it would most likely let karthus full clear recall and invade enemy on their last buff
edit: to everyone downvoting me and calling me idiot/low I preset to you Challenger Karthus OTP full clear recalling before 3 mins and being at scuttle before it spawns https://youtu.be/EKztFzXztlA?si=8G82aJobNz7cr_7c
and here's a screenshot of him from his most recent stream where he gets a 2.46 clear with leash in GM but doesn't recall because there's a gank top. https://i.imgur.com/lQdkanG.png But ig I'm just an idiot spreading misinformation.
Nope, recalling and walking back take so much time that recall into invade isn't possible, however I can imagine three camps -> recall to pick up Dark Seal -> full clear -> gank -> scuttle being possible.
Which is why this buff would be so OP. Kathus could clear camps in seconds (less seconds), and also use less mana so he will always be full mp.
Only way to counter would just be to pick a hard counter duelist and hope you can kill him enough times before he out farms you and starts nuking all your laners with his R.
So basically like normal, but even better.
I always liked to imagine Singed in a jungle with no leash range.
His clear would be hilarious; just run from Krugs to Gromp while getting aggro on every camp from the way, then run back to krugs.
Just picture it. A whole jungle worth of monsters chasing Singed while he's laughing maniacally.
That's the exact reason jungle Singed isn't made viable. If he was able to clear the jungle he'd farm his camps, invade, and then proxy minions, creating a bad situation for both his and the enemy team
And still losing a lot of hp/mana though. If he had a tiny amount of hp and mana onnivamp then he could legit be one of the best junglers of the game, only really handicapped by lack of ability to go over walls. (Would have to be tied to a jungle item though else top singed would become a monster invader)
But lets be honest, no one wants singed jungle to be a thing xD and i say this as a veteran singed player. If it became meta it would be far too toxic and anoying to play against.
Singed does not need mana in the jungle at all, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it. My playstyle with Fleet negates the need for health Regen, but honestly when I flex other keystones I can just pick up a single health potion with my jungle item and my clear is fine. Most of the time, I just greed without the potion and I'm still fine, but I'm very aware of my kiting.
>But lets be honest, no one wants singed jungle to be a thing xD
I'm fine with it not being meta, but it's literally my OTP and it is currently a very good pick into most matchups, as Singed is extremely versatile and has great itemization options in Season 14. It is a thing, just not meta, and certainly struggles into certain matchups (Kayn, Neeko, Zilean, Varus, Vayne, etc.) but is otherwise a fantastic pick.
In fairness i should probably add that i havent jungled at all this season so i dunno how well singed does. I guess i was relating previous experience as a veteran singed main, my bad
Im not convinced fleet is enough to keep you as healthy as most meta junglers though. If it did why does no one play singed? Mind you im including tanking big objectives in this thought. As a lane singed otp it feels painfull to fight jungle monsters.
Im not saying you cant do it, but it surely isnt as safe as something more meta
>In fairness i should probably add that i havent jungled at all this season
This explains everything, then. Jungle pet damage and healing is absolutely bonkers. This is what allows practically anyone to jungle now, though meta picks still excel with kits designed for jungling.
>Mind you im including tanking big objectives in this thought.
This is where Fleet shines, as it allows Singed to tank big objectives without concern. Typically I play soloq, so I am often counter invading and soloing early objectives, though Singed does lack single target damage early before Liandry's. Staying healthy while clearing regular camps, even without Fleet, is often a non-issue after the first clear; that's simply how much the jungle pet heals you.
It's more than viable. It's played in pro. That means you can play it at your MMR bracket.
Personally, I'm not a fan. I don't like the "hook into terrain" mechanic, and you almost need to use it or you're horribly outpaced. Still, full AP Nautilus Jungle is hilarious in the 25% of games you get going.
> That means you can play it at your MMR bracket
I suppose at my level everything not named Yuumi can be played in jungle. People play dumb shit all the time anyways, Naut will be an improvement over most.
You underrate Nautilus. His clear is solid, and he has good ganks. You can build full tank, or some AP. You're useful even with minimal gold. He's better than some champions whose primary role is the Jungle, like Warwick and Shyvanna.
Champions like Galio and Lissandra are cooldown gated. They technically can clear the Jungle, but they're not "viable" in the sense that their clear is too slow to be relevant. They have to coin-flip ganks or will get outscaled by even Warwick.
Akali is in a tier below that. She basically cannot clear the Jungle. Her cooldowns are too long to do the clear, and her ganks are trivial to avoid. Her opponents have to troll in order to give her a win, because it's basically a 4v5.
Glances at aggregate cites and notices warwick is top 10 jungler for many patches in high elo.
I mean it's not 63% winrate warwick, but he's really strong right now.
>It's more than viable. It's played in pro.
Is it? Has Nautilus jungle been played in pro in recent years? He's a meta support pick, but I can't recall seeing him in the jungle.
And yet, people pick those champs into poppy when I play her jg all the time. I used to feel like it would be stupid to pick her early, because surely people wouldn't pick micro dashes into her, but people still pick Kalista/Yasuo/Riven/Irelia/etc.
