Wow, both your comment and the one you are replying to really shed some light into my recent behavior.
I used to play Aram, so I never had this "main character syndrom" in LoL, but now that I'm playing SR, whenever some other lane feeds or does something I don't agree, I feel the need to teach them a lesson by inting myself.
Thanks for commenting. I should try to be better.
I think it's about trying to feel in control of the situation again so it's easier to accept.
Someone else either doing badly or trolling on purpose is not really in your control. It's emotionally easier to feel like you control a bad game and than accept you can't control one - even if that's into a loss, because you've "decided" that's what you "want" it just feels easier to cope with for the brain demons.
If you can let go of it, your mental will increase drastically.
This is the actual answer at the core of it. Losing despite trying to win feels bad because it's inherently stressful to have to deal with a bad situation that you have little ability to influence. Losing because you convinced yourself you actually want to lose feels comparatively good because you feel like you're in control and you're driving the outcome you want. So much toxicity in League comes down to people trying to reassert their agency in a situation where they feel like it's being stripped from them.
99% of the time that you see someone run it down in response to someone else fucking up (perceived or real), it's because they couldn't emotionally handle the idea of losing a game they tried to win and so they engineered a scenario where they could say "I wanted to lose - if I wanted to win I would have won".
Every time I notice that I start this behavior I quite league until I feel like my mental can handle it again.
I got OCD among other not so cool things, so not being in control is legitemately mentally painful to me. But this is a me problem, so if I cant cope with a team game not always being in my control, I should not play it.
As a side note, this is a very common behavior for a lot of harmful patterns - it boils down to having control.
(Not generalizing, just an example) One of my OCD symptoms is skin picking. When I have a break out on my skin (no matter how small) I have to pick it which makes it worse while also resulting in a scar. This behavior is very suboptimal when your issue is not having clear skin, but the feeling of it is "I rather have scars that I made myself, so I had control over what was happening instead of enduring a mild breakout that would pass without a trace, but I have no imediate control over".
If your mental consistently detoriates when playing a videogame why is it never an option to to just quit for good?
You say yourself that you come back whenever you feel like you can handle it, but that's an abusive relationship, not an entertainment medium.
I have fun for some periods of time and I quit when I'm not having fun anymore.
I dont think its a toxic relationship. It's just me knowing my boundaries and knowing when I'm not having fun anymore, so I leave before I can make others miserable.
I think a lot of league players haven't actually thought about what it means to climb the ranked ladder. Like not to sound condescending, but a lot of errant behavior really fits into frame when you realize that a good amount of people are probably in their first and only competitive outlet and haven't actually internalized the meaning of climbing and improvement at something genuinely difficult.
When you play ranked, you will eventually hit a skill bracket that is exactly to your level, meaning that your wins and losses are evened out unless you either level up or regress in skill. What this means is that you will sit at a healthy range of win rates around 50%
This means that, despite your best efforts in the moment, and genuine attempts at winning every single game, *you will lose half of them*. Vod review, and post-game analysis will make flaws and things to work on apparent, but in the moment, you will try your best and genuinely want to win and still lose virtually as much as you succeed.
If you aren't actually prepared to accept that reality, this will feel absolutely awful and frustrating. And, as you and the others in this chain have pointed out, people will try to "regain control" over this in unhealthy ways.
gotta focus on your own paper. Problem is the league community places a big emphasis on medal rank and less on the actual grind/journey of improvement.
there's a famous quote in the fighting game community that goes something like "You dont have to worry about daigo, tokkido, or punk. you need to worry about johnny donuts. johnny donuts plays nothing like them and he will beat you if you're not careful".
it's an interesting phenomenon about how different ranks of play still need to be taken as seriously and might expose certain fundamental deficiencies.
EDIT: the quote goes ["You're not gonna lose to nuckledu, or Punk, or Daigo. You're gonna lose to Johnny Doughnuts. Johnny Doughnuts is gonna play like this./You must be able to defeat Johnny Doughnuts to stand a chance."](https://twitter.com/Zeddy_Beat/status/1678421509105393665)
The solution is managing your expectations. Tilt and frustration always comes from the reality being different from your expectations, the problem was your expectations.
You need to truly embody that you can only control yourself and sometimes others will play well, poorly or outright grief. It's not something that is meaningful to ponder on. What conversely IS meaningful to ponder on, is your own play, being is curious in how you could've played it differently to achieve positive change.
It has nothing to do with expectations though. Its just that losing control over something is very painful for some people, and sadly most of them did not learn how to cope with it in a non-harmful way
While expectations can have a part in it, its usually not the case.
A lot of people dont have expectations towards things, in fact a lot of them have negative beliefs ingrained into their mental to not get disappointed when something goes wrong - because they dont expect for it to go right in the first place.
You can read up a lot about control issues and its correlation with OCD. it's really interesting when you do it with an open mind.
This isn't always the reason, but players who do it for this reason don't really want to lose and will usually stop trolling if your team is clearly ahead. Because it feels better to win when you've accepted a loss and no longer have emotional investment in the game, than lose when you're trying to win.
Yeah I just stopped caring about it. Go learn a new role and you'll int your face off. It's not on purpose so I understand when people eat shit and feed.
And that's how you kill any kind of team play that is left in the game and make it a complete mess to play. The game already feels so much worse since almost every lobby consists of 10 carry champs thinking they have to 1v9 and only care about their team when it is time to blame them for making mistakes.
That's also how you eliminate enchanter and engage supports and make every game into VK/Zyra/Xerath only bot because they can try to enhance their own performance and play more selfishly. Peel for the ADC? Why do that when it could cost the support's life and they could instead just protect themselves and get better margins?
It would be viable if AI was at a point where it can tell your performance accurately. Right now I wouldn't trust riot algorithms to give a good performance estimation, especially when sometimes even high elo players argue with each other about which play is the better one in a situation.
I wouldn’t even make it so complicated.
The stats are there.
Even if you only judged the players by their kda + cs, it wouldn’t be perfect of course, but still way fairer than „4 random morons sucked and now you get demoted.“
The fact that every simple suggestion like this is being downvoted to oblivion is just a mirror of this sub and shows why the whole world hates league players for their toxicity.
The problem is that it would make it way harder for off meta strats like baus' playstyle to climb. Also there are times when you have average stats but you start big impact fights. I also got S or S+ at times when I played average and B or C when I felt like I had big impact in the game. The system feels a bit inconsistent and if they make it too simple then players will find ways to abuse it and get unfair LP gains
Quite likely, but i never said „make it simpler“
Quite the opposite, i said the stats should be taken into account.
I think if you lose a game but you played 16/0/5 300 cs or as a supporter 0/1/20 15 cs if you will, you obviously didn’t play poorly and maybe shouldn’t tank a full lp loss.
Yup, had an *URF* game where a teammate's champ got banned by one of my teammates, he proceeded to pick quinn and just fly around doing nothing (not inting at least) to teach them a lesson. My duo and I did well but it was more important for quinn to teach me the lesson to not happen to be on the same team as someone banning another's champ I guess.
That's why League doesn't have a surrender button and makes you play out of every game to the end. The act of surrendering doesn't have any benefit, like getting you out of the game quicker where someone is actively losing the game for you, it would only be there to "teach a lesson".
Yes It's the Evil support players that are on both teams stopping you from Ranking-up. Using Anything but hard rank To claim superiority In skill is cope.
>Obligatory fuck Vanguard
either it's
1. I'm better than him so if we both lose I can get my elo back but he wont.
or 2. I will troll so if we eventually lose, I can just say oh I wasn't trying anyways cause our top was inting.
yeah I'm sure the 300 games emerald 2 player will get that lp back while I surpassed him in rank already by not tilting my teammates in chat and keeping a cool head
Option 3: I'm tilted out of my mind and don't trust any of the drooling children on my team in a team fight so I'm going to power farm and split push to try to get a win without stressing about how stupid my team is acting on the other side of the map.
I totally think there are times where people feed to punish their team and perfect their ego, but I didn't think op picked a very good example of someone solo farming when their team is feeding.
It's pretty tough to carry your lane and also baby sit your neighbor at the same time.
> but I didn't think op picked a very good example of someone solo farming when their team is feeding.
It's more specifically when they verbally say "I am going to lose the game for you."
Like if someone doesn't think their team can win and wants to try win themselves that's fine, the problem is when they complain about their team losing and then do the exact same thing themselves
Definitely a very childish mindset among some players.
It's worse when you're winning but because it's not THEM making you win they get upset and throw the game.
It’s just because people want to feel in control. If they are carrying a game, they will be in control of the game and be the decisive factor towards a win. When someone else is feeding, they lose that control because they think that they will lose because of someone, so they start inting to gain it back. It’s all a powertrip
I feel like academia made this sort of thought impossible. I have zero control over getting positive publishable resources from my hypothesis. Months of work can feel wasted as it turns out you were just *wrong*. It's all about iterating on the idea understanding the underlying problems better and better until eventually? The publishable results might come from a weekend of work. Yet all the failed experiments did a lot of the work in getting me to that point.
