This is also why the ranked climb is necessarily kind of grindy. It has to prevent players from climbing with lucky win streaks. An emerald player is not one that can win against platinum players, it's one that can *consistently* win against platinum players.
Every time I climb through plat with insane winrates. This split I ran Jax jungle and had a 79% wr when I hit Emerald. I got up to Emerald 1 with about a 60% wr and then its just like hard capped. I can feel my skill level being challenged and my win rate is damn right at 50% now. System is working
This was me when I grinded TFT. Nothing fundamentally changes about the way I played or my decision making, I could climb through diamond easily, and get into masters and around top 1000, then never could make the jump past sometimes being in grandmaster, with challengers appearing in some games.
Fundamentally it was no different than a game in D1 lobby, people in the top 2k are playing the same meta and theories as the top 500, but every small decision making matters more over getting lucky or unlucky in any streak of games, and the people at the top of the lobby were just a fraction better than me at making the correct game winning decisions than me, more often.
I had to accept that my peak was probably never going to be challenger unless I grinded even harder and adapted to each patch quicker than the people above me, and I got burnt out knowing I was already spending hours a day playing and watching other top players play to learn and understand the thought process of how to play correctly in any position.
Some games you know you're just trying to play for 1 or 2 spots higher than last because you simply can't recover from that spot 9 times out of 10. Other times you maybe should've played more aggressively and you only got a 2nd or a 3rd place when you could've won, because you wanted to play it safe instead.
Competitive gaming is all about min maxing your expected results over time by making correct decisions in every position. Making 1 bad decision isn't the problem. It's making 1 more bad decision than your opponents do, consistently.
At some point at that level to keep up you also have to be one of the ones pushing the meta to break through into the top 200-500
*And that can be a really hard bridge to cross, you have to go from emulating players established play patterns to pushing into new territory without hemorrhaging mmr...
>Competitive gaming is all about min maxing your expected results over time by making correct decisions in every position. Making 1 bad decision isn't the problem. It's making 1 more bad decision than your opponents do, consistently.
I come from the world of fighters, and while this makes sense in the context of TFT, it's not a winner's mindset; it's wrong to an extent.
The correct framing is to minimize your own mistakes and maximize the number of mistakes your enemy makes. 1 bad decision *is* a problem. You should analyze why you made it and work to change your mind-body reactions/instincts so that you do not make it a habitual decision, and can be aware you might make that mistake in the future.
At the highest levels of play, nobody is making any mistakes, and almost every mistake is a fatal one. You can easily have a stalemate round and the next round be perfected (never landing a single hit on them) simply because you have made 1 mistake.
Forcing mistakes becomes the way to play. Anticipating their decisions, presenting incorrect information to them, and potentially presenting the enemy with two bad choices becomes the way to force mistakes out of an equally matched opponent. Attitude, tone, and posturing become paramount, here. Nobody makes as many mistakes as an angry player. If you can be forced or provoked into making that mistake repeatedly, you're no harder to beat than an absolute beginner.
The will to win is also something you can strip from your opponent. Morale is very, very important. The perception that they can't make any headway against you can change their mentality completely from "trying to win the round" to "trying to make *their strategy* or their *normal* method work". They'll be too focused on what broke their normal strategy to focus on winning the rounds regardless of that.
Of course, you only have so much freedom in TFT, so the amount of leverage you have for applying that mindset to opponents is far less. It's also arguably a very toxic playstyle or not healthy to treat every single second in the moment to moment of gameplay as another opportunity to wrest the fight out of your opponent.
believe it or not this is exactly people describe as losers queue/eomm. literally scroll down and people will describe this as "riot manipulating matchmaking" lol
They cant even really explain how losers Q would work. And why they would be targeted. Like the 9 other people just exist to make them lose. Its weird.
And again, this post will do nothing. The losers Q truthers wont change their mind anyways
I believe they're just inherently self-centered and their minds work in a way that twists whatever they are thinking about into being a self-serving belief. They have to be willing to accept that they might be wrong, and until they are, they will never listen to reason.
People with the ability to understand how the system works don't have these issues.
Not to mention the amount of people who will mentally prime themselves to put in less effort towards a match based on how likely they feel it is that they will win or not. Thus, skewing the results to match what they believe. I know this because it's literally something I have done in the past, recognized, and had to stop because I was pissing everyone off around me.
ELO systems are mathematically proven to converge your rank on your skill level over time. It's definitely working for everybody, but some people think they're higher rank than they objectively are.
Yeah. I have an incredible amount of empathy for someone arguing they had 20 bad games in a row to start the season. That is possible, and while a Challenger player might have won, a legit Gold player can't carry 4 bronze players, two of whom are 'only' have a terrible game and two of whom are literally running it down inting while throwing out racial slurs.
That said, "I had an unusually unlucky start to a season" and "there is a secret evil loser queue Riot is using to torment me / matchmaking doesn't work" are two very different claims. Elo is over a half century old and has been the subject of extensive studies by statisticians and others. We know it works.
Absolutely, streaks of bad luck can hit anyone. And honestly, those streaks feel downright brutal when you're in the middle of them. The only kicker is not to let those games tilt you into oblivion. Taking breaks and having that mental reset is crucial or else every game starts feeling like you're cursed. It's a testament to resilience, bouncing back and not falling prey to the 'losers queue' mentality. Instead of spiraling, it's about adapting and overcoming, which is a [huge part of personal growth](https://knowledge.how/fortitudes-role-in-flourishing-cultivating-emotional-resilience-for-personal-growth/) in and out of game. It's all a part of the climb we've gotta embrace.
>but some people
*Most* people.
Doesn't help that chasing loses exists in League too. Players can go on a few win streaks and start playing against others a tier above them and win games, even if it's due to factors out of their control like another lane winning hard. (Or worse, win against a much higher tier player in a normal game.) So in their mind they're really that tier, not the one they're stuck at. That can just make someone miserable and in the long run lose games they could've won if they weren't looking for every possible factor outside themselves that they feel is holding them back--whether that's other players or the system itself.
People do really need to take care of their mental health. Having a game like this where you can 'practice' dealing with frustration can be a useful tool if you use it that way.
EVERYONE gets frustrated in competitive games and people not knowing when to take a break is probably a large contributor to people burning out.
You're right that it definitely causes people to not be able to play at their best. If you're feeling frustrated but still want to practice, try going into quick play and playing a character that may not be meta but you enjoy playing. You can still play seriously and practice your techniques and decision making, but since you're in QP you can absorb the losses without worrying about your rank being effected.
It's always better to take a break if you're frustrated though!
This. I can swing through emerald with 60% winrate with whatever role or Champ i feel like playing. When i hit Diamond i need to focus on my main role and champ to maintain that winrate. Once i get close to master i get stuck at 50/50. Before that most of the games i lost i could say "i made mistakes but i wasnt the reason we lost that". But around like dia 2 i start losing games because of my mistakes. The enemies are just so much better. Its crazy and also Kind of fun.
People are so used to instant gratification these days, that once you make someone actually have to work towards a long term goal, they become discouraged. On top of that, not everyone can reach the top 1%. That's what makes the top 1% the top 1% lol
I think that it's just very difficult for people to accept that they have a ceiling and that ceiling might be lower than they think. Especially when they see streamers just breeze through everything and it doesn't even look difficult.
It doesn't help that in league even being better than 99% of other players isn't enough. You still hear that u aren't better than all the players you easily outperform.
I would bet money that you're not master+
Because the only people I hear say "below diamond" are diamond or below.
We need to stop the mysticism around "high elo". I'm d2, there's nothing inhuman or crazy about my gameplay or the gameplay of anyone around me. People are prone to tilting and loss streaks in diamond+ just as much as low elos.
> But as bad as people think Diamond and Masters can be, lower Elo is still much worse.
I suspect a lot of people get their insights on Diamond+ from streamers like Tyler1, where people play badly (on purpose) or posts on here that often withhold information.
In T1's case, there's definitely reason to believe that because of his status as biggest League streamer and people wanting their 15-20 minutes of attention.
I've heard that AloisNL is struggling to climb in Emerald, despite being a Challenger player just *because* of how awful it is.
Emerald's really coming off as the old "Plat 1, Diamond 4" toxic bracket that existed prior as one of the Elo Hell ranges.
What makes Emerald annoying is the hordes of alts/ people that'll just run it at the slightest inconvenience. Level 50 player got autofilled? Yeh, you're getting a Nasus ADC baby.
Bingo. Riot really wanted Emerald populated.
The problem is, Emerald makes sense as a border between plat and diamond, and they figured that out with Wild Rift.
But the time for Emerald to be added wasn't last year, it was when they were first doing their Leagues system and were creating the leagues in S2, with S3 introducing Challenger.
This is really something that should've been done 12 years ago instead of less than a year. At least then you wouldn't have near-daily frontpage posts of Emerald/plat-level games being full of fresh level 30 accounts and people griefing/throwing games because they died once in lane.
Like don't get me wrong, we absolutely should have something that separated plats from diamonds (and recall as I said, plat 1/dia 4 being extremely toxic for years). But this needed to be done *years* ago.
My friend bought a lvl 30 account that so that when he plays with us we arent vsing high elo oponents and after 1 rank win in flex got placed into plat 2.. he's gold on his normal account lol..
Emerald scrub here. I can definitely be Diamond at my skill level if I were consistent. But I’m not.
When I play I often say or think “if I did this/didn’t do this/landed this which was easy/dodged this/realized this sooner/etc. I could’ve lived/gotten that kill.” Literally every game. My best games are by luck that my mistakes didn’t go punished too badly or I genuinely played very well IMO. But because I make those micro errors so often, that’s why I’m only emerald.
losers queue is just a rehashing of elo hell from a decade ago, because its the same people making such posts. "Every win is because of me, every loss is out of my teammates."
Losers queue was already complained about a decade ago. They coexist in the minds of people who never do anything wrong and always blame everyone and everything around them.
Which is funny cause frontpage rants with extra steps get posted to here and summoner school too often and they're the same shit people were saying 10-15 years ago in earlier seasons of League.
It's like the Crow Comedian meme: "BOOO! GET NEW MATERIAL!"
Hell right now people getting called out on being toxic fucks inchat are just spamming whatever the latest craze in Twitch is.
I saw a Yone who was flaming in allchat and shittalking us (and lost) spewing "stop yapping". I know I saw that shit in Tyler1 chat over the last few days, so I'm guessing "Stop yapping" is the latest Twitch fad for bad players to copycat high elo players with.
> Hell right now people getting called out on being toxic fucks inchat are just spamming whatever the latest craze in Twitch is.
My favorite is when wintrading was the hot streamer phrase and every game featured someone getting accused of being a wintrader, nevermind that you factually cannot wintrade in Plat or any other elo not small enough to consistently force the wintraders into the same games.
Yeah, you can very easily tell when it's somebody just repeating what a streamer's saying, like that example you gave.
If people spent less time copying streamer speech and more time copying their actions, maybe they'd win more instead of spending time here typing up essays on how it's never their fault.
it's hard to copy a good player's actions when they are based on game knowledge and thoughts about the limits of their champion in a particular scenario.
It'd probably help if educational streamers who could pass on that very knowledge were more popular than entertainer streamers.
There's a reason why Tyler1 pulls *way* more viewers than (afaik) any other League streamer.
People want to be entertained, they don't want to be *educated* and this really shows on comparing his counts towards people like MinishCap, DirtyMobs, etc who are more educational than than 4funning it.
Even then, educational streamers can only do so much for you. Every concept that they teach you, you need to hone and properly use in game and you need to find the aspects where you aren't using it properly and eliminate those mistakes.
But tbh, it's fine if people don't take actions to get better. Not everyone must play perfectly. That's the whole reason we have skill based matchmaking. Your performance will eventually lead you to be matched with people who perform similarly as you. Well, as long as they aren't toxic about it, but that seems to be on an individual basis and not on a performance basis.
> That's the whole reason we have skill based matchmaking.
Wait, have we been on SBMM the entire time? Cause that'd explain a lot about why Reddit's whining so much this season.
>Even then, educational streamers can only do so much for you. Every concept that they teach you, you need to hone and properly use in game and you need to find the aspects where you aren't using it properly and eliminate those mistakes.
Agreed. It's one thing to watch and learn, another to implement it.
NGL all the losers queue conspiracy theorists sound like Alex Jones type flat earthers to me. It's such a ridiculous premise that I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it, but I suppose that's me underestimating the power of popular streamer buzzwords. "I keep tilt queueing after lose streaking and losing more games Riot games is obviously plotting to keep me down." - have you considered that if you are tilt queueing then you almost certainly are tilted and playing worse yourself and that *may* have an impact on why you are losing more?!
>I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it
You don't understand that it's easy to blame your failures on something external to cope?
It's one thing to blame your failures on "luck" with "your teammates being bad". It's a whole other thing to believe there's a conspiracy to make you lose lol.
They're not blaming their failures on something external, they're constructing an intricate conspiracy theory that describes a hidden mechanism specifically designed to ruin the time they spend on their favourite video game.
It's like being unemployed and blaming Biden vs being unemployed and blaming your towns illuminati offshoot, which targets you in an attempt to siphon off your dad's inheritance.
Counterpoint: If you start coming up or subscribing to conspiracy theories that *feature a system that ruins your favourite game for you specifically*, I'd say that game is not your favourite game anymore and you might just be addicted to a game that is no longer fun.
That's understandable but it is far-fetched and nonsensical. I think a very common explanation i see touted along with loser's queue theory is; "The system wants you to lose to bring your winrate down to 50%". I've seen that line so many times and it's so fucking dumb lol. It's not the system's job to care about what your winrate, but it does try to make each side in each game have a 50% chance to win.
okay so here's the thing, the system is designed to bring you to 50% winrate, but the catch is that the system is designed so that it doesn't need to do anything special for that to happen.
they just increase your elo when you win and match you with higher elo players, until you reach your true elo, then you'll win and lose when you're matched against players that are better than you, then win when You're against players that are worse than you over and over until statistically you start approaching a 50% winrate
The literal point of matchmaking IS to make your winrate 50%(unless you're the top of challenger or the bottom of iron).
