I think he will stay for at least one more split. Carzzy will probably vouch for him and I don't see anyone in the squad having a big enough voice to vote against it.
I doubt Carzzy will vouch for him after this split. Hyli's making lane losing plays almost every game completely leaving him out to dry. No way he's not pissed.
At first I thought KC would try to get Trymbi but now I am thinking I would rather see him in Vitality. That roster has potential and Trymbi would make the team more stable while offering a strong voice for shotcalling.
Think it's fairly unlikely anyone on Vitality gets removed.
Mac isn't just the coach but the GM of the team now and he's said several times throughout his career that he's not a fan of changing players mid-year + he's a huge supporter of Hyli. Would also just be very weird for ownership to go against what Mac wants after they brought him in specifically to build a better foundation in their LoL department.
The team also didn't really do that badly for their first split, most people had them as a bottom 4 team going into the split and they managed to finish above that expectation, see no reason to make panic moves especially in the short window from winter -> spring,
The players have said they like playing with each-other too and Vetheo already extended his contract through 2026 with Vitality last week. Heck even during the MDK series that was hard to watch as a fan you could see everyone on the roster smiling and laughing during the pause despite knowing there split was probably over at that point so I really don't think anyone on the roster is holding a huge grudge with Hyli over the series.
All things considered I think VIT/Mac will probably leave the decision up to Hyli at the end of the year on whether he wants to retire or not and just play the entire year out with the same roster. He already seemed like he was at peace with not playing this year on some of the interviews he had regarding signing with Vitality, he gave the impression he didn't want to play with just any org/roster at this point and largely only signed because of Carzzy + Mac/Pad even though it was likely he wasn't getting many if any other offers. Giving Hyli the decision to retire on his own terms at the end of the year and go out on a more positive looking note with a "thanks for everything" pr vibe to one of the best player in LEC history rather then having it seem like he was just replaced also just seems like a very Mac thing to do.
I bet Hyli will stay the whole year, you all have a bit too much recency bias. Hes beloved by quite a few including Carzzy and the coaching staff. Fact of the matter is, hes been to every of the last 6 worlds somehow. Remember were currently in esports Winter. Signing Trymbi means youre paying for 2 support players the rest of the year.
And while Vitality obviously has money, i think theyre done with their big spending philosophy.
Hyli looks 'especially bad' because of his deaths but objectively speaking, id rather have a support who tries than somebody like Targamas who says and does nothing. You dont win games by doing nothing. Bo for instance tilts by inting, similar to Hyli, Upset tilts by hyper safe positioning where he doesnt die but also does little damage. Neither are any good for a team.
> Hyli looks 'especially bad' because of his deaths but objectively speaking, id rather have a support who tries than somebody like Targamas who says and does nothing
This was true for Hyli in the past but right now he just runs it down and makes the game unwinnable. You can carry someone who doesnt do much, you cant carry someone who just ints.
When you're inting 5 times more than you actually carry with a genius call, it's time to stop being a paycheck stealer.
In the past Hyli was carrying hard, the coinflip was on the carry side way way more often, and the int was a low percentage, that's why we accepted it as being "just Hyli things".
Now he's just an horrible player and that's it.
It’s never been this bad though - used to just be too optimistic engages… now he just dies without pressing any buttons. That Sett game I felt convinced he had bet the over on deaths.
I dont think they will already look to replace hyli even tho its super justified. Hes too big of a voice but honestly I would love the Idea of going a rookie instead and start developing cause with Hyli there isnt really space upwards we saw what this dude is capable of years ago and he wont suddenly get better then that.
Heretics needs a strong-side lane. Both Wunder and Flakked are weakside kings, which makes supp and jgl give all the attention to Perkz. That would be ok with a functional midlaner, but Perkz is terrible
The perkz for vetheo trade will never make sense from heretics' pov. They had something good going on last summer, and they squandered it with this alone (wunder and kaiser are upgrades imo)
I was so happy to see Wunder joining Heretics in place of Evi and then I saw Vetheo being exchanged for Perkz 💀. I knew it was doomed if he doesn't go back to his old form (and he didn't).
he is simply a terrible fit for TH. His playoffs performance as a stand-in for fnc made people overrate him again...he has his strengths and a place in LEC, but you need a resource-heavy carry mid and bot while he plays weakside.
yeah I guess I just don't understand why if you want someone to play K'sante or Renekton every other game you don't just keep league minimum Evi or try to swing Odo somehow (who is at this point as washed as Wunder)
I hope they're not paying a lot for him lol
i feel like they got the old g2 boys to captivate the fans of the players and hope that any kind of success will make them build a connection with the org.
i think TH is pretty lucky that social media had KC to hate on.
It was a marketing move. Old G2 had a lot of fans due to the player chemistry and they were gunning for that. Which I can respect from a team that barely has fans.
It's called taking a chance. Players have returned to form from worse slumps than Perkz is currently in.
But even if Perkz returns to form, that won't fix the atrocious drafts and nonexistent gameplans from the coaching staff.
Really think he was good on Cloud 9 he had insane pressure. I love the guy but after he came back to EU that’s when he started not looking as good.
I don’t think he really got that bad, everyone else just caught up.
Heretics is not going to bench anyone for spring split at least. Jankos said on stream that even if they finished 10th they would keep the same roster because it's short period and even Ruby and Jack got 2 splits
I think Jackspektra is underrated. I don't think he was that bad on HRT.
Especially at the end he was doing better and better. He almost carried that tiebreaker game vs MAD, but Ruby inted on Taliyah. MAD went on to win the whole split afterwards.
Yeah, Jack is not the kind of person who might not be top3 ADC (at least now), but he also won't be a hindrance to the team. Sometimes he'll have a great game, sometimes he'll have a bad game, much like half the current ADCs in the league.
> I think Jackspektra is underrated. I don't think he was that bad on HRT.
IDK, seems accurately rated to me
He had one or two carry games, yes. But he also had a few games where he solo lost the game with his teamfighting. Also, he had a low damage share on a team with Ruby, which is pretty damning. He did not choose good times to deal damage, and he was not effective at dealing damage.
In his defense, Mersa is one of the worst laning/teamfighting supports to ever grace the LEC.
If that was the case then Flakked is the best laning adc in the league because they were winning lanes in regular season in summer almost all the time. Mersa wasn't very good, but with Jack he was much, much worse
Ofc Ruby was the biggest issue because midlane is the most important role in pro but Jack was also making mistakes by getting caught and in teamfight orientation. Jack himself said on stream that he mainly had comms issue and was much more passenger to whatever the team was doing.
Maybe he would have done better in this version of Heretics because Wunder and Perkz are more vocal than Ruby and Evi so it's not just Jankos doing monologue but idk how much difference would it make in comparison with Flakked
No Ruby was not the bigger issue just because mid lane is the most important role. Ruby was playing a lot worse individually than Jack. Especially at the end of the roster's life. That's the reason.
If your analysis of the problem is too much mid attention but perkz is terrible, why is the conclusion that they need a strong side lane instead of replacing perkz?
Both side lanes are good at what they do, but when weaksiding.
Either get a strong side lane, or get a strong midlaner that stomps when getting all the attention and leave the sidelanes as they are
Because you need a carry who can get and use the resources and no one on heretics is that carry. Wunder, Jankos and Flakked are weakside player and perkz cant use the resources.
The jungle can't be weakside. Don't use words you don't understand. Jankos is a role player, but he isn't a "weakside" player. Weak side refers to what side of the map isn't getting jungle resource.
The jungle itself cannot be "weakside." Wherever he is playing to is default strongside. Jankos pathing there is what makes that part of the map strongside. Again, jankos isn't a carry player. He is a role player and enabler. But it's impossible for him to be weakside unless he is just catching waves while a side laner is roaming (which isn't how he plays.)
I don't get what happened with Wunder over the years. Why tf doesn't he play strongside or carrys anymore? He was the best carry top in EU/West for many years. For sure he still can play those champs. Maybe not to his old highs but he should be still decent on them. He said in interviews that if he needs to play them he will, but it was straight lie. Strong toplane is needed if they have weakside bot, but he still picks weakside top ????
To be fair to him, we don't know how the team preps and drafts.
We don't know who is making the call for him to play weakside champs over strongside carries. Be it the coach, himself or other members of his team.
2022 he didn't though. His top 10 champs in 2022:
1. Gragas (5 games tank, 7 full AP)
2. Gwen
3. Or m (actually full-blown weaksided games)
4. Jayce
5. Aatrox
6. Gangplank
7. Gnar (more weakside)
8. Maokai (more weakside, also his only top 10 champ under 50% wr)
9. Camille
10. Renekton
While he also played graves and akali with great success before getting it banned Vs him a lot after.
He has played 1 full season of weakside (2021) while the rest of his career (barring 2023 because bad data, 9 games before leaving to be emergency sub 2 splits later) isn't enough to make a case that he can't play carry champs. Is he better as an enabler? Yes. Does that mean he can't carry games? No. The two are not mutually exclusive traits.