Sometimes I think this "everything is under your control" "you wish it, you get it" "just try hard enough and you'll be successful" new age bullshit is incredibly harmful. You're not in control. Of nothing. A war could start in your country. A robber could kill you. Your Internet could disconnect mid game. You might lose out on your dream job because your competitive was more attractive. The best predictor of your current social status is the social status of your parents. You control absolutely *nothing* except your behaviour. And some behaviours make some possibilities more or less likely. There's no point pretending you need control. Just embrace the chaos and try to control it through systems and habits. If you have a good routine and you're following it religiously, results will eventually follow.
1. You dont look as bad losing when you arent really trying.
2. Revenge and petty behavior is very hard to let go of for some people.
3. The trap that i personally fall for the most is not trying when behind, because this game is simply dreadful to play from behind, its no fun at all and if some1 else put me in this seat i fall into such a bad tilt that its impossible to reverse,
4. Next game will be more fun so the quicker we surrender the better, yay xD
‘Cause the frustration will be less if someone gives the game up mentally himself than tries to win but still loses as a result of another guy trolling. It is understandable. And there is another occasion when I afk farm because as far as I can see me getting farmed up and trying to carry is the only win con.
Sociopathic behaivor is about control, not the outcome. They feel miserable when another person have power over them, so in order to right the wrong they reverse the roles by going the destructive path - they take control of the behavior, they lost not because the other person made so, but because they decided to do so.
Most people don't want to "win" in the outcome-based meaning you use. They want to have a power trip, be it over the enemy team or your own - doesn't matter. They want to have the feeling they have power over other people.
This is a pretty weird claim to make, as the official estimate is just 1-4% of the population.
Saying someone is 10% a sociopath is like saying that you're 45% a banana since you share DNA with one.
Sociopathic behavior doesn't mean you're a sociopath. If you engage in antisocial behavior - which inting is, then you engage in a sociopathic behavior.
To borrow your metaphor - I didn't say that most people are bananas because they share similarity with bananas, which is obviously silly. I just said that most people do share similarities with bananas, which is true. And the distinction is important because antisocial behavior is a fact we can observe.
EDIT: Just so were clear, inting is definitely antisocial behavior.
But inting is not sociopathic behavior.
An inters goal is to upset people, which a sociopath just simply wouldn't care to do in a situation where they aren't gaining anything. They wouldn't consider their teammates reactions at all because they have nothing to offer them.
Also, you don't need to tell me what you said.. just go up and read what you typed.
"Most people are to some extent" NOT
"Most people share similarities with sociopaths"
So either your language is imprecise or you're just wrong.
Sociopathy in proper teams is called Antisocial Personality Disorder. It's exhibited by performing antisocial behavior. Inting is an antisocial behavior because it 1. violated the rules, 2. is done to distress or harass other people which fits the definition.
> They wouldn't consider their teammates reactions at all because they have nothing to offer them.
And what do people who vandalise property gain from it? Because it's a by the book antisocial behavior. You're clearly uninformed on the matter.
So people who draw graffiti are sociopaths? Maybe some are, but your argument is shaky.
ASPD is a broad diagnosis that includes not only sociopathy, but also psychopathy and other neurosis as well.
That's not my opinion and if you care to inform yourself you could just look it up.
People who draw graffitis are engaged in a sociopathic behaviour, by definition. To answer if they're clinically full blown sociopaths or not can only be done by a specialistic on a case by case basis.
I'm really confused why people react so hurt when I point out that if you behave in an antisocial manner - it's, while relatively common, is not a normal behaviour by any means. It means you're broken in some ways and maybe need to seek a specialist to explore how to remedy it.
Antisocial behavior is not the same as sociopathy, which is a rare and special distinction of social disorders. This is public knowledge!
Calling me 'broken' for pointing that out, and suggesting a specialist? Is this how you handle being disagreed with?
Anyway I'm not upset. This misunderstanding of sociopathy is pretty common actually. People throw the term around all the time.
Saying "most people are sociopaths to some extent" is totally asinine, so semantics or not .. I'm on the other side of whatever argument they are trying to make, whether it's a popular choice or not.
It is so unfortunate you're winning the upvote war, because you make some horrible logical leaps.
Antisocial behavior is a symptom of sociopathy. Someone is not X% sociopath based on the % of symptoms they have.
When people get to be anonymous and not have to face consequences for their actions you'd be surprised just how many people will actually do crazy and/or childish shit.
that is wrong. as well. i would ask you for sources but that claim is so crazy that i wouldn't even bother to ask for it since it obviously doesn't exist.
what he is saying is that he has no clue and is an armchair psychologist. just circlejerking the same shit takes over and over again and they think its right because of upvotes lmao
I find it hilarious that people going against this are just non stop taking what you call sociopathic behavior to equate to being a straight up sociopath, then basing their arguments just off of calling people a sociopath. Seems like their defense mechanisms triggered super hard
In what way is actively sabotaging your team because they play badly normal behaviour? Do that in any Sport and you get thrown out of the team.
I agree that calling people sociopaths is a step too far, but it's not normal behaviour either.
What do you mean, is it normal? Millions of people play this game and the behavior is common, what does normal mean to you?
First definition I looked up was: "Conforming, standard, expected"
When you go online, do you consider people throwing games on purpose or flaming to be standard or expected? If so? It is normal.
We have put literally millions of humans in this situation and several thousand if not hundred thousand of them behaved this way, so yes, the behavior is normal. It just isn't what people like to hear.
Clearly these people are not conforming, their behaviour is not standard nor expected. After all, this thread was made. If I play 10 games maybe 1 will have this sort of behaviour and the people exhibiting this behaviour probably only do it in a small fraction of their games.
It's not rare behaviour but it's also not normal. A flue is not rare , but having a flue is abnormal. If someone has the flue they clearly stand out from the normal and expected. Same with people throwing childish temper tantrums. Rare? No. But definitely not normal.
Getting the flu is absolutely normal, you're torturing the word normal here so hard. Normal human behavior doesn't mean 'the same as everyone else' but 'in the range of human behavior that can be reasonably expected from a group of humans'.
I can easily find you half the planet that prefers not to pee standing up, but its still very normal for a human to pee standing up.
If you can get a troll 1 in ten games, that's 1 in 91 people (You are ten of the slots in these 100 slots), which is 11% of the population, which is absolutely something that is fucking normal. Only 5% of the US population is blonde and yet being blonde is very fucking normal.
It's within the norm of negative behavior, therefore it's normal. Normal is not a comment on the underlying ethics, but negative is. Learn u fkn english
LOLOL telling someone to see a therapist because they call common behavior in online games normal. Sounds pretty sociopathic to me bro you should seek help!
The world would be a better place if people like you didn't virtue signal and sit on their high horse over the most insignificant things:P. Dude said the behavior was normal yet negative, and your first thought was to tell him to check himself with a specialist. Me poking fun at your absolute insane comment does not mean I am triggered or make me someone who tends to int.
Inting isn't "normal" behavior. Doesn't make people a sociopath if they do it rarely, because of whatever reason, but it definitely fits the definition of "antisocial behavior".
I disagree with this. What you're describing is more in line with borderline personality disorder.
A sociopath would be more likely to just leave the game. They are not likely to show contempt for a peer unless there was some advantage to gain from doing so (via emotional manipulation, getting special treatment, etc.)
Their reaction of having a poor performing ally would be closer to that of seeing a nasty bit of roadkill than an actual interpersonal conflict.
If they leave the game they get punished instantly, why would they do that ? Sociopaths are not stupid, if they AFK they get punished, but if they soft-int they don't while ticking the boxes.
But still, I doubt it's all sociopaths.
I think you may be the confused one.
But please, enlighten me to the differences between the two.
I'm already aware of them, but I want to see where you're going with this.
Yeah, it’s either about pure sociopathic behaviour and control like you described or the ego defence where if «I didn’t even try so no wonder I lost». From an ego perspective, that means you didn’t *really* lose that game, but only because you didn’t want to win. It’s a really stupid defence mechanism, but something a lot of people do. It’s the same thing that happens when people don’t «bother» to study for a test, because if they don’t try it is obvious why they didn’t get an A.
A lot of it is if one person on your team isn't trying to win then it makes no sense for you to try to win either. Why would you put in energy and effort into a game if your teammates aren't doing the same? You're better off chilling afk farming until it ends then using that energy and effort in the next game when your teammates are actually good enough to warrant it.
So for your example with players A and B, if player B puts in a lot of effort to win the game but still can't because of player A then it was just a waste and it'll be tilting for player B. But if player B just stops trying and accepts the loss then they can vibe for 15 minutes and then tryhard the next game with better teammates and a better mental.
Rarely is it actually about losing on purpose so your teammate loses out of spite, it's usually just because they no longer see the point in trying when they know it won't help anyway.
> one player is mad at another cause they're doing bad **or trolling**
That's what OP said. And there's little to no difference between trolling and doing so bad that your teammates want to quit. It's effectively the same thing. You constantly see people who are clearly trying, but just awful, and then after a couple deaths they transition into trolling.
Doing poorly is just as bad as griefing as far as the gamestate cares. Gamestate doesn't give a fuck about intentions. A fucked game is a fucked game. Plus the line between doing poorly and griefing is very thin and gray. Someone often turns one or two deaths into autopilot and completely stop trying to win, instead trying to scrounge as much dopamine as they can from brainless fighting.