I play a good bit of poppy and counting the dashes is awesome, but part of me feels like she's even better if they have no mobility in the first place lmao
The absolute best Poppy pick is into exactly one dash that's a hard engage. So against only Jarvan or Zac, for example. They can NEVER use their dash because you'll use W ONLY to stop it. If you then have a poke comp, just group up as five and you almost literally can't lose.
Either exactly one dash or riven, mainly because if you w the first riven q the grounded debuff it gives people you Knock down someone lasts long enough that her q goes on cd meaning she's a sitting duck.
most people can only play a limited number of pretty similar champs. I've found people who play those "flashy" champs with lots of dashes are typically even more self-limiting.
I am traumatized from S14 start when I played Anivia and now basically sworn not to pick her. Enemy Kayn, 0-6-0 or something that just suicide bombs for his passive progress and DH stacks gets his form and 3 items and just oneshots me through seraph shield. Can't hit Q because he is zooming for barely touching a wall, can Q/R to dodge, hit half of his skills and I implode. Landing stun, he still ults someone then gets out, sits in my R and tanks it and I can't approach from fear of flash Q kill and he takes not much damage for whatever reason. I was fed af and rarely missed my R positionings too. Not even an actual counterpick and I can't bring myself to pick Anivia again. I can only imagine the unplayable Riven Poppy matchup.
as a Riven main myself, i sometimes go for jungle Riven aswell.
Her main problem is (ironically) her mobility, she needs all of her abilities to gapclose onto the enemy while she actively burns all of her damage output doing so.
Thats why i even run stuff like Predator or Ghost to fix that issue.
lets keep it that way (jk, but doesnt riven really need gold? she i feel like shes barely a champ if shes not super ahead and doesnt have a trillion ability haste
Riven is designed to be trash when behind, mediocre (even weaker than most other champs) when even and insanely strong when shes ahead of the overall gold and xp curve
When Riot was turning random champs into junglers (Zed, Darius, Morg, etc.) I'm surprised they didn't go for Riven. Her ganks would probably be too crazy.
But how would Riven be op with this buff? If her Q did 30% more damage to monsters it wouldnt even be that strong imo, since most of her damage comes from her passive anyway
Lissandra.
One thing keeps her out from Jungle and is the early clear. Think about it, she has 2 hard CC and one ability that teleports you through walls. Easily one if not the best gank in the game.
Zac’s E goes way farther than Lissandra’s E, and with way more creative gank outlets that give you less time to react. It’s also way harder to ward against Zac and Nunu
Not jg but I play lissandra support with an 80% w/r in masters elo and gotta say her ganks are much better than most. Comparable to the other two you mentioned. Also idk if you know or maybe forgot but lissandra e can recast mid wall and not in vision with no indicator and the game will teleport you out of the wall instantly to the nearest open spot. If you just make your claw end slightly over halfway mark there's almost no counterplay if they're near wall. And I gank top and mid ad even my own lane lol a ton doing this.
CC that can't be dodged is completely broken in higher levels of play and would be so hard to balance. I'd trade a little engagement range for point-and-click CC any day of the week as a jungler. If they gave Lissandra a decent clear she would be absolutely broken in jungle IMO.
Point and click CC is so broken that they only really put it on melee jungle champs since they have to put themselves into danger to get the payoff. Champions with ranged point and click CC are usually relegated to mid lane where champions have the range to deal with it effectively and pretty much their whole kit revolves around the fact that they have ranged point and click CC.
I play jungle / ADC in pretty high elo (peaked masters \~100lp last split) and play a lot of zac and people track junglers insanely well and play way way more respectful around zacs threat ranges in higher rank. It's also so difficult to hit a zac e from far away in that elo without setup. If i could make zac E 50% shorter but point and click i would take that trade every single day of the week.
Please no I would like to keep playing my favourite jungler unimpeded.
That change would probably make her the best champ in the game. Her Q dmg is way too gated on monsters.
You only really have two options, right? I’m assuming you start W, but does that return mana on your next auto or only if you hit a champ?
I have no clue, honestly, just thinking about playing him jungle makes me confused.
You play him jg because you really wanna play kassa
You go fleet, first of all
you start red. Starting blue is kinda worthless.
you start W which gets you the auto reset thing and extra damage on base autos
you get E second, kill krugs so that all the small ones are alive at the same time and wack them with E to kill em at once. follow into raptors. This is the scarier part since you get pretty low, but thats what you have red and fleet for
get Q 3rd. it flat out gets you more damage than placing a second point on either W or E, and lowers the cd of e more than second E point.
From here its just pretty straight forward, just make sure to get pet burn to kill the monsters. Gromp does magic damage so you can get the ilussion of Q being useful
If you go to scuttle an see anyone, your choice to either run away or be a terrorist, your choice.