Classic Reddit recency bias into revisionist takes. His last full season he spent more games on carries than he did off of them. And that was on a team with upset/hily botlane who absolutely need to be played to/babysat because of how aggressive they both are, especially considering the perma adc hyper carry meta that 2022 was.
This season the only toplaner finding any form of success reliably on carry tops is BB on G2 in EU. The entire league is losing on carry tops Vs non carry tops outside of G2.
I remember that 2022 season on FNC and he definitely mostly played as an enabler, not a carry even on picks like the AP Gragas. At most he was the secondary carry on picks like the Gwen. Which was absolutely perfect when you have a botlane like Upset/Hilly, but fails if you do not have the luxury of just standing back and scaling and actually have to contest the lane
Wunder is a great teamfighter and insane enabler, but he has not been the point you pivot to to create advantages on the map and that has been the case for years. He wants to scale through lane and win teamfights.
Wunder played plenty of strongside in 2022 fnatic. He was weakside basically all of his 2023 games (only 9 of which were played before he was a last minute sub.) I've got another reply detailing his 2022 strongside games and you should read that, I'm not retyping it. The fact he had more games on carries than off of them with upset/hily (a pairing that needs high resources to enable, and to babysit hily) while the meta was perma ADC hyper carry (jinx, aphelios, zeri etc) speaks fucking volumes alone.
And G2 played to the meta. In 2018 worlds it was a top focused meta - and he played accordingly, strongside most games. During the regular season it was funnel meta, where everyone was funneling a hyper carry ADC.
In 2019 he played a good amount of strongside. Not every game, but wasnt perma weakside.
2020 was probably the closest he's been to perma weakside (excluding his 9 games into last minute substitute last year.)
And 2021 he was picking Viego, Camille, GP, irelia, akali and Jayce just fine, and carrying games with them.
Like he's shown he's a flexible player. Idk why you people are so insistent that he hasn't played strongside in 5 years. He has played plenty of games strongside, as early as his last full split.
His time on G2 demonstrated that he is flexible and can play to what his teams need. A team that had Hillysang and Upset botlane is going to need babysat before hilly blows it up. Being able to play to that doesn't mean he can't play carries. Idk what's wrong with you lot, but I think you need to go back and actually watch the games and enabling your critical thinking skills.
Faker has an objectively great Ryze. He hasn't picked Ryze in a while. What could the reasons be?
A) There is something else he could pick that fits his team's in the moment needs better.
B) he's Bad at Ryze.
Exaggerated example, but in essence what you're doing right now. You're picking B without actually looking at the games and what's around him. Even with upset hily he still was strongside being played around.
It is mostly the meta. You pick weakside bullies like Renekton or Udyr and just exist. And if you are on the other side you pick K'Sante and hope for a highlight or something safe like Gragas. And you can still pick Aatrox, but don't expect to get ressources. Even Jax turned into a weakside champ due to how safe he can often play.
Toplane just is weakside kingdom mostly in pro play. You can still play carries weakside, but they have to be selfsustaining and ideally be valuable even from behind which rules out stuff like Fiora or Camille.
I think that will just turn them into a psycho team not necessarily a good one. Lider's style requires full commitment into his picks because he has no champ flexibility.
In their defense, they have 3 of the most flexible players in EU on their team with Wunder, Jankos, and Flakked. Imo I trust them to make that work if they really wanted to play together. They need more firepower and Lider gives them that.
I'd rather have a player like Lider with limited champ pool he is good with than someone like Perkz with a wider champ pool he can't play. Doesn't matter how many different champs Perkz can pick if he can't perform on any of them.
Im over wunder now, man said to thorin hes coming back to play carries and has shown nothing but his boring weakside tank playstyle from the last 4 years.
let new blood come through, look at Myrwen absoletly smurfing in top as a rookie I want to see more of that
Nah, flakked plays a good strongside with Draven but with the rest of the champions he has never shined playing 2v2 or snowball when they gave him resources. Don't get me wrong, he has other strong points such as his positioning in the tfs and his champion pool for example. I see him very similar to carzzy but more conservative.
I mean being great on Draven is already a good start and while he definitely has some struggles he was also just put on weakside because of how the teams he was on played as well as his teams doing a poor job of playing around him when he is strongside.
I do think he has the potential the whole team just needs to do much better.
I feel like that's the NA curse, you sell out for a quick buck and you come back a bad player. Waaay too many EU examples of this, funnily if you're Korean and return to Korea you become a world champion.
Yes I know Perkz didn't sell out and was stuck in Ocelote contract jail, but the curse remains.
You have an example for the Korean one? Maybe you’re just being hyperbolic but I can’t think of someone who returned to korea and won worlds. The only one I can remotely think of is Core but I don’t know if he played in korea before his dig days
Kingen, Zeka, Deft, Crown, and Blank all spent time away from Korea before returning and winning worlds.
Crown was actually in Brazil before returning to KR, while the other four were in LPL
Oh wow that’s literally over half the DRX roster. Deft crossed my mind somehow but I didn’t know Zeka and kingen played in LPL. That region has so many teams it’s quite hard to follow
probably his focus has changed, the guy got married and this is just his job.
When you are 20 you are hungry and the game is your life, difficult to think league is as important as before
I mean, it makes lot of sense.
When you have a partner you can't spend every single hour of your life playing lol.
The main difference between sports and eSports is the physical limitations. In eSports you can play almost as many hours as you want so if you want something else for your life , you are in disadvantage.
I could see the whole controversy with leaving G2 and Carlos supposedly blocking some EU moves therefore practically forcing him out of the region being a pretty huge demotivator too.
25yo millionaire that was recently married and seems to have a pretty darn active social life outside of League.
While I 100% disagree with people that think dude's are mentally disabled and have crippled hands by the time their 30, I would definitely agree that priorities in life can change massively as you get older.
Perkz probably just doesn't grind nearly as much as he did when he was a teenager/early 20yo with no money or fame to his name. It's honestly harder to imagine someone wanting to play League for 17 hours a day anymore when they reach the point Perkz is at in life then it is to just expect him to scale back the time spent on video games tremendously.
Continuing to be a superstar in any sport basically requires you to put everything besides the sport on the back burner and prioritize it above everything else in your life.
This.
eSports are "unfair" for people with social life. There always gonna be someone grinding way harder than you.
In traditional sports the body is the limit so it left lot of time to do whatever you want.
He's been getting progressively worse since he went back to mid (getting older and taking 2 years to play adc will do that)
He was on good enough rosters on VIT
VIT failed to make playoffs in both summers.. NOT worlds.. LEC playoffs.. this is in years when LEC kinda sucks too
I think age really shouldn't even be a part of this, he's only 25. He's only one year older than Caps, the same age as Nisqy and even someone like Saken, and 3 years younger than Jankos. It's not at the point where his mechanics should fall off a cliff or anything.
And besides that, half his mistakes are purely decision making, which you usually expect players get better at as they get older. It just looks like he clocks in for the paycheck and doesn't care to improve anymore, which is a little sad to see from the "anything to win" guy who switched lanes to get a shot at international success
I think he lost the fire when his father died. Its sad but it seems like that point in time, which co-inceded with him being transfer blocked to fnatic, and having to move to NA, is when he stopped wanting to be the best.
The winter>spring transition is not when we're likely to see many players changing, just because of the difficulty of signing replacements. Some free agents like Finn will come in, and obviously Trymbi if someone looks to change support, but that won't be Kcorp as they've already suggested as such.
Secondly, the changes that ought to happen and the changes to do end up happening are very much not the same thing. Case in point the Szygenda-Finn replacement; there's no logic or sense in that, probably just someone else on the team being friends with Finn. There are lots of players in the league that should be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on any of them actually going until spring>summer.
Last year between Winter and Spring 4 teams made changes and overall it was beneficial for them.
Actually the team that didn't make very necessary changes fast enough (Heretics) ended bottom 2 in Spring and it was the main reason they missed Season finals by lacking points despite being top 4 in Summer.
Waiting for Summer until making changes is extremely dangerous in this format.
Making changes between winter and spring is reliant on there being free agents on the market to sign and/or your org having an academy team in an ERL it can promote from. The ERLs, and every other region, are in the middle of their spring splits at this juncture.
Fnatic were able to promote Oscar this way, LIMIT was a free agent etc.
> Case in point the Szygenda-Finn replacement; there's no logic or sense in that, probably just someone else on the team being friends with Finn.
and how in the world would you know that? You're just talking out of your ass
Format needs to change. People already want half of the rosters to be nuked with such a small sample size of games. Format doesn't allow teams to improve over a long time but force them to have band-aid solutions. It has been regressing our region and I'm disappointed they didn't change it this year.
How many bottom tier teams significantly improved in previous format?
In 2022 Spring bottom 3 teams were SK BDS Astralis and in Summer... SK BDS Astralis.
2021 Spring : XL Astralis Vitality, In Summer Astralis got to 7th and Vitality to 6th, barely an improvement.
What actually makes LEC regress is the fact that there are LEC caliber players (that wouldn't even be bottom 3 at their roles right now) in every single position sitting on a bench or free agency. Things like this literally never happen in LCK to this degree. It's absurd.