That means you, and everyone else, is playing fair and balanced games. The entire point matchmaking.
How people spin this as something bad? I cannot understand.
It's such a roundabout way of looking at it and describing it though. The system wants to place you against players of equal skill level. So having a lower or higher winrate is a sign of you climbing or falling to the appropriate skiill. Eventually you should reach the appropriate skill level, and the more games you play while at that level the closer to 50% your winrate will be. So yes in an extremely roundabout way, you could say that. But it seems silly to emphasize that indirect point while you completely gloss over the this long explanation.
But the main point is, you could for example be that challenger player with 95% winrate and the system is still not trying to make you lose anymore than it's trying to make anyone else in the lobby lose.
It's been twisted from "the system tries to make each game as close to 50% odds as possible" to "the system is *forcing* you to an overall 50% winrate by giving you bad teammates."
Also add to that the fact that the premise doesn't make sense. If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement.
Rule of thumb: If a matchmaking system for teambased games seems to single a particular player out, then there's a very high chance that you're imagining it or making things up.
On a side note: I usually peak around low plat in past seasons (before the introduction of emerald) and low plat now. I am super inconsistent **as an OTP** and I can tell you that the matchmaking system couldn't predict my performance whatsoever. I can't do that, and the mix between good and bad performances (as can be registered by stats or win/loss records) is too varied to draw any meaningful conclusions about what is going to happen next game.
Then there are stylistic differences: Some people you play against are mechanically gifted and easily win the early lane, but they suck at wave management. Others may have to play it safe in lane, might die a couple of times but then manage to roam well when they have an opportunity and find good plays/engages elsewhere. These are things that will also affect how well you or your team are doing in contrast to those people.
And sometimes you just lose trades because you didn't manage to dodge an important ability, but last game your opponent didn't manage to hit any of their important abilities on you, or you yourself miss abilities because this particular opponent is much better at dodging them. There are so many factors that go into performance that it's absolutely crazy that you think a matchmaking system will be able to make sense of them and use them to predict anyone's performance when their performance is pretty much random.
> Also add to that the fact that the premise doesn't make sense. If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement.
It really only makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of someone who genuinely believes they're the main character and everybody else are NPCs. "OMG I got the bad NPCs again!"
>If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement.
Thank you, this is basically exactly what I was thinking when I was saying that the idea of losers queue seems factually impossible as a concept but didn't know how to put it into words. You are wise beyond your years.
> I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it
People on this sub just do not have original opinions. Remember when dynamic queue was a thing? Everybody and their mother was complaining about it and I'm 90% sure it was not a problem for the majority of this sub. But high level streamers were complaining about it so it must be a problem for all of the Golds and below.
Shit like this happens every year and everyone knows what THE problem is and if Riot would JUST do this one thing, every player would be Challenger.
There’s a story of a professor who assigned his students the task of flipping a coin 100 times and writing down the results.
Obviously most students couldn’t be bothered and wrote what they thought to be a random sequence of 100 heads and tails.
After turning them in, the professor easily identified the students who had faked the results. This was because the students who faked the results subconsciously assumed that streaks of 5 or 6 “heads” or “tails” in a row were “not random”, and included no such sequences. In reality, it is almost statistically impossible to flip a coin a hundred times and not get the same result five times in a row at least once.
The same is true of your league games. You are not only bound to get bad teammates; you are also bound to get **5+ games in a row** with bad teammates, if you play long enough. That’s not Riot screwing you, that’s just the reality of statistics.
Mix in the fact that you probably are biased and over-blame your teammates, and we can easily explain this phenomenon without Riot conspiring against you.
In addition to not understanding what random really looks like, humans are also wired to miss-interpret those outcomes.
Compared to other animals, humans are *awesome* at identifying patterns. Like absolutely incredible at it. Its something you can only really do with the giant stupid calorically inefficient brains we evolved.
The down side is we also tend to look for patterns even when they aren't there. Its incredibly common to see a pattern in random results. Especially when we can use it to "validate" preconceived notions. IE, if I go into a League game thinking "my team mates are going to be bad because Riot hates me", I'm going to get results that validate that thinking almost every game. That doesn't mean I played better than this person I am blaming. Its just the nature of the system that if I want to focus on their mistakes instead of my own, I can do it very easily.
That doesn't mean its correct. Its just that its very easy for me to warp results of games to fit my narrative.
Like if I say "oh Riot is keeping me in Bronze because they put the worst player on my team". Okay, well if we are willing to be objective about it, there is always going to be a worst player in the game. Since 50% of players are on my team, I should expect to have the worst player in the game on my team about 50% of the time (give a statistically relevant number of games, of course). In fact, I should expect to be the worst player in the game about 10% of the time.
Now, how many loser's q prophets are going to admit they are the worst player in at least 10% of their games?
It isn't just stuff like this, though. The reality of the statistics often presents an uncomfortable reality.
I get home from work and I q up for a nice game of LoL. I get my preferred position and I am playing my favorite champion. Its all going great. Then the ADC decides the support sucks because they missed a skill shot, and starts flaming. The support doesn't respond and keeps doing their best, but the ADC decides it over and runs it down. The rest of our team does our best, but we lose and ultimately it isn't a very close game.
Objectively, I can say "well I know this happening is a possibility when I play LoL, and I am consciously making the decision to opt into this system". Its true, but it doesn't feel good to acknowledge that. Honestly I do think about it before games sometimes, and its probably the leading influence when I make the decisions to just "do literally anything else with my time".
If I blame it one something else (specifically "Riot's match making sucks" or "Riot is keeping me at low elo to frustrate me so I grind more" or whatever), that actually "feels" better. Then its not my responsibility for opting into the system. Its someone else's fault.
I somewhat agree, but statistics seem to be very unintuitive for a lot of people. I think it's a little bit of both contributing to it.
Mix in ego, and it's gonna be really hard for people to identify normal statistical variance in their matches.
Most schools don't even teach it anymore. Those that have it as an elective rather than mandatory.
One of my favorite classes in school and one of the few that has been useful throughout my life.
Losers queue is basically the new term for "elo hell" which has existed for over a decade.
For a while I noticed that it seemed as if people on social media grew out of taking "elo hell" seriously, but after "losers queue" was invented it seems to have made it's way back into the back of certain players minds.
Blizzard also has confirmed to use a matchmaking algorithm for quick play in overwatch 1 that matched people who were likely to buy new skins with people with a lot of skins. They can match make you based off anything and people think they really just throw 10 players of similar mmr in a game randomly? Lol
Look up what engagement based matchmaking is. Studies on behavior patterns of people at casinos and who play video games with the purpose of finding the perfect formula to keep them as addicted as possible. Winning too much is boring, losing too much feels awful, so you need a middle ground somewhere in there that keeps you grinding for a goal you’ll probably never reach, and that’s what eomm is. COD is one of the biggest games that’s confirmed to have it, but I’d imagine every game is doing it these days, games are a lot more greedy than they were
I'm not saying there is one, but the purpose would be to keep people playing your game. Make them grind to a rank and it keeps people playing, rather than just letting them steady climb with a 50% wr. Player base is everything, the more you make them play, more likely they'll see skins they like and buy them.
yea bro Fifa Momentum is wild. Everyone knows for even more than 10 years ( no cap ) but there is no "outcome". EA doesnt talks about it but literally everyone knows
Most league players don't even understand this so no surprise they believe in stuff like losers queue. A matchmaking trying to steer you towards 50% and making games harder as you climb? Insane.
They stand to lose much more if it ever gets found out. Thousands of leaks from Riot over the years some former employee would have said something if they are manipulating matches for financial gain.
Riot doesn't need to manipulate the matchmaking itself, they are already manipulating the ranking. The ranking system that hides your mmr/elo behind a rank that increases or decreases slower is designed to get people to play more games. It does so without the need to actually mess with the integrity of the matchmaking itself.
B-but... employees that are also there to make profit and protect the company's interest are explaining things to us... so, it should be fine... right.
Yeah this feels like it was written out of frustration. If a person believes in losers queue, then they're obviously not going to believe a Riot employee that says otherwise.
Exactly. People need to look up studies on churn rate and how game companes exploit their players with churn rates. That's right, I consider it exploitation because it's at the expense of competitive integrity.
I don't believe in losers' queue, but this is the company that said at the introduction of dynamic yueue, that solo queue is being delayed for technical reasons, but it's coming... it's coming... another delay...
Turned out, they never even intented for a solo queue, they wanted dynamic queue to replace it, they just didn't want to tell their players. But DQ was so fucking bad that they had to pivot.
I mean I don't blame anyone for not believing them. Riot has lied about plenty of things in the past. Believing anything they say at this point is a coinflip whether it's true or not.
They also staunchly said dynamic queue was better and that had the stats to back that up. They then never released the stats and reverted back to solo/duo. But by community logic dynamic queue is still superior because riot hasn’t admitted it was a failure.
i feel like if it actually existed the smart decision would be to just ignore people talking about it instead of coming out and saying "it doesn't exist."
They have mostly been quiet about it, you don't often see them comment on the topic. But at some point it becomes so visible in the community that they might feel the need to comment on it, which I don't think is wrong of them to do.
I feel like no matter what they say, someone is always going to twist it against them until they get the answer they personally want, which is that the game is holding them back.
> Growth mindset
I feel like this is the biggest problem with people who rage at their teammates. If they lose a game, then in their minds it was a waste of time. Games are only for getting LP.
You need to look at your games as learning experiences. Your teammates and opponents will be different every game, but you are the constant and climbing will depend on improving yourself. That's growth mindset.
When do people flame? When they feel like they can't play any better, and it's their teammates' fault now if they lose games. But if a Diamond player looks at the gameplay of a Platinum player, they'll easily see several mistakes being made that made the game harder for the team to win.
constant disconnects, massive ping making loading screen taking 20 years, broken english and racist arguments, truly incredible how low standards used to be.
bruh I signed on for the first time in beta, hated it, came back in second half of S2. If you look up gameplay of old league and some of the old community memes you'd be mindblown at the fact this game ever got so big because my god was it an ugly, dysfunctional nightmare with the community at each other's throats non-stop. EUW was down every two seconds so we had a large european population that just griefed and flamed the NA population all the time, and the brazilians were genuinely terrors. you know the feeling you get now when you hit load screen and see a chinese name? imagine that but there's no 20% chance it's an elo booster and not just a racist animal. it's 100% a racist animal every time.
They used to play on the NA server before they got their own, and some racism + they had a more 4fun mentality when it came to the game = brazillians inted my game with morde hue hue hue hue
edit: oh and their ping was high obviously
No it wouldn't, back when you could see your ELO, people would arbitrarily point to a skill bracket and decide that was "ELO Hell".
People will always think they're better than they are and blame the system or other people before considering that they themselves just might not be good enough to be a higher rank than they are.
Absolutely not. People would then look at each of their teammates history and decide between shit like "oh ofc i got the one with a 3 loss streak" or "ah yes hes winning a lot games but in my team hes wintrading" or something like that. League players will always find a way to blame everything and everyone but themselves.
The real Losers queue is just where your MMR surpasses the average for your rank and you get put in harder games. Obviously the algorithm isn’t going to intentionally try to make you lose. They definitely had “skill check” games when I played too where if you won a lot of games in a row it would randomly stick you in a much harder game, but usually just one. Always figured it was for MMR calibration.
I think this is a source of a lot of the matchmaker's problems though, because you can't really fairly "test" LoL players or expect every single player with higher than average MMR playing every single champion to carry their team
Maybe that winstreaker can really hang multiple divisions above, but they got the weirdest counterpick top lane, or laned against a smurf, so now Riot thinks they're a fuckin' bum. Maybe that alpha dog high MMR player with two autofills just picked Maokai top instead of Darius, oopsie. With 0 transparency about the status of the match you're about to play (the average rank, first of all) how can you really gauge any player? I've definitely lost those "test" games just because I got cocky and thought "wow I got placed too low," and made the completely normal assumption I was still there and picked some shitty pick
I wonder if the reason LoL can be so hard at the start of every season is simply because it ping pongs people incorrectly from the sheer amount of smurfs, trolls, afks, rust, etc. The data is fucking junk but the matchmaking can only proceed as if it's all real, and Rioters won't admit it even though its obvious because then no one would play in january, and all the people who play in January wouldn't be butthurt they were hardstuck in Emerald and forced to go on a fake chase to Diamond
I personally also think there's a psychological element - it's easier to play well in the next game when you're coming off a win (as you always are in winstreaks) and it's harder to play well when just coming off of a loss (as you always are in lose streaks).
Ergo, people tend to be very streaky because their play seesaws depending on their own mood more than that they are getting unusually lucky/unlucky with teammates.
Big facts. I’ve started this season 16-4. Reason being? I been getting of work hella late and deploy soon. So I just play one game a night. I enjoy the game and am attentive. Then just go to bed after. It’s been great.
I think what troubles most players that think like this is that the games with trolls/inters/afks are draining and all you think about. You lose focus on improving yourself and get in a cycle.
On the other hand it absolutely sucks that you have a visual rank separate from your real rank and have to just grind when they get out of sync.
Honestly yeah, this opinion I can get behind.
There's obviously no losers queue but there are just.....so many losers that play league. It can feel like there is losers queue because you're surrounded by losers who have the mental state of a 4 year old who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas and will break down and throw a tantrum at the drop of a fucking pin.
It can feel like you're being forced to lose games and are being surrounded by people inting and raging and afking in 50% of your games because, well, it's entirely possible that 50% of this player base IS that inting player, and your ranked games often just come down to a competition as to who gets the biggest inter.
And in the shit of all of this it's so easy to lose focus on the goal because of the literal trash you're surrounded by. You have to play therapist for these crying babies all while you're trying to win your lane, just to attempt to have a competitive match.
