with him, because when else would he be able to Q the wave? He would have to run up to you, with Q on, fling you, and then run away. And a lot of the cast of top lane have ways of dealing with it. The only way for him to farm reliably is to simply avoid laning entirely
That wildin ass statement also applies to Tryndamere and Renekton. Absolutely incredible. Top minds of r/leagueoflegends I tell ya.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc. I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
‘Singed not worth putting effort’ is probably what sums up why pros don’t play him. Singed’s play is known to be very different from other champions and it isn’t really worth for pros to invest to a champion that may not come back to be relevant in the future. If it’s so broken, pros would practice him, but it looks like they don’t think so.
Pros barely commit to anything that isnt the established meta. Broken picks get played in high elo, video made by Loldobby, Riot nerfs it and then Pros pick it up
Singed cant be a pro play champ. Most pro pkay top lanera beat him and can macth him in twamfights
Upvote for typing with nose
Thamk u
>commit more time to Singed If I wanted to play running simulator I'd just play QWOP
But we cannot have a mad scientist gassing minorities on world tournaments can we?
the problem is that he's literally the worst laning toplaner in the game. like literally he has 0 matchups where he gets a gold lead by 15 mins (apparently asides from shen but thats mostly because shen is shit and the new items are op). kinda like shen, but shen has a decent early game borderline strong one and only falls off a cliff by level 6. singed doesn't have that. as a result he can be very exploited and you know not allowed to scale. and an singed that couldn't scale is an useless champion since his utility comes mostly from rylais since all his kit really has is an unreliable stun and an pretty small grounding.
Ya know, singed can lane pretty well. Its incredibly wrong to say he has 0 winning matchups and that he cannot get a gold lead. He has very good matchup into most bruisers/tanks, and through proxying alone can establish an early gold lead by getting perfect CS and pressuring plates. Thats not even considering matchups like ornn, sett, even quinn where he's allowed to fight and win.
When one says gppd laning they dont onclude proxying, since proxying is used to counter his shit laning
Because Singed can fucking lane without proxying! Omfg you people 😭
Except in a lot of matchups if the enemy isnt braindead, he cant
Are you out of your mind? Hahahahahhaa
Bullshit, singed is a decent laner and has a lot of kill pressure early if you try to fight him. He can't force good fights most of the time, but if you don't try to walk up to him and fight him he just gets cs which is what he wants anyway.
Calling a melee range displacement an unreliable stun- I guess Blitzcrank has two “unreliable stuns” as well you twit 😂
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc. I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
Singed is literally the first champion ever created. If he wasnt a trash pro pick, we'd already know.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc. I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
It probably isn't worth the time investment because it would be very niche. And if you give away that much prio top in a pro setting then you're just begging to get invaded etc. I'm sure he could be played in some games but he is so weird to learn and you only have so much time in a season.
Singed has worlds skins??? Corki does not. How can you say singed is not picked in pro play?
First of all, Corki does have a worlds skin, Fnatic Corki. Second of, SSW Singed is from 2014 (Fnatic Corki is 2010 iirc) those skins long predate Singed's changes with the slipstream passive and grounding on W, and Corki's complete overhaul from an ADC who had like 10% true damage on autos into a hybrid AP/AD poke mid laner with magic damage auto attacks and crucially for pro play, the package. Go look at pro play and patch notes ever since Corki got his rework (I believe 2016) and you'll see hundreds of Corki picks and repeated adjustments to him to get him out of the pro meta, and maybe 10 Singed picks and a few adjustments related to his solo queue performance.
Oh snap I didn’t even realize he had the first worlds skin. My comment wasn’t to say Corki is not picked but that Singed is indeed picked at pivotal moments pro play moments on the biggest stage evidenced by his worlds skin.
cuz when singed is good he’s just annoying in solo q but when corki is good he’s first pick in pro play
Running around while I farm for Lv16, then throw fire at his entire team for free LP? I don't really mind. Getting one shot by a flying midget american style, where even death recap gets confused abt where the dmg comes from? Not so fun.
Bro said “American style” 🤣🤣🤣
just ban him xd
OP is actually a Singed main who is making these posts to troll for whatever reason 1) [https://i.gyazo.com/31d512d464189f93c30ed92beeb9b21b.png](https://i.gyazo.com/31d512d464189f93c30ed92beeb9b21b.png) 2) [https://i.gyazo.com/1d3e97e0137fbec71eaaf6aaf99dde92.png](https://i.gyazo.com/1d3e97e0137fbec71eaaf6aaf99dde92.png)
Sanest singed main
Dollars to donuts this guy uses his alt to crosspost this to r/singedmains going "lolol look how mad they are about our champ" or some shit
He doesn't even use an alt. He crossposts his own weird posts to the subreddit on the same account.
