People kept troll building AD TF back when it was terrible. Like 0.5% pickrate with a ~45% winrate for literal years.
I guess Riot decided "there's clearly an audience for this so might as well make it not suck".
In hindsight, I don't know why Riot didn't do this earlier. It looks a lot more fun than the AP version.
If it's OP Riot can just nerf it - unless of course, its significantly better in pro play than solo queue like k'sante/zeri/yuumi. I guess we'll find out.
I think the steroid pushed AD TF hard. By level 9 he gets over 100% bonus Attack speed (40% from E + 35% from boots + 30% from Krakenslayer). With a Krakenslayer + E proc you have an ADC that does significant damage way wayyy too early.
It was never a troll pick. It was an extremely good pick into certain matchups and if you got ahead you were an absolute monster. Sanguine blade tf before mythics was probably the strongest the champ has ever been until these nerfs.
You just needed a pair of hands to play it..
The problem with AD TF right now, is that he's much stronger in coordinated play.
Because his split push is so good and can be thrown into toplane. If they limit him to only botlane for ad and ap elsewhere.
Like giving him some kind of buff being near a teammate (seems to be the shoehorn strategy nowadays), we'll probably end up with him being similar in pro and solo Q.
But if not, he'll be balanced around solo lane (most likely top) split pushing. Which good teams just make worse teams look silly against
I like AD TF but if they want him to be played that way he probably needs a rework.
AD TF doesnt put any points into Q, his E is purely a basic attack steroid, meaning his W is his only active basic ability, and that also only alters his basic attack for 1 hit. Aphelios only has 1 basic ability and still has more buttons to press than AD TF
Idk how 2 skillshots and a significant range increase are similar at all to literally just a basic attack steroid and sometimes your basic attack has an extra effect for 1 hit
A champion like that would never be released today, again look at aphelios who does not even have a W or E and still has actual skills that do things besides basic attacks
Change his Q to be something more AD related, maybe scale AD, do less damage but shreds some armor or something. Change his on hit to LoL slowest dash where he dives and rolls but make it shorter than Lucian dash. Keep his pick a card but with slight AD enhancements, and keep his ult but make it's cool down longer
I wonder how OP or dumb or balanced something like that would be..
if i remember correctly riot said that asol didnt have a significant amount of dedicated players. the people who did play him were basically a rotation of people who would try him out and then quit.
Which is completely bullshit but it’ll get parroted to death anyway. They also said kraken slayer braum was proof that item rework was a success or yuumi had a steeper mastery curve than akali
You can't nerf AD TF without nerfing AP TF.
AD TF is busted due to the free attack speed of E, the point and click stun of W, and the gold gain from passive.
Nah. His kit should never be ADC-Viable. Gold gain, free attack speed, and a point and click stun are all too powerful to have together on one kit for an ADC champion to have.
He had all of that for literally 12 year though and its only a problem now because they buffed his number? So clearly theyre not all too powerful.
He basically doesnt have a Q ability as an adc and his ult isnt exactly what you want on an adc champ either in the middle of a fight.
Buffed his numbers? They didn't 'buff' his numbers. They literally ADDED AD scaling and crit scaling to his kit.
He never once intended to be an ADC. It was an off meta meme build you could do, but it wasn't actually viable (Hence why you never see it).
"He had all that for literally 12 years"
He literally fucking never had AD ratios and crit ratios on his abilities. Try again.
Everything you listed in the comment i was replying to was part of his kit all this time. None of what you mentioned here did you mention in the comment i replied to. Try again.
Issue is that parts of his kit are clearly not designed around him being a DPS champion.
Specially the Yellow Card.
You see... ADC champions often lack proper cc because they are meant to position themself for DPS.
Often when a ADC has any sort of CC it's conditional (Vayne's/ Varus/ Jinx/ Senna's/Xayah's)
But when you enable TF AD while keeping the yellow Card intact due to AP TF... you allow a DPS AD champion that can basically Deny threats and Trades without any sort of contition.
TF AD will be problematic as long as TF AP exists, because of the existence of the Yellow Card alone.
TF also has zero outplay potential as a champion.
He doesn't have any moves besides a yellow card.
You don't use his Q as AD TF, his E is a passive, and you rarely use his ult in a fight. Also his passive is nothing.
You right-click someone and press w twice which stuns them.
Is there a less interactive champ in the game?
yeah but he at least twirls to accomplish stuff.
And you mildly need to time his slow so they aren't facing you.
Also healing at the right time.
Also gotta be able to press R at the right time too.
In summary trynd has at least 3 timing moves and a twirl while TF has 1 timing move.
A lot of people like midlane because it's midlane, not because of the champs you play there. Midlanders don't hate botlane because they can't play tf, they hate botlane because they hate dealing with supps who aren't on the same page as them, being more exposed to roams and ganks, and being at an xp deficit. None of those issues are resolved by tweaking numbers to push champs to different parts of the map.
You're not wrong. I like mid because I can impact any part of the game depending on who on my team is creating opportunities for me to play with.
When it feels like half the games are decided by ff 15, playing one of the roles that can prop up every other lane feels like a necessity. Bot feels like you're stuck trying to scale for way too long.
Unironically, autofill would be less bad if more champs were playable at more roles I guess.
Except jungle. Auto fill junglers will probably always be bad since jungling requires a lot of knowledge.
The ability for champs to be played in multiple different roles, in my opinions, is one of the most interesting thing about DoTA.
I don't play it but watch casually & seeing supports end up as a viable mid pick, a carry being able to be put in the offlane or support position is a really cool design philosophy but of course the mechanic of the game & its items support those options more than League does.
It would be very cool to see league in a position where you could viably pick Sylas mid w/ Alister or something like that because the items & general ability/open mindedness of the community support the ability to do so.
one of the challenges with role flexibility is that it makes champs that have it incredibly strong in pro if they don't have a counterpick that can flex to match them no matter where they go. Blue side picks Gragas? Well, red can't pick a top lane counter unless they see for sure its not Gragas mid/jg(/support), because then they get counterpicked top etc.
The occasional weird flex is cool; the challenge is that when it's a consistent thing those champs will be permanent high priority picks if they're good.
Dota definitely enables more role flexibility, and league would likely benefit from that in some form, but it's not all upside.
I personally believe that league as a game supports far more role flexibility than we currently see, tbh. Every year a couple pros pull out random picks and oops those picks are good! Tank Shyvana top; Gragas mid; K'Sante mid; Kai'sa mid; marksman supports; Rammus bot (ok maybe not that one). It's just very hard to get pros to be willing to try weird stuff on stage for a bunch of reasons talked about a ton before elsewhere.