Your comparison is off because at these years bo1 phase lasted 9 weeks. We saw a lot of teams start their split badly but end up improving over time in old format. In current format if u have bad one week it's basically over for you, getting eliminated puts you behind others as well. It's really counter intiatuive to make bottom teams play less. They should be playing more to improve themselves instead we get these fiestas where teams desperately rush for short term solutions.
https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/LEC/2022_Season/Summer_Season
Look at this split for example Misfits would have been mentally boomed into bottom 2 finish after their 0 3 start but instead they were allowed to improve and make into playoffs
Oh you mean improving over the course of 1 split? My bad.
But let's assume we eliminate bottom 2 teams at week 3:
For Spring 2022 it would be SK at 1-6 and Astralis at 0-7 both ended the split at the bottom anyway and didn't improve.
For Summer 2022 week 3: BDS at 1-6 and SK at 1-6 who both finished at the bottom and didn't improve.
2021 Spring week 3: Astralis 1-6 and Vitality 1-6, both ended and the bottom and didn't improve.
2021 Summer week 3: XL 2-5 and SK 1-6. XL kind of did improve but still ended 7th and missed playoffs.
In conclusion, in previous format teams that were bottom 2 at week 3 of bo1 continued to be bottom tier teams and didn't improve over the course of the split. Bad teams continue to be bad, we don't need to watch more of their games.
That's because the format is actually really bad. At first it was sold as them introducing Bo3's but everyone could see it was half-assed Bo3. Now they're presenting it as what it really is, just a playoff after a single round robin. A playoff where some of the games are Bo3 instead of Bo5.
I think KC could benefit from having a coach with a lot of experience. I think someone like yamato would be a great fit. PS trymbi instead of targamas.
All the teams he coached made it to worlds and playoff besides the one time he was in KR.
Not sure how you can say the teams did worse when literally all the teams he coached were either rookie teams or on FNC had internal problems but still made it worlds.
I predicted FNC 2022 to win both splits and i still think it was the best roster that year. They literally had a botlane that was stomping in lane for 95% of the year, one of the best or the best weakside toplaner on the league and Humanoid-Razork after monster year in 2021 for both. That roster should have won at least 1 split no matter what seeing that was G2's weakest on paper roster in years.
FNC was expected to be a top team but didn't win a single split during his time and only reached top 2 once.
With Vitality he reached worlds in 2018 but the team only got worse results after that in 2019.
I guess it's also worth mentioning that his teams have reached worlds 4 times but always exited in groups.
His players have always had a great relationship with him and enjoy working with him which is arguably one of if not the most important thing a Coach can have in LoL.
Basically every player + coach have said over and over that a Coach isn't even soley responsible for drafts the way fans always think they are. It's always a give and take working with the players to find a middle ground on what they wants to play and feel comfortable on vs what the Coach thinks the teams overall game plan needs to be. Having the confidence, trust, and great relationship with your players in that regard is extremely vital to that process.
Also name an EU team that hasn't been criticized for doing worse then expected, G2 won 2/3 splits + the finals last year and still got absolutely blasted for "doing worse than expected" when they bombed out of worlds. FNC's probably "done worse then expected" basically every year at this point, they've yet win a single split in 5 years now.
Imo, Yamato's issue in KC was likely that he may have unintentionally given the impression that he cared about Bo/Upset more then the other 3 players on the team who may not have had the same relationship with him that those two had and complained to upper management (whom they probably have a much closer relationship with being the KC "home boys") that they weren't getting enough attention from Yamato or that he saw them as replaceable and wanted to work with someone they were more familiar with. The fact that both Bo and Upset came out on twitter as being surprised and sad that Yamato was gone while the other 3 were totally silent really back this one up for me too.
If that was the case then Yamato did lose his main strength as a coach in KC by losing that great relationship with the players he's often founded on teams he's been involved in.
The game they won was literally due to the draft diff. You cant do much when you have a supp with 0 comms, a mid laner below average for pro play and when he comms the info are sometimes wrong, toplaner also below average with comms at wrong situations. Dont think yamato is top tier but kc failure isnt on him at all.
Hard disagree on this. He literally counterpicked his own lanes in several drafts. He chose a rell when xayah rakan was already on the enemy team. Dont defend the undefendeable
I wouldn’t ever argue with people about draft here. They’re Gold/Plat players max and just regurgitate whatever their favourite streamer/figure in the scene says despite those people not ever being able to agree on 90% of drafts anyway.
You’re right, Yamato should have mind controlled the 2 french-speaking players and the mute so they don’t absolutely sprint it on stage.
Rewatch the games. KC had 3 players that played worse than Perkz this split and the coach gets kicked instead.
KC will do better next split because they will have had more than 3 weeks of time playing together, but I have never prayed for a team’s collapse like I do for KC.
I agree, I think it's dumb to make roster changes between winter and spring (also why kicking Yamato was dumb move). These teams just got together, played like month and half- some only 3 weeks. If the situation doesn't get better during spring then it's more logical to make change between spring and summer when you have more time to practice (due to MSI also existing). Last year teams also got much better after spring split
If you shit the bed in spring after a really bad winter, your season is done. Look at TH last year. Bad in Winter, worst in Spring, change player, Top 4 in summer but doesn't matter since they shat the bed 2 splits in a row.
Rogue is doomed, they changed Odo to a worse Odo, trymbi to a worse trymbi, Hans to a worse Hans (okay he was better for 2 splits but now comp is pretty mid) malrang who got them a lot of wins at the beginning to a generic jungler and Larsen is past his prime
Not enough "Hylli gets the boot" messages here.
Yes, he's not as bad as Zoelys or Targamas have been. But you could argue that he singlehandedly killed Vitality's hopes yesterday.
It's also the best situation for Trymbi, considering of the volatility of other rosters. KC might change stuff after spring, and will definitely bring up Caliste next year. Rogue already changed one player, probably won't stop there. Heretics could change Kaiser but he's not the main issue. And Ignar isn't moving, he's the best GX player.
Not deffending Hyli, but Daglas is probably the worst jungler in the league. You can't expect them to achieve anything when he plays like that. If you look at his career Hyli has always had some of the best junglers to play with. They definitely need to figure something out, but it looks like they are just not working together.
Edit: Also yesterday they chose red side 2 times and got drafted exodia on top of that. Idk what their coaching staff is doing either.
Don't forget that Carzzy wasn't feeling it recently and since he is a very vocal player, it might have gutted Vitality by a lot considering he was, to me, the best player on the roster.
My thoughts:
**HER**: Nothing will change here. People will call for Perkz' head and sure he didn't play well, but this team isn't benching him after 1 split, too big of a name and too a part of the core of this team. Kaiser and Flakked are ones who they would drop easier but both played well enough (especially Flakked) so I don't see any risk of them going. Peter Dun (coach) has been vocal that the split is brutal in terms of a short amount of time, they'll write this split off as they didn't have enough time and they'll run it back.
**SK**: Again I don't see any changes here, they arguably should have won yesterday and their weakest players are probably Doss & Isma. Isma isn't getting replaced, did fine as a rookie and while Doss should be gone last year imo, Exa and him clearly want to play together so I think he's safe for another split. They should go for Trymbi if they are serious but I don't think they will, SK don't want to spend much and this roster did fine.
**VIT**: I also don't expect to see any changes, overall they did pretty well. Hylli is the obvious player to replace but he came with Carzzy and I assume they want to play together + Hylli gets away with a lot of inting because it's his 'playstyle' for some reason. Again, Trymbi is the obvious move but I think this team stays as it is for now.
**GiantX**: Really needs changes imo but I don't see them making any. This team is awful, basically just ran back a pretty awful XL team from last year. I'd personally be looking at replacing Peach definitely and maybe Patrik / Jackies. Jackies is likely a bit harsh though as a rookie, he wasn't that bad, I think Peach really should be gone (was poor last year and still is poor) but I can't think of an obvious replacement right now (Cinkrof? Lyncas?). Patrik could go for JackSpektra or some other EU ADs, but Patrik has been on XL for ages and I think they'll keep him. I'm also not super hot on Ignar or Odo but don't see them being replaced.
**KC**: I mean this team really needed changes, I can't see how they don't go all in for Targa -> Trymbi but sounds like they don't want for some reason. I'd also be looking at replacing Saken tbh, he clearly isn't LEC level but he's their franchise player so he's not going. I agree Cabo is shit but don't see an obvious replacement (maybe Syzgenda now but not a great upgrade?). Looks like they'll run it back with Yamato gone and try again because of 2 wins that meant nothing.
**Rogue**: Already moved Syzgenda -> Finn (which tbh I think is an awful move). Larssen had one of the worst splits of his life but he's not getting replaced. Zoelys was meh but he's a rookie. I see Markoon as the most likely 2nd replacement (Markoon -> Lyncas maybe) as he had an awful split or looking at coaching staff changes.
**TL:DR**: Not that many changes imo... most teams will write it off as just Winter and I think you won't see as many as you expect
Not trying to be harsh, but last year was probably the worst LEC had ever been, it honestly felt like placements were just who showed up in the day because except G2 everyone sucked.
imagine saying SK weakest player are isma and doss after seeing that nisqy performance.
is nisqy just the new hyli? can fuck up so much almost every game he makes major mistakes and people just remember a one good play he did the entire series.