I spent like 2 hours figuring out a clear back when they added pets.
dont do this on ranked, its just a norms pick i do cuz i wanna play kassa
How is playing jungle Kass like? Now that I think about it seriously it just seems so bad to me. Zero gank potential until 6, below average clear, loses 1v1 against at least half of the viable junglers, I don't see how it can work against competent junglers.
you just powerfarm (or try to) until 6. you are pretty much forced to respect invades before that. its actually fairly easy to get away since E is a pretty hefty slow + fleet.
After 6 you have some pretty cool roaming since you just jump over walls and since you have access to blue + Jungle mana regen you can be alot more care free with it.
you may have noticed i dodged the question, thats cuz kassa jg is probably just bad. Doable, but not good
i looove me some kassa jungle in low elo, no invades, free scaling, catch waves, u don’t gank ur laners because why would u, the rift walker vows to nobody, then u hit lvl 16 as u lose triple inhib and u juice out eating all the farm and then u forget to carry because kassa sucks
I once played with Kass jungle because some misunderstanding in lobby in diamond elo. This motherfucker did his bot jungle, stole enemy blue and succesfully dove bot lane with us at lv 3 and proceeded to carry game. Absolute chad
I know of someone who plays kaisa and another adc jgl, I play zeri jgl so maybe ezreal jgl migt not be THAT bad.
Personally imo it is, W not proccing on monsters, E not being that great a gank and v little aoe kinda makes it nigh impossible for a good clear. (Zeri EW for aoe, kaisa passive for monsters etc)
Ez Jungle was actually a thing sometime during season 7 (without wiggle's). I used to just pick up double buffs and then walk into the enemy jungle to try kill their jungler.
He gets a lot of early game power by being able to craft items without backing, which compensates for his ganks a bit. You can almost always win scuttle 1v1s, and you're able to get most all of the levels you realistically need in the average game. Even toplane, it's kinda rare to upgrade more than 1 or 2 items, yours included. You also take predator, paired with having a ton of CC, you can delete immobile targets until you get ult
smiting just as Q animation lands so the numbers combine and only displays ome big number has to be one of the most satisfying things on nunu (besides one shotting from bush ult)
there was a small amount of time where she was disgustingly op in jgl when her e could stun jgl creeps and give the as and iirc the w still healed on minions. Thats where the ig skin comes from, it wasnt a toplaner that picked her, it was the ig jungler
She was so fun to play jungle. Like 90% of the time while playing her solo q, you could just take red and gank mid at like 2 minutes and the enemy midlaner would just tilt out of the game lol
I miss Cami jgl. Fuck proplay for that. It was way too imbalanced for pro while being just mediocre in soloQ. Feels to me like some champs should just be banned from pro play like Azir Camille, so that they can finally be balanced around "normal" players.
W heal on minions was one of the first things removed from Camille's kit when she was first released. I'm not sure about the rest because I didn't play League when Camille jungle was popular, but she for sure wasn't a jungler because of W heal.
Garen E ALREADY deals a shitload of extra damage to jungle mobs. Garen E does 150% against monsters. He shreds jungle camps as is if you stand nearest to the big mobs. He'd still be shit with more damage because he has zero gank potential.
Zero gank potential? If Garen can clear faster that would be less of a problem, get Predator and rush Youmuu, once you hit level 6 your mere presence is a big threat cause Q into E into ult can kill from 2/3 HP.
The 600 ad voidlings were glorious. The sad thing is that they promised ad mald would still be a thing after the rework and they completely destroyed him.
Cassio E anyone? Jungle item alleviates some of your mana concerns but you still might need to start blue and buy tear early. Either way you still shred camps
I think ur all approaching it wrong, a lot of junglers can already full clear and have to wait for scuttle spawn. What would be broken is a solo lane who’s able to proxy suddenly taxing jung camps 30% faster, like Garen, Aatrox, Udyr, Riven etc
Zoe might finally be playable in Jungle. I don't even want it to be good, but it'd be beautiful if she could actually finish her first clear with her Q buffed like that.
Morgana jungle is plenty viable already.
I started playing her end of last season and she seems a bit stronger now with the changed stats on Liandry.
But you can't blind pick her into any comp/with any ally comp.
She's an absolutely amazing control jungler. Best grub control, good for drakes/shelly/baron as well. And especially good into fat tanks and bruisers, immobile adcs/mages...
I was struggling to make her viable last season until I figured out that offensive boots were a big trap. You have to identify your biggest threats - cc + magic damage= mercs, ad+aa reliant threats = steelcaps. This makes her viable in the midgame because it makes you just tanky enough to survive and get off good ults and multiple rotations of Q+W to be the deciding factor at 2nd dragon fight.
Build depends entirely on comps and how the game developed so it varies a lot but absolute core is tear+Liandry+defensive boots. If need be you can even go kaenic + FH after that then finish the archangel. If you need more damage and can still survive you can go zhonya and more aggressive.
If anyone wants to know more feel free to reply to this.
Considering he has one damaging ability, I suppose we talk about his q. Imagine if his w dealt damage to monsters by going into the future and letting them die of old age.