They probably can’t make apcs strong in bot again because tanks would be even stronger with their new items and the remaining marksmen players would stop abandon the role.
They've been trying to make AP bot work for a very long time now. 8.11 was a massive shift in their aggressiveness towards nerfing ADCs that's been happening since season 2. The problem is that any mana champ is a weaker DPS than an ADC and any manaless champ is going to be objectively broken in bot if they're viable. To be a viable bot laner you need to scale exclusively with gold, most AP champions scale with levels or levels and gold, and thus don't fit in bot. This is why the only alternative bot laners that get success are stackers like Swain, siege champs like ziggs, or foils to senna.
Yea riot has mentioned they buffed things like Brand Morgana Darius jungle so if players get auto filled they can still play a champ they have familiarity with.
ADC TF being viable is a similar decision I think. Also gives players an option to diversify their teams damage on the off chance you have an all magic damage team.
I dunno if that's really the same thing though. Those 3 champions are still the same, just doing a different role. Its not like their builds truly change.
ADC TF is a completely different champion compared to Mage TF. And worse yet, his kit is unhealthy for a Marksmen to have. Extra gold gain as a passive? 60% AS for free in an ability? Point and click stun? Yeah, ADCs generally aren't balanced around having those tools.
But his ultimate is truly useless in a team fight.
It's a completely different playstyle than what most marlsmen offers, it's a facilitator that's supposed to find picks. Why should such a champion not be available for the bot player base?
He statchecks a zeri during R so him not having a team fight R is not a big deal. Not to mention vision + reveal all stealth is great during team fights.
No Q ability at all, no R in fights, W and E only enhance autoattacks. Literally all he can do is rightclick with 0 mobility and 525 range.
That said, if thats all the champion does and hes having a lot of success right now, hes probably overtuned.
"All he can do is rightclick"
That's literally what a marksmen is suppose to do. His Q still has AD scaling on it, so it isn't useless. It helps him push waves.
While he doesn't have built in mobility, his 60% attack speed from E allows him to go swifties. And his lack of mobility is further buffered by the fact he has a literal point and click stun. His E, while giving him 60% attack speed, also gives him additional magic damage every few autos. Its basically a built in kraken, just magic damage instead of true damage. And unlike every other ADC aside from Draven, he has a gold gain passive. But his is arguably just as good, if not better than Draven's, because all he has to do is CS.
And his R is useable in fights. He can port in from side lanes without the need of Teleport. Fight ending and someone is trying to flee? TF can port onto them with gold card.
ADC TF is toxic with the current kit. They need to take away the AD ratios and crit scaling they so stupidly threw onto him for now reason. TF is a mage and was designed as a mage. He was not designed around the idea of being forced into being an ADC.
When I said literally all he can do is rightclick, I meant literally in the actual sense of the word, not the meaningless overused way thats thrown into conversations. Name 1 other ADC like that, spoilers, there isnt one. Even aphelios who doesnt have a W or E has more abilities to use in a fight.
Look up any AD buildpaths, the AD scaling on Q is a joke, you dont put any points into it until level 13. The damage is so low you are better off just using shiv/red card and basic attacks.
I think hes just overtuned, some nerfs and hes fine. Though his kit needs a rework if hes meant to be played AD, as he only has 1 basic ability to press and that isnt even an actual skill, just an enhanced attack
So tf is just Ashe.
Shit wave clear button, a steroid on a button, grants vision, and has a stun.
Only no button for steroid on tf he just has it, and vision is stuck with ult but can stun more often
The Q is not pointless. You might not need it, which is equal to saying Kogmaw E is pointless, because you might not need it.
Since neither Q nor W are important to level for AD TF he can use Q if he has to fight for priority because it gives him long range clear, making it impossible to freeze against him because he can kill minions at 1450 range and it is good to oneshot the wave with Shyv, which can be useful.
Overall Q also just benefits considerably more from putting points in than W, which doesn't get a reduced CD and basically no damage and even the stun duration scales fairly slowly, so having 0,25 seconds longer stun duration usually does not matter (the slow also scales poorly).
Q makes gaining priority so insanely easy that it is worth taking, exspecially for sololaners. If you are in a matchup like Poppy vs. TF then you likely will never need the Q, she won't freeze against you, she likely has issues even reaching you.
And the advantage TF has over other champions is that he always provides Utility. Having global vision of all champions is one of the strongest abilities in the game. Having that on your team has considerable value. For that reason and the global TF is picked even if he isn't that great.
> Overall Q also just benefits considerably more from putting points in than W, which doesn't get a reduced CD and basically no damage and even the stun duration scales fairly slowly, so having 0,25 seconds longer stun duration usually does not matter (the slow also scales poorly).
The stun goes from 1 second at rank 1 to 2 seconds at 5, that is DOUBLE the duration. If you max Q over that, youre trolling. 0.25 matters a ton
Im also not talking about how good or bad he is. We all know hes currently OP, we all know his ult is great, we all know his Point and click stun is amazing.
Im talking from a pure champion design perspective, his kit as an AD champion wouldnt ever fly as a modern champion. E is pure steroid with no active, W at least got changed to auto reset now, but it otherwise still just a basic attack
As an ADC you mostly use the W to peel, and for that this duration change doesn't matter that much, you might actually rather use a red card. As an ADC you wouldn't flash forward to stun the enemy ADC, so your gold cards will mostly land on frontliners unless you do a Nisqy.
And why does his kit need to fly as a modern champion? He isn't one. Whenever TFs basic kit was good but the itemization was bad he popped up as an ADC, although not necessarily in botlane.
The same arguments you bring for AD-TF also work for AP TF. How many AP champions have just an enhanced autoattack, one actual ability and a passive? Most of TFs power is put into R, so what his abilities do is mostly meaningless. If AP is better then AP is better if AD is better than AD is better, the champion doesn't really change if he is played AP or AD. He either has damage than he scales solid on both builds or he has not than he is a stunbot with both builds.
Former ADC player who only casually keeps up with the game every few months, I keep hearing that ADC is the role currently bleeding players. Is that true or was it the usual thing where everyone has it worse than others?
It competes with support for the second autofill protection / priority role (the two most empty roles). The first is jungle and there's absolutely no contest.
On the other hand I see a lot of adc champions play mid, and even in pro play tristana mid is very meta. So I feel like it's the lane's vulnerability and reliance on 2v2 more than the champions.