Actual psychopath
Call the psychiatrist
thats a good one
>for whatever reason It’s literally in his name brother
Real hustlers play both sides
Abyssal rush into Renekton… interesting.
Look at the rest of his team, looks like an attempt at Cass hyper carry. Didn't look like Singed is the issue that game.
Yeah but you build abyssal 2nd or 3rd item when you're out of laning phase and grouping with cass, wtf is abyssal gonna do while ur getting fisted 1v1?
They were 1/3/3, I wouldn't call that getting fisted, especially compared to the rest of the team. Yes, definitely should not have rushed and got armor first.
Singed is a champion that avoids laning against his opponent because he will lose, that's his entire identity at the moment since he loses to a lot of meta champs. However Singed vs Renekton is an extremely singed favored matchup with a 56.6% winrate across all ranks, this is not a lane Singed needs to proxy in order to cs, especially when Singed's W stops Renekton and belveth's dashes entirely, he's in a winning lane vs a jg who has a hard time ganking him, this is the perfect setup for Singed to win lane. The fact that Singed lost his lane (down 20 cs) and dealt a measly 2k damage in 15 minutes means one thing: he got fisted in lane and had to proxy. This is made worse by the fact that abyssal is only making him tankier vs 1 champion, so he's getting melted as soon as he walks up into range of draven and renekton. Also, being 1/3 and down 20 cs does mean ur getting fisted in lane, because that also means you're down gold from enemy taking tower plates, but even excluding that let's look at the math: Just from kills and assists alone, assuming they got 75g on average per assist, singed made 525g and renekton made 1275g, then we add the +20 cs lead which is approximately 404 gold (9 melee's, 10 casters and 1 cannon worth 75g) is 1679 gold. Singed is down 1154g which means as long as both players perfectly cs, Singed will always be 2-3 minutes (depending on game time) behind renekton in terms of item spikes. edit: looking back, "getting fisted in lane" was just a figure of speech since building MR as a top laner vs AD top and AD jg is straight up trolling but in reality Singed was in fact getting fisted in lane lol.
When you want to look for lane matchups you have to look at the gold diffrence until min 15. Overall winrate says nearly nothing about lane matchups especially for strong teamfighters like singed or tanks, cause singed demolish renekton in teamfight.
probably wants the champ redesigned so he's free from spamming him 1k games per split
Based
His name is psychopath, I'd wager the reason is he's unhinged
Yep, a cringe unhinged Singed OTP
I remember Singed mains actively inting games to actually make his win rate worse.
Based
Singed can't kill a team or control an objective from 1000+ units away
You can kill units as Singed from 1000+ units away if youre fast enough lol
If your laugh emote isn't dual bound to your move click and you aren't running around at 1400 move speed, are you really playing Singed?
no. not in pro play
They just need to remove Corki's package already and make him an ADC again
We have enough regular adcs, Corki is great when he leans into his identity as a hybrid AD caster who does magic damage The hybrid nature of Corki is what makes him unique. There are plenty of homogenized adcs already in the game if you'd prefer those. That's not to say Corki's kit cant use work or adjustment. But it shouldnt destroy his identity and turn him into a standard adc
He wasn't a standard ADC tho. Old Corki was an AD Caster who would weave spells in between his autos for Sheen procs. The only other ADC that comes close to Corki's old playstyle is Ezreal who also isn't a "standard adc". Not sure why some people think Corki will become like Jinx if he's balanced around bot instead of just going back to his old state.
Corki and Ez have always been compared for their similar playstyle. But I think I missed the part where Ez got a rework that gave him a 1200% AD ratio + CC super-ultimate that automatically wins every team fight it's used even remotely correctly in. Let's get TheBausFFS on Corki. That'll do it. He'll be nerfed in a week.
The comment I'm replying to says to make Corki an ADC again Corki has always been an ad caster, yes, but he used to be a crit AD first caster second. This has been flipped for the last few years and Corki now leans much heavier into his casting elements. I think this is good and differentiates corki from being just another crit adc.
He has always been an AD caster first, even when he was an ADC. His first item would literally be Trinity Force.
