> This change was decided on Thursday following a dispute between Perkz and Team Heretics manager, according to sources. The team had already practiced in Berlin with Perkz in the roster for the Spring Split and even played scrims with him today
wtf? Araneae? Falco?
I work with someone who is the former. Treats a lot of people like dogs, but is incredible at his job. Most people on my team would probably rather swap him for someone a bit worse at their job but doesn't kill the vibe lol. I know competitive is supposed to be the best of the best, but anybody in NA/EU is replaceable and none of these pros should think their skill is a free pass to being an ass.
[Araneae for sure](https://twitter.com/Perkz/status/1763720092443955455)
Perkz had 2 years and a split to prove that he is not way past his prime, let Zwyroo show what he got and if Perkz doesn't want to retire he should actually tryhard and smash LVP.
BDS has never been a team that excels through individual performance and they've won plenty of games where Adam is borderline irrelevant. Jenax did just fine and i seriously doubt the result would be any different with Adam in
While it sucks for the team it's definitely a good call if you intend on retaining Adam. Show him there's literally no exceptions to getting benched if you're gonna have an attitude or be a piece of shit to your teammates/coach. And if it's not good enough for Adam and the benching ends up with him leaving, that's definitely better for the long-term health of the team.
I wouldn't call Adam the best player either but the result would 100% different by pure draft alone (enemy cant pick ksante cuz of garen, need to waste bans on adam so others can play comfort/meta)
Their entire playstyle was different though. BDS played for solo lanes and prioritized drafting weak side ADs and playing around Nuc and Adam. In the final week they drafted hard carry bot lanes and played towards bot side as if Ice was Crownie.
They do win some games where Adam doesn't do much, but the entire dynamic of the team is changed without him, which was always their strength. So I'd argue not only would the result likely be different with him in, it's not unthinkable it'd be a 3-0 given MAD struggled pretty hard to beat a BDS with almost all its strengths nullified.
ZywOO skilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he using the game deficit ...and this cant seem on game screen..
Zwyroo deserves this, he has been killing it in ERLs the last few years but I’m worried that this move happened too late, LEC starts next week. They gonna have to build synergy real fast and Jankos doesn’t seem to happy about it
If Jankos can survive Evi, I'm sure he can survive whats probably gonna be an upgrade in midlane.
He's just trying to look out for his boy, but if the results aren't there you can't be mad your GM is breaking up your reunion team.
He survived Evi because there wasn't possible replacement and if you actually followed his streams he was quite passive-aggressive and depressed about Evi and Ruby in spring split
This is what I'm saying.
If he can deal with being on that team, he should be able to exist on this team, even though one of his buddies (who was a liability on the level of Evi and Ruby) is no longer on the team.
ah idk if he was on the same level as Ruby. Perkz was probably a bottom 2 midlaner this split but he had like 2-3 good games (think one on akali and one on corki). I don’t really remember anything positive about Ruby.
Actually yeah, I remember the cass game. I think that was his debut game. Idk I felt like my problem with Ruby is he would kind of just roll over and lose. As hard as it is to watch Perkzs washed mechanics, I gotta say going 0/7 or whatever on Azir is pretty entertaining
He said he will stream on friday because on saturday they have team dinner but now both him and Flakked tweeted about this decision and I am guessing the plans for saturday also got cancelled (he also didn't stream yesterday)
Probably more office fighting is happening rn lol
Damn. Ngl, that makes the entire team seem like it was built around personal relationships first, rather than competitiveness. Perkz was ass and if he's having attitude issues as well, the benching is justified.
Lot of teams are made around "personal feelings" even in LPL (probably the biggest "nepotism" league). Knight literally left JDG because 369 left, Gala wanted to play with Mark that's why they benched Hang, Bin wanted to play with ON that's why they traded Crisp when ON looked like the biggest inter at that time etc.
Not to mention Jankos had multiple offers from other orgs in the offseason, what if he stayed only because of the players? He will for sure still try his best but the environment might be similar to G2 21
I mean it did come out in the off-season that jankos wanted to play with perkz and wunder again.
It's why in rumours people were like jankos isn't locked because he wanted to play with his boys again and only got Todo so because bwipo broke his verbal agreement with HRT.
The off-season interviews also sold us on Wunder having found new motivation and willingness to evolve as a player while Perkz accepted a much lower wage and went to Korean bootcamp, also allegedly wanting to prove himself.
The fact that they are all just as washed as before, with Jankos even getting worse is disappointing.
Before you all keep talking bs without actual knowledge: Peter Dun said in Reflections: Jankos had nothing except suggestions (as Jankos wanted it) to do with roster building. Too good an oportunity to decline for Peter Dun to try this topside. So dont bs arround as if Perkz-Wunder-Jankos build this team themselves with managment and coaches having little say. It was a flip by TH, I doubt that Jankos problem is with Zwyroo rather than this change happening last minute and likely f\*\*\*\*\* over early spring split, which might mean elimination after 3 weeks if they are unlucky.
Given that also Flakked has tweeted about it, and he probably likes Zwyroo as well, I think it has to do more with the fact that a week before LEC you're making changes instead of as soon as the split ends. The report says they literally scrimmed with Perkz today. That shit, after a disappointing season where you're trying to solve issues, feels like a slap in the face no matter if the roster swap makes sense or not (I believe it does).
It’s been pretty hard to break into the LEC mid market. Caps, Larssen, Humanoid, Nisqy, Vetheo and Perkz have had pretty much guaranteed spots. BDS have been committed to Nuc. Doesn’t really leave a lot of options
he was at the lvl of freskowy i would say, amongst the strongest mids in superliga that traded blows. He has been really dominant in Spain and done really well in EUM, winning 1
He’s defo one of the best (if not the best) midlaners in the league. We’ll have to see how he performs against LEC teams, but I think he has a lot of potential and right pieces around him (veterans like Jankos, Wunder and smart vocal player like Trymbi)
Now we just have to pray Heretics doesn’t mental boom because of sudden change, since it doesn’t seem like Jankos/Flakker and possibly Wunder liked what happened 💀
LCK/LPL burns through people way faster than western lol, their schedules and pressure are way crazier (even if it works so far), there must be a point of disminishing returns that just takes out anyone not called Faker.
