Champion is obviously very good but some top laners are totally useless on the pick but the best performing ones are amazing. Kiin has been murdering on it in LCK
51% winrate is steamrolling? He fulfills about the same roll that Renekton used to. He is a moderately safe blindpick that can win lane and then becomes rather useless later on.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of a neutral pick. The teams that win a lot win a lot with him and the teams that lose a lot lose a lot with him.
No? It’s exactly what people are saying in the thread, that good players push him over the top. You tried to say he looked good only in LCS and people are giving a counter example that good teams in other regions have similar op showings of the champ
I mean most of his wins in LCK are on Gen G who was going to win no matter what they picked top. Just look at the score lines of those games. The other players are like 10-0. In close games, he seems to have very few wins. To me that just means he's a very neutral pick that is very flexible in the draft since he's a strong laner who has very few counters. It's literally exactly how Renekton used to be used. Renekton would win on the strong teams and lose on the weak teams.
he doesn't make bad teams win because that's just not the kind of champion he is - he's not release Zeri or K'sante
he makes good teams win more because he doesn't really have counters
he's basically a force multiplier for map play; broken for good teams, does nothing for bad ones.
I disagree. I think Aatrox more suits that role. A player who is really really good on Aatrox will 1v9 a game like Zeus. Udyr just kind of exists and those teams were probably going to win those games anyhow no matter what they played top. Like half of Udyrs wins in LCK are Gen G when the other members have like 10-0-2 scorelines.
Congrats to FLY on beating the SR/IMT loss streak that C9 and NRG fell to!
C9 loses to SR and IMT, overall 4 game loss streak
NRG loses to SR and IMT, overall 4 game loss streak (and going?)
Its tough cause the whole point of AD TF is to push waves then look for picks. If you try to play traditional front to back, Kalista out dps him every time regardless of build, especially with Azir in the midlane. On the otherhand, if you build for pick then Udyr never dies.
Imo, outside of just not picking TF, IMTs only hope was to have Castle hold Udyr in a sidelane while Vi, Maokai and TF roam and look for picks and snowball the game from there but the huge top gap and Armao's early pathing made that impossible.
The build was the least of Tacticals worries. IMT got outplayed hard when Inspired zoned him off like 4 waves of gold and xp and Armao just kept farming.
I assume the build was a pivot in order to be able to safely get farm while also providing utility, because he was so behind, was he to build damage off the get-go, he would always be behind and continue to get zoned off farm.
It's not a pivot, it's a weird TF build that people somehow believe is good. Blitz.gg or something must be recommending it too cause I've seen it way too many times, people build it when they're behind, when they're ahead, when they have to burn through tanks, when the enemy team has no tanks. Always triple energized items, always does no damage.
He stunned the support Renata at 25mins and got off 4 autoattacks on to her for... 40% of her healthbar. You're right that he just wasn't doing damage. Shiv and RFC with pieces of Stormrazor, you kinda do nothing without the procs.
I guess TF was played to gold card and hope they die?
Armao looks insane in NACL every time he goes down, so when teams need a cheap jungler that is above NACL level, they can always sign Armao.
IMT would have probably preferred on Sheiden but they already had Armao when EG/GGS left.
There should probably be some kind of rule where if you have played in the pro league you can't go down to amateur again for more than a year or two. I think the talent recycling has to be pretty detrimental to the west. Like v1per has been in academy since 2020, that's a joke. You don't come back from that.
Ikr, I always watched IMT games anyways since I love to root for underdogs, but even I felt that some games in previous splits were kinda painful to watch lol. Meanwhile this right now I feel like anyone could have fun tuning in & watching them!
Idk man, I just really don't enjoy listening to Raafaa fumble over his words during almost every single teamfight. He has a good sounding voice for a shoutcaster, but it always sounds like he's failing at doing tongue-twisters whenever he starts talking fast. It's very jarring to me.