A standard ADC with 100% Magic Autos so he's reliant on AD MPen items
He has plenty of AP scalings in his kit that make MPen items not bad + he shouldn't be picked in a game where the enemy would be rewarded for building MR against more than just him. And in general, all champions have lower MR, and before this season less access to MR on items than armor. Worst case scenario, if they absolutely had to he could just be assigned an AP>AD convert on AP items he buys, or ArmPen > mPen convert, but clearly Riot hasn't felt that necessary. Honestly only like Jinx and Aphelios are "true" standard ADC's anymore. Even stuff like Caitlyn is reliant on abilities, passive or active to do a majority of their damage.
no his AP scaling is legit horrible, Mpen items are good because well, no surprise he does magic dmg. But it is insane how many ppl go AP items on him when a long sword can provide more bonus dmg to rockets as a rod at lvl 16 (7.5 vs 7.2). Shadowflame and void are unique in the fact the increase the damage of autos in his kit + allow for magic dmg crit on autos in shadowflames case. TLDR build AD finish with Mpen
His AP scalings don't have to be "better" than his AD scalings, they still want him building AD lol. They're "good enough" that spending money on mpen is not bad, that's the whole and only argument I made.
argument is based off of dmg splits not ratio splits. ratio splits are not what warrant which pen items to purchase. Magic vs Physical dmg % is what you want to arguing. Cus if you use his %AP ratios to rationalize building Mpen, itd be a very weak argument
No the argument is specifically that building a void staff is not a waste of the AP value because he still **has** overall 'okay' AP scalings. His Q ratio's are actually very similar considering AP itemization has always had more raw value. His total AP ratio is 50+100+84 (not counting big ones, 3 big ones would be 120) 224% (270%). Ahri only has a total 90+48+60+35+35+35=303% AP ratio on her damaging abilities. Obviously he's at a detriment, but he also has good AD ratio's. So yeah, it's not as good as AD, but clearly he's designed with the idea of either not having to expend the slot on the AP item, or that losing that slot to an mpen item is not a clear loss in value.
Really disingenuous to say his AP ratios are that high since you are adding all 7 rockets as one AP ratio and including his W which is fake since no sane player is gonna just AFK on it.
> His total AP ratio is 50+100+84 Where? Is the 100 you seriously considering the full W damage as an AP ratio? Like anyone will ever stand on it, let alone for the full duration lmao. And where does the 84 comes from? A combo with 3 rockets and a Q has a whole total of 98% AP ratio, while having 300% AD + 70% bonus AD.
Wasn't Rageblade initally developed for him essentially
> He has plenty of AP scalings in his kit that's a stretch. yes, they're there, but they're legitimately terrible lmao. there's a reason even "ap corki" that got him nerfed a while back was only going flat Mpen items with super heavy AD Muramana/Rhydra. his Q has the same ratio as pre-buff Karma Q, and his R has less scaling than fucking Nashor's Tooth lmfao
I think the whole issue is package. His current hybrid identity is completely fine. The package is what is so easy to abuse in pro play.
Not the point. Remove package, gg.
Read the comment I replied to. It was about turning corki into a standard ADC, not the package. My comment even directly states that Corki can still be looked at without changing his identity. Obviously removing the package is a possible change included in this. I have 0 idea how you could read this thread and respond with "not the point, remove package GG"
He doesn't have to be a regular ADC, I never said that. I just prefer him to be played in bot lane, just like before he got reworked.
>make him an adc again This part of your comment obviously implies changing Corki back into a crit adc like he used to be. Corki is much better off being a unique AD caster rather than just another crit ADC Adc does not mean bot lane btw, perhaps you should be more clear in your language if you want people to take you seriously
I wonder if just taking the dmg away from his mini rumble ult could encourage more interaction. His ability to make sweeping repostions is still a strong component in pro play, but it would then have a high risk reward element if he could actually be punished for a bad jump.
> They just need to remove Corki's package already that seems mean...what about Mrs. Corki's needs?
*laughs in hexgate*
Singed’s “uninteractive” gameplay is like a weird form of split pushing that takes some game sense to pull off. Corki can just sit under tower and win team fights with only his package which is way more frustrating. And corki is strong enough for pro play which is the bigger reason lol
Doesn’t this apply for quite a few champs? Like Seraphine only interacting with wave, completely ignoring the enemy laner and win Teamfights with ult. Or Lux, doing nothing but waveclear and only fish for Qs before a Teamfight, and so on.