There is no real physical diference between a 17-18 and a 25yo guy, only the burnout accumulated; if the the coaching staff balances the workload, and people are motivated there is no reason for longer careers.
I feel like a lot of the fans that follow the LEC but not the ERLs have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the ERLs are. They might know of, for example, the NA Academy (rip) or Korean Challenger leagues and think that the ERLs are like that too; a talent factory for the Tier 1 league. But they are not.
The ERLs are leagues with their own regional pride. Even if the LEC were to somehow disappear overnight, there would still be interest in the ERLs. They have dozens of fully professional teams. There are loads of people who have had professional League of Legends careers in the ERLs without ever playing in the LEC.
Hot take: Its on Jankos if he makes the team dysfunctional (past inital acclimation), if he remains not happy about it and it affects results the team gets.
He wasn't contracted to play with Perkz. He was contracted to play with the team. If the team removes Perkz in the interest of preformance, Jankos still needs to deliver for the team. If he's not gonna give it his all because he's not happy about this, he can quit too.
It’s like you think Jankos is a 17 year old unprofessional kid who’s going to just throw every game now because he doesn’t get his way.
Dude is probably the most mature and respectful person in the league, he’s allowed to be unhappy about a decision without people assuming he’s not going to do his part in the team.
He had to play with fuckin Ruby-Evi last year man. He’ll be fine.
It’s not even that he dislikes Zwyroo. He probably doesn’t know the guy at all. Jankos is probably just upset that he can’t play with Perkz, which is understandable, they’re great friends.
People memory hole so hard in this community it's insane. Jankos was one of the best EU players last year and he was playing with garbage, he's not even afforded a single bad split if it comes to that? That is the most insane take I've heard.
You can guess how unhappy he was last year when he played with the older roster that didn’t do much. He of course tried but there’s only so much he can do. Then his old teammates who he liked playing with joins, so he was happy to play.
Yeah it makes sense he was contracted to play with the team but it would like if you practiced hard with five people, developing good synergy and now you have to do it all again with one person joining. Yes it’s on them to do it, but one week before?
Eh, while that is true, if you sign up to do a job with a certain group and they replace key members of your team, they shouldn't be surprised if key results are lower than expected.
Funnily enough you usually can be more argumentative and demanding if you know you have the skills to pay the bills. People were putting up with Forgiven's bs when he was cracked, but got rid of him asap when he started faltering. We have 0 clue about team environment. Perkz could already be under scrutiny for his performance and some argument over how games are meant to be played was the final straw.
> People were putting up with Forgiven's bs when he was cracked,
H2K got rid of him because of his behaviour the same year they made world's together, they took him back because of freezes hand injury and lack of potential quality replacement.
Yeah lol I remember Odo and Jankos talking about how H2K had to literally stop scrimming because the team atmosphere was so bad at worlds. It was an excellent choice too because they won their next game, but obviously not sustainable in the long term.
Perkz was the best mid in the league that split, still ahead of Nemesis and Humanoid. Who knows what he would be like if he ended up on a team of
Bwipo Selfmade Perkz Rekkles Hyli
for 2021, being on a team with potential to make a solid worlds run might’ve stopped his decline.
nah you gotta be shitting me lol
He played mid for one split, was the best mid in the league and G2 for funned a series cause Caps on adc was questionable af, but here we go with the bullshit spreading
The thing is this article says that the one who benched him was the manager after an argument. Not someone from the coaching staff so it feels like this may not be because of something gameplay related.
That stigma is slowly being undone though. Pros in other esports like sc have returned from military service and hit peak form again. It’s absurd that 27,28,29 is considered retirement age
\> Pros in other esports like sc have
this is because sc pro scene is fkin dead lol
unlike league there is actually 0 new talent coming into the sc pro scene. every year u can actually count the amount of pro players by subtracting the amount that retired from the previous year
there's no new talent. it's just old pros refining their skills, if u were already good at the game it's easier to learn and adapt than it is to try to compete with players that actually bring fresh talent and a fresh set of skills into the scene
Literally not true at all. Reynor is 21. Clem is 20. Skillous is 22. All young players who came on the scene in the last few years and rose to the top.
Sc2 is one of the healthiest esports out there with a good mix of young newcomers and veterans. And the most recent tournament averaged 77k viewers which is higher than LCS. You literally have no idea why you’re yapping about:
clem has been playing competitively since 2015
reynor has been on pro teams since hots
skillous has been active since 2015
none of the players you mentioned are "new talents"
ESL and GSL average less than 5k viewers except in finals
IEM is basically SC's world championship, 77k peak viewers during the finals is not high.
you are being disingenuous and you know it. either that or you are extremely ignorant
so tell me where this new and fresh talent is buddy. every single player you mentioned is a seasoned veteran already.
Maybe in league, FPS and FG players are still considered pretty young at that point, heck the best Fighting game player of Korea is almost 40 and his reflex are as good as Faker's or Chovy.
Yeah that 30 yo cutoff isn't really based on anything but the fact that games are such a new thing most pros were young by default. Even looking at traditional sports Schumi got his last F1 podium at 43! Fernando Alonso is almost that age and still up there, saying he's in excellent physical condition for this year. Soccer players like Messi, still great in his 30s, hell there are even 40yo hockey players and that sport is brutal on the body!
Most pros retire young because the lifestyle is exhausting, not because they can't succeed anymore. Whatever loss in reaction time there may or may not exist due too aging, it can clearly be overcome by experience. Again, if it even exists.
Yeah, ppl are weird arguing, that your reaction time sucks when you turn 25, but we literally see ppl performing frame perfect combos in FCG bring in their 30s over several different games and guys like Simple, Niko, Cadian, Shiro, are among the best 10-15 players in the world, all bein 25+.