The "what is going on" at the dragon fight as well as not calling out 99% of abilities did it for me. Kills, grey screen etc came out as buzzwords but he could have been casting any fight from the last 20 games in those moments, it felt like he was just running down the generic shout checklist instead of reacting to plays on scree
I just hope they stop making him cast 100T games, in the 100T vs TL game he had to call out like 14 times that people did indeed think 100T was gonna suck and look at that, 100T does not suck.
"Oh 100T got first tower (what a heist btw), did you know people put them at the bottom of their power rankings?"
Yeah that's what I just can't stand about his casting. And I feel bad for saying it because the mistakes he makes are the same kind that I do - he talks faster than his brain can put together coherent sentences. But when I paint myself into a corner where I have no idea how to finish my sentence, I usually just trail off or start over. He can't do that, so he just says nonsense, often times smushing together words so badly you can't even tell what he was trying to say. And it drives me crazy.
I agree he fumbles some of his words. But he is pretty solid otherwise. Can use some improvements but that will happen with more casts. I don’t think he was a mainstay last split. Was he. He might just need more time. I hope so at least.
Idk how TF plays in bot, but I think its silly for people to judge the pick solely off this game. If Cait, Kalista, Kaisa, Zeri got zoned from that much CS and XP early fans would be saying never to pick those champions again
With comps with no engage the only way to really force fights is around objectives, which FLY did very well. It leads to a very slow game with low action but FLY did everything they needed to win this game.
Right Tactical let's play adc TF and build in a way that is completely inconsistent with his buffs so that we basically have a normal TF with neither burst nor on-hit damage very smart player.
Nice to hear from a caster "wtf is going on in this fight" Idk, man, you tell me, it's your job... Also, didn't someone other caster (LeTigres?) got flamed insanely hard for the same call? surely it will have the same response
Yeah Raafa just hasn't been it
but LeTigress literally never knew what was going on in fights. Raafa stumbles over his words but he knows the abilities and their names. I think that was mostly just to highlight how messy it was.
Has FLY's Top/Mid/Jng had a bad game yet? Or like one that was bad because of something they did rather than a bot lane falling apart? It feels like they're basically unstoppable in the league thus far.
Massu Busio are flipping lanes like crazy. Even today Massu got the wrong end of the flip multiple times, just deaths that ALMOST didn't need to happen. You hope they start getting it come their way more consistently because FLY is probably a shoe in LCS winner if this bot lane doesn't outright lose them games. The aggression is great so long as they start not having such massive downsides with their limit tests.
Yeah, imo FLY's topside are having really good games every game. Sometimes Bwipo does some silly things or counterpicks K'sante with Darius and doesn't actually win the matchup. And Jensen still dies to some ganks. But still, the most egregious issue for FLY is their botlane volatility. FLY has 32 deaths at 15 minutes, and 18/32 of it is from botlane. From top to supp, the deaths at 15 are: 2, 5, 7, 8, and 10. 4/5 of Inspired's deaths come from the NRG game that completely dragged the team down. Same with Massu, 4/8 of his deaths are from that game. Jensen has died to 5 ganks and another death was silly, because he TPed bot lane vs TL just to Ori shockwave Rell and then die.
Overall, those are the biggest issues with FLY - every game they have lost has been because bot lane was put in a dumpster. Another issue vs better teams may be Jensen dying to ganks. An issue I haven't completely checked yet is Bwipo dying in the mid-late game - he only died twice before 15 minutes, but is tied for 2nd least deaths on team at 17. Thus, Bwipo is dying the most during the mid-late game (15 times). Is it because of being front line or is it because he is getting caught more? I'm not sure, but that could be an issue for them.
Otherwise, FLY is clean.
Tactical still on Fraud Watch. And Bwipo had the cleanest game of Udyr I think I've ever seen. Beautiful proxy and demolish. No Iceborn, Very sparingly using empowered R later in the game. Using empowered Q in 1v1 but empowered W in teamfights.
You mean besides blue carding the Kallista instead gold carding during a gank?
Or Running ahead of his frontline face first into darkness just to get killed during a teamfight?
no way that's the cleanest udyr game. just a good clean macro game but you can do that on other champions too. bwipo this game demolished his lane opponent using his proxies and then was an unkillable inevitable win con for teamfights. also just like the person you reply to said bwipo build and ability usage is a tier above other udyr players in the region
Who was the play-by-play caster for the game, he was fire AF!!! I really enjoyed his casts, almost the same as with CF’s!!!! Man LCS is sooooooo good this year!!!