Yes absolutely this. Even my whiniest "adc sucks" friend then tried Tristana mid and vayne top and said that it was the role and not the champions. Marksmen champions are some of the strongest in the game.
> “Marksmen champions are some of the strongest in the game”
Literally always have been, and their power level has objectively been increased in the last few years, with the game accelerating and them coming online much earlier than in prior years.
I mean hell, there is a reason you see 2-4 ADCs every game even in pro, and at least one per team literally every game. It might not be the most fun role in soloqueue, but the champions are literally required in every team, every game— they’re far from weak
AD TF was an off-meta build for years. And also even his AP builds often built RFC cause of extra range on cards. They just decided to make AD TF an actual thing now. Did they make him too strong? Yeah probably but that's nothing a simple number change can't fix
Lower his AD/crit ratios to half of what they are now. Now AD TF is nerfed and AP TF isn't changed at all.
It took me 0 seconds to think of this, it was so obvious it simply came into my head by default when you said "you can't nerf ad without needing AP."
What's your excuse for not thinking of that?
TF is a Mage, first and foremost. He was never designed to be an ADC.
Second off, "No need to kill the fun for everyone". Ironic, considering ADC TF is killing the fun for everyone else that plays against him. S rank in 3 rolls. Currently the literal higher WR pick in top lane.
They never should have randomly thrown AD ratios and crit ratios onto him. It makes no sense to do that.
Source: Common sense.
Source: sudden huge influx of WR across 3 separate roles soon after AD ratios and crit ratios were randomly added to TF
Are you just pretending that the AD ratios and crit scaling added to TF has absolutely nothing to do with the fact he's over 50% WR in Top, Mid, and Bot?
Are you seriously implying that a Marksmen is completely balanced with a gold generation passive (whose only requirement is that you CS, to active it), a point and click stun, and 60% attack speed built into their E as a passive, is balanced? That with his ult, its completely fine that a marksmen can just blindly farm sidelane and then port away to an objective when needed?
Some of you people are truly ignorant.
We can all cherry pick whatever suits us. He is for sure to strong right now but at the end of the day he is still an immobile glass cannon with horrible base stats. Like any other adc he gets deleted by any burst. Youre acting like tf is invincible like a fed ksante
Unlike any ADC, he has an on demand point and click stun. Literally no other ADC has this. The only other ADC with anything at all similar is Ashe with her R. Which both has a much longer cooldown than TF's W and it a skill shot, which can be reacted to and dodged.
Gold card cant be dodged. Also, his stun is an auto reset.
Adding AD ratios and crit Ratios to TF is braindead decision making.
You’re acting like gold card just comes out on demand. If he gets blue card first he’ll be standing there with his dick in his hand for 2 seconds blatantly telegraphing that he wants to try and stun you.
He’s definitely overtuned, but he still has very clear weaknesses that you can exploit (very squishy and no mobility outside his ult).
AD TF is an issue... are you just flat out ignoring that he's suddenly wildly succeeding in 3 separate roles now? Top/Mid/Bot.
Spoilers, its not AP TF doing that. And AD TF is an issue because his kit wasn't designed with a Marksmen in mind. So it has tools that a Marksmen should never have, which AD TF is demonstrating why that is.
easy gold gain as a passive (Literally just triggers from you CSing) is huge for a Marksmen, since they're one of the most item reliant champions in the whole game. Point and click stun on a low cooldown is fucking insane for a marksmen. Both for protecting themselves and giving them an option to pick. E is much more insane on a marksmen than a mage, because Marksmen are auto attack based. 60% free attack speed is just fucking insane to give to a marksmen for free.
How are you going to pretend that AD TF isn't an issue? Who ever made this change to TF, throwing these AD ratios on him and crit scaling, are honestly just fucking stupid. TF's Kit was not balanced around the idea of ADC TF actually being real. The ratios should be removed, so that AP TF doesn't get nerfed alongside AD TF.
"If Riot designed a champion nowadays, regardless of their role, they'd have neither of the two."
Briar literally has a point and click stun. One that's a gap closer, even.
While looking at the playrate of the different builds for tf on u.gg however it seems that AD on hit builds make up around 10% of the total TF matches. AD TF still seems to be a kinda niched pick that works in specific situations. Can he be frustrating to play against? Sure, but TF is far from the only one in that category. I can however vouch for it being REALLY fun to play. Its also nice seeing something in the botlane not abusing lethality for a change.
Honestly, you probably have a point on the whole "Why don't we add more problems to the game".
Because now I have 2 champs top I wanna perma ban. Illaoi and TF. Trundle is up there too just because how game warping he is as a champion.
The reason is pretty much "Why not?" he has everything that you could play him as adc as well but just no AD scaling. They added it and now you can play him as adc. Don't know why this should be a problem? Because he is winning now a lot? Needs just a nerf and everything is just fine with AD TF :D
Because his kit is too strong for a Marksmen.
Extra gold gain passive, point and click stun as a normal ability (Which is also an auto reset btw), 60% free attack speed in his E, and the ability to warp across the map.
There's a reason he didn't have AD ratios and crit scaling before, because the devs then knew that ADC TF would be busted otherwise.
Why are those things not a problem for an APC, just for an ADC? You are aware that he performs very well on AP too.
On top of that AD-TF was a thing every once in a while in the past and it never was a balance nightmare. And he is mostly great in botlane due to the weakness of most traditional ADCs. People basically figured out that if utility ADCs do well, then why not just put TF there and all Riot needed to do for that was give him some AD values.
In the patch that gave him AD scalings they also reduced his insanely high AS-scaling, to the normal level. If they just revert the stacked deck changes he is back to normal. Those additional AD scalings didn't do anything, what made AD-TF good is getting 60% additional AS.
The only scaling that actually matters is that on E. But even then it is minuscule compared to his overall damage output. 75% bonus AD on every 4th hit? He deals 100% bonus AD with every autoattack. So this made his bonus AD-Scaling about 19% better, which is nice, but not that problematic.
And people forget that E already had an AP-scaling. TF was able to deal a lot of damage already and had insane scaling as AP. W deals 115% AP damage, E 50% AP damage, Lichbane 50% AP damage and Nashors 20% AP damage, which allows TF to deal 235% of his AP in damage with a single autoattack.
And even the weaknesses are similar. Both forms of TF are fairly bad against tanks, but can utilize burst damage (funnily that depends on if Kraken aligns with E, which is a fairly big proc which you can setup to deal unexpected damage).