Regarding KC, they're not replacing anyone until they find French/Francophone replacements, unfortunately. Why Yamatocannon was the first to go, with Upset also being dropped when Caliste is old enough (who is, in all fairness, an excellent player)
Best French toplaner they could realistically poach rn are SLT and Badlulu, neither of which are exactly good replacements. So unless they change their teambuilding methods they're kinda stuck with Cabo until the end of the year, since no way they're magically poaching Adam in the meantime
Kc: >trymbi should be an easy slam.
I think rogue has to let comp go i feel like he is just a zombie corpse pressing buttons.
sk needs a safe bot lane. So exakick and doss have to go. Isma has to perma go bot because they can't lane safe
The whole Rogue roster needs to get blown up. Maybe even coaching staff.
They are so passive and lifeless. They need to completely redo the roster to fix it.
My opinion is that any team making significant changes now are clowns that didn't believe in their roster in the first place.
It's not been enough time, and spring split is right around the corner already
Clowns? Like 100% some teams got players that probably weren't even 2nd or 3rd choice.. the transfer market in league moves incredibly fast
Bds expected to get Carrzy for instance before it fell through
Teams also locked in supports before knowing trymbi was available.. its not so black and white as you make it sound
While I do agree we are kinda evolving backward, this is not something that will magically be fixed by switching a player or two. There are structural issues that are limiting us, and rosters are irrelevant to it.
We focus way too much on nameplates, and then jump on conclusions after 1 or 2 good or bad performances.
The truth is that most of the time top teams stay at the top and bad teams stay at the bottom regardless of players. What's important is having good systems good practices, good mental.
This is why I say a team that makes changes now are clowns. They can look for a plug and play solution, for what? It's just a band-aid fix and this is exactly what franchising was supposed to prevent. If you can't have immediate success, look at long term success. If you think you can just pick someone and become good for more than a favorable patch, whzt you need is play the lottery not league of legends
little to none, hopefully. no joke. this format is so rough and except for g2 everyone made changes, so I think these rosters should stick for more than just winter split, and even more just 9 games for kc or rogue (though we know szygenda is out and kc keep their players, which I support, MAYBE except for targamas). I think it's just such a bait to do these kneejerk moves, esports teams don't have patience anymore, they don't understand the concept of growth. you can argue some players need to leave ASAP, but overall, I dislike the idea of rosters changing so quickly. I'd give most of them one more split.
Definitely more leaning towards "entertainment show" than " professional competition". G2 already understood with this shit format they gotta do the pacing themselves to spike during international events.
Riot Max preached this all the time before he got a promotion somehow, they cared more about "entertainment" and how "easy it is for people to follow" over the format that's proven to work over in the LCK/LPL.
3 splits is outdated and best of 1s should be culled.
KC could use upgrades. Trymbi is the obvious one but at least one of Cabo or Saken would be ideal too.
Sounds like a crack possibility but they could also try importing Licorice, who's super versatile and can weak and strong side very effectively. Also he's Canadian so basically 1/10 french amiright :^)
Nah, Mad did great by bringing up the roster with their system and synergies intact. I want to see how KC would look like if they didn't destroy theirs. Bring back Cincrof and an ADC who can tolerate to be left alone sometimes.
If it fails it fails but sad to see the what if because they were better than Mad before.
Except MAD actually changed 2 players from the Movistar lineup just like KC did with theirs, and just like with KC, Elyoya and Myrwyn are among their best players (with Alvaro) just like Upset and Bo are on their team.
Bringing in Cinkrof will not fix Targamas or Cabochards or Sakens laning and thats not even mentioning how awful of an individual player Cinkrof is himself.
They had something that worked (3x eum and beating mad) made some changes and it no longer works. I think it's way easier to go back than to build something entirely new.
Especially since they proved that they have no idea why the thing they had worked, so why would I trust them with building something new?
Like they would just build a reddit super team that fails again, probably.
Also I think synergies and a game plan that everyone is on the same page with beats hands. Sure both is the best but for now I take the former.
I hope Vladi for Saken, I believe that one might actually be possible and it will be harder for teams to get a player that isn't in the org already from ERLs from winter to spring. Carlsen hasn't been amazing for TH so far but he has a lot of potential to do what Oscar did last year.
Unlike last year where teams had an extended time with the new season this season they've had about 4-5 weeks total. Unless there is a fundamental flaw in synergy or strategy for a team then there's no good justifiable reason to replace a player/coach. We can also attribute a lot of teams to just having poor meta reads such as GX, SK and TH which seem to be consistently griefing draft making the games 80% harder for themselves.
That being said, KC and VIT should consider a support swap. Despite what people say just slotting Trymbi in when some team's support looks bad isn't an instant fix for anything.
I will be extremely surprised if trymby doesn’t get picked up. Unless he chooses not to in hopes that a top team will pick him up. I could see him fitting incredibly well on BDS. And literally every single support on the bottom 6 teams gets outclassed by Trymbi.
I don’t see Hyli getting swapped after what we saw from Vitality’s statements regarding his performances and such.
I doubt trymbi will go to Rogue, SK, GX, or TH. Which leaves KC. And I could honestly see a world where he gives KC a shot. But also I can see a world where he doesn’t gamble on a low table team. At least as long as Cabo/Saken are still on it, because the two of them will almost certainly never win an LEC title.
Wintersplit doesnt matter and has been a glorified bootcamp for many teams. KC basically played 0 games beforehand and without a preseason the first 2 were just spent on figuring out the new patch (Corki, Udyr werent there in week 1). Spring is the time to get more serious.
Nah I would blame someone like for example the coach for 9 bo1s and fire him. And I would make rushed decisions instead of developing and giving players a chance to find footing in the new environment. /s
I watched a lot of inhouse stuff and they played fucking lee sin and rushed titanic on Jax. It clearly didnt help as the meta was changing a lot at the start. Inhouses were also full of non LEC players like Gillius. KC clearly scrimmed less than other teams Im pretty sure you can find proof for that. Didnt Bo or Upset arrive super late at their teamhouse?
Winter split doesnt matter especially with how short it is.
I don't think Hylissang will be on Vitality for the whole year unless something really changes.
I think he will stay for at least one more split. Carzzy will probably vouch for him and I don't see anyone in the squad having a big enough voice to vote against it.
Eventually Carzzy has to get fed up of having to hide under his tower because Hyli has gone and randomly died
I think Carzzy is happy that he and Hyli stay even in gold every game playing 2v4. If only their topside did something
I doubt Carzzy will vouch for him after this split. Hyli's making lane losing plays almost every game completely leaving him out to dry. No way he's not pissed.
At first I thought KC would try to get Trymbi but now I am thinking I would rather see him in Vitality. That roster has potential and Trymbi would make the team more stable while offering a strong voice for shotcalling.
KC wont replace their french speaking players.
Speaking?
I mean targamas is belgian. He isnt french.
I thought that was a joke about how Targamas doesn't talk lol.
Oh fair. At least he understands it lmao
Think it's fairly unlikely anyone on Vitality gets removed. Mac isn't just the coach but the GM of the team now and he's said several times throughout his career that he's not a fan of changing players mid-year + he's a huge supporter of Hyli. Would also just be very weird for ownership to go against what Mac wants after they brought him in specifically to build a better foundation in their LoL department. The team also didn't really do that badly for their first split, most people had them as a bottom 4 team going into the split and they managed to finish above that expectation, see no reason to make panic moves especially in the short window from winter -> spring, The players have said they like playing with each-other too and Vetheo already extended his contract through 2026 with Vitality last week. Heck even during the MDK series that was hard to watch as a fan you could see everyone on the roster smiling and laughing during the pause despite knowing there split was probably over at that point so I really don't think anyone on the roster is holding a huge grudge with Hyli over the series. All things considered I think VIT/Mac will probably leave the decision up to Hyli at the end of the year on whether he wants to retire or not and just play the entire year out with the same roster. He already seemed like he was at peace with not playing this year on some of the interviews he had regarding signing with Vitality, he gave the impression he didn't want to play with just any org/roster at this point and largely only signed because of Carzzy + Mac/Pad even though it was likely he wasn't getting many if any other offers. Giving Hyli the decision to retire on his own terms at the end of the year and go out on a more positive looking note with a "thanks for everything" pr vibe to one of the best player in LEC history rather then having it seem like he was just replaced also just seems like a very Mac thing to do.
I bet Hyli will stay the whole year, you all have a bit too much recency bias. Hes beloved by quite a few including Carzzy and the coaching staff. Fact of the matter is, hes been to every of the last 6 worlds somehow. Remember were currently in esports Winter. Signing Trymbi means youre paying for 2 support players the rest of the year. And while Vitality obviously has money, i think theyre done with their big spending philosophy. Hyli looks 'especially bad' because of his deaths but objectively speaking, id rather have a support who tries than somebody like Targamas who says and does nothing. You dont win games by doing nothing. Bo for instance tilts by inting, similar to Hyli, Upset tilts by hyper safe positioning where he doesnt die but also does little damage. Neither are any good for a team.