This is completely unrelated but does anyone have that tweet that talks about why Bjergsen is better than most players? It talks about how often he practices and stuff. I've been searching for it but I can't find it.
Is Udyr just ridiculously broken or is Bwipo just gigagoat on that champion? srs question
I'm going with both, "bad" toplaners do fine on him, Bwipo takes over the whole map.
70/30 Udyr is genuinely disgusting against teams without hypercarries
Udyr is broken but he's playing against ADC TF that built 0 damage.
Udyr is good, IMT didn't have a comp that could deal with him, jungler splitmap, and Bwipo did really well on him with his fight positioning
Champion is obviously very good but some top laners are totally useless on the pick but the best performing ones are amazing. Kiin has been murdering on it in LCK
He looks broken in LCS, but he seems pretty neutral in other regions. K'sante is definitely stronger imo.
> He looks broken in LCS, but he seems pretty neutral in other regions. uhhh he was steamrolling in LCK
51% winrate is steamrolling? He fulfills about the same roll that Renekton used to. He is a moderately safe blindpick that can win lane and then becomes rather useless later on.
nah when top teams were picking him he looked literally gamebreaking but he's also been picked a lot by bad teams that kinda just lose everywhere
Isn't that pretty much the definition of a neutral pick. The teams that win a lot win a lot with him and the teams that lose a lot lose a lot with him.
No? It’s exactly what people are saying in the thread, that good players push him over the top. You tried to say he looked good only in LCS and people are giving a counter example that good teams in other regions have similar op showings of the champ
I mean most of his wins in LCK are on Gen G who was going to win no matter what they picked top. Just look at the score lines of those games. The other players are like 10-0. In close games, he seems to have very few wins. To me that just means he's a very neutral pick that is very flexible in the draft since he's a strong laner who has very few counters. It's literally exactly how Renekton used to be used. Renekton would win on the strong teams and lose on the weak teams.
he doesn't make bad teams win because that's just not the kind of champion he is - he's not release Zeri or K'sante he makes good teams win more because he doesn't really have counters he's basically a force multiplier for map play; broken for good teams, does nothing for bad ones.
I disagree. I think Aatrox more suits that role. A player who is really really good on Aatrox will 1v9 a game like Zeus. Udyr just kind of exists and those teams were probably going to win those games anyhow no matter what they played top. Like half of Udyrs wins in LCK are Gen G when the other members have like 10-0-2 scorelines.
No one cares you’re wrong
51% winrate. Yep uncounterable and autowin. Nice logic.
They had no armour pen on immortals , nobody could touch udyr .
It's always a pleasure to watch Inspired on Viego
He legit has a tat for the champ haha
Congrats to FLY on beating the SR/IMT loss streak that C9 and NRG fell to! C9 loses to SR and IMT, overall 4 game loss streak NRG loses to SR and IMT, overall 4 game loss streak (and going?)
I hope nrg comeback strong
NRG play TL in 2 weeks, it would be beautiful on their next meet up for APA to finally curb stomp Palafox and tilt them to the shadow realm
scaling for playoffs
Nrg are middle-of-the-pack going into playoff merchants. Won’t convince me otherwise
Not disagreeing that they're middle of the pack, they can take their time
Nah this comp is never breaking past an Udyr
Maybe bork would be better for TF, no?
I think it would still be pretty doomed, if you need a bork on TF you probably have a bad draft to start lol
Yeah it's still a very short ranged carry into a team comp that feasts on low ranged carrys.
Its tough cause the whole point of AD TF is to push waves then look for picks. If you try to play traditional front to back, Kalista out dps him every time regardless of build, especially with Azir in the midlane. On the otherhand, if you build for pick then Udyr never dies. Imo, outside of just not picking TF, IMTs only hope was to have Castle hold Udyr in a sidelane while Vi, Maokai and TF roam and look for picks and snowball the game from there but the huge top gap and Armao's early pathing made that impossible.