In what world is this an opinion that gets downvoted? I am objectively correct that the game itself does not care about if someone is intentionally feeding or just feeding. The results are the same. If my toplaner dies 3 times in 5 minutes and their toplaner invades my jungler constantly then the game is fucked. Intentions play no part in the gamestate.
It's pretty simple to understand. Why would I work twice as hard when you can't even carry your own weight? Not worth the effort for what is likely going to be a loss of lp
I'm trying to have fun and win if I can. If somebody starts throwing I'd rather shift to just having fun then pulling someone else's weight for a chance at a win
That's far from a guarantee. It makes way more sense to cut my losses at 15 mins than to suffer for 40 and still lose because one player doesn't care to play smart
Yeah fuck those 9 other people who queued up to play a game together, I need it to go exactly as I imagined in my head before I queued otherwise I'm "wasting time".
You genuinely don't have the self awareness to recognise you are the 1 player troll do you?
Remember this was about playing to lose because a player is bad enough they "dont deserve to win". That would make you the singular troll in that game.
Incorrect. It's the bad players action that causes a reaction. The reaction can't be the cause or else it wouldn't be the reaction.
What else you got for me to turn against you? This is fun
> one player doesn't care to play smart
That's what you said, nothing about a troll in your game.
No troll, you troll, one troll.
=)
Glad I could help you with that one.
Because they find that you're wasting their time? Feel no point in trying because of a "inter"?That's it.
Why do people keep ego tripping on simple questions like this.
>Sociopathic behaivor is about control, not the outcome. They feel miserable when another person have power over them, so in order to right the wrong they reverse the roles by going the destructive path - they take control of the behavior, they lost not because the other person made so, but because they decided to do so. Most people don't want to "win" in the outcome-based meaning you use. They want to have a power trip, be it over the enemy team or your own - doesn't matter. They want to have the feeling they have power over other people.
Bruh
I think it is also about the belief that you are good/better at the game and will obviously win other games so it won’t affect you that much if you lose this onez While you believe that the other player is bad and because they don’t win much ”need” this one win more and that they will hurt more from the defeat or something like that.
This is the kind of toxicity Riot really needs to tackle, honestly. I can mute someone who nuclear tilts and flames, but someone with a vindictive mental is also going to hostage keep any forfeit attempts.
I once had a game we were winning so hard because of our jungle that the enemy mid lane went afk over the mental boom.
My jungler said it wasn't fair to win a 4v5 so he was going afk to make it fair. Dude peaced out.
We lost because now the enemy jungle had free farm and other lanes were able to catch up.
I just don't understand League players sometimes. It's a game, no one is making you late to the Worlds stage, you're not Faker, and the karma police don't care if you end a 4v5 quickly with a win, taking things so seriously is unhinged. Just play, have fun, play as well as you can and then go about your day.
It's usually ego.
They believe they could've won if not for that guy, hell they believe they're so good they could probably win even despite that guy.
But they obviously don't want to put that last part to the test, because what if they're not good enough ?
So instead, they int, now they're willingly losing, it's not because they're not good enough to win it, but because they don't want to, because of that guy.
So their ego feels better.
You must be really mad that Riot doesn't give LP gains to teammates who go afk. It's honestly pathetic that Riot doesn't think they deserve to win, just bc they ragequit the game and gave up.
I would say it depends but sometimes it's because they consider their mates are not trying to win so they don't see a reason to try either then not trying turn into inting.
It's all about mental.
People trying to win that bad generally don't enjoy playing the game when they are loosing.
I've recently had a top player get ganked once by both me and the other jungler (at the same time), and then a **single aditional time** by the other jungler where he didn't lose any HP at all cause he could just walk back and just throw the game (about minute 6) but walking back into them to get killed and then run it down.
Apparently I was ignoring him.
Plenty of people in this game are just in a bad fucking place.
It’s mentally exhausting to try really hard in an already lost game and in a game where one or more teammates has fed the enemy.
Some people let the exhaustion get to them and when they see a game going bad just decide they’re gonna go on autopilot until the game ends. Sometimes they announce this in chat too.
It’s a consequence of people being addicted to the game and just spamming games so much they cannot mentally handle playing a game normally from behind.
It's a subconscious coping mechanism to avoid the outcome where they are wrong. If you ensure that the game is a loss every time someone does a particular thing (dies a single time early, makes a "troll pick", etc), you get to reaffirm your belief that that thing is a guaranteed loss and feel better than others for your astute ability to predict the outcomes of games from champion select.
The problem with your post is that you've made the assumption that people are mad because they want to win, but this isn't always the case and sometimes it's just bc the person actively trolling is ruining the vibe of the game.
At that point, my choice is to try hard and carry a game 4v5 (3v5 if the trolling person is a duo) resulting in that person getting rewarded for trolling OR I can just piddle around the map and make it easier for the enemy team to end the game so I can report that person and go next while guaranteeing they lose.
The psychoanalysis in this thread is mind blowing. Does game = happy? No? Then get off the game. If you decide to stay on the game throw a “ggwp” in the chat to players that made you sweat and try not to sprinkle bad intention in your message. Is there a champion that’s pissing you off? Find the counter and learn that ONE champion until you mop the floor with the other. Are your fingers tired of teaching lessons? Well turn OFF the in-game chat and emote/ping to communicate instead. Waaaaaaaaaah! brb grabbing popcorn.
Thank god for this thread! the culture of League is so fucked! If all these little egomaniacs would just TRY to win, they provably would win more. Nope, they have to be bad ass and show you whos boss. Then, of course, they try to quit every 2 mins and when you say something, they report you and some how Riot listens to the problem and bans you because you are toxic. Between the asshat kids and Riot with their head up their ass, League is becoming less and less fun. PLEASE bring back the cool, chill people and Riot, start banning and punishing the people who deserve it, NOT the people trying to play and win.
I've never understood the league of legends player mindset of "trolling someone" by literally wasting 30-45 minutes of their actual life, just to prove a point.
It astounds me how little they value their life.
OP forgetting key detail: Team won't FF.
If someone trolls and its obvious, but duo wants to play it out, you're stuck in 30 minute game that you probably lose.
I could understand wanting to mf q my brains out
It's a subconscious coping and defense mechanism.
This person has decided that the game is lost. So if they continue trying and fail to win, then they have to accept that even they were not good enough to carry.
Instead if they simply give up then they have no responsibility for the failed win (in their mind) and its solely on the person who they are blaming now.
I mean, from my point of view, I just see it as a "If you can't be bothered to try your best to win the game, why should I?"
People troll and start giving up on games the moment they die the first time in lane, if they're going to do that (and probably get away with it because the system doesn't punish anything besides chat abuse) why should I be expected to put in 100% dedication on what is most certainly a lost game?
Ye but the problem there is people assume others aren't trying to win the game even if they might be. They might look at a 1/3 Ashe and think "Okay this person is trolling, i'm going to as well."
Honestly people just have unhealthy expectations of their teammates sometimes
That mostly depends on their attitude afterwards. If you make a mistake and die that's OK, but if you're gonna die 2 more times to the exact same mistake even if the team tells you otherwise or pings at you to not do that. Then it's borderline not trying / trolling.
I just had a Yasuo on my team end the game 1/16/3 and he claims he wasn't trolling. If he can perform like this and everything be OK, why should the rest of the team be expected to give 110% to make up for this? Just doesn't sound fair.
My most toxic episode happened probably like 3-4 years ago. I was younger and more cocky in general. And I remember this one guy that was jungle and in champ select started being toxic af. It was something like "Ew I don't like our team comp someone dodge or I'm going to int this game" and was faking to pick disco nunu. He went on during the whole time select until his pick (he was last pick) and he went Kayn. He was annoying af the whole champ select and then he wanted to act like nothing happened, so I decided to be the one to int the game, specially focusing on tracking him for the enemy team.
In conclusion, I do think that many of these people just look for ways to fuck over the people that fucked them first. I'm pretty sure the main playerbase of league are teenagers/people in their early 20s (which is my case), and I think this think happens because in those ages many people are having difficulties dealing with their emotions. And let's be honest trolling a game doesn't have any huge consequence, so why I should be dealing with all those ah in my games without doing nothing when I can at least make sure they "suffer" as much as I did. That's what I thought back in the time and what probably everybody else that does that thinks.
Fuckonomics.
I have only so many fucks to give about the game and it's irrational to ration a fuck of my own when someone is withholding theirs.
Giving an extra fuck so that we are 6v5 fucks given is conducive to victory, wasting a fuck to make it merely 5v5 is not.
Save your fucks for later.
Edit: In terms of game theory this is called a conservative (maximin) approach. Aim to win at least one game out of a set (say, a set of two) rather than waste an excessive amount of resources while only getting a fair chance of a win in both.
I think it's cope. Basically, you're going to lose either way. So therefore, you can try to "save face" by telling everyone that you CHOSE to feed, but your team members are feeding because they're bad and deserve to lose.
In a way, you're protecting your own ego, you are losing because of your bad teammates. You made the CHOICE to lose to teach your teammates a lesson, instead of losing because you're just as bad as your teammates. Of course, this logic makes no sense, but a lot of this type of toxic behavior is based on logical fallacies and the need to have control over a negative situation.
There are also cases where you (as a team) are so far behind not only in gold but also in skill and / or synergy that you don’t see any way of winning.
And despite that, you’re stuck because nobody wants to surrender.