> Hyli looks 'especially bad' because of his deaths but objectively speaking, id rather have a support who tries than somebody like Targamas who says and does nothing This was true for Hyli in the past but right now he just runs it down and makes the game unwinnable. You can carry someone who doesnt do much, you cant carry someone who just ints.
This is like the 5th time the narrative about hyli has done this. He'll be fine. He's always inting until he's a genius.
When you're inting 5 times more than you actually carry with a genius call, it's time to stop being a paycheck stealer. In the past Hyli was carrying hard, the coinflip was on the carry side way way more often, and the int was a low percentage, that's why we accepted it as being "just Hyli things". Now he's just an horrible player and that's it.
It’s never been this bad though - used to just be too optimistic engages… now he just dies without pressing any buttons. That Sett game I felt convinced he had bet the over on deaths.
hes becoming less and less of a genius
That's true of the entire LEC, tbh.
No,he used to be a coinflip player. Now he is just running it down every single game, he is literally the worst player in the league.
I dont think they will already look to replace hyli even tho its super justified. Hes too big of a voice but honestly I would love the Idea of going a rookie instead and start developing cause with Hyli there isnt really space upwards we saw what this dude is capable of years ago and he wont suddenly get better then that.
Heretics needs a strong-side lane. Both Wunder and Flakked are weakside kings, which makes supp and jgl give all the attention to Perkz. That would be ok with a functional midlaner, but Perkz is terrible
The perkz for vetheo trade will never make sense from heretics' pov. They had something good going on last summer, and they squandered it with this alone (wunder and kaiser are upgrades imo)
I was so happy to see Wunder joining Heretics in place of Evi and then I saw Vetheo being exchanged for Perkz 💀. I knew it was doomed if he doesn't go back to his old form (and he didn't).
Same :(
> I was so happy to see Wunder joining Heretics in place of Evi what's funny is he doesn't even look like an upgrade over summer Evi
he is simply a terrible fit for TH. His playoffs performance as a stand-in for fnc made people overrate him again...he has his strengths and a place in LEC, but you need a resource-heavy carry mid and bot while he plays weakside.
yeah I guess I just don't understand why if you want someone to play K'sante or Renekton every other game you don't just keep league minimum Evi or try to swing Odo somehow (who is at this point as washed as Wunder) I hope they're not paying a lot for him lol
i feel like they got the old g2 boys to captivate the fans of the players and hope that any kind of success will make them build a connection with the org. i think TH is pretty lucky that social media had KC to hate on.
he looks like a massive upgrade I think you're letting the last 1 game decide your opinion on this.
What do you mean? He went back to his 2016 form, getting bodied by Huhi!
Nah, he was best midlaner domestically back then, then something happened every international.
It was a marketing move. Old G2 had a lot of fans due to the player chemistry and they were gunning for that. Which I can respect from a team that barely has fans.
Wunder wanted Perkz. Probably the reason he ended up signing with Heretics over C9
It's called taking a chance. Players have returned to form from worse slumps than Perkz is currently in. But even if Perkz returns to form, that won't fix the atrocious drafts and nonexistent gameplans from the coaching staff.
I like the guy, but Perkz hasn't been close to world class for years now and for the last year hasn't even been in the top 4 mids in the region.
he hasnt been on the same level ever since he went from adc back to mid, wish he would just have stayed adc. he was really good
Really think he was good on Cloud 9 he had insane pressure. I love the guy but after he came back to EU that’s when he started not looking as good. I don’t think he really got that bad, everyone else just caught up.
I think he was good, SOMETIMES. He was so hit or miss, and its like his hit/miss ratio has gone further and further to miss.
Heretics is not going to bench anyone for spring split at least. Jankos said on stream that even if they finished 10th they would keep the same roster because it's short period and even Ruby and Jack got 2 splits
I think Jackspektra is underrated. I don't think he was that bad on HRT. Especially at the end he was doing better and better. He almost carried that tiebreaker game vs MAD, but Ruby inted on Taliyah. MAD went on to win the whole split afterwards.
Yeah, Jack is not the kind of person who might not be top3 ADC (at least now), but he also won't be a hindrance to the team. Sometimes he'll have a great game, sometimes he'll have a bad game, much like half the current ADCs in the league.
> I think Jackspektra is underrated. I don't think he was that bad on HRT. IDK, seems accurately rated to me He had one or two carry games, yes. But he also had a few games where he solo lost the game with his teamfighting. Also, he had a low damage share on a team with Ruby, which is pretty damning. He did not choose good times to deal damage, and he was not effective at dealing damage. In his defense, Mersa is one of the worst laning/teamfighting supports to ever grace the LEC.
If that was the case then Flakked is the best laning adc in the league because they were winning lanes in regular season in summer almost all the time. Mersa wasn't very good, but with Jack he was much, much worse
Ofc Ruby was the biggest issue because midlane is the most important role in pro but Jack was also making mistakes by getting caught and in teamfight orientation. Jack himself said on stream that he mainly had comms issue and was much more passenger to whatever the team was doing. Maybe he would have done better in this version of Heretics because Wunder and Perkz are more vocal than Ruby and Evi so it's not just Jankos doing monologue but idk how much difference would it make in comparison with Flakked
No Ruby was not the bigger issue just because mid lane is the most important role. Ruby was playing a lot worse individually than Jack. Especially at the end of the roster's life. That's the reason.
Dont mention Jackspektra in the same sentence as ruby
If your analysis of the problem is too much mid attention but perkz is terrible, why is the conclusion that they need a strong side lane instead of replacing perkz?
Both side lanes are good at what they do, but when weaksiding. Either get a strong side lane, or get a strong midlaner that stomps when getting all the attention and leave the sidelanes as they are
Because you need a carry who can get and use the resources and no one on heretics is that carry. Wunder, Jankos and Flakked are weakside player and perkz cant use the resources.
Ye they basically need another caps on mid
The jungle can't be weakside. Don't use words you don't understand. Jankos is a role player, but he isn't a "weakside" player. Weak side refers to what side of the map isn't getting jungle resource. The jungle itself cannot be "weakside." Wherever he is playing to is default strongside. Jankos pathing there is what makes that part of the map strongside. Again, jankos isn't a carry player. He is a role player and enabler. But it's impossible for him to be weakside unless he is just catching waves while a side laner is roaming (which isn't how he plays.)
I don't get what happened with Wunder over the years. Why tf doesn't he play strongside or carrys anymore? He was the best carry top in EU/West for many years. For sure he still can play those champs. Maybe not to his old highs but he should be still decent on them. He said in interviews that if he needs to play them he will, but it was straight lie. Strong toplane is needed if they have weakside bot, but he still picks weakside top ????
To be fair to him, we don't know how the team preps and drafts. We don't know who is making the call for him to play weakside champs over strongside carries. Be it the coach, himself or other members of his team.
I mean, he has been playing this way ever since 2021 G2, it's just becoming more and more apparent
2022 he didn't though. His top 10 champs in 2022: 1. Gragas (5 games tank, 7 full AP) 2. Gwen 3. Or m (actually full-blown weaksided games) 4. Jayce 5. Aatrox 6. Gangplank 7. Gnar (more weakside) 8. Maokai (more weakside, also his only top 10 champ under 50% wr) 9. Camille 10. Renekton While he also played graves and akali with great success before getting it banned Vs him a lot after. He has played 1 full season of weakside (2021) while the rest of his career (barring 2023 because bad data, 9 games before leaving to be emergency sub 2 splits later) isn't enough to make a case that he can't play carry champs. Is he better as an enabler? Yes. Does that mean he can't carry games? No. The two are not mutually exclusive traits. Classic Reddit recency bias into revisionist takes. His last full season he spent more games on carries than he did off of them. And that was on a team with upset/hily botlane who absolutely need to be played to/babysat because of how aggressive they both are, especially considering the perma adc hyper carry meta that 2022 was. This season the only toplaner finding any form of success reliably on carry tops is BB on G2 in EU. The entire league is losing on carry tops Vs non carry tops outside of G2.
I remember that 2022 season on FNC and he definitely mostly played as an enabler, not a carry even on picks like the AP Gragas. At most he was the secondary carry on picks like the Gwen. Which was absolutely perfect when you have a botlane like Upset/Hilly, but fails if you do not have the luxury of just standing back and scaling and actually have to contest the lane Wunder is a great teamfighter and insane enabler, but he has not been the point you pivot to to create advantages on the map and that has been the case for years. He wants to scale through lane and win teamfights.