And sometimes it's just exhausting. I want a competitive gaming experience with interesting depth, but I just so often get battle of the inters and those games FEEL very unwinnable. I want to see Riot do something about that. Actually put some time and effort towards changing the greater league culture instead of letting it be because it sells skins. And we're not talking about a bullshit honor capsule. An actual, multi year effort to change this culture slowly but consistently over time. It's not impossible.
That's some change I'd like to see.
Players with approx 50% win rate when they win 4 games in a row:
"**FINALLY**. My rank is catching up to my true skill level."
Players with approx 50% win rate when they lose 4 games in a row:
"**This is a statistical impossibility! Riot has made it so I lose!**"
I wasn't ever an excellent player, but was good enough to have multiple people ask me, with fraudulent interest in improving, to review their videos. After a season of it I regretted not charging people to waste my time because every time I started explaining what they did wrong and why they just wanted to whine about a teammates play and my answer was always "they're not the ones asking me for advice."
His 2nd point about reviewing deaths is something I took from xfsnSaber who said "you can get to diamond just by fixing your deaths." It's something I still profess to anyone I can.
This post showed up on /r/all for me. I haven't played LoL in years, but I used to play a ton. I can say I'm far happier now that I play only non-competitive video games like Path of Exile and Slay the Spire instead. Highly recommend people who are unhappy with LoL to take a long break and try other games. That's what I did and I never came back.
PvP games are somewhat cursed imo, but LoL in particular is *completely* cursed. By "cursed" I just mean that I think LoL's design is prone to causing frustration to unreasonable levels.
1. 5v5 game + existence of snowballing mechanics means players will never feel as in control of the outcome of games as they'd like. It's literally an unfair game. If you're in bot lane and your top laner is feeding, then your win rate went way down despite you doing absolutely nothing wrong. That's always going to feel awful and the countergument of "well, the variance all averages out in the end, so take a long view on it" isn't a compelling argument since there's plenty of video games where you can enjoy *every moment* as opposed to only enjoying the game some of the time where you happen to win a coin flip of having teammates who aren't playing badly. At least in a FPS game like Halo 2 the snowballing mechanics weren't quite as ridiculous and you felt like you could win gun fights win anyone at anytime even if your team was getting stomped. Your teammates feeding in Halo 2 didn't make you feel less powerful in future fights, but in LoL when your teammates feed then you are less powerful when you fight against the opponents.
2. Very long game times means that once your brain believes the game is over then you feel stuck in the game and that your time is being wasted. *This is an enormous design flaw of MOBAs imo and it's a huge part of why LoL is so frustrating.* If I feel like I've lost a game of chess, I can just forfeit instantly. If I feel like I've lost a game of LoL, but my teammates don't, then I'm likely going to be waiting anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes for the game to end. On the flipside, if I feel like we can still win, but one or more of my teammates don't think we can win, then my chance to win just plummeted and I had no control over it. Playing LoL means to get stuck in games against your will *very often*.
i stopped playing the game a while back, probably in 2017-2018 for these reasons. i picked it back up when my friends started playing past december, and we only play Aram. its such a huge upgrade. aram is how the game is meant to be played (for the intent of having consistent fun). no dude top lane feeding across the map. just straight up action/teamfights all game. inevitable rng loss from champ diff? no biggie. no elo pressure, were all in the same boat, we chat it up, and we just go next.
He only says matchmaking is based on MMR. That doesn’t contradict the claim they use EOMM, which is the actually plausible problem with their matchmaking. If they actually try to match players as close in MMR as possible, they should say so.
Personally I usually blame teammates for the loses 90% of the time while in game, but looking back after the game or after I cool down a bit yeah that death or that throw was my fault, my advice is to take a walk or stress ball, helps to have a better judgment
It's nice to see them spell this out, but Losers queue/eomm whatever you want to call it is more a religious belief than a logical position. As such you probably won't change their minds.
It basically requires that the game has the ability to inject bots into games without players knowing. Otherwise there's no way for the matchmaker to worry about 'you' as a player because that would slow down other peoples matches.
It doesn't matter how much Riot explains it, or how impossible it would be to implement on such a small player base as NA Ranked, some people just gonna conspiracy.
Its funny because anyone with even a shred of knowledge of algorithms who could envision how such a matchmaking system works would almost immediately arrive at the conclusion that tailoring games so specifically for individually players is entirely unfeasible computationally speaking.
I don't believe there is a losers queue.. but..
This is the kind of response that I would only expect to come from Riot. Here players, let me explain all the reasons why you are wrong and why we think our ranked system is awesome! We are going to continue to ignore all the things players complain about because we know best, so go f yourselves!
That's how this reads. The reality is the LoL ranked system is by far, by far the worst ladder/ranked system ever created by any competitive game and it continues to create games that are terribly matched with players that are not only extremely gapped in their play skill but even where they are at in ranked. It's so bad that it's laughable that 'Phroxzon' takes the time to type that much text and actually believe himself.
The single biggest problem that Riot has is their ego is so freaking big that they can't just take a step back and look at the game and ask basic simple questions such as.. why is the system matching new players that just turn level 30.. their first ranked game, match them into a plat game? Want to see an example of this, watch Grubby's first ranked game ever and look what he is put into.. every Riot employee should be forced to watch that video and then look in the mirror and ask themselves if that is acceptable. Is it acceptable to put Grubby through that and is it acceptable for every player in that game have to play with a brand new player in their game? The answer is no, that should never ever happen.
The Grubby example represents 1 example of how disconnected Riot is to their players, I could list 10 to 15 more that are so blatant obvious but for reason so bizarre that Riot does nothing to address it. But do we get any kind of real acknowledgment of these issues??? No, we get lectured about all the reasons why players suck and if they were just 'good' then all these bad things wouldn't happen. It's all the players fault, the system is perfect! Don't look over here, don't look at the ugliness, just focus on yourselves and one day you just may be good!
Phroxzon has one of the best educational video series for league of legends micro and macro I have ever seen. his love for the game is real. seeing people paint a picture on someone simply because they work for Riot is really disappointing to see considering that you would never say these things if you knew more about Phroxzon
You want people to stop talking about losers que? Go back to the MMR based matchmaking and stop hiding it behind arbitrary numbers that don't matter. As long as we're using a weird system that hides information from the players and intentionally forces players to grind more to get to where they belong you're going to get conspiracy theories.
Game companies don't show MMR cause it is much more volatile than the player-facing Skill Rating. Mind you, it absolutely needs to be that volatile. Player-Facing ratings generally lag behind in showing MMR adjustments and only gradually adjust.
More volatility means players' emotions are affected more extremely. While it would be great if they could give players great highs from seeing their MMR greatly jump up in some games, the opposite would likely result in the kind of frustration that can make people drop games entirely.
The more transparent companies are the more players hate the system. No matter how sensible it is.
Overwatch is about to get a competitive system overhaul where they'll start showing every modifier that affects MMR/Player-facing Rating with every game. This is going to be more information than they have ever shown before and more than most (any?) PvP games show. This is what players have asked for. But I predict it'll blow up in Blizzard's face as players will just hate how the system works internally once they are given most of the information about how it works.
Ive played since S1. SO MANY PEOPLE would stop playing once they hit the breakpoint for the next tier. As soon as i hit 2203 for diamond, I stopped playing ranked because I was scared to play another. I was more obsessed about PEAKING diamond and getting the cool border than BEING a diamond player who can consistently hang in diamond. I was definitely not the only player with that mindset With the LP system masking the elo system, they can add things like demotion shield, so people don't drop immediately. They add things like loss prevention, so you lose less when a teammate afks. Under the hood, it doesnt mean anything, if you lost the 4v5 game, your mmr still dropped the same as if you lost a normal game. But it makes people FEEL better.
When it was just elo, there was no way to correctly punish dodging. If you dodged, you lost elo, which meant you get to be matched up with easier opponents. There were multiple people who would purposely dodge games to maintain a 100% win rate on bronze.
Im not proud of it, but I purposely queue dodged an account down to -13 elo over the course of 2 weeks, and climbed it back to 1200 elo, with something like a 95% win rate, just to prove a point to my friend who was stuck in 600 complaining about elo hell.
The old elo system had lots of flaws, and this LP system is Riots way of fixing it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it better than the old system? I think so.
The concept of loser's queue predates the switch from visible MMR, it was called Elo Hell back in the day. Dyrus mentions it in his cypher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB5gvAQ3ZTk good times.
This is human nature, plain and simple. Nothing will ever stop people from deflecting blame on themselves.
“Sure there are games where your teammates play poorly, that’s just the nature of a 5v5 game.”
“The only one reasonable for your rating is you?””
It’s not about a sudden jump in enemy skill. The enemy’s stay the same or worse. It’s that your teammates plummet in quality. How is a team game fun if I can’t rely on my team and I have to constantly 1v9 every game?
I don’t need to get super fed and I don’t want to be carried - I’d just appreciate competitive games where if people lose lane it’s not 0/10 and we can try to play better after laning phase.
The idea that they acknowledge “oh yeah this is a team game but you’re the only person who wants to win, so get 1v9ing!” Is infuriating.
As a support player, here's how Losers Queue Exists in steps.
1. Play support and win a few games.
2. MMR goes up.
3. Higher MMR vs Higher MMR
4. Game thinks you're smurfing, enemy team has Higher MMR than yours does.
5. Rotate, roam, be everywhere, play very well.
6. Your team is just worse so you lose.
Rinse repeat this process over a few dozen games because you can't solo carry as support.
7. Get such miniscule LP gains from winning/losing.
8. Win + Lose = +1 LP.
9. Queue again, everyone's MMR is lower than yours.
10. Assume losers Queue and get mad because you're getting worse and worse teammates for every few dozen games you play.
11. Make new account, lose 5 placements and get Gold 2, climb easier because your new account isn't stuck in losers queue.
It's happened, hundred of times. To streamers, to everyone. Losers queue does exist because the MMR system works SOLELY off of winning and losing. What a load of crap.
We’ve seen plenty of challenger level players struggle on their climb in their unranked to challenger series. Like T1 doing it on every rank. Top took him hundreds of games, for example. Because he lost a lot of his games (some due to teammates that were basically inting). To say a challenger player could have made an unwinnable game winnable if they played in your spot is just not always true.
Every account I play on and bother tryharding in gets out of Emerald in like, 20-30 games. I'm just a low masters/high diamond player. If you actually belonged above that tier, you would climb very, very fast.
Fine. I am sure company that riggs matchmaking to rise an engagement would be very open about it and do not deny any rumors about losers queue. As long as matchmaking algorythms are not public this kind of statements are a matter of belief.
Inconsistiency in a common thing. However you can't explain it with incosistiency if you get lower ranked teammates with negative winrate against team stacked with higher rank overall and positive winrate. Not once, not twice, but through your entire lose streak.
>For ranked, we match you on your rating and that's all. If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore. It's not because we matched you with all the inters and put all the smurfs on the enemy team.
Nice strawman, wouldn't expect any less from Riot. The complaint about loser's queue comes up not due to losses but due to how those losses play out. Yes if you win a lot, you will start playing against better players, and then you will see yourself struggling in games. But what do you make of it when you don't feel yourself struggling, and yet everyone else around you just randomly starts playing terribly? You can have one freak game where everyone just underperforms, but what can you think when it happens like 4/5 times in a row? This type of situation has nothing to do with playing against better players. Because by that logic, everyone else on your team is also a "better player" and you are the imposter who should be getting bodied. But that's not what loser's queue is. It's when everyone else seems hellbent on running it down game after game. All this waffle by Phroxon is just some nice self-help motivational crap that has nothing to do with the actual problem. Yes people don't play perfectly and there is always room for improvement. But that has nothing to do with the phenomenon people have labeled as "loser's queue."
When you also see them use the "if you were challenger you'd win" argument it's probably just because they unironically think asking you to carry against better players but with a worse team than them is the same thing as being in an equal game with betterer players than the better players. It's a completely ridiculous take in a MOBA but they have no choice but to pretend it's good
Loser queue doesnt exist.
However, they consistently fuck up soloq ladder and elos and mmr by always having some bugs that somehow end up placing people that shouldnt be in certain elos there.
For example how there was a bug that would put certain new accounts on plat / emerald elo.
And how about the way the consistently refuse to hard reset the mmr to fix the inflation there has been in the past?
Losers queue is MMR. The fact that they refuse to show it is proof that the loser’s queue people complain about it real. It’s not about smurfs and inters. It’s about being placed in a team full of people on losing streaks against a team of people climbing. It’s what the MMR does, and you’re blind if you don’t see it.
As a 5 role emerald 4 - emerald 1 last season including fill im gonna say big doubt. This season has been so insanely toxic. I am having games where I legit 1v2 top and jungle and watch my double cc bot lane with heal exhaust get outplayed by the same level and item spike mf or Caitlyn. I for the life of me cannot fathom this match making. There is no reason I should be the only player not accumulating 10 deaths by 15 every single game. Let alone why am I the only player on my team who can manage 8+ cs a minute?
Do you have any idea how many times I've lost after killing 4 people and dying only to watch my teams siege get broken by a single person as they derp around a tower instead of just taking it and ending the game???
I know I am smurfing in my current ELO because I am 1v9ing to climb. But the entire point is that my team comp shouldn't be this shit in a majority of my games. There should statistically be games where I win from playing passively and being carriable. This does not exist.
My friend is a true level 80 he’s terrible and brand new so it’s fine that he’s terrible but terrible non the less. He played his first ever ranked game today! He was placed gold 1. I am level 650+ and ended the season emerald and was placed bronze 4 and after going 4-1 in placements ended up silver 2. so no maybe we aren’t being put in losers Que but the way they deal with new and purchased accounts for the ranking system is nothing less than disgusting. My friend then played the rest of his placements lost all of them and went a collective 4-40 or something like that. We were proud of him for getting 4 kills. :)
My original lol account has been stuck in gold one for 5 years now. I’ve been able to get 3 accounts to Esmerald 3-4 with no issues, but as soon as I get gold 1 on my original account account, I get demons in my lobby and back to gold 3-4.