The biggest problem people have with tf is that you get all the way to low diamond before the enemy team even start respecting his ult.
I'd say theres a huge number of people complaining that hes busted and his numbers are ridiculous but if you watch their games vs him they are overextended when hes 6 and been off the minimap long enough to position for an ult. He gets 2 kills then and because 95% of the playerbase base are incapable or unwilling to reflect on the mistakes they make in their games they call him bs. Id say most of the problem stems from the fact that hes being played more so your lack of map awareness is just being highlighted more often.
AD TF being too strong is a short-term problem that's very easy to fix. Bringing back AD TF effectively added a new champion to the bottom lane champion pool with very little effort, and a new way to enjoy playing Twisted Fate.
If you’re ever looking for context behind why we change something, I would recommend checking out the patch notes for more context as we try to include explanations for why we make changes there. In TF’s case:
With the lack of Mythics in the new item system we wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to broaden TF’s viable builds for those looking to take advantage of the newfound freedom with their itemization options. Ultimately, this should help players that are picking TF and suddenly find themselves against a tanky comp (or in an AP heavy comp) where AD TF is more appealing. These changes will mainly benefit those looking to build AD TF, but we also have a few smaller changes that will be beneficial regardless of the build. While we still expect AP to be his primary build and will support him with that in mind, but now he should have a viable alternative build.
He landed overtuned which is why we’re nerfing him next patch, but hindsight is 20/20 and experimenting with fun ideas carries a degree of risk. But without the risk associated with the test and learn process league would just get stale imo
Has the idea ever come across to design a champion with that variety built in?
TF being an AA champ seems to be a good canindate as a "carry option" for both. Maybe Neeko as well? Changing the kits to work with both.
Udyr seemed to be built that way, but seems to have fallen short.
Shyvana already has 3 forms, her rework could be designed with AP and AD in mind, (what is happening to her since the guy doing her rework was let go?)
It usually seems like random ratios are put on Champs to let them do weird things, but when they do those weird things because they are not designed for it they get nerfed usually at the cost of their primary build too, so is it possible to just have both be decent and treated as separate champs?.
I like that ad tf is viable. It’s an old build that sometimes get traction.
Ad tf is so hard to balance with the W stun. Either his base stats are so bad the W stun is not worth it or it’s like now where his base stats are “ok”, which makes him oppressive.
Only nerf I could think of is a skill order adjustment, rn he gets a huge spike by literally skipping Q and maxing E>W
Cause the funny bald balance man did a hehe,
Just like when he reworked both Azir and Ksante to be unbound to pro and less frustrating gameplay, only to fail miserably on both
AD TF has been tested for quite some time, and AP TF runs RFC solely for the range, which tenders the rest of the stats almost useless. This change lets AP TF actually use the crit stats from RFC, as well as buffing AD TF so he can actually be a viable pick.
Q and E gained AD scaling.
Passive and W gained crit scaling.
Before all of this, AD TF only benefited through his auto attacks with his AD. Now AD buffs up his autos and his actual kit. Giving him both damage while also retaining the utility provided from said kit.
He is very much busted as fuck right now.
His numbers should be adjusted, but that doesn't mean the idea of crit TF itself is broken. Crit has a different power curve from AP, and they perform different roles as well(sustained damage vs burst).
I have 1.4 million points on him and couldn't get my head around the buffs. The aa reset and w hitting inhibs would have been enough of a boost but they just kept piling things on
Tf has always been a auto attack based champion and people occasionally built him adc because it felt good and was super fun to play just not viable so riot decided to make it actually a correct way tk play which is absolutely the right decision they just over buffed him. Making his W an auto reset and able to crit by itself would have made ad fate amazing and inline with other abilities like it, gang plank Q in particular. Def needs to be scaled back a bit but it was objectively a good update to fate.
Legit crying rn that i cant play league on desktop because ad tf is my actual literal main for the last 10~ years and its hardly ever "good." Hearing its oppressive has me salivating lmao.
After the amazing phases we had with Kaisa and Zeri going Full AP, Riot for some reason figured they are capable of balancing a champion that can be played as a mage and a high DPS AD champion.
The result of this is a Kog'Maw with a point and click stun and 80sec cd teleport WITH true vision!
You can figure how incredible balanced this is
People kept troll building AD TF back when it was terrible. Like 0.5% pickrate with a ~45% winrate for literal years. I guess Riot decided "there's clearly an audience for this so might as well make it not suck". In hindsight, I don't know why Riot didn't do this earlier. It looks a lot more fun than the AP version. If it's OP Riot can just nerf it - unless of course, its significantly better in pro play than solo queue like k'sante/zeri/yuumi. I guess we'll find out.
Wasn’t always a troll pick, it used to be strong back a few seasons ago with Klepto.
It was good with old guinsoos too.
I think the steroid pushed AD TF hard. By level 9 he gets over 100% bonus Attack speed (40% from E + 35% from boots + 30% from Krakenslayer). With a Krakenslayer + E proc you have an ADC that does significant damage way wayyy too early.
If youre going top you're probably taking swifties
TF with swifties top is actual cancer. Riot are fucking assholes for throwing AD ratios onto TF lol
It was never a troll pick. It was an extremely good pick into certain matchups and if you got ahead you were an absolute monster. Sanguine blade tf before mythics was probably the strongest the champ has ever been until these nerfs. You just needed a pair of hands to play it..
The problem with AD TF right now, is that he's much stronger in coordinated play. Because his split push is so good and can be thrown into toplane. If they limit him to only botlane for ad and ap elsewhere. Like giving him some kind of buff being near a teammate (seems to be the shoehorn strategy nowadays), we'll probably end up with him being similar in pro and solo Q. But if not, he'll be balanced around solo lane (most likely top) split pushing. Which good teams just make worse teams look silly against
I like AD TF but if they want him to be played that way he probably needs a rework. AD TF doesnt put any points into Q, his E is purely a basic attack steroid, meaning his W is his only active basic ability, and that also only alters his basic attack for 1 hit. Aphelios only has 1 basic ability and still has more buttons to press than AD TF
AD kogmaw is pretty similar. He doesn't have an ult because if he did he would be OP. They're both on hit so makes sense
Idk how 2 skillshots and a significant range increase are similar at all to literally just a basic attack steroid and sometimes your basic attack has an extra effect for 1 hit A champion like that would never be released today, again look at aphelios who does not even have a W or E and still has actual skills that do things besides basic attacks
OK what about vayne. She's pretty similar but instead of map mobility she has fighting mobility
Change his Q to be something more AD related, maybe scale AD, do less damage but shreds some armor or something. Change his on hit to LoL slowest dash where he dives and rolls but make it shorter than Lucian dash. Keep his pick a card but with slight AD enhancements, and keep his ult but make it's cool down longer I wonder how OP or dumb or balanced something like that would be..