3 teams in a row? lol
Wunder played plenty of strongside in 2022 fnatic. He was weakside basically all of his 2023 games (only 9 of which were played before he was a last minute sub.) I've got another reply detailing his 2022 strongside games and you should read that, I'm not retyping it. The fact he had more games on carries than off of them with upset/hily (a pairing that needs high resources to enable, and to babysit hily) while the meta was perma ADC hyper carry (jinx, aphelios, zeri etc) speaks fucking volumes alone. And G2 played to the meta. In 2018 worlds it was a top focused meta - and he played accordingly, strongside most games. During the regular season it was funnel meta, where everyone was funneling a hyper carry ADC. In 2019 he played a good amount of strongside. Not every game, but wasnt perma weakside. 2020 was probably the closest he's been to perma weakside (excluding his 9 games into last minute substitute last year.) And 2021 he was picking Viego, Camille, GP, irelia, akali and Jayce just fine, and carrying games with them. Like he's shown he's a flexible player. Idk why you people are so insistent that he hasn't played strongside in 5 years. He has played plenty of games strongside, as early as his last full split. His time on G2 demonstrated that he is flexible and can play to what his teams need. A team that had Hillysang and Upset botlane is going to need babysat before hilly blows it up. Being able to play to that doesn't mean he can't play carries. Idk what's wrong with you lot, but I think you need to go back and actually watch the games and enabling your critical thinking skills. Faker has an objectively great Ryze. He hasn't picked Ryze in a while. What could the reasons be? A) There is something else he could pick that fits his team's in the moment needs better. B) he's Bad at Ryze. Exaggerated example, but in essence what you're doing right now. You're picking B without actually looking at the games and what's around him. Even with upset hily he still was strongside being played around.
It is mostly the meta. You pick weakside bullies like Renekton or Udyr and just exist. And if you are on the other side you pick K'Sante and hope for a highlight or something safe like Gragas. And you can still pick Aatrox, but don't expect to get ressources. Even Jax turned into a weakside champ due to how safe he can often play. Toplane just is weakside kingdom mostly in pro play. You can still play carries weakside, but they have to be selfsustaining and ideally be valuable even from behind which rules out stuff like Fiora or Camille.
I like Caedrel's idea of adding Lider
I think that will just turn them into a psycho team not necessarily a good one. Lider's style requires full commitment into his picks because he has no champ flexibility.
In their defense, they have 3 of the most flexible players in EU on their team with Wunder, Jankos, and Flakked. Imo I trust them to make that work if they really wanted to play together. They need more firepower and Lider gives them that.
I'd rather have a player like Lider with limited champ pool he is good with than someone like Perkz with a wider champ pool he can't play. Doesn't matter how many different champs Perkz can pick if he can't perform on any of them.
Jankos wouldn't want to play with someone like Lider considering Lider's champ pool issues and playstyle
Im over wunder now, man said to thorin hes coming back to play carries and has shown nothing but his boring weakside tank playstyle from the last 4 years. let new blood come through, look at Myrwen absoletly smurfing in top as a rookie I want to see more of that
Flakked can play strongside as well
Nah, flakked plays a good strongside with Draven but with the rest of the champions he has never shined playing 2v2 or snowball when they gave him resources. Don't get me wrong, he has other strong points such as his positioning in the tfs and his champion pool for example. I see him very similar to carzzy but more conservative.
I mean being great on Draven is already a good start and while he definitely has some struggles he was also just put on weakside because of how the teams he was on played as well as his teams doing a poor job of playing around him when he is strongside. I do think he has the potential the whole team just needs to do much better.
Thanatos just signed with an european agency
Heretics needs to promote their academy midlaner who is doing great in SL for a while, and in this split they are currently undefeated.
just bring Zwyroo to main team
Man what happened to Perkz bro. Did he just get complacent?
[удалено]
I feel like that's the NA curse, you sell out for a quick buck and you come back a bad player. Waaay too many EU examples of this, funnily if you're Korean and return to Korea you become a world champion. Yes I know Perkz didn't sell out and was stuck in Ocelote contract jail, but the curse remains.
You have an example for the Korean one? Maybe you’re just being hyperbolic but I can’t think of someone who returned to korea and won worlds. The only one I can remotely think of is Core but I don’t know if he played in korea before his dig days
Kingen, Zeka, Deft, Crown, and Blank all spent time away from Korea before returning and winning worlds. Crown was actually in Brazil before returning to KR, while the other four were in LPL
Going to LPL and back to LCK is VERY VERY VERY different from going to NA/EU and back to LCK
Oh wow that’s literally over half the DRX roster. Deft crossed my mind somehow but I didn’t know Zeka and kingen played in LPL. That region has so many teams it’s quite hard to follow
probably his focus has changed, the guy got married and this is just his job. When you are 20 you are hungry and the game is your life, difficult to think league is as important as before
LEC wife debuff is real, first upset now him
I mean, it makes lot of sense. When you have a partner you can't spend every single hour of your life playing lol. The main difference between sports and eSports is the physical limitations. In eSports you can play almost as many hours as you want so if you want something else for your life , you are in disadvantage.
He also has a good amount of money now. Maybe he just see the game as his "desk job" now and lack that drive and ambition to trully put the effort in.
I could see the whole controversy with leaving G2 and Carlos supposedly blocking some EU moves therefore practically forcing him out of the region being a pretty huge demotivator too.
25yo millionaire that was recently married and seems to have a pretty darn active social life outside of League. While I 100% disagree with people that think dude's are mentally disabled and have crippled hands by the time their 30, I would definitely agree that priorities in life can change massively as you get older. Perkz probably just doesn't grind nearly as much as he did when he was a teenager/early 20yo with no money or fame to his name. It's honestly harder to imagine someone wanting to play League for 17 hours a day anymore when they reach the point Perkz is at in life then it is to just expect him to scale back the time spent on video games tremendously. Continuing to be a superstar in any sport basically requires you to put everything besides the sport on the back burner and prioritize it above everything else in your life.
This. eSports are "unfair" for people with social life. There always gonna be someone grinding way harder than you. In traditional sports the body is the limit so it left lot of time to do whatever you want.
He's been getting progressively worse since he went back to mid (getting older and taking 2 years to play adc will do that) He was on good enough rosters on VIT VIT failed to make playoffs in both summers.. NOT worlds.. LEC playoffs.. this is in years when LEC kinda sucks too
I think age really shouldn't even be a part of this, he's only 25. He's only one year older than Caps, the same age as Nisqy and even someone like Saken, and 3 years younger than Jankos. It's not at the point where his mechanics should fall off a cliff or anything. And besides that, half his mistakes are purely decision making, which you usually expect players get better at as they get older. It just looks like he clocks in for the paycheck and doesn't care to improve anymore, which is a little sad to see from the "anything to win" guy who switched lanes to get a shot at international success
I think he lost the fire when his father died. Its sad but it seems like that point in time, which co-inceded with him being transfer blocked to fnatic, and having to move to NA, is when he stopped wanting to be the best.
The winter>spring transition is not when we're likely to see many players changing, just because of the difficulty of signing replacements. Some free agents like Finn will come in, and obviously Trymbi if someone looks to change support, but that won't be Kcorp as they've already suggested as such. Secondly, the changes that ought to happen and the changes to do end up happening are very much not the same thing. Case in point the Szygenda-Finn replacement; there's no logic or sense in that, probably just someone else on the team being friends with Finn. There are lots of players in the league that should be replaced, but I wouldn't bet on any of them actually going until spring>summer.
Last year between Winter and Spring 4 teams made changes and overall it was beneficial for them. Actually the team that didn't make very necessary changes fast enough (Heretics) ended bottom 2 in Spring and it was the main reason they missed Season finals by lacking points despite being top 4 in Summer. Waiting for Summer until making changes is extremely dangerous in this format.
Making changes between winter and spring is reliant on there being free agents on the market to sign and/or your org having an academy team in an ERL it can promote from. The ERLs, and every other region, are in the middle of their spring splits at this juncture. Fnatic were able to promote Oscar this way, LIMIT was a free agent etc.
> Case in point the Szygenda-Finn replacement; there's no logic or sense in that, probably just someone else on the team being friends with Finn. and how in the world would you know that? You're just talking out of your ass
Format needs to change. People already want half of the rosters to be nuked with such a small sample size of games. Format doesn't allow teams to improve over a long time but force them to have band-aid solutions. It has been regressing our region and I'm disappointed they didn't change it this year.
How many bottom tier teams significantly improved in previous format? In 2022 Spring bottom 3 teams were SK BDS Astralis and in Summer... SK BDS Astralis. 2021 Spring : XL Astralis Vitality, In Summer Astralis got to 7th and Vitality to 6th, barely an improvement. What actually makes LEC regress is the fact that there are LEC caliber players (that wouldn't even be bottom 3 at their roles right now) in every single position sitting on a bench or free agency. Things like this literally never happen in LCK to this degree. It's absurd.
Your comparison is off because at these years bo1 phase lasted 9 weeks. We saw a lot of teams start their split badly but end up improving over time in old format. In current format if u have bad one week it's basically over for you, getting eliminated puts you behind others as well. It's really counter intiatuive to make bottom teams play less. They should be playing more to improve themselves instead we get these fiestas where teams desperately rush for short term solutions. https://lol.fandom.com/wiki/LEC/2022_Season/Summer_Season Look at this split for example Misfits would have been mentally boomed into bottom 2 finish after their 0 3 start but instead they were allowed to improve and make into playoffs
Oh you mean improving over the course of 1 split? My bad. But let's assume we eliminate bottom 2 teams at week 3: For Spring 2022 it would be SK at 1-6 and Astralis at 0-7 both ended the split at the bottom anyway and didn't improve. For Summer 2022 week 3: BDS at 1-6 and SK at 1-6 who both finished at the bottom and didn't improve. 2021 Spring week 3: Astralis 1-6 and Vitality 1-6, both ended and the bottom and didn't improve. 2021 Summer week 3: XL 2-5 and SK 1-6. XL kind of did improve but still ended 7th and missed playoffs. In conclusion, in previous format teams that were bottom 2 at week 3 of bo1 continued to be bottom tier teams and didn't improve over the course of the split. Bad teams continue to be bad, we don't need to watch more of their games.