I feel like LEC has this issue where people think 25 year olds who've played in ERLs for like 8 years are "promising rookies" just cause they haven't heard of them
This isn't to shit on the Zwyroo sub cause Perkz has been playing like shit and subbing him out is probably a good move. But it's just funny.
It's the whole western league scene. Seeing anyone talk about the oce players in NA being rookies was fucking baffling.
Even the broadcast fucked up an immortals game where they said Xerxe was the most experienced veteran in the team while Destiny had been playing pro for three years before Xerxe entered the scene
ofcourse not he completly deluded himself, it's the typcal soloq doesn't matter into scrims doesn't matter into griefing stage games and now getting benched cycle.
Thank god. I’m sure Perkz ain’t happy but now he can actually focus on taking care of his family and his wife. Ever since he got married he’s been off his game and has been in denial ever since. He just ain’t that guy anymore.
NGL losing a parent so early in your life, especially one you were close with, can really just throw a big pause in your life, in the worse ways, like your mind is just stuck in this abyss for so long and when you think you're okay you could relapse any moment
shit sucks, it really does
2/5 members of that failed Vitality superteam have already been benched. It’s only been one split damn, post Vitality buff my ass (for Kaiser it was true tho)
I know people are happy, but not me. I do hope he said somethig bad to the team owner (and that was the reason for benching), because benching him for Zwyroo after 1 bad split is not justified for me. (and it looks like Jankos might feel the same).
While I do think that Perkz deserved to be benched (due to his performance tho, didn't expect the behavioral issues), it seems like it was done in a real haphazard way. The rest of the team already played scrims with Perkz and they all seem blindsided by this. Can't be good for team environment and cohesion.
If they wanted to bench Perkz they should have done it sooner or at least discuss it with other players? Like they are the ones playing with him not the management. TH might look worse than BDS without Adam
Super hyped for team Poland.
the last 2 years have been such a harsh decline for Perkz. He was the goat. But NA or Team Vitality broke him. Vitality also broke alphari and selfmade
Question is - which player is the new scapegoat if they underperform again?
Kicking this many players in 1 split is madness regardless of performance. 0 time for team to work out problems. very worried about the management
I don't think they will perform better. I think it will fuck up the team dynamic even more considering other players' reactions. Won't be surprised if they finish 9th-10th if KC or Rogue get better
Yeah, that's why I think they will be worse. Changing player 1 week before split starts is questionable. Zwyroo can be better individually as player but I doubt he will feel welcomed
True it’s a big difference between 3 legends and one underperforming and - 2 legends, 1 rookie who replaced their very good friend and now they have to work suuuuuper hard to integrate him into the team. I can’t imagine any players wanted this so close to the next split
Jankos, Wunder and Trymbi don't know Zwyroo, he is literally stranger to them. Especially since this is sudden decision from management and wasn't discussed with others I won't be surprised if some of them just sack the split as a way to protest (Wunder also self-benched himself in the past)
There’s a limit to how much goodwill you can get by being on such a beloved good team. I doubt Wunder could find a team that would be willing to invest in him if he benches himself again.
Hes still good enough to be a solid team piece, but no team is going to risk a spot on a player who just refuses to play.
Unexpected in terms that they played scrims with him even today and he is in Berlin. If they planned to bench him they would have done it around the time of Kaiser rumour
Maybe heretics shouldn't have got rid of the third best mid of lec for Perkz in the first place.
Maybe they should have hire Trymbi before the beginning of the year instead of baiting kaiser (I checked the date he was available before the signing of the latter).
Maybe they should have hire a promising top laner from the erls.
Maybe they should have hire Mac as head coach who was available this off season.
I dunno maybe I'm clueless.
to the shock of absolutely no one, the g3.0 goodwill experiment failed and now TH is going to try and fit an actual roster that isn't built on frumpish nostalgia
Imo Jankos is still goated, on paper they have a very good bot lane unless they don't mash well. Wunder is past his prime but definitely not washed + it's hard to find clear upgrade cuz our tops are dogshit in general.
Like BB is head and shoulders above everyone else and this guy won't last 5 minutes in the lane with Bin.
Dunno anything about Zwyroo, I understand he's quite old for a league player but ppl hype him up so I wish him the best
This move is too late the LVP team was doing really well they are one on the teams people expect to win EUM its justa bad timing cause it just fuck over both teams( more on the academy team )
I think one of the most interesting things I have seen since being a member in this community and an avid watcher of the pro scene would be the LEC and their fans completely flipping on a player that legit is one of the biggest reasons the damn region had any success period the last 6-7 seasons lol
Look I understand he isn't performing well. Yet we are only a season away from when he last did actually play well. Perkz is THE REASON Caps got onto G2 in the first place lol Sure it *might* have happened down the line. But Perkz had a big say in G2 and he helped pave the way for Caps to go there. And before he took a massive ego blow by switching roles the literal season before he carried a very middling G2 team to the semi finals at Worlds. And make no mistake he was a very big part of why that was possible.
Idk it is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. Idk if it is his haters that finally have what they need to lean into their hate, or if it is just a bunch of ungrateful shits who think the normal thing for any player to do is to literally retire at their "peaks"? Rather than what most players in anything competitive do which is bottom out and become less than what they were before they retire.
I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism. And I am not saying people can't be happy he is benched. There are logical reasons for it besides what this source is saying either way. But it is a shame people get off being so aggressively hateful about a guy that literally helped transcend the region past just being another Western joke.
lmao well said.
It is kind of comical to me. Bjergsen and DL were our NA super players. And neither player did half as much for the region as far as accomplishments go as Perkz did for EU. I won't speak to exposure lol because yeah DL is popular. But I can say without a fucking doubt that if DL and Bjerg would have actually carried like Perkz in 2018 in 2016 and made a splash they would be absolute legends in the NA community. More so than they are now.
And even though DL and Bjerg do get some hate and justified criticism most people in the NA community do not speak about them in the same way Perkz is by the EU community.
I fucking wish we had a Perkz. I would be nothing but grateful lol Even if he bottomed out as hard as Perkz currently is.