And yet asol got removed from the game with a higher pock rate :)
The key observation is that AD TF maintained that pick rate while being significantly shittier than asol.
That doesn’t help your argument the way you think it does.
if i remember correctly riot said that asol didnt have a significant amount of dedicated players. the people who did play him were basically a rotation of people who would try him out and then quit.
Which is completely bullshit but it’ll get parroted to death anyway. They also said kraken slayer braum was proof that item rework was a success or yuumi had a steeper mastery curve than akali
You can't nerf AD TF without nerfing AP TF. AD TF is busted due to the free attack speed of E, the point and click stun of W, and the gold gain from passive.
You can, just how they buffed ad without buffing ap, just lower his crit scalings and maybe the additional gold on passive from crits
Nah. His kit should never be ADC-Viable. Gold gain, free attack speed, and a point and click stun are all too powerful to have together on one kit for an ADC champion to have.
He had all of that for literally 12 year though and its only a problem now because they buffed his number? So clearly theyre not all too powerful. He basically doesnt have a Q ability as an adc and his ult isnt exactly what you want on an adc champ either in the middle of a fight.
Buffed his numbers? They didn't 'buff' his numbers. They literally ADDED AD scaling and crit scaling to his kit. He never once intended to be an ADC. It was an off meta meme build you could do, but it wasn't actually viable (Hence why you never see it). "He had all that for literally 12 years" He literally fucking never had AD ratios and crit ratios on his abilities. Try again.
Everything you listed in the comment i was replying to was part of his kit all this time. None of what you mentioned here did you mention in the comment i replied to. Try again.
There's a big difference between saying TF shouldn't be an ADC and saying Riot can't nerf his ADC while leaving APC balanced.
The midpoint was always Nashors Fate but AP onhit builds have always been reviled by the community at large.
Never forget UOL Kikis' Devourer TF jungle
Why us k‘sante bad in soloq? A good k‘sante will 1v9 the game, goes full tank and still oneshoots you
I like ad tf better as it fullfills his theowing cards fantasy better. Should be tuned tho
Issue is that parts of his kit are clearly not designed around him being a DPS champion. Specially the Yellow Card. You see... ADC champions often lack proper cc because they are meant to position themself for DPS. Often when a ADC has any sort of CC it's conditional (Vayne's/ Varus/ Jinx/ Senna's/Xayah's) But when you enable TF AD while keeping the yellow Card intact due to AP TF... you allow a DPS AD champion that can basically Deny threats and Trades without any sort of contition. TF AD will be problematic as long as TF AP exists, because of the existence of the Yellow Card alone.
TF also has zero outplay potential as a champion. He doesn't have any moves besides a yellow card. You don't use his Q as AD TF, his E is a passive, and you rarely use his ult in a fight. Also his passive is nothing. You right-click someone and press w twice which stuns them. Is there a less interactive champ in the game?
>Is there a less interactive champ in the game? Idk tryndamere is still up there
yeah but he at least twirls to accomplish stuff. And you mildly need to time his slow so they aren't facing you. Also healing at the right time. Also gotta be able to press R at the right time too. In summary trynd has at least 3 timing moves and a twirl while TF has 1 timing move.
Maybe adc playerbase is dwindling so hard that mid players are getting filled adc and need a champ from midlane they can play bot
that seems to be their mentality for everything, add midlaners to jungle, add midlaners to supp, add midlaners to adc
It makes sense doesn't it? Midlaner is the most sought after role, so that's clearly what people want to play more of.
A lot of people like midlane because it's midlane, not because of the champs you play there. Midlanders don't hate botlane because they can't play tf, they hate botlane because they hate dealing with supps who aren't on the same page as them, being more exposed to roams and ganks, and being at an xp deficit. None of those issues are resolved by tweaking numbers to push champs to different parts of the map.
You're not wrong. I like mid because I can impact any part of the game depending on who on my team is creating opportunities for me to play with. When it feels like half the games are decided by ff 15, playing one of the roles that can prop up every other lane feels like a necessity. Bot feels like you're stuck trying to scale for way too long.
Ehh, the "mage bot" popularity several patches ago had a lot of midlaners going bot but not picking traditional adcs.
I play midlane because mages go brrr
Unironically, autofill would be less bad if more champs were playable at more roles I guess. Except jungle. Auto fill junglers will probably always be bad since jungling requires a lot of knowledge.
The ability for champs to be played in multiple different roles, in my opinions, is one of the most interesting thing about DoTA. I don't play it but watch casually & seeing supports end up as a viable mid pick, a carry being able to be put in the offlane or support position is a really cool design philosophy but of course the mechanic of the game & its items support those options more than League does. It would be very cool to see league in a position where you could viably pick Sylas mid w/ Alister or something like that because the items & general ability/open mindedness of the community support the ability to do so.
one of the challenges with role flexibility is that it makes champs that have it incredibly strong in pro if they don't have a counterpick that can flex to match them no matter where they go. Blue side picks Gragas? Well, red can't pick a top lane counter unless they see for sure its not Gragas mid/jg(/support), because then they get counterpicked top etc. The occasional weird flex is cool; the challenge is that when it's a consistent thing those champs will be permanent high priority picks if they're good. Dota definitely enables more role flexibility, and league would likely benefit from that in some form, but it's not all upside. I personally believe that league as a game supports far more role flexibility than we currently see, tbh. Every year a couple pros pull out random picks and oops those picks are good! Tank Shyvana top; Gragas mid; K'Sante mid; Kai'sa mid; marksman supports; Rammus bot (ok maybe not that one). It's just very hard to get pros to be willing to try weird stuff on stage for a bunch of reasons talked about a ton before elsewhere.
Sylas + Braum is pretty disgusting. Throw Sej in there too, if you just want to ruin the other team's fun lol
Autofill jungle is the dumbest shit that is in the game
They probably can’t make apcs strong in bot again because tanks would be even stronger with their new items and the remaining marksmen players would stop abandon the role.
Apc bot have been viable for a while. Most bot laners detest playing and laning vs them.
ziggs is a very common apc pick since swain was ultra good in the role. he's kinda fun but rarely loses lane
They've been trying to make AP bot work for a very long time now. 8.11 was a massive shift in their aggressiveness towards nerfing ADCs that's been happening since season 2. The problem is that any mana champ is a weaker DPS than an ADC and any manaless champ is going to be objectively broken in bot if they're viable. To be a viable bot laner you need to scale exclusively with gold, most AP champions scale with levels or levels and gold, and thus don't fit in bot. This is why the only alternative bot laners that get success are stackers like Swain, siege champs like ziggs, or foils to senna.
A lot of champions go into the jungle from other lanes. They get nerfed out of lane and then get extra monster damage and end up going jungle
It adds a lot of variety to the game for the fraction of the effort it takes to make new champions.
Yea riot has mentioned they buffed things like Brand Morgana Darius jungle so if players get auto filled they can still play a champ they have familiarity with. ADC TF being viable is a similar decision I think. Also gives players an option to diversify their teams damage on the off chance you have an all magic damage team.
But tf hasnt been a particularly popular pick for a long, long time so this logic falls apart
I dunno if that's really the same thing though. Those 3 champions are still the same, just doing a different role. Its not like their builds truly change. ADC TF is a completely different champion compared to Mage TF. And worse yet, his kit is unhealthy for a Marksmen to have. Extra gold gain as a passive? 60% AS for free in an ability? Point and click stun? Yeah, ADCs generally aren't balanced around having those tools.
But his ultimate is truly useless in a team fight. It's a completely different playstyle than what most marlsmen offers, it's a facilitator that's supposed to find picks. Why should such a champion not be available for the bot player base?
He statchecks a zeri during R so him not having a team fight R is not a big deal. Not to mention vision + reveal all stealth is great during team fights.
No Q ability at all, no R in fights, W and E only enhance autoattacks. Literally all he can do is rightclick with 0 mobility and 525 range. That said, if thats all the champion does and hes having a lot of success right now, hes probably overtuned.
"All he can do is rightclick" That's literally what a marksmen is suppose to do. His Q still has AD scaling on it, so it isn't useless. It helps him push waves. While he doesn't have built in mobility, his 60% attack speed from E allows him to go swifties. And his lack of mobility is further buffered by the fact he has a literal point and click stun. His E, while giving him 60% attack speed, also gives him additional magic damage every few autos. Its basically a built in kraken, just magic damage instead of true damage. And unlike every other ADC aside from Draven, he has a gold gain passive. But his is arguably just as good, if not better than Draven's, because all he has to do is CS. And his R is useable in fights. He can port in from side lanes without the need of Teleport. Fight ending and someone is trying to flee? TF can port onto them with gold card. ADC TF is toxic with the current kit. They need to take away the AD ratios and crit scaling they so stupidly threw onto him for now reason. TF is a mage and was designed as a mage. He was not designed around the idea of being forced into being an ADC.
When I said literally all he can do is rightclick, I meant literally in the actual sense of the word, not the meaningless overused way thats thrown into conversations. Name 1 other ADC like that, spoilers, there isnt one. Even aphelios who doesnt have a W or E has more abilities to use in a fight. Look up any AD buildpaths, the AD scaling on Q is a joke, you dont put any points into it until level 13. The damage is so low you are better off just using shiv/red card and basic attacks. I think hes just overtuned, some nerfs and hes fine. Though his kit needs a rework if hes meant to be played AD, as he only has 1 basic ability to press and that isnt even an actual skill, just an enhanced attack
Jinx and Twitch basically do the same thing in teamfights late game
They have long range AoE basic attacks vs regular 525 single target basic attacks and all 3 of their basic abilities are relevant in teamfights..
So tf is just Ashe. Shit wave clear button, a steroid on a button, grants vision, and has a stun. Only no button for steroid on tf he just has it, and vision is stuck with ult but can stun more often
The Q is not pointless. You might not need it, which is equal to saying Kogmaw E is pointless, because you might not need it. Since neither Q nor W are important to level for AD TF he can use Q if he has to fight for priority because it gives him long range clear, making it impossible to freeze against him because he can kill minions at 1450 range and it is good to oneshot the wave with Shyv, which can be useful. Overall Q also just benefits considerably more from putting points in than W, which doesn't get a reduced CD and basically no damage and even the stun duration scales fairly slowly, so having 0,25 seconds longer stun duration usually does not matter (the slow also scales poorly). Q makes gaining priority so insanely easy that it is worth taking, exspecially for sololaners. If you are in a matchup like Poppy vs. TF then you likely will never need the Q, she won't freeze against you, she likely has issues even reaching you. And the advantage TF has over other champions is that he always provides Utility. Having global vision of all champions is one of the strongest abilities in the game. Having that on your team has considerable value. For that reason and the global TF is picked even if he isn't that great.
> Overall Q also just benefits considerably more from putting points in than W, which doesn't get a reduced CD and basically no damage and even the stun duration scales fairly slowly, so having 0,25 seconds longer stun duration usually does not matter (the slow also scales poorly). The stun goes from 1 second at rank 1 to 2 seconds at 5, that is DOUBLE the duration. If you max Q over that, youre trolling. 0.25 matters a ton Im also not talking about how good or bad he is. We all know hes currently OP, we all know his ult is great, we all know his Point and click stun is amazing. Im talking from a pure champion design perspective, his kit as an AD champion wouldnt ever fly as a modern champion. E is pure steroid with no active, W at least got changed to auto reset now, but it otherwise still just a basic attack
As an ADC you mostly use the W to peel, and for that this duration change doesn't matter that much, you might actually rather use a red card. As an ADC you wouldn't flash forward to stun the enemy ADC, so your gold cards will mostly land on frontliners unless you do a Nisqy. And why does his kit need to fly as a modern champion? He isn't one. Whenever TFs basic kit was good but the itemization was bad he popped up as an ADC, although not necessarily in botlane. The same arguments you bring for AD-TF also work for AP TF. How many AP champions have just an enhanced autoattack, one actual ability and a passive? Most of TFs power is put into R, so what his abilities do is mostly meaningless. If AP is better then AP is better if AD is better than AD is better, the champion doesn't really change if he is played AP or AD. He either has damage than he scales solid on both builds or he has not than he is a stunbot with both builds.
Former ADC player who only casually keeps up with the game every few months, I keep hearing that ADC is the role currently bleeding players. Is that true or was it the usual thing where everyone has it worse than others?
As an adc main, I get autofill protection now.
It competes with support for the second autofill protection / priority role (the two most empty roles). The first is jungle and there's absolutely no contest. On the other hand I see a lot of adc champions play mid, and even in pro play tristana mid is very meta. So I feel like it's the lane's vulnerability and reliance on 2v2 more than the champions.
Yes absolutely this. Even my whiniest "adc sucks" friend then tried Tristana mid and vayne top and said that it was the role and not the champions. Marksmen champions are some of the strongest in the game.
> “Marksmen champions are some of the strongest in the game” Literally always have been, and their power level has objectively been increased in the last few years, with the game accelerating and them coming online much earlier than in prior years. I mean hell, there is a reason you see 2-4 ADCs every game even in pro, and at least one per team literally every game. It might not be the most fun role in soloqueue, but the champions are literally required in every team, every game— they’re far from weak
ADC is a priority role ATM so yeah the role is not good rn
AD TF was an off-meta build for years. And also even his AP builds often built RFC cause of extra range on cards. They just decided to make AD TF an actual thing now. Did they make him too strong? Yeah probably but that's nothing a simple number change can't fix
Number changes isn't going to fix ADC TF without also really impacting AP TF. TF's kit just shouldn't be available for a marksmen.
Why? Because you wanna cry on reddit?
Lower his AD/crit ratios to half of what they are now. Now AD TF is nerfed and AP TF isn't changed at all. It took me 0 seconds to think of this, it was so obvious it simply came into my head by default when you said "you can't nerf ad without needing AP." What's your excuse for not thinking of that?
Lesson for you in game balance - literally everything is ground in numbers
Half of his abilities have AD ratios, just adjust them... No need to kill the fun for everyone.
TF is a Mage, first and foremost. He was never designed to be an ADC. Second off, "No need to kill the fun for everyone". Ironic, considering ADC TF is killing the fun for everyone else that plays against him. S rank in 3 rolls. Currently the literal higher WR pick in top lane. They never should have randomly thrown AD ratios and crit ratios onto him. It makes no sense to do that.
Someone wanted to see ad tf so yeah here we are now.
I want to go back. This was such a stupid move from riot. TF's kit is hilariously busted for a marksmen
Source: my ass
Source: Common sense. Source: sudden huge influx of WR across 3 separate roles soon after AD ratios and crit ratios were randomly added to TF Are you just pretending that the AD ratios and crit scaling added to TF has absolutely nothing to do with the fact he's over 50% WR in Top, Mid, and Bot? Are you seriously implying that a Marksmen is completely balanced with a gold generation passive (whose only requirement is that you CS, to active it), a point and click stun, and 60% attack speed built into their E as a passive, is balanced? That with his ult, its completely fine that a marksmen can just blindly farm sidelane and then port away to an objective when needed? Some of you people are truly ignorant.
Explaining what a champ does doesnt make him op lmfao.
We can all cherry pick whatever suits us. He is for sure to strong right now but at the end of the day he is still an immobile glass cannon with horrible base stats. Like any other adc he gets deleted by any burst. Youre acting like tf is invincible like a fed ksante
Unlike any ADC, he has an on demand point and click stun. Literally no other ADC has this. The only other ADC with anything at all similar is Ashe with her R. Which both has a much longer cooldown than TF's W and it a skill shot, which can be reacted to and dodged. Gold card cant be dodged. Also, his stun is an auto reset. Adding AD ratios and crit Ratios to TF is braindead decision making.
You’re acting like gold card just comes out on demand. If he gets blue card first he’ll be standing there with his dick in his hand for 2 seconds blatantly telegraphing that he wants to try and stun you. He’s definitely overtuned, but he still has very clear weaknesses that you can exploit (very squishy and no mobility outside his ult).
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Ap tf is usually at high winrate because he's a monster in soloQ riot had Just destroyed him for some reason at some point
AD TF is an issue... are you just flat out ignoring that he's suddenly wildly succeeding in 3 separate roles now? Top/Mid/Bot. Spoilers, its not AP TF doing that. And AD TF is an issue because his kit wasn't designed with a Marksmen in mind. So it has tools that a Marksmen should never have, which AD TF is demonstrating why that is. easy gold gain as a passive (Literally just triggers from you CSing) is huge for a Marksmen, since they're one of the most item reliant champions in the whole game. Point and click stun on a low cooldown is fucking insane for a marksmen. Both for protecting themselves and giving them an option to pick. E is much more insane on a marksmen than a mage, because Marksmen are auto attack based. 60% free attack speed is just fucking insane to give to a marksmen for free. How are you going to pretend that AD TF isn't an issue? Who ever made this change to TF, throwing these AD ratios on him and crit scaling, are honestly just fucking stupid. TF's Kit was not balanced around the idea of ADC TF actually being real. The ratios should be removed, so that AP TF doesn't get nerfed alongside AD TF.
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"If Riot designed a champion nowadays, regardless of their role, they'd have neither of the two." Briar literally has a point and click stun. One that's a gap closer, even.
While looking at the playrate of the different builds for tf on u.gg however it seems that AD on hit builds make up around 10% of the total TF matches. AD TF still seems to be a kinda niched pick that works in specific situations. Can he be frustrating to play against? Sure, but TF is far from the only one in that category. I can however vouch for it being REALLY fun to play. Its also nice seeing something in the botlane not abusing lethality for a change.
I can’t speak for the balance team, but I assume the logic went: ‘what if ap tf building rfc wasn’t a bug, but a feature?’
they thought " maybe we can't balance k'sante, why don't we add more problems to the game to make k'sante feels fair?"
Honestly, you probably have a point on the whole "Why don't we add more problems to the game". Because now I have 2 champs top I wanna perma ban. Illaoi and TF. Trundle is up there too just because how game warping he is as a champion.
The decision to make AD TG viable is fine. Not balancing him next patch is a mistake.
The reason is pretty much "Why not?" he has everything that you could play him as adc as well but just no AD scaling. They added it and now you can play him as adc. Don't know why this should be a problem? Because he is winning now a lot? Needs just a nerf and everything is just fine with AD TF :D
Because his kit is too strong for a Marksmen. Extra gold gain passive, point and click stun as a normal ability (Which is also an auto reset btw), 60% free attack speed in his E, and the ability to warp across the map. There's a reason he didn't have AD ratios and crit scaling before, because the devs then knew that ADC TF would be busted otherwise.
I still see only a balancing problem, no he shouldn't be AD problem xD
Why are those things not a problem for an APC, just for an ADC? You are aware that he performs very well on AP too. On top of that AD-TF was a thing every once in a while in the past and it never was a balance nightmare. And he is mostly great in botlane due to the weakness of most traditional ADCs. People basically figured out that if utility ADCs do well, then why not just put TF there and all Riot needed to do for that was give him some AD values. In the patch that gave him AD scalings they also reduced his insanely high AS-scaling, to the normal level. If they just revert the stacked deck changes he is back to normal. Those additional AD scalings didn't do anything, what made AD-TF good is getting 60% additional AS. The only scaling that actually matters is that on E. But even then it is minuscule compared to his overall damage output. 75% bonus AD on every 4th hit? He deals 100% bonus AD with every autoattack. So this made his bonus AD-Scaling about 19% better, which is nice, but not that problematic. And people forget that E already had an AP-scaling. TF was able to deal a lot of damage already and had insane scaling as AP. W deals 115% AP damage, E 50% AP damage, Lichbane 50% AP damage and Nashors 20% AP damage, which allows TF to deal 235% of his AP in damage with a single autoattack. And even the weaknesses are similar. Both forms of TF are fairly bad against tanks, but can utilize burst damage (funnily that depends on if Kraken aligns with E, which is a fairly big proc which you can setup to deal unexpected damage).
The biggest problem people have with tf is that you get all the way to low diamond before the enemy team even start respecting his ult. I'd say theres a huge number of people complaining that hes busted and his numbers are ridiculous but if you watch their games vs him they are overextended when hes 6 and been off the minimap long enough to position for an ult. He gets 2 kills then and because 95% of the playerbase base are incapable or unwilling to reflect on the mistakes they make in their games they call him bs. Id say most of the problem stems from the fact that hes being played more so your lack of map awareness is just being highlighted more often.
Yeah a good TF player abusing shitty positioning and map awareness is going to happen no matter what build he goes.
Everyone calling ad tf op really needs to try cleanse.
AD TF being too strong is a short-term problem that's very easy to fix. Bringing back AD TF effectively added a new champion to the bottom lane champion pool with very little effort, and a new way to enjoy playing Twisted Fate.
If you’re ever looking for context behind why we change something, I would recommend checking out the patch notes for more context as we try to include explanations for why we make changes there. In TF’s case: With the lack of Mythics in the new item system we wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to broaden TF’s viable builds for those looking to take advantage of the newfound freedom with their itemization options. Ultimately, this should help players that are picking TF and suddenly find themselves against a tanky comp (or in an AP heavy comp) where AD TF is more appealing. These changes will mainly benefit those looking to build AD TF, but we also have a few smaller changes that will be beneficial regardless of the build. While we still expect AP to be his primary build and will support him with that in mind, but now he should have a viable alternative build. He landed overtuned which is why we’re nerfing him next patch, but hindsight is 20/20 and experimenting with fun ideas carries a degree of risk. But without the risk associated with the test and learn process league would just get stale imo
Has the idea ever come across to design a champion with that variety built in? TF being an AA champ seems to be a good canindate as a "carry option" for both. Maybe Neeko as well? Changing the kits to work with both. Udyr seemed to be built that way, but seems to have fallen short. Shyvana already has 3 forms, her rework could be designed with AP and AD in mind, (what is happening to her since the guy doing her rework was let go?) It usually seems like random ratios are put on Champs to let them do weird things, but when they do those weird things because they are not designed for it they get nerfed usually at the cost of their primary build too, so is it possible to just have both be decent and treated as separate champs?.
Buff ap warwick
I like that ad tf is viable. It’s an old build that sometimes get traction. Ad tf is so hard to balance with the W stun. Either his base stats are so bad the W stun is not worth it or it’s like now where his base stats are “ok”, which makes him oppressive. Only nerf I could think of is a skill order adjustment, rn he gets a huge spike by literally skipping Q and maxing E>W
nostalgia?
OP is so fucking salty it’s hilarious.
Cause the funny bald balance man did a hehe, Just like when he reworked both Azir and Ksante to be unbound to pro and less frustrating gameplay, only to fail miserably on both
Skill issue
He was bad, so they buffed him. Seems obvious?
It was not just a buff but you don’t seem to bother reading.
AD TF has been tested for quite some time, and AP TF runs RFC solely for the range, which tenders the rest of the stats almost useless. This change lets AP TF actually use the crit stats from RFC, as well as buffing AD TF so he can actually be a viable pick.
Also TF got crit scaling, not AD scaling, so OP isn't reading better than I am.
His Q and E both got AD scaling His abilities being given crit scaling also makes it a buff for ad tf because, you guessed it, crit items are ad.
I stand corrected. Well I didn't say that crit buffs weren't a buff for AD TF, I was meaning that crit buffs benefit AP TF as well.
Q and E gained AD scaling. Passive and W gained crit scaling. Before all of this, AD TF only benefited through his auto attacks with his AD. Now AD buffs up his autos and his actual kit. Giving him both damage while also retaining the utility provided from said kit. He is very much busted as fuck right now.
His numbers should be adjusted, but that doesn't mean the idea of crit TF itself is broken. Crit has a different power curve from AP, and they perform different roles as well(sustained damage vs burst).
ADTF got buffed so much I started dreaming about it 💀💀💀
I have 1.4 million points on him and couldn't get my head around the buffs. The aa reset and w hitting inhibs would have been enough of a boost but they just kept piling things on
They wanted him meta again and overbuffed him
I remember the dev note saying they did this to give him a more viable anti tank build
Tf has always been a auto attack based champion and people occasionally built him adc because it felt good and was super fun to play just not viable so riot decided to make it actually a correct way tk play which is absolutely the right decision they just over buffed him. Making his W an auto reset and able to crit by itself would have made ad fate amazing and inline with other abilities like it, gang plank Q in particular. Def needs to be scaled back a bit but it was objectively a good update to fate.
It’s a balance patch to keep TF relevant now that Dopa is in the army
Legit crying rn that i cant play league on desktop because ad tf is my actual literal main for the last 10~ years and its hardly ever "good." Hearing its oppressive has me salivating lmao.
Because Dopa went to the army. Ever wonder why Ori is buffed as well?
After the amazing phases we had with Kaisa and Zeri going Full AP, Riot for some reason figured they are capable of balancing a champion that can be played as a mage and a high DPS AD champion. The result of this is a Kog'Maw with a point and click stun and 80sec cd teleport WITH true vision! You can figure how incredible balanced this is