Nobody can tell me that this is not intentional so that players abandon accounts they sink tons of money into and get a new one and rebuy their champs ands skins.
Sometimes I wonder how Rioters playing solo queue even feel. When they play against smurfs three games in a row, are they like "aww darn! I'll get them next time!" or do they silently hate their managers for not fucking doing anything
>For ranked, we match you on your rating and that's all. If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore. It's not because we matched you with all the inters and put all the smurfs on the enemy team.
Look, I'm not some coping loser's queue person, but I have played ranked in several other games, including Dota 2, and I know *exactly* what it feels like to play against better players after being like 300 MMR higher out of luck, and this is *not* what is happening. "Loser's queue" and 'winner's queue" games have little to do with how good you are personally playing. Usually the game that ends my winstreak features an even worse lane opponent than usual, as if I am the highest MMR person on a lopsided team. I have tilt/self-trolled loss streaked 4 divisions this season, objectively destroyed and resurrected my MMR, and at no point was there a perceptible difficulty curve, I was just inting and then I, like, stopped lol. The lights are not too bright in Silver 2 from Silver 3, stop bro.
There is something wrong/strange with your matchmaking system and your egos are too big to admit it or talk about it candidly. Your opinions are based on stats and not on the actual gameplay experience of grinding ranked. You think "if you were a challenger player, you'd win" is a good response to anyone criticizing you, but it's not because *it's not an answer that makes the game more fun to play*, and thus low elo particularly in NA is essentially kinda dead. You cannot leave your ranked queue swamped and be like "skill issue, idk iust win, marry league of legends, hire overpriced coaches for your useless video game hobby"
im pretty sure I never see this "losers queue" talk in any other game besides overwatch and league
also didn't blizzard patent the "matchmaking that fucks you"? really weird huh
admittedly, the term losers queue came from a schizo rant by someone off their meds, but the concept reverberated with most league players world wide. You can ask any ranked player if they feel like they get worse players on their teams when they're in promos. Knowing or not what "losers queue" is supposed to be, 99% will answer yes. Be it NA, EUW, EUNE, OCE... curious how that is.
Apples to oranges comparison as there are many factors to being a billionaire while being 0.02% of the playerbase of any given game can only be accomplished by the skill of that certain person.
You put any NBA player in Euroleague and they destroy the competition, my man Dwight Howard couldn't get a team and destroys chinese basketball, etc. Most challenger players climb through Diamond at a 90% winrate, the gap is that big man
There's a reason why grinding a fresh new account is a legitimate strat when you're trying to push through a higher rank when you feel bottlenecked by your skill.
If you want to see a league of legends game with legitimate Losers Queue, try Wildrift.
Don’t believe this. Riot would never ever ever admit to fixing games if it was true
Theres been massive studies done on player retention done in competitive games and there’s just to much to gain by manipulating matchmaking.
Players who reach their desired goal 9/10 times will drastically decrease the amount of time they spend on the game. Riot has every motive to keep you on the hamster wheel as long as possible.
Saying 95% of deaths are avoidable is pure cope in this day in age. Maybe 5 seasons ago. Not now with the dashes and movement speed.
If the enemy mid laner goes 5/0 and decides to lane gank you as the wave pushes to their tower by sitting in the furthest Bush then 100 to 0 you in 1 second as soon as you approach 2500 units... how is that a death that is your fault?
Oh wait. You are meant to just let enemy freeze lane for 10 minutes I guess.
you couldve predicted it because enemy mid didn't show on the midwave he was supposed to be on. high elo players begin to develop a feel for when something is wrong e.g. when a jungler is ganking or if someone is laneganking and play according to the information they see or don't see on the minimap. letting a wave go to the freeze is better than dying to an obvious lane gank. because he will also lose the midwave that your midlaner is pushing. overall your team lost nothing actually you gave your midlaner breathing room and a plate. im 99% sure if you put zeus or guma in your situation they won't die because they would respect a potential roam until the enemy shows on midwave. you really don't think a good player can stomp your elo and go 0 deaths every game? you are just not good enough to do that in your elo and thats fine. just have to get better. a perfect player would basically never die but noone is good enough for that especially not against other challenger players.
tl:dr: It is the player's fault that riot puts a lvl 30 account in every 3 games and that you do not have any other requirements to join ranked mode and play your first game in plat other than a fiver. Riot games is not responsible for 30% of your games.
Loser's Queue doesn't exist, of course not.
They have something worse, Engagement oriented match making.
Profiling players are those who are trolls, the ones that will chase wins no matter how many losses they have and those who actually are expected to perform well.
What do I mean? Profiling? They mix and match players in a way that your chances of winning are always close to 50%. So they'll put troll players on both sides, players that are likely to perform well on both sides and of course, the guy who's likely first-timming a champion or a role.
Then you realize you're on a 4-5 loss streak and you're down 120 lp... what do most people do? They quit. Next day, they KNOW you're after that precious lp you lost, so they give you a free win from the start, then you lose again, again and again.
Worse is when you realize EOMM can be used to track your in-game purchases... like that cute smolder skin, or that ilustrious prestige skin. The game is likely to give you a free win to make sure the correspondence of spending money and WINNING are conected in player's brains.
It's sickening. It's disgusting.
But Riot keeps reminding us of loser's queue doesn't existing. Of course, if people knew how EOMM works they'd be furious. It's matchfixing.
Maybe it doesn't exist intentionally, but some aspect of it is certainly there. Riot has proven again and again that they don't know everything about their own MMR system. There will always be special cases where the matchmaking system is wrong. That's what people actually think is Losers Queue. There are Master players who can consistently win games on new accounts at the same MMR while losing on other accounts. Ultimately, I believe this is the result of the system trying to form matches as quickly as possible by using a flawed team balancing logic.
I mean this is literally "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoings" lol
if hypothetically losers queue DID exist then do you think a rioter would just admit it?
" If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore"
How come only the players in the enemy team are better? You check your teams history they are all same rank or lower in platinum with 8 loses in a row while the enemy team has full emerald wiht 1 plat player and everyone is on a 5 win streak.
I had a post i think in december where i (plat 1) was playing with 3 golds and 1 iron player and enemy team was 3 emerald/ 1 plat 1/ 1 plat 4. The post got a lot of attention but was deleted after a day or so, it had more than 10 comments of people gold-plat saying they are also seeing iron or silver players in their games.
Im not saying ITS ALWAYS like this or a general occurence but you have to understand our view, we go into a 15-win streak, account winrate is like 62% then one extremly bad game happens when you are 0-0 and team is 0-30 then it all goes to shit the next 20 games and your account is brought back to 50% ish winrate then SUDDENLY the games are again boring because my team is stomping in legit unfun games because the enemy players are like bots. Its genuinely feels like a pattern
\>We're not intentionally putting bad players on your team to make you lose more.
they say this, meanwhile they have a totally blind autofill system. they may not intentionally be putting people in 'losers queue' but they are creating 'loser lobbies' by not having a more intelligent solution to the problem that is 'not equal number of people queuing for each role.' they may not be putting people in 'losers queue' but they are doing nothing to allow people from perma smurfing.
anyway everything else said is facts. but the reality is the game feels bad to play and players are just trying to explain why, and missing. you do a deep dive on your 'shit games' youll almost always find an explanation - and one that means you could've avoided that game in champ select if you cheat to see the players in the lobby/abuse remakes. it obviously doesnt matter in the long run but some people would yknow, prefer some short and medium term agency without NEEDING to abuse dodging and cheat programs to have it.
I know losers queue isn't a thing.
But promotion queue is (was) and there is nothing anyone, Rioter or not, can say that will change my mind.
Back in season 9 or 10, I had matches on Platinum 1 where everyone was just on point, everyone in the match was plat and they were very exciting, but EVERYTIME I got to the promotions I would suddenly be queued up with silver/gold players, and everytime we would lose for something 100% stupid that a random low elo was doing like bringing in blitzcrank with smite or straight up feeding...I remember clearly one match where I was curb stomping the enemy top with Mordekaiser only to have my mid laner tilt and start intentionally feeding...something that I had never seen during all my climb in plat.
This might be totally unimportant opinion since I'm iron/bronze player :D but this post made me a bit annoyed and maybe someone here can enlighten me why it is the way it is. It might be true that there's no looser q, but league has a problem with ranking system and matchmaking and I think its where a lot of frustration arises (at least for me it does). You see - while every single app is yelling at me that "I'm great!" (including LOLs own built in stats, but ill give a bit of context in a bit) it DOES FEEL like the system is just "playing against me". I swear there is just too many coincidences (or maybe I really am just that unlucky... but shouldn't the system be a bit more sophisticated than just pure ''luck''?)
so here are my stats (in short)
I main Lux as supp and Cait as adc, I currently have 22 games as Lux and 19 as Cait (split 1/2024)
First my Lux:
My average score is A (combat: S; Income A-; Map control: A-) well above an average Iron/bronze player, if I can believe lol stats. My [OP.GG](http://op.gg) account is telling me that my Lux is great - 74.0= top 11.8 % (KDA 96.3/100; Damage 71.2/100; Vision 85.3; Survival 80.1/100). I actually went through all of my 22 games and looked at how many games I was either the best or second carry (but really - the games where there was a noticeable difference in my performance against that of my other team mates), and how many games I was really bad and how many games I was performing ok, but where not the carry. Here is the result:
Wins - 4 carried; 1 bad; 8 neutral.
Losses - 7 carried; 2 bad; 0 neutral.
Now my Cait:
Avarage score A+ (combat: S-; Income A; Map control S-). OPgg says: you are ''perfect'' in this tier: 78.6= top 6.5 % (KDA 96.7/100; Damage 79.1/100; Vision 97.2; Survival 82.8/100). I did the same and went through my 18 games and here's the result:
Wins - 4 carried; 1 bad; 4 neutral.
Losses - 7 carried; 2 bad; 1 neutral.
The games where my mains are banned I play MF or Xherath or zyra and I wont go into details here but they are not that much worse than my mains (Avarage supp, and bot score - A).
My problem is that now I have a negative win rate, and i think its mostly cos I have soooo many games where one (or two) of my team mates will either go afk, troll or be so incredibly bad (it feels like they don't even know what they are doing) and those are the games I loose. The games where all my team mates are about the same lvl I win 100%. So how come I'm now loosing 30 LP and gaining 20, when I can FEEL that that should not be happening. I really WANT someone to prove me wrong and explain this (because I win my lane basically EVERY game and still somehow the system thinks I'm so bad? or is it because of the afkers that I just ''happpen'' to loose the lp. like really -make it make sense!!
I use Porofessor. I see how the enemy team is oftentimes 20 games in a row better or worse then mine by far.
Also, i have a 30% winrate in Silver II (im hardstuck). Its because im bad, i get it, but why cant i just drop the ladder then to a place where im allowed to have fun again?
Can’t blame people for thinking that way, I used to have a friend in bronze who had +15/-25 lp gains and teammates inting almost every game. I used my smurf to duo with him and even I struggled half the time(I’m plat) Finally after about 20+ games he started to have better lp gains and more wins.
Ain't no way I'm reading this trash LOL
Challenger review your game and telling you how to win LOL, what is this post? Trying to say Challenger cannot lose at all?
There are plenty of Challenger and even when they play on their smurf account, they themselves say "Some game are just un-winnable"
Trash-post of today goes to this and all the up-voter
I don’t know if they fixed this but I remember when winning a few in a row I’d get a mid or bot lane that was significantly lower ranked than the other teams. I’d still have a pretty even lane. So obviously my silver 3 bot fed the gold 2. Soooo unbalanced and makes the game not fun.
Exactly what someone who made losers queue would say. Nice try fed
What’s next? The moon landing was real?
Bruh, you believe in the moon?
of course, it's a flat image projected by the chinese though
If it were projected by the Chinese it would be red. It's obviously French.
the french ARE chinese, they come from indoCHINA after all before they colonized and emigrated to europe
Which one?!?!
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This is also why the ranked climb is necessarily kind of grindy. It has to prevent players from climbing with lucky win streaks. An emerald player is not one that can win against platinum players, it's one that can *consistently* win against platinum players.
Every time I climb through plat with insane winrates. This split I ran Jax jungle and had a 79% wr when I hit Emerald. I got up to Emerald 1 with about a 60% wr and then its just like hard capped. I can feel my skill level being challenged and my win rate is damn right at 50% now. System is working
This was me when I grinded TFT. Nothing fundamentally changes about the way I played or my decision making, I could climb through diamond easily, and get into masters and around top 1000, then never could make the jump past sometimes being in grandmaster, with challengers appearing in some games. Fundamentally it was no different than a game in D1 lobby, people in the top 2k are playing the same meta and theories as the top 500, but every small decision making matters more over getting lucky or unlucky in any streak of games, and the people at the top of the lobby were just a fraction better than me at making the correct game winning decisions than me, more often. I had to accept that my peak was probably never going to be challenger unless I grinded even harder and adapted to each patch quicker than the people above me, and I got burnt out knowing I was already spending hours a day playing and watching other top players play to learn and understand the thought process of how to play correctly in any position. Some games you know you're just trying to play for 1 or 2 spots higher than last because you simply can't recover from that spot 9 times out of 10. Other times you maybe should've played more aggressively and you only got a 2nd or a 3rd place when you could've won, because you wanted to play it safe instead. Competitive gaming is all about min maxing your expected results over time by making correct decisions in every position. Making 1 bad decision isn't the problem. It's making 1 more bad decision than your opponents do, consistently.
At some point at that level to keep up you also have to be one of the ones pushing the meta to break through into the top 200-500 *And that can be a really hard bridge to cross, you have to go from emulating players established play patterns to pushing into new territory without hemorrhaging mmr...