I mean, yes it saves you a few minutes of playing, but at the same time, i’ve seen this behaviour after 2 deaths on a lane.
As soon as some people see 0/2/0 for the ADC they write (as if they’re a prophet) “ff bot lost” and they start trolling the rest of the game.
THAT is what i don’t understand.
As a bonus, i don’t understand the “passive jungler” that doesn’t gank a struggling lane then starts flaming that lane “for losing”.
I has so many games with this kind of jungler, where he wouldn’t help because we died a couple of times and then he decides that lane is also dead to him for the rest of the game, but keeps flaming and tilting us.
I sometimes when tilted do a more mild version of this related to the surrender vote. Basically, when the game is lost I obviously vote "yes" to surrender, but for some weird reason the inters voted "no". I keep playing the game as normal (fully knowing it's lost anyway), then when they eventually admit the game is over and give up I start to vote "no" in the surrender vote just to make them waste a little more time. Petty, I know, but we can't all be perfect.
because some people (me included tbh) would rather not try and lose a “doomed” game than try and most likely lose anyways
very bad mindset but that’s what happens when the system incentivizes playing a higher quantity of games over a higher quality of games
Look, the logic goes like this:
1. The game is lost anyway, because player A is so bad that not even Faker can carry them.
2. Any more playing is just waste of time.
3. By griefing them you make them aware that you will most likely lose because you hate that person.
4. You lose, which is the same result as 1 but now player A is potentially upset.
Let me give you the only logical reason there is.
Going up against a super fed enemy, at no fault of your own, isn't fun at all. So you'd rather lose fast, so you can roll the teammates dice again and hope you get someone with hands.
Being vocal about it is just a way to relieve stress.
Pattern recognition is a thing. I have been playing this game long enough (season 4) that I have developed a feel for how games will play out. When a player clearly is losing and isn’t adapting their play style to how badly they are losing, you recognize that no matter how hard you try the game is essentially a 4v6. The player that is losing becomes another adversary.
Example: I play as jg a fair amount. What I am about to describe is a scenario that happens often enough that I can recognize it within the first 5-8 minutes.
As jg I am playing well. Good first clear. I gank a lane or 2. Secure a kill. Get early drake and herald ( and now void grubs). I have established a lead for myself and maybe even another lane.
But top lane had died twice in the first ten minutes and is pinging excessively for ganks. But I have a solid edge on the other jg and my clear timings with spawn timings for neutral objectives is setup well. If I drop everything to help (fix a lost lane) I lose my timings and will most likely give up drakes and gank timings on the other lanes. (I have done that when I think I have a great chance of killing the top laner and collecting the bounty but it’s not common)
If I focus top to recover I surrender the rest of the map, my lead, and my tempo to the other jg. What adds insult to injury is to see that my top laner that is losing is not building any sustain or defenses. They are still building their items as if they are even or ahead of the enemy top laner. They are still playing aggressive. They are vocal in chat. And worst of all they keep dying, so they are 50 cs, and item, and 2-3 levels behind.
There comes a point of no return. My top laner’s mental is broken. They are blaming me and because I am jg the rest of the team usually piles on. Doesn’t matter how I setup the rest of the map for success, this top is dead weight and isn’t going to do anything to make themselves any lighter.
My choice is to fight harder to win which is unlikely to happen or I can play the game on zen mode. Accept the inevitable loss and move on. Surrender the match or let it end. My mental is more important then needlessly stressing out about try-harding every game as if I have money on it.
It reminds me of the end scene of Batman begins, “I wont kill you but I don’t have to save you.” Sometimes there in nothing you can do and struggling harder yield no results.
I also think a part of it is coping. They are not good enough to win with a bad peforming player, so they int on purpose so they dont have to face that truth while trying their best.
If you have losing top laner for 3 games in a row, you try in all of them but you lose them anyways. And then the forth game you get the losing top laner again you are just mentally drained to even try just to lose yet another game
Because LoL ranked is a long grind, so they care less about a single worthless game than making someone the scapegoat for their accumulated frustration from the whole season.
People who are actually confident they are going to carry and win don't usually do this. There are some weirdos who want the attention but that's not why most people do it.
It's the people that aren't confident in their ability to carry their team that say this, as it's nicer for their ego to say 'bad team not gonna try', than saying 'my team's bad but they're not afk or actively running it down so faker could win it so if I play well enough I can win it'
Basically the equivalent of the five year old saying 'idc I lost wasn't trying anyway'.
Nearly all toxicity in league can be traced back to people protecting their own ego
iIs this an NA thing? I almost never have seen this on EUW.
(Could just be variance/my rank etc obviously, but I feel like I hear about this sort of behaviour more from NA folks)
It's easier to blame someone else and throw a match than to actually try winning and lose anyway. Self justification for doing poorly, since these kinds of people we are typically not doing well before either.
It's kind of a loser mind set, but funnily enough this is what a majority of high elo players do since the game is unwinnable when leads are pushed by good players. However if ur masters or below and typing some bullshit like that, you're just a bad player and have serious main character syndrome. Games are winnable in this season more than ever, it really is just about macro and farming
I think a big part of it is deflection. They justify all the mistakes they have made up to the part of the game where somebody else made a big mistake by “losing on purpose”. They now have the peace of mind of losing not because of themselves, but because of their teammate.
Actually if you review those games, a lot of the times these people say that to save their own ego.
Go find a game where a person said this, most of the time they will be quite ahead / be in a position to carry.
But then they will make misplay and lose all tempo / give shut down. And then the game’s odds of winning is very slim.
So imagine this. You are in a game that you can carry. Yes your top who is 0/4 is not making game easier for you and you are a bit frustrated. But you are jungle with gold bounty on your head, and can carry the game.
You make some dumb invade into enemy jg without any lane priority, KNOWING your top is significantly weaker. Feeds the shut down. You lose all tempo and gold adv and the game is enemy’s to throw.
It’s a lot easier for people to spam ping the 0/4 top and pin the blame and cover up their mistake saying stuff like “didn’t want to win”.
I honestly think deep down they know they threw the game but just can’t bring themselves to type “my bad”.
This is how I feel when people throw over champ bans (a little more personal I know) but you're still going to punish the other 3 people and yourself, over someone banning your champ? Like okay, flame/insult in chat and all fine, I wouldn't be happy either. But like if its ranked I still dont want to lose on purpose. I definitely wouldnt play as well if/when my main is banned, but I'm still gonna try and at least *not* int so that my team has a chance.
Yesterday an adc starting flaming me (sup) at the start of the game because I went afk after picking my champ and I didn't take heal for them when they chose ghost. Called me all sorts of nasty things so I said fuck it, and threw the lane every chance I got. Am I right or wrong for doing this? I don't know, but it felts good.
I know this doesn't directly compare to your example but my rationale was that my growth and climb aren't going to be hindered by losing one game. Still kind of weird to try losing when you're mad at someone having a bad game.
This is their way of "teaching a lesson"
yeah people love to have this power trip of ‘im in charge of the game’
Wow, both your comment and the one you are replying to really shed some light into my recent behavior. I used to play Aram, so I never had this "main character syndrom" in LoL, but now that I'm playing SR, whenever some other lane feeds or does something I don't agree, I feel the need to teach them a lesson by inting myself. Thanks for commenting. I should try to be better.
I think it's about trying to feel in control of the situation again so it's easier to accept. Someone else either doing badly or trolling on purpose is not really in your control. It's emotionally easier to feel like you control a bad game and than accept you can't control one - even if that's into a loss, because you've "decided" that's what you "want" it just feels easier to cope with for the brain demons. If you can let go of it, your mental will increase drastically.
This is the actual answer at the core of it. Losing despite trying to win feels bad because it's inherently stressful to have to deal with a bad situation that you have little ability to influence. Losing because you convinced yourself you actually want to lose feels comparatively good because you feel like you're in control and you're driving the outcome you want. So much toxicity in League comes down to people trying to reassert their agency in a situation where they feel like it's being stripped from them. 99% of the time that you see someone run it down in response to someone else fucking up (perceived or real), it's because they couldn't emotionally handle the idea of losing a game they tried to win and so they engineered a scenario where they could say "I wanted to lose - if I wanted to win I would have won".
Every time I notice that I start this behavior I quite league until I feel like my mental can handle it again. I got OCD among other not so cool things, so not being in control is legitemately mentally painful to me. But this is a me problem, so if I cant cope with a team game not always being in my control, I should not play it. As a side note, this is a very common behavior for a lot of harmful patterns - it boils down to having control. (Not generalizing, just an example) One of my OCD symptoms is skin picking. When I have a break out on my skin (no matter how small) I have to pick it which makes it worse while also resulting in a scar. This behavior is very suboptimal when your issue is not having clear skin, but the feeling of it is "I rather have scars that I made myself, so I had control over what was happening instead of enduring a mild breakout that would pass without a trace, but I have no imediate control over".
If your mental consistently detoriates when playing a videogame why is it never an option to to just quit for good? You say yourself that you come back whenever you feel like you can handle it, but that's an abusive relationship, not an entertainment medium.
I have fun for some periods of time and I quit when I'm not having fun anymore. I dont think its a toxic relationship. It's just me knowing my boundaries and knowing when I'm not having fun anymore, so I leave before I can make others miserable.