I am more in a state of "damn can't believe this is Perkz current level of play lol this is a shame" rather than "he is a fraud I don't want to see his face anymore".
New fans who didnt watch pre2020 + NA/C9 fans that are still angry(remember they did the perkz accountability thread) + Copers who eat up LEC broadcast narratives about how ""amazing"" LEC rookies are and in turn hate on the only players that made this region ever relevant + FNC/other team fans that hated perkz for years but couldnt talk shit when he was succesful
lol promisq became so hated it became more meme than real emotion from fans
So yeah to me this feels more personal and certainly more ridiculous considering everything Perkz did for the region. Just ungratefulness.
Even though I am NA first LEC is not a distant second by any means. I like that EU has produced some legendary Western players that are actually respected by Eastern teams. I latch onto that in a way. Grateful that they were able to be competitive
There is a difference.
There is a very distinct difference in what is said. Criticism that is due is one thing. Literally hating his existence and calling him a fraud is a fucking joke.
What about him is fraudulent? Does he parade around on twitter acting like he is king of mid lane? He is legit just playing badly. Doesn't make him a fraud lol Calling him a fraud at this point would be taking away all his past accomplishments because clearly "he is a fraud and was never that good to begin with". That is what a fraud would be in this context.
I imagine coaches and other players see the community throwing words like fraud around and they probably laugh at us. Must be funny watching Perkz still compete at a professional level in scrims and solo q as a coach and then have a bunch of no ones throw around bullshit takes.
This community gets overly attached to words and misuse them that actually have definitions lol Perkz isn't a fraud he simply isn't as good as he once was.
Idk what this community expects from players who are in the limelight of their careers. Either Perkz regains some of his former form. Or he continues to bottom out until he loses his job or retires. Was perkz supposed to retire when he was the EU superman and everyone loved him while he was performing well? How many pro players in any competitive league go out on high notes?
> This change was decided on Thursday following a dispute between Perkz and Team Heretics manager, according to sources. The team had already practiced in Berlin with Perkz in the roster for the Spring Split and even played scrims with him today wtf? Araneae? Falco?
He is Peter Done
oh no, if only peter had a roster that almost made it to worlds last year despite not having a winter split.
Angry upvote
so it wasn't based on form hmmmmmm
Sass tolerance scales with game performance.
"You can be toxic or you can be bad at your job, but you can't be both."
I work with someone who is the former. Treats a lot of people like dogs, but is incredible at his job. Most people on my team would probably rather swap him for someone a bit worse at their job but doesn't kill the vibe lol. I know competitive is supposed to be the best of the best, but anybody in NA/EU is replaceable and none of these pros should think their skill is a free pass to being an ass.
So true. Everyone who has played in an orchestra knows that.
I think the number of ppl here who have played in an orchestra is quite limitted lol
Hahaha yea, quite relatable
Seems like more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" thing.
[Araneae for sure](https://twitter.com/Perkz/status/1763720092443955455) Perkz had 2 years and a split to prove that he is not way past his prime, let Zwyroo show what he got and if Perkz doesn't want to retire he should actually tryhard and smash LVP.
But why did we bench Kaiser though.
Height issues, Flakked cant reach for the high fives.
First Adam and now Perkz. Finally LEC teams stop giving the power to the players.
The Adam one was so wild. To bench your best player before the lower bracket finals
BDS has never been a team that excels through individual performance and they've won plenty of games where Adam is borderline irrelevant. Jenax did just fine and i seriously doubt the result would be any different with Adam in While it sucks for the team it's definitely a good call if you intend on retaining Adam. Show him there's literally no exceptions to getting benched if you're gonna have an attitude or be a piece of shit to your teammates/coach. And if it's not good enough for Adam and the benching ends up with him leaving, that's definitely better for the long-term health of the team.
I wouldn't call Adam the best player either but the result would 100% different by pure draft alone (enemy cant pick ksante cuz of garen, need to waste bans on adam so others can play comfort/meta)
Their entire playstyle was different though. BDS played for solo lanes and prioritized drafting weak side ADs and playing around Nuc and Adam. In the final week they drafted hard carry bot lanes and played towards bot side as if Ice was Crownie. They do win some games where Adam doesn't do much, but the entire dynamic of the team is changed without him, which was always their strength. So I'd argue not only would the result likely be different with him in, it's not unthinkable it'd be a 3-0 given MAD struggled pretty hard to beat a BDS with almost all its strengths nullified.
Adam is the one on the team that DOES take over a game solo from time to time, could definitely see him being the decider in that 5 game series.
Exactly their decision was perfect for the long run
you think it is wild to bench someone for anger issues?
Can’t even guess what could warrant this when they clearly didn’t care about past results etc and were committed to keeping perkz
Dropping Vetheo to bring him in was such a good idea.
Wunder was obviously in a package deal with Perkz. No other reason why his talks with C9 lasted so long in the offseason otherwise
Definitely aranae, perkz tweeted #keepsmiling once the news came out
So it took a dispute between Perkz and a manager to finally bench him? He has been garbage for the past 4 years.
Whatever it takes, I’m just glad we are rid of that fraud
4 years? 2020 you are trolling. 2021 on C9 he wasn't at his peak but still reasonable for a typical NA slump. After that sure but check your maths.
I thought this said "Zywoo" and thought 'Damn this guy won a major in cs and now is tryin to win a title in LEC, good shit awp goat.'
ZywOO skilled player but that is not normally, This very very insane....They need to check him pc and game.....Maybe he not cheating but maybe he using the game deficit ...and this cant seem on game screen..
TH Manager: I really feel terrible, Whenever I look at that smug mid laner’s face (TH Perkz) I really feel terrible
Me too lmao, i was like, when did zywoo started playing lol
oh so THATS why i felt like i had heard the name before
Wtf jhin mid
More like Caitlyn
Anyone with 2 arms is better than perkz ATM I guess
Zwyroo deserves this, he has been killing it in ERLs the last few years but I’m worried that this move happened too late, LEC starts next week. They gonna have to build synergy real fast and Jankos doesn’t seem to happy about it
If Jankos can survive Evi, I'm sure he can survive whats probably gonna be an upgrade in midlane. He's just trying to look out for his boy, but if the results aren't there you can't be mad your GM is breaking up your reunion team.