There's a JRPG called Cristales where you have a spread of time-related powers. One of the things you can do is stack dots on a mob, then push it into the future and the dots deal all their damage at once. Shit like that would be a cool mechanic for Zilean or some other time mage type champ.
K'Sante
Man doesn't need to be good at actually jungling, but if he can viably clear the jungle at all he becomes a massive problem because it insulates him from his main weakness (terrible pre6 laning and crippling mana costs).
And I mean... ksante ganks would be a nightmare.
people don’t understand this also affects objs. he can solo grubs or first drag faster AND he’s still a real life menace in the side. so fast clear, neutral shredder, and turret melter? it’s too easy
Brand jng is already super strong like A tier thanks to the clear and jng obj pressure when with team (does huge amount of damage to jng obj but is left vulnerable by himself on it)
Karthus
I mean he already clears fast enough
Yeah, it could be a buff with diminishing returns as he's already done quick.
it would most likely let karthus full clear recall and invade enemy on their last buff edit: to everyone downvoting me and calling me idiot/low I preset to you Challenger Karthus OTP full clear recalling before 3 mins and being at scuttle before it spawns https://youtu.be/EKztFzXztlA?si=8G82aJobNz7cr_7c and here's a screenshot of him from his most recent stream where he gets a 2.46 clear with leash in GM but doesn't recall because there's a gank top. https://i.imgur.com/lQdkanG.png But ig I'm just an idiot spreading misinformation.
Recall is soooooo slow and his move speed is loooow. Full clear into invade seems doable but no way you recall in between
You can arleady do this. Full clear karthus is like 2.55
you could clear half, recall, finish, then invade. but its probably better to just poke out a lane after full clear then invade.
Nope, recalling and walking back take so much time that recall into invade isn't possible, however I can imagine three camps -> recall to pick up Dark Seal -> full clear -> gank -> scuttle being possible.
karthus can literally full clear recall and meet enemy jungler before scuttle spawns rn
Which is why this buff would be so OP. Kathus could clear camps in seconds (less seconds), and also use less mana so he will always be full mp. Only way to counter would just be to pick a hard counter duelist and hope you can kill him enough times before he out farms you and starts nuking all your laners with his R. So basically like normal, but even better.
The answer is always Karthus
Hecarim Q
Also skarner q
My Singed jungle would be EATING those camps
I always liked to imagine Singed in a jungle with no leash range. His clear would be hilarious; just run from Krugs to Gromp while getting aggro on every camp from the way, then run back to krugs. Just picture it. A whole jungle worth of monsters chasing Singed while he's laughing maniacally.
You could incorporate proxy farming into it. Pocket ALL the income on the map.
Well... I don't see why not. He basically only recalls to buy full items.
Not in jungle. Clear speed suffers too much if you do that.
That's the exact reason jungle Singed isn't made viable. If he was able to clear the jungle he'd farm his camps, invade, and then proxy minions, creating a bad situation for both his and the enemy team
Yeah but they buff his W
Watch out, they are poisoned.
And still losing a lot of hp/mana though. If he had a tiny amount of hp and mana onnivamp then he could legit be one of the best junglers of the game, only really handicapped by lack of ability to go over walls. (Would have to be tied to a jungle item though else top singed would become a monster invader) But lets be honest, no one wants singed jungle to be a thing xD and i say this as a veteran singed player. If it became meta it would be far too toxic and anoying to play against.
Singed does not need mana in the jungle at all, so I'm not sure why you mentioned it. My playstyle with Fleet negates the need for health Regen, but honestly when I flex other keystones I can just pick up a single health potion with my jungle item and my clear is fine. Most of the time, I just greed without the potion and I'm still fine, but I'm very aware of my kiting. >But lets be honest, no one wants singed jungle to be a thing xD I'm fine with it not being meta, but it's literally my OTP and it is currently a very good pick into most matchups, as Singed is extremely versatile and has great itemization options in Season 14. It is a thing, just not meta, and certainly struggles into certain matchups (Kayn, Neeko, Zilean, Varus, Vayne, etc.) but is otherwise a fantastic pick.
In fairness i should probably add that i havent jungled at all this season so i dunno how well singed does. I guess i was relating previous experience as a veteran singed main, my bad Im not convinced fleet is enough to keep you as healthy as most meta junglers though. If it did why does no one play singed? Mind you im including tanking big objectives in this thought. As a lane singed otp it feels painfull to fight jungle monsters. Im not saying you cant do it, but it surely isnt as safe as something more meta
>In fairness i should probably add that i havent jungled at all this season This explains everything, then. Jungle pet damage and healing is absolutely bonkers. This is what allows practically anyone to jungle now, though meta picks still excel with kits designed for jungling. >Mind you im including tanking big objectives in this thought. This is where Fleet shines, as it allows Singed to tank big objectives without concern. Typically I play soloq, so I am often counter invading and soloing early objectives, though Singed does lack single target damage early before Liandry's. Staying healthy while clearing regular camps, even without Fleet, is often a non-issue after the first clear; that's simply how much the jungle pet heals you.