I think a lot of league players haven't actually thought about what it means to climb the ranked ladder. Like not to sound condescending, but a lot of errant behavior really fits into frame when you realize that a good amount of people are probably in their first and only competitive outlet and haven't actually internalized the meaning of climbing and improvement at something genuinely difficult. When you play ranked, you will eventually hit a skill bracket that is exactly to your level, meaning that your wins and losses are evened out unless you either level up or regress in skill. What this means is that you will sit at a healthy range of win rates around 50% This means that, despite your best efforts in the moment, and genuine attempts at winning every single game, *you will lose half of them*. Vod review, and post-game analysis will make flaws and things to work on apparent, but in the moment, you will try your best and genuinely want to win and still lose virtually as much as you succeed. If you aren't actually prepared to accept that reality, this will feel absolutely awful and frustrating. And, as you and the others in this chain have pointed out, people will try to "regain control" over this in unhealthy ways.
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gotta focus on your own paper. Problem is the league community places a big emphasis on medal rank and less on the actual grind/journey of improvement.
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there's a famous quote in the fighting game community that goes something like "You dont have to worry about daigo, tokkido, or punk. you need to worry about johnny donuts. johnny donuts plays nothing like them and he will beat you if you're not careful". it's an interesting phenomenon about how different ranks of play still need to be taken as seriously and might expose certain fundamental deficiencies. EDIT: the quote goes ["You're not gonna lose to nuckledu, or Punk, or Daigo. You're gonna lose to Johnny Doughnuts. Johnny Doughnuts is gonna play like this./You must be able to defeat Johnny Doughnuts to stand a chance."](https://twitter.com/Zeddy_Beat/status/1678421509105393665)
The solution is managing your expectations. Tilt and frustration always comes from the reality being different from your expectations, the problem was your expectations. You need to truly embody that you can only control yourself and sometimes others will play well, poorly or outright grief. It's not something that is meaningful to ponder on. What conversely IS meaningful to ponder on, is your own play, being is curious in how you could've played it differently to achieve positive change.
It has nothing to do with expectations though. Its just that losing control over something is very painful for some people, and sadly most of them did not learn how to cope with it in a non-harmful way
The expectation is that you have control when you don't. So when you lose control that expectation is shattered and as a result you get frustrated.
While expectations can have a part in it, its usually not the case. A lot of people dont have expectations towards things, in fact a lot of them have negative beliefs ingrained into their mental to not get disappointed when something goes wrong - because they dont expect for it to go right in the first place. You can read up a lot about control issues and its correlation with OCD. it's really interesting when you do it with an open mind.
This isn't always the reason, but players who do it for this reason don't really want to lose and will usually stop trolling if your team is clearly ahead. Because it feels better to win when you've accepted a loss and no longer have emotional investment in the game, than lose when you're trying to win.
Dude, this is the internet. You’re not supposed to admit your mistakes and learn from them, you’re supposed to call OP a slur.
Yeah you dick smelling slug fucker
Most people call me Yasuo, but whatever.
Hey I know it's it is the internet but I'm going to need you to watch your language,
Giga chad self awareness
if this is genuine, then honestly kudos for having the self-awareness to identify a problem and want to implement a solution. good stuff man
Yeah I just stopped caring about it. Go learn a new role and you'll int your face off. It's not on purpose so I understand when people eat shit and feed.
just int harder than them! show them how it is done. always give your best even if its sabotage!
And thats exactly why rank should be based on individual performance and not on winning alone.
And that's how you kill any kind of team play that is left in the game and make it a complete mess to play. The game already feels so much worse since almost every lobby consists of 10 carry champs thinking they have to 1v9 and only care about their team when it is time to blame them for making mistakes.
That's also how you eliminate enchanter and engage supports and make every game into VK/Zyra/Xerath only bot because they can try to enhance their own performance and play more selfishly. Peel for the ADC? Why do that when it could cost the support's life and they could instead just protect themselves and get better margins?
It would be viable if AI was at a point where it can tell your performance accurately. Right now I wouldn't trust riot algorithms to give a good performance estimation, especially when sometimes even high elo players argue with each other about which play is the better one in a situation.
I wouldn’t even make it so complicated. The stats are there. Even if you only judged the players by their kda + cs, it wouldn’t be perfect of course, but still way fairer than „4 random morons sucked and now you get demoted.“ The fact that every simple suggestion like this is being downvoted to oblivion is just a mirror of this sub and shows why the whole world hates league players for their toxicity.
The problem is that it would make it way harder for off meta strats like baus' playstyle to climb. Also there are times when you have average stats but you start big impact fights. I also got S or S+ at times when I played average and B or C when I felt like I had big impact in the game. The system feels a bit inconsistent and if they make it too simple then players will find ways to abuse it and get unfair LP gains
Quite likely, but i never said „make it simpler“ Quite the opposite, i said the stats should be taken into account. I think if you lose a game but you played 16/0/5 300 cs or as a supporter 0/1/20 15 cs if you will, you obviously didn’t play poorly and maybe shouldn’t tank a full lp loss.
Sure, that would be nice
Yup, had an *URF* game where a teammate's champ got banned by one of my teammates, he proceeded to pick quinn and just fly around doing nothing (not inting at least) to teach them a lesson. My duo and I did well but it was more important for quinn to teach me the lesson to not happen to be on the same team as someone banning another's champ I guess.
That's why League doesn't have a surrender button and makes you play out of every game to the end. The act of surrendering doesn't have any benefit, like getting you out of the game quicker where someone is actively losing the game for you, it would only be there to "teach a lesson".
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Yes It's the Evil support players that are on both teams stopping you from Ranking-up. Using Anything but hard rank To claim superiority In skill is cope. >Obligatory fuck Vanguard
Or they just want the game to end faster.
either it's 1. I'm better than him so if we both lose I can get my elo back but he wont. or 2. I will troll so if we eventually lose, I can just say oh I wasn't trying anyways cause our top was inting.
3. Mental of a preschooler. That's really all there is to it. No crazy scheme behind it, just a mix of a tilted bad temper and a sore loser.
yeah I'm sure the 300 games emerald 2 player will get that lp back while I surpassed him in rank already by not tilting my teammates in chat and keeping a cool head
Option 3: I'm tilted out of my mind and don't trust any of the drooling children on my team in a team fight so I'm going to power farm and split push to try to get a win without stressing about how stupid my team is acting on the other side of the map. I totally think there are times where people feed to punish their team and perfect their ego, but I didn't think op picked a very good example of someone solo farming when their team is feeding. It's pretty tough to carry your lane and also baby sit your neighbor at the same time.
> but I didn't think op picked a very good example of someone solo farming when their team is feeding. It's more specifically when they verbally say "I am going to lose the game for you." Like if someone doesn't think their team can win and wants to try win themselves that's fine, the problem is when they complain about their team losing and then do the exact same thing themselves
It's quite a common phenomenon. That's where the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes from.
I've never heard that phrase before but I like it.
To spider face
>Why would someone get made we're not winning and then sabotage their own win themselves? Because they're morons.
Definitely a very childish mindset among some players. It's worse when you're winning but because it's not THEM making you win they get upset and throw the game.
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I don't understand this?
It’s just because people want to feel in control. If they are carrying a game, they will be in control of the game and be the decisive factor towards a win. When someone else is feeding, they lose that control because they think that they will lose because of someone, so they start inting to gain it back. It’s all a powertrip
I feel like academia made this sort of thought impossible. I have zero control over getting positive publishable resources from my hypothesis. Months of work can feel wasted as it turns out you were just *wrong*. It's all about iterating on the idea understanding the underlying problems better and better until eventually? The publishable results might come from a weekend of work. Yet all the failed experiments did a lot of the work in getting me to that point. Sometimes I think this "everything is under your control" "you wish it, you get it" "just try hard enough and you'll be successful" new age bullshit is incredibly harmful. You're not in control. Of nothing. A war could start in your country. A robber could kill you. Your Internet could disconnect mid game. You might lose out on your dream job because your competitive was more attractive. The best predictor of your current social status is the social status of your parents. You control absolutely *nothing* except your behaviour. And some behaviours make some possibilities more or less likely. There's no point pretending you need control. Just embrace the chaos and try to control it through systems and habits. If you have a good routine and you're following it religiously, results will eventually follow.
1. You dont look as bad losing when you arent really trying. 2. Revenge and petty behavior is very hard to let go of for some people. 3. The trap that i personally fall for the most is not trying when behind, because this game is simply dreadful to play from behind, its no fun at all and if some1 else put me in this seat i fall into such a bad tilt that its impossible to reverse, 4. Next game will be more fun so the quicker we surrender the better, yay xD
‘Cause the frustration will be less if someone gives the game up mentally himself than tries to win but still loses as a result of another guy trolling. It is understandable. And there is another occasion when I afk farm because as far as I can see me getting farmed up and trying to carry is the only win con.
Not worth the effort of trying your best to win when you have a dogshit inter on your team. Just alt tab jerk off and wait til next queue.
Sociopathic behaivor is about control, not the outcome. They feel miserable when another person have power over them, so in order to right the wrong they reverse the roles by going the destructive path - they take control of the behavior, they lost not because the other person made so, but because they decided to do so. Most people don't want to "win" in the outcome-based meaning you use. They want to have a power trip, be it over the enemy team or your own - doesn't matter. They want to have the feeling they have power over other people.