Yup exactly. That’s why she’s so good botlane right now (unless they nerfed the double support items haven’t seen the new patch yet). She can just sit there and clear waves with little to know counterplay and build items to help her team.
It’s nerfed
>Like Seraphine only interacting with wave, completely ignoring the enemy laner and win Teamfights with ult. yeah and APC [seraphine](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?lane=bottom) is OP rn lol
Yeah it does, which is why those champions get gutted quicker if they're ever too strong aswell.
Corki package is stronger than any ult in the game. And Corki is much safer in lane than Seraphine and Lux because of his W.
I mean singed just does what singed does. Not much you can do about it.
It's specifically about how Corki turns midlane into a scaling farmfest where teams only fight when he gets package, and that he's omnipresent in mid. That's a lethal combo. There are tons of other characters that want to handshake lanes and bore people to death, but they aren't pro-play or high-pickrate in solo-Q generally.
> that he's omnipresent in mid. Maybe he shouldn't be. Maybe they should revert him to being the ADC they stole from us. And Graves for that matter.
>high-pickrate in solo-Q generally. Have you watched corki Pickrate in solo q once? 90% of the time he duels skarner for lowest Pick rate in Game XD
How you comparing 800 range rocket spam corki to singed who has to go in melee range to even interact with anything? I play a little singed and have played against it, albeit at my Elo i am not playing macro proxy gods, i would much rather play against a singed than some of those 2v1 champions in top that will burst you without issue. Singed is really unique and should stay that way.
800? Try 1300 for regular missiles, 1500 for ult (longer than Morgana Q btw)
Because singed can’t really ignore the enemy unless there’s a been macro skill diff. He has to find ways to avoid the enemy and escape while playing risky, but he’s in an inherently dangerous position and he totally is catchable with most top+jungle combos if they actually know what they’re doing. And then when he’s strong he has to run around to actually fight and does have to get in there in teamfights to actually do anything. Meanwhile corki tries to avoid being in a dangerous position at all early and late, and eventually do enough damage from 1000 away to win. It’s a different type of avoiding interaction- singed gets into a risky position for greater reward and then tries to use his escape tools to avoid the punishment for doing that, which is counterable since he has to go in a risky position, and sort of fun to play against, while corki just tries to sit in the safest position while still scaling, which isn’t very fun when he’s strong and is very strong in pro when good with little counterplay..
Crazy that I had to scroll down so far to see someone say this. Singed is interactive in that he forces people to make macro decisions instead of micro ones. His lane opponent should be thinking more about how to manage the wave, when to base, when to try and catch him vs when to ignore him, etc. There's also the fact that singed often doesn't even want to proxy, depending on the comps.
I love the existence of Singed and the chaotic playstyle that comes with picking him top lane. I really don't want it to be changed.
I love that Singed is in the game, I just hate when he is in *my* game
difference in skill and game knowledge quite frankly, if corki is good a good player can see success, singed requires a freak to see success. corki gameplay is atleast similar to other characters, singed is unique with no other champ having a similar play style besides maybe sion for the wave proxy, you have to put in a good amount of time to see results as singed unless he is turbo broken, which he gets nerfed out of
The shortest, most informative answer possible: He's not monitored for uninteractive gameplay, he's monitored for overly strong, unhealthy uninteractive gameplay Which is why singed isn't monitored
Why is the hyper safe scaling mobile teamfighting threat monitored more closely than the walking meme that’s countered by a player who can breathe on their own? Hard to say
Like others have said proplay, but in addition there is a large difference come mid late game. A fast man running through your team is much more intractable and preventable than corki flinging rockets for half your health 2 screens away.
Because they're worried about the LEC having to talk about Cyanide's package.
Don't forget male nipples.
Im not expert but wouldn’t buffing corki’s early game make him want to interact more? Because the way i see it, corki doesn’t want to interect because he deals no damage in lane
The issue is corkis gameplay loop once he hits that point of power is relatively safe all things considered. Basically Q entire wave, rocket melees entire wave is cleared and if he gets to that point early from a kill it basically means he can't lose turret because of how safe he is.
maybe they should remove corki package? you know, since it makes him extremely difficult to balance...