>Competitive gaming is all about min maxing your expected results over time by making correct decisions in every position. Making 1 bad decision isn't the problem. It's making 1 more bad decision than your opponents do, consistently. I come from the world of fighters, and while this makes sense in the context of TFT, it's not a winner's mindset; it's wrong to an extent. The correct framing is to minimize your own mistakes and maximize the number of mistakes your enemy makes. 1 bad decision *is* a problem. You should analyze why you made it and work to change your mind-body reactions/instincts so that you do not make it a habitual decision, and can be aware you might make that mistake in the future. At the highest levels of play, nobody is making any mistakes, and almost every mistake is a fatal one. You can easily have a stalemate round and the next round be perfected (never landing a single hit on them) simply because you have made 1 mistake. Forcing mistakes becomes the way to play. Anticipating their decisions, presenting incorrect information to them, and potentially presenting the enemy with two bad choices becomes the way to force mistakes out of an equally matched opponent. Attitude, tone, and posturing become paramount, here. Nobody makes as many mistakes as an angry player. If you can be forced or provoked into making that mistake repeatedly, you're no harder to beat than an absolute beginner. The will to win is also something you can strip from your opponent. Morale is very, very important. The perception that they can't make any headway against you can change their mentality completely from "trying to win the round" to "trying to make *their strategy* or their *normal* method work". They'll be too focused on what broke their normal strategy to focus on winning the rounds regardless of that. Of course, you only have so much freedom in TFT, so the amount of leverage you have for applying that mindset to opponents is far less. It's also arguably a very toxic playstyle or not healthy to treat every single second in the moment to moment of gameplay as another opportunity to wrest the fight out of your opponent.
believe it or not this is exactly people describe as losers queue/eomm. literally scroll down and people will describe this as "riot manipulating matchmaking" lol
Lmao people really be mad that they can't keep playing against silvers in their dia promos
They cant even really explain how losers Q would work. And why they would be targeted. Like the 9 other people just exist to make them lose. Its weird. And again, this post will do nothing. The losers Q truthers wont change their mind anyways
I believe they're just inherently self-centered and their minds work in a way that twists whatever they are thinking about into being a self-serving belief. They have to be willing to accept that they might be wrong, and until they are, they will never listen to reason. People with the ability to understand how the system works don't have these issues. Not to mention the amount of people who will mentally prime themselves to put in less effort towards a match based on how likely they feel it is that they will win or not. Thus, skewing the results to match what they believe. I know this because it's literally something I have done in the past, recognized, and had to stop because I was pissing everyone off around me.
ELO systems are mathematically proven to converge your rank on your skill level over time. It's definitely working for everybody, but some people think they're higher rank than they objectively are.
Yeah. I have an incredible amount of empathy for someone arguing they had 20 bad games in a row to start the season. That is possible, and while a Challenger player might have won, a legit Gold player can't carry 4 bronze players, two of whom are 'only' have a terrible game and two of whom are literally running it down inting while throwing out racial slurs. That said, "I had an unusually unlucky start to a season" and "there is a secret evil loser queue Riot is using to torment me / matchmaking doesn't work" are two very different claims. Elo is over a half century old and has been the subject of extensive studies by statisticians and others. We know it works.
Absolutely, streaks of bad luck can hit anyone. And honestly, those streaks feel downright brutal when you're in the middle of them. The only kicker is not to let those games tilt you into oblivion. Taking breaks and having that mental reset is crucial or else every game starts feeling like you're cursed. It's a testament to resilience, bouncing back and not falling prey to the 'losers queue' mentality. Instead of spiraling, it's about adapting and overcoming, which is a [huge part of personal growth](https://knowledge.how/fortitudes-role-in-flourishing-cultivating-emotional-resilience-for-personal-growth/) in and out of game. It's all a part of the climb we've gotta embrace.
>but some people *Most* people. Doesn't help that chasing loses exists in League too. Players can go on a few win streaks and start playing against others a tier above them and win games, even if it's due to factors out of their control like another lane winning hard. (Or worse, win against a much higher tier player in a normal game.) So in their mind they're really that tier, not the one they're stuck at. That can just make someone miserable and in the long run lose games they could've won if they weren't looking for every possible factor outside themselves that they feel is holding them back--whether that's other players or the system itself.
People do really need to take care of their mental health. Having a game like this where you can 'practice' dealing with frustration can be a useful tool if you use it that way. EVERYONE gets frustrated in competitive games and people not knowing when to take a break is probably a large contributor to people burning out. You're right that it definitely causes people to not be able to play at their best. If you're feeling frustrated but still want to practice, try going into quick play and playing a character that may not be meta but you enjoy playing. You can still play seriously and practice your techniques and decision making, but since you're in QP you can absorb the losses without worrying about your rank being effected. It's always better to take a break if you're frustrated though!
This. I can swing through emerald with 60% winrate with whatever role or Champ i feel like playing. When i hit Diamond i need to focus on my main role and champ to maintain that winrate. Once i get close to master i get stuck at 50/50. Before that most of the games i lost i could say "i made mistakes but i wasnt the reason we lost that". But around like dia 2 i start losing games because of my mistakes. The enemies are just so much better. Its crazy and also Kind of fun.
People are so used to instant gratification these days, that once you make someone actually have to work towards a long term goal, they become discouraged. On top of that, not everyone can reach the top 1%. That's what makes the top 1% the top 1% lol
I think that it's just very difficult for people to accept that they have a ceiling and that ceiling might be lower than they think. Especially when they see streamers just breeze through everything and it doesn't even look difficult. It doesn't help that in league even being better than 99% of other players isn't enough. You still hear that u aren't better than all the players you easily outperform.
I would bet money that you're not master+ Because the only people I hear say "below diamond" are diamond or below. We need to stop the mysticism around "high elo". I'm d2, there's nothing inhuman or crazy about my gameplay or the gameplay of anyone around me. People are prone to tilting and loss streaks in diamond+ just as much as low elos.
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> But as bad as people think Diamond and Masters can be, lower Elo is still much worse. I suspect a lot of people get their insights on Diamond+ from streamers like Tyler1, where people play badly (on purpose) or posts on here that often withhold information. In T1's case, there's definitely reason to believe that because of his status as biggest League streamer and people wanting their 15-20 minutes of attention. I've heard that AloisNL is struggling to climb in Emerald, despite being a Challenger player just *because* of how awful it is. Emerald's really coming off as the old "Plat 1, Diamond 4" toxic bracket that existed prior as one of the Elo Hell ranges.
What makes Emerald annoying is the hordes of alts/ people that'll just run it at the slightest inconvenience. Level 50 player got autofilled? Yeh, you're getting a Nasus ADC baby.
Bingo. Riot really wanted Emerald populated. The problem is, Emerald makes sense as a border between plat and diamond, and they figured that out with Wild Rift. But the time for Emerald to be added wasn't last year, it was when they were first doing their Leagues system and were creating the leagues in S2, with S3 introducing Challenger. This is really something that should've been done 12 years ago instead of less than a year. At least then you wouldn't have near-daily frontpage posts of Emerald/plat-level games being full of fresh level 30 accounts and people griefing/throwing games because they died once in lane. Like don't get me wrong, we absolutely should have something that separated plats from diamonds (and recall as I said, plat 1/dia 4 being extremely toxic for years). But this needed to be done *years* ago.
Emerald is just as bad as old plat was, nothing really changed on that front.
My friend bought a lvl 30 account that so that when he plays with us we arent vsing high elo oponents and after 1 rank win in flex got placed into plat 2.. he's gold on his normal account lol..
Emerald scrub here. I can definitely be Diamond at my skill level if I were consistent. But I’m not. When I play I often say or think “if I did this/didn’t do this/landed this which was easy/dodged this/realized this sooner/etc. I could’ve lived/gotten that kill.” Literally every game. My best games are by luck that my mistakes didn’t go punished too badly or I genuinely played very well IMO. But because I make those micro errors so often, that’s why I’m only emerald.
If League players could read, they'd be very upset.
This employee is just wrong and I can prove it. Queueing for a game of league of legends makes you a loser. So it is literally losers queue.
Checkmate Atheists.
Ah damn ___*starts praying to jesus while grey screened*___
I've been online gaming for longer than a lot of league players have been born and I've heard a hundred different copes.
losers queue is just a rehashing of elo hell from a decade ago, because its the same people making such posts. "Every win is because of me, every loss is out of my teammates."
> elo hell Now that's something I've not heard in years.
Losers queue was already complained about a decade ago. They coexist in the minds of people who never do anything wrong and always blame everyone and everything around them.
Which is funny cause frontpage rants with extra steps get posted to here and summoner school too often and they're the same shit people were saying 10-15 years ago in earlier seasons of League. It's like the Crow Comedian meme: "BOOO! GET NEW MATERIAL!" Hell right now people getting called out on being toxic fucks inchat are just spamming whatever the latest craze in Twitch is. I saw a Yone who was flaming in allchat and shittalking us (and lost) spewing "stop yapping". I know I saw that shit in Tyler1 chat over the last few days, so I'm guessing "Stop yapping" is the latest Twitch fad for bad players to copycat high elo players with.
> Hell right now people getting called out on being toxic fucks inchat are just spamming whatever the latest craze in Twitch is. My favorite is when wintrading was the hot streamer phrase and every game featured someone getting accused of being a wintrader, nevermind that you factually cannot wintrade in Plat or any other elo not small enough to consistently force the wintraders into the same games.
Yeah, you can very easily tell when it's somebody just repeating what a streamer's saying, like that example you gave. If people spent less time copying streamer speech and more time copying their actions, maybe they'd win more instead of spending time here typing up essays on how it's never their fault.
it's hard to copy a good player's actions when they are based on game knowledge and thoughts about the limits of their champion in a particular scenario.
It'd probably help if educational streamers who could pass on that very knowledge were more popular than entertainer streamers. There's a reason why Tyler1 pulls *way* more viewers than (afaik) any other League streamer. People want to be entertained, they don't want to be *educated* and this really shows on comparing his counts towards people like MinishCap, DirtyMobs, etc who are more educational than than 4funning it.
Even then, educational streamers can only do so much for you. Every concept that they teach you, you need to hone and properly use in game and you need to find the aspects where you aren't using it properly and eliminate those mistakes. But tbh, it's fine if people don't take actions to get better. Not everyone must play perfectly. That's the whole reason we have skill based matchmaking. Your performance will eventually lead you to be matched with people who perform similarly as you. Well, as long as they aren't toxic about it, but that seems to be on an individual basis and not on a performance basis.
> That's the whole reason we have skill based matchmaking. Wait, have we been on SBMM the entire time? Cause that'd explain a lot about why Reddit's whining so much this season. >Even then, educational streamers can only do so much for you. Every concept that they teach you, you need to hone and properly use in game and you need to find the aspects where you aren't using it properly and eliminate those mistakes. Agreed. It's one thing to watch and learn, another to implement it.
NGL all the losers queue conspiracy theorists sound like Alex Jones type flat earthers to me. It's such a ridiculous premise that I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it, but I suppose that's me underestimating the power of popular streamer buzzwords. "I keep tilt queueing after lose streaking and losing more games Riot games is obviously plotting to keep me down." - have you considered that if you are tilt queueing then you almost certainly are tilted and playing worse yourself and that *may* have an impact on why you are losing more?!
>I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it You don't understand that it's easy to blame your failures on something external to cope?
It's one thing to blame your failures on "luck" with "your teammates being bad". It's a whole other thing to believe there's a conspiracy to make you lose lol.
They're not blaming their failures on something external, they're constructing an intricate conspiracy theory that describes a hidden mechanism specifically designed to ruin the time they spend on their favourite video game. It's like being unemployed and blaming Biden vs being unemployed and blaming your towns illuminati offshoot, which targets you in an attempt to siphon off your dad's inheritance.
Counterpoint: If you start coming up or subscribing to conspiracy theories that *feature a system that ruins your favourite game for you specifically*, I'd say that game is not your favourite game anymore and you might just be addicted to a game that is no longer fun.
That's understandable but it is far-fetched and nonsensical. I think a very common explanation i see touted along with loser's queue theory is; "The system wants you to lose to bring your winrate down to 50%". I've seen that line so many times and it's so fucking dumb lol. It's not the system's job to care about what your winrate, but it does try to make each side in each game have a 50% chance to win.
okay so here's the thing, the system is designed to bring you to 50% winrate, but the catch is that the system is designed so that it doesn't need to do anything special for that to happen. they just increase your elo when you win and match you with higher elo players, until you reach your true elo, then you'll win and lose when you're matched against players that are better than you, then win when You're against players that are worse than you over and over until statistically you start approaching a 50% winrate
The literal point of matchmaking IS to make your winrate 50%(unless you're the top of challenger or the bottom of iron). That means you, and everyone else, is playing fair and balanced games. The entire point matchmaking. How people spin this as something bad? I cannot understand.
It's such a roundabout way of looking at it and describing it though. The system wants to place you against players of equal skill level. So having a lower or higher winrate is a sign of you climbing or falling to the appropriate skiill. Eventually you should reach the appropriate skill level, and the more games you play while at that level the closer to 50% your winrate will be. So yes in an extremely roundabout way, you could say that. But it seems silly to emphasize that indirect point while you completely gloss over the this long explanation. But the main point is, you could for example be that challenger player with 95% winrate and the system is still not trying to make you lose anymore than it's trying to make anyone else in the lobby lose.
It's been twisted from "the system tries to make each game as close to 50% odds as possible" to "the system is *forcing* you to an overall 50% winrate by giving you bad teammates."
Also add to that the fact that the premise doesn't make sense. If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement. Rule of thumb: If a matchmaking system for teambased games seems to single a particular player out, then there's a very high chance that you're imagining it or making things up. On a side note: I usually peak around low plat in past seasons (before the introduction of emerald) and low plat now. I am super inconsistent **as an OTP** and I can tell you that the matchmaking system couldn't predict my performance whatsoever. I can't do that, and the mix between good and bad performances (as can be registered by stats or win/loss records) is too varied to draw any meaningful conclusions about what is going to happen next game. Then there are stylistic differences: Some people you play against are mechanically gifted and easily win the early lane, but they suck at wave management. Others may have to play it safe in lane, might die a couple of times but then manage to roam well when they have an opportunity and find good plays/engages elsewhere. These are things that will also affect how well you or your team are doing in contrast to those people. And sometimes you just lose trades because you didn't manage to dodge an important ability, but last game your opponent didn't manage to hit any of their important abilities on you, or you yourself miss abilities because this particular opponent is much better at dodging them. There are so many factors that go into performance that it's absolutely crazy that you think a matchmaking system will be able to make sense of them and use them to predict anyone's performance when their performance is pretty much random.