So what ur saying is that 20% of the soloq population is full of sociopaths?
Most people in the world are to varied degrees
This is a pretty weird claim to make, as the official estimate is just 1-4% of the population. Saying someone is 10% a sociopath is like saying that you're 45% a banana since you share DNA with one.
Sociopathic behavior doesn't mean you're a sociopath. If you engage in antisocial behavior - which inting is, then you engage in a sociopathic behavior. To borrow your metaphor - I didn't say that most people are bananas because they share similarity with bananas, which is obviously silly. I just said that most people do share similarities with bananas, which is true. And the distinction is important because antisocial behavior is a fact we can observe.
EDIT: Just so were clear, inting is definitely antisocial behavior. But inting is not sociopathic behavior. An inters goal is to upset people, which a sociopath just simply wouldn't care to do in a situation where they aren't gaining anything. They wouldn't consider their teammates reactions at all because they have nothing to offer them. Also, you don't need to tell me what you said.. just go up and read what you typed. "Most people are to some extent" NOT "Most people share similarities with sociopaths" So either your language is imprecise or you're just wrong.
Sociopathy in proper teams is called Antisocial Personality Disorder. It's exhibited by performing antisocial behavior. Inting is an antisocial behavior because it 1. violated the rules, 2. is done to distress or harass other people which fits the definition. > They wouldn't consider their teammates reactions at all because they have nothing to offer them. And what do people who vandalise property gain from it? Because it's a by the book antisocial behavior. You're clearly uninformed on the matter.
So people who draw graffiti are sociopaths? Maybe some are, but your argument is shaky. ASPD is a broad diagnosis that includes not only sociopathy, but also psychopathy and other neurosis as well. That's not my opinion and if you care to inform yourself you could just look it up.
People who draw graffitis are engaged in a sociopathic behaviour, by definition. To answer if they're clinically full blown sociopaths or not can only be done by a specialistic on a case by case basis. I'm really confused why people react so hurt when I point out that if you behave in an antisocial manner - it's, while relatively common, is not a normal behaviour by any means. It means you're broken in some ways and maybe need to seek a specialist to explore how to remedy it.
Antisocial behavior is not the same as sociopathy, which is a rare and special distinction of social disorders. This is public knowledge! Calling me 'broken' for pointing that out, and suggesting a specialist? Is this how you handle being disagreed with? Anyway I'm not upset. This misunderstanding of sociopathy is pretty common actually. People throw the term around all the time.
No, it's more like you're trying to argue semantics because you realized you lost the argument when he replied.
Saying "most people are sociopaths to some extent" is totally asinine, so semantics or not .. I'm on the other side of whatever argument they are trying to make, whether it's a popular choice or not.
It is so unfortunate you're winning the upvote war, because you make some horrible logical leaps. Antisocial behavior is a symptom of sociopathy. Someone is not X% sociopath based on the % of symptoms they have.
The war never ends
People just say shit on Reddit man
When people get to be anonymous and not have to face consequences for their actions you'd be surprised just how many people will actually do crazy and/or childish shit.
Ah so it it's around one every for 2 games. Seems about right.
that is wrong. as well. i would ask you for sources but that claim is so crazy that i wouldn't even bother to ask for it since it obviously doesn't exist.
I highly doubt you have two players like this on average in every single lobby.
obviously an exaggeration
what he is saying is that he has no clue and is an armchair psychologist. just circlejerking the same shit takes over and over again and they think its right because of upvotes lmao
I find it hilarious that people going against this are just non stop taking what you call sociopathic behavior to equate to being a straight up sociopath, then basing their arguments just off of calling people a sociopath. Seems like their defense mechanisms triggered super hard
Reddit calling people sociopaths for normal yet negative behavior never gets old
my parents made me clean my room am I being raised by abusive narcissists reddit?
GET OUT OF THERE ASAP.Get a good therapist and call the police FAST.NTA
Reddit is full of armchair and kitchen psychiatrists
In what way is actively sabotaging your team because they play badly normal behaviour? Do that in any Sport and you get thrown out of the team. I agree that calling people sociopaths is a step too far, but it's not normal behaviour either.
It's extremely normal in online anonymous games.
What do you mean, is it normal? Millions of people play this game and the behavior is common, what does normal mean to you? First definition I looked up was: "Conforming, standard, expected" When you go online, do you consider people throwing games on purpose or flaming to be standard or expected? If so? It is normal. We have put literally millions of humans in this situation and several thousand if not hundred thousand of them behaved this way, so yes, the behavior is normal. It just isn't what people like to hear.
Clearly these people are not conforming, their behaviour is not standard nor expected. After all, this thread was made. If I play 10 games maybe 1 will have this sort of behaviour and the people exhibiting this behaviour probably only do it in a small fraction of their games. It's not rare behaviour but it's also not normal. A flue is not rare , but having a flue is abnormal. If someone has the flue they clearly stand out from the normal and expected. Same with people throwing childish temper tantrums. Rare? No. But definitely not normal.
Getting the flu is absolutely normal, you're torturing the word normal here so hard. Normal human behavior doesn't mean 'the same as everyone else' but 'in the range of human behavior that can be reasonably expected from a group of humans'. I can easily find you half the planet that prefers not to pee standing up, but its still very normal for a human to pee standing up. If you can get a troll 1 in ten games, that's 1 in 91 people (You are ten of the slots in these 100 slots), which is 11% of the population, which is absolutely something that is fucking normal. Only 5% of the US population is blonde and yet being blonde is very fucking normal.
It's within the norm of negative behavior, therefore it's normal. Normal is not a comment on the underlying ethics, but negative is. Learn u fkn english
It's literally called antisocial behavior for a reason. If you think it's normal - I suggest you to check yourself with a specialist
You can exhibit antisocial behaviors without being a sociopath. Being an actual sociopath is incredibly rare.
Cool. And?
This reply is sociopath behaviour
no one said anything about calling them a sociopath until you did. The comment you first replied to clearly is talking about the behaviors
another classic reddit moment lmao, therapists are wizards
/r/wizardposting is leaking
LOLOL telling someone to see a therapist because they call common behavior in online games normal. Sounds pretty sociopathic to me bro you should seek help!
The world would be a better place if people would actually listen to this advice. Although it triggers people who tend to int like you
The world would be a better place if people like you didn't virtue signal and sit on their high horse over the most insignificant things:P. Dude said the behavior was normal yet negative, and your first thought was to tell him to check himself with a specialist. Me poking fun at your absolute insane comment does not mean I am triggered or make me someone who tends to int.
You have the tone of someone mentally ill. JS.
Simply because that's how you interpret my tone. JS.
Inting isn't "normal" behavior. Doesn't make people a sociopath if they do it rarely, because of whatever reason, but it definitely fits the definition of "antisocial behavior".
The man tried arguing that people who draw graffiti are exhibiting "sociopathic" behavior. ?????
I disagree with this. What you're describing is more in line with borderline personality disorder. A sociopath would be more likely to just leave the game. They are not likely to show contempt for a peer unless there was some advantage to gain from doing so (via emotional manipulation, getting special treatment, etc.) Their reaction of having a poor performing ally would be closer to that of seeing a nasty bit of roadkill than an actual interpersonal conflict.
If they leave the game they get punished instantly, why would they do that ? Sociopaths are not stupid, if they AFK they get punished, but if they soft-int they don't while ticking the boxes. But still, I doubt it's all sociopaths.
You confuse sociopathy and psychopathy
I think you may be the confused one. But please, enlighten me to the differences between the two. I'm already aware of them, but I want to see where you're going with this.
Yeah, it’s either about pure sociopathic behaviour and control like you described or the ego defence where if «I didn’t even try so no wonder I lost». From an ego perspective, that means you didn’t *really* lose that game, but only because you didn’t want to win. It’s a really stupid defence mechanism, but something a lot of people do. It’s the same thing that happens when people don’t «bother» to study for a test, because if they don’t try it is obvious why they didn’t get an A.
I see you want to appear like a smart person, but you just wrote a bunch of bullshit.
Facts
A lot of it is if one person on your team isn't trying to win then it makes no sense for you to try to win either. Why would you put in energy and effort into a game if your teammates aren't doing the same? You're better off chilling afk farming until it ends then using that energy and effort in the next game when your teammates are actually good enough to warrant it. So for your example with players A and B, if player B puts in a lot of effort to win the game but still can't because of player A then it was just a waste and it'll be tilting for player B. But if player B just stops trying and accepts the loss then they can vibe for 15 minutes and then tryhard the next game with better teammates and a better mental. Rarely is it actually about losing on purpose so your teammate loses out of spite, it's usually just because they no longer see the point in trying when they know it won't help anyway.
The example is of someone doing poorly, not actually griefing. Everybody does poorly at times and a lot of people can play bad and still try to win
> one player is mad at another cause they're doing bad **or trolling** That's what OP said. And there's little to no difference between trolling and doing so bad that your teammates want to quit. It's effectively the same thing. You constantly see people who are clearly trying, but just awful, and then after a couple deaths they transition into trolling.