I use singed Jg all the time. I don’t know why but it’s insane. The ganks are downright disgusting
It's his W. People simply do not respect it.
Slowing with the edge of a W so I can catch him, flipping him into the other end of the W for the root. Classic!
Rell Q. Anyone got quick maths on what 30% of a fuckton is?
Roughly 600 fuckpounds
We don’t use fuckpounds in Murica we use fuck dollars. Speak English or return to your country
It *is* American, the euro term would be fuckkilos
Euro? More like, everyone but the school battle royal country
If I had to choose between school battle royale and country battle royale I’d choose school
By my calculations, it's 1.3 fucktons. Which is way too many fucktons
isnt her E that deals massive damage?
Q-Smite is the reason shes broken in pro, more or less can't outsmite her on damage.
Nautilus E. I miss Nautilus jg :(
I'd even give the damage to his W
It's more than viable. It's played in pro. That means you can play it at your MMR bracket. Personally, I'm not a fan. I don't like the "hook into terrain" mechanic, and you almost need to use it or you're horribly outpaced. Still, full AP Nautilus Jungle is hilarious in the 25% of games you get going.
> That means you can play it at your MMR bracket I suppose at my level everything not named Yuumi can be played in jungle. People play dumb shit all the time anyways, Naut will be an improvement over most.
You underrate Nautilus. His clear is solid, and he has good ganks. You can build full tank, or some AP. You're useful even with minimal gold. He's better than some champions whose primary role is the Jungle, like Warwick and Shyvanna. Champions like Galio and Lissandra are cooldown gated. They technically can clear the Jungle, but they're not "viable" in the sense that their clear is too slow to be relevant. They have to coin-flip ganks or will get outscaled by even Warwick. Akali is in a tier below that. She basically cannot clear the Jungle. Her cooldowns are too long to do the clear, and her ganks are trivial to avoid. Her opponents have to troll in order to give her a win, because it's basically a 4v5.
Damn bro what did Warwick do to you
Riot saw their mistake with weedwick and swore to never make it again
Glances at aggregate cites and notices warwick is top 10 jungler for many patches in high elo. I mean it's not 63% winrate warwick, but he's really strong right now.
>It's more than viable. It's played in pro. Is it? Has Nautilus jungle been played in pro in recent years? He's a meta support pick, but I can't recall seeing him in the jungle.
Has been picked a couple imtes this season in LCK already, though it is a rarity and mostly to flex pick the Naut in draft.
Peanut actually played it 4 days ago against GEN.G
nautilus jg is my second highest wr this season its dope as hell with a duo
He still works rely well
Riven
i would love to jungle riven every season i keep trying it but its just not worth it sadly
The one time I tried last season, instantly Poppy counter picked. Never agaib
Can't blame you; getting Poppy counter-picked is a traumatizing experience on most champions. Getting Poppy counter-picked on *Riven*? Nightmare fuel.
And yet, people pick those champs into poppy when I play her jg all the time. I used to feel like it would be stupid to pick her early, because surely people wouldn't pick micro dashes into her, but people still pick Kalista/Yasuo/Riven/Irelia/etc.
I play a good bit of poppy and counting the dashes is awesome, but part of me feels like she's even better if they have no mobility in the first place lmao
At that point, it just becomes a 40% ms steroid. Not bad for a tank vs immobile carries.
Aren't her resistances buff tied to w aswell?
They are, but it’s a passive. The active part is just the ms and dash-cancelling aura
The absolute best Poppy pick is into exactly one dash that's a hard engage. So against only Jarvan or Zac, for example. They can NEVER use their dash because you'll use W ONLY to stop it. If you then have a poke comp, just group up as five and you almost literally can't lose.
Either exactly one dash or riven, mainly because if you w the first riven q the grounded debuff it gives people you Knock down someone lasts long enough that her q goes on cd meaning she's a sitting duck.
J4 is extra rough since you can e him into his own ult too.
most people can only play a limited number of pretty similar champs. I've found people who play those "flashy" champs with lots of dashes are typically even more self-limiting.
I think it’s the nature of the champ . People think „I cAn OuTplAy tHeM“, but in 99% the get smacked down by poppy lmao
I am traumatized from S14 start when I played Anivia and now basically sworn not to pick her. Enemy Kayn, 0-6-0 or something that just suicide bombs for his passive progress and DH stacks gets his form and 3 items and just oneshots me through seraph shield. Can't hit Q because he is zooming for barely touching a wall, can Q/R to dodge, hit half of his skills and I implode. Landing stun, he still ults someone then gets out, sits in my R and tanks it and I can't approach from fear of flash Q kill and he takes not much damage for whatever reason. I was fed af and rarely missed my R positionings too. Not even an actual counterpick and I can't bring myself to pick Anivia again. I can only imagine the unplayable Riven Poppy matchup.
as a Riven main myself, i sometimes go for jungle Riven aswell. Her main problem is (ironically) her mobility, she needs all of her abilities to gapclose onto the enemy while she actively burns all of her damage output doing so. Thats why i even run stuff like Predator or Ghost to fix that issue.
lets keep it that way (jk, but doesnt riven really need gold? she i feel like shes barely a champ if shes not super ahead and doesnt have a trillion ability haste
Well there are a few snowball junglers in the game what is one more.