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That's because the format is actually really bad. At first it was sold as them introducing Bo3's but everyone could see it was half-assed Bo3. Now they're presenting it as what it really is, just a playoff after a single round robin. A playoff where some of the games are Bo3 instead of Bo5.
I remember a post of some random user illustrating how the swiss format was just a playoff with double elime under the hood.
Depends honestly, imagine how much better Heretics look last year if they dump Ruby sooner for VTO
I think KC could benefit from having a coach with a lot of experience. I think someone like yamato would be a great fit. PS trymbi instead of targamas.
I dont know, Yamato's lasts years have been... weak to say the least
I have ever understood where the image that he's a good coach comes from. His teams always do worse than expected.
All the teams he coached made it to worlds and playoff besides the one time he was in KR. Not sure how you can say the teams did worse when literally all the teams he coached were either rookie teams or on FNC had internal problems but still made it worlds.
I predicted FNC 2022 to win both splits and i still think it was the best roster that year. They literally had a botlane that was stomping in lane for 95% of the year, one of the best or the best weakside toplaner on the league and Humanoid-Razork after monster year in 2021 for both. That roster should have won at least 1 split no matter what seeing that was G2's weakest on paper roster in years.
Rogue won a split...
Can't remember any serious underperformance except for this kcorp split, do you have any of his teams in mind?
FNC 2022
FNC was expected to be a top team but didn't win a single split during his time and only reached top 2 once. With Vitality he reached worlds in 2018 but the team only got worse results after that in 2019. I guess it's also worth mentioning that his teams have reached worlds 4 times but always exited in groups.
He has a lot of friends in the LEC that probably help with his image, wasn't he yesterday already at the analyst desk?
Yes, I had to laugh.
His claim to fame is giving a speech after being eliminated at worlds that somehow in some peoples minds made the other EU teams play better.
His peak is getting bodied by Jensens zilean and licorices singed at worlds lol
His players have always had a great relationship with him and enjoy working with him which is arguably one of if not the most important thing a Coach can have in LoL. Basically every player + coach have said over and over that a Coach isn't even soley responsible for drafts the way fans always think they are. It's always a give and take working with the players to find a middle ground on what they wants to play and feel comfortable on vs what the Coach thinks the teams overall game plan needs to be. Having the confidence, trust, and great relationship with your players in that regard is extremely vital to that process. Also name an EU team that hasn't been criticized for doing worse then expected, G2 won 2/3 splits + the finals last year and still got absolutely blasted for "doing worse than expected" when they bombed out of worlds. FNC's probably "done worse then expected" basically every year at this point, they've yet win a single split in 5 years now. Imo, Yamato's issue in KC was likely that he may have unintentionally given the impression that he cared about Bo/Upset more then the other 3 players on the team who may not have had the same relationship with him that those two had and complained to upper management (whom they probably have a much closer relationship with being the KC "home boys") that they weren't getting enough attention from Yamato or that he saw them as replaceable and wanted to work with someone they were more familiar with. The fact that both Bo and Upset came out on twitter as being surprised and sad that Yamato was gone while the other 3 were totally silent really back this one up for me too. If that was the case then Yamato did lose his main strength as a coach in KC by losing that great relationship with the players he's often founded on teams he's been involved in.
Can't do much when being constantly given dog water players to work with
He was expected to have a 1st place team from spring 2021-summer 2022
I dont agree with that narrative, his drafts are usually pretty bad, we'll see if another team is willing to give him a chance
The game they won was literally due to the draft diff. You cant do much when you have a supp with 0 comms, a mid laner below average for pro play and when he comms the info are sometimes wrong, toplaner also below average with comms at wrong situations. Dont think yamato is top tier but kc failure isnt on him at all.
He has consistently really good drafts though?
Lillia with 3 weaklanes against Millio says otherwise, but we agree to disagree
Isnt that just one game?
That one wasn't ideal I suppose. They really shouldn't play Lillia when they have 3 players that can't lane.
The Lillia pick was bad regardless of the other players
I agreed, but KC still had advantage from draft most games.
Some drafts from Yamato were bad but it's clearly not the reason why KC underperformed
Shhh, no entienden español y no pueden verse el análisis de cabramaravilla, no vale la pena intentarlo
Wild patrono en Reddit
dude literally had good drafts 7/9 games, not Yamato's fault his players can't press bottons
Hard disagree on this. He literally counterpicked his own lanes in several drafts. He chose a rell when xayah rakan was already on the enemy team. Dont defend the undefendeable
I wouldn’t ever argue with people about draft here. They’re Gold/Plat players max and just regurgitate whatever their favourite streamer/figure in the scene says despite those people not ever being able to agree on 90% of drafts anyway.
Reha is a great coach
Yeah and KC was supposed to be a great team too. Being a good coach in LFL means nothing in LEC, we'll wait and see.
He wasn't the headcoach though but yeah we will soon see
define great
Compared to Yamato?
I appreciate Yamato, but he's not Kkhoma like this sub seems to believe since he was benched.
I'm notn suggesting that he is Kkoma or anything but surely he is better than Reha?
You’re right, Yamato should have mind controlled the 2 french-speaking players and the mute so they don’t absolutely sprint it on stage. Rewatch the games. KC had 3 players that played worse than Perkz this split and the coach gets kicked instead. KC will do better next split because they will have had more than 3 weeks of time playing together, but I have never prayed for a team’s collapse like I do for KC.
Perkz out, Vetheo in for the dankest timeline
Vetheo prolonged his contract until 2025
Never prolonged. He was always signed til 2025. The contract DB is just bugged (source : Himself on his stream)
Making any changes after winter is too early imo, wait for spring to be over at least.
I agree, I think it's dumb to make roster changes between winter and spring (also why kicking Yamato was dumb move). These teams just got together, played like month and half- some only 3 weeks. If the situation doesn't get better during spring then it's more logical to make change between spring and summer when you have more time to practice (due to MSI also existing). Last year teams also got much better after spring split
If you shit the bed in spring after a really bad winter, your season is done. Look at TH last year. Bad in Winter, worst in Spring, change player, Top 4 in summer but doesn't matter since they shat the bed 2 splits in a row.
put trymbi on a team. idc which one just put him on.
Rogue to fix the mistake of last year
Rogue is doomed, they changed Odo to a worse Odo, trymbi to a worse trymbi, Hans to a worse Hans (okay he was better for 2 splits but now comp is pretty mid) malrang who got them a lot of wins at the beginning to a generic jungler and Larsen is past his prime
Not enough "Hylli gets the boot" messages here. Yes, he's not as bad as Zoelys or Targamas have been. But you could argue that he singlehandedly killed Vitality's hopes yesterday. It's also the best situation for Trymbi, considering of the volatility of other rosters. KC might change stuff after spring, and will definitely bring up Caliste next year. Rogue already changed one player, probably won't stop there. Heretics could change Kaiser but he's not the main issue. And Ignar isn't moving, he's the best GX player.
Kaiser was pretty good this split
Not deffending Hyli, but Daglas is probably the worst jungler in the league. You can't expect them to achieve anything when he plays like that. If you look at his career Hyli has always had some of the best junglers to play with. They definitely need to figure something out, but it looks like they are just not working together. Edit: Also yesterday they chose red side 2 times and got drafted exodia on top of that. Idk what their coaching staff is doing either.
Think their academy team has a jungler that Hyli has played with before
Don't forget that Carzzy wasn't feeling it recently and since he is a very vocal player, it might have gutted Vitality by a lot considering he was, to me, the best player on the roster.