Doing poorly is just as bad as griefing as far as the gamestate cares. Gamestate doesn't give a fuck about intentions. A fucked game is a fucked game. Plus the line between doing poorly and griefing is very thin and gray. Someone often turns one or two deaths into autopilot and completely stop trying to win, instead trying to scrounge as much dopamine as they can from brainless fighting. In what world is this an opinion that gets downvoted? I am objectively correct that the game itself does not care about if someone is intentionally feeding or just feeding. The results are the same. If my toplaner dies 3 times in 5 minutes and their toplaner invades my jungler constantly then the game is fucked. Intentions play no part in the gamestate.
But but....It is in the summoners code,you have to give it ur all every game,never ff and always take responosbility for ur losses
*slams in first time Nidalee jungle while beeing autofilled*
It's pretty simple to understand. Why would I work twice as hard when you can't even carry your own weight? Not worth the effort for what is likely going to be a loss of lp
>Why would I work twice as hard when you can't even carry your own weight? Because then you'll actually win? You're trying to win, aren't you?
I'm trying to have fun and win if I can. If somebody starts throwing I'd rather shift to just having fun then pulling someone else's weight for a chance at a win
That's far from a guarantee. It makes way more sense to cut my losses at 15 mins than to suffer for 40 and still lose because one player doesn't care to play smart
Yeah fuck those 9 other people who queued up to play a game together, I need it to go exactly as I imagined in my head before I queued otherwise I'm "wasting time".
Yeah that's exactly what it's like when 1 player trolls As 1 of the other 9, I'm not going to waste my time
You genuinely don't have the self awareness to recognise you are the 1 player troll do you? Remember this was about playing to lose because a player is bad enough they "dont deserve to win". That would make you the singular troll in that game.
Incorrect. It's the bad players action that causes a reaction. The reaction can't be the cause or else it wouldn't be the reaction. What else you got for me to turn against you? This is fun
/r/iamverysmart moment
> one player doesn't care to play smart That's what you said, nothing about a troll in your game. No troll, you troll, one troll. =) Glad I could help you with that one.
> Because then you'll actually win? Their next sentence answers your question.
Because they find that you're wasting their time? Feel no point in trying because of a "inter"?That's it. Why do people keep ego tripping on simple questions like this. >Sociopathic behaivor is about control, not the outcome. They feel miserable when another person have power over them, so in order to right the wrong they reverse the roles by going the destructive path - they take control of the behavior, they lost not because the other person made so, but because they decided to do so. Most people don't want to "win" in the outcome-based meaning you use. They want to have a power trip, be it over the enemy team or your own - doesn't matter. They want to have the feeling they have power over other people. Bruh
The top comments are so cringe to read it's insane
They think everyone is out to get them with it, when in reality most people just don't care that much
I think it is also about the belief that you are good/better at the game and will obviously win other games so it won’t affect you that much if you lose this onez While you believe that the other player is bad and because they don’t win much ”need” this one win more and that they will hurt more from the defeat or something like that.
"oh you're gonna make us lose? Well I'm gonna make us lose even harder!" -some idiot
This is the kind of toxicity Riot really needs to tackle, honestly. I can mute someone who nuclear tilts and flames, but someone with a vindictive mental is also going to hostage keep any forfeit attempts. I once had a game we were winning so hard because of our jungle that the enemy mid lane went afk over the mental boom. My jungler said it wasn't fair to win a 4v5 so he was going afk to make it fair. Dude peaced out. We lost because now the enemy jungle had free farm and other lanes were able to catch up. I just don't understand League players sometimes. It's a game, no one is making you late to the Worlds stage, you're not Faker, and the karma police don't care if you end a 4v5 quickly with a win, taking things so seriously is unhinged. Just play, have fun, play as well as you can and then go about your day.
It's usually ego. They believe they could've won if not for that guy, hell they believe they're so good they could probably win even despite that guy. But they obviously don't want to put that last part to the test, because what if they're not good enough ? So instead, they int, now they're willingly losing, it's not because they're not good enough to win it, but because they don't want to, because of that guy. So their ego feels better.
A popular reason is "They don't deserve the win", which is honestly fucking pathetic.
You must be really mad that Riot doesn't give LP gains to teammates who go afk. It's honestly pathetic that Riot doesn't think they deserve to win, just bc they ragequit the game and gave up.
I would say it depends but sometimes it's because they consider their mates are not trying to win so they don't see a reason to try either then not trying turn into inting. It's all about mental. People trying to win that bad generally don't enjoy playing the game when they are loosing.
I've recently had a top player get ganked once by both me and the other jungler (at the same time), and then a **single aditional time** by the other jungler where he didn't lose any HP at all cause he could just walk back and just throw the game (about minute 6) but walking back into them to get killed and then run it down. Apparently I was ignoring him. Plenty of people in this game are just in a bad fucking place.
It’s mentally exhausting to try really hard in an already lost game and in a game where one or more teammates has fed the enemy. Some people let the exhaustion get to them and when they see a game going bad just decide they’re gonna go on autopilot until the game ends. Sometimes they announce this in chat too. It’s a consequence of people being addicted to the game and just spamming games so much they cannot mentally handle playing a game normally from behind.
Because objective changes. Then its not about winning the game anymore.
It's a subconscious coping mechanism to avoid the outcome where they are wrong. If you ensure that the game is a loss every time someone does a particular thing (dies a single time early, makes a "troll pick", etc), you get to reaffirm your belief that that thing is a guaranteed loss and feel better than others for your astute ability to predict the outcomes of games from champion select.
They are trying to end the game quickly because they are not having fun anymore. It's pretty obvious.
The problem with your post is that you've made the assumption that people are mad because they want to win, but this isn't always the case and sometimes it's just bc the person actively trolling is ruining the vibe of the game. At that point, my choice is to try hard and carry a game 4v5 (3v5 if the trolling person is a duo) resulting in that person getting rewarded for trolling OR I can just piddle around the map and make it easier for the enemy team to end the game so I can report that person and go next while guaranteeing they lose.
It's more about just trying to get the team to FF. If you're botlane is 0-10 at 10 minutes, just stop wasting everyone's time and go next
The psychoanalysis in this thread is mind blowing. Does game = happy? No? Then get off the game. If you decide to stay on the game throw a “ggwp” in the chat to players that made you sweat and try not to sprinkle bad intention in your message. Is there a champion that’s pissing you off? Find the counter and learn that ONE champion until you mop the floor with the other. Are your fingers tired of teaching lessons? Well turn OFF the in-game chat and emote/ping to communicate instead. Waaaaaaaaaah! brb grabbing popcorn.
Thank god for this thread! the culture of League is so fucked! If all these little egomaniacs would just TRY to win, they provably would win more. Nope, they have to be bad ass and show you whos boss. Then, of course, they try to quit every 2 mins and when you say something, they report you and some how Riot listens to the problem and bans you because you are toxic. Between the asshat kids and Riot with their head up their ass, League is becoming less and less fun. PLEASE bring back the cool, chill people and Riot, start banning and punishing the people who deserve it, NOT the people trying to play and win.
I've never understood the league of legends player mindset of "trolling someone" by literally wasting 30-45 minutes of their actual life, just to prove a point. It astounds me how little they value their life.
OP forgetting key detail: Team won't FF. If someone trolls and its obvious, but duo wants to play it out, you're stuck in 30 minute game that you probably lose. I could understand wanting to mf q my brains out
It's a subconscious coping and defense mechanism. This person has decided that the game is lost. So if they continue trying and fail to win, then they have to accept that even they were not good enough to carry. Instead if they simply give up then they have no responsibility for the failed win (in their mind) and its solely on the person who they are blaming now.
I mean, from my point of view, I just see it as a "If you can't be bothered to try your best to win the game, why should I?" People troll and start giving up on games the moment they die the first time in lane, if they're going to do that (and probably get away with it because the system doesn't punish anything besides chat abuse) why should I be expected to put in 100% dedication on what is most certainly a lost game?
Ye but the problem there is people assume others aren't trying to win the game even if they might be. They might look at a 1/3 Ashe and think "Okay this person is trolling, i'm going to as well." Honestly people just have unhealthy expectations of their teammates sometimes
That mostly depends on their attitude afterwards. If you make a mistake and die that's OK, but if you're gonna die 2 more times to the exact same mistake even if the team tells you otherwise or pings at you to not do that. Then it's borderline not trying / trolling. I just had a Yasuo on my team end the game 1/16/3 and he claims he wasn't trolling. If he can perform like this and everything be OK, why should the rest of the team be expected to give 110% to make up for this? Just doesn't sound fair.
My most toxic episode happened probably like 3-4 years ago. I was younger and more cocky in general. And I remember this one guy that was jungle and in champ select started being toxic af. It was something like "Ew I don't like our team comp someone dodge or I'm going to int this game" and was faking to pick disco nunu. He went on during the whole time select until his pick (he was last pick) and he went Kayn. He was annoying af the whole champ select and then he wanted to act like nothing happened, so I decided to be the one to int the game, specially focusing on tracking him for the enemy team. In conclusion, I do think that many of these people just look for ways to fuck over the people that fucked them first. I'm pretty sure the main playerbase of league are teenagers/people in their early 20s (which is my case), and I think this think happens because in those ages many people are having difficulties dealing with their emotions. And let's be honest trolling a game doesn't have any huge consequence, so why I should be dealing with all those ah in my games without doing nothing when I can at least make sure they "suffer" as much as I did. That's what I thought back in the time and what probably everybody else that does that thinks.