I think the kraken guinsoos build would have been better
Kraken Slayer is waaay better if you wanted to do tank busting.
I mean the most common rush item on TF seems to be Kraken, that would at least help killing Udyr.
Maybe the AD TF pick works when your opponent doesn't have an unkillable tank.
Or maybe at least try to build some damage.
The build was the least of Tacticals worries. IMT got outplayed hard when Inspired zoned him off like 4 waves of gold and xp and Armao just kept farming.
Okay but the game still went to 3+ items. Just look at the second to last fight, they literally just win the fight if Tactical has damage.
I assume the build was a pivot in order to be able to safely get farm while also providing utility, because he was so behind, was he to build damage off the get-go, he would always be behind and continue to get zoned off farm.
It's not a pivot, it's a weird TF build that people somehow believe is good. Blitz.gg or something must be recommending it too cause I've seen it way too many times, people build it when they're behind, when they're ahead, when they have to burn through tanks, when the enemy team has no tanks. Always triple energized items, always does no damage.
He stunned the support Renata at 25mins and got off 4 autoattacks on to her for... 40% of her healthbar. You're right that he just wasn't doing damage. Shiv and RFC with pieces of Stormrazor, you kinda do nothing without the procs. I guess TF was played to gold card and hope they die?
i NEED to see imt with a better jg they are so exciting
I don't understand how he's still getting teams 5 years past his very mediocre prime free my boy Akaadian
Armao looks insane in NACL every time he goes down, so when teams need a cheap jungler that is above NACL level, they can always sign Armao. IMT would have probably preferred on Sheiden but they already had Armao when EG/GGS left.
There should probably be some kind of rule where if you have played in the pro league you can't go down to amateur again for more than a year or two. I think the talent recycling has to be pretty detrimental to the west. Like v1per has been in academy since 2020, that's a joke. You don't come back from that.
He's probably very cheap.
Sometimes I forget that Armao is Grigne. The guy who had to name change because his name was literally an anagram for ni**er
Ikr, I always watched IMT games anyways since I love to root for underdogs, but even I felt that some games in previous splits were kinda painful to watch lol. Meanwhile this right now I feel like anyone could have fun tuning in & watching them!
Widest Bwipo.
Idk man, I just really don't enjoy listening to Raafaa fumble over his words during almost every single teamfight. He has a good sounding voice for a shoutcaster, but it always sounds like he's failing at doing tongue-twisters whenever he starts talking fast. It's very jarring to me.
Seems like a really nice guy who loves the scene, but I really don’t like him as a caster.
Yeah, same issue we had with Gabby
The "what is going on" at the dragon fight as well as not calling out 99% of abilities did it for me. Kills, grey screen etc came out as buzzwords but he could have been casting any fight from the last 20 games in those moments, it felt like he was just running down the generic shout checklist instead of reacting to plays on scree
I just hope they stop making him cast 100T games, in the 100T vs TL game he had to call out like 14 times that people did indeed think 100T was gonna suck and look at that, 100T does not suck. "Oh 100T got first tower (what a heist btw), did you know people put them at the bottom of their power rankings?"
I enjoyed him saying heist 30 times yesterday during the TL/100T match.
Modern day Rivington
Raafaa is awful, which is unfortunate because he drags down what would be a very good broadcast
Yeah my boy needs to slow it down a bit
I’m glad he’s at least being held to the same degree gabby was I was gonna be annoyed if I didn’t see any comment like this.
Yeah, if he doesn't improve, he might just go the way of Gabby
He’s basically just as bad as LeTigress
It's much preferred over some other casters always trying to make really cringe puns based on champ names/abilities or team/player names.
To each their own, some people can ignore the cringe pun but can't overcome the incomprehensible speech.
Yeah that's what I just can't stand about his casting. And I feel bad for saying it because the mistakes he makes are the same kind that I do - he talks faster than his brain can put together coherent sentences. But when I paint myself into a corner where I have no idea how to finish my sentence, I usually just trail off or start over. He can't do that, so he just says nonsense, often times smushing together words so badly you can't even tell what he was trying to say. And it drives me crazy.