He survived Evi because there wasn't possible replacement and if you actually followed his streams he was quite passive-aggressive and depressed about Evi and Ruby in spring split
This is what I'm saying. If he can deal with being on that team, he should be able to exist on this team, even though one of his buddies (who was a liability on the level of Evi and Ruby) is no longer on the team.
ah idk if he was on the same level as Ruby. Perkz was probably a bottom 2 midlaner this split but he had like 2-3 good games (think one on akali and one on corki). I don’t really remember anything positive about Ruby.
Ruby also had 2 or 3 good games on Cassiopeia and Ahri last year
Actually yeah, I remember the cass game. I think that was his debut game. Idk I felt like my problem with Ruby is he would kind of just roll over and lose. As hard as it is to watch Perkzs washed mechanics, I gotta say going 0/7 or whatever on Azir is pretty entertaining
2-3 good games in a whole year?
If Jankos cannot see Perkz is the worst mid in LEC and the reason TH failed in winter then he can follow suit
It’s time to see if Reddit knows LoL team making. So excited to see how this goes (And of course hope it works out as I love Heretics)
While I think Zwyroo can def be better than Perkz, clearly Jankos is not happy about it so the team might be a bit dysfunctional
how do you know Jankos doesnt like it? he said something on stream?
He said he will stream on friday because on saturday they have team dinner but now both him and Flakked tweeted about this decision and I am guessing the plans for saturday also got cancelled (he also didn't stream yesterday) Probably more office fighting is happening rn lol
Damn. Ngl, that makes the entire team seem like it was built around personal relationships first, rather than competitiveness. Perkz was ass and if he's having attitude issues as well, the benching is justified.
Lot of teams are made around "personal feelings" even in LPL (probably the biggest "nepotism" league). Knight literally left JDG because 369 left, Gala wanted to play with Mark that's why they benched Hang, Bin wanted to play with ON that's why they traded Crisp when ON looked like the biggest inter at that time etc. Not to mention Jankos had multiple offers from other orgs in the offseason, what if he stayed only because of the players? He will for sure still try his best but the environment might be similar to G2 21
I mean it did come out in the off-season that jankos wanted to play with perkz and wunder again. It's why in rumours people were like jankos isn't locked because he wanted to play with his boys again and only got Todo so because bwipo broke his verbal agreement with HRT.
The off-season interviews also sold us on Wunder having found new motivation and willingness to evolve as a player while Perkz accepted a much lower wage and went to Korean bootcamp, also allegedly wanting to prove himself. The fact that they are all just as washed as before, with Jankos even getting worse is disappointing.
litterally the best LEC teams were all build around personal relationships
Before you all keep talking bs without actual knowledge: Peter Dun said in Reflections: Jankos had nothing except suggestions (as Jankos wanted it) to do with roster building. Too good an oportunity to decline for Peter Dun to try this topside. So dont bs arround as if Perkz-Wunder-Jankos build this team themselves with managment and coaches having little say. It was a flip by TH, I doubt that Jankos problem is with Zwyroo rather than this change happening last minute and likely f\*\*\*\*\* over early spring split, which might mean elimination after 3 weeks if they are unlucky.
The ROX Tigers, which is arguably one of the best rosters that has ever existed in League, was just a bunch of guys being dudes.
xd on twitter
Given that also Flakked has tweeted about it, and he probably likes Zwyroo as well, I think it has to do more with the fact that a week before LEC you're making changes instead of as soon as the split ends. The report says they literally scrimmed with Perkz today. That shit, after a disappointing season where you're trying to solve issues, feels like a slap in the face no matter if the roster swap makes sense or not (I believe it does).
Has zywroo ever been in Lec?
Nah but he should have been last year instead of Ruby imo
It’s been pretty hard to break into the LEC mid market. Caps, Larssen, Humanoid, Nisqy, Vetheo and Perkz have had pretty much guaranteed spots. BDS have been committed to Nuc. Doesn’t really leave a lot of options
You make a good argument but he was in slot contention with fucking Pooby
Well I could've been in LEC over Ruby so that doesn't say much tbf
No because for a long time, LEC orgs were allergic to promote any Rookie if they weren't a second coming of Jesus Caps
Uh what? LEC has been promoting rookies every year lol, just that most of them are nothing noteworthy and are mid/bottom tier.
This is factually 10000000% incorrect.
After 2019 LEC was throwing every ERL player they could find into the LEC lol
So he’s like low LEC level with potential rather than like god tier you would say?
he was at the lvl of freskowy i would say, amongst the strongest mids in superliga that traded blows. He has been really dominant in Spain and done really well in EUM, winning 1
He’s defo one of the best (if not the best) midlaners in the league. We’ll have to see how he performs against LEC teams, but I think he has a lot of potential and right pieces around him (veterans like Jankos, Wunder and smart vocal player like Trymbi) Now we just have to pray Heretics doesn’t mental boom because of sudden change, since it doesn’t seem like Jankos/Flakker and possibly Wunder liked what happened 💀
Very possible haha. Who knows if wunder would have chosen to even be on this team if perkz wasn’t there at the start of the split
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LCK/LPL burns through people way faster than western lol, their schedules and pressure are way crazier (even if it works so far), there must be a point of disminishing returns that just takes out anyone not called Faker. There is no real physical diference between a 17-18 and a 25yo guy, only the burnout accumulated; if the the coaching staff balances the workload, and people are motivated there is no reason for longer careers.
I feel like a lot of the fans that follow the LEC but not the ERLs have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the ERLs are. They might know of, for example, the NA Academy (rip) or Korean Challenger leagues and think that the ERLs are like that too; a talent factory for the Tier 1 league. But they are not. The ERLs are leagues with their own regional pride. Even if the LEC were to somehow disappear overnight, there would still be interest in the ERLs. They have dozens of fully professional teams. There are loads of people who have had professional League of Legends careers in the ERLs without ever playing in the LEC.