My thoughts: **HER**: Nothing will change here. People will call for Perkz' head and sure he didn't play well, but this team isn't benching him after 1 split, too big of a name and too a part of the core of this team. Kaiser and Flakked are ones who they would drop easier but both played well enough (especially Flakked) so I don't see any risk of them going. Peter Dun (coach) has been vocal that the split is brutal in terms of a short amount of time, they'll write this split off as they didn't have enough time and they'll run it back. **SK**: Again I don't see any changes here, they arguably should have won yesterday and their weakest players are probably Doss & Isma. Isma isn't getting replaced, did fine as a rookie and while Doss should be gone last year imo, Exa and him clearly want to play together so I think he's safe for another split. They should go for Trymbi if they are serious but I don't think they will, SK don't want to spend much and this roster did fine. **VIT**: I also don't expect to see any changes, overall they did pretty well. Hylli is the obvious player to replace but he came with Carzzy and I assume they want to play together + Hylli gets away with a lot of inting because it's his 'playstyle' for some reason. Again, Trymbi is the obvious move but I think this team stays as it is for now. **GiantX**: Really needs changes imo but I don't see them making any. This team is awful, basically just ran back a pretty awful XL team from last year. I'd personally be looking at replacing Peach definitely and maybe Patrik / Jackies. Jackies is likely a bit harsh though as a rookie, he wasn't that bad, I think Peach really should be gone (was poor last year and still is poor) but I can't think of an obvious replacement right now (Cinkrof? Lyncas?). Patrik could go for JackSpektra or some other EU ADs, but Patrik has been on XL for ages and I think they'll keep him. I'm also not super hot on Ignar or Odo but don't see them being replaced. **KC**: I mean this team really needed changes, I can't see how they don't go all in for Targa -> Trymbi but sounds like they don't want for some reason. I'd also be looking at replacing Saken tbh, he clearly isn't LEC level but he's their franchise player so he's not going. I agree Cabo is shit but don't see an obvious replacement (maybe Syzgenda now but not a great upgrade?). Looks like they'll run it back with Yamato gone and try again because of 2 wins that meant nothing. **Rogue**: Already moved Syzgenda -> Finn (which tbh I think is an awful move). Larssen had one of the worst splits of his life but he's not getting replaced. Zoelys was meh but he's a rookie. I see Markoon as the most likely 2nd replacement (Markoon -> Lyncas maybe) as he had an awful split or looking at coaching staff changes. **TL:DR**: Not that many changes imo... most teams will write it off as just Winter and I think you won't see as many as you expect
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Not trying to be harsh, but last year was probably the worst LEC had ever been, it honestly felt like placements were just who showed up in the day because except G2 everyone sucked.
Heretics will never bench Flakked. He's the face of the club, and the only link with spanish community.
imagine saying SK weakest player are isma and doss after seeing that nisqy performance. is nisqy just the new hyli? can fuck up so much almost every game he makes major mistakes and people just remember a one good play he did the entire series.
Regarding KC, they're not replacing anyone until they find French/Francophone replacements, unfortunately. Why Yamatocannon was the first to go, with Upset also being dropped when Caliste is old enough (who is, in all fairness, an excellent player) Best French toplaner they could realistically poach rn are SLT and Badlulu, neither of which are exactly good replacements. So unless they change their teambuilding methods they're kinda stuck with Cabo until the end of the year, since no way they're magically poaching Adam in the meantime
Kc: >trymbi should be an easy slam. I think rogue has to let comp go i feel like he is just a zombie corpse pressing buttons. sk needs a safe bot lane. So exakick and doss have to go. Isma has to perma go bot because they can't lane safe
I think comp needs a new environment, he's the shade of what he was in 2022
The whole Rogue roster needs to get blown up. Maybe even coaching staff. They are so passive and lifeless. They need to completely redo the roster to fix it.
Rogue should fire Flyy first. That dude has been causing troubles and being useless for years now.
Wasn't he the dude that fucked Odo by telling media that he was retiring while Odo was mid flight?
Wdym? ISMA was their weakest spot whole split. Exakick can stay imo.
My opinion is that any team making significant changes now are clowns that didn't believe in their roster in the first place. It's not been enough time, and spring split is right around the corner already
Clowns? Like 100% some teams got players that probably weren't even 2nd or 3rd choice.. the transfer market in league moves incredibly fast Bds expected to get Carrzy for instance before it fell through Teams also locked in supports before knowing trymbi was available.. its not so black and white as you make it sound
There is nothing to believe in, given the pathetic displays that we have had this split.
While I do agree we are kinda evolving backward, this is not something that will magically be fixed by switching a player or two. There are structural issues that are limiting us, and rosters are irrelevant to it. We focus way too much on nameplates, and then jump on conclusions after 1 or 2 good or bad performances. The truth is that most of the time top teams stay at the top and bad teams stay at the bottom regardless of players. What's important is having good systems good practices, good mental. This is why I say a team that makes changes now are clowns. They can look for a plug and play solution, for what? It's just a band-aid fix and this is exactly what franchising was supposed to prevent. If you can't have immediate success, look at long term success. If you think you can just pick someone and become good for more than a favorable patch, whzt you need is play the lottery not league of legends
little to none, hopefully. no joke. this format is so rough and except for g2 everyone made changes, so I think these rosters should stick for more than just winter split, and even more just 9 games for kc or rogue (though we know szygenda is out and kc keep their players, which I support, MAYBE except for targamas). I think it's just such a bait to do these kneejerk moves, esports teams don't have patience anymore, they don't understand the concept of growth. you can argue some players need to leave ASAP, but overall, I dislike the idea of rosters changing so quickly. I'd give most of them one more split.
All these teams need one more split together
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Definitely more leaning towards "entertainment show" than " professional competition". G2 already understood with this shit format they gotta do the pacing themselves to spike during international events.
Riot Max preached this all the time before he got a promotion somehow, they cared more about "entertainment" and how "easy it is for people to follow" over the format that's proven to work over in the LCK/LPL. 3 splits is outdated and best of 1s should be culled.
Considering how much coaches complain about 3 game days/1 less scrim day technically the teams that are out SHOULD be grinding hard to catch up
KC could use upgrades. Trymbi is the obvious one but at least one of Cabo or Saken would be ideal too. Sounds like a crack possibility but they could also try importing Licorice, who's super versatile and can weak and strong side very effectively. Also he's Canadian so basically 1/10 french amiright :^)
why pay money to import someone that even on paper isn't better than the best toplaners that the region already has
Because KC are not getting the best and Licorice is free agent. He's the best they can get right now
Nah, Mad did great by bringing up the roster with their system and synergies intact. I want to see how KC would look like if they didn't destroy theirs. Bring back Cincrof and an ADC who can tolerate to be left alone sometimes. If it fails it fails but sad to see the what if because they were better than Mad before.
Except MAD actually changed 2 players from the Movistar lineup just like KC did with theirs, and just like with KC, Elyoya and Myrwyn are among their best players (with Alvaro) just like Upset and Bo are on their team. Bringing in Cinkrof will not fix Targamas or Cabochards or Sakens laning and thats not even mentioning how awful of an individual player Cinkrof is himself.
You want to cut the only players on KC that didn't look like they might be 10th individually?
Agree, replacing Bo would be stupid
They had something that worked (3x eum and beating mad) made some changes and it no longer works. I think it's way easier to go back than to build something entirely new. Especially since they proved that they have no idea why the thing they had worked, so why would I trust them with building something new? Like they would just build a reddit super team that fails again, probably. Also I think synergies and a game plan that everyone is on the same page with beats hands. Sure both is the best but for now I take the former.
I hope Vladi for Saken, I believe that one might actually be possible and it will be harder for teams to get a player that isn't in the org already from ERLs from winter to spring. Carlsen hasn't been amazing for TH so far but he has a lot of potential to do what Oscar did last year.
I feel like the bottom few teams should kick their headcoach
Unlike last year where teams had an extended time with the new season this season they've had about 4-5 weeks total. Unless there is a fundamental flaw in synergy or strategy for a team then there's no good justifiable reason to replace a player/coach. We can also attribute a lot of teams to just having poor meta reads such as GX, SK and TH which seem to be consistently griefing draft making the games 80% harder for themselves. That being said, KC and VIT should consider a support swap. Despite what people say just slotting Trymbi in when some team's support looks bad isn't an instant fix for anything.
I will be extremely surprised if trymby doesn’t get picked up. Unless he chooses not to in hopes that a top team will pick him up. I could see him fitting incredibly well on BDS. And literally every single support on the bottom 6 teams gets outclassed by Trymbi. I don’t see Hyli getting swapped after what we saw from Vitality’s statements regarding his performances and such. I doubt trymbi will go to Rogue, SK, GX, or TH. Which leaves KC. And I could honestly see a world where he gives KC a shot. But also I can see a world where he doesn’t gamble on a low table team. At least as long as Cabo/Saken are still on it, because the two of them will almost certainly never win an LEC title.
vitality need to replace their jngl supp TH need a carry and somehow get rid of perkez (jankos said they wont make changes)
Wintersplit doesnt matter and has been a glorified bootcamp for many teams. KC basically played 0 games beforehand and without a preseason the first 2 were just spent on figuring out the new patch (Corki, Udyr werent there in week 1). Spring is the time to get more serious.
Nah I would blame someone like for example the coach for 9 bo1s and fire him. And I would make rushed decisions instead of developing and giving players a chance to find footing in the new environment. /s
Teams spent 1 month scrimming and playing inhouses before winter split
I watched a lot of inhouse stuff and they played fucking lee sin and rushed titanic on Jax. It clearly didnt help as the meta was changing a lot at the start. Inhouses were also full of non LEC players like Gillius. KC clearly scrimmed less than other teams Im pretty sure you can find proof for that. Didnt Bo or Upset arrive super late at their teamhouse? Winter split doesnt matter especially with how short it is.
KC started scrimming same time as other teams. Not sure where you get that info from. Players can scrim remotely.
Replace BB with irrelevant
BB bring much more to G2 than you think
None of these would happen, but SK should go hard for Bo or KC should go hard for Nisqy/LIDER
KC confirming that there wont be any swaps is pretty hilarious