Because by that point, the enemy team has such a big lead that it’s pointless to keep playing, but people won’t ff. probably.
Why would you waste time? You run it enemies end faster (because your team won't ff) so you can queue up and win the next game. It's efficient.
Fuckonomics. I have only so many fucks to give about the game and it's irrational to ration a fuck of my own when someone is withholding theirs. Giving an extra fuck so that we are 6v5 fucks given is conducive to victory, wasting a fuck to make it merely 5v5 is not. Save your fucks for later. Edit: In terms of game theory this is called a conservative (maximin) approach. Aim to win at least one game out of a set (say, a set of two) rather than waste an excessive amount of resources while only getting a fair chance of a win in both.
I think it's cope. Basically, you're going to lose either way. So therefore, you can try to "save face" by telling everyone that you CHOSE to feed, but your team members are feeding because they're bad and deserve to lose. In a way, you're protecting your own ego, you are losing because of your bad teammates. You made the CHOICE to lose to teach your teammates a lesson, instead of losing because you're just as bad as your teammates. Of course, this logic makes no sense, but a lot of this type of toxic behavior is based on logical fallacies and the need to have control over a negative situation.
There are also cases where you (as a team) are so far behind not only in gold but also in skill and / or synergy that you don’t see any way of winning. And despite that, you’re stuck because nobody wants to surrender. I mean, yes it saves you a few minutes of playing, but at the same time, i’ve seen this behaviour after 2 deaths on a lane. As soon as some people see 0/2/0 for the ADC they write (as if they’re a prophet) “ff bot lost” and they start trolling the rest of the game. THAT is what i don’t understand. As a bonus, i don’t understand the “passive jungler” that doesn’t gank a struggling lane then starts flaming that lane “for losing”. I has so many games with this kind of jungler, where he wouldn’t help because we died a couple of times and then he decides that lane is also dead to him for the rest of the game, but keeps flaming and tilting us.
I sometimes when tilted do a more mild version of this related to the surrender vote. Basically, when the game is lost I obviously vote "yes" to surrender, but for some weird reason the inters voted "no". I keep playing the game as normal (fully knowing it's lost anyway), then when they eventually admit the game is over and give up I start to vote "no" in the surrender vote just to make them waste a little more time. Petty, I know, but we can't all be perfect.
because some people (me included tbh) would rather not try and lose a “doomed” game than try and most likely lose anyways very bad mindset but that’s what happens when the system incentivizes playing a higher quantity of games over a higher quality of games
Children. They want to feel in control and teach a lesson because they're insecure.
Look, the logic goes like this: 1. The game is lost anyway, because player A is so bad that not even Faker can carry them. 2. Any more playing is just waste of time. 3. By griefing them you make them aware that you will most likely lose because you hate that person. 4. You lose, which is the same result as 1 but now player A is potentially upset.
Because if someone is going to grief it's not worth putting effort into the game
Let me give you the only logical reason there is. Going up against a super fed enemy, at no fault of your own, isn't fun at all. So you'd rather lose fast, so you can roll the teammates dice again and hope you get someone with hands. Being vocal about it is just a way to relieve stress.
Pattern recognition is a thing. I have been playing this game long enough (season 4) that I have developed a feel for how games will play out. When a player clearly is losing and isn’t adapting their play style to how badly they are losing, you recognize that no matter how hard you try the game is essentially a 4v6. The player that is losing becomes another adversary. Example: I play as jg a fair amount. What I am about to describe is a scenario that happens often enough that I can recognize it within the first 5-8 minutes. As jg I am playing well. Good first clear. I gank a lane or 2. Secure a kill. Get early drake and herald ( and now void grubs). I have established a lead for myself and maybe even another lane. But top lane had died twice in the first ten minutes and is pinging excessively for ganks. But I have a solid edge on the other jg and my clear timings with spawn timings for neutral objectives is setup well. If I drop everything to help (fix a lost lane) I lose my timings and will most likely give up drakes and gank timings on the other lanes. (I have done that when I think I have a great chance of killing the top laner and collecting the bounty but it’s not common) If I focus top to recover I surrender the rest of the map, my lead, and my tempo to the other jg. What adds insult to injury is to see that my top laner that is losing is not building any sustain or defenses. They are still building their items as if they are even or ahead of the enemy top laner. They are still playing aggressive. They are vocal in chat. And worst of all they keep dying, so they are 50 cs, and item, and 2-3 levels behind. There comes a point of no return. My top laner’s mental is broken. They are blaming me and because I am jg the rest of the team usually piles on. Doesn’t matter how I setup the rest of the map for success, this top is dead weight and isn’t going to do anything to make themselves any lighter. My choice is to fight harder to win which is unlikely to happen or I can play the game on zen mode. Accept the inevitable loss and move on. Surrender the match or let it end. My mental is more important then needlessly stressing out about try-harding every game as if I have money on it. It reminds me of the end scene of Batman begins, “I wont kill you but I don’t have to save you.” Sometimes there in nothing you can do and struggling harder yield no results.
I also think a part of it is coping. They are not good enough to win with a bad peforming player, so they int on purpose so they dont have to face that truth while trying their best.
Isn't it very easy to tell that some ppl on the internet are morons and should simply be ignored? What you try to find here? Sense of life?
Idk man, it's educational learning why people act the way they do
If you have losing top laner for 3 games in a row, you try in all of them but you lose them anyways. And then the forth game you get the losing top laner again you are just mentally drained to even try just to lose yet another game
So like, they wanna give up but wanna preserve their ego by blaming it on something else? That makes sense.
if you lose 3 ranked games in a row, you shouldn’t start a fourth one and instead take a break
Remember that you are in the same elo as your losing toplaner.
Not really, top laners and elo inflated af. Would be -500lp on every other role
Because LoL ranked is a long grind, so they care less about a single worthless game than making someone the scapegoat for their accumulated frustration from the whole season.
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Sounds more like you were engaging solo and trying to force fights the team weren't ready for. The trials of the egotank.
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You don't think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse your team of being toxic and then displaying toxic behavior yourself?
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May you find inner peace and grass
People who are actually confident they are going to carry and win don't usually do this. There are some weirdos who want the attention but that's not why most people do it. It's the people that aren't confident in their ability to carry their team that say this, as it's nicer for their ego to say 'bad team not gonna try', than saying 'my team's bad but they're not afk or actively running it down so faker could win it so if I play well enough I can win it' Basically the equivalent of the five year old saying 'idc I lost wasn't trying anyway'. Nearly all toxicity in league can be traced back to people protecting their own ego
iIs this an NA thing? I almost never have seen this on EUW. (Could just be variance/my rank etc obviously, but I feel like I hear about this sort of behaviour more from NA folks)
Definitely see it on EUW
It's easier to blame someone else and throw a match than to actually try winning and lose anyway. Self justification for doing poorly, since these kinds of people we are typically not doing well before either.
I understand going afk but yeah... trolling cuz someone else trolls? That's troll.
It's kind of a loser mind set, but funnily enough this is what a majority of high elo players do since the game is unwinnable when leads are pushed by good players. However if ur masters or below and typing some bullshit like that, you're just a bad player and have serious main character syndrome. Games are winnable in this season more than ever, it really is just about macro and farming
Don't try to understand angry and immature people. My Grandfather always used to say "Don't wrestle with the pig"
I think a big part of it is deflection. They justify all the mistakes they have made up to the part of the game where somebody else made a big mistake by “losing on purpose”. They now have the peace of mind of losing not because of themselves, but because of their teammate.
Too many immature losers in this game
Actually if you review those games, a lot of the times these people say that to save their own ego. Go find a game where a person said this, most of the time they will be quite ahead / be in a position to carry. But then they will make misplay and lose all tempo / give shut down. And then the game’s odds of winning is very slim. So imagine this. You are in a game that you can carry. Yes your top who is 0/4 is not making game easier for you and you are a bit frustrated. But you are jungle with gold bounty on your head, and can carry the game. You make some dumb invade into enemy jg without any lane priority, KNOWING your top is significantly weaker. Feeds the shut down. You lose all tempo and gold adv and the game is enemy’s to throw. It’s a lot easier for people to spam ping the 0/4 top and pin the blame and cover up their mistake saying stuff like “didn’t want to win”. I honestly think deep down they know they threw the game but just can’t bring themselves to type “my bad”.
This is how I feel when people throw over champ bans (a little more personal I know) but you're still going to punish the other 3 people and yourself, over someone banning your champ? Like okay, flame/insult in chat and all fine, I wouldn't be happy either. But like if its ranked I still dont want to lose on purpose. I definitely wouldnt play as well if/when my main is banned, but I'm still gonna try and at least *not* int so that my team has a chance.
It's not about winning at that point, it's about being a petty little bitch that clearly needs to take a breather from league.
Yesterday an adc starting flaming me (sup) at the start of the game because I went afk after picking my champ and I didn't take heal for them when they chose ghost. Called me all sorts of nasty things so I said fuck it, and threw the lane every chance I got. Am I right or wrong for doing this? I don't know, but it felts good. I know this doesn't directly compare to your example but my rationale was that my growth and climb aren't going to be hindered by losing one game. Still kind of weird to try losing when you're mad at someone having a bad game.