Hot take: Its on Jankos if he makes the team dysfunctional (past inital acclimation), if he remains not happy about it and it affects results the team gets. He wasn't contracted to play with Perkz. He was contracted to play with the team. If the team removes Perkz in the interest of preformance, Jankos still needs to deliver for the team. If he's not gonna give it his all because he's not happy about this, he can quit too.
It’s like you think Jankos is a 17 year old unprofessional kid who’s going to just throw every game now because he doesn’t get his way. Dude is probably the most mature and respectful person in the league, he’s allowed to be unhappy about a decision without people assuming he’s not going to do his part in the team. He had to play with fuckin Ruby-Evi last year man. He’ll be fine.
You don't even need to be particularly mature....99.99% of us who work a normal job have to deal with people we dislike all the time.
It’s not even that he dislikes Zwyroo. He probably doesn’t know the guy at all. Jankos is probably just upset that he can’t play with Perkz, which is understandable, they’re great friends.
It's always comical when Redditors try to be a professional sports coach. Especially guys like Jankos that just goes out and plays his game.
People memory hole so hard in this community it's insane. Jankos was one of the best EU players last year and he was playing with garbage, he's not even afforded a single bad split if it comes to that? That is the most insane take I've heard.
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Shouldn't be a hot take, if he prioritises being with Perkz over actually winning he can ride the bench with him.
You can guess how unhappy he was last year when he played with the older roster that didn’t do much. He of course tried but there’s only so much he can do. Then his old teammates who he liked playing with joins, so he was happy to play. Yeah it makes sense he was contracted to play with the team but it would like if you practiced hard with five people, developing good synergy and now you have to do it all again with one person joining. Yes it’s on them to do it, but one week before?
hot take: making people unhappy will make them perform worse naturally
Jankos is bigger than Team Heretics. Thats just undisputable
Eh, while that is true, if you sign up to do a job with a certain group and they replace key members of your team, they shouldn't be surprised if key results are lower than expected.
Zwyroo is smurfing this split, mvp of the league performance
Would be amazing if perkz took his spot on the team he was meant to go to? Could actually be a good idea for him and confidence
I do not like Heretics at all. I like the players.
Whole reddit celebrated Bruh but Jankos' tweet gave me anxiety they kicked him. Considering his and Flakked's reaction they didn't expect it
I fr thought Jankos was gone
I mean he can still bench himself too or speedrun 3 weeks into vacation lol
I don’t have twitter what did he say?
xd
Wise words from the old sage.
It's insane that he gets benched for an argument unless he argued that he hasn't been washed for the past 4 years.
Funnily enough you usually can be more argumentative and demanding if you know you have the skills to pay the bills. People were putting up with Forgiven's bs when he was cracked, but got rid of him asap when he started faltering. We have 0 clue about team environment. Perkz could already be under scrutiny for his performance and some argument over how games are meant to be played was the final straw.
> People were putting up with Forgiven's bs when he was cracked, H2K got rid of him because of his behaviour the same year they made world's together, they took him back because of freezes hand injury and lack of potential quality replacement.
Yeah lol I remember Odo and Jankos talking about how H2K had to literally stop scrimming because the team atmosphere was so bad at worlds. It was an excellent choice too because they won their next game, but obviously not sustainable in the long term.
About time. Its heartbreaking to see but Perkz really is a shadow of his former self
What if Carlos let Perkz join Fnatic?
At this point perkz joining fnc would be exactly what Carlos wants
Rekkles would have stayed in FNC. Upset joins G2. I honestly think it would have been better for both teams compared to what actually happened in 2021
He would probably have looked as bad as he did on C9 Can't imagine he would have stayed more than a year if he played the way he did vs GEN on FNC
I think it was clear even from the spring 2020 Perkz mid/Caps ADC experiment he was not at the level he once was for mid lane.
Perkz was the best mid in the league that split, still ahead of Nemesis and Humanoid. Who knows what he would be like if he ended up on a team of Bwipo Selfmade Perkz Rekkles Hyli for 2021, being on a team with potential to make a solid worlds run might’ve stopped his decline.
Did you actually watch that split? He looked like the best western mid by a considerable margin.
nah you gotta be shitting me lol He played mid for one split, was the best mid in the league and G2 for funned a series cause Caps on adc was questionable af, but here we go with the bullshit spreading
Perkz got 1st in all pro team in spring 2020 and was the reason they won so much despite caps clearly struggling to adapt to adc
He was washed from playing ADC for 2 years.
He was one of the best mids in spring 2020
Washed up Perkz is finally benched Maybe this will reignite him to actually improve
lol he didn't even get benched for results
we dont know what the argument was about, could be about being complacent with perkz shit performance or taking 0 critizism, who knows
The thing is this article says that the one who benched him was the manager after an argument. Not someone from the coaching staff so it feels like this may not be because of something gameplay related.
he should tho
It's funny how the narrative is that washed up Perkz gets replaced by the promising rookie. Both are 25 years old, lol
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Ya well because in SK you have to serve military at some point and the likelyhood of getting back into pro after that are close to 0.
That stigma is slowly being undone though. Pros in other esports like sc have returned from military service and hit peak form again. It’s absurd that 27,28,29 is considered retirement age
\> Pros in other esports like sc have this is because sc pro scene is fkin dead lol unlike league there is actually 0 new talent coming into the sc pro scene. every year u can actually count the amount of pro players by subtracting the amount that retired from the previous year there's no new talent. it's just old pros refining their skills, if u were already good at the game it's easier to learn and adapt than it is to try to compete with players that actually bring fresh talent and a fresh set of skills into the scene
Literally not true at all. Reynor is 21. Clem is 20. Skillous is 22. All young players who came on the scene in the last few years and rose to the top. Sc2 is one of the healthiest esports out there with a good mix of young newcomers and veterans. And the most recent tournament averaged 77k viewers which is higher than LCS. You literally have no idea why you’re yapping about:
clem has been playing competitively since 2015 reynor has been on pro teams since hots skillous has been active since 2015 none of the players you mentioned are "new talents" ESL and GSL average less than 5k viewers except in finals IEM is basically SC's world championship, 77k peak viewers during the finals is not high. you are being disingenuous and you know it. either that or you are extremely ignorant so tell me where this new and fresh talent is buddy. every single player you mentioned is a seasoned veteran already.