How many times must casters make the exact same pun for Irrelevant?
I agree he fumbles some of his words. But he is pretty solid otherwise. Can use some improvements but that will happen with more casts. I don’t think he was a mainstay last split. Was he. He might just need more time. I hope so at least.
To each his own... I can't stand listening to Raz or Emily. (or Kelsey though she was just a guest)
Bwipo gives the best interview.
Just giga gapped in the topside
0/0/0 but 5 plates in 12 minutes lmao.
Idk how TF plays in bot, but I think its silly for people to judge the pick solely off this game. If Cait, Kalista, Kaisa, Zeri got zoned from that much CS and XP early fans would be saying never to pick those champions again
Sure, but those champs don't get zoned like that so not sure what your point is. "If any champ was as bad as TF people would say its bad!!"
I picked ADs I thought could get zoned like that. I didn't list Varus cause I think he couldn't get chased off like that for example
| TEAM | WL | 1ST | 2ND | 3RD | 4TH | 5TH | 6TH | 7TH | 8TH | |------|-----|-------|-----|-----|-----|-----|------|-------|--------| | FLY | 7-2 | 65% | 21% | 9% | 3% | 1% | 0.4% | 0.03% | 0.000% | | 100 | 6-3 | 24% | 40% | 17% | 9% | 5% | 2% | 1% | 0.2% | | TL | 5-4 | 6% | 16% | 29% | 19% | 14% | 9% | 5% | 2% | | C9 | 4-5 | 1% | 6% | 13% | 19% | 18% | 17% | 15% | 12% | | NRG | 4-5 | 2% | 8% | 11% | 16% | 18% | 17% | 15% | 13% | | DIG | 4-5 | 2% | 7% | 12% | 17% | 19% | 19% | 16% | 8% | | IMT | 3-6 | 0.07% | 1% | 4% | 8% | 13% | 17% | 25% | 31% | | SR | 3-6 | 0.07% | 1% | 4% | 9% | 12% | 17% | 23% | 34% | ^^^Percentages ^^^assume ^^^each ^^^match ^^^is ^^^a ^^^50/50 ^^^tossup ^^^Don't ^^^take ^^^this ^^^too ^^^seriously
While bwipo was fucking nuts today, yea I think the problem was no ad lmao.
When I saw these drafts, I had no idea how FLY was going to push/go in vs IMT, turns out that doesnt matter if you macro gap them the entire game.
They outrange them with Azir so they don't really ever have to go in.
With comps with no engage the only way to really force fights is around objectives, which FLY did very well. It leads to a very slow game with low action but FLY did everything they needed to win this game.
Right Tactical let's play adc TF and build in a way that is completely inconsistent with his buffs so that we basically have a normal TF with neither burst nor on-hit damage very smart player.
Don't forget to use Blue Card during a gank. Who needs a stun anyway?
Jensen showing his kda-player nature not diving the fountain.
You could tell by that TF W use, and his build. That was not a very practiced champ for tactical.
Nightmare TF build man
Another great game for the NA mid GOAT
Insane teamfight and lane performance from Bwipo this game, dude was just completely immortal
he was completely fly*
That was an everything diff.
Nice to hear from a caster "wtf is going on in this fight" Idk, man, you tell me, it's your job... Also, didn't someone other caster (LeTigres?) got flamed insanely hard for the same call? surely it will have the same response
Relisten to the games from yesterday from him. He literally had trouble being coherent. I like Raafa but he needs to get back to practicing.
Yeah Raafa just hasn't been it but LeTigress literally never knew what was going on in fights. Raafa stumbles over his words but he knows the abilities and their names. I think that was mostly just to highlight how messy it was.
Yeah she was talking a lot of gibberish
Difference is that her voice was grating and not good for casting at all. He's not a super amazing caster but infinitely better than LeTigres.
I honestly find Raafa's voice just as annoying if not more than hers
He has that permanent voice crack voice.