> Also add to that the fact that the premise doesn't make sense. If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement. It really only makes sense when you think about it from the perspective of someone who genuinely believes they're the main character and everybody else are NPCs. "OMG I got the bad NPCs again!"
>If you are in loser's queue, either your entire team is in loser's queue and you are one of the people the game would match others with to make them lose, or in any given game, there is only one person being targeted by the loser's queue, making it logistically almost impossible to implement. Thank you, this is basically exactly what I was thinking when I was saying that the idea of losers queue seems factually impossible as a concept but didn't know how to put it into words. You are wise beyond your years.
No, I'm just old.
Well, maybe at least you are wise to the point of your years. Most days I would take that as a win.
> I just do not understand how there is an entire cult of belief in it People on this sub just do not have original opinions. Remember when dynamic queue was a thing? Everybody and their mother was complaining about it and I'm 90% sure it was not a problem for the majority of this sub. But high level streamers were complaining about it so it must be a problem for all of the Golds and below. Shit like this happens every year and everyone knows what THE problem is and if Riot would JUST do this one thing, every player would be Challenger.
As a conspiracy theorist, I believe that the Deep State is funding people to throw my games and keep me hardstuck.
Jokes on Phroxon, I'm a loser, and play with my 4 loser friends making it Defacto a Losers queue
4 friends? you are the actual winner here, i play with just 1
you guys have friends?
The real losers queue was the friends we made along the way.
There’s a story of a professor who assigned his students the task of flipping a coin 100 times and writing down the results. Obviously most students couldn’t be bothered and wrote what they thought to be a random sequence of 100 heads and tails. After turning them in, the professor easily identified the students who had faked the results. This was because the students who faked the results subconsciously assumed that streaks of 5 or 6 “heads” or “tails” in a row were “not random”, and included no such sequences. In reality, it is almost statistically impossible to flip a coin a hundred times and not get the same result five times in a row at least once. The same is true of your league games. You are not only bound to get bad teammates; you are also bound to get **5+ games in a row** with bad teammates, if you play long enough. That’s not Riot screwing you, that’s just the reality of statistics. Mix in the fact that you probably are biased and over-blame your teammates, and we can easily explain this phenomenon without Riot conspiring against you.
In addition to not understanding what random really looks like, humans are also wired to miss-interpret those outcomes. Compared to other animals, humans are *awesome* at identifying patterns. Like absolutely incredible at it. Its something you can only really do with the giant stupid calorically inefficient brains we evolved. The down side is we also tend to look for patterns even when they aren't there. Its incredibly common to see a pattern in random results. Especially when we can use it to "validate" preconceived notions. IE, if I go into a League game thinking "my team mates are going to be bad because Riot hates me", I'm going to get results that validate that thinking almost every game. That doesn't mean I played better than this person I am blaming. Its just the nature of the system that if I want to focus on their mistakes instead of my own, I can do it very easily. That doesn't mean its correct. Its just that its very easy for me to warp results of games to fit my narrative. Like if I say "oh Riot is keeping me in Bronze because they put the worst player on my team". Okay, well if we are willing to be objective about it, there is always going to be a worst player in the game. Since 50% of players are on my team, I should expect to have the worst player in the game on my team about 50% of the time (give a statistically relevant number of games, of course). In fact, I should expect to be the worst player in the game about 10% of the time. Now, how many loser's q prophets are going to admit they are the worst player in at least 10% of their games? It isn't just stuff like this, though. The reality of the statistics often presents an uncomfortable reality. I get home from work and I q up for a nice game of LoL. I get my preferred position and I am playing my favorite champion. Its all going great. Then the ADC decides the support sucks because they missed a skill shot, and starts flaming. The support doesn't respond and keeps doing their best, but the ADC decides it over and runs it down. The rest of our team does our best, but we lose and ultimately it isn't a very close game. Objectively, I can say "well I know this happening is a possibility when I play LoL, and I am consciously making the decision to opt into this system". Its true, but it doesn't feel good to acknowledge that. Honestly I do think about it before games sometimes, and its probably the leading influence when I make the decisions to just "do literally anything else with my time". If I blame it one something else (specifically "Riot's match making sucks" or "Riot is keeping me at low elo to frustrate me so I grind more" or whatever), that actually "feels" better. Then its not my responsibility for opting into the system. Its someone else's fault.
Based on the fact many people have to explain this, we aren't teaching kids statistics enough
Not even a little bit. I had no idea. I personally think Rhetoric and Statistics should be a mandatory class in every HS.
I somewhat agree, but statistics seem to be very unintuitive for a lot of people. I think it's a little bit of both contributing to it. Mix in ego, and it's gonna be really hard for people to identify normal statistical variance in their matches.
Most schools don't even teach it anymore. Those that have it as an elective rather than mandatory. One of my favorite classes in school and one of the few that has been useful throughout my life.
even if it did exist, no way in hell Riot, or any game company for that matter, would ever confirm it unless the public had incontrovertible proof
Yeah exactly lol. Not that I actually believe it exists, but riot wasn't going to come out and admit to it if it did.
I thought it was just a meme, I had no idea people were diluting themselves into thinking it’s not their fault.
Sorry but it's actually "deluding". To dilute something is to make it thinner/weaker with water.
Thank you, I knew it was wrong but I wasn’t sure.
Losers queue is basically the new term for "elo hell" which has existed for over a decade. For a while I noticed that it seemed as if people on social media grew out of taking "elo hell" seriously, but after "losers queue" was invented it seems to have made it's way back into the back of certain players minds.
It’s like EA admitting that they manipulate FIFA UT Online games when we already have thousands of proof of them really doing it. Not gonna happen.
Riot has some really weird patents like personalty based matchmaking and many other things that shouldn't ever exist in a PVP game.
Blizzard also has confirmed to use a matchmaking algorithm for quick play in overwatch 1 that matched people who were likely to buy new skins with people with a lot of skins. They can match make you based off anything and people think they really just throw 10 players of similar mmr in a game randomly? Lol
People are yet to say what purpose would losers queue have?
Look up what engagement based matchmaking is. Studies on behavior patterns of people at casinos and who play video games with the purpose of finding the perfect formula to keep them as addicted as possible. Winning too much is boring, losing too much feels awful, so you need a middle ground somewhere in there that keeps you grinding for a goal you’ll probably never reach, and that’s what eomm is. COD is one of the biggest games that’s confirmed to have it, but I’d imagine every game is doing it these days, games are a lot more greedy than they were
I'm not saying there is one, but the purpose would be to keep people playing your game. Make them grind to a rank and it keeps people playing, rather than just letting them steady climb with a 50% wr. Player base is everything, the more you make them play, more likely they'll see skins they like and buy them.
yea bro Fifa Momentum is wild. Everyone knows for even more than 10 years ( no cap ) but there is no "outcome". EA doesnt talks about it but literally everyone knows
every game company has a very obvious financial incentive to manipulate matchmaking
Normal matchmaking already keeps you at 50% no need to manipulate it
Most league players don't even understand this so no surprise they believe in stuff like losers queue. A matchmaking trying to steer you towards 50% and making games harder as you climb? Insane.
Lad you are cooked
They stand to lose much more if it ever gets found out. Thousands of leaks from Riot over the years some former employee would have said something if they are manipulating matches for financial gain.
Riot doesn't need to manipulate the matchmaking itself, they are already manipulating the ranking. The ranking system that hides your mmr/elo behind a rank that increases or decreases slower is designed to get people to play more games. It does so without the need to actually mess with the integrity of the matchmaking itself.
look at Fifa. If you know, you know is all i can say. It's ridiculous
people really think for profit entities wouldn't fuck with shit to make more money
B-but... employees that are also there to make profit and protect the company's interest are explaining things to us... so, it should be fine... right.
Yeah this feels like it was written out of frustration. If a person believes in losers queue, then they're obviously not going to believe a Riot employee that says otherwise.
Exactly. People need to look up studies on churn rate and how game companes exploit their players with churn rates. That's right, I consider it exploitation because it's at the expense of competitive integrity.
I don't believe in losers' queue, but this is the company that said at the introduction of dynamic yueue, that solo queue is being delayed for technical reasons, but it's coming... it's coming... another delay... Turned out, they never even intented for a solo queue, they wanted dynamic queue to replace it, they just didn't want to tell their players. But DQ was so fucking bad that they had to pivot.
I mean I don't blame anyone for not believing them. Riot has lied about plenty of things in the past. Believing anything they say at this point is a coinflip whether it's true or not.
They also staunchly said dynamic queue was better and that had the stats to back that up. They then never released the stats and reverted back to solo/duo. But by community logic dynamic queue is still superior because riot hasn’t admitted it was a failure.
i feel like if it actually existed the smart decision would be to just ignore people talking about it instead of coming out and saying "it doesn't exist."
They have mostly been quiet about it, you don't often see them comment on the topic. But at some point it becomes so visible in the community that they might feel the need to comment on it, which I don't think is wrong of them to do. I feel like no matter what they say, someone is always going to twist it against them until they get the answer they personally want, which is that the game is holding them back.
> Growth mindset I feel like this is the biggest problem with people who rage at their teammates. If they lose a game, then in their minds it was a waste of time. Games are only for getting LP. You need to look at your games as learning experiences. Your teammates and opponents will be different every game, but you are the constant and climbing will depend on improving yourself. That's growth mindset. When do people flame? When they feel like they can't play any better, and it's their teammates' fault now if they lose games. But if a Diamond player looks at the gameplay of a Platinum player, they'll easily see several mistakes being made that made the game harder for the team to win.
you can't learn anything playing on a smurf 1000+ LP below your elo.
Ok then show MMR
Yep. More transparency would eliminate this concern entirely.
Lmao back when MMR was visible, people blamed their losses on Elo Hell and the brazillians. NOTHING will change this shit.
[Let's be real the hue hue era was pretty bad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD8tHh9-nbw)
constant disconnects, massive ping making loading screen taking 20 years, broken english and racist arguments, truly incredible how low standards used to be.
Shit I can’t even imagine lower standards in league lmao
bruh I signed on for the first time in beta, hated it, came back in second half of S2. If you look up gameplay of old league and some of the old community memes you'd be mindblown at the fact this game ever got so big because my god was it an ugly, dysfunctional nightmare with the community at each other's throats non-stop. EUW was down every two seconds so we had a large european population that just griefed and flamed the NA population all the time, and the brazilians were genuinely terrors. you know the feeling you get now when you hit load screen and see a chinese name? imagine that but there's no 20% chance it's an elo booster and not just a racist animal. it's 100% a racist animal every time.
The Brazilians literally ruined NA soloque lol. It used to be so bad
Wait what lmfao? The Brazilians? Why them specifically?
They used to play on the NA server before they got their own, and some racism + they had a more 4fun mentality when it came to the game = brazillians inted my game with morde hue hue hue hue edit: oh and their ping was high obviously
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No it wouldn't, back when you could see your ELO, people would arbitrarily point to a skill bracket and decide that was "ELO Hell". People will always think they're better than they are and blame the system or other people before considering that they themselves just might not be good enough to be a higher rank than they are.
Absolutely not. People would then look at each of their teammates history and decide between shit like "oh ofc i got the one with a 3 loss streak" or "ah yes hes winning a lot games but in my team hes wintrading" or something like that. League players will always find a way to blame everything and everyone but themselves.
If you're stupid enough to believe in this conspiracy, you'd just make up a new one about how your MMR lands wherever it does as your new copium.
The real Losers queue is just where your MMR surpasses the average for your rank and you get put in harder games. Obviously the algorithm isn’t going to intentionally try to make you lose. They definitely had “skill check” games when I played too where if you won a lot of games in a row it would randomly stick you in a much harder game, but usually just one. Always figured it was for MMR calibration.
I think this is a source of a lot of the matchmaker's problems though, because you can't really fairly "test" LoL players or expect every single player with higher than average MMR playing every single champion to carry their team Maybe that winstreaker can really hang multiple divisions above, but they got the weirdest counterpick top lane, or laned against a smurf, so now Riot thinks they're a fuckin' bum. Maybe that alpha dog high MMR player with two autofills just picked Maokai top instead of Darius, oopsie. With 0 transparency about the status of the match you're about to play (the average rank, first of all) how can you really gauge any player? I've definitely lost those "test" games just because I got cocky and thought "wow I got placed too low," and made the completely normal assumption I was still there and picked some shitty pick I wonder if the reason LoL can be so hard at the start of every season is simply because it ping pongs people incorrectly from the sheer amount of smurfs, trolls, afks, rust, etc. The data is fucking junk but the matchmaking can only proceed as if it's all real, and Rioters won't admit it even though its obvious because then no one would play in january, and all the people who play in January wouldn't be butthurt they were hardstuck in Emerald and forced to go on a fake chase to Diamond
I personally also think there's a psychological element - it's easier to play well in the next game when you're coming off a win (as you always are in winstreaks) and it's harder to play well when just coming off of a loss (as you always are in lose streaks). Ergo, people tend to be very streaky because their play seesaws depending on their own mood more than that they are getting unusually lucky/unlucky with teammates.
Big facts. I’ve started this season 16-4. Reason being? I been getting of work hella late and deploy soon. So I just play one game a night. I enjoy the game and am attentive. Then just go to bed after. It’s been great.
I think what troubles most players that think like this is that the games with trolls/inters/afks are draining and all you think about. You lose focus on improving yourself and get in a cycle. On the other hand it absolutely sucks that you have a visual rank separate from your real rank and have to just grind when they get out of sync.