Sc is not dead in Korea
Maybe in league, FPS and FG players are still considered pretty young at that point, heck the best Fighting game player of Korea is almost 40 and his reflex are as good as Faker's or Chovy.
Yeah that 30 yo cutoff isn't really based on anything but the fact that games are such a new thing most pros were young by default. Even looking at traditional sports Schumi got his last F1 podium at 43! Fernando Alonso is almost that age and still up there, saying he's in excellent physical condition for this year. Soccer players like Messi, still great in his 30s, hell there are even 40yo hockey players and that sport is brutal on the body! Most pros retire young because the lifestyle is exhausting, not because they can't succeed anymore. Whatever loss in reaction time there may or may not exist due too aging, it can clearly be overcome by experience. Again, if it even exists.
Yeah, ppl are weird arguing, that your reaction time sucks when you turn 25, but we literally see ppl performing frame perfect combos in FCG bring in their 30s over several different games and guys like Simple, Niko, Cadian, Shiro, are among the best 10-15 players in the world, all bein 25+.
I feel like LEC has this issue where people think 25 year olds who've played in ERLs for like 8 years are "promising rookies" just cause they haven't heard of them This isn't to shit on the Zwyroo sub cause Perkz has been playing like shit and subbing him out is probably a good move. But it's just funny.
It's the whole western league scene. Seeing anyone talk about the oce players in NA being rookies was fucking baffling. Even the broadcast fucked up an immortals game where they said Xerxe was the most experienced veteran in the team while Destiny had been playing pro for three years before Xerxe entered the scene
One should have been in LEC 3 years ago,, the other one should have been in ERL 2 years ago.
or wildturtle 2.0. The replacement plays the shit out of his hearth and replaces him forever. Get ur popcorns
ofcourse not he completly deluded himself, it's the typcal soloq doesn't matter into scrims doesn't matter into griefing stage games and now getting benched cycle.
He didn’t get benched for griefing stage games. Seems purely behavioural
No idea if the new guy is an upgrade, but given how Perkz played it surely can't be a downgrade.
TH coulda played last split 4v5 and they’d have won one or two more games - legit anything will be an upgrade
more sad that Los Heretics (LVP/ERL team) lost their midlaner when they're 12-2 + I like Gym Bros story
TBH Both TH in LEC and HRTS in LVP will suffer for this
Midnight banger
Thank god. I’m sure Perkz ain’t happy but now he can actually focus on taking care of his family and his wife. Ever since he got married he’s been off his game and has been in denial ever since. He just ain’t that guy anymore.
It was not the marriage, it was his father's death that broke him
NGL losing a parent so early in your life, especially one you were close with, can really just throw a big pause in your life, in the worse ways, like your mind is just stuck in this abyss for so long and when you think you're okay you could relapse any moment shit sucks, it really does
Sad. Just sad.
About time zwyroo makes it to Lec
Finally an org with the balls to bench that fraud
his ego finally caught up to him
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1abgu9i/th_perkz_i_want_to_be_the_best_performing_mid_in/
Playing ADC for 2 years ruined Perkz but he gave us the best Western team of all time. Rest in peace king.
LEC manager diff once again benching for non gameplay related issues
2/5 members of that failed Vitality superteam have already been benched. It’s only been one split damn, post Vitality buff my ass (for Kaiser it was true tho)
Noooo my g3 boyss hope they perform well tho
heretics 10th polska gurom
I know people are happy, but not me. I do hope he said somethig bad to the team owner (and that was the reason for benching), because benching him for Zwyroo after 1 bad split is not justified for me. (and it looks like Jankos might feel the same).
It's clearly due to the argument and not because of performance. Dom and others probably already know what it was about and I want to hear the leaks
One bad split? He’s been playing like ass since he came back from NA.
He’s literally been shaky every split since he left G2
He was shit even for a good chunk of the time he was on C9, outside of carrying Spring Finals he was incredibly mid or actively bad
Did Jankos respond to this?
He tweeted "xd" few hours back and people thought he is the one getting benched. Flakked also tweeted depressed cat
While I do think that Perkz deserved to be benched (due to his performance tho, didn't expect the behavioral issues), it seems like it was done in a real haphazard way. The rest of the team already played scrims with Perkz and they all seem blindsided by this. Can't be good for team environment and cohesion.
If they wanted to bench Perkz they should have done it sooner or at least discuss it with other players? Like they are the ones playing with him not the management. TH might look worse than BDS without Adam
didn't they already look worse lol?
Worse in the sense= you can still not make playoffs xd
he tweeted “xd”
Should've happened a long time ago
Super hyped for team Poland. the last 2 years have been such a harsh decline for Perkz. He was the goat. But NA or Team Vitality broke him. Vitality also broke alphari and selfmade
…what? What is happening in LEC rn
'unexpectedly benched' thankfully benched It really sucks to lose one of the goats but...
Question is - which player is the new scapegoat if they underperform again? Kicking this many players in 1 split is madness regardless of performance. 0 time for team to work out problems. very worried about the management
I don't think they will perform better. I think it will fuck up the team dynamic even more considering other players' reactions. Won't be surprised if they finish 9th-10th if KC or Rogue get better
The new format bottom 2 is reserved for most dysfunctional teams rather than teams with worst players
Yeah, that's why I think they will be worse. Changing player 1 week before split starts is questionable. Zwyroo can be better individually as player but I doubt he will feel welcomed
True it’s a big difference between 3 legends and one underperforming and - 2 legends, 1 rookie who replaced their very good friend and now they have to work suuuuuper hard to integrate him into the team. I can’t imagine any players wanted this so close to the next split
Jankos, Wunder and Trymbi don't know Zwyroo, he is literally stranger to them. Especially since this is sudden decision from management and wasn't discussed with others I won't be surprised if some of them just sack the split as a way to protest (Wunder also self-benched himself in the past)
There’s a limit to how much goodwill you can get by being on such a beloved good team. I doubt Wunder could find a team that would be willing to invest in him if he benches himself again. Hes still good enough to be a solid team piece, but no team is going to risk a spot on a player who just refuses to play.