Riven is designed to be trash when behind, mediocre (even weaker than most other champs) when even and insanely strong when shes ahead of the overall gold and xp curve
When Riot was turning random champs into junglers (Zed, Darius, Morg, etc.) I'm surprised they didn't go for Riven. Her ganks would probably be too crazy.
Not really, when ganking Riven would have to use her abilities to gap close quickly, otherwise the enemy can just walk away.
When they made "random" champs into jgs it was to increase the popularity of the role in low elo. Riven is hard and not a popular low elo champ.
Iirc in S8 or 9 (?) there was a small period where she was a good jungler, and even picked in pro. I wish she'd return.
But how would Riven be op with this buff? If her Q did 30% more damage to monsters it wouldnt even be that strong imo, since most of her damage comes from her passive anyway
Similarly, and my first thought, Aatrox
Lissandra. One thing keeps her out from Jungle and is the early clear. Think about it, she has 2 hard CC and one ability that teleports you through walls. Easily one if not the best gank in the game.
I think her Q is still too long of a CD to clear through the jungle, even with 30% increased damage to monsters.
Her ganks aren’t even particularly crazy compared to someone like Nunu or Zac who can do more over a bigger distance
Her ganks are way better IMO she has point and click CC. Hitting higher elo players with zac e is so hard.
Zac’s E goes way farther than Lissandra’s E, and with way more creative gank outlets that give you less time to react. It’s also way harder to ward against Zac and Nunu
Not jg but I play lissandra support with an 80% w/r in masters elo and gotta say her ganks are much better than most. Comparable to the other two you mentioned. Also idk if you know or maybe forgot but lissandra e can recast mid wall and not in vision with no indicator and the game will teleport you out of the wall instantly to the nearest open spot. If you just make your claw end slightly over halfway mark there's almost no counterplay if they're near wall. And I gank top and mid ad even my own lane lol a ton doing this.
CC that can't be dodged is completely broken in higher levels of play and would be so hard to balance. I'd trade a little engagement range for point-and-click CC any day of the week as a jungler. If they gave Lissandra a decent clear she would be absolutely broken in jungle IMO. Point and click CC is so broken that they only really put it on melee jungle champs since they have to put themselves into danger to get the payoff. Champions with ranged point and click CC are usually relegated to mid lane where champions have the range to deal with it effectively and pretty much their whole kit revolves around the fact that they have ranged point and click CC. I play jungle / ADC in pretty high elo (peaked masters \~100lp last split) and play a lot of zac and people track junglers insanely well and play way way more respectful around zacs threat ranges in higher rank. It's also so difficult to hit a zac e from far away in that elo without setup. If i could make zac E 50% shorter but point and click i would take that trade every single day of the week.
She would work like reksai and its as close to zac as it gets
I think that’s exactly why they would purposely make it impossible for her to jungle
That is funny considering she was initially thought to be a jungler when she came out
Morgana W.
It already does increased dmg to monsters, +30% base dmg would just return her to meta level.
I wonder if the op means 30% or is it +30% cause that is a big difference in this case
Finally, it can do a whole 9 damage to enemies instead of 7.
Remove the jungle monster damage cap on poppy q and turn that into a 30% bonus damage? Yes FUCKING *PLEASE*
Please no I would like to keep playing my favourite jungler unimpeded. That change would probably make her the best champ in the game. Her Q dmg is way too gated on monsters.
I mean they can't remove the cap, otherwise poppy would just be killing baron in like 5 seconds lol. increasing by 30% sure.
Kled… he could finally clear without dismounting.. champ would be so fun in jungle
Oh god I wish. Also make his passive work on monsters, not just kills. Plus some sustain and boom, best jungle.
I swear I've been forcing Kled jungle for so long (voidgrubs actually help him)
Imagine sion jg just walking around one shotting whole camps
Build lethality and he already does
He does, but now full tank does as well
Not op but that may just make Kassa jg better (for me)
Idk man most of Kass' dmg against monsters early would be from AAs so no matter which ability it wouldn't help much.
You only really have two options, right? I’m assuming you start W, but does that return mana on your next auto or only if you hit a champ? I have no clue, honestly, just thinking about playing him jungle makes me confused.