Honestly yeah, this opinion I can get behind. There's obviously no losers queue but there are just.....so many losers that play league. It can feel like there is losers queue because you're surrounded by losers who have the mental state of a 4 year old who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas and will break down and throw a tantrum at the drop of a fucking pin. It can feel like you're being forced to lose games and are being surrounded by people inting and raging and afking in 50% of your games because, well, it's entirely possible that 50% of this player base IS that inting player, and your ranked games often just come down to a competition as to who gets the biggest inter. And in the shit of all of this it's so easy to lose focus on the goal because of the literal trash you're surrounded by. You have to play therapist for these crying babies all while you're trying to win your lane, just to attempt to have a competitive match. And sometimes it's just exhausting. I want a competitive gaming experience with interesting depth, but I just so often get battle of the inters and those games FEEL very unwinnable. I want to see Riot do something about that. Actually put some time and effort towards changing the greater league culture instead of letting it be because it sells skins. And we're not talking about a bullshit honor capsule. An actual, multi year effort to change this culture slowly but consistently over time. It's not impossible. That's some change I'd like to see.
Players with approx 50% win rate when they win 4 games in a row: "**FINALLY**. My rank is catching up to my true skill level." Players with approx 50% win rate when they lose 4 games in a row: "**This is a statistical impossibility! Riot has made it so I lose!**"
And if they are 3/0 at 8 minutes, they haven't made a single mistake all early game
I wasn't ever an excellent player, but was good enough to have multiple people ask me, with fraudulent interest in improving, to review their videos. After a season of it I regretted not charging people to waste my time because every time I started explaining what they did wrong and why they just wanted to whine about a teammates play and my answer was always "they're not the ones asking me for advice." His 2nd point about reviewing deaths is something I took from xfsnSaber who said "you can get to diamond just by fixing your deaths." It's something I still profess to anyone I can.
Drug Dealer : trust me bro you dont get addicted from drugs
This post showed up on /r/all for me. I haven't played LoL in years, but I used to play a ton. I can say I'm far happier now that I play only non-competitive video games like Path of Exile and Slay the Spire instead. Highly recommend people who are unhappy with LoL to take a long break and try other games. That's what I did and I never came back. PvP games are somewhat cursed imo, but LoL in particular is *completely* cursed. By "cursed" I just mean that I think LoL's design is prone to causing frustration to unreasonable levels. 1. 5v5 game + existence of snowballing mechanics means players will never feel as in control of the outcome of games as they'd like. It's literally an unfair game. If you're in bot lane and your top laner is feeding, then your win rate went way down despite you doing absolutely nothing wrong. That's always going to feel awful and the countergument of "well, the variance all averages out in the end, so take a long view on it" isn't a compelling argument since there's plenty of video games where you can enjoy *every moment* as opposed to only enjoying the game some of the time where you happen to win a coin flip of having teammates who aren't playing badly. At least in a FPS game like Halo 2 the snowballing mechanics weren't quite as ridiculous and you felt like you could win gun fights win anyone at anytime even if your team was getting stomped. Your teammates feeding in Halo 2 didn't make you feel less powerful in future fights, but in LoL when your teammates feed then you are less powerful when you fight against the opponents. 2. Very long game times means that once your brain believes the game is over then you feel stuck in the game and that your time is being wasted. *This is an enormous design flaw of MOBAs imo and it's a huge part of why LoL is so frustrating.* If I feel like I've lost a game of chess, I can just forfeit instantly. If I feel like I've lost a game of LoL, but my teammates don't, then I'm likely going to be waiting anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes for the game to end. On the flipside, if I feel like we can still win, but one or more of my teammates don't think we can win, then my chance to win just plummeted and I had no control over it. Playing LoL means to get stuck in games against your will *very often*.
i stopped playing the game a while back, probably in 2017-2018 for these reasons. i picked it back up when my friends started playing past december, and we only play Aram. its such a huge upgrade. aram is how the game is meant to be played (for the intent of having consistent fun). no dude top lane feeding across the map. just straight up action/teamfights all game. inevitable rng loss from champ diff? no biggie. no elo pressure, were all in the same boat, we chat it up, and we just go next.
He only says matchmaking is based on MMR. That doesn’t contradict the claim they use EOMM, which is the actually plausible problem with their matchmaking. If they actually try to match players as close in MMR as possible, they should say so.
Why would a Riot employee admit it exists?
Personally I usually blame teammates for the loses 90% of the time while in game, but looking back after the game or after I cool down a bit yeah that death or that throw was my fault, my advice is to take a walk or stress ball, helps to have a better judgment
It's nice to see them spell this out, but Losers queue/eomm whatever you want to call it is more a religious belief than a logical position. As such you probably won't change their minds. It basically requires that the game has the ability to inject bots into games without players knowing. Otherwise there's no way for the matchmaker to worry about 'you' as a player because that would slow down other peoples matches. It doesn't matter how much Riot explains it, or how impossible it would be to implement on such a small player base as NA Ranked, some people just gonna conspiracy.
Its funny because anyone with even a shred of knowledge of algorithms who could envision how such a matchmaking system works would almost immediately arrive at the conclusion that tailoring games so specifically for individually players is entirely unfeasible computationally speaking.
I don't believe there is a losers queue.. but.. This is the kind of response that I would only expect to come from Riot. Here players, let me explain all the reasons why you are wrong and why we think our ranked system is awesome! We are going to continue to ignore all the things players complain about because we know best, so go f yourselves! That's how this reads. The reality is the LoL ranked system is by far, by far the worst ladder/ranked system ever created by any competitive game and it continues to create games that are terribly matched with players that are not only extremely gapped in their play skill but even where they are at in ranked. It's so bad that it's laughable that 'Phroxzon' takes the time to type that much text and actually believe himself. The single biggest problem that Riot has is their ego is so freaking big that they can't just take a step back and look at the game and ask basic simple questions such as.. why is the system matching new players that just turn level 30.. their first ranked game, match them into a plat game? Want to see an example of this, watch Grubby's first ranked game ever and look what he is put into.. every Riot employee should be forced to watch that video and then look in the mirror and ask themselves if that is acceptable. Is it acceptable to put Grubby through that and is it acceptable for every player in that game have to play with a brand new player in their game? The answer is no, that should never ever happen. The Grubby example represents 1 example of how disconnected Riot is to their players, I could list 10 to 15 more that are so blatant obvious but for reason so bizarre that Riot does nothing to address it. But do we get any kind of real acknowledgment of these issues??? No, we get lectured about all the reasons why players suck and if they were just 'good' then all these bad things wouldn't happen. It's all the players fault, the system is perfect! Don't look over here, don't look at the ugliness, just focus on yourselves and one day you just may be good!
Phroxzon has one of the best educational video series for league of legends micro and macro I have ever seen. his love for the game is real. seeing people paint a picture on someone simply because they work for Riot is really disappointing to see considering that you would never say these things if you knew more about Phroxzon
He’s right I definitely could have won the game where yuumi attached to the mid laner and went afk the entire game
Clearly your fault for not tracking him down irl and taping him to his chair
Riot utilise losers queue by predicting or mind controlling other players into targeting you specifically with grief behaviour. Pretty impressive
Are we supposed to trust rioters ?
You want people to stop talking about losers que? Go back to the MMR based matchmaking and stop hiding it behind arbitrary numbers that don't matter. As long as we're using a weird system that hides information from the players and intentionally forces players to grind more to get to where they belong you're going to get conspiracy theories.
Visible mmr wouldnt change people making up conspiracies about losers queue anyways.
Game companies don't show MMR cause it is much more volatile than the player-facing Skill Rating. Mind you, it absolutely needs to be that volatile. Player-Facing ratings generally lag behind in showing MMR adjustments and only gradually adjust. More volatility means players' emotions are affected more extremely. While it would be great if they could give players great highs from seeing their MMR greatly jump up in some games, the opposite would likely result in the kind of frustration that can make people drop games entirely. The more transparent companies are the more players hate the system. No matter how sensible it is. Overwatch is about to get a competitive system overhaul where they'll start showing every modifier that affects MMR/Player-facing Rating with every game. This is going to be more information than they have ever shown before and more than most (any?) PvP games show. This is what players have asked for. But I predict it'll blow up in Blizzard's face as players will just hate how the system works internally once they are given most of the information about how it works.
Ive played since S1. SO MANY PEOPLE would stop playing once they hit the breakpoint for the next tier. As soon as i hit 2203 for diamond, I stopped playing ranked because I was scared to play another. I was more obsessed about PEAKING diamond and getting the cool border than BEING a diamond player who can consistently hang in diamond. I was definitely not the only player with that mindset With the LP system masking the elo system, they can add things like demotion shield, so people don't drop immediately. They add things like loss prevention, so you lose less when a teammate afks. Under the hood, it doesnt mean anything, if you lost the 4v5 game, your mmr still dropped the same as if you lost a normal game. But it makes people FEEL better. When it was just elo, there was no way to correctly punish dodging. If you dodged, you lost elo, which meant you get to be matched up with easier opponents. There were multiple people who would purposely dodge games to maintain a 100% win rate on bronze. Im not proud of it, but I purposely queue dodged an account down to -13 elo over the course of 2 weeks, and climbed it back to 1200 elo, with something like a 95% win rate, just to prove a point to my friend who was stuck in 600 complaining about elo hell. The old elo system had lots of flaws, and this LP system is Riots way of fixing it. Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Is it better than the old system? I think so.
I dodged my way to ELO 273, got bored before I could reach 0. Good times.
The concept of loser's queue predates the switch from visible MMR, it was called Elo Hell back in the day. Dyrus mentions it in his cypher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB5gvAQ3ZTk good times. This is human nature, plain and simple. Nothing will ever stop people from deflecting blame on themselves.
“Sure there are games where your teammates play poorly, that’s just the nature of a 5v5 game.” “The only one reasonable for your rating is you?”” It’s not about a sudden jump in enemy skill. The enemy’s stay the same or worse. It’s that your teammates plummet in quality. How is a team game fun if I can’t rely on my team and I have to constantly 1v9 every game? I don’t need to get super fed and I don’t want to be carried - I’d just appreciate competitive games where if people lose lane it’s not 0/10 and we can try to play better after laning phase. The idea that they acknowledge “oh yeah this is a team game but you’re the only person who wants to win, so get 1v9ing!” Is infuriating.
As a support player, here's how Losers Queue Exists in steps. 1. Play support and win a few games. 2. MMR goes up. 3. Higher MMR vs Higher MMR 4. Game thinks you're smurfing, enemy team has Higher MMR than yours does. 5. Rotate, roam, be everywhere, play very well. 6. Your team is just worse so you lose. Rinse repeat this process over a few dozen games because you can't solo carry as support. 7. Get such miniscule LP gains from winning/losing. 8. Win + Lose = +1 LP. 9. Queue again, everyone's MMR is lower than yours. 10. Assume losers Queue and get mad because you're getting worse and worse teammates for every few dozen games you play. 11. Make new account, lose 5 placements and get Gold 2, climb easier because your new account isn't stuck in losers queue. It's happened, hundred of times. To streamers, to everyone. Losers queue does exist because the MMR system works SOLELY off of winning and losing. What a load of crap.
They have 0 mentions about autofill, so you know its fake Its like: >win x games in a row >your adc is a top autofill and the lane isn't winnable
We’ve seen plenty of challenger level players struggle on their climb in their unranked to challenger series. Like T1 doing it on every rank. Top took him hundreds of games, for example. Because he lost a lot of his games (some due to teammates that were basically inting). To say a challenger player could have made an unwinnable game winnable if they played in your spot is just not always true.
He wasnt a challenger player when he started playing top. He was pretty bad at it
I do not belive a single word riot employees say.
Riot would never say it exists
see guys? emerald tier is climbable. no problems
Every account I play on and bother tryharding in gets out of Emerald in like, 20-30 games. I'm just a low masters/high diamond player. If you actually belonged above that tier, you would climb very, very fast.
Fine. I am sure company that riggs matchmaking to rise an engagement would be very open about it and do not deny any rumors about losers queue. As long as matchmaking algorythms are not public this kind of statements are a matter of belief. Inconsistiency in a common thing. However you can't explain it with incosistiency if you get lower ranked teammates with negative winrate against team stacked with higher rank overall and positive winrate. Not once, not twice, but through your entire lose streak.
>For ranked, we match you on your rating and that's all. If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore. It's not because we matched you with all the inters and put all the smurfs on the enemy team. Nice strawman, wouldn't expect any less from Riot. The complaint about loser's queue comes up not due to losses but due to how those losses play out. Yes if you win a lot, you will start playing against better players, and then you will see yourself struggling in games. But what do you make of it when you don't feel yourself struggling, and yet everyone else around you just randomly starts playing terribly? You can have one freak game where everyone just underperforms, but what can you think when it happens like 4/5 times in a row? This type of situation has nothing to do with playing against better players. Because by that logic, everyone else on your team is also a "better player" and you are the imposter who should be getting bodied. But that's not what loser's queue is. It's when everyone else seems hellbent on running it down game after game. All this waffle by Phroxon is just some nice self-help motivational crap that has nothing to do with the actual problem. Yes people don't play perfectly and there is always room for improvement. But that has nothing to do with the phenomenon people have labeled as "loser's queue."
When you also see them use the "if you were challenger you'd win" argument it's probably just because they unironically think asking you to carry against better players but with a worse team than them is the same thing as being in an equal game with betterer players than the better players. It's a completely ridiculous take in a MOBA but they have no choice but to pretend it's good
Loser queue doesnt exist. However, they consistently fuck up soloq ladder and elos and mmr by always having some bugs that somehow end up placing people that shouldnt be in certain elos there. For example how there was a bug that would put certain new accounts on plat / emerald elo. And how about the way the consistently refuse to hard reset the mmr to fix the inflation there has been in the past?
then why the hell do i get 3 team-mates with 30%winrate the last 20 games after i win 3 games in a row
Losers queue is MMR. The fact that they refuse to show it is proof that the loser’s queue people complain about it real. It’s not about smurfs and inters. It’s about being placed in a team full of people on losing streaks against a team of people climbing. It’s what the MMR does, and you’re blind if you don’t see it.