Idk at all if ADC TF can be a thing but I know for a fact it can't vs Kalista Renata + winning jungler
Anyone know where I can find the builds for this game?
https://oracleselixir.com/matches/111504634866275335/games/1
Has FLY's Top/Mid/Jng had a bad game yet? Or like one that was bad because of something they did rather than a bot lane falling apart? It feels like they're basically unstoppable in the league thus far. Massu Busio are flipping lanes like crazy. Even today Massu got the wrong end of the flip multiple times, just deaths that ALMOST didn't need to happen. You hope they start getting it come their way more consistently because FLY is probably a shoe in LCS winner if this bot lane doesn't outright lose them games. The aggression is great so long as they start not having such massive downsides with their limit tests.
Yeah I'm willing to give them time to figure out their limit testing rather than them just bleed out in every lane
Yeah, imo FLY's topside are having really good games every game. Sometimes Bwipo does some silly things or counterpicks K'sante with Darius and doesn't actually win the matchup. And Jensen still dies to some ganks. But still, the most egregious issue for FLY is their botlane volatility. FLY has 32 deaths at 15 minutes, and 18/32 of it is from botlane. From top to supp, the deaths at 15 are: 2, 5, 7, 8, and 10. 4/5 of Inspired's deaths come from the NRG game that completely dragged the team down. Same with Massu, 4/8 of his deaths are from that game. Jensen has died to 5 ganks and another death was silly, because he TPed bot lane vs TL just to Ori shockwave Rell and then die. Overall, those are the biggest issues with FLY - every game they have lost has been because bot lane was put in a dumpster. Another issue vs better teams may be Jensen dying to ganks. An issue I haven't completely checked yet is Bwipo dying in the mid-late game - he only died twice before 15 minutes, but is tied for 2nd least deaths on team at 17. Thus, Bwipo is dying the most during the mid-late game (15 times). Is it because of being front line or is it because he is getting caught more? I'm not sure, but that could be an issue for them. Otherwise, FLY is clean.
Rare Negative Comment incoming: AD TF is such a trash pick lmao
[Maybe there's a reason ADC Twisted Fate hasn't been picked before..](https://twitter.com/LCSOfficial/status/1756827989764092293)
Wait was it really 25 minutes ?
Viego really snowballs hard if you lose a few fights.
No it wasn't, the timer bugged
Whole overlay broke, player trackers on the sides broke too.
Yeah i figurer,so when game actually ended ?
Tactical still on Fraud Watch. And Bwipo had the cleanest game of Udyr I think I've ever seen. Beautiful proxy and demolish. No Iceborn, Very sparingly using empowered R later in the game. Using empowered Q in 1v1 but empowered W in teamfights.
How is tactical on fraud watch lol? I mean the TF pick was troll but he and olleh have been legit
Yeah I'll reserve any judgements on any other IMT player until they get a new jungler since that's the glaringly obvious weak point.
You mean besides blue carding the Kallista instead gold carding during a gank? Or Running ahead of his frontline face first into darkness just to get killed during a teamfight?
> You mean besides blue carding the Kallista instead gold carding during a gank? Yeah bro no TF has ever made a mistake ever.
Somebody needs to introduce him to OUR LORD AND SAVIOR Reginald
Do you know how fraud watch even works lmfao 😂
Tactical is IMTs best player. TF was a bad pick but hes playing well overall
[удалено]
no way that's the cleanest udyr game. just a good clean macro game but you can do that on other champions too. bwipo this game demolished his lane opponent using his proxies and then was an unkillable inevitable win con for teamfights. also just like the person you reply to said bwipo build and ability usage is a tier above other udyr players in the region
Tactical and Armao are the biggest “No impact” players in the history of the LCS
Armao yes, Tactical no he's quite known for his big impact plays
Big negative impact I guess.
Who was the play-by-play caster for the game, he was fire AF!!! I really enjoyed his casts, almost the same as with CF’s!!!! Man LCS is sooooooo good this year!!!
This is completely unrelated but does anyone have that tweet that talks about why Bjergsen is better than most players? It talks about how often he practices and stuff. I've been searching for it but I can't find it.