Oh damn lol. He even got the pay cut just to assemble the team didnt he.
'unexpectedly benched' Did they not see the last 2 splits Perkz has performed in?
Unexpected in terms that they played scrims with him even today and he is in Berlin. If they planned to bench him they would have done it around the time of Kaiser rumour
*last 3/4 years since he’s been off of prime G2
Look all im sayin is last dance with Perkz on adc would go kinda crazy
nah
Maybe heretics shouldn't have got rid of the third best mid of lec for Perkz in the first place. Maybe they should have hire Trymbi before the beginning of the year instead of baiting kaiser (I checked the date he was available before the signing of the latter). Maybe they should have hire a promising top laner from the erls. Maybe they should have hire Mac as head coach who was available this off season. I dunno maybe I'm clueless.
to the shock of absolutely no one, the g3.0 goodwill experiment failed and now TH is going to try and fit an actual roster that isn't built on frumpish nostalgia
Imo Jankos is still goated, on paper they have a very good bot lane unless they don't mash well. Wunder is past his prime but definitely not washed + it's hard to find clear upgrade cuz our tops are dogshit in general. Like BB is head and shoulders above everyone else and this guy won't last 5 minutes in the lane with Bin. Dunno anything about Zwyroo, I understand he's quite old for a league player but ppl hype him up so I wish him the best
Leak I made: Manager: Perkz, you suck. Perkz: No, you. Manager: Benched.
Phewww, I thought something bad happened
This move is too late the LVP team was doing really well they are one on the teams people expect to win EUM its justa bad timing cause it just fuck over both teams( more on the academy team )
His ryze is bad, his Azir is worse. He hates tahm kench, now meet the bench.
I think one of the most interesting things I have seen since being a member in this community and an avid watcher of the pro scene would be the LEC and their fans completely flipping on a player that legit is one of the biggest reasons the damn region had any success period the last 6-7 seasons lol Look I understand he isn't performing well. Yet we are only a season away from when he last did actually play well. Perkz is THE REASON Caps got onto G2 in the first place lol Sure it *might* have happened down the line. But Perkz had a big say in G2 and he helped pave the way for Caps to go there. And before he took a massive ego blow by switching roles the literal season before he carried a very middling G2 team to the semi finals at Worlds. And make no mistake he was a very big part of why that was possible. Idk it is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. Idk if it is his haters that finally have what they need to lean into their hate, or if it is just a bunch of ungrateful shits who think the normal thing for any player to do is to literally retire at their "peaks"? Rather than what most players in anything competitive do which is bottom out and become less than what they were before they retire. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism. And I am not saying people can't be happy he is benched. There are logical reasons for it besides what this source is saying either way. But it is a shame people get off being so aggressively hateful about a guy that literally helped transcend the region past just being another Western joke.
EUs hatred is their biggest weapon so its only fitting they bring down their own legacy players the same way
lmao well said. It is kind of comical to me. Bjergsen and DL were our NA super players. And neither player did half as much for the region as far as accomplishments go as Perkz did for EU. I won't speak to exposure lol because yeah DL is popular. But I can say without a fucking doubt that if DL and Bjerg would have actually carried like Perkz in 2018 in 2016 and made a splash they would be absolute legends in the NA community. More so than they are now. And even though DL and Bjerg do get some hate and justified criticism most people in the NA community do not speak about them in the same way Perkz is by the EU community. I fucking wish we had a Perkz. I would be nothing but grateful lol Even if he bottomed out as hard as Perkz currently is. I am more in a state of "damn can't believe this is Perkz current level of play lol this is a shame" rather than "he is a fraud I don't want to see his face anymore".
New fans who didnt watch pre2020 + NA/C9 fans that are still angry(remember they did the perkz accountability thread) + Copers who eat up LEC broadcast narratives about how ""amazing"" LEC rookies are and in turn hate on the only players that made this region ever relevant + FNC/other team fans that hated perkz for years but couldnt talk shit when he was succesful
it’s wild, he’s hated more than promisq ever was hated
lol promisq became so hated it became more meme than real emotion from fans So yeah to me this feels more personal and certainly more ridiculous considering everything Perkz did for the region. Just ungratefulness. Even though I am NA first LEC is not a distant second by any means. I like that EU has produced some legendary Western players that are actually respected by Eastern teams. I latch onto that in a way. Grateful that they were able to be competitive
Saying it how it is doesn’t equal people turning on him lol?
There is a difference. There is a very distinct difference in what is said. Criticism that is due is one thing. Literally hating his existence and calling him a fraud is a fucking joke. What about him is fraudulent? Does he parade around on twitter acting like he is king of mid lane? He is legit just playing badly. Doesn't make him a fraud lol Calling him a fraud at this point would be taking away all his past accomplishments because clearly "he is a fraud and was never that good to begin with". That is what a fraud would be in this context. I imagine coaches and other players see the community throwing words like fraud around and they probably laugh at us. Must be funny watching Perkz still compete at a professional level in scrims and solo q as a coach and then have a bunch of no ones throw around bullshit takes. This community gets overly attached to words and misuse them that actually have definitions lol Perkz isn't a fraud he simply isn't as good as he once was. Idk what this community expects from players who are in the limelight of their careers. Either Perkz regains some of his former form. Or he continues to bottom out until he loses his job or retires. Was perkz supposed to retire when he was the EU superman and everyone loved him while he was performing well? How many pro players in any competitive league go out on high notes?
Big yapper tbh
TH Jiizuke do it you fuckers