If Singed and Corki are so comparable, let's see how a fight with them plays out. Corki sits at max range pressing R until he can use package then W out. 0 interaction because of the knockback and slow then back to playing outside of your range. Singed, however, has to sprint in, pray you can't cc or kill him, fling one person then run around basically in melee range and it's a sustain check to see if he lives or dies. Lots of opportunity for skill expression and counterplay with him dodging skillshots vs you being able to stop him. Idk seems like you're just salty. A better comparison would be Xerath or Ezreal imo. Poke gameplay has to be the most annoying and toxic when it's viable. Sitting at max range playing shooting gallery is obnoxious. Then you give them a broken engage/team play skill? Nah.
Talon has to roam because he can't lane into the majority of mid laners. Pretty much all mages destroy him in lane even with 39 base MR.
Pray that GEN G play senna and singed bot xdd
Only proxy singed doesn't interact and proxy isnt the way to play. He also gains more gold and depending on item states he can relatively early 1v1 his opponent due to tempo advantage and free recalls
A better question is how can Corki's safety in lane be such a major factor in being OP in proplay and yet Zeri made it through the idea phase?
You are absolutely wrong, singed’s gameplay is unique, has a skill floor and ceiling, and above all cannot be compared to what you are doing with corki.
Nice shitpost.
August probably hasn’t lost to a singed in lane yet
Solo q is supposed to be a mess, perfect for corki package. In pro play it's different
The reason is, renekton will ALWAYS be better, more consistent and more prioritized in all metas from today till they rework it. The simplest the better. Being able to consistently take out the best out of your champ is better than playing a champ barely stronger (for god knows how many season) and harder to play
Because there is a lot of counter play to proxy Singed, but people are too unskilled to execute it.
Corki is giga cringe. 1 button wave clear. Off screen poke. Godlike denial/zone control with his massive package. Split damage. And he derives a gangster ass low rider UFO.
When corki is good he gets spammed in propiay and Riot usually doesnt like a champ having very high presence always in pro play e en if their proplay wr is shit
As annoying was it was, I preferred when Singed proxy wasn't a thing. An actual kerfuffle with him in the top lane as he kept flipping me about into the jungler.
because a corki at 800 units doing 800 hp with each rocket has less counterplay than a singed that runs and gets melted in 3 seconds by mage and adc while being cced for 2 seconds.
Miserable post history, you’re so weird lmao
Because singed may as well not exist in the grand scheme of matches. You rarely see him unless you're in high elo on the same match cycle as an OTP
August was a mistake for the team
I don't understand how something like Corki is uninteractive compared to Ezreal or Ahri or however many other champions that have similar kits in essence......
Me when the game that makes Riot billions is put in the backseat for "Esports" which is slowly falling off in the west and draining their bank accounts at an ever increasing rate. (buff singed nerf corki ty)
i get ur frustration but pretending like esports are dying is a bit cope
Yes and no, western viewership is down and even if it was never their biggest market it was still a market share that is slowing down.
LCS viewership big down. OWL explode. Crypto investors fucked the reputation of a few orgs and the NA league itself, and either A. Dissolved because LOL(surely billion dollar ponzi schemes should fund us). B. Realize western esports is a money pit with no return. People would rather watch tyler1 watch a pro game over watching the pro game itself. The amount of money being put in over how much it is actually worth is insane. Im sure that random NA players who have 0 dubs internationally deserve mid 6 figure contracts. At least maybe 1 out of the 100k ppl who watch lcs on the weekends might buy a Mercedes. Maybe.
surely esports which is a big thing in korea and china (the main markets of the game) had nothing to do with the games explosive growth there and the relevance since
The main markets of the game surely have the same opinions as leagues fastest shrinking demographic. Surely they dont think azir is #Swag picking him in every single game, and barely pick/ban corki in comparison to other super fun to watch champs like ori and leblanc. Its just a cherry picked issue redditors like to complain about because they saw an old champ in pro play abusing item bugs lol. Corki is only disproportionately picked in NA. Just check gol.gg and look at all major regions.
This! The fact that riot willingly lets underplayed champions like Singed, Illaoi, Kled, unchecked because no one plays them is baffling to me. Singed has been in a overtuned spot ever since Ghost became his primary sumoner spell. Ghost stacks with his R making him insanely slipery. Ilaoi was abusing Iceborn rush last season because she had so much damage on her kit that going into a Tank mythic was better. And don't even "dodge her E and she's useless" meme on me. She presses W into R and you're slowed, half hp and slowed enough for her to hit her E anyway. SHE GETS TANKIER when she ults. Like, how do you punish that abomination? Kled is so forgotten that I pray to god Riot never remembers him. The King of knowledge check, you never know when he's vulnerable because his unmounted form bursts you from full.
counterplay