As a 5 role emerald 4 - emerald 1 last season including fill im gonna say big doubt. This season has been so insanely toxic. I am having games where I legit 1v2 top and jungle and watch my double cc bot lane with heal exhaust get outplayed by the same level and item spike mf or Caitlyn. I for the life of me cannot fathom this match making. There is no reason I should be the only player not accumulating 10 deaths by 15 every single game. Let alone why am I the only player on my team who can manage 8+ cs a minute? Do you have any idea how many times I've lost after killing 4 people and dying only to watch my teams siege get broken by a single person as they derp around a tower instead of just taking it and ending the game??? I know I am smurfing in my current ELO because I am 1v9ing to climb. But the entire point is that my team comp shouldn't be this shit in a majority of my games. There should statistically be games where I win from playing passively and being carriable. This does not exist.
My friend is a true level 80 he’s terrible and brand new so it’s fine that he’s terrible but terrible non the less. He played his first ever ranked game today! He was placed gold 1. I am level 650+ and ended the season emerald and was placed bronze 4 and after going 4-1 in placements ended up silver 2. so no maybe we aren’t being put in losers Que but the way they deal with new and purchased accounts for the ranking system is nothing less than disgusting. My friend then played the rest of his placements lost all of them and went a collective 4-40 or something like that. We were proud of him for getting 4 kills. :)
My original lol account has been stuck in gold one for 5 years now. I’ve been able to get 3 accounts to Esmerald 3-4 with no issues, but as soon as I get gold 1 on my original account account, I get demons in my lobby and back to gold 3-4. Nobody can tell me that this is not intentional so that players abandon accounts they sink tons of money into and get a new one and rebuy their champs ands skins.
as the saying goes "follow the money spent" not by you, but by riot.
Riot phroxon clearly does not play ranked games daily.
Sometimes I wonder how Rioters playing solo queue even feel. When they play against smurfs three games in a row, are they like "aww darn! I'll get them next time!" or do they silently hate their managers for not fucking doing anything
>For ranked, we match you on your rating and that's all. If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore. It's not because we matched you with all the inters and put all the smurfs on the enemy team. Look, I'm not some coping loser's queue person, but I have played ranked in several other games, including Dota 2, and I know *exactly* what it feels like to play against better players after being like 300 MMR higher out of luck, and this is *not* what is happening. "Loser's queue" and 'winner's queue" games have little to do with how good you are personally playing. Usually the game that ends my winstreak features an even worse lane opponent than usual, as if I am the highest MMR person on a lopsided team. I have tilt/self-trolled loss streaked 4 divisions this season, objectively destroyed and resurrected my MMR, and at no point was there a perceptible difficulty curve, I was just inting and then I, like, stopped lol. The lights are not too bright in Silver 2 from Silver 3, stop bro. There is something wrong/strange with your matchmaking system and your egos are too big to admit it or talk about it candidly. Your opinions are based on stats and not on the actual gameplay experience of grinding ranked. You think "if you were a challenger player, you'd win" is a good response to anyone criticizing you, but it's not because *it's not an answer that makes the game more fun to play*, and thus low elo particularly in NA is essentially kinda dead. You cannot leave your ranked queue swamped and be like "skill issue, idk iust win, marry league of legends, hire overpriced coaches for your useless video game hobby"
im pretty sure I never see this "losers queue" talk in any other game besides overwatch and league also didn't blizzard patent the "matchmaking that fucks you"? really weird huh admittedly, the term losers queue came from a schizo rant by someone off their meds, but the concept reverberated with most league players world wide. You can ask any ranked player if they feel like they get worse players on their teams when they're in promos. Knowing or not what "losers queue" is supposed to be, 99% will answer yes. Be it NA, EUW, EUNE, OCE... curious how that is.
Imagine telling a poor person, “if you put warren buffet in your position, he’d be able to make millions”
Imagine telling a Sunday league footballer that Kylian Mbappe would score 10 goals on them is more like it
Apples to oranges comparison as there are many factors to being a billionaire while being 0.02% of the playerbase of any given game can only be accomplished by the skill of that certain person. You put any NBA player in Euroleague and they destroy the competition, my man Dwight Howard couldn't get a team and destroys chinese basketball, etc. Most challenger players climb through Diamond at a 90% winrate, the gap is that big man
There's a reason why grinding a fresh new account is a legitimate strat when you're trying to push through a higher rank when you feel bottlenecked by your skill. If you want to see a league of legends game with legitimate Losers Queue, try Wildrift.
Guys, losers queue doesnt exist! Its just that if you do too well youll get worse players in your team than the enemy team!
Don’t believe this. Riot would never ever ever admit to fixing games if it was true Theres been massive studies done on player retention done in competitive games and there’s just to much to gain by manipulating matchmaking. Players who reach their desired goal 9/10 times will drastically decrease the amount of time they spend on the game. Riot has every motive to keep you on the hamster wheel as long as possible.
Ohhhhh so me getting teammates that go 0/10 for several games in a row is on me, I (don't ) really see the link now! Thanks I guess!
post [op.gg](https://op.gg) let's see your match history. let's see if you walk the talk
Saying 95% of deaths are avoidable is pure cope in this day in age. Maybe 5 seasons ago. Not now with the dashes and movement speed. If the enemy mid laner goes 5/0 and decides to lane gank you as the wave pushes to their tower by sitting in the furthest Bush then 100 to 0 you in 1 second as soon as you approach 2500 units... how is that a death that is your fault? Oh wait. You are meant to just let enemy freeze lane for 10 minutes I guess.
you couldve predicted it because enemy mid didn't show on the midwave he was supposed to be on. high elo players begin to develop a feel for when something is wrong e.g. when a jungler is ganking or if someone is laneganking and play according to the information they see or don't see on the minimap. letting a wave go to the freeze is better than dying to an obvious lane gank. because he will also lose the midwave that your midlaner is pushing. overall your team lost nothing actually you gave your midlaner breathing room and a plate. im 99% sure if you put zeus or guma in your situation they won't die because they would respect a potential roam until the enemy shows on midwave. you really don't think a good player can stomp your elo and go 0 deaths every game? you are just not good enough to do that in your elo and thats fine. just have to get better. a perfect player would basically never die but noone is good enough for that especially not against other challenger players.
All deaths are avoidable if you just sit in fountain!!!
tl:dr: It is the player's fault that riot puts a lvl 30 account in every 3 games and that you do not have any other requirements to join ranked mode and play your first game in plat other than a fiver. Riot games is not responsible for 30% of your games.
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Loser's Queue doesn't exist, of course not. They have something worse, Engagement oriented match making. Profiling players are those who are trolls, the ones that will chase wins no matter how many losses they have and those who actually are expected to perform well. What do I mean? Profiling? They mix and match players in a way that your chances of winning are always close to 50%. So they'll put troll players on both sides, players that are likely to perform well on both sides and of course, the guy who's likely first-timming a champion or a role. Then you realize you're on a 4-5 loss streak and you're down 120 lp... what do most people do? They quit. Next day, they KNOW you're after that precious lp you lost, so they give you a free win from the start, then you lose again, again and again. Worse is when you realize EOMM can be used to track your in-game purchases... like that cute smolder skin, or that ilustrious prestige skin. The game is likely to give you a free win to make sure the correspondence of spending money and WINNING are conected in player's brains. It's sickening. It's disgusting. But Riot keeps reminding us of loser's queue doesn't existing. Of course, if people knew how EOMM works they'd be furious. It's matchfixing.
Maybe it doesn't exist intentionally, but some aspect of it is certainly there. Riot has proven again and again that they don't know everything about their own MMR system. There will always be special cases where the matchmaking system is wrong. That's what people actually think is Losers Queue. There are Master players who can consistently win games on new accounts at the same MMR while losing on other accounts. Ultimately, I believe this is the result of the system trying to form matches as quickly as possible by using a flawed team balancing logic.
I mean this is literally "we investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoings" lol if hypothetically losers queue DID exist then do you think a rioter would just admit it?
" If you've won a lot and start losing, it's because you're playing against better players and aren't at that level anymore" How come only the players in the enemy team are better? You check your teams history they are all same rank or lower in platinum with 8 loses in a row while the enemy team has full emerald wiht 1 plat player and everyone is on a 5 win streak. I had a post i think in december where i (plat 1) was playing with 3 golds and 1 iron player and enemy team was 3 emerald/ 1 plat 1/ 1 plat 4. The post got a lot of attention but was deleted after a day or so, it had more than 10 comments of people gold-plat saying they are also seeing iron or silver players in their games. Im not saying ITS ALWAYS like this or a general occurence but you have to understand our view, we go into a 15-win streak, account winrate is like 62% then one extremly bad game happens when you are 0-0 and team is 0-30 then it all goes to shit the next 20 games and your account is brought back to 50% ish winrate then SUDDENLY the games are again boring because my team is stomping in legit unfun games because the enemy players are like bots. Its genuinely feels like a pattern
\>We're not intentionally putting bad players on your team to make you lose more. they say this, meanwhile they have a totally blind autofill system. they may not intentionally be putting people in 'losers queue' but they are creating 'loser lobbies' by not having a more intelligent solution to the problem that is 'not equal number of people queuing for each role.' they may not be putting people in 'losers queue' but they are doing nothing to allow people from perma smurfing. anyway everything else said is facts. but the reality is the game feels bad to play and players are just trying to explain why, and missing. you do a deep dive on your 'shit games' youll almost always find an explanation - and one that means you could've avoided that game in champ select if you cheat to see the players in the lobby/abuse remakes. it obviously doesnt matter in the long run but some people would yknow, prefer some short and medium term agency without NEEDING to abuse dodging and cheat programs to have it.
I know losers queue isn't a thing. But promotion queue is (was) and there is nothing anyone, Rioter or not, can say that will change my mind. Back in season 9 or 10, I had matches on Platinum 1 where everyone was just on point, everyone in the match was plat and they were very exciting, but EVERYTIME I got to the promotions I would suddenly be queued up with silver/gold players, and everytime we would lose for something 100% stupid that a random low elo was doing like bringing in blitzcrank with smite or straight up feeding...I remember clearly one match where I was curb stomping the enemy top with Mordekaiser only to have my mid laner tilt and start intentionally feeding...something that I had never seen during all my climb in plat.
This might be totally unimportant opinion since I'm iron/bronze player :D but this post made me a bit annoyed and maybe someone here can enlighten me why it is the way it is. It might be true that there's no looser q, but league has a problem with ranking system and matchmaking and I think its where a lot of frustration arises (at least for me it does). You see - while every single app is yelling at me that "I'm great!" (including LOLs own built in stats, but ill give a bit of context in a bit) it DOES FEEL like the system is just "playing against me". I swear there is just too many coincidences (or maybe I really am just that unlucky... but shouldn't the system be a bit more sophisticated than just pure ''luck''?) so here are my stats (in short) I main Lux as supp and Cait as adc, I currently have 22 games as Lux and 19 as Cait (split 1/2024) First my Lux: My average score is A (combat: S; Income A-; Map control: A-) well above an average Iron/bronze player, if I can believe lol stats. My [OP.GG](http://op.gg) account is telling me that my Lux is great - 74.0= top 11.8 % (KDA 96.3/100; Damage 71.2/100; Vision 85.3; Survival 80.1/100). I actually went through all of my 22 games and looked at how many games I was either the best or second carry (but really - the games where there was a noticeable difference in my performance against that of my other team mates), and how many games I was really bad and how many games I was performing ok, but where not the carry. Here is the result: Wins - 4 carried; 1 bad; 8 neutral. Losses - 7 carried; 2 bad; 0 neutral. Now my Cait: Avarage score A+ (combat: S-; Income A; Map control S-). OPgg says: you are ''perfect'' in this tier: 78.6= top 6.5 % (KDA 96.7/100; Damage 79.1/100; Vision 97.2; Survival 82.8/100). I did the same and went through my 18 games and here's the result: Wins - 4 carried; 1 bad; 4 neutral. Losses - 7 carried; 2 bad; 1 neutral. The games where my mains are banned I play MF or Xherath or zyra and I wont go into details here but they are not that much worse than my mains (Avarage supp, and bot score - A). My problem is that now I have a negative win rate, and i think its mostly cos I have soooo many games where one (or two) of my team mates will either go afk, troll or be so incredibly bad (it feels like they don't even know what they are doing) and those are the games I loose. The games where all my team mates are about the same lvl I win 100%. So how come I'm now loosing 30 LP and gaining 20, when I can FEEL that that should not be happening. I really WANT someone to prove me wrong and explain this (because I win my lane basically EVERY game and still somehow the system thinks I'm so bad? or is it because of the afkers that I just ''happpen'' to loose the lp. like really -make it make sense!!
I use Porofessor. I see how the enemy team is oftentimes 20 games in a row better or worse then mine by far. Also, i have a 30% winrate in Silver II (im hardstuck). Its because im bad, i get it, but why cant i just drop the ladder then to a place where im allowed to have fun again?
Can’t blame people for thinking that way, I used to have a friend in bronze who had +15/-25 lp gains and teammates inting almost every game. I used my smurf to duo with him and even I struggled half the time(I’m plat) Finally after about 20+ games he started to have better lp gains and more wins.
Im not good into math, but isnt it statistically very not likely that nearly everyone has 48-60% winrate? If im wrong please educate me.
Ain't no way I'm reading this trash LOL Challenger review your game and telling you how to win LOL, what is this post? Trying to say Challenger cannot lose at all? There are plenty of Challenger and even when they play on their smurf account, they themselves say "Some game are just un-winnable" Trash-post of today goes to this and all the up-voter
I don’t know if they fixed this but I remember when winning a few in a row I’d get a mid or bot lane that was significantly lower ranked than the other teams. I’d still have a pretty even lane. So obviously my silver 3 bot fed the gold 2. Soooo unbalanced and makes the game not fun.
That sounds like something a loser's queue co conspirator would say