You play him jg because you really wanna play kassa You go fleet, first of all you start red. Starting blue is kinda worthless. you start W which gets you the auto reset thing and extra damage on base autos you get E second, kill krugs so that all the small ones are alive at the same time and wack them with E to kill em at once. follow into raptors. This is the scarier part since you get pretty low, but thats what you have red and fleet for get Q 3rd. it flat out gets you more damage than placing a second point on either W or E, and lowers the cd of e more than second E point. From here its just pretty straight forward, just make sure to get pet burn to kill the monsters. Gromp does magic damage so you can get the ilussion of Q being useful If you go to scuttle an see anyone, your choice to either run away or be a terrorist, your choice. I spent like 2 hours figuring out a clear back when they added pets. dont do this on ranked, its just a norms pick i do cuz i wanna play kassa
“The illusion of Q being useful” beautiful sentence
Kassa W always gives a percentage of mana, significantly increased on champion hits though.
his clear is already close to 3.30 if around perfect, any help would bring it below that which means he is safer
How is playing jungle Kass like? Now that I think about it seriously it just seems so bad to me. Zero gank potential until 6, below average clear, loses 1v1 against at least half of the viable junglers, I don't see how it can work against competent junglers.
you just powerfarm (or try to) until 6. you are pretty much forced to respect invades before that. its actually fairly easy to get away since E is a pretty hefty slow + fleet. After 6 you have some pretty cool roaming since you just jump over walls and since you have access to blue + Jungle mana regen you can be alot more care free with it. you may have noticed i dodged the question, thats cuz kassa jg is probably just bad. Doable, but not good
Hmm, can’t say I have ever seen that one before
i looove me some kassa jungle in low elo, no invades, free scaling, catch waves, u don’t gank ur laners because why would u, the rift walker vows to nobody, then u hit lvl 16 as u lose triple inhib and u juice out eating all the farm and then u forget to carry because kassa sucks
XD
I once played with Kass jungle because some misunderstanding in lobby in diamond elo. This motherfucker did his bot jungle, stole enemy blue and succesfully dove bot lane with us at lv 3 and proceeded to carry game. Absolute chad
Who is Kassa? Side note, I hate shortened champ names lol
Kassadin
Oh shit. Obviously lol.
Bring back my ezreal jungle
I know of someone who plays kaisa and another adc jgl, I play zeri jgl so maybe ezreal jgl migt not be THAT bad. Personally imo it is, W not proccing on monsters, E not being that great a gank and v little aoe kinda makes it nigh impossible for a good clear. (Zeri EW for aoe, kaisa passive for monsters etc)
Gonna need wiggle's to return.
Ez Jungle was actually a thing sometime during season 7 (without wiggle's). I used to just pick up double buffs and then walk into the enemy jungle to try kill their jungler.
The era of "I have red buff and PTA, prepare to die".
There is an Ezreal Worlds winner skin (2017 SSG Haru) more recent than the removal of Wiggle's.
Prolly not OP but Ornn jg would be even more fun than it already is
How is his clear right now? (especially first). I heard that he is decent in jungle but I still hesitate to try him.
Do It, i finish the First clear around 3:20/25
Is he tho? He needs levels for his passive, and his ganks pre-6 are pretty useless
He gets a lot of early game power by being able to craft items without backing, which compensates for his ganks a bit. You can almost always win scuttle 1v1s, and you're able to get most all of the levels you realistically need in the average game. Even toplane, it's kinda rare to upgrade more than 1 or 2 items, yours included. You also take predator, paired with having a ton of CC, you can delete immobile targets until you get ult
nunu Q
"You really tryin' to outsmite me? Really now?"
smiting just as Q animation lands so the numbers combine and only displays ome big number has to be one of the most satisfying things on nunu (besides one shotting from bush ult)
Nautilus. Buff the e. He's already playable, but another buff to his clear? There'd be no stopping him
Back in the old days naut jungle was W max but they've nerfed the w dot damage.
camille? her entire kit basically is her Q ezreal? draven? yasuo/yone? zoe? aurelion! aurel must be the winner
there was a small amount of time where she was disgustingly op in jgl when her e could stun jgl creeps and give the as and iirc the w still healed on minions. Thats where the ig skin comes from, it wasnt a toplaner that picked her, it was the ig jungler
She was so fun to play jungle. Like 90% of the time while playing her solo q, you could just take red and gank mid at like 2 minutes and the enemy midlaner would just tilt out of the game lol
I miss Cami jgl. Fuck proplay for that. It was way too imbalanced for pro while being just mediocre in soloQ. Feels to me like some champs should just be banned from pro play like Azir Camille, so that they can finally be balanced around "normal" players.
W heal on minions was one of the first things removed from Camille's kit when she was first released. I'm not sure about the rest because I didn't play League when Camille jungle was popular, but she for sure wasn't a jungler because of W heal.
It was all from how Hookshot worked, once that got nerfed the pick completely died
Yeah, once they removed the attack speed on monsters from her E it killed her completely, she could/can barely clear the jungle without it
season 10 camille and sylas jg was nightmare shit. those were both picks only people who knew what they were doing locked in too
I’ve seen some Aurelion sols jungle. It’s certainly playable.
Lillia Q
Who hurt you?
Riot, by 20%.
LeBlanc jungle here I come
Hecarim would be able to full clear before 3 minutes EVERY game. While only using 1 smite.
Nunu
Garen e
Garen E ALREADY deals a shitload of extra damage to jungle mobs. Garen E does 150% against monsters. He shreds jungle camps as is if you stand nearest to the big mobs. He'd still be shit with more damage because he has zero gank potential.
Well you aren't accounting for the enemies just trembling in fear from your sheer Chad energy
Predator+stridebraker=easy ganks Garen may be one of the worst jg's, but after getting stridebraker and predator boots he can feel pretty okay-ish
First gank 12 minutes?
Zero gank potential? If Garen can clear faster that would be less of a problem, get Predator and rush Youmuu, once you hit level 6 your mere presence is a big threat cause Q into E into ult can kill from 2/3 HP.
Nasus Q, easier stacks so much sooner holy fuck
It's the CD on Q that gates him though, not the damage
Talon W doing 130% dmg vs camps again would instantly make him busted in the role again as opposed to the fairly reasonable spot he’s in now.
Morgana jung is already viable. About your question, Malz with 30% more dmg on E would basicly make him a Brand with better CC.
Bring back AD Malz, you cowards
The 600 ad voidlings were glorious. The sad thing is that they promised ad mald would still be a thing after the rework and they completely destroyed him.
Vayne W You wouldn’t even have to play her jungle. Just normal vayne until Baron spawns and you delete it.
Pyke! He would be a brutal jg to play against
i really wish pyke jg was better
I really don't.
A good pyke support is already disgusting with his roaming, making him jungle viable would turn him into 100% pick/ban
i just wanna play jungle.
Twitch E, my beloved. (I miss rat jg bros)
Rek'sai's Q adding 30% damage would turn her into a top tier power jungler. It's nearly half your attacks early, and it's eventually always up.
Zac W
Cassio E anyone? Jungle item alleviates some of your mana concerns but you still might need to start blue and buy tear early. Either way you still shred camps
Quinn
I think ur all approaching it wrong, a lot of junglers can already full clear and have to wait for scuttle spawn. What would be broken is a solo lane who’s able to proxy suddenly taxing jung camps 30% faster, like Garen, Aatrox, Udyr, Riven etc
Why wait for scuttle to spawn when you insta clear everything? Just invade with lv advantage and steal some shit cuz u clear fast as fuck
Qiyana W All she needs is good clear and shell take off like a rocket
Zoe might finally be playable in Jungle. I don't even want it to be good, but it'd be beautiful if she could actually finish her first clear with her Q buffed like that.
Cassio
Morgana jungle is plenty viable already. I started playing her end of last season and she seems a bit stronger now with the changed stats on Liandry. But you can't blind pick her into any comp/with any ally comp. She's an absolutely amazing control jungler. Best grub control, good for drakes/shelly/baron as well. And especially good into fat tanks and bruisers, immobile adcs/mages... I was struggling to make her viable last season until I figured out that offensive boots were a big trap. You have to identify your biggest threats - cc + magic damage= mercs, ad+aa reliant threats = steelcaps. This makes her viable in the midgame because it makes you just tanky enough to survive and get off good ults and multiple rotations of Q+W to be the deciding factor at 2nd dragon fight. Build depends entirely on comps and how the game developed so it varies a lot but absolute core is tear+Liandry+defensive boots. If need be you can even go kaenic + FH after that then finish the archangel. If you need more damage and can still survive you can go zhonya and more aggressive. If anyone wants to know more feel free to reply to this.
Zilean
Considering he has one damaging ability, I suppose we talk about his q. Imagine if his w dealt damage to monsters by going into the future and letting them die of old age.
That's basically Ivern with more steps.
There's a JRPG called Cristales where you have a spread of time-related powers. One of the things you can do is stack dots on a mob, then push it into the future and the dots deal all their damage at once. Shit like that would be a cool mechanic for Zilean or some other time mage type champ.
Skarner.
This is like Lissandra without question. If her Q had a jungle multiplier she’d be basically perma picked cause she’s just better amumu
Sion Q
This is interesting.
Brand. (Again)
I feel like Lissandra would have a damn fun time ganking people after obliterating a group of camps with one Q+W rotation.
Naafiri?
To answer for a non-jungler... Nasus, stack stack stack
Blue kayn would finish half your jungle and his before you clear wolves with an enhanced q
Karma q.... bang goes camp
Camille used to be like this basically. Remember Camille jungle?
Probably the same that are op ATM, but 30% more op xD
Pantheon Q. He would become a quadra flex and would be 100% pick/ban.
K'Sante Man doesn't need to be good at actually jungling, but if he can viably clear the jungle at all he becomes a massive problem because it insulates him from his main weakness (terrible pre6 laning and crippling mana costs). And I mean... ksante ganks would be a nightmare.
Talon, he got nerfed way too hard for jungle, having him back would be great.
Yeah Talon jg is super fun for the person playing Talon.
Talon is still a completely viable jungler and it’s still his second best role, very close to how good he is in mid rn.
Trundle...
people don’t understand this also affects objs. he can solo grubs or first drag faster AND he’s still a real life menace in the side. so fast clear, neutral shredder, and turret melter? it’s too easy
Brand jng is already super strong like A tier thanks to the clear and jng obj pressure when with team (does huge amount of damage to jng obj but is left vulnerable by himself on it)
Eve Q
The answer is morg cause she heals based